It means nothing to me anymore. And frankly when your last race pack was 60(edit: which a lot of people already consider egregious) dollars this looks like the path you're headed down.
0
dheffernanMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
edited July 2014
So, is Cryptic going to give any word at all on being able to purchase the Dragonborn race as an individual item?
They already have. The page says the pack gives exclusive access to the Dragonborn. They would at the very least open a can of worms should they ever go back on that, and very possibly they'd find themselves in court. It won't happen. The price of the pack might go down in the future but you are not going to see the race available any other way.
LOL! And this speaks volumes about you. Let's see: Price things that only 2% will buy so 98% can play for free - or go out of business and no game exists at all. Things that make you go hmmmm.
False dichotomy. Those are not the only options. We know this because not every MMO in existence fits that model. Cryptic actually runs two that don't. In fact, I would go so far as to say the whole "we have to cater to the dumb rich" strategy is likely a self-fulfilling prophecy, assuming that they're serious which I suspect they are not. It's much more likely that they're trying to find out just how hard they can squeeze.
@Venture-1@Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that far back. Yes, *that* Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. For me it was Tuesday.
Oh right and a race in Star Trek Online. Your other game. costs a whopping six dollars and is roughly equivalent to a race in this.
That's a very good point actually. Want to unlock a race in STO for you to use? 500 Zen (or was it 600, I dunno). Said race even has unique traits that may only be available for that race (although I'd really have to look to be sure on that one). And don't forget that it costs Zen, and not Real Money, so you can actually earn it via gameplay that won't take you 2 weeks to trade in as their economy isn't borked.
Hi There Is it planned to put the Dragonborn on the preview server soon. I'm keen to taste this character as a scourge warlock !!! I reckon that will be awesome
That's a very good point actually. Want to unlock a race in STO for you to use? 500 Zen (or was it 600, I dunno). Said race even has unique traits that may only be available for that race (although I'd really have to look to be sure on that one). And don't forget that it costs Zen, and not Real Money, so you can actually earn it via gameplay that won't take you 2 weeks to trade in as their economy isn't borked.
Neverwinter? $100.
It's 600 so you technically have to pay 10 bucks for it. But thats still way better than 75
The page says the pack gives exclusive access to the Dragonborn. They would at the very least open a can of worms should they ever go back on that, and very possibly they'd find themselves in court.
Has anybody ever taken a game producer to court over them throwing around the word exclusive? The word doesn't have "for all time" along with it or a footnote indicating that they can never change their minds. Pre-order and collector's edition exclusives seem to be increasingly made available publicly in games after some time passes.
I bought the full pack already and I wouldn't mind it if, and I suspect they *will* eventually release a "race-only" purchasable pack. The trick is that they have to determine the itemized value of each item in the pack to derive the sales price for the race only. But who am I to surmise on this stuff? I am told (earlier in the thread) that I and people like me have more money than sense.
Okay, then so be it. But apparently I'm still a lot happier than a lot of people here and I'll take happy over...whatever angst this is any day of the week.
I am willing to bet real money (whoops, more money, no sense again) that they will release a race-only option later.
LOL! And this speaks volumes about you. Let's see: Price things that only 2% will buy so 98% can play for free - or go out of business and no game exists at all. Things that make you go hmmmm.
That's a very good point actually. Want to unlock a race in STO for you to use? 500 Zen (or was it 600, I dunno). Said race even has unique traits that may only be available for that race (although I'd really have to look to be sure on that one). And don't forget that it costs Zen, and not Real Money, so you can actually earn it via gameplay that won't take you 2 weeks to trade in as their economy isn't borked.
Neverwinter? $100.
People are forgetting the Legacy of Romulus pack ($129 IIRC) and cash, not Zen. It did include every Starship (think: Mount) available to Rommies at the time but not much else (other than -cough- Titles,) and to be fair: they did not proclaim the Reman race was "exclusively available" in that pack, but it was the *only way* to get a Reman race at the time (I don't remember if it's now a stand-alone Zen market race).
Also STO is heavily subsidized by the optional subscription model; a hybrid revenue generation business model that keep Zen Market and Cash-only package prices lower than neverwinter, whereas Neverwinter is 100% free to play with zero subsidization whatsoever and must rely 100% only on Zen Market and cash-only packages as their only revenue source.
I'm just saying here that if we're going to compare the two games (Neverwinter and Star Trek Online) with regard to this package, then do it properly and make it apples-to-apples as much as possible rather than selective comparison, though I do not deny that the Legacy of Romulus package definitely has a far stronger inherent value than any package offered in Neverwinter.
Overall: it terms of value (which is subjective for everyone) I'd say everything offered at Star Trek Online and Neverwinter are relatively close in equal "what you get for your money" paradigms. However, not everyone feels the same way about everything, obviously. But I've been playing Cryptic games for going on six years and they've been pretty darned consistent throughout in terms of pricing, etc.
People are forgetting the Legacy of Romulus pack ($129 IIRC) and cash, not Zen. It did include every Starship (think: Mount) available to Rommies at the time but not much else (other than -cough- Titles,) and to be fair: they did not proclaim the Reman race was "exclusively available" in that pack, but it was the *only way* to get a Reman race at the time (I don't remember if it's now a stand-alone Zen market race).
Also STO is heavily subsidized by the optional subscription model; a hybrid revenue generation business model that keep Zen Market and Cash-only package prices lower than neverwinter, whereas Neverwinter is 100% free to play with zero subsidization whatsoever and must rely 100% only on Zen Market and cash-only packages as their only revenue source.
I'm just saying here that if we're going to compare the two games (Neverwinter and Star Trek Online) with regard to this package, then do it properly and make it apples-to-apples as much as possible rather than selective comparison, though I do not deny that the Legacy of Romulus package definitely has a far stronger inherent value than any package offered in Neverwinter.
Overall: it terms of value (which is subjective for everyone) I'd say everything offered at Star Trek Online and Neverwinter are relatively close in equal "what you get for your money" paradigms. However, not everyone feels the same way about everything, obviously. But I've been playing Cryptic games for going on six years and they've been pretty darned consistent throughout in terms of pricing, etc.
//justsaying
You got a few facts wrong the The "Liberated Borg Reman Bridge Officer" and some tittles where the the only items you could NOT buy (FYI they did later release them to Zen Store)
individual, also there are 10 ships in that pack which all sell for about 25$ US each totaling 250$ US which at this packs current prices of 159.99$ US still makes it a good deal or good value. also comparing ships to mounts is NOT an apples-to-apples comparisons
the only variation in mounts besides looks is movement speed Rank 1 Rank 2 ect where as your ships are your charters in space and that has been said by the STO Dev's many times SO you have Many more variations between a Tier 1 ship and a Tier 5 ship I don't think
I know anyone who would use a Tier 1 ship at Max Rank other then for a Joke. but in Neverwinter you could easily get away with using
a Rank 1 Mount at Max lvl.
I don't think
I know anyone who would use a Tier 1 ship at Max Rank other then for a Joke. but in Neverwinter you could easily get away with using
a Rank 1 Mount at Max lvl.
Your are correct, hence why I say comparing apples-to-apples as much as possible. My point being that people are bringing up STO for comparison and using selective comparison that give STO and unreliable, unfair, incorrect advantage in the comparison. This is all I'm trying to say.
In the end the value of the Dragonborn package is subjective and we each must decide for ourselves. Everyone has their own perspective based on countless life-variables. So I say enough with comparison with other game titles and whatnot. The simple fact is that this is what it is, nothing any of us say will change anything about what is here and now. It may influence future offers from Cryptic, but this one is pretty much set in stone right now.
Your are correct, hence why I say comparing apples-to-apples as much as possible. My point being that people are bringing up STO for comparison and using selective comparison that give STO and unreliable, unfair, incorrect advantage in the comparison. This is all I'm trying to say.
In the end the value of the Dragonborn package is subjective and we each must decide for ourselves. Everyone has their own perspective based on countless life-variables. So I say enough with comparison with other game titles and whatnot. The simple fact is that this is what it is, nothing any of us say will change anything about what is here and now. It may influence future offers from Cryptic, but this one is pretty much set in stone right now.
As I see it there are 2 Good arguments happening in this thread
Selling the Dragonborn as stand-alone Item
Adding more to the current Dragonborn Pack (Act wide Mount and Companion and AD)
Both arguments seam to be fair and reasonable request by the current player base, I think we all do our selves a dis-justice when we start fighting or arguing as to which of these 2 arguments have more merit, or even getting mad at those that have already bought this pack, I would say that everyone in this thread should instead be asking that Cryptic/PWE do Both. if enough voice are hard or we come together as large enough group Voting with our wallets then Change can be effected.
Both arguments seam to be fair and reasonable request by the current player base, I think we all do our selves a dis-justice when we start fighting or arguing as to which of these 2 arguments have more merit, or even getting mad at those that have already bought this pack, I would say that everyone in this thread should instead be asking that Cryptic/PWE do Both. if enough voice are hard or we come together as large enough group Voting with our wallets then Change can be effected.
Very well put and I concur. You, sir (or ma'am) are a voice of genuine reason. And to leave this thread with a very positive feeling, I'll make this response in it, to your thoughtful words, be my last and consider the thread closed (for me personally).
Okay, then so be it. But apparently I'm still a lot happier than a lot of people here and I'll take happy over...whatever angst this is any day of the week.
Off topic, but point to be made--> Are you? You might take another look at your most recent posts and consider again. Personally, this internet nonsense (especially in regards to video games) doesn't really matter to me. A bit irritated, sure, but angsty/unhappy because of a game? Heh. You are familiar with the concept of "projection" I'm sure. Might want to consider calming down and taking a more measured approach to your posts. Works wonders.
Edit -- Good advice for quite a few forum goers, by the way
"One day I will leave this world and dream myself to reality"--Chief Crazy Horse
"Do what thou Whilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the Law, Love under Will."--Aleister Crowley
As I see it there are 2 Good arguments happening in this thread
Selling the Dragonborn as stand-alone Item
Adding more to the current Dragonborn Pack (Act wide Mount and Companion and AD)
Both arguments seam to be fair and reasonable request by the current player base, I think we all do our selves a dis-justice when we start fighting or arguing as to which of these 2 arguments have more merit, or even getting mad at those that have already bought this pack, I would say that everyone in this thread should instead be asking that Cryptic/PWE do Both. if enough voice are hard or we come together as large enough group Voting with our wallets then Change can be effected.
See, I would be satisfied (i.e. spending money) if either of these scenarios came to pass. It's not the $75 that bug me, it's that I can't justify it.
Why should anyone buying the overpriced "exclusive" version get mad if they later decide to offer the race for a lower price alone? That would mean I should get angry because Steam decided to sell Bioshock Infinite at a 75% off sale price because I bought the overpriced "exclusive" pre-order Songbird Edition. It's ridiculous. You made your choice to buy something expensive and overpriced. So did I with the Songbird, but I won't sit here and try to feel better by claiming it wasn't overpriced. It was, but I am still happy to have bought it. Just as I do hope those who will buy this package won't regret it.
BUT, do you REALLY think it's fair to cut off most of the playerbase from a whole race? Why should we who live on minimum wage and can't dish out $100 at one time get punished for it? Sure, DO cater to the few rich people who choose to play F2P games instead of subscription MMO's. But give them some kind of fluff packages, not an "elite player race". I can't always pay $15 a month on a game so I play F2P and then pay maybe $10 one month and $20 a few months later. I have just as much right as rich 50 year old's without mortgages to have access to all races in this game. I am perfectly willing to pay to unlock it, I just wont spend a month worth of food money. I don't enjoy starving.
Very well put and I concur. You, sir (or ma'am) are a voice of genuine reason. And to leave this thread with a very positive feeling, I'll make this response in it, to your thoughtful words, be my last and consider the thread closed (for me personally).
Yes please do, I for one am getting tired of you calling anyone who disagrees with you "jealous", "shrill", or "disingenuous", yet nobody was name-slinging till you arrived. I love how anybody who DOES agree with you is "a voice of reason" and having "more integrity" than other commenters. Such arrogance!
You're in a minority here, and that's for a reason. You can justify your own reasoning, but trying to dismantle the reasoning of a communicative and concerned majority with ad hominem attacks just makes you look petty and small.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
... but the company is then skimming a little on top from people in countries that do not pay the highest rate of VAT in the EU. That is an unfortunate fact and I hypothesize that the company is doing this for ease of admin (not uncommon unfortunately) rather than levying the correct additional amount for each individual country.
And, as I have said, they are also charging the VAT on purchases from countries in Europe that are not in the EU.
Hoping for improvements...
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited August 2014
Well met everyone,
. . . Let's get off the topic of other game's business models please as while they may have some similarities, Neverwinter does not have the same model as STO or CO and even has a different, while slightly similar, F2P business model than Perfect World Entertainment's other games. Thanks!
. . . Please don't reply to this moderator notice, as doing so is not allowed. Instead, contact us via Private Messages to discuss forum moderation.
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl PWE Community Moderator
As I see it there are 2 Good arguments happening in this thread
Selling the Dragonborn as stand-alone Item
Adding more to the current Dragonborn Pack (Act wide Mount and Companion and AD)
Both arguments seam to be fair and reasonable request by the current player base, I think we all do our selves a dis-justice when we start fighting or arguing as to which of these 2 arguments have more merit, or even getting mad at those that have already bought this pack, I would say that everyone in this thread should instead be asking that Cryptic/PWE do Both. if enough voice are hard or we come together as large enough group Voting with our wallets then Change can be effected.
Option 2 wouldn't do anything for me. I play casually and simply would not pay 70€ for a race no matter how many mounts, companions and other stuff they add as I have no interest in any of it.
Ixalmaris, that is fine. But option two would be a good option for a lot of people, PWE/Cryptic included. They are looking at it as 2% of the people will pay $75, and that will provide X revenue, which is the goal. However, many people here feel that $75 is way too much for what you are getting.
I would be happy being one of the "stupid" 2%'ers, if there was some reason to do it.
Ixalmaris, that is fine. But option two would be a good option for a lot of people, PWE/Cryptic included. They are looking at it as 2% of the people will pay $75, and that will provide X revenue, which is the goal. However, many people here feel that $75 is way too much for what you are getting.
I would be happy being one of the "stupid" 2%'ers, if there was some reason to do it.
You know, the best way would be to do both. Have all of that stuff being buyable separately and have pack as it is now which is discounted compared to the single items (doesn't mean it still can't be $90), just like STO does with Legacy of Romulus.
But as zebular put it, this isn't STO and the business model of Neverwinter apparently is centered around selling overpriced stuff in packs by adding random things so that it seems more valuable and don't give the option to pay less for whatever you want from the pack, hoping that people who want some piece from the pack to cave in and pay the full price.
Exactly Ixalmaris. I did mean to imply that both should be there.
I fully acknowledge that I am that type of person, that will cave and pay because I want something from a pack. However, I can't do so with this pack. I can't even trick myself into buying it!
Exactly Ixalmaris. I did mean to imply that both should be there.
I fully acknowledge that I am that type of person, that will cave and pay because I want something from a pack. However, I can't do so with this pack. I can't even trick myself into buying it!
Likewise. I bought the HOTN* pack because there was enough in there that I could lie to myself. This isn't even close- it'd be a hard sell at one tenth of the price. When I saw the headline, my attitide was "oh, shiny!". I clicked through, saw the price and wondered if there had been a very unfortunate mistake. I'm probably a minor whale (maybe a fun one like a Beluga), but I have to say that I can't see anyone but the most cake-marryingly crazy fanboy finding a way to rationalise this one away. Mind=blown. It seems to be one of a recent series of signs and portents, and they do not look good.
* I am, though you wouldn't know, as the forum title has never worked for me, and raising a ticket using the suggested language did not help either, as PWE "support" are essentially a waste of space.
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Comments
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/12/15/free-to-play-mechwarrior-online-offends-players-with-500-golden-mechs/
It means nothing to me anymore. And frankly when your last race pack was 60(edit: which a lot of people already consider egregious) dollars this looks like the path you're headed down.
They already have. The page says the pack gives exclusive access to the Dragonborn. They would at the very least open a can of worms should they ever go back on that, and very possibly they'd find themselves in court. It won't happen. The price of the pack might go down in the future but you are not going to see the race available any other way.
False dichotomy. Those are not the only options. We know this because not every MMO in existence fits that model. Cryptic actually runs two that don't. In fact, I would go so far as to say the whole "we have to cater to the dumb rich" strategy is likely a self-fulfilling prophecy, assuming that they're serious which I suspect they are not. It's much more likely that they're trying to find out just how hard they can squeeze.
Neverwinter? $100.
Hi There
It's 600 so you technically have to pay 10 bucks for it. But thats still way better than 75
People are forgetting the Legacy of Romulus pack ($129 IIRC) and cash, not Zen. It did include every Starship (think: Mount) available to Rommies at the time but not much else (other than -cough- Titles,) and to be fair: they did not proclaim the Reman race was "exclusively available" in that pack, but it was the *only way* to get a Reman race at the time (I don't remember if it's now a stand-alone Zen market race).
Also STO is heavily subsidized by the optional subscription model; a hybrid revenue generation business model that keep Zen Market and Cash-only package prices lower than neverwinter, whereas Neverwinter is 100% free to play with zero subsidization whatsoever and must rely 100% only on Zen Market and cash-only packages as their only revenue source.
I'm just saying here that if we're going to compare the two games (Neverwinter and Star Trek Online) with regard to this package, then do it properly and make it apples-to-apples as much as possible rather than selective comparison, though I do not deny that the Legacy of Romulus package definitely has a far stronger inherent value than any package offered in Neverwinter.
Overall: it terms of value (which is subjective for everyone) I'd say everything offered at Star Trek Online and Neverwinter are relatively close in equal "what you get for your money" paradigms. However, not everyone feels the same way about everything, obviously. But I've been playing Cryptic games for going on six years and they've been pretty darned consistent throughout in terms of pricing, etc.
//justsaying
You got a few facts wrong the The "Liberated Borg Reman Bridge Officer" and some tittles where the the only items you could NOT buy (FYI they did later release them to Zen Store)
individual, also there are 10 ships in that pack which all sell for about 25$ US each totaling 250$ US which at this packs current prices of 159.99$ US still makes it a good deal or good value. also comparing ships to mounts is NOT an apples-to-apples comparisons
the only variation in mounts besides looks is movement speed Rank 1 Rank 2 ect where as your ships are your charters in space and that has been said by the STO Dev's many times SO you have Many more variations between a Tier 1 ship and a Tier 5 ship I don't think
I know anyone who would use a Tier 1 ship at Max Rank other then for a Joke. but in Neverwinter you could easily get away with using
a Rank 1 Mount at Max lvl.
Your are correct, hence why I say comparing apples-to-apples as much as possible. My point being that people are bringing up STO for comparison and using selective comparison that give STO and unreliable, unfair, incorrect advantage in the comparison. This is all I'm trying to say.
In the end the value of the Dragonborn package is subjective and we each must decide for ourselves. Everyone has their own perspective based on countless life-variables. So I say enough with comparison with other game titles and whatnot. The simple fact is that this is what it is, nothing any of us say will change anything about what is here and now. It may influence future offers from Cryptic, but this one is pretty much set in stone right now.
Precisely - STO is STO and Neverwinter is Neverwinter.
Here's where to buy it:
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/game-pack/detail/495-dragonborn-legend-pack
As I see it there are 2 Good arguments happening in this thread
- Selling the Dragonborn as stand-alone Item
- Adding more to the current Dragonborn Pack (Act wide Mount and Companion and AD)
Both arguments seam to be fair and reasonable request by the current player base, I think we all do our selves a dis-justice when we start fighting or arguing as to which of these 2 arguments have more merit, or even getting mad at those that have already bought this pack, I would say that everyone in this thread should instead be asking that Cryptic/PWE do Both. if enough voice are hard or we come together as large enough group Voting with our wallets then Change can be effected.Ty, but link is broken for me
Sorry, we cannot find the webpage you have requested.
Please check the URL again or return to our homepage."
Very well put and I concur. You, sir (or ma'am) are a voice of genuine reason. And to leave this thread with a very positive feeling, I'll make this response in it, to your thoughtful words, be my last and consider the thread closed (for me personally).
Off topic, but point to be made--> Are you? You might take another look at your most recent posts and consider again. Personally, this internet nonsense (especially in regards to video games) doesn't really matter to me. A bit irritated, sure, but angsty/unhappy because of a game? Heh. You are familiar with the concept of "projection" I'm sure. Might want to consider calming down and taking a more measured approach to your posts. Works wonders.
Edit -- Good advice for quite a few forum goers, by the way
"Do what thou Whilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the Law, Love under Will."--Aleister Crowley
See, I would be satisfied (i.e. spending money) if either of these scenarios came to pass. It's not the $75 that bug me, it's that I can't justify it.
BUT, do you REALLY think it's fair to cut off most of the playerbase from a whole race? Why should we who live on minimum wage and can't dish out $100 at one time get punished for it? Sure, DO cater to the few rich people who choose to play F2P games instead of subscription MMO's. But give them some kind of fluff packages, not an "elite player race". I can't always pay $15 a month on a game so I play F2P and then pay maybe $10 one month and $20 a few months later. I have just as much right as rich 50 year old's without mortgages to have access to all races in this game. I am perfectly willing to pay to unlock it, I just wont spend a month worth of food money. I don't enjoy starving.
Yes please do, I for one am getting tired of you calling anyone who disagrees with you "jealous", "shrill", or "disingenuous", yet nobody was name-slinging till you arrived. I love how anybody who DOES agree with you is "a voice of reason" and having "more integrity" than other commenters. Such arrogance!
You're in a minority here, and that's for a reason. You can justify your own reasoning, but trying to dismantle the reasoning of a communicative and concerned majority with ad hominem attacks just makes you look petty and small.
And, as I have said, they are also charging the VAT on purchases from countries in Europe that are not in the EU.
. . . Let's get off the topic of other game's business models please as while they may have some similarities, Neverwinter does not have the same model as STO or CO and even has a different, while slightly similar, F2P business model than Perfect World Entertainment's other games. Thanks!
. . . Please don't reply to this moderator notice, as doing so is not allowed. Instead, contact us via Private Messages to discuss forum moderation.
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl
PWE Community Moderator
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Option 2 wouldn't do anything for me. I play casually and simply would not pay 70€ for a race no matter how many mounts, companions and other stuff they add as I have no interest in any of it.
I would be happy being one of the "stupid" 2%'ers, if there was some reason to do it.
You know, the best way would be to do both. Have all of that stuff being buyable separately and have pack as it is now which is discounted compared to the single items (doesn't mean it still can't be $90), just like STO does with Legacy of Romulus.
But as zebular put it, this isn't STO and the business model of Neverwinter apparently is centered around selling overpriced stuff in packs by adding random things so that it seems more valuable and don't give the option to pay less for whatever you want from the pack, hoping that people who want some piece from the pack to cave in and pay the full price.
I fully acknowledge that I am that type of person, that will cave and pay because I want something from a pack. However, I can't do so with this pack. I can't even trick myself into buying it!
Likewise. I bought the HOTN* pack because there was enough in there that I could lie to myself. This isn't even close- it'd be a hard sell at one tenth of the price. When I saw the headline, my attitide was "oh, shiny!". I clicked through, saw the price and wondered if there had been a very unfortunate mistake. I'm probably a minor whale (maybe a fun one like a Beluga), but I have to say that I can't see anyone but the most cake-marryingly crazy fanboy finding a way to rationalise this one away. Mind=blown. It seems to be one of a recent series of signs and portents, and they do not look good.
* I am, though you wouldn't know, as the forum title has never worked for me, and raising a ticket using the suggested language did not help either, as PWE "support" are essentially a waste of space.
I can see your HotN title just fine?
If you have another issue, please PM Akromatik or myself and we'll help you get the resolve needed.
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl
PWE Community Moderator
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]