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Control Wizard Feedback - Discussions

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  • iambecks1iambecks1 Member Posts: 4,044 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I thought damage went way up when I logged on after the patch to try to figure out what had changed but it was very late/early so I didn't test properly , pretty obviously it is some bug .
    YourSecretsAreOurSecrets.gif
  • cerberobotcerberobot Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 345
    edited August 2014
    I swear every nerf ends up a buff in this game.
    except TR/GWF.
  • isuuck2isuuck2 Member Posts: 491 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    Feedback: CW


    - looks to be quite balanced finally
    - Severe Reaction is finally doing a proper job
    - Orb of Imposition comes at a SEVERE loss of DPS and it is FINALLY functioning properly; it is a tradeoff - DPS for CC
    - Storm Spell makes up for some lost DPS which is good - we need single target DPS


    Conclusion:

    People here fought underpowered CWs for AGES. It is time for CW to take its deserved place in PvP - even if this sadly means that the class no longer takes too much skill to play.
    People here got used to kill CWs easily.
    People here got used to think of CW as pure support while their classes were able to kill AND survive a the same time (HR, TR and GWF).

    It is time for perceptions to change.

    Learn to respect and fear the wizards.

    You are absolutely not trading anything for anything, you dont need anymore dps class features to function. All you need is assailant force. tell me your in game name so you can 1v1 me and show me how i should fear you.
  • magiquepursemagiquepurse Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    isuuck2 wrote: »
    You are absolutely not trading anything for anything, you dont need anymore dps class features to function. All you need is assailant force. tell me your in game name so you can 1v1 me and show me how i should fear you.

    Are you gonna pop that double CC immune daily on me, grow large and prance around with your shield?

    Good.

    You have the means to counter CW. Congratulations. You have no reasons to complain.

    Please nerf GF until CW is better even if GF has DC artifact.

    There we go, all fine.
  • loboguildloboguild Member Posts: 2,371 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    abaddon523 wrote: »
    Feedback: Storm Spell

    Boosting Storm Spell proc frequency and damage so significantly was a mistake. Here is a parse of me doing the Heroic Encounter Undead Invasion solo in Dwarven Valley. It took 5 minutes, 13 seconds. I cleared it with no trouble whatsoever. My DPS was 37,587 which is about the same as what I can do on live. 43.7% of that damage was from Storm Spell (the picture shows 41,035 DPS and 40% damage from storm spell, but that includes my healing from lifesteal as "damage").

    2cffle0.jpg

    This is about what I was expecting as well. On dummies (3 targets) I was doing 26k DPS already. I thought that the damage level for PVE AoE was absolutely fine and Storm Spell buff completely blew this out of proportion.

    As you can see, Assailant still doesn't benefit from damage multipliers.
  • sygfried94sygfried94 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 264 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    isuuck2 wrote: »
    You are absolutely not trading anything for anything, you dont need anymore dps class features to function. All you need is assailant force. tell me your in game name so you can 1v1 me and show me how i should fear you.

    Even when i posted you to stop melanging thing to come here complain. you continue.
    I will explain you again CW canno't be all at once.
    For exemple assaillant is 1 chance every 20 hit to proc. so to speak in a normal config normal spell it is around proc once every minut on a single target. to up this we need to use over time spell: icy terrain, conduct of ice or master of flame power and that all. the only spell here that can provide control is icy terrain. ice conduct can stack ice lvl when on tab but canno't freeze (and only on tab).
    Entrengling force is special as is overtime damage depend of the resist control of target + it do nothing no damage on a CC immun target. when a CW launch that you only need to up shield to block it quite easy task if you start play sharp and up and down your shield to save your bar

    So except icy terrain that can actually provide damage and control (but his weakness is quite easy to find). it always a trade when we slot spell between damage, control, and defense + also if we want to push control higher we need to goes opressor mean no assaillant.

    But on the summ of all what is making with your GF an harder life against CW is no assaillant no change, the only thing is the fact that they correct the bug about the DR ignore from all distant spell of CW. IF they correct that and you play on live again a CW without any other change you will already feel difference as this bug was a real problem for CW when we face a high DR oponen as GWF and GF. with this bug a good geared CW see his damage cut by 5 while without bug it merely cut by 2
  • cryptfoundationcryptfoundation Member Posts: 342 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Feedback: CW

    People here fought underpowered CWs for AGES. It is time for CW to take its deserved place in PvP - even if this sadly means that the class no longer takes too much skill to play.
    People here got used to kill CWs easily.
    People here got used to think of CW as pure support while their classes were able to kill AND survive a the same time (HR, TR and GWF).

    It is time for perceptions to change.

    Learn to respect and fear the wizards.
    [/COLOR]

    This a pure butthurt. Not to be rude but do you understand you're supposed to be easy to kill? You're right about the single target DPS being good but nobody is supposed to fear you because you're a glass cannon... All respect goes to the wizard because a PVP match should rely on who has the wizard and the cleric and not who can stack the most GWFs and who can create a BiS unkillable ranger.
  • abaddon523abaddon523 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    iambecks1 wrote: »
    I thought damage went way up when I logged on after the patch to try to figure out what had changed but it was very late/early so I didn't test properly , pretty obviously it is some bug .

    It's not a bug. It is working as intended. They said they were going to increase the proc rate from 10% to 35% and were doubling the damage. I told them immediately after that it was going to increase the damage 7x and would be way too big a buff. Now that it has been implemented, that is exactly what happened. It needs to be dialed back.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • midnightfang93midnightfang93 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    iambecks1 wrote: »
    I thought damage went way up when I logged on after the patch to try to figure out what had changed but it was very late/early so I didn't test properly , pretty obviously it is some bug .

    These should be the CW changes from the past yesterday: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=8567751&viewfull=1#post8567751

    Since there are no patch notes, can't confirm if anything else changed as well.
  • meldan3nmeldan3n Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014

    - Orb of Imposition comes at a SEVERE loss of DPS and it is FINALLY functioning properly; it is a tradeoff - DPS for CC
    - Storm Spell makes up for some lost DPS which is good - we need single target DPS

    This. Especially the first point. Eye of the Storm is a must-have for a Spellstorm Mage. Now you have the choice: control or damage. If you don't take Orb of Imposition, you have very weak/short control. With the powerful Storm Spell you practically choose decent damage over control. Not exactly what we needed, but an option.
  • isuuck2isuuck2 Member Posts: 491 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    Are you gonna pop that double CC immune daily on me, grow large and prance around with your shield?

    Good.

    You have the means to counter CW. Congratulations. You have no reasons to complain.

    Please nerf GF until CW is better even if GF has DC artifact.

    There we go, all fine.

    i dont have the means to guard myself from a control wizard, so i need dailies to do it. So what? you will still get destroyed by me because i am me.
  • ph33rm3ph33rm3 Member Posts: 549 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Now that the latest changes are up on the Preview Server (Without patch notes) and I've had a chance to test them I find that even with Storm spell and Eye of the Storm, my damage is still lower than live. Albeit, not by a lot. My renegade is still dead but thaum is actually viable again. If these changes remain, I may continue playing this game after all.
  • magiquepursemagiquepurse Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    isuuck2 wrote: »
    i dont have the means to guard myself from a control wizard, so i need dailies to do it. So what? you will still get destroyed by me because i am me.

    Then it is all GOOD! It was all I was trying to say.

    GF>>>>CW.

    All fine folks, no more stress, no more need for GF posts to nerf CW.

    GFs just want to kill CWs even easier.
  • infiltratorinfiltrator Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    isuuck2 wrote: »
    because i am me.
    Dont worry bro , looking at your name I have not the slightest doubt that you are what you claim to be.
  • letojarred1letojarred1 Member Posts: 306 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Feedback : Master of Flame / Spellstorm Mage

    Ok upon further testing i have come to the conclusion that Mof is as it should be,excluding FtF the cooldown of which needs to be reduce from 22 secs to 16 secs, and Spellstorm is a bit overpowered. I would suggest for the Proc rate of Storm spell to be set at 25%, or its damage reduced by 35%. That will balance it to more normal levels and will make Cw one of the most balanced and versatile class,excluding the Renegade tree which still needs some love and Shard of Endless Avalanche that needs a buff in damage.

    if avalanche is buff then our loadouts will be still the same. Why bother rework the class in the first place? :D
    StrawberryCheesecake TR
    BlackberryCheesecake CW
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    CheeseCake House :o
  • relativityrelativity Member Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    if avalanche is buff then our loadouts will be still the same. Why bother rework the class in the first place? :D

    If Arcane Enhencement at lvl 3 was at least as good as blighting power we would have bit more damage of Shard. And since Devs forgot that there are CWs who'd rather go Arcane then Chill way, let us remind them that arcane powers need some attention, too.

    Actually to think of it, Renegades use mostly arcane powers : RoE, ST (both buffed by feat), magic missile. It is really frustrating to discover another nail in renegade's coffin. Module 4 looks like favouring chill CWs, oppressors and thaumas.

    Show some love to Renegades and Arcane Powers, will ya?
    Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
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    And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
  • yperkeimenosyperkeimenos Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    if avalanche is buff then our loadouts will be still the same. Why bother rework the class in the first place? :D

    Because i take into consideration the skill,time and difficulty needed to cast and push the Shard,which means that its damage is way lower when compared to the above mentioned. Anyway no need to argue over this as the Devs have made it crystal clear that shard stays as is.
    It's BUGS bunny i tell you.
  • meldan3nmeldan3n Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Just want to post this here in this thread so the Devs see it:



    This needs to be fixed before going live, and there's not much time left.

    Where did you get these numbers? 2 sec? On the ACT sheets, you see Storm Spell deal between 2k and 6k damage. Now, this number minus Defence, Tenacity, Deflection, Boons, etc. makes up for the fact the a CW using it has zero control.

    Keep in mind that a CW using Storm Spell has absolutely no control! A Storm Spell CW is basically a Renegade 2.0 on Thaum path. Everyone can just walk out of your CC since it just lasts a fraction of a second (Entangling, Icy Rays, Chill Strike stun, Repel doesn't work, Shard cannot be placed on anyone's head because of the very short Entangling, etc.).
  • xmousepadxxmousepadx Member Posts: 381 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    19:07] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Storm Spell deals 6966 (13852) Lightning Damage to HAMSTER.
    That was a CW with purple shield on. Take 2 times that cuz of the doubleproccs and u look at 28k dmg on 1 ray of frost tick.

    Edit: no one needs control when you are able to nuke everything in 2-4sec.
  • meldan3nmeldan3n Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    xmousepadx wrote: »
    19:07] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Storm Spell deals 6966 (13852) Lightning Damage to HAMSTER.
    That was a CW with purple shield on. Take 2 times that cuz of the doubleproccs and u look at 28k dmg on 1 ray of frost tick.

    Edit: no one needs control when you are able to nuke everything in 2-4sec.

    Yep, that's not supposed to happen. :confused:
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    meldan3n wrote: »
    Where did you get these numbers? 2 sec? On the ACT sheets, you see Storm Spell deal between 2k and 6k damage. Now, this number minus Defence, Tenacity, Deflection, Boons, etc. makes up for the fact the a CW using it has zero control.

    Keep in mind that a CW using Storm Spell has absolutely no control! A Storm Spell CW is basically a Renegade 2.0 on Thaum path. Everyone can just walk out of your CC since it just lasts a fraction of a second (Entangling, Icy Rays, Chill Strike stun, Repel doesn't work, Shard cannot be placed on anyone's head because of the very short Entangling, etc.).
    Lots of ACT parses in this thread:

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?725611-CW-stormspell-is-out-of-control

    Looks like SS is well and truly broken since the last patch.
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  • abaddon523abaddon523 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    xmousepadx wrote: »
    19:07] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Storm Spell deals 6966 (13852) Lightning Damage to HAMSTER.
    That was a CW with purple shield on. Take 2 times that cuz of the doubleproccs and u look at 28k dmg on 1 ray of frost tick.

    Edit: no one needs control when you are able to nuke everything in 2-4sec.

    Storm Spell has a 35% chance to proc, currently. It can proc on both damage and on the application of chill for Ray of Frost (which is probably not as it should be). The probability of one tick of Ray of Frost damage to proc two storm spells is 12.25%.

    I'm a CW with 7k+ power. Storm Spell does between 2100 and 3800 non-crit damage. With a Perfect Vorpal it will do 4725-8550 damage. To get up to 13852 damage that CW would have had to have used a high vizier debuff (which would not be activated by Ray of Frost). But that still only gets it up to 11115 so other effects would still need to be in effect, like Ray of Enfeeblement.

    Basically CW would need to be using several other spells and effects in conjunction with Ray of Frost, would need to have huge amount of power (which most PvP CW's don't), would need to sacrifice all tenacity gear to get the High Vizier debuff, and it would still have a very small probability of happening even with this confluence of circumstances. Throw in that it would only do the hypothetical damage against an enemy with 0 defense, tenacity, and deflect. With a substantial amount of each of those the damage wouldn't be nearly as bad.

    I could pick an ability of any class and make a case that with a critical hit, perfect vorpal, debuffs, 0 defense, 0 deflect, and 0 tenacity that it just does TOOOO MUCH DAMAGE!!!

    Let's keep the criticisms realistic and useful.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • sygfried94sygfried94 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 264 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    xmousepadx wrote: »
    19:07] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Storm Spell deals 6966 (13852) Lightning Damage to HAMSTER.
    That was a CW with purple shield on. Take 2 times that cuz of the doubleproccs and u look at 28k dmg on 1 ray of frost tick.

    Edit: no one needs control when you are able to nuke everything in 2-4sec.

    if it true i just would like to have it just one day on live server just for the pleasure to see the other class player running on the other side than actually when they see a CW in the pvp map
  • hamletswordshamletswords Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,320 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    abaddon523 wrote: »
    Storm Spell has a 35% chance to proc, currently. It can proc on both damage and on the application of chill for Ray of Frost (which is probably not as it should be). The probability of one tick of Ray of Frost damage to proc two storm spells is 12.25%.

    I'm a CW with 7k+ power. Storm Spell does between 2100 and 3800 non-crit damage. With a Perfect Vorpal it will do 4725-8550 damage. To get up to 13852 damage that CW would have had to have used a high vizier debuff (which would not be activated by Ray of Frost). But that still only gets it up to 11115 so other effects would still need to be in effect, like Ray of Enfeeblement.

    Basically CW would need to be using several other spells and effects in conjunction with Ray of Frost, would need to have huge amount of power (which most PvP CW's don't), would need to sacrifice all tenacity gear to get the High Vizier debuff, and it would still have a very small probability of happening even with this confluence of circumstances. Throw in that it would only do the hypothetical damage against an enemy with 0 defense, tenacity, and deflect. With a substantial amount of each of those the damage wouldn't be nearly as bad.

    I could pick an ability of any class and make a case that with a critical hit, perfect vorpal, debuffs, 0 defense, 0 deflect, and 0 tenacity that it just does TOOOO MUCH DAMAGE!!!

    Let's keep the criticisms realistic and useful.

    "Only" get 11k damage from a passive trait with a 35% chance to apply?

    C'mon guys you can't seriously be defending this. You're lucky because nobody is going to talk about starting fights with 6 seconds of crits from EOTS while this is killing people in seconds.

    Even if they revert the change entirely CW is still going to be strong as hell, and they aren't going to do that.

    And bollocks on the "if you slot stormspell you have NO control". You just don't have insane control. If you want to talk about no control try HR.

    Looks like I have no choice really but to dust off my CW for mod4. Sucks because I spent so much on artifacts and time on my HR but really looks like there's no reason to play any other class but CW for mod4. At least other classes had PVP in mod3.
    My Harem: Dawn HR, Erin CW, Piper TR, Zoe GWF
  • cerberobotcerberobot Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 345
    edited August 2014
    "Only" get 11k damage from a passive trait with a 35% chance to apply?

    C'mon guys you can't seriously be defending this. You're lucky because nobody is going to talk about starting fights with 6 seconds of crits from EOTS while this is killing people in seconds.

    Even if they revert the change entirely CW is still going to be strong as hell, and they aren't going to do that.

    Looks like I have no choice really but to dust off my CW for mod4. Sucks because I spent so much on artifacts and time on my HR but really looks like there's no reason to play any other class but CW for mod4. At least other classes had PVP in mod3.

    Looks like every CW are defending their class even when they are completely broken.

    And still ask for GWF nerf.
  • freshourfreshour Member Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    http://s24.postimg.org/o61dqw8k5/LOL.jpg

    Lol.... Guys. I don't want Crush to be the one to come up with the nerf. But just look at the test server. There was three other people that I couldn't fit, two more cw's and an hr...

    This stuff is so broken it is silly guys. Two CW's took me from 47k hp to 0 in less than 3 seconds. With at wills.... I know GF's can do a lot of damage but you could literally cut the damage in half... maybe even 1/4... and I would still die. but in around 10 seconds lol.

    I get it, I'm a GF, I am QQ'ing and superz wants you to be nerfed.... NO - if I did I'd say nothing and let crush do it and you'd be unplayable for 3 mods (Like the GF)...

    Instead, I am saying, SUGGEST TO FIX IT YOURSELVES, make it a good fix, more like a mod 3 cw which took some skill but could do WORK if you knew how to use shard, that thing took so much dang skill... IDK

    You're call, just saying, either you suggest it and it is playable, or Crush does it and goes bye bye bye
  • yperkeimenosyperkeimenos Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    cerberobot wrote: »
    Looks like every CW are defending their class even when they are completely broken.

    And still ask for GWF nerf.

    They are doing so because of some people crying for nerf, nerf, nerf like its some kind of litany. I never ask for other classes to be nerfed only for my own to be buffed. If i did it would be like asking for my neighbors house to burn down because i don't own one like it. Anyway it's all just smokescreen,you see the Devs aren't stupid. Of course they knew these changes to Storm Spell were over the top and I'm certain they already had a fix ready,which i'm sure we will see in the coming days. However all this hype is keeping people occupied and gives the Devs an idea on the level of interest for the game.
    It's BUGS bunny i tell you.
  • freshourfreshour Member Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    They are doing so because of some people crying for nerf, nerf, nerf like its some kind of litany. I never ask for other classes to be nerfed only for my own to be buffed. If i did it would be like asking for my neighbors house to burn down because i don't own one like it. Anyway it's all just smokescreen,you see the Devs aren't stupid. Of course they knew these changes to Storm Spell were over the top and I'm certain they already had a fix ready,which i'm sure we will see in the coming days. However all this hype is keeping people occupied and gives the Devs an idea on the level of interest for the game.

    You're right... I want your house to be remodeled and not burned down and take 3 mods to be rebuilt.

    "[Say] Queen Mouz 116@xmousepadx: :37] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Storm Spell deals 7308 (26397) Lightning Damage to _Dom_"

    Totallllly not broken
  • yperkeimenosyperkeimenos Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    freshour wrote: »
    You're right... I want your house to be remodeled and not burned down and take 3 mods to be rebuilt.

    "[Say] Queen Mouz 116@xmousepadx: :37] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Storm Spell deals 7308 (26397) Lightning Damage to _Dom_"

    Totallllly not broken

    Please reread my post and especially the part about the Devs having preplanned everything and the Hype that comes with it.
    It's BUGS bunny i tell you.
  • sygfried94sygfried94 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 264 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    freshour wrote: »
    http://s24.postimg.org/o61dqw8k5/LOL.jpg

    Lol.... Guys. I don't want Crush to be the one to come up with the nerf. But just look at the test server. There was three other people that I couldn't fit, two more cw's and an hr...

    This stuff is so broken it is silly guys. Two CW's took me from 47k hp to 0 in less than 3 seconds. With at wills.... I know GF's can do a lot of damage but you could literally cut the damage in half... maybe even 1/4... and I would still die. but in around 10 seconds lol.

    I get it, I'm a GF, I am QQ'ing and superz wants you to be nerfed.... NO - if I did I'd say nothing and let crush do it and you'd be unplayable for 3 mods (Like the GF)...

    Instead, I am saying, SUGGEST TO FIX IT YOURSELVES, make it a good fix, more like a mod 3 cw which took some skill but could do WORK if you knew how to use shard, that thing took so much dang skill... IDK

    You're call, just saying, either you suggest it and it is playable, or Crush does it and goes bye bye bye

    It's not CW player fault. When the beginning of this mess GC wrote to every Cw player and say that he will destroy CW, but in exchange he will grant us one wish. We all posted wish and the one that ended to be chosen is a power that can kill every one in less than 3 second. If you have forgotten to wrote your own wish don't come and complain there :).

    We are not spending energy to write about it since there is 99% that it won't goes in live like this and if it goes in 99.9% chance to get a fix withing the next two week.

    How ever fixing or not it sure that CW will no more only playing the bait in IWD. (yup i saw that in the first map of IWD two week ago. at the exit of the pvp map in IWD (the first map) one CW playing bait and 3 other players were hiding behind the hill)
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