Ty, good to know. Though madness "fix" made me feel even more depressed now.
Nah... it's ok this way.
Just try to forget about it's existance and all is fine )) However it's still good for boss fights though....as those last more then a minute for sure and sometimes it's essential to burst damage in this 10 seconds period of madness like useing dailies or most powerfull encounters.
It became more like tabletop, you know...when u roll high score and it's your lucky chance to inflict more damage this turn ))
guys if u get highest aoe and 1 target dps and the best utily and control wont this make cw ultimate class like it is since cb ?
if u want high 1 traget dps caster roll to warlock and your problem is solved what is the point of warlock class if cw will be able to easy out dps it ? name says controll wizard not dps one as for other mmos in none of them controll(ice )wizards can out dps dps (fire)wizards
so dont come here saying i taken controll wizard for dps when name says it is for controll
if cw were broken since cb it dose not mean it is ok to have 1 class the best in everything
guys if u get highest aoe and 1 target dps and the best utily and control wont this make cw ultimate class like it is since cb ?
if u want high 1 traget dps caster roll to warlock and your problem is solved what is the point of warlock class if cw will be able to easy out dps it ? name says controll wizard not dps one as for other mmos in none of them controll(ice )wizards can out dps dps (fire)wizards
so dont come here saying i taken controll wizard for dps when name says it is for controll
if cw were broken since cb it dose not mean it is ok to have 1 class the best in everything
I agree and since they are the Masters of CONTROL give Wizards 50 to 75% CC resistance penetration and tenacity penetration, reduce the duration of control abilities of all other classes by 50 to 75%(So they can't control as well as a CW), and give them 50% CC resistance(From none which they have now). Then and only then will a reduction in Damage output for Cws will have meaning,when Control becomes truly the Domain of CONTROL wizards. That way if you want Control go for a Wizard,instead of another class. Until that happens though cws need damage to survive, so no more crybabies,enough said.
guys if u get highest aoe and 1 target dps and the best utily and control wont this make cw ultimate class like it is since cb ?
if u want high 1 traget dps caster roll to warlock and your problem is solved what is the point of warlock class if cw will be able to easy out dps it ? name says controll wizard not dps one as for other mmos in none of them controll(ice )wizards can out dps dps (fire)wizards
so dont come here saying i taken controll wizard for dps when name says it is for controll
if cw were broken since cb it dose not mean it is ok to have 1 class the best in everything
I'd gladly give absolute Power to another class if I were given absolute CONTROL.
I thought the majority of PvP CW's ran Thaum Spec, and some Oppressor.
Anyway, it sounds to me like you are trying to use different builds the same way? Is Renegade more of a group debuff tree or AoE focused for group dynamic? That would justify a lower DPS output than a Burst Focused Tree no?
Renegade is/was pretty popular for PvP actually. And nobody has run Oppressor in PvP since Tenacity (too much control resist).
The original split for CW was Oppressor for control, Thaum for constant DPS with buff/debuff, and Renegade for crit-based bursty DPS. Now we have an upgraded control tree (Oppressor), a pure DPS tree (Thaum), and what's supposed to be a group buff/debuff tree in Renegade but is in fact just completely useless.
Since most CW players are used to playing DPS they're having their choice of tree restricted to just Thaum. Oppressor builds have some utility but with the changes to freeze I'm not sure it's going to be PvP viable as the DPS is pretty low.
As I main an MoF build specced primarily for TR hunting the nerf to Renegade doesn't affect me too much (I'll be running Thaum or Oppressor depending on more testing) but it's a shame to see a popular tree that required skill to make the most of effectively deleted.
It's not ideal, but it's certainly not unusual. Anyway is Oppressor really not that viable for PVP? Seems like people were using it and having success with it until they came out with Assailing force.
Since then they've only gotten buffs as far as I can tell- EOTS, Shield. Oppressor may not kill as fast but it should put out more CC, and CC is king in PVP.
Oppressor CC has been dialled back and Melee CC improved so the main advantage to the Oppressor tree has pretty much vanished. What's left is moderate CC with low-level DOT damage which is not going to cut it in PvP except for certain specialist MoF builds - and even then it could be marginal.
Shield has been buffed and then almost immediately nerfed so it remains to be seen what kind of impact that has. EotS buff is pretty ridonculous and I expect a nerf before it goes live. If not you are going to see rivers of QQ on here when CWs with the DC artifact kill any class in the first 6 seconds of every fight.
Yes, this is true. Hopefully the class that's been the tankiest, has had the highest damage, the most control and the greatest mobility throughout module 3 will be more balanced against CWs in module 4 so that CWs can enjoy PvP too.
its not like u cant now if anything it will be worse for u since gf is overbuffed to insane lvl so i guess he will be next to balme after gwf for your failure to do cw role in pvp and trying to go on 1vsv1 to take nodes
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
if u want high 1 traget dps caster roll to warlock and your problem is solved what is the point of warlock class if cw will be able to easy out dps it ?
The only point of the warlock is to sell more Zen. There is no other reason for it.
AoE damage = control.
Is Renegade more of a group debuff tree or AoE focused for group dynamic
All of a Renegades group buffs are gone now. The capstone, Chaos Magic, now only buffs the wizard, and 2 out of 3 of the possible effects are all but useless in the endgame.
All of a Renegades group buffs are gone now. The capstone, Chaos Magic, now only buffs the wizard, and 2 out of 3 of the possible effects are all but useless in the endgame.
Not true. Chaos Magic also buffs party members within 50'.
Then that's brand new. That's not what the tooltip said on test last night. Still, Chaotic Fury is the only useful one to decently geared characters, since we generally have our ArP and crit maxed, and don't have to micro-manage our healing.
Furthermore, in order to get Nightmare Wizardry (is this a group buff again too?) back it looks as though I have to spend 5 points buffing powers I won't use (Chilling Cloud or MoC) AND I have to take my 5 points out of Phantasmal Destruction or Arcane Masterful Theft, in order to get a slim chance to gain 10% lifesteal and power.
On test, I STILL can't respend the 5 points they took out, no matter where I try to put them.
Feedback: thoughts about some preview PvP
- CW seems in a slightly better off position, overall
- the damage from Thaum spec is decent and adequate; the DoTs roll off each other and proccing stuff on your targets is pretty fun
- survivability has increased new Shield to the point where it's (almost) adequate for a robe-wearing class
- CC is decent even outside Oppressor, Orb of Imposition is working quite fine
These are pretty much the good points. As for the bad points... they were expressed by other CWs before me:
- Assailant requires NO SKILL to land. Guaranteed 4K+ hit.
- Shield requires NO SKILL to use. Guaranteed tankyness.
- Shard, oh my god, shard. You completely, utterly destroyed it. I got hit for less that 2K on my HR. This is RIDICULOUS. Shard is a high risk, high reward encounter. BUFF IT UP to where it was (pvp only), nothing less.
So what you did is basically take the skill out of PvP CW. Now you shoot stuff at the opponent and stuff will proc other stuff that hurts. Same is true for Shield. Can you please give CW better ACTIVE protections?!? Not passive absorption/mitigation, we're not tanks?
Example: Feat: Frost Shield. After a successful dodge of an enemy encounter or daily, you become encased in ice for 0.5 secs absorbing 33/66/100% incoming damage.
To be honest, this is quite a lazy move when it comes to CWs. You have made it easy even for inexperienced people to perform adequately. This is not OK.
Suggestion:
Please reward SKILLFUL PLAY by bringing Shard/Mastery where it is today: a hard hitting CC - if it lands. What am I talking about, shard only hits really hard on squishies, if you spec for it and if you're geared.
Agree 100%. Honestly I dont know why they dont just build a damage stacking capstone like other classes have instead of this "proc chance" Assailing Force thing...
GWF - builds stacks while unstoppable for up to 50% Dmg boost
GF - Builds stacks when taking damage for 25% dmg and crit boost
HRs - Mark a target for (20%?) damage boost.
Give CWs a nice damage boost capstone, and bring back shard damage - it actually took skill to use....
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kieranmtornMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 382Arc User
edited August 2014
Yeah, but it's still a 5 feat point penalty. Let's face it the PVE buy in Renegade is essentially 21 points in mod3. In mod4 it will be 25 points to get the necessary feats (phantasmal destruction, nightmare wizardry, and master arcane theft). Assuming you still buy the capstone you looking at a 5 point disadvantage over Thaum or Oppressor.
The alternative T1 feat, is one of the basically bad ideas - using an at-will at point blank. Just the thing to get you nuked pointlessly.
While the buff to MoC is nice, it's still a skill with little real use (even with the fixes to it and bufs). It's buggy, and inferior to OF. It has some niche uses, but I see little point in feating a Daily of dubious utility. The only reason I can see to feat a daily skill is if you are going to use it, every other rotation. Add in the slow casting animation and the slow casting time (ie waiting for the targeting circle to appear...), it's not going to see much use with my 2 CW's.
Feedback: thoughts about some preview PvP
- CW seems in a slightly better off position, overall
- the damage from Thaum spec is decent and adequate; the DoTs roll off each other and proccing stuff on your targets is pretty fun
- survivability has increased new Shield to the point where it's (almost) adequate for a robe-wearing class
- CC is decent even outside Oppressor, Orb of Imposition is working quite fine
These are pretty much the good points. As for the bad points... they were expressed by other CWs before me:
- Assailant requires NO SKILL to land. Guaranteed 4K+ hit.
- Shield requires NO SKILL to use. Guaranteed tankyness.
- Shard, oh my god, shard. You completely, utterly destroyed it. I got hit for less that 2K on my HR. This is RIDICULOUS. Shard is a high risk, high reward encounter. BUFF IT UP to where it was (pvp only), nothing less.
So what you did is basically take the skill out of PvP CW. Now you shoot stuff at the opponent and stuff will proc other stuff that hurts. Same is true for Shield. Can you please give CW better ACTIVE protections?!? Not passive absorption/mitigation, we're not tanks?
Example: Feat: Frost Shield. After a successful dodge of an enemy encounter or daily, you become encased in ice for 0.5 secs absorbing 33/66/100% incoming damage.
To be honest, this is quite a lazy move when it comes to CWs. You have made it easy even for inexperienced people to perform adequately. This is not OK.
Suggestion:
Please reward SKILLFUL PLAY by bringing Shard/Mastery where it is today: a hard hitting CC - if it lands. What am I talking about, shard only hits really hard on squishies, if you spec for it and if you're geared.
It<s most of all false: you actually have for CW only one config that can work on only one kind of opponen : melee opponen. and it for reason below:
1 you have no choice but thauma way mean assaillant.
2 to make assaillant proc enough you need spellplague enchant (or other enchant that actually do overtime damage). all Enchant like vorpal enchant are simply unuseable. If you don<t use that assaillant will not proc more than once between 20 second to 1 min depending of your spell.
3 last lvl of ice (freeze) can only proc with icy terrain or your at will icy ray. the rest of spell may stack ice but not freeze
4 CW have only 3 overtime spell: ice conduct,fanning the flamm and icy terrain.
5 So if you had shield you already have your 4 slot taken
6 As you can see there is no control spell there and any other spell and since buff power does not work with assaillant, using ray of enfeeblement is no use
Now let see the problem of this.
1 you have one build at all and 5 point that are in choice. (have to choose between, more dodge,little healing or little more effecient for shard )
2 this build is really poor for pve and do really low dammage .
3 this build is dedicate against melee fighting in pvp and have nothing for ranged class + need to be in close fight. problematic in domination match since you will be probably nuked way before landing a single hit due to the poor def you have.
4 even for the passive power you are quite limited since you need also the passiv that activate combustion on crit of ice power to make sure having an extra 16-20 hit to proc assaillant
5 it an over time system for both dammage and control that mean it not effective in pvp group but also depend of your oponen nuking capacity.
Any other build as those actually in live hav more than hard time (thauma old build is simply no more) and renegade build is same as live with around 20-30% less damage.
So to resume. it<s a one way, one build, one feat, one enchant,one kind of target, one kind of play(PVP)
edit: it also have huge weakness if player even gwf and gf use their brain a little
edit this is as the current state without last annouced change putted on test server
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
I'm a bit confused by the need to make such serious changes to the CW damage output. Quite frankly, CWs SHOULD have much higher damage output than other characters. I played D&D for many years, and playing a wizard was similar to how it had been in Neverwinter with the current CW setups. You have a really had time at lower levels, and once you have a fully geared and upgraded wizard, things drop easily. My D&D wizards could ALWAYS kill things much easier than the other classes, that why parties would focus on keeping the wizard alive.
After putting 7 months into my CW and getting her to 16.3k GS, and finally getting to a point where I have a strong DSP, I was so disheartened by playing on the preview server I almost outright quit Neverwinter. My rotation (CoI tab, SoEA, ST, and SS) is no longer viable on the preview server. Quite frankly, this is insulting and ridiculous. My character is better named of enchants and companions in Mod 3 that fully geared in Mod 4. That is NOT balancing.....It's a disaster.
Your proposed changes with such drastic reductions in damage and control are making it so the CW has less flexibility in builds, and is going to force many of us with great characters to completely rework what has become fun to play. As such, it will be significantly less fun. And that means I will spend fewer dollars, or maybe even quit. Also, by changing so many things after I have invested so much time into my character reflects very poorly on how PerfectWorld treats their customers. Believe me when I say that this will influence what games I choose to play in the future.
Regarding the degree of "nerf" to my personal CW, I issue an open invitation to all developers to come and do a few runs with me in both Mod 3, and on the preview and see exactly what the changes do. You're taking the fun out of Neverwinter, and as such will end up with a decreased customer base.
Kreg (16.3k CW)
Quite frankly, these are exactly the reason why playing a non-caster sucked in D&D before 4e, as it does in many dungeons in NWO on live when you go with CWs and GWF that make everybody else feel useless. 4e (which is the base for Neverwinter) changed that and by the looks of the introductory PDF 5e is going the same way (you can really see how they went out of their head to avoid caster dominance).
CWs already bring control to the game, which is a great asset for the group. Damage should be the area of others (TR, Archer and Melee Rangers, Warlocks and GWFs). CWs should not be better single-target damage dealers than TRs or Combat HRs. They should be more AoE and control focused. I´ve been running approximately thirty dungeons on preview so far, some of them with CWs and some without and my feeling is that CWs are now closer to what they should be. Still powerful, still able to provide control and area damage but not the uber-gods we have seen in the last months.
On live everybody would always prefer a CW to a TR or DPS Ranger (Nature and Trapper are different animals) when fighting Valindra and that´s plain wrong. On preview a DPS Ranger is a good alternative to a CW in the final fight (never had the chance to do a Dungeon with TRs on preview unfortunately, so I can´t rate them (the fact that there was no change to TRs probably meant that TR players were not really interested in losing time on preview only to provide benchmarks to others. And when I say it is an alternative I mean that the CW can still do his job and be valuable but it will not overshadow others.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
And when I say it is an alternative I mean that the CW can still do his job and be valuable but it will not overshadow others. [/COLOR]
This is a real problem. The CW SHOULD overshadow others when it comes to damage. In what D&D game or almost any other fantasy game does an archer do as much damage as a high powered wizard?
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
This is a real problem. The CW SHOULD overshadow others when it comes to damage. In what D&D game or almost any other fantasy game does an archer do as much damage as a high powered wizard?
in D&D 4e definitely and in 5e most likely (though the PHB will come out only in a few days, but looking at the free PDF the wizard is not an heavy single-target damage dealer). And a Melee Ranger does far more. It is called "Control" wizard, not "Nuclear Bomb" wizard. Kudos to Devs for understanding that. By the way I think they are doing that also to give a common proposition across the D&D universe, so that people transitioning from Tabletop to the CRPG or the other way around should not feel off-place.
I guess this is the best feedback I can give: the CRPG feeling is starting to match the TTRPG feeling closer. Strikers (DPS classes) do more damage, Controllers (basically the CW and Trapper in NWO) have more control than others, Defenders (the GF) feel more "defending" (had a great experience yesterday with Lostmauth when one of our main GFs in the guild joined us for the first time on preview when we tested the final fight with and without the use of Into the Fray). They still have to find a neat place for Rogues and Clerics but they already said they are going to tackle them later on.
And a big part of the change in feeling is due to the changes to the CW.
The only thing that I don´t like is that due to the constant whining of PvPers they are starting to go back on the intial changes too much.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
CWs already bring control to the game, which is a great asset for the group. Damage should be the area of others (TR, Archer and Melee Rangers, Warlocks and GWFs). CWs should not be better single-target damage dealers than TRs or Combat HRs. They should be more AoE and control focused. I´ve been running approximately thirty dungeons on preview so far, some of them with CWs and some without and my feeling is that CWs are now closer to what they should be. Still powerful, still able to provide control and area damage but not the uber-gods we have seen in the last months.
On live everybody would always prefer a CW to a TR or DPS Ranger (Nature and Trapper are different animals) when fighting Valindra and that´s plain wrong.
The problem is not how many damage a CW but how dongeon are builded. with the amount of ads that are appear AOE damage are practicaly always at full target shot. An AOE power should provide more damage than a single target power when you hit 2 mob or more. gentleman put the ratio at 1.6. the problem that for trying to solve that for CW, they drop most AOE damage spell as shard to a lvl that when hit max target it provide same damage amount as other dps class with single target hit (ex: shard max hit 5 target: 3K *5 = 15k damage) but to maintain the 1.6 ratio then they also reduce single target power for wizard. it lead to have a class that hit less than other. What the problem then, well simply this class is already the weakest in defense. then they give more control to compensate ok well. but then give other class gf and gwf 3 second stun on their base power . it actually over any of the base time of any of CW spell (shard 2.5 second, entrangling force and steal time 2 second, the rest 1 second). for pve stun or prone doesn t change a thing since mob stop moving and attack in both case.
The mutli CW part was an other problem that have nothing to do with the damage but due to the fact that debuf power coming from multi CW where stacking. it no more the case.Ex if i<m the only CW on party i<m debuf target with ice conduct and ray of enfeeblement. next shot for all party have damage *2 so to speak if everyone use a 10-20k shot at that moment it give a damage summ of 100-200k. if you take 5 CW doing the same damage are *6 (1+5*1)it give 300-600k on next shot. And with control 5 CW were able to control all ads but this part can be done by a multi class group when there is less ads.
And if you say that TR and combat HR should have better single power damage ok but in opposite they should not have better defense than CW. that a basis of making choice the highest offense class should have the lowest defense and opposite and a class that have both lowest DPS and lowest defense should have something to compensate and it is suppose to be control but even here due to how CW control work, due to immun everywhere and due to the fact that at least 2 other class have better control time than us it neither compensate. the only thing that actually still give some illusion on pvp part on test server is the fact that GWF and GF is that most of those who come to test those class does not think neither try adjustment in both equip and stat to make adjust to their change and to see how to optimise their character and playstile but when the fiew that use their brain will post config it will be end. (ex for GWF use small run and mix it with inflexible and you have a perma CC immun not stay on ctrl until your run bar is down).
So to resume if dongeon where the only thing provided by the game, it would have been ok but it is not the only part and i would say it even not the major part for most player. (solo part is for me the major part followed by pvp and then only dongeon)
For exemple in my case here how it pass: 1 2 or 3 PVP domi match to do daily, then if i have time I,m doing or a small run in the ring of terror and/or the daily quest in IWD and most of time it stay here since i<m working and i have to get up tomorrow.
By the way i<m tired of this and since the last announced point by GC will be the last change due to the short time remain before V4 So there is no more need to speak about right and wrong.IF DEV and non CW player are right well CW will remain but if result give a broken or nearly broken class as many CW player think there will be massiv dissmiss from this class (by leaving game or changing character). that will lead to react point from dev to correct and then you will be back on the beggining point of this mess (those two point are really what is actually in mind of 80% at least of CW player that i spoke with)
in D&D 4e definitely and in 5e most likely (though the PHB will come out only in a few days, but looking at the free PDF the wizard is not an heavy single-target damage dealer). And a Melee Ranger does far more. It is called "Control" wizard, not "Nuclear Bomb" wizard. Kudos to Devs for understanding that. By the way I think they are doing that also to give a common proposition across the D&D universe, so that people transitioning from Tabletop to the CRPG or the other way around should not feel off-place.
I guess this is the best feedback I can give: the CRPG feeling is starting to match the TTRPG feeling closer. Strikers (DPS classes) do more damage, Controllers (basically the CW and Trapper in NWO) have more control than others, Defenders (the GF) feel more "defending" (had a great experience yesterday with Lostmauth when one of our main GFs in the guild joined us for the first time on preview when we tested the final fight with and without the use of Into the Fray). They still have to find a neat place for Rogues and Clerics but they already said they are going to tackle them later on.
And a big part of the change in feeling is due to the changes to the CW.
The only thing that I don´t like is that due to the constant whining of PvPers they are starting to go back on the intial changes too much.
If you want to start apply the rule of apply it all and not just take the part you want. if you apply rule completly wizard(not control wizard) will effectivly nuke every thing in both pve and pvp and that because of two things. 1 the limit of AOE spell is the area and not: area + max target amount. all target inside the area will take effect. The second point that absolutly non existant here is the adaptability, wizard available spell are far from being limited by what we have now in this game. the main and major point of a wizard is what to choose on his spell choice to adapt the situation also where are defensive spell.Where is invisible spell
Maelstrom of chaos:
Increase AoE radius
Increase the maximum target affected (to compensate the change of Arcane Singularity)
Increase the prone time
Suppress the 50% Action Point loss when you cancel your casting.[/COLOR]
That's exactly what should be done to MoC. I'm willing to give it a chance, it crits nice now. But you wouldn't even catch a mouse in its tiny aoe. And if you cancel to re-position you loose 50% AP. I think this AP loss from cancelling MoC wasn't just noticed when new dodge mechanics was introduced. So there we are reminding you Devs that MoC needs update due to new dodge system.
Replace the most useless bonus with this (Renegades players can tell you which one to choose):
All encounters on cool down are reduce by a number of seconds.
It could make renegade to be the path for those who like to be quick, to have burst damage, to play strategic (You will need to cast your encounters at the right time ...)
This! Since we can't re-do the damage nerf, out of all possible things that could make Renegade a choice to consider is to give its capstone faster encounter casting ability. Cap-stone that reduces CD, ICD and casting time on all at wills, dailies and encounters. This would make renes unique, could make up a bit for damage loss (unless CW will use control abilities only), and Renegade would be interesting in PvP again. Otherwise every one who likes both PvE and PvP will have to go thauma way because renegade has no place in PvP: can't control the way Oppressor can, can't Dps the way that thauma can. If we could at least have capstone of some practical use, that would make us faster casters, I'd consider it fun to play. Hell, I'd even try shard again.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
CW-class deal a lot of damage, have prones and a lot of control with any build to other classes. The class should have all these stats halved against players
yes CW have lot of thing as all other class does, and as same as other class we have to choose between those aspect. if you want control you don't deal many damage. it always a trade matter as most of class. it same thing as saying that GWF are the tankiest and the hardest hitting class and after fighting one sentinell and one destructor.
and prone we have only one spell and it is shard and if someone kil lyou with that you should rework your character. because damadge potential are almost nothing and because only explosion give a 2 second prone even the tab is no use. (the non explosion only prone for a short 1 sec.
And among the change annouced but not yet on server it is much a double edge sword since it is affecting the actual most viable build for pvp who depend on ice conduct icy terrain to do dammage (-16% dammage or -6 if you don't take the new feat)
Comments
Nah... it's ok this way.
Just try to forget about it's existance and all is fine )) However it's still good for boss fights though....as those last more then a minute for sure and sometimes it's essential to burst damage in this 10 seconds period of madness like useing dailies or most powerfull encounters.
It became more like tabletop, you know...when u roll high score and it's your lucky chance to inflict more damage this turn ))
if u want high 1 traget dps caster roll to warlock and your problem is solved what is the point of warlock class if cw will be able to easy out dps it ? name says controll wizard not dps one as for other mmos in none of them controll(ice )wizards can out dps dps (fire)wizards
so dont come here saying i taken controll wizard for dps when name says it is for controll
if cw were broken since cb it dose not mean it is ok to have 1 class the best in everything
how much i know most of cw on live atm runs thaum
I was.
/hairflip
I agree and since they are the Masters of CONTROL give Wizards 50 to 75% CC resistance penetration and tenacity penetration, reduce the duration of control abilities of all other classes by 50 to 75%(So they can't control as well as a CW), and give them 50% CC resistance(From none which they have now). Then and only then will a reduction in Damage output for Cws will have meaning,when Control becomes truly the Domain of CONTROL wizards. That way if you want Control go for a Wizard,instead of another class. Until that happens though cws need damage to survive, so no more crybabies,enough said.
I'd gladly give absolute Power to another class if I were given absolute CONTROL.
The original split for CW was Oppressor for control, Thaum for constant DPS with buff/debuff, and Renegade for crit-based bursty DPS. Now we have an upgraded control tree (Oppressor), a pure DPS tree (Thaum), and what's supposed to be a group buff/debuff tree in Renegade but is in fact just completely useless.
Since most CW players are used to playing DPS they're having their choice of tree restricted to just Thaum. Oppressor builds have some utility but with the changes to freeze I'm not sure it's going to be PvP viable as the DPS is pretty low.
As I main an MoF build specced primarily for TR hunting the nerf to Renegade doesn't affect me too much (I'll be running Thaum or Oppressor depending on more testing) but it's a shame to see a popular tree that required skill to make the most of effectively deleted.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Shield has been buffed and then almost immediately nerfed so it remains to be seen what kind of impact that has. EotS buff is pretty ridonculous and I expect a nerf before it goes live. If not you are going to see rivers of QQ on here when CWs with the DC artifact kill any class in the first 6 seconds of every fight.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
its not like u cant now if anything it will be worse for u since gf is overbuffed to insane lvl
The only point of the warlock is to sell more Zen. There is no other reason for it.
AoE damage = control.
All of a Renegades group buffs are gone now. The capstone, Chaos Magic, now only buffs the wizard, and 2 out of 3 of the possible effects are all but useless in the endgame.
Is that a bad thing? The whole point of the GAME is to sell Zen. Companies make products to make money.
Not true. Chaos Magic also buffs party members within 50'.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?692711-Official-Feedback-Thread-Control-Wizard-Changes&p=8466411#post8466411
I didn't say it was a bad thing. He asked, I answered.
Then that's brand new. That's not what the tooltip said on test last night. Still, Chaotic Fury is the only useful one to decently geared characters, since we generally have our ArP and crit maxed, and don't have to micro-manage our healing.
Furthermore, in order to get Nightmare Wizardry (is this a group buff again too?) back it looks as though I have to spend 5 points buffing powers I won't use (Chilling Cloud or MoC) AND I have to take my 5 points out of Phantasmal Destruction or Arcane Masterful Theft, in order to get a slim chance to gain 10% lifesteal and power.
On test, I STILL can't respend the 5 points they took out, no matter where I try to put them.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Same thing.
You do understand that Cryptic and Perfectworld are companies? They exists to make money.
Agree 100%. Honestly I dont know why they dont just build a damage stacking capstone like other classes have instead of this "proc chance" Assailing Force thing...
GWF - builds stacks while unstoppable for up to 50% Dmg boost
GF - Builds stacks when taking damage for 25% dmg and crit boost
HRs - Mark a target for (20%?) damage boost.
Give CWs a nice damage boost capstone, and bring back shard damage - it actually took skill to use....
The alternative T1 feat, is one of the basically bad ideas - using an at-will at point blank. Just the thing to get you nuked pointlessly.
While the buff to MoC is nice, it's still a skill with little real use (even with the fixes to it and bufs). It's buggy, and inferior to OF. It has some niche uses, but I see little point in feating a Daily of dubious utility. The only reason I can see to feat a daily skill is if you are going to use it, every other rotation. Add in the slow casting animation and the slow casting time (ie waiting for the targeting circle to appear...), it's not going to see much use with my 2 CW's.
It<s most of all false: you actually have for CW only one config that can work on only one kind of opponen : melee opponen. and it for reason below:
1 you have no choice but thauma way mean assaillant.
2 to make assaillant proc enough you need spellplague enchant (or other enchant that actually do overtime damage). all Enchant like vorpal enchant are simply unuseable. If you don<t use that assaillant will not proc more than once between 20 second to 1 min depending of your spell.
3 last lvl of ice (freeze) can only proc with icy terrain or your at will icy ray. the rest of spell may stack ice but not freeze
4 CW have only 3 overtime spell: ice conduct,fanning the flamm and icy terrain.
5 So if you had shield you already have your 4 slot taken
6 As you can see there is no control spell there and any other spell and since buff power does not work with assaillant, using ray of enfeeblement is no use
Now let see the problem of this.
1 you have one build at all and 5 point that are in choice. (have to choose between, more dodge,little healing or little more effecient for shard )
2 this build is really poor for pve and do really low dammage .
3 this build is dedicate against melee fighting in pvp and have nothing for ranged class + need to be in close fight. problematic in domination match since you will be probably nuked way before landing a single hit due to the poor def you have.
4 even for the passive power you are quite limited since you need also the passiv that activate combustion on crit of ice power to make sure having an extra 16-20 hit to proc assaillant
5 it an over time system for both dammage and control that mean it not effective in pvp group but also depend of your oponen nuking capacity.
Any other build as those actually in live hav more than hard time (thauma old build is simply no more) and renegade build is same as live with around 20-30% less damage.
So to resume. it<s a one way, one build, one feat, one enchant,one kind of target, one kind of play(PVP)
edit: it also have huge weakness if player even gwf and gf use their brain a little
edit this is as the current state without last annouced change putted on test server
Quite frankly, these are exactly the reason why playing a non-caster sucked in D&D before 4e, as it does in many dungeons in NWO on live when you go with CWs and GWF that make everybody else feel useless. 4e (which is the base for Neverwinter) changed that and by the looks of the introductory PDF 5e is going the same way (you can really see how they went out of their head to avoid caster dominance).
CWs already bring control to the game, which is a great asset for the group. Damage should be the area of others (TR, Archer and Melee Rangers, Warlocks and GWFs). CWs should not be better single-target damage dealers than TRs or Combat HRs. They should be more AoE and control focused.
I´ve been running approximately thirty dungeons on preview so far, some of them with CWs and some without and my feeling is that CWs are now closer to what they should be. Still powerful, still able to provide control and area damage but not the uber-gods we have seen in the last months.
On live everybody would always prefer a CW to a TR or DPS Ranger (Nature and Trapper are different animals) when fighting Valindra and that´s plain wrong.
On preview a DPS Ranger is a good alternative to a CW in the final fight (never had the chance to do a Dungeon with TRs on preview unfortunately, so I can´t rate them (the fact that there was no change to TRs probably meant that TR players were not really interested in losing time on preview only to provide benchmarks to others. And when I say it is an alternative I mean that the CW can still do his job and be valuable but it will not overshadow others.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Bring back shard damage or just take it out of the game altogether. It has no use as it is on preview, and we have nothing to replace it with.
This is a real problem. The CW SHOULD overshadow others when it comes to damage. In what D&D game or almost any other fantasy game does an archer do as much damage as a high powered wizard?
in D&D 4e definitely and in 5e most likely (though the PHB will come out only in a few days, but looking at the free PDF the wizard is not an heavy single-target damage dealer). And a Melee Ranger does far more. It is called "Control" wizard, not "Nuclear Bomb" wizard. Kudos to Devs for understanding that. By the way I think they are doing that also to give a common proposition across the D&D universe, so that people transitioning from Tabletop to the CRPG or the other way around should not feel off-place.
I guess this is the best feedback I can give: the CRPG feeling is starting to match the TTRPG feeling closer. Strikers (DPS classes) do more damage, Controllers (basically the CW and Trapper in NWO) have more control than others, Defenders (the GF) feel more "defending" (had a great experience yesterday with Lostmauth when one of our main GFs in the guild joined us for the first time on preview when we tested the final fight with and without the use of Into the Fray). They still have to find a neat place for Rogues and Clerics but they already said they are going to tackle them later on.
And a big part of the change in feeling is due to the changes to the CW.
The only thing that I don´t like is that due to the constant whining of PvPers they are starting to go back on the intial changes too much.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
The mutli CW part was an other problem that have nothing to do with the damage but due to the fact that debuf power coming from multi CW where stacking. it no more the case.Ex if i<m the only CW on party i<m debuf target with ice conduct and ray of enfeeblement. next shot for all party have damage *2 so to speak if everyone use a 10-20k shot at that moment it give a damage summ of 100-200k. if you take 5 CW doing the same damage are *6 (1+5*1)it give 300-600k on next shot. And with control 5 CW were able to control all ads but this part can be done by a multi class group when there is less ads.
And if you say that TR and combat HR should have better single power damage ok but in opposite they should not have better defense than CW. that a basis of making choice the highest offense class should have the lowest defense and opposite and a class that have both lowest DPS and lowest defense should have something to compensate and it is suppose to be control but even here due to how CW control work, due to immun everywhere and due to the fact that at least 2 other class have better control time than us it neither compensate. the only thing that actually still give some illusion on pvp part on test server is the fact that GWF and GF is that most of those who come to test those class does not think neither try adjustment in both equip and stat to make adjust to their change and to see how to optimise their character and playstile but when the fiew that use their brain will post config it will be end. (ex for GWF use small run and mix it with inflexible and you have a perma CC immun not stay on ctrl until your run bar is down).
So to resume if dongeon where the only thing provided by the game, it would have been ok but it is not the only part and i would say it even not the major part for most player. (solo part is for me the major part followed by pvp and then only dongeon)
For exemple in my case here how it pass: 1 2 or 3 PVP domi match to do daily, then if i have time I,m doing or a small run in the ring of terror and/or the daily quest in IWD and most of time it stay here since i<m working and i have to get up tomorrow.
By the way i<m tired of this and since the last announced point by GC will be the last change due to the short time remain before V4 So there is no more need to speak about right and wrong.IF DEV and non CW player are right well CW will remain but if result give a broken or nearly broken class as many CW player think there will be massiv dissmiss from this class (by leaving game or changing character). that will lead to react point from dev to correct and then you will be back on the beggining point of this mess (those two point are really what is actually in mind of 80% at least of CW player that i spoke with)
If you want to start apply the rule of apply it all and not just take the part you want. if you apply rule completly wizard(not control wizard) will effectivly nuke every thing in both pve and pvp and that because of two things. 1 the limit of AOE spell is the area and not: area + max target amount. all target inside the area will take effect. The second point that absolutly non existant here is the adaptability, wizard available spell are far from being limited by what we have now in this game. the main and major point of a wizard is what to choose on his spell choice to adapt the situation also where are defensive spell.Where is invisible spell
That's exactly what should be done to MoC. I'm willing to give it a chance, it crits nice now. But you wouldn't even catch a mouse in its tiny aoe. And if you cancel to re-position you loose 50% AP. I think this AP loss from cancelling MoC wasn't just noticed when new dodge mechanics was introduced. So there we are reminding you Devs that MoC needs update due to new dodge system.
This! Since we can't re-do the damage nerf, out of all possible things that could make Renegade a choice to consider is to give its capstone faster encounter casting ability. Cap-stone that reduces CD, ICD and casting time on all at wills, dailies and encounters. This would make renes unique, could make up a bit for damage loss (unless CW will use control abilities only), and Renegade would be interesting in PvP again. Otherwise every one who likes both PvE and PvP will have to go thauma way because renegade has no place in PvP: can't control the way Oppressor can, can't Dps the way that thauma can. If we could at least have capstone of some practical use, that would make us faster casters, I'd consider it fun to play. Hell, I'd even try shard again.
yes CW have lot of thing as all other class does, and as same as other class we have to choose between those aspect. if you want control you don't deal many damage. it always a trade matter as most of class. it same thing as saying that GWF are the tankiest and the hardest hitting class and after fighting one sentinell and one destructor.
and prone we have only one spell and it is shard and if someone kil lyou with that you should rework your character. because damadge potential are almost nothing and because only explosion give a 2 second prone even the tab is no use. (the non explosion only prone for a short 1 sec.
And among the change annouced but not yet on server it is much a double edge sword since it is affecting the actual most viable build for pvp who depend on ice conduct icy terrain to do dammage (-16% dammage or -6 if you don't take the new feat)