Because the game (should) have diversity, with some classes shining in 1v1 and others in group play. It's okay if HRs lose to CWs 1v1 (they still won't, though; HRs have a few other tools in their arsenal still) as long as HRs can still contribute to the group.
Perma-freezing shouldn't be in the game. Anything that let's one class kill another without the other class being able to do anything is messed up.
That single target increase is really worrisome for HRs going against CWs, also. No CC break, no CC, nerfed self-healing, against a class that can perma-disable, and now suddenly gets 30% more damage. I don't see HRs having any chance.
HAHAHA GOOD ONE. Now get out of this thread your troll.
HR is the most OP class in the game even with all the changes. A HR has 0 problem killing an CW on the preview shard EVEN with the un-nerfed assailing and shield.
Hey all we are making a few changes to improve Single Target feel and bringing Magic Missile up a little bit. These changes wont make it in this week, but should be in an upcoming preview push either next week or the week after.
Focused Wizardry: Now increases single target damage by 10/20/30% but reduces AoE damage by 30/20/10%.
Magic Missile: Damage increased by about 15%.
One of the more controversial parts of the change will be the direct decrease to AoE damage given by Focused Wizardry. We wanted it to be an important choice that helps refine your role and improve your position as "focused on priority targets with single target spells" but we couldn't just put 10/20/30% in there without some kind of draw back or it became an always correct option at that tier. Therefore we have opted to give it a drawback that you can decrease as you put points into it. This means that if you take Focused Wizardry you can still use AoE powers in cases where they overtake Single Target powers (generally when they would affect 4 or more targets is this breakpoint) without losing too much of the effectiveness there while still getting a nice solid Single Target boost. Secondly we brought Magic Missile up a bit. It was still performing quite well in our testing, but we found that it didn't fit well enough into most PVE situations any more so we wanted to make it a little more competitive choice for PVE players. This means that Chilling Cloud still performs better when 3~4 targets will be up for any meaningful time, but Magic Missile is a consistent source of Arcane Mastery and is still very important and competitive when making that choice.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Use Arcane Mastery instead to buff single target damage 10, 20, 30%
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
May I ask what spells and abilities Focused Wizardry is supposed to positively affect, negatively affect, and have no effect on? From my testing as it is on the preview server Magic Missile, Chill Strike (only when not tabbed), Icy Rays, and Ice Knife are the only real "damage" spells that benefit from Focused Wizardry (Ray of Frost, Repel, and Entangling Force don't do enough damage for a damage boost to really make any difference in dps output). It has no effect on other things like Storm Spell, and Ray of Enfeeblement. I haven't had the time to test damaging single-target feats like Creeping Frost, Warped Magic, Shatter, and Assailing Force. I also know that some of the categorizations of "single-target" and "AoE" are screwy so some spells we wouldn't think of will get a 10% reduction.
Before I can assess whether Focused Wizardry will be a benefit or a detriment to my style of my play it would sure help if I knew what things it affects and what ones it doesn't. With this adjustment going up a week before the Mod 4 release date I doubt I'll have time to test it and find out for myself.
Feedback: Focused Wizardry
I think this will greatly help the CW PvP community (complaints about shard aside). Icy Rays and Ice Knife, in particular, are going to be very dangerous. I don't know for sure how it will affect PvE's. I'll have to test to see if the benefit outweighs the cost. However, this will definitely adversely affect leveling CW's. Focused Wizardry is now 3 points or none. It would be foolish to spend 1 or 2 points in it. That would badly gimp your character. That's not a problem for a level 60 character doing a respec. But for a new character just playing through the content this feat will be avoided because no one will want to live with a 30% decrease in AOE damage for any length of time on top of all of the other nerfs that have been rolled out. Why not just make it a flat 10% reduction in AoE damage for Ranks 1, 2, and 3?
Main question is more like that: Gentelmancrush: Have you ever played CW in pvp domination?
... so now I have to chosse which way I want to go. PVE or PVP - there is no way in parallel, cause the 30% is too good to ignore it but the -10% are also too bad to ignore it. Of course also in the past it was not easy, with two sets of gear (or even some rings/belts to change)
To be honest PVE is dying and PVP will be the only future I see, sad.
All changes IMHO since months are only based on PVP, discussions and changes only based on PVP, PVE content is only to bring new items to the PVP people and to let them level and get some needed stuff
Please forget about the change to give more PVE oriented CW's also a chance to enjoy PVP sometimes
Maybe it would be a "gotcha" if HR was any good in group play. We're just about the worst with no CC and no burst (TR might be a little worse but they have that great bursty AOE daily).
CW being able to always kill a 1v1 specialist means that 1v1 specialist isn't very special.
But sure if you want to make us good in groups that would be A-OK by me. I didn't exactly pick HR to begin with thinking I'd spend all my time contesting nodes, relying almost exclusively on DOT damage and passively healing.
We'll need some CC and/or burst though.
HAHAHA GOOD ONE. Now get out of this thread your troll.
HR is the most OP class in the game even with all the changes. A HR has 0 problem killing an CW on the preview shard EVEN with the un-nerfed assailing and shield.
You're missing the part where wild's medicine got an ICD (it's not up on preview yet). That means no more out-healing damage from ray of frost.
HR has 99 problems killing a CW now. No more constricting arrow, self-heals nerfed, no CC-break or immunity as usual.
We still should be decent against the other classes but I see no reason why equal geared/skilled CW can't win 100% with changes as they are now.
CW has trouble killing everyone, not just HR. Feel privileged that the worst PVP class can beat the best PVP class. Rock paper scissors
Last bunch of changes when I was on preview, that was not the case. CWs were owning everybody left and right.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad CW is getting a buff in PVP. I'll probably end up just playing my CW who's play style I enjoy more than HR (I enjoyed HR much more in mod2 when split shot/fox shift were real damage threats, rather than now where you just apply dots and shift around waiting for them to kill the person because you have no other damage source while your bugged pvp set heals you).
Perma-freeze shouldn't be a thing, though, any more than GWFs able to kill you in a prone chain on live. People should always at least have some kind of way to fight back.
My Harem: Dawn HR, Erin CW, Piper TR, Zoe GWF
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2014
Anyone that has been in preview lately for the new update. Has Storm Pillar's crit been fixed? The smaller bolts didnt crit when the main bolt did before.
Perma-freeze shouldn't be a thing, though, any more than GWFs able to kill you in a prone chain on live. People should always at least have some kind of way to fight back.
There's no such thing as perma-freeze. A CW has to apply 7 stacks of chill to a target to freeze them. That takes time. After they break freeze the CW will have to apply 7 more chill stacks during which time the opponent is free to do whatever the heck they want. There was a brief period of time when Mod 4 went live on the preview where chill stacks could be applied WHILE the opponent was frozen. That was fixed almost immediately because it was ridiculous. There is no longer any way to perma-freeze anything. Your complaint is unfounded.
Also, I've been on the preview server a lot. Including trying out PvP. HR's utterly destroy me. Maybe I just plain stink at PvP (which is possible). But even with a 16.8 GS, perfect vorpal and a plan to not use any DOT's (so as not to get wild medicine up to 10 stacks) on my opponent there were still HR's who sliced me to pieces. Their health never got below 50% and as I died they were at 100% health. No amount of skill can bridge that kind of a gap. My experience is that every class but GF's is getting crushed by HR's on the preview server.
There's no such thing as perma-freeze. A CW has to apply 7 stacks of chill to a target to freeze them. That takes time. After they break freeze the CW will have to apply 7 more chill stacks during which time the opponent is free to do whatever the heck they want. There was a brief period of time when Mod 4 went live on the preview where chill stacks could be applied WHILE the opponent was frozen. That was fixed almost immediately because it was ridiculous. There is no longer any way to perma-freeze anything. Your complaint is unfounded.
Also, I've been on the preview server a lot. Including trying out PvP. HR's utterly destroy me. Maybe I just plain stink at PvP (which is possible). But even with a 16.8 GS, perfect vorpal and a plan to not use any DOT's (so as not to get wild medicine up to 10 stacks) on my opponent there were still HR's who sliced me to pieces. Their health never got below 50% and as I died they were at 100% health. No amount of skill can bridge that kind of a gap. My experience is that every class but GF's is getting crushed by HR's on the preview server.
Try again against HRs today with the ICD on Wilds Medicine.
That's good that you actually did your homework and avoided DOTs against HR, but you shouldn't have to worry about it as much with the ICD on WM.
I may very well be wrong about the perma freeze thing. If so, good. Can't a CW get something pretty close to it though if they spec oppressor for extra chill stacks and shatter stuns?
Try again against HRs today with the ICD on Wilds Medicine.
That's good that you actually did your homework and avoided DOTs against HR, but you shouldn't have to worry about it as much with the ICD on WM.
I may very well be wrong about the perma freeze thing. If so, good. Can't a CW get something pretty close to it though if they spec oppressor for extra chill stacks and shatter stuns?
I do plan to try again now that it has an icd. It may be better. We'll see.
If a cw tries to do a total control build in pvp I doubt it would work. Even if they timed it perfectly so that freeze turned into shatter then to entangling force then shard (for example). The problem is they wouldn't kill anyone. Those don't inflict much of any damage. Assailant is now the best weapon in our arsenal and we can't get that and shatter. They're both capstones. Besides, shatter has only a "chance" to apply stun so it isn't reliable. I tested it on a GF and it failed to stun on 5 consecutive tries.
I have not heard this, and it does not block it on test as of yet so, I don't believe you But the bottom line is it should NOT go through shield so we agree there.
Problem here is you are applying real world logic to a video game so lets do that for a minute and have some fun!
Ice Knife should have its damage lowered if the ambient temperature in the arena is above a certain threshold because part of its mass will be melted off by the time it lands.
Oppressive Force should only attract enemy players who are wearing metal armor correct? If the person has cloth armor and is wielding a wooden staff this power will have no effect. Good?
Sillyness, you cannot use that as an argument. So again, why should it go through CC? Does it say so in the tool tip? Is there a Feat or Class Feature that buffs it so that it cannot be blocked? If not, then there is no reason for someone who is CC immune to still be susceptible to CC.
Without real world logic why have collision detect? Have objects move through another. Or why not allow people to fly all over the place and Nuke neverwinter at their pleasure. In fact why not give every monster only 1 hit point,that drops by 0,00001 points for every hit? Of course you have to apply some form of Logic otherwise you don't have a game. Not every parameter of physics can be applied due to file size and bandwidth,but some must. So when a shield can block everything,then you might as well say that it can block a nuclear attack,or a Gods wrath because its magical. In fact,without logic,why not make GFs Ingame Gods themselves so we can all go home.
Disclaimer : I'm only using GF as an example,my statements above should not be considered as a nerf request for the class. I'm firmly opposed to nerfs for anyone.
You have 22k hp sir... That might be your issue. I didn't even know it was possible to have that little.
I have less then 22 HP and with life steal on live server I'm able to survive worse the Epic Riders. Putting points and gearing to rise HP won't help damage. PvE CWs usually sacrifice survivability to get more power/crit/arm pen. Getting a little bit more HP will make fights for CWs even longer and won't guarantee success.
And speaking of life steal : overall damage nerf also makes live steal less effective. Sadness.
I'm still waiting for new changes to be implemented. Did Lostmauth on my rene. just after patching and the result was... depressing.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
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sokolnichiyMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 187Arc User
I have less then 22 HP and with life steal on live server I'm able to survive worse the Epic Riders. Putting points and gearing to rise HP won't help damage. PvE CWs usually sacrifice survivability to get more power/crit/arm pen. Getting a little bit more HP will make fights for CWs even longer and won't guarantee success.
And speaking of life steal : overall damage nerf also makes live steal less effective. Sadness.
I'm still waiting for new changes to be implemented. Did Lostmauth on my rene. just after patching and the result was... depressing.
Use endless consumption boon....insted of madness...cause madness will be fixed and trigger onec in a minute or to be specific onec in 50 seconds or so and endless consumptin triggers on every time but much more often like every 25 seconds or even less.
You have 22k hp sir... That might be your issue. I didn't even know it was possible to have that little.
Is it his fault that he has a little hp? No, all PvE CWs has got a little hp, i saw CWs even with 19k hp, probably wrong build etc. but not every one is born with perfect build, 10 ranks enchants and perfect vorpal. They were created like that, if you have problem with this maby feedback: increase base hp or def/dex of CW? If you gain more hp this won't change anything becouse they must resign from dps, and the capability of surviving CW against adds is realy poor becouse we get cosmic dmg from adds, we are one shot paper clas with 20-30% DR and 0-5% deflection chance depending on the gear which we are wearing, make more hp this is not a solution.
Use endless consumption boon....insted of madness...cause madness will be fixed and trigger onec in a minute or to be specific onec in 50 seconds or so and endless consumptin triggers on every time but much more often like every 25 seconds or even less.
Ty, good to know. Though madness "fix" made me feel even more depressed now.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
The point is that Renegade was an extremely popular tree in both PvE and PvP, so this is going to affect an awful lot of people.
You're going to see near 100% of CWs rolling Thaumaturge now in both PvE and PvP, which isn't really healthy IMO.
It's not ideal, but it's certainly not unusual. Anyway is Oppressor really not that viable for PVP? Seems like people were using it and having success with it until they came out with Assailing force.
Since then they've only gotten buffs as far as I can tell- EOTS, Shield. Oppressor may not kill as fast but it should put out more CC, and CC is king in PVP.
Why are CWs so upset that they won't have 3 viable trees at the same time. As far as I know, no class has ever had all 3 trees viable.
.
Why are you so eager to see CWs with no choice? On live there are already only 2 CW trees viable, because barely anyone goes Oppressor. Or you'll be satisfied if only 1 tree was ok?
It's the second time I see you crying, that CWs are fighting to have all 3 trees of some use. Otherwise what is the point of having 3 trees? And CC wizard in PvP will only irritate one person for as long as the CW won't get killed. Because with such low damage CC Cw will not be able to kill anyone. Everybody will go Thauma, that will be the end of it.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
It's not ideal, but it's certainly not unusual. Anyway is Oppressor really not that viable for PVP? Seems like people were using it and having success with it until they came out with Assailing force.
Since then they've only gotten buffs as far as I can tell- EOTS, Shield. Oppressor may not kill as fast but it should put out more CC, and CC is king in PVP.
1 - None of those feats are live, so they've not been tested.
2 - Oppressor does dot damage, you are an HR don't need me to tell you about how that is poor in PvP.
3 - this was while Oppressor could apply chill while target was frozen.
4 - this was before melee didn't have 3 second stuns.
The point is that Renegade was an extremely popular tree in both PvE and PvP, so this is going to affect an awful lot of people.
You're going to see near 100% of CWs rolling Thaumaturge now in both PvE and PvP, which isn't really healthy IMO.
I thought the majority of PvP CW's ran Thaum Spec, and some Oppressor.
Anyway, it sounds to me like you are trying to use different builds the same way? Is Renegade more of a group debuff tree or AoE focused for group dynamic? That would justify a lower DPS output than a Burst Focused Tree no?
Anyway is Oppressor really not that viable for PVP? Seems like people were using it and having success with it until they came out with Assailing force.
Control in general is good, the problem is that our stuns and dazes are 100% ineffective against most classes.
Comments
HAHAHA GOOD ONE. Now get out of this thread your troll.
HR is the most OP class in the game even with all the changes. A HR has 0 problem killing an CW on the preview shard EVEN with the un-nerfed assailing and shield.
Use Arcane Mastery instead to buff single target damage 10, 20, 30%
Apparently, the perma freeze wizard of Diablo 3 has made his way to Neverwinter after getting the nerf hammer in his own game.
Boring, shameful way to play a game. Just let us nuke stuff and die if we miss.
Main question is more like that: Gentelmancrush: Have you ever played CW in pvp domination?
To be honest PVE is dying and PVP will be the only future I see, sad.
All changes IMHO since months are only based on PVP, discussions and changes only based on PVP, PVE content is only to bring new items to the PVP people and to let them level and get some needed stuff
Please forget about the change to give more PVE oriented CW's also a chance to enjoy PVP sometimes
Sad...
Maybe it would be a "gotcha" if HR was any good in group play. We're just about the worst with no CC and no burst (TR might be a little worse but they have that great bursty AOE daily).
CW being able to always kill a 1v1 specialist means that 1v1 specialist isn't very special.
But sure if you want to make us good in groups that would be A-OK by me. I didn't exactly pick HR to begin with thinking I'd spend all my time contesting nodes, relying almost exclusively on DOT damage and passively healing.
We'll need some CC and/or burst though.
You're missing the part where wild's medicine got an ICD (it's not up on preview yet). That means no more out-healing damage from ray of frost.
HR has 99 problems killing a CW now. No more constricting arrow, self-heals nerfed, no CC-break or immunity as usual.
We still should be decent against the other classes but I see no reason why equal geared/skilled CW can't win 100% with changes as they are now.
CW has trouble killing everyone, not just HR. Feel privileged that the worst PVP class can beat the best PVP class. Rock paper scissors
Last bunch of changes when I was on preview, that was not the case. CWs were owning everybody left and right.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad CW is getting a buff in PVP. I'll probably end up just playing my CW who's play style I enjoy more than HR (I enjoyed HR much more in mod2 when split shot/fox shift were real damage threats, rather than now where you just apply dots and shift around waiting for them to kill the person because you have no other damage source while your bugged pvp set heals you).
Perma-freeze shouldn't be a thing, though, any more than GWFs able to kill you in a prone chain on live. People should always at least have some kind of way to fight back.
There's no such thing as perma-freeze. A CW has to apply 7 stacks of chill to a target to freeze them. That takes time. After they break freeze the CW will have to apply 7 more chill stacks during which time the opponent is free to do whatever the heck they want. There was a brief period of time when Mod 4 went live on the preview where chill stacks could be applied WHILE the opponent was frozen. That was fixed almost immediately because it was ridiculous. There is no longer any way to perma-freeze anything. Your complaint is unfounded.
Also, I've been on the preview server a lot. Including trying out PvP. HR's utterly destroy me. Maybe I just plain stink at PvP (which is possible). But even with a 16.8 GS, perfect vorpal and a plan to not use any DOT's (so as not to get wild medicine up to 10 stacks) on my opponent there were still HR's who sliced me to pieces. Their health never got below 50% and as I died they were at 100% health. No amount of skill can bridge that kind of a gap. My experience is that every class but GF's is getting crushed by HR's on the preview server.
Try again against HRs today with the ICD on Wilds Medicine.
That's good that you actually did your homework and avoided DOTs against HR, but you shouldn't have to worry about it as much with the ICD on WM.
I may very well be wrong about the perma freeze thing. If so, good. Can't a CW get something pretty close to it though if they spec oppressor for extra chill stacks and shatter stuns?
If a cw tries to do a total control build in pvp I doubt it would work. Even if they timed it perfectly so that freeze turned into shatter then to entangling force then shard (for example). The problem is they wouldn't kill anyone. Those don't inflict much of any damage. Assailant is now the best weapon in our arsenal and we can't get that and shatter. They're both capstones. Besides, shatter has only a "chance" to apply stun so it isn't reliable. I tested it on a GF and it failed to stun on 5 consecutive tries.
Because it's been enchanted. ie a wizard did it.
Without real world logic why have collision detect? Have objects move through another. Or why not allow people to fly all over the place and Nuke neverwinter at their pleasure. In fact why not give every monster only 1 hit point,that drops by 0,00001 points for every hit? Of course you have to apply some form of Logic otherwise you don't have a game. Not every parameter of physics can be applied due to file size and bandwidth,but some must. So when a shield can block everything,then you might as well say that it can block a nuclear attack,or a Gods wrath because its magical. In fact,without logic,why not make GFs Ingame Gods themselves so we can all go home.
Disclaimer : I'm only using GF as an example,my statements above should not be considered as a nerf request for the class. I'm firmly opposed to nerfs for anyone.
I have less then 22 HP and with life steal on live server I'm able to survive worse the Epic Riders. Putting points and gearing to rise HP won't help damage. PvE CWs usually sacrifice survivability to get more power/crit/arm pen. Getting a little bit more HP will make fights for CWs even longer and won't guarantee success.
And speaking of life steal : overall damage nerf also makes live steal less effective. Sadness.
I'm still waiting for new changes to be implemented. Did Lostmauth on my rene. just after patching and the result was... depressing.
Use endless consumption boon....insted of madness...cause madness will be fixed and trigger onec in a minute or to be specific onec in 50 seconds or so and endless consumptin triggers on every time but much more often like every 25 seconds or even less.
Is it his fault that he has a little hp? No, all PvE CWs has got a little hp, i saw CWs even with 19k hp, probably wrong build etc. but not every one is born with perfect build, 10 ranks enchants and perfect vorpal. They were created like that, if you have problem with this maby feedback: increase base hp or def/dex of CW? If you gain more hp this won't change anything becouse they must resign from dps, and the capability of surviving CW against adds is realy poor becouse we get cosmic dmg from adds, we are one shot paper clas with 20-30% DR and 0-5% deflection chance depending on the gear which we are wearing, make more hp this is not a solution.
Ty, good to know. Though madness "fix" made me feel even more depressed now.
You guys are still king of PVE and now great in PVP. Reading this thread you make it see like the class is dead.
Buy a respec. Every other class has to respec when they change <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
You're going to see near 100% of CWs rolling Thaumaturge now in both PvE and PvP, which isn't really healthy IMO.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
It's not ideal, but it's certainly not unusual. Anyway is Oppressor really not that viable for PVP? Seems like people were using it and having success with it until they came out with Assailing force.
Since then they've only gotten buffs as far as I can tell- EOTS, Shield. Oppressor may not kill as fast but it should put out more CC, and CC is king in PVP.
Why are you so eager to see CWs with no choice? On live there are already only 2 CW trees viable, because barely anyone goes Oppressor. Or you'll be satisfied if only 1 tree was ok?
It's the second time I see you crying, that CWs are fighting to have all 3 trees of some use. Otherwise what is the point of having 3 trees? And CC wizard in PvP will only irritate one person for as long as the CW won't get killed. Because with such low damage CC Cw will not be able to kill anyone. Everybody will go Thauma, that will be the end of it.
1 - None of those feats are live, so they've not been tested.
2 - Oppressor does dot damage, you are an HR don't need me to tell you about how that is poor in PvP.
3 - this was while Oppressor could apply chill while target was frozen.
4 - this was before melee didn't have 3 second stuns.
I thought the majority of PvP CW's ran Thaum Spec, and some Oppressor.
Anyway, it sounds to me like you are trying to use different builds the same way? Is Renegade more of a group debuff tree or AoE focused for group dynamic? That would justify a lower DPS output than a Burst Focused Tree no?
Control in general is good, the problem is that our stuns and dazes are 100% ineffective against most classes.