Dunno if anyone is watching this anymore... But thanks for this trollin , gwf 19k gs is losing to those with 12k gs, good job! Class is dead in mod 4 ONLY FOR PVP OFC.
Your quite bad when this happenes
Gang Busters PvP Guild Recruiting When Mod 6 goes live Pm Me for more Info If you have any Paladin question Message Me and i will get back to you ASAP
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
sorry i dont want to troll or anythin like that, but we would like to get a response from GENTLEMAN CRUSH if it's possible, and tell us what he thinks of this updates, atm 4 pages of Leaderboard ar full of Mages and 2-3 gwf that didn't solo que, so i am hoping to find an answer on why did GWF was transformed into a Chicken Fighter that only he does is sprint after he get his finishing blow.
Most of the complaints about GWFs after mod 4 come from disguised CWs.Catalihn and realrobert are cws.GWFs stop being so naive.
by catalihn
"gwf damage is way out of line in pvp, IBS needs to be toned down a little "
^^^Speaks a freeze spam cw.
by therealrobert
"I am a r10 tr and gwfs one hit me with ibs. GWF needs damage nerf. "
&^^
You are not a TR you are a cw.You post as such in cw forum.Stop trolling GWFs
this happens because of the lack of activity from mods... they wave delete things and they dont keep tab of whats happening , making that the feedback threads were made only to be made and to not have a purpose at all ..
Why weren't you complaining during module 3, when the first 50 pages of the leaderboard was roughly 50% GWFs? (With the first couple pages dominated by HRs.)
well...
1 - the first part of the response is contained in the parenthesis "With the first couple pages dominated by HR."
???
2 - the gwf suffered a nerf in this argument of dominance. the "nerf" to the pve cw not hurt at all. the nerf in pvp hampered gwf in general, since the 13% damage lost early last module, and unstoppable now the other powers that were destroyed (or remain marginalized).
"preference" aside, no way to tell which classes, for good or evil, received the same treatment. i can say the rogue has received fair treatment in relation to gwf? I can not. two modules are already dedicated to gwf, a series of secret nerfs occurred, other things have not been repaired. it no longer be a matter of discussion that you take while has nothing to do at work or at home. is an ridiculous situation that deserves to be condemned. game or not, is immoral.
ps: we should choose to be "dps" or "tank", but without mark our damage is much lower, and the mark is accessible to the sentinel t2. so... what <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> choose is that?
Why weren't you complaining during module 3, when the first 50 pages of the leaderboard was roughly 50% GWFs? (With the first couple pages dominated by HRs.)
oh come on !!!
the only problem with GWFS in PVP was when the matchmaking system put them with lower GS player and his rought power could anihilate everythin.. people whined because of that. and devs should be lookin on doing a suitable way to do pvp, than gettin a 19k gs with a 9kgs in a team...
when the mod 3 came up, the classes that dominated at first the leader board were the TRs, after that the HRs and GWFS , after a week or so, people found out about this combination of roar and takedown that would give an upper advatange to strike a foe ... DEVS should've taken at that time to smite ROAR, but why didn't they do that?
people focused gwf too much and forgoten about HRs being very balanced between his defensive stats and offensive stats leaving almost no way to beat it ... TR should had more burst damage and less stealth, and i positively sure that's what they'll do in the near future, and CWS ? what does a CW missed? to do unblockable damage that would kill the target without having to struggle at all ? hmm
macjae coming here to justify things that were bad from previous updates and saying "they deserved it" doesn't help to grow this community, WE GWF WANT BALANCE not a class that dominate over others, WE ONLY WANT BALANCE!!! and giving REIGN TO A RANDOM CLASS EACH Mod won't help keepin the players playing this game ...
so the idea is that one DEV should talk with us and clarify what does they intend to do, and it's been almost 1 month and we don't know if they live or not..
By the way, I went through a few premades (which is all that matters) yesterday, and I can tell you:
- GWF still hurts a lot (which is good)
- the stuns are ridiculously long (considering the CW CC duration, I am OK with that as well)
- you need to dodge stuff now
- GWF no longer is able to go 1vs2 on nodes at all. I don't think any class still can. The amount of burst in PvP now is ridiculous (not just from CWs only). I kinda want there's a class that is able to 1vs2 for a bit, with low damage though. Have yet to meet the good GFs/HRs, so I don't know if they can do that. 99% HR is unable to though.
I'd say that in a 1vs1, a very good GWF can win 50% of his encounters with a very good CW - if they are skilled and hit their CCs. If they miss the CCs, you gonna melt to SS/Assailant.
IMO this puts the GWF in the place where the CW was in M3. You are basically required to outwit and out-skill the opponent by a significant margin to have a big chance for a win.
So GWF is a bit in a disadvantage overall. But it is not a huge gap AT ALL. If you have the skills&gear, you can still do very good. If you can kill CWs 50% of the time, you shouldn't be unhappy. The only real issue I see is that CW takes less skill to play to achieve good results while GWF seems to take lots of work. It is exactly what we CWs went through for so long.
If you really think this was the only problem, you're far removed from what the reality of it was. Which isn't necessarily an unnatural thing; people tend to justify things that benefit themselves. Obviously, the fact that the upper part of the leaderboard was dominated by GWFs is justified by the fact that all GWFs had high GSs forever and ever. Not that people built high GS GWFs because they were overpowered. (Of course, CWs being the dominant dungeon class, they should have had an easier time building high GSs, yet they didn't dominate the leaderboards.)
I and a few others actually posted concerns about Roar and Takedown immediately after the developers posted those notes. Feel free to check posting history. Of course, many GWFs justified that by destroyers being so "squishy" and they needed compensation for Deep Gash being fixed.
That sounds like a certain GWF build based around Intimidation, yes? I don't like the current implementation of Assailing Force nor Intimidation. So please join in on getting a fix to Intimidation too.
If what you really wanted was balance, you should have been protesting the Roar + Takedown regime a bit harder. But as you started out by saying, you didn't think it was a class balance issue in any case, just a gear issue. As if other classes somehow intrinsically lacked good gear.
There are a few GWFs who deserve some credit for actually calling for nerfs to their own class because they saw it as imbalanced. In some cases, they were probably calling for insufficient nerfs, either not seeing the full extent of the imbalances or perhaps speculating that they'll be nerfed just enough to maintain an advantage but not so much that people would have good grounds to keep complaining.
Personally, I would have fixed Roar so it didn't root, made Threatening Rush not so easily spammable, made it so Destroyers couldn't build up damage so fast, and either made Unstoppable less effective or made it possible to go Unstoppable less frequently. That would have sufficed, along with some boosts for GFs, CWs and DCs and a bunch of other fixes on HRs (like Constricting Arrow, Thorn Ward, armor set bonus).
First of all i was first that brought up the intimidation feat on this forum am told others from preview.. So it wasn't like i kept it a secret. . and like you dont know the difference between intimidation feat and assailant you are still an ignorant thinkin you are always right.
First of all cw assailant passes through defense same as intimidation..but for intimidation it.s a cost..it can be used by come and get it and daring shout and assailant activates without this condition.. So as a gwf i loose 2 encounters as cw i use rof.. So it s a difference in feats..and you didnt test it and you are still an ignorant at this point.. Next Thing is shield that cuta in half the damage from intimidation so if i have 10k power i do 5k damage and it.s cut in half so 2500 damage that isnt even crit.. So with this the gap between cw and gwf can be seen. Bu t you still ignorant , so we want balance we dont want opness.. I want to be on same par as gf now atleast . ididnt said that was the only problem , beside roar that needed to fixed , the other problem was the matchmaking and it is a big problem
even with the combination of Takedown/Roar there were TR that could handle the GWF and kill them not to say those CW who had a good rhytm and timing with their endless shard on tab. but SAYIN this GWF not havin ROAR would be on equal par with classes as CW and TR (talkin about mod 3) so why would they do this changes to this much extent? dunno ..
oh and let me mention this, i kept my opinions and feedback only on this Thread only, i didn't gone to Controlwixards or Hunter rangers threads or GF threads to talk about their classes because i was expecting that people there wouldn't come here and talk **** and only bring arguments as :
"the nerfs are good, they dominated to much "
" good updates now they will need skill to play"
but here is the big problem of all !!!!
you can't play this GAME WITH SKILL !!!!
you play with what you have with a GOOD SET / ENCHANTMENTS/ ARTIFACTS / FEATS / ENCOUNTERS !!!!!! and from this mix you get that skill , but not having good feats/encounters what build can you build?
a tROLL build such as sentinel + intimidation feat ... cuz other way you will get single handed by ungeared CWS that ignores all your defense/deflect ... and you still think this is OK !!!!
geezas christ, it's so plain obvious what changes need to be brought and you still insisting on this stupid idea
GWF had it easy in mod 3, now let other classes be like that, instead of FIXING the classes and make them balanced once and for all !!!!! in mod 5 what class would be? TR i expect as they said there will change it, and not to say when the 3rd path will come how imbalance the game will be even more...
If you really think this was the only problem, you're far removed from what the reality of it was. Which isn't necessarily an unnatural thing; people tend to justify things that benefit themselves. Obviously, the fact that the upper part of the leaderboard was dominated by GWFs is justified by the fact that all GWFs had high GSs forever and ever. Not that people built high GS GWFs because they were overpowered. (Of course, CWs being the dominant dungeon class, they should have had an easier time building high GSs, yet they didn't dominate the leaderboards.)
I and a few others actually posted concerns about Roar and Takedown immediately after the developers posted those notes. Feel free to check posting history. Of course, many GWFs justified that by destroyers being so "squishy" and they needed compensation for Deep Gash being fixed.
That sounds like a certain GWF build based around Intimidation, yes? I don't like the current implementation of Assailing Force nor Intimidation. So please join in on getting a fix to Intimidation too.
If what you really wanted was balance, you should have been protesting the Roar + Takedown regime a bit harder. But as you started out by saying, you didn't think it was a class balance issue in any case, just a gear issue. As if other classes somehow intrinsically lacked good gear.
There are a few GWFs who deserve some credit for actually calling for nerfs to their own class because they saw it as imbalanced. In some cases, they were probably calling for insufficient nerfs, either not seeing the full extent of the imbalances or perhaps speculating that they'll be nerfed just enough to maintain an advantage but not so much that people would have good grounds to keep complaining.
Personally, I would have fixed Roar so it didn't root, made Threatening Rush not so easily spammable, made it so Destroyers couldn't build up damage so fast, and either made Unstoppable less effective or made it possible to go Unstoppable less frequently. That would have sufficed, along with some boosts for GFs, CWs and DCs and a bunch of other fixes on HRs (like Constricting Arrow, Thorn Ward, armor set bonus).
someone give me a gun, this guy is playn tatarded
macjae i didnt said gwf had/has better gear than other classes, i said that most pug matches had 18k gs gwf (made for pvp )against 9k-12k gs players , and people whined because of this matchmaking system. I understand now that you have a ****ty attitude.and again you bring false assumptions.
i already said the difference between assailant and intimidation
first of all to stack that 9k power you need to sacrifice ARMOR PENETRATION / CRITICAL STRIKE / a bit of deflect / a bit of REGEN , making useless the 3rd encounter and the atwills and the daily . because you only play with Come and Get it and Daring shout as main source of doing damage.
and now i must repeat again
ASSAILANT is from feat and it doesn't require the same things as Intimidation
ASSAILANT PROCS when you do constant damage and you can pack alot of damage with 3 encounter 2 atwills and 1 daily.
a GWF with Intimidation against a CW with assailnt , CW FTW !!!!
because CW using shield on TAB
that means the GWF who uses only come and get it and Daring shout as his main source of damage
he will have his damage cut in half so 9k power = 4,5 damage intimidation = 2,2 damage, + 2,2 from daring shout = 13 second and 16 second of cooldown without even attack again, so how the fudge is a problem with intimidation? when a CW needs 5 seconds at most to kill a gwf. But then again you come here to trashtalk !!!!!!
let's take a GWF again against a GF , the same thing with intimidation, so GF puts knight valor on GWF and hits a critical, let's ask the public to say how much difference it's between a tank GF and a sentinel GWF in matter of burst damage, yeah you are right, you still are an ignorant , macjee.
Come and Get it and DAring shout doesnt go through GF shield.
next it's HR , the same story as CW , even if you do alot of damage at the begining, hr has 6 encounters , he only needs a half of his rotation and he is back at full hp. so me with 9k power does / 4.5x2 damage, he with half of rotation gets his full hp and does alot of damage as DOT too.
a GWF against a TR ? well TR should change their tactics and do a TR mostly based on DPS and HP , because perma ain't workin so well from POV i see , so with perfect vorpal and nice crits he will manage against a GWF ... not to say if he spams daily with sigil of devoted , gwf with intimidation is dead . and now ir roaming a TR build with 40+ deflect chance.
next is DC , this intimidation thing won't kill him, as the dc can stay still and heal himself... the damage i do won't overcome his healing abilities...
next is warlock, this is an easy target as there aren't clear builds yet and can't see a good fight.
so here it is..as i only state my POV on faceing other classes 1vs1 and told how a 1vs1 would go.
you give advices go swordmaster sentinel/stack power wtf!?!?! it's clearly you meet a GWF in preview with companions... you CANNOT STACK THAT MUCH POWER WITHOUT LOSING HP / TENACITY and DEFENSIVE STATS !!!!
yeah GWF NEEDS PRONE, as it's the only class without a prone, if he gets proned from other class the fights i said earlier will become more easier !!!!
.it's rather deplorable if you think right now it's balanced.
if you want things to be balanced
nerf a little of the the CW damage/ nerf his defensive abilities
hr has tankines/ damage/ and self healing, that is to much on a single class
trickster rogue atm he only does his build that suits better in a PVP so i am not certain on givin him more damage and nerf a little of his stealth.
GwF needs to be reworked givin him more BASE damage and nerfing the cap stones.
for GF they need to make the blue bar connected to his stamina because of all those flashlights we dont know when he blocks or not, so he has an advantage using this. and dont know how responsive his shift is, but if it is very responsive than this idea is good. and if he has bugged skills they should say it , as a GF with defensive stats to do alot of burst damage that might ignore defense/deflect that even i dont know.
you clearly dont want balance macjae if you still comin to talk trashtalk about GWF:
not to say that GWF didnt got only this nerfs
he got alot of nerfs before like Weapon Master , Student of the sword, Unstopable and other nninja nerfs.
so accumulating this nerfs with mod 4 = dead class, not to say that classes got reworked paragons/heroic feats.
thats why i was sayng you should relook at the feats and compare with other classes feats
as GWF lost his known abilities from mod 1 until now.
GWF were great at the begining because he could stack alot of HP + regen , makin him special, with time passing he lost that difference that he had against other classes as he isn't the only class that can reach 40k hp, now every class can get that hp, except GF that can reach more than 60k HP .
so then again you keep being an ignorant and sayn Intimidation = Assailnt.
not to say to use intimidation you need r9-10 Radiants = 18k gs pvp gwf(so for newcommers this build is impossible) against a PVE CW with 14k GS , i wonder who will win.
bTW : deepgash it's 20% out of how much power you have, and let's asume you have 10000 POWER = 2000 damage that means 2000 / 6 = 333 damage for 6 seconds until it reaches 2000 damage, and to use DEEPgash you need to crit, and on the build you dont have crit, ntz ntz.. cool DOT for a GWF when a HR does 1k 1k 1k 1k 1kDOT.
Feedback stuns: Bring back Prones to encounters - Takedown & Frontline Surge
How ridiculous it is now pvp with stuns, i'm really disappointed how my class now it is.
Takedown don't fall down, no animation,no Prones, COMBOs are not longer possible
Okey, i agreed when you reduce the DAMAGE overall from GWF,
But PLEASE bring back Prones!
At the first times, i didn't notice how essential Prones are for GWF.
I would say it is just as important as Unstoppable itself.
prones is really necessary for the class gwf.
As main GWF i would accept lower Unstoppable changes ! or DMG Reduce (this really break my heart but. ok) Just for bringen back PRONES. (as you see I am despair)
<::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
why GWF sprint animation got changed to that silly run thing that i cant even find a name for?
i hope its a bug and ill be fixed fast.
come on this sprint animation makes the class even more unplayable, whose horrible idea was that to change it into this sh. show me that person ill slap him/her right away
GWFs still hit hard but cannot stand in your face and swing away (at least Destroyers can't) and to me this is balanced. For too long GWFs had the best of both worlds. Best/second best DPS? Check. Best survivability? Check. It was just too good to be true. The base tankiness had to go. You can still get back there with a Sentinel, but at the expense of DPS, which is fine. The fact that my 14k PVP/PVE hybrid Destroyer was outperforming my 16k PVP GF in PVP was concerning.
I would consider rolling Takedown back to a stun though.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
GWFs still hit hard but cannot stand in your face and swing away (at least Destroyers can't) and to me this is balanced. For too long GWFs had the best of both worlds. Best/second best DPS? Check. Best survivability? Check. It was just too good to be true. The base tankiness had to go. You can still get back there with a Sentinel, but at the expense of DPS, which is fine. The fact that my 14k PVP/PVE hybrid Destroyer was outperforming my 16k PVP GF in PVP was concerning.
I would consider rolling Takedown back to a stun though.
GF is new GWF, more tanking/burst (and with godamn target dash) than mod3 GWF.
Feedback Stuns: Dear Devs PLS Bring back Prones to encounters.
Come on Takedown whitout a Prone is a Joke (and not a funny one)
Please consider that again, Prones are very essential for GWF.
I would like to Spend more, into my character but
i can't if i'm not sure how this changes will continues.
<::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
Feedback Stun: Devs "How about to adding Prone just for "Frontline Surge"?
because as "Iron Vanguard Sentinel" we got already the lowest dmg of all fighters Skill builds.
this is why Sentinel needs chance to survive and a possibility to catch enemies.
i think this is a really good idea for a real balancing of Gwf. Everything else can be left as it is.
The separation between offensive and defensive of GWF its sure the right way but we can improve it a bit.
High dmg whit a lower resistance and no prone as destroyer swordmaster
Lower dmg whit bether resistance and 1 prone as sentinel Vanguard
this would be support the changes.
<::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
Don't change Destroyer for PvP. Let it like that, as a PvE DPS Tree. Sentinel is Tank PvP/PvE Tree.
If we wanted to have a GWF who deals damages and who is viable in PvP, then there is another Tree exactly for it : Instigator. This is why this Tree HAS TO BE REWORKED.
When it will be its turn, I'll expect a rework into a glasscanon/highburst with DR piercing/crit, with high mobility, few controls, high burst (with DR Reduces, true damages, passing deflection for example), but sucks in tanking.
Actually Destroyer has Sprint or even Punishing Charge but Punishing Charge doesn't give control immune (and Mighty Leap ... Mighty Leap ...)
My propositions to make Instigator viable : P.S : for the damages changes of a Encounter ect, let's say the GWF affected has 8k power.
T1 : Student of the Sword :
Your critical strikes lower your target's DR to your attacks by 1/2/3/4/5% for 5 seconds. This effect does not stack.
Before the nerf, it could stack 3 times. It was a lot because the old GWF had damages and tanking. But now he must choose between damages and tanking. This Tree should be pvp damages. So this must get a little change, but not against squishy classes (would be too much), but against Tanky classes.
Your critical strikes lower your ACTUAL target's DR to your attacks by 2/4/6/8/10 % for 5 seconds. Block and Unstoppable also count.
For a CW for example, if he has 30% DR, the reduce will be 3%.
Less than the actual, but it's better, if Instigator were reworked, the feat would be a little bit too powerfull against low DR, but still not good against high DR (GWF Sentinel, GF ...).
The point is to nerf it a bit against squishies classes and buff it against tank, to have an equal chance.
For example, a GWF Sentinel should have between 80% (around 40% without unstoppable) and 120% DR (but not really true, I don't really know how does it work).So a Sentinel GWF will see his 120% DR reduced to 108 (10% of 120 --> -12%).
Fleet Footed :
Whenever you control a target, you gain an additional 3/6/9/12/15% Run Speed for 3 seconds.
This feat can be really good to catch someone, but in fact, it's bad. What's the point of gaining Run Speed when your target is controlled, so she can't move ? GWF'd rather gaining this Run Speed after the controls affect himself. This feat also encourages being a glasscanon with high mobility/burst but being really squishy.
Whenever you are controlled, you gain an additional 3/6/9/12/15% Run Speed for 3 seconds.
This change allows GWF to approach his target a little bit easier. You can think it can be broken, but in fact, not that much, he'll still take the controls, and damages. GWF can play with more skill with this change : he can permuting Sprint or not, to take a little control like Slow, to gain the Run Speed and then Sprints.
Vicious Advantage : Combat Advantage now grants an additional 1/2/3/4/5% Crit chance and damages.
This. With the Instigator changes I propose, it's perfectly fine.
Stunning Flourish :
Flourish has an extra chance 1/2/3/4/5% to crit and stuns for 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1 second on last hit.
Flourish stuns longer. Aw. If we kept this feat and buffed it, it would be overpowered (enjoy the 4 seconds stun). With the Instigator changes, Flourish would have too much Critical chance.
Flourish now gains an additional of X/X/X/X/X range (a very little buff of range, no worries) and now gives a control immunity while casting, but you take 1/2/3/4/5% more damage during this time.
You can think it can be overpowered. But in fact, no. Actually Flourish has a big cast time, can be interrupted, and easily dodgeable. This feat compensates it by buffing a very little bit the range, and gives control immunity during the cast (like Crescendo/Spinning Strike), but you take more damage during this time. Flourish would still be easily dodgeable because of his cast time and obvious animation.
The little buff of range helps more and control immunity on this long animation is a must GWF had to have since start of the game. Now, a GWF who slots Flourish, is dangerous. Now, an ennemy, instead of obviously using a control to never let you using this power, must dodge/block/run.
It would not be broken. Why ? An Instigator GWF is a highburst in melee, but squishy, not tanky. And when he's near to you, he should be really dangerous.
P.S : stun duration lowered to 2 seconds from 3 seconds (it would be broken for rotations).
Or the IV feat :
Frontline Surge deals 1/2/3/4/5% more damages and (now stuns) ennemies for 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1 sec more.
Once again, remove stun. 4 seconds stun, too much.
Frontline Surge deals 3/6/9/12/15% more damages.
With the recent high damages nerf of Frontline Surge, 15% more damages seems legit for Instigator. It would be, around +250-300 damages (actually the damages are 1800-2100). Not a lot, but it's AoE, in range.
Nimble Runner :
Sprint and Punishing Charge now grants 2/4/6/8/10% deflect chance.
Sprint needn't. It is already good (or almost too much good, 30% DR is maybe a little bit too high). Punishing Charge should have Control Immunity, but it would be "Never CCed GWF" with the actual Sprint.
Punishing Charge now grants 3/6/9/12/15% more deflect chance and deals 4/8/12/16/20% more damages.
P.S : Punishing Charge : 3 charges, but the damages are between 800-1100, +20%, it means +160-220.
This change would recompensate the players who calculate when they'd take high damages, and/or if they want to engage/escape more quickly than Sprint, but without Control Immunity, this is why they must use it at the right time (Oh god, is GWF becoming a skilled class ?). One thing which would be good, is to change the Punishing Charge animation (GWF rising his Weapon like he wants to be Immune/Protected) into THE OLD Sprint animation (it would be so beautiful)
Little change to do : making Punishing Charge a little bit more responsive when he casts and when the animation ends.
Allied Opportunity :
Mighty Leap and Not So Fast deals an additional of 2/4/6/8/10% damages and you and your allies gain Combat Advantage against the damaged target for 1/1.5/2/2.5/3 seconds.
This feat gives Combat Advantage, a good synergy with Vicious Advantage. But, the damages buffs are a little bit too low (check base damages, Mighty Leap --> around 1400-1600, Not So Fast around 1800-2200) and the Combat Advantage Duration is too short because ennemies can kite, run, dodge, control you and waste this time easily.
Mighty Leap deals an additional of 10/20/30/40/50% damages and Not So fast 10/15/20/25/30% damages you and your allies gain Combat Advantage against the damaged target for 0.8/1.6/2.4/3.2/4 seconds.
50% more damages of around 1900 (max base damage) means +900, so 2700. For Mighty Leap, a jump, not a lot, but not bad. For Not So fast, 30% of 2200 (max damage) means 660, so 2860, not that much, not that bad, because : melee with just a little slow. But with 10 seconds CD. Perfect damages with perfect mechanics, don't you think ? The Combat Advantage is 1 second longer, not that much, 4 seconds, the ennemies have the time to dodge, or run, or control etc but they must take care.
If you think it's still too short, there are other ways to get Combat Advantage, and Not So Fast CD is 10 seconds, and Mighty Leap is 12 seconds.
Group Assault : Wicked Strike now deals an additional 1/2/3/4/5% for each target hit.
Good for PvE, but in fact, not really, because the damages are reduced in the exactly same mechanic. So this is a good for a bad, the feat is finally not worth. You know what will I change
Group Assault : Wicked Strike now deals an additional 1/2/3/4/5% for each target hit and the damages are not reduced anymore for each target you hit beyond the first.
A better Wicked Strike, and would be good with the Artifact Weapon for PvE or even PvP (but I don't think personally).
Crippling Strike : Spinning Strike and Avalanche of Steel now slow your target for 10/20/30/40/50%.
Can be good for some situations. But the point is Avalanche of Steel slow is not good (slow after prone, but i'm not sure).
Crippling Strike : Spinning Strike now slow your target for 10/20/30/40/50%, and Avalanche of Steels now Slow your target while you are in the air by 10/15/20/25/30%. Slam can now crit.
Avalanche of Steel was easily dodgeable with dodges, and even without when there were 2 or more people and you wanted to hit them all. Now Avalanche of Steel slows while you are in the air, which makes the Daily dangerous because it's less easily dodgeable (but still). And Slam which crits, this is more a fix than a buff, because it always had to crit. Giving the crit Slam in this feat, why not ?
To fix : Spinning Strike OFTEN doesn't give Control Immune while using it.
Final Feat :
Instigator's Vengeance : Your damage is increased by 12%, but taking direct damage will disable this bonus for 3 seconds.
The thing is you always take damages, you're a GWF, you take damages to approach your ennemies. In very rare cases you will keep this buff.
Instigator's Vengeance : Your damage is increased by 15 %, but taking direct damage will divide this bonus by 2 for 3 seconds. In addition, 8% of your damages ignore your target DR.
Giving more damages to GWFs who come at the right time, or have a good positioning, is a thing to keep. Taking damages now doesn't disable the feat, it now doesn't make the feat totally useless (and not broken, 7.5% more damages or 15%, Destroyer in PvE has permanently +40% more damages, in PvP it depends). 8% of GWF's damages ignoring target's DR, it means, for a 5k Encounter, he deals 400 TRUE damages (not that much). It means if he killed someone alone, with 30k HP (including regeneration/lifesteal/artifact), he dealt 2400 TRUE damages (not a lot, but this is good).
It is now a real Final Feat for Instigator.
The reasons of these changes are actual Instigator is really bad but has a good potential. Those buffs are not "damnly broken buffs". It wouldn't make the actual IBS/Crescendo or any other combo "Broken", no. These changes give chances to GWFs to have other Encounter/At-Wills/Dailies good (Wicked Strike, Punishing Charge, Spinning Strike, Avalanche of Steel, Slam, Not So Fast) and with new Builds. It would make the GWF player calculating when they should use their power, alternating Sprint and their powers, like Punishing Charge/Mighty Leap, and not the thing you hate "Mod 3 GWF"
This would make the glasscanon GWF viable, but not broken, because he'd stay squishy, easily killable in rotations, the fight now would depend of the skill between GWF and the ennemy.
Feedback: Devs PLS 1Prone on encounter for GWF is needed at least.
for Frontline Surge as Sentinel or Takedown!
give us a chance to catch enemies, Currently with this skills are the fail rate over 80%
<::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
- Give Encounter PRONES back to the GWF-Class. The move should be Takedown. Also, takedown's damage should be rised up 15% This way, as all other classes do, we can do "guaranteed" damage.
I think turning Takedown into a Prone is fair. My GF has one prone so I think it is only fair that the GWF gets one. BUT, on the condition that it loses the cooldown buff from the Relentless Battle Fury feat.
- Increase Threatering rush's charges up to 5 from 3 with 12 secs CD and its damage a 10% 3 charges at that HIGH CD makes this At-Will really useless due rubberbanding. At least, with 5 charges we can "confirm" that GWF-class will hit their targe. The rise on damage is an obvious fact. Also as someone suggested here: you can remove both the damage (or reduce it into 1 damage at all levels) and the charges limit and make it just a "mark at-will move"
I'd honestly support rolling it back to a permanent at-will, seeing as how other tweaks have ensured the GWF is not the immortal spam-king of devastating powers. No damage boost, but no longer a charge-based power. Would have to test this though, as due to the GWF's increased Sprint stamina it could be that a GWF will never ever stay still, either sprinting or rushing around, and thus very difficult to escape and target.
- Weapon Master Strike must mitigate 20% of armor for 4/+3/+3 secs as mark does for I.V. Threatering rush 's mark grants that amount of damage. If Destroyer's Staying power is picked, it should mitigate 4/8/12/16/20% of armor on Encounters and dailies for the same amount of time as for at-wills does Self-explanatory. This way, you will have both paragon paths more balanced between them
The Paragons are not supposed to be equals. One is a tanking path, the other is a DPS path. You should not get the same benefits from both. 20% seems a little much. Maybe add a boosted debuff to Staying Power.
- Deep Gash's bleed damage should be rised to 5/10/15/20/25% in 3 secs. Due other classes buffs on their own T1 feats, this is a really logic buff. Maybe up to 25% is too much, so, 20% would do the job too.
No. Deep Gash is a Tier 1 feat and what you say is far too powerful for a Tier 1 feat. Remember, Deep Gash was originally nerfed because it was doing far too much damage for a feat that all 3 paths could choose. People were complaining about Sentinels because they were tanky and doing massive damage thanks to Deep Gash.
- Stundent of the sword should lower the armor by 2/4/6/8/10% With all Armor Piercing damage dealt by other classes, this is a MUST.
Same as Deep Gash, no. This was already nerfed because Sentinels were taking it with Deep Gash and doing huge amounts of damage. The rest of the Instigator tree needs to be looked at to make it better, but over-buffing a Tier 1 feat that all 3 paths can get is not the right way.
- Make Determination gaining via damage as it was on mod 3 Losing half of our HP bars to activate Unstop is really odd and bad. GWF-class should be able to use unstop when they loses 20% of their HP, not 50%. Also, to compensate this if you do not want to revert this change, you should make "Unstoppable recovery" to recover around 10%/20%/30%/40%/50% of Max HP when unstop is activated (10k HP on PvP as it is right now means NOTHING)
Fair request to improve Determination gain a little. Hell no to your proposed Unstoppable Recovery. Like Deep Gash and Student of the Sword, this is a Tier 1 feat and allowing it to recover 50% of your health is madness. Destroyers with this and improved Determination gain would just be stupid.
- Make DR gained via determination "not pierced" by any means Self-explanatory
No. Not even the GFs guard 100% mitigates damage, so I don't know why the GWF should get immunity from damage. Factor in your proposed Unstoppable Recovery buff and faster Determination gain and Destroyer GWFs will once again become the kings of PVP and pretty much indestructible.
- If you did not reverted it back, rise our base damage and armor as it was on mod 3 Self-explanatory
As far as I know, the only base damage changes were done to Frontline Surge and Threatening Rush, everything else was left alone. Same goes for defense, they haven't nerfed anything with regards to your defensive stat or armour. If you feel soft it is because you cannot use Unstoppable like a crutch anymore. The days of standing in red or in front of 2-3 players and killing everything are over. GWFs need to do what they always should have done; use their mobility to deal damage. Re-position yourself to avoid the heavy blows of your enemy and not just sit in red AOEs.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Some of you guys just blow the fact away, that SM path must be an alternative choice to IV. With current TR, the IV gain a little movement advantage, without a charge system, the IV just stick like a fly on her meat. That's increasing DPS due less running - especially with the little movement we only have now without interrupting roar. And DPS is a feature of SM or should be.
Some of you guys just blow the fact away, that SM path must be an alternative choice to IV. With current TR, the IV gain a little movement advantage, without a charge system, the IV just stick like a fly on her meat. That's increasing DPS due less running - especially with the little movement we only have now without interrupting roar. And DPS is a feature of SM or should be.
Well that is why I said a chargeless TR should be tested with the new Sprint, but the more I think about it the more I agree with what you said. It will be a terrible idea.
We can all agree that the GWF was heavily nerfed in a number of areas, so giving a little back in one or two of those areas may not be such a bad thing.
The nerfs to TR and FLS damage should ensure that SM does more damage. I can personally attest to the fact that Flourish is vastly superior to FLS in terms if single target DPS as I tested the two on my own GWF.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Author's Note - Statements in this message in *no way* should be considered as me taking a potshot at the GF class. I'm glad to see you guys finally got some love and increased viability. I think your class (from my limited outsiders PoV) seems to be in a good place, although I'm sure there are tweaks/fixes to be made, as with all classes.
Threatening Rush - when will the lack of Marks be fixed? This has been broken since a week or two before launch.
Sentinel needs some love, guys. GF's can do more DPS in their tank spec and tank better in DPS spec than we can DPS *or* tank in a Sentinel spec. While I support us not being in the same caliber of tankiness, I do think the DPS is a bit sub par. In a Sentinel build with tanking level gear, I see maybe... a 20-30% increase in survivability. This is fine, as we are a light mobility tank, although I think our DR took a little too much of a hit in Sentinel (although part of this may be capstone bugginess, TBD) but we do, at best, 40-50% of Destro DPS. If we're lucky.
We shouldn't take *quite* the hit on DPS we do in exchange for the marginal increase in survivability we receive in Sentinel (although threat increase is, IMHO, "decent'ish" - again, some slight breakage in class skills - TR only Marks a single target impacts significantly for example).
When I say "at best 40-50% of Destro build", I really need to explain that in more detail. Testing in a vacuum - ie, just against parsing dummies, etc - I do just at 40% of my Destro build. That is to say, if I pull about 11k on dummies in destro, I'm seeing a shade over 4k in Senti.
In the real world, it's really closer to 15-20%. ON AVERAGE, in a dragon HE, I'll pull between 14-18K DPS. 18k DPS burst in short fights, 14-15k(ish) in sustained fights.
Going with the low end of 14K, vis a vis my open world tanking parses, I pull 3-4K. Tops.
Understand, I am NOT lobbying that GWF should be uberbuffed, etc etc etc. However, what I *am* saying is - there is no compelling reason *why* we should spec into the Sentinel tree unless you plan on spending 100% of your time in delves/dungeon runs, and even then - if you're really really good, you can just about be as effective DPS spec'd with some gear shuffle, and do 2-3 times the damage. It is nigh unto impossible to use this spec in open world PVE to solo, as the limited increase in survival is far overshadowed by the *massive* reduction in DPS. As an example - 9 minutes to do a Totem of Auril. And I'm having to use pots. DPS spec - Couple minutes tops, never touch a pot.
While on test, prior to Mod 4 launching, I did about 60% of my Destroyer build DPS, with about the same amount of survivability as what went live. This "felt" fairly close to where it should be dialed in. If I'm getting a 20-30% increase in tankiness, and some threat management tools, then yeah - I should see a penalty in damage dealt. But not a 2/3 reduction in damage output for a 1/3 increase in survivability.
Ultimately, as stated, there is NO compelling reason to go Sentinel.
I *like* playing hybrid tanks. What I'm ultimately hope for, as the (hopefully) continue to balance the class, is to bump things up a bit here to make this happen. And give us a better method of spec switching on Live than throwing 78K away each time
That, and for gods sake, fix the Instigator tree for PVP usage.
man if you have 8k power on a sentinel you do 40% less damage than a destroyer, cause his capstone feat says that he does 40% more damage.. that's the difference in dps and i dont see any problem with that...
Make sprint start and stop an instant animation similar to punishing charge burst, with only difference that the lenght is not fixed but determined by how long you press a button. Right now it lags. The animation starts but you get cced. Make it instant and precise to better time dodges, if you can
Give GWFs their prones back. At least on Takedown. Removing the prones from Takedown and IBS is basically turning an MMO into a board game. If necessary, you can reduce the range on Takedown, but as it is now, no one likes it. Neither the person being frontlined/"taken down", nor the GWF using it. It is ridiculous and it looks ridiculous.
My suggestion: short prone on Frontline, long prone on Takedown.
GWFs really aren't supposed to have a full-on dodge mechanic; that's what unstoppable is for. Allowing them to use it like that would be giving them the most dodges in the game (7).
True but unstoppable right now is laughable...50% hp lost roughly for 8 seconds during which you can be kited.
Also, remember that sprint is to close the gap too. So it's not 7 dodges cause the whole stamina must be used for BOTH gap closing and defensive movement. Improved response/ instant burst just allows a gwf to exactly know the immunity frames.
Devs justified the unstoppable nerf and sprint changes to 'bring sprint in line with other shift moves'. Being responsive is a part of being 'in line'.
True but unstoppable right now is laughable...50% hp lost roughly for 8 seconds during which you can be kited.
Also, remember that sprint is to close the gap too. So it's not 7 dodges cause the whole stamina must be used for BOTH gap closing and defensive movement. Improved response/ instant burst just allows a gwf to exactly know the immunity frames.
Devs justified the unstoppable nerf and sprint changes to 'bring sprint in line with other shift moves'. Being responsive is a part of being 'in line'.
I'd prefer keeping the actual Sprint and rework Unstoppable into a CC cleanse when activated, a DR removed but with more Sprint (or even infinite) and the next Encounter ameliorated (or even both when using Unstoppable)."Rage" like a barbarian.
Comments
Your quite bad when this happenes
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
by catalihn
"gwf damage is way out of line in pvp, IBS needs to be toned down a little "
^^^Speaks a freeze spam cw.
by therealrobert
"I am a r10 tr and gwfs one hit me with ibs. GWF needs damage nerf. "
&^^
You are not a TR you are a cw.You post as such in cw forum.Stop trolling GWFs
this happens because of the lack of activity from mods... they wave delete things and they dont keep tab of whats happening , making that the feedback threads were made only to be made and to not have a purpose at all ..
well...
1 - the first part of the response is contained in the parenthesis "With the first couple pages dominated by HR."
???
2 - the gwf suffered a nerf in this argument of dominance. the "nerf" to the pve cw not hurt at all. the nerf in pvp hampered gwf in general, since the 13% damage lost early last module, and unstoppable now the other powers that were destroyed (or remain marginalized).
"preference" aside, no way to tell which classes, for good or evil, received the same treatment. i can say the rogue has received fair treatment in relation to gwf? I can not. two modules are already dedicated to gwf, a series of secret nerfs occurred, other things have not been repaired. it no longer be a matter of discussion that you take while has nothing to do at work or at home. is an ridiculous situation that deserves to be condemned. game or not, is immoral.
ps: we should choose to be "dps" or "tank", but without mark our damage is much lower, and the mark is accessible to the sentinel t2. so... what <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> choose is that?
oh come on !!!
the only problem with GWFS in PVP was when the matchmaking system put them with lower GS player and his rought power could anihilate everythin.. people whined because of that. and devs should be lookin on doing a suitable way to do pvp, than gettin a 19k gs with a 9kgs in a team...
when the mod 3 came up, the classes that dominated at first the leader board were the TRs, after that the HRs and GWFS , after a week or so, people found out about this combination of roar and takedown that would give an upper advatange to strike a foe ... DEVS should've taken at that time to smite ROAR, but why didn't they do that?
people focused gwf too much and forgoten about HRs being very balanced between his defensive stats and offensive stats leaving almost no way to beat it ... TR should had more burst damage and less stealth, and i positively sure that's what they'll do in the near future, and CWS ? what does a CW missed? to do unblockable damage that would kill the target without having to struggle at all ? hmm
macjae coming here to justify things that were bad from previous updates and saying "they deserved it" doesn't help to grow this community, WE GWF WANT BALANCE not a class that dominate over others, WE ONLY WANT BALANCE!!! and giving REIGN TO A RANDOM CLASS EACH Mod won't help keepin the players playing this game ...
so the idea is that one DEV should talk with us and clarify what does they intend to do, and it's been almost 1 month and we don't know if they live or not..
- GWF still hurts a lot (which is good)
- the stuns are ridiculously long (considering the CW CC duration, I am OK with that as well)
- you need to dodge stuff now
- GWF no longer is able to go 1vs2 on nodes at all. I don't think any class still can. The amount of burst in PvP now is ridiculous (not just from CWs only). I kinda want there's a class that is able to 1vs2 for a bit, with low damage though. Have yet to meet the good GFs/HRs, so I don't know if they can do that. 99% HR is unable to though.
I'd say that in a 1vs1, a very good GWF can win 50% of his encounters with a very good CW - if they are skilled and hit their CCs. If they miss the CCs, you gonna melt to SS/Assailant.
IMO this puts the GWF in the place where the CW was in M3. You are basically required to outwit and out-skill the opponent by a significant margin to have a big chance for a win.
So GWF is a bit in a disadvantage overall. But it is not a huge gap AT ALL. If you have the skills&gear, you can still do very good. If you can kill CWs 50% of the time, you shouldn't be unhappy. The only real issue I see is that CW takes less skill to play to achieve good results while GWF seems to take lots of work. It is exactly what we CWs went through for so long.
First of all cw assailant passes through defense same as intimidation..but for intimidation it.s a cost..it can be used by come and get it and daring shout and assailant activates without this condition.. So as a gwf i loose 2 encounters as cw i use rof.. So it s a difference in feats..and you didnt test it and you are still an ignorant at this point.. Next Thing is shield that cuta in half the damage from intimidation so if i have 10k power i do 5k damage and it.s cut in half so 2500 damage that isnt even crit.. So with this the gap between cw and gwf can be seen. Bu t you still ignorant , so we want balance we dont want opness.. I want to be on same par as gf now atleast . ididnt said that was the only problem , beside roar that needed to fixed , the other problem was the matchmaking and it is a big problem
even with the combination of Takedown/Roar there were TR that could handle the GWF and kill them not to say those CW who had a good rhytm and timing with their endless shard on tab. but SAYIN this GWF not havin ROAR would be on equal par with classes as CW and TR (talkin about mod 3) so why would they do this changes to this much extent? dunno ..
oh and let me mention this, i kept my opinions and feedback only on this Thread only, i didn't gone to Controlwixards or Hunter rangers threads or GF threads to talk about their classes because i was expecting that people there wouldn't come here and talk **** and only bring arguments as :
"the nerfs are good, they dominated to much "
" good updates now they will need skill to play"
but here is the big problem of all !!!!
you can't play this GAME WITH SKILL !!!!
you play with what you have with a GOOD SET / ENCHANTMENTS/ ARTIFACTS / FEATS / ENCOUNTERS !!!!!! and from this mix you get that skill , but not having good feats/encounters what build can you build?
a tROLL build such as sentinel + intimidation feat ... cuz other way you will get single handed by ungeared CWS that ignores all your defense/deflect ... and you still think this is OK !!!!
geezas christ, it's so plain obvious what changes need to be brought and you still insisting on this stupid idea
GWF had it easy in mod 3, now let other classes be like that, instead of FIXING the classes and make them balanced once and for all !!!!! in mod 5 what class would be? TR i expect as they said there will change it, and not to say when the 3rd path will come how imbalance the game will be even more...
hit the nail on the head with this post.
macjae i didnt said gwf had/has better gear than other classes, i said that most pug matches had 18k gs gwf (made for pvp )against 9k-12k gs players , and people whined because of this matchmaking system. I understand now that you have a ****ty attitude.and again you bring false assumptions.
i already said the difference between assailant and intimidation
first of all to stack that 9k power you need to sacrifice ARMOR PENETRATION / CRITICAL STRIKE / a bit of deflect / a bit of REGEN , making useless the 3rd encounter and the atwills and the daily . because you only play with Come and Get it and Daring shout as main source of doing damage.
and now i must repeat again
ASSAILANT is from feat and it doesn't require the same things as Intimidation
ASSAILANT PROCS when you do constant damage and you can pack alot of damage with 3 encounter 2 atwills and 1 daily.
a GWF with Intimidation against a CW with assailnt , CW FTW !!!!
because CW using shield on TAB
that means the GWF who uses only come and get it and Daring shout as his main source of damage
he will have his damage cut in half so 9k power = 4,5 damage intimidation = 2,2 damage, + 2,2 from daring shout = 13 second and 16 second of cooldown without even attack again, so how the fudge is a problem with intimidation? when a CW needs 5 seconds at most to kill a gwf. But then again you come here to trashtalk !!!!!!
let's take a GWF again against a GF , the same thing with intimidation, so GF puts knight valor on GWF and hits a critical, let's ask the public to say how much difference it's between a tank GF and a sentinel GWF in matter of burst damage, yeah you are right, you still are an ignorant , macjee.
Come and Get it and DAring shout doesnt go through GF shield.
next it's HR , the same story as CW , even if you do alot of damage at the begining, hr has 6 encounters , he only needs a half of his rotation and he is back at full hp. so me with 9k power does / 4.5x2 damage, he with half of rotation gets his full hp and does alot of damage as DOT too.
a GWF against a TR ? well TR should change their tactics and do a TR mostly based on DPS and HP , because perma ain't workin so well from POV i see , so with perfect vorpal and nice crits he will manage against a GWF ... not to say if he spams daily with sigil of devoted , gwf with intimidation is dead . and now ir roaming a TR build with 40+ deflect chance.
next is DC , this intimidation thing won't kill him, as the dc can stay still and heal himself... the damage i do won't overcome his healing abilities...
next is warlock, this is an easy target as there aren't clear builds yet and can't see a good fight.
so here it is..as i only state my POV on faceing other classes 1vs1 and told how a 1vs1 would go.
you give advices go swordmaster sentinel/stack power wtf!?!?! it's clearly you meet a GWF in preview with companions... you CANNOT STACK THAT MUCH POWER WITHOUT LOSING HP / TENACITY and DEFENSIVE STATS !!!!
yeah GWF NEEDS PRONE, as it's the only class without a prone, if he gets proned from other class the fights i said earlier will become more easier !!!!
.it's rather deplorable if you think right now it's balanced.
if you want things to be balanced
nerf a little of the the CW damage/ nerf his defensive abilities
hr has tankines/ damage/ and self healing, that is to much on a single class
trickster rogue atm he only does his build that suits better in a PVP so i am not certain on givin him more damage and nerf a little of his stealth.
GwF needs to be reworked givin him more BASE damage and nerfing the cap stones.
for GF they need to make the blue bar connected to his stamina because of all those flashlights we dont know when he blocks or not, so he has an advantage using this. and dont know how responsive his shift is, but if it is very responsive than this idea is good. and if he has bugged skills they should say it , as a GF with defensive stats to do alot of burst damage that might ignore defense/deflect that even i dont know.
you clearly dont want balance macjae if you still comin to talk trashtalk about GWF:
not to say that GWF didnt got only this nerfs
he got alot of nerfs before like Weapon Master , Student of the sword, Unstopable and other nninja nerfs.
so accumulating this nerfs with mod 4 = dead class, not to say that classes got reworked paragons/heroic feats.
thats why i was sayng you should relook at the feats and compare with other classes feats
as GWF lost his known abilities from mod 1 until now.
GWF were great at the begining because he could stack alot of HP + regen , makin him special, with time passing he lost that difference that he had against other classes as he isn't the only class that can reach 40k hp, now every class can get that hp, except GF that can reach more than 60k HP .
so then again you keep being an ignorant and sayn Intimidation = Assailnt.
not to say to use intimidation you need r9-10 Radiants = 18k gs pvp gwf(so for newcommers this build is impossible) against a PVE CW with 14k GS , i wonder who will win.
bTW : deepgash it's 20% out of how much power you have, and let's asume you have 10000 POWER = 2000 damage that means 2000 / 6 = 333 damage for 6 seconds until it reaches 2000 damage, and to use DEEPgash you need to crit, and on the build you dont have crit, ntz ntz.. cool DOT for a GWF when a HR does 1k 1k 1k 1k 1kDOT.
How ridiculous it is now pvp with stuns, i'm really disappointed how my class now it is.
Takedown don't fall down, no animation,no Prones, COMBOs are not longer possible
Okey, i agreed when you reduce the DAMAGE overall from GWF,
But PLEASE bring back Prones!
At the first times, i didn't notice how essential Prones are for GWF.
I would say it is just as important as Unstoppable itself.
prones is really necessary for the class gwf.
As main GWF i would accept lower Unstoppable changes ! or DMG Reduce (this really break my heart but. ok)
Just for bringen back PRONES. (as you see I am despair)
come on this sprint animation makes the class even more unplayable, whose horrible idea was that to change it into this sh. show me that person ill slap him/her right away
GWFs still hit hard but cannot stand in your face and swing away (at least Destroyers can't) and to me this is balanced. For too long GWFs had the best of both worlds. Best/second best DPS? Check. Best survivability? Check. It was just too good to be true. The base tankiness had to go. You can still get back there with a Sentinel, but at the expense of DPS, which is fine. The fact that my 14k PVP/PVE hybrid Destroyer was outperforming my 16k PVP GF in PVP was concerning.
I would consider rolling Takedown back to a stun though.
GF is new GWF, more tanking/burst (and with godamn target dash) than mod3 GWF.
Come on Takedown whitout a Prone is a Joke (and not a funny one)
Please consider that again, Prones are very essential for GWF.
I would like to Spend more, into my character but
i can't if i'm not sure how this changes will continues.
because as "Iron Vanguard Sentinel" we got already the lowest dmg of all fighters Skill builds.
this is why Sentinel needs chance to survive and a possibility to catch enemies.
i think this is a really good idea for a real balancing of Gwf. Everything else can be left as it is.
The separation between offensive and defensive of GWF its sure the right way but we can improve it a bit.
High dmg whit a lower resistance and no prone as destroyer swordmaster
Lower dmg whit bether resistance and 1 prone as sentinel Vanguard
this would be support the changes.
Don't change Destroyer for PvP. Let it like that, as a PvE DPS Tree. Sentinel is Tank PvP/PvE Tree.
If we wanted to have a GWF who deals damages and who is viable in PvP, then there is another Tree exactly for it : Instigator. This is why this Tree HAS TO BE REWORKED.
When it will be its turn, I'll expect a rework into a glasscanon/highburst with DR piercing/crit, with high mobility, few controls, high burst (with DR Reduces, true damages, passing deflection for example), but sucks in tanking.
Actually Destroyer has Sprint or even Punishing Charge but Punishing Charge doesn't give control immune (and Mighty Leap ... Mighty Leap ...)
My propositions to make Instigator viable :
P.S : for the damages changes of a Encounter ect, let's say the GWF affected has 8k power.
T1 : Student of the Sword :
Your critical strikes lower your target's DR to your attacks by 1/2/3/4/5% for 5 seconds. This effect does not stack.
Before the nerf, it could stack 3 times. It was a lot because the old GWF had damages and tanking. But now he must choose between damages and tanking. This Tree should be pvp damages. So this must get a little change, but not against squishy classes (would be too much), but against Tanky classes.
Your critical strikes lower your ACTUAL target's DR to your attacks by 2/4/6/8/10 % for 5 seconds. Block and Unstoppable also count.
For a CW for example, if he has 30% DR, the reduce will be 3%.
Less than the actual, but it's better, if Instigator were reworked, the feat would be a little bit too powerfull against low DR, but still not good against high DR (GWF Sentinel, GF ...).
The point is to nerf it a bit against squishies classes and buff it against tank, to have an equal chance.
For example, a GWF Sentinel should have between 80% (around 40% without unstoppable) and 120% DR (but not really true, I don't really know how does it work).So a Sentinel GWF will see his 120% DR reduced to 108 (10% of 120 --> -12%).
Fleet Footed :
Whenever you control a target, you gain an additional 3/6/9/12/15% Run Speed for 3 seconds.
This feat can be really good to catch someone, but in fact, it's bad. What's the point of gaining Run Speed when your target is controlled, so she can't move ? GWF'd rather gaining this Run Speed after the controls affect himself. This feat also encourages being a glasscanon with high mobility/burst but being really squishy.
Whenever you are controlled, you gain an additional 3/6/9/12/15% Run Speed for 3 seconds.
This change allows GWF to approach his target a little bit easier. You can think it can be broken, but in fact, not that much, he'll still take the controls, and damages. GWF can play with more skill with this change : he can permuting Sprint or not, to take a little control like Slow, to gain the Run Speed and then Sprints.
Vicious Advantage : Combat Advantage now grants an additional 1/2/3/4/5% Crit chance and damages.
This. With the Instigator changes I propose, it's perfectly fine.
Stunning Flourish :
Flourish has an extra chance 1/2/3/4/5% to crit and stuns for 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1 second on last hit.
Flourish stuns longer. Aw. If we kept this feat and buffed it, it would be overpowered (enjoy the 4 seconds stun). With the Instigator changes, Flourish would have too much Critical chance.
Flourish now gains an additional of X/X/X/X/X range (a very little buff of range, no worries) and now gives a control immunity while casting, but you take 1/2/3/4/5% more damage during this time.
You can think it can be overpowered. But in fact, no. Actually Flourish has a big cast time, can be interrupted, and easily dodgeable. This feat compensates it by buffing a very little bit the range, and gives control immunity during the cast (like Crescendo/Spinning Strike), but you take more damage during this time. Flourish would still be easily dodgeable because of his cast time and obvious animation.
The little buff of range helps more and control immunity on this long animation is a must GWF had to have since start of the game. Now, a GWF who slots Flourish, is dangerous. Now, an ennemy, instead of obviously using a control to never let you using this power, must dodge/block/run.
It would not be broken. Why ? An Instigator GWF is a highburst in melee, but squishy, not tanky. And when he's near to you, he should be really dangerous.
P.S : stun duration lowered to 2 seconds from 3 seconds (it would be broken for rotations).
Or the IV feat :
Frontline Surge deals 1/2/3/4/5% more damages and (now stuns) ennemies for 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1 sec more.
Once again, remove stun. 4 seconds stun, too much.
Frontline Surge deals 3/6/9/12/15% more damages.
With the recent high damages nerf of Frontline Surge, 15% more damages seems legit for Instigator. It would be, around +250-300 damages (actually the damages are 1800-2100). Not a lot, but it's AoE, in range.
Nimble Runner :
Sprint and Punishing Charge now grants 2/4/6/8/10% deflect chance.
Sprint needn't. It is already good (or almost too much good, 30% DR is maybe a little bit too high). Punishing Charge should have Control Immunity, but it would be "Never CCed GWF" with the actual Sprint.
Punishing Charge now grants 3/6/9/12/15% more deflect chance and deals 4/8/12/16/20% more damages.
P.S : Punishing Charge : 3 charges, but the damages are between 800-1100, +20%, it means +160-220.
This change would recompensate the players who calculate when they'd take high damages, and/or if they want to engage/escape more quickly than Sprint, but without Control Immunity, this is why they must use it at the right time (Oh god, is GWF becoming a skilled class ?). One thing which would be good, is to change the Punishing Charge animation (GWF rising his Weapon like he wants to be Immune/Protected) into THE OLD Sprint animation (it would be so beautiful)
Little change to do : making Punishing Charge a little bit more responsive when he casts and when the animation ends.
Allied Opportunity :
Mighty Leap and Not So Fast deals an additional of 2/4/6/8/10% damages and you and your allies gain Combat Advantage against the damaged target for 1/1.5/2/2.5/3 seconds.
This feat gives Combat Advantage, a good synergy with Vicious Advantage. But, the damages buffs are a little bit too low (check base damages, Mighty Leap --> around 1400-1600, Not So Fast around 1800-2200) and the Combat Advantage Duration is too short because ennemies can kite, run, dodge, control you and waste this time easily.
Mighty Leap deals an additional of 10/20/30/40/50% damages and Not So fast 10/15/20/25/30% damages you and your allies gain Combat Advantage against the damaged target for 0.8/1.6/2.4/3.2/4 seconds.
50% more damages of around 1900 (max base damage) means +900, so 2700. For Mighty Leap, a jump, not a lot, but not bad. For Not So fast, 30% of 2200 (max damage) means 660, so 2860, not that much, not that bad, because : melee with just a little slow. But with 10 seconds CD. Perfect damages with perfect mechanics, don't you think ? The Combat Advantage is 1 second longer, not that much, 4 seconds, the ennemies have the time to dodge, or run, or control etc but they must take care.
If you think it's still too short, there are other ways to get Combat Advantage, and Not So Fast CD is 10 seconds, and Mighty Leap is 12 seconds.
Group Assault : Wicked Strike now deals an additional 1/2/3/4/5% for each target hit.
Good for PvE, but in fact, not really, because the damages are reduced in the exactly same mechanic. So this is a good for a bad, the feat is finally not worth. You know what will I change
Group Assault : Wicked Strike now deals an additional 1/2/3/4/5% for each target hit and the damages are not reduced anymore for each target you hit beyond the first.
A better Wicked Strike, and would be good with the Artifact Weapon for PvE or even PvP (but I don't think personally).
Crippling Strike : Spinning Strike and Avalanche of Steel now slow your target for 10/20/30/40/50%.
Can be good for some situations. But the point is Avalanche of Steel slow is not good (slow after prone, but i'm not sure).
Crippling Strike : Spinning Strike now slow your target for 10/20/30/40/50%, and Avalanche of Steels now Slow your target while you are in the air by 10/15/20/25/30%. Slam can now crit.
Avalanche of Steel was easily dodgeable with dodges, and even without when there were 2 or more people and you wanted to hit them all. Now Avalanche of Steel slows while you are in the air, which makes the Daily dangerous because it's less easily dodgeable (but still). And Slam which crits, this is more a fix than a buff, because it always had to crit. Giving the crit Slam in this feat, why not ?
To fix : Spinning Strike OFTEN doesn't give Control Immune while using it.
Final Feat :
Instigator's Vengeance : Your damage is increased by 12%, but taking direct damage will disable this bonus for 3 seconds.
The thing is you always take damages, you're a GWF, you take damages to approach your ennemies. In very rare cases you will keep this buff.
Instigator's Vengeance : Your damage is increased by 15 %, but taking direct damage will divide this bonus by 2 for 3 seconds. In addition, 8% of your damages ignore your target DR.
Giving more damages to GWFs who come at the right time, or have a good positioning, is a thing to keep. Taking damages now doesn't disable the feat, it now doesn't make the feat totally useless (and not broken, 7.5% more damages or 15%, Destroyer in PvE has permanently +40% more damages, in PvP it depends). 8% of GWF's damages ignoring target's DR, it means, for a 5k Encounter, he deals 400 TRUE damages (not that much). It means if he killed someone alone, with 30k HP (including regeneration/lifesteal/artifact), he dealt 2400 TRUE damages (not a lot, but this is good).
It is now a real Final Feat for Instigator.
The reasons of these changes are actual Instigator is really bad but has a good potential. Those buffs are not "damnly broken buffs". It wouldn't make the actual IBS/Crescendo or any other combo "Broken", no. These changes give chances to GWFs to have other Encounter/At-Wills/Dailies good (Wicked Strike, Punishing Charge, Spinning Strike, Avalanche of Steel, Slam, Not So Fast) and with new Builds. It would make the GWF player calculating when they should use their power, alternating Sprint and their powers, like Punishing Charge/Mighty Leap, and not the thing you hate "Mod 3 GWF"
This would make the glasscanon GWF viable, but not broken, because he'd stay squishy, easily killable in rotations, the fight now would depend of the skill between GWF and the ennemy.
Feedback: Devs PLS 1Prone on encounter for GWF is needed at least.
for Frontline Surge as Sentinel or Takedown!
give us a chance to catch enemies,
Currently with this skills are the fail rate over 80%
I think turning Takedown into a Prone is fair. My GF has one prone so I think it is only fair that the GWF gets one. BUT, on the condition that it loses the cooldown buff from the Relentless Battle Fury feat.
I'd honestly support rolling it back to a permanent at-will, seeing as how other tweaks have ensured the GWF is not the immortal spam-king of devastating powers. No damage boost, but no longer a charge-based power. Would have to test this though, as due to the GWF's increased Sprint stamina it could be that a GWF will never ever stay still, either sprinting or rushing around, and thus very difficult to escape and target.
The Paragons are not supposed to be equals. One is a tanking path, the other is a DPS path. You should not get the same benefits from both. 20% seems a little much. Maybe add a boosted debuff to Staying Power.
No. Deep Gash is a Tier 1 feat and what you say is far too powerful for a Tier 1 feat. Remember, Deep Gash was originally nerfed because it was doing far too much damage for a feat that all 3 paths could choose. People were complaining about Sentinels because they were tanky and doing massive damage thanks to Deep Gash.
Same as Deep Gash, no. This was already nerfed because Sentinels were taking it with Deep Gash and doing huge amounts of damage. The rest of the Instigator tree needs to be looked at to make it better, but over-buffing a Tier 1 feat that all 3 paths can get is not the right way.
Fair request to improve Determination gain a little. Hell no to your proposed Unstoppable Recovery. Like Deep Gash and Student of the Sword, this is a Tier 1 feat and allowing it to recover 50% of your health is madness. Destroyers with this and improved Determination gain would just be stupid.
No. Not even the GFs guard 100% mitigates damage, so I don't know why the GWF should get immunity from damage. Factor in your proposed Unstoppable Recovery buff and faster Determination gain and Destroyer GWFs will once again become the kings of PVP and pretty much indestructible.
As far as I know, the only base damage changes were done to Frontline Surge and Threatening Rush, everything else was left alone. Same goes for defense, they haven't nerfed anything with regards to your defensive stat or armour. If you feel soft it is because you cannot use Unstoppable like a crutch anymore. The days of standing in red or in front of 2-3 players and killing everything are over. GWFs need to do what they always should have done; use their mobility to deal damage. Re-position yourself to avoid the heavy blows of your enemy and not just sit in red AOEs.
Well that is why I said a chargeless TR should be tested with the new Sprint, but the more I think about it the more I agree with what you said. It will be a terrible idea.
We can all agree that the GWF was heavily nerfed in a number of areas, so giving a little back in one or two of those areas may not be such a bad thing.
The nerfs to TR and FLS damage should ensure that SM does more damage. I can personally attest to the fact that Flourish is vastly superior to FLS in terms if single target DPS as I tested the two on my own GWF.
Threatening Rush - when will the lack of Marks be fixed? This has been broken since a week or two before launch.
Sentinel needs some love, guys. GF's can do more DPS in their tank spec and tank better in DPS spec than we can DPS *or* tank in a Sentinel spec. While I support us not being in the same caliber of tankiness, I do think the DPS is a bit sub par. In a Sentinel build with tanking level gear, I see maybe... a 20-30% increase in survivability. This is fine, as we are a light mobility tank, although I think our DR took a little too much of a hit in Sentinel (although part of this may be capstone bugginess, TBD) but we do, at best, 40-50% of Destro DPS. If we're lucky.
We shouldn't take *quite* the hit on DPS we do in exchange for the marginal increase in survivability we receive in Sentinel (although threat increase is, IMHO, "decent'ish" - again, some slight breakage in class skills - TR only Marks a single target impacts significantly for example).
When I say "at best 40-50% of Destro build", I really need to explain that in more detail. Testing in a vacuum - ie, just against parsing dummies, etc - I do just at 40% of my Destro build. That is to say, if I pull about 11k on dummies in destro, I'm seeing a shade over 4k in Senti.
In the real world, it's really closer to 15-20%. ON AVERAGE, in a dragon HE, I'll pull between 14-18K DPS. 18k DPS burst in short fights, 14-15k(ish) in sustained fights.
Going with the low end of 14K, vis a vis my open world tanking parses, I pull 3-4K. Tops.
Understand, I am NOT lobbying that GWF should be uberbuffed, etc etc etc. However, what I *am* saying is - there is no compelling reason *why* we should spec into the Sentinel tree unless you plan on spending 100% of your time in delves/dungeon runs, and even then - if you're really really good, you can just about be as effective DPS spec'd with some gear shuffle, and do 2-3 times the damage. It is nigh unto impossible to use this spec in open world PVE to solo, as the limited increase in survival is far overshadowed by the *massive* reduction in DPS. As an example - 9 minutes to do a Totem of Auril. And I'm having to use pots. DPS spec - Couple minutes tops, never touch a pot.
While on test, prior to Mod 4 launching, I did about 60% of my Destroyer build DPS, with about the same amount of survivability as what went live. This "felt" fairly close to where it should be dialed in. If I'm getting a 20-30% increase in tankiness, and some threat management tools, then yeah - I should see a penalty in damage dealt. But not a 2/3 reduction in damage output for a 1/3 increase in survivability.
Ultimately, as stated, there is NO compelling reason to go Sentinel.
I *like* playing hybrid tanks. What I'm ultimately hope for, as the (hopefully) continue to balance the class, is to bump things up a bit here to make this happen. And give us a better method of spec switching on Live than throwing 78K away each time
That, and for gods sake, fix the Instigator tree for PVP usage.
Thanks.
Cthon
Make sprint start and stop an instant animation similar to punishing charge burst, with only difference that the lenght is not fixed but determined by how long you press a button. Right now it lags. The animation starts but you get cced. Make it instant and precise to better time dodges, if you can
Like SW no ?
My suggestion: short prone on Frontline, long prone on Takedown.
Flourish needs faster animation or CC immunity on cast.
Bravery needs it old 15% deflect back.
Takedown needs it prone and dmg back.
Steel Blitz need higher % activation chance and dmg.
Frontline Surge needs it dmg back.
GWF should get 2-3% dmg per STR point
come on devs we re stuck with 2k base dmg encounters unless we pick destroyer tree.
True but unstoppable right now is laughable...50% hp lost roughly for 8 seconds during which you can be kited.
Also, remember that sprint is to close the gap too. So it's not 7 dodges cause the whole stamina must be used for BOTH gap closing and defensive movement. Improved response/ instant burst just allows a gwf to exactly know the immunity frames.
Devs justified the unstoppable nerf and sprint changes to 'bring sprint in line with other shift moves'. Being responsive is a part of being 'in line'.
I'd prefer keeping the actual Sprint and rework Unstoppable into a CC cleanse when activated, a DR removed but with more Sprint (or even infinite) and the next Encounter ameliorated (or even both when using Unstoppable)."Rage" like a barbarian.