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Official Feedback Thread: Other Balance Changes

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  • yperkeimenosyperkeimenos Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    wixxgs1cht wrote: »
    Storm Spell still does ~35-40% of a SS/Th dmg. About the same for SS/Ren. Not sure where the nerf is.

    (Edit: Tests done in T2s with ~7.5k power, pVorp)

    That's because it's not yet implemented on preview. It will be in the near future.
    It's BUGS bunny i tell you.
  • dante126pldante126pl Banned Users Posts: 257 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    hfgtfsdfs wrote: »
    Nerf Stormspell damage
    Buff Focused Wizardy to make up for the stormspell nerf
    Buff shard damage on TABB or when flagged for PvP
    Buff Chilling presence damage

    Nerf TRs.
    Nerf HRs.

    make my class 1 shot other classes plx qqQQqQQ
  • ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Can you please stop suggesting such HAMSTER? That heal is extremely important in PvP.

    Burning someone down before they can do anything is extremely important in PvP. If you're hoping for a 1 in 3 chance to proc Chaotic Growth to save your bacon in PvP, you're doing something wrong. And when you're under the effects of healing suppression, that heals ain't going to save you anyway. Once you start trading healing for damage, you're just delaying the inevitable.

    I'd rather bring full on DPS to the fight, and to the rest of the group. I can imagine any other group in PvP would rather someone bring a DPS buff than a small heal. If you want to bring the heals to PvP, trying a DC or a SW.

    Again, the choice is what I said it is. Damage or Control. That's the two elements of a CW. Don't go trying to bake in some tacked on heal to the capstone. Offense is what the Renegade path needs.
    "Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
    i7TZDZK.gif?1
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Also, what are you guys planning on doing with intimidation?
    I mean seriously:
    intimidation_zps940dfca0.jpg

    This is with only 10.5k power unbuffed. most high end gwf i know run with at least 15k power unbuffed. slightly reducing it 15% is a joke, right?
    It's not 15% reduction, it's 30% reduction. And what's this nonsense about 15k power unbuffed? What about other stats? 20k HP, 2k def? Good luck with that, lol.

    And why are you surprised that intimidation does most damage from sentinel powers? GWF sentinel has the lowest at-will, daily and encounter damage from all the classes and builds, with worse survivability than GF. In comparison, destroyer GWF does ~3x more damage and isn't that far beyond survivability-wise due to much higher determination gain.

    Before intimidation patch sentinel was completely and utterly useless in both PvP and PvE. Couldn't deal damage, couldn't keep threat, control, only run around like an idiot. No-one ever knew such a spec existed and when someone talked about GWF they only talked about destroyer GWF. Just look through the forums. Now intimidation receives 30% damage reduction and you still cry? Shame on you. Shame. On. YOU.
  • magiquepursemagiquepurse Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    ironzerg79 wrote: »
    Burning someone down before they can do anything is extremely important in PvP. If you're hoping for a 1 in 3 chance to proc Chaotic Growth to save your bacon in PvP, you're doing something wrong. And when you're under the effects of healing suppression, that heals ain't going to save you anyway. Once you start trading healing for damage, you're just delaying the inevitable.

    I'd rather bring full on DPS to the fight, and to the rest of the group. I can imagine any other group in PvP would rather someone bring a DPS buff than a small heal. If you want to bring the heals to PvP, trying a DC or a SW.

    Again, the choice is what I said it is. Damage or Control. That's the two elements of a CW. Don't go trying to bake in some tacked on heal to the capstone. Offense is what the Renegade path needs.

    You don't understand, do you?

    I already sport a tank CW at 45K HP, 2000 Life Steal and 1300 regen, with additional Incoming Healing and Life Steal bonuses, that is before I even pot up.

    It's not enough, Shield or not.

    I'll take whatever else survivability I can get.
  • ortzhyortzhy Member Posts: 1,103 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    snip

    This is with only 10.5k power unbuffed. most high end gwf i know run with at least 15k power unbuffed. slightly reducing it 15% is a joke, right?

    That is PvE... GWF there is the last one to get a nerf in dmg, but your point in valid only: 15k power?!!! why is that possible?!! And with each expansion we go higher and higher without any reason.
  • inthefade462inthefade462 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    zvieris wrote: »
    It's not 15% reduction, it's 30% reduction. And what's this nonsense about 15k power unbuffed? What about other stats? 20k HP, 2k def? Good luck with that, lol.

    And why are you surprised that intimidation does most damage from sentinel powers? GWF sentinel has the lowest at-will, daily and encounter damage from all the classes and builds, with worse survivability than GF. In comparison, destroyer GWF does ~3x more damage and isn't that far beyond survivability-wise due to much higher determination gain.

    Before intimidation patch sentinel was completely and utterly useless in both PvP and PvE. Couldn't deal damage, couldn't keep threat, control, only run around like an idiot. No-one ever knew such a spec existed and when someone talked about GWF they only talked about destroyer GWF. Just look through the forums. Now intimidation receives 30% damage reduction and you still cry? Shame on you. Shame. On. YOU.

    It isn't that intimidation does the most dmg of any sentinel power. Intimidation does the most damage of any feat tree the GWF has. It does more than Destroyer. It does more than this quasi buffed Instigator. It does the same as CW's before their SS nerf, which isn't really a nerf is actually a huge buff but whatev.

    So lets see, as it stands on preview right now:

    You can spec Instigator and be out damaged by a DC
    You can spec Destroyer and nearly be out damaged by a DC
    You can spec Sentinel and out damage everyone, oh and also face tank everything, oh and if you happened to spec IV you can also face roll everyone else in PVP.

    I only mention preview, as DCs can actually do decent dmg there now. Intimidation > all on Live as well, just replace DC in the above example with 12k CW.

    Thats our choices right now. If you think dropping it to 35% power is gonna fix that then lol.. It may tone down GWF a little bit in PVP (only because pvp builds have much less power) but in PVE you should spec stupid cheesy skilless proc based intimidation build cus it destroys everything.
  • readytoredrumreadytoredrum Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Feedback:

    Give Control Wizards more control. Reverse the Orb of Imposition nerf and buff the Glacial Movement feat to further increase their control powers. You have already taken away most of their dot damage.

    Give Control Wizards more survivability to negate their massive DPS nerf in PVP. You can give them more dodges or increase the strides of their teleports
    ───────────
    Red
    Cafè CrêpeControl Wizard
  • readytoredrumreadytoredrum Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    You don't understand, do you?

    I already sport a tank CW at 45K HP, 2000 Life Steal and 1300 regen, with additional Incoming Healing and Life Steal bonuses, that is before I even pot up.

    It's not enough, Shield or not.

    I'll take whatever else survivability I can get.

    I agree with you. CWs need more survivability since Cryptic decided they aren't going to be burst damage anymore
    ───────────
    Red
    Cafè CrêpeControl Wizard
  • izidiusizidius Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 40
    edited October 2014
    So they wasted all those resources, time etc for the last wizard "fix" now taking most of it back? Do these people know what they are doing? It seems not.
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    izidius wrote: »
    So they wasted all those resources, time etc for the last wizard "fix" now taking most of it back? Do these people know what they are doing? It seems not.

    Proly not. Making it require crits when CWs do mostly DoT which depends on EotS or a lucky crit at the start. Less you have EotS proc'd or have 50% crit your CoI won't ever be getting that lucky crit and Icy terrain becomes harmless yet again.
  • zankardzankard Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    *Plays GWF*
    *Opens forums*
    *GWF still weak*
    *moves on*
  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    zankard wrote: »
    *Plays GWF*
    *Opens forums*
    *GWF still weak*
    *moves on*

    GWFs have a new troll build on live server that is wrecking certain classes....
  • zankardzankard Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    GWFs have a new troll build on live server that is wrecking certain classes....

    And what about PVE? I gave up on PVP a while ago, and such things are why.
  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    hfgtfsdfs wrote: »
    I think Mod5 will be the worst time a CW ever had in this game regarding PvP. Every single class can now kill us easy. I just died to a DC in a few seconds.

    Since every other classes has some OP broken feature, why not just give us back broken permafreeze so we stand a chance?

    PVP CWs have always had the short end of the stick until their recent but short OP reign (before Ray of Frost and Assailing were nerfed).

    A lot of this has to do with PVE CWs still being very powerful and the most widely used PVE toons by far.

    I agree with you and readytoredrum has stated, CWs need to have more survivability and/or control to stand a chance against the OP PVP classes
  • pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Everything in module 4 still relies on RNG loot. No challenging content. Nothing that rewards player effort accordingly. In that case, I would advise you to move along for now just as I have

    wish you would move along from the forums as well
  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    pointsman wrote: »
    wish you would move along from the forums as well

    No thank you. I will be here to provide my own feedback/opinions when I feel like it :cool:
  • pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    No thank you. I will be here to provide my own feedback/opinions when I feel like it :cool:

    not sure why, since all you seem to do is badmouth the game
  • pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    And another thing about Chilling Advantage.

    I am just trying to see how it might work in the context of the Master of Flame paragon path.

    If I slot Chilling Presence in order to take advantage of the Chilling Advantage feat, then I have to give up either Critical Conflagration or Swath of Destruction.

    I'm not giving up Swath of Destruction. It is just too good, especially with the Mod 4 buffs that it got. MoFs rely so heavily on Smolder that we have to be able to get the most out of it.

    So that leaves Critical Conflagration.

    If I give up Critical Conflagration, and replace it with Chilling Presence, that means I have to proc Smolder by some other means than by crits. I'm not going to use Fanning the Flame on Spell Mastery, because I want to apply chill by using Conduit of Ice on Spell Mastery. (Plus, you all nerfed Fanning the Flame, for some unknown reason.) So that leaves Scorching Burst. However SB has a target limit of 5. So if I use SB to apply Smolder I'll only be able to apply it to 5 mobs at a time. Still seems like a worse tradeoff than having Smolder apply by crits.

    So basically, as things stand now, if I were to try MoF Renegade (and it sounds like it might be cool to at least give it a look), then I'm going to bypass the Chilling Advantage feat, despite the buff, because I just can't give up either Critical Conflagration or Swath of Destruction.

    I know the devs want MoF to be competitive with Storm Spell, that was the clear intent of the buffs that MoFs got in Mod 4. But if you want MoF Renegade to be competitive with Storm Spell Renegade, then in the context of Chilling Advantage, you have to give us a reason to slot Chilling Presence. And right now there isn't one.

    I like ironzerg's idea of changing Chilling Advantage to just a flat boost to crits (either crit chance or crit severity) for mobs that have chill applied to them, and divorce the feat from the Chilling Presence passive.

    Sorry for the long feedback but I wanted you to see the reasoning behind it.
  • hefisdohefisdo Member Posts: 709 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    • Oppressor: Glacial Movement: This feat now increases the effectiveness of each rank of Orb of Imposition by 4/8/12/16/20%.

    Please change the name of this feat.

    Increasing the power of control powers has nothing to do with Glacial Movement. Crowd Control is NOT only Cold powers.

    Please don't transform my Wizard into a frost queen. I beg you, on my knees.
    (´・ ω ・`)
  • effectensteineffectenstein Member Posts: 1,031 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    It isn't that intimidation does the most dmg of any sentinel power. Intimidation does the most damage of any feat tree the GWF has. It does more than Destroyer. It does more than this quasi buffed Instigator. It does the same as CW's before their SS nerf, which isn't really a nerf is actually a huge buff but whatev.

    So lets see, as it stands on preview right now:

    You can spec Instigator and be out damaged by a DC
    You can spec Destroyer and nearly be out damaged by a DC
    You can spec Sentinel and out damage everyone, oh and also face tank everything, oh and if you happened to spec IV you can also face roll everyone else in PVP.

    I only mention preview, as DCs can actually do decent dmg there now. Intimidation > all on Live as well, just replace DC in the above example with 12k CW.

    Thats our choices right now. If you think dropping it to 35% power is gonna fix that then lol.. It may tone down GWF a little bit in PVP (only because pvp builds have much less power) but in PVE you should spec stupid cheesy skilless proc based intimidation build cus it destroys everything.

    no it doesn't .
    droping to 35% it will really solve that problem, but it would be cool, that when facing more enemies, to deal more damage, and when facing single targed to do less damage.
    i like how other classes give their opinions about GWF and they neverplayed it, just mumbling there, in PVP live servers, gwf with intimidation they are only good in AOE than other classes, GF/cw/sw still have a chance to defeat him 1vs1, HR is a God.
    Instigator right now on lpreview is on a good path, taking in consideration that you gain those stacks by being hit, rather then enter in unstopable and hit people for 20 times, so yeah, it's faster and can be on par with destroyer damage in pve.
    i mean slot wicked strike as main at will,instead of sure strike. and as for PVP i would gladly go instigator as it is in preview.
    as for sentinel?
    just come on guys.. lets assume there are 12k power GWF that had destroyer build and changed it to sentinel build for pve DPS, unsloting Restoring Strike + FLS , for Daring shout and COme and get it, it's like suicide for 13-15 seconds after you launch ur encounters what you gonna do? run around to stay alive?
    restoring strike is a way of surviving
    unstopable recovery as well
    Avalanche of steel too.
    but neah...
    not to say, taking threat in eLOL, you will die fast, very fast.
    so goin with that combo is probably suicide.
    Cagi an Daringshout not always CRITS, and when it doesn't the yello damage isn't that big.
    imo, lowering it to 35% is enough, lowering more it's breaking it.
    because GWF isn't the only class that does burst damage in this game.

    btw: there are 50+ days until mod5, so dont whine at the begining of the preview tests, it's not appropriate, just state the problem, the updates will be on every friday, so have patience.
    so i estimate 7-8 updates , that probably sort out things.
  • kieranmtornkieranmtorn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 382 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Now I have to fight other CWs as well? Read my posts, I have always tried to preserve the PvE side of things as well. I am still running PvE to this day, because PvP is horribad.

    But sure thing, because you hate PvP, do your best to destroy your own class in it. Good job.
    I don't hate PVP, I just want them to keep in mind, not everything revolves around it. I want a capstones on CW that are as good as what other classes have (not currently with the nerfs and busted mechanics).

    In PVE:
    I hate proc damage effects for non-MoF. I want encounter damage or direct damage/crit buffs
    for passives instead of proc damage effects.

    I want an Orb of Imposition that isn't useless for non-Oppressors (5/5/5 is a joke, for
    non-Oppressors it needs to be 10/10/10).

    I want an Oppressor tree that isn't screwed if my Renegade uses chill and freezes something
    locking out the Oppressor Capstone.

    I also want the option to improve my survival by using a decent shield (marginal now,
    and worse in pvp).

    In PVP (I'm primarily a PVE player):

    I'd like the option to actually burst down opponents with a decent rotation
    (I'm dreaming, I know).

    I'd like a debuff ability for deflect like I have for DR.

    Since proc effect damage is getting neutered, I'd like something that was
    viable in place of that.

    And I'd like some of the stun control durations looked at, since without orb of
    Imposition, I can't freeze anything long enough to land a decent encounter.

    And yes, I understand if the supper-duper GWF sprinter catches me, I'm toast.

    And I'd like the CW's to stop shooting at each other before it escalates.
  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    I don't hate PVP, I just want them to keep in mind, not everything revolves around it. I want a capstones on CW that are as good as what other classes have (not currently with the nerfs and busted mechanics).

    And I'd like some of the stun control durations looked at, since without orb of
    Imposition, I can't freeze anything long enough to land a decent encounter.
    ]

    Well I have a solution to nerf PVE CWs without making PVP CWs whipping boys again.

    I have suggested that we increase CW's control and survivability. Give them more dodges, buff orb of imposition, buff control bonus on certain feats.

    You can nerf their DPS (therby nerfing PVE CW) but by adding those stuff to balance it out, you are protecting PVP CWs from the new TRs, as well as some GWFs and all the HRs
  • dante126pldante126pl Banned Users Posts: 257 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    so devs what about GWFs?we ill have the worst dmg output in m5, even clerics ill outdmg us .

    GWF should get base dmg incrased by 20-30%.
    STR stat on GWF should give 2-4% damage bonus per point spend.
    focused destroyer feat should give 100% chance at max rank to stack while hiting any amount of targets and incrased buff duration by 5 seconds.
    destroyer purpose should have 4 stacks which of 1 stack provide 10% dmg bonus.
    unstoppable gain and resistance should be brought back to it prevorious form.
    with every class dealing so much dmg there is no way GWF ill survive in mod 5.
  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    dante126pl wrote: »
    so devs what about GWFs?we ill have the worst dmg output in m5, even clerics ill outdmg us .

    GWF should get base dmg incrased by 20-30%.
    STR stat on GWF should give 2-4% damage bonus per point spend.
    focused destroyer feat should give 100% chance at max rank to stack while hiting any amount of targets and incrased buff duration by 5 seconds.
    destroyer purpose should have 4 stacks which of 1 stack provide 10% dmg bonus.
    unstoppable gain and resistance should be brought back to it prevorious form.
    with every class dealing so much dmg there is no way GWF ill survive in mod 5.

    i agree... I do not have anything to do with the fact that people project "the school bully" in gwf.
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    dante126pl wrote: »
    so devs what about GWFs?we ill have the worst dmg output in m5, even clerics ill outdmg us .

    GWF should get base dmg incrased by 20-30%.
    STR stat on GWF should give 2-4% damage bonus per point spend.
    focused destroyer feat should give 100% chance at max rank to stack while hiting any amount of targets and incrased buff duration by 5 seconds.
    destroyer purpose should have 4 stacks which of 1 stack provide 10% dmg bonus.
    unstoppable gain and resistance should be brought back to it prevorious form.
    with every class dealing so much dmg there is no way GWF ill survive in mod 5.

    Are we discussing balance here or planning the birth of another "Alpha" class? Your suggestions are way too much.

    My suggestions for GWF:
    GWF should get a base damage increase and buffs nerfed. So that he has more burst and would have to rely less on the 100 stacks he has to keep to do damage. Instigator GWF also needs survivability boosted, preferably the old unstoppable DR of 25-50%, due to him having the worst survivability among the 3 specs but a gameplay more fitting a tank build/class. Also, Sent GWF needs more threat generation.

    Other than that GWF is fine. What he lacks in damage he covers with better survivability and probably the best mobility in the game.
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Honestly the main reason why CWs can still do so much damage in pve isn't because of assailiant it's because of how lifesteal works. Remove lifesteal and then CWs will have to focus more on control, they will start spending more time dodging, as they should. No amount of damage nerfing can do that, as long as lifesteal remains a straight ~10% of the damage dealt CWs will still stand in red, facetanking everything without any issue. It may be time to tackle the real underlying issue instead of progressively making wizard's damage weaker and weaker update after update.
  • two30two30 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,168 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    • Creeping Death: Almost all powers that deal Necrotic Damage are now correctly identified as such, and should activate this feat much more reliably.

    Feedback: Blades of Vanquished Armies
    Blades of Vanquished Armies now properly triggers Creeping Death. However, it has a delayed start to its cooldown countdown, which reduces the benefit of Recharge Speed Increase for no reason. The 8s cooldown countdown doesn't start until the end of the effect (about 6 seconds after cast). Instead the cooldown countdown should start immediately upon cast and have a base length of approximately 14 seconds. This would make it scale properly with Recharge Speed Increase.
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  • lewstelamon01lewstelamon01 Member Posts: 7,415 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Feedback, guys. This thread isn't for bashing on each others' opinions or feedback, or smack talk, or anything else like that. If it's not any use to the devs in tweaking the changes, it doesn't belong in this thread. Devs aren't interested in what you think of someone else's feedback, they're interested in YOUR feedback and experiences with preview content.
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  • equ4lizerequ4lizer Member Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Scourge Warlock
    • Tyrannical Threat: The damage from this power should now benefit from Armor Penetration correctly.
    • Creeping Death: Almost all powers that deal Necrotic Damage are now correctly identified as such, and should activate this feat much more reliably.
    [/QUOTE]

    Does terror or tenebrous enchantment finally procs creeping death ?
    Anyone knows ?
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