-You have a 5% chance when attacking a foe to apply Dragonborn Fury to yourself for 6 seconds, increasing your Power and Critical Strike by 3%.
-You receive 5% more healing from all sources.
A Dragonborn GWF will be MILES stronger then any other Race as a GWF.
This is a PAYED Competitive advantage whether you agree or disagree, Specially in all end game Premades.
For PVE DPS Half-Orc is still king. Can't compare a stable 5% critical severity with a 5% chance for a 6 second +1% to DPS. There is just no comparison. Also a Dwarf should be still better for off-tanking. For PVP I think Halfling is still top. Dragonborn looks like the "jack of all trades" race, if you get what I mean.
edit: On topic: The price for the pack sounds too high for what it is to even bother...
Why?
Just curious.
What would you like to see in this pack to replace the 'value' of the mount and companion?
Because there already are FOUR other packs that have mounts and companions. There have been countless mounts and companions given away willy-nilly. The last thing I want is *another* mount or companion. Having artifacts and other wanted-gear makes this pack something fresh and not "just another stupid freebie Mount and Companion pack". Yes, this is my opinion and I maybe speak for some others, but not everyone. However, I am also Cryptic's target customer: I spend a lot of money on this game, likely a lot more than most (save Botsters and those types).
I am not bragging or anything; you're curious so I am simply answering your curiosity. If you want a pack that comes with a Mount and Companion: you already have four to choose from.
Having artifacts and other wanted-gear makes this pack something fresh
If you want a pack that comes with a Mount and Companion: you already have four to choose from.
Those other 4 you are talking about DO NOT come with the Dragonborn which I think is the main focus of this thread.
As for something fresh, the Artifact is nice I guess, but I already have 7+ on each character I play (sadly with only slots for 3). Many of the items in the pack will already be available in game through less expensive means (they are already on the Preview Server). Two appearance sets would be a nice thing is these two weren't so darn ugly (unlike the one from the Feywild Pack which I find quite attractive).
As you said these are just opinions. I am also part of the demographic you talk about, as are many of those here in this thread, but it seems more of them are unhappy with this pack then are happy (just my observation from 48 pages).
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imaginaerum1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 378Arc User
Because there already are FOUR other packs that have mounts and companions. There have been countless mounts and companions given away willy-nilly. The last thing I want is *another* mount or companion. Having artifacts and other wanted-gear makes this pack something fresh and not "just another stupid freebie Mount and Companion pack". Yes, this is my opinion and I maybe speak for some others, but not everyone. However, I am also Cryptic's target customer: I spend a lot of money on this game, likely a lot more than most (save Botsters and those types).
I am not bragging or anything; you're curious so I am simply answering your curiosity. If you want a pack that comes with a Mount and Companion: you already have four to choose from.
The mounts and companions that have been "given away willy-nilly" are not good ones. You have to pay a ton of ADs to upgrade them. The ones that came in the previous packs were 110% mounts, and purple companions with good active bonuses (wolf is 5% chance to interrupt when attacking, sylph is 50% control resist). Thus, I do not put much weight on your complaint that there are too many of them given away already. True, if you bought the previous two similar packs, you already have them, but the question isn't "what made prior packs worthwhile" but "what makes this one worthwhile".
Artifacts and other wanted gear would indeed make this pack fresh. But that's not what you get. You get artifact (singular) and a good bag (singular). You also get a bunch of mostly-useless rubbish.
Even so, I would have been willing to spend $60 on this pack, the price of the two packs I have previously bought. At the current price point, though, I'm basically making a choice between 1) Buying a good new game, 2) Subbing to a game for between 5 and 8 months, depending on subscription rates, or 3) Getting one new playable race, one so-so artifact, and one good bag. I just can't justify option 3 at this price point. It's not that I don't have the money, it's just not worth the money as it stands.
Now, if they had made the bag account wide, I'd have snapped this up. That would have made it worthwhile, and yes, "something fresh", but as it stands, it may look fresh on the surface, but it's rotten inside.
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dheffernanMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
edited July 2014
This is your opinion and that's fair. I am not of the same opinion, I hope you find that also to fair.
I don't, because you can't back that up. If you add up the value of what's in that pack using any reasonable criteria it falls short.
If you want to buy it anyway that's your prerogative, of course, but that doesn't mean it's a good decision to do so.
@Venture-1@Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that far back. Yes, *that* Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. For me it was Tuesday.
Lowering the price does not necessarily equal more sales or more profit. If they cut the price in half, that means they need to convince double the number of people to buy it. It's easier to get 5.000 people to buy something than it is to get 10.000 people to buy something to make the same amount of money. Since I have no interest in the Dragonborn race, even at 50$ with a mount and companion in the pack I still would not buy it. I am sure I am not the only one with that point of view.
Lowering the price does not necessarily equal more sales or more profit. If they cut the price in half, that means they need to convince double the number of people to buy it. It's easier to get 5.000 people to buy something than it is to get 10.000 people to buy something to make the same amount of money. Since I have no interest in the Dragonborn race, even at 50$ with a mount and companion in the pack I still would not buy it. I am sure I am not the only one with that point of view.
If you'd read the entire thread, it's very obvious that they'd make more money by lowering the price to around 50$
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bazgcMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 184Bounty Hunter
If you'd read the entire thread, it's very obvious that they'd make more money by lowering the price to around 50$
People saying they'd buy it for $50 (or equivalent) is not a guaranteed sale at $50. What's to stop those people who said they'd buy it at $50 then complaining that it's $50 and not $35?
My Foundry Quests:
The Silver Sword - NW-DEIPWYISA - Daily Qualified A Relaxing Stay - NW-DEEYNZYZ9 - Daily Qualified but going to be updated
Having artifacts and other wanted-gear makes this pack something fresh
I would be interested in knowing more about these other items and whether they are Account-Wide for ALL characters or only usable with Dragonborn characters.
Are ALL the items redeemable by all 14 of my characters?
I am also Cryptic's target customer: I spend a lot of money on this game, likely a lot more than most
No offence, but you mean you're a mug with more money than sense? Did you not say you are 52? So am I. You should know better.
It's not a question of whether we can afford to pay it; it is a question of whether it is worth the price they are asking. It's a fairly transparent and juvenile marketing strategy to make something massively overpriced, exclusive and rare, and bank on there being enough mugs who will pay for it as "there is one dragonborn every minute".
But I'd have thought such a ploy would be more likely to work on 12 to 15 year olds rather than middle-aged grandfathers?
I do agree, though, that I do not need ANOTHER account-wide Epic mount. A companion with a really good active bonus might be worth-while, and an Artefact piques my interest.
~
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bazgcMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 184Bounty Hunter
The stats are correct but the cooldown is 120 secs as per other Legendary artifacts. Note that ALL legendary artifacts are getting a boost of 50 to each stat come M4.
My Foundry Quests:
The Silver Sword - NW-DEIPWYISA - Daily Qualified A Relaxing Stay - NW-DEEYNZYZ9 - Daily Qualified but going to be updated
The stats are correct but the cooldown is 120 secs as per other Legendary artifacts. Note that ALL legendary artifacts are getting a boost of 50 to each stat come M4.
Thanks for that - those are good stats.
But is this Artefact redeemable by ALL characters?
And what rank is it when you first get it?
~
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bazgcMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 184Bounty Hunter
I don't, because you can't back that up. If you add up the value of what's in that pack using any reasonable criteria it falls short.
If you want to buy it anyway that's your prerogative, of course, but that doesn't mean it's a good decision to do so.
Ditto. If you expect me to "back-up" my *opinion* then I expect you to "back-up" yours. Seriously, you need to read what you write. Hence we are at an impasse, you have my permission to take the last word on how your opinion is fact and mine is not.
I find it genuinely humorous how so many of these comments "complain" that the Studio will "make more money" if they lower the price. Bunk, I say. None of you care how much money they make. You, like me, are simply selfish: you want the pack, but you want to spend less to get it. That;s all these particular comments are really saying.
As for the observation that 'most' of the comments in this thread are complaints about the price, sure they are. Because the disgruntled always are louder and more vocal that the rest. It's why most threads in these forums are like that: negative in general. The fact is Cryptic will make a lot of money with this pack at the current price point. They may have future sales on it, but they'll never permanently lower the price on it, so if all the comments about how they'll "make more money by lowering the price" are hopeful attempts to influence the powers-that-be to lower the price, save your breath. It's not going to happen.
Totally agree with most of the posts here in that the Dragonborn pack isn't worth the asking price and this needs to be reviewed before I will consider buying it. I didn't buy the Hero of the North pack for the same reason, although I do have the Guardian and Feywild packs.
But I'd have thought such a ploy would be more likely to work on 12 to 15 year olds rather than middle-aged grandfathers?
~
I disagree with this comment purely because 12 - 15 year olds are unlikely to have the money in the first place, unless of course they can successfully 'con' their parents into buying. I do agree though that it is a question of value for money rather than mere affordability. I'm 50 myself and have been mortgage-free for two years, but the prices of some of these packs are nothing short of ridiculous.
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wmtrexlerMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You, like me, are simply selfish: you want the pack, but you want to spend less to get it. That's all these particular comments are really saying.
You are only partially correct.
It is truer to say that we want the dragonborn. We want to pay less than cost of the pack because we do not feel that what is in the pack is worth the price. And because of this we will not purchase the pack.
But I'd have thought such a ploy would be more likely to work on 12 to 15 year olds rather than middle-aged grandfathers?
Actually, that's wrong for almost all F2P games.
F2P games thrive on so called whales. These are almost exclusively adults with more money to spend than sense on how to spend it, and nothing to do except play video games (reasons vary - bored housewives, MMO addicts, retired people, etc). It's in a F2P publisher's best interest to entrap as many of these whales as possible, because they will often end up spending thousands of dollars on ingame items. The rest of the players are only small fish. Probably good for a few bucks here and there, but either lacking disposible income (like younger players) or simply more discerning about what they spend their money on. Most F2P games needs lots of small fish to stay alive, but the big bucks come from the whales so it makes a lot of sense to sell certain advantages at greatly inflated prices. The fish won't buy it since they usually only buy the smaller items anyway, but the whales don't care about the price as long as they get what they want. They would buy it even at twice the normal price - which is exactly what is happening here. The majority of the small fish won't buy the pack even at $50 since they're not willing to spend that much on a F2P game to begin with, but a whale will be happy to spend $100 on that same pack.
Now, I'm a small fish myself. Over the year (more or less) that I've played this game I've made the occasional purchase. A character slot here, a mount there, a couple of companions, etc. And I think that's entirely reasonable, especially considering the amount of time I've spent on the game. But I am not willing to pay $100 (or even $50) for a pack that is filled with mostly stuff I don't need or want. I'd pay like $20 for just the Dragonborn race without complaining, but I'm not interested in all the overpriced filler in the big pack. That's why I think it's a good idea to add a Zen store version of just the Dragonborn race. Of course this is mainly self-interest because it'd mean I'd get what I want, but I'm not the only one who feels this way. With a separate Dragonborn race option, the small fish still get to experience the new race without dropping more money of a F2P game than they're comfortable with, while the whales get a lot of extras including a bunch of vanity items which most whales enjoy more than little fish anyway.
And all that is completely ignoring the relative value of the pack in question. As many people have pointed out before, this new pack offers far less value for your money than the items in it would suggest, and is significantly more expensive than comparable packs. To me, that just seems like an easy way to squeeze the whales (who -as said before- don't care about paying twice an item's value as long as they get the item in the end) for more money. Some people are perfectly ok with that, while others have the common sense to at least notice the discrepancy.
That said, I'm not here to dictate how PW should run its games. I'm sure they know what they're doing a lot better than I do. I just think they could do so without causing this kind of controversy in their playerbase.
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imaginaerum1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 378Arc User
What I saw before said that the artifact was one-time-only. Did they change that? Or were people wrong before?
For me this is an important distinction, because the main problem I have with this package is that so much of it was claimable once only.
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bazgcMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 184Bounty Hunter
What I saw before said that the artifact was one-time-only. Did they change that? Or were people wrong before?
For me this is an important distinction, because the main problem I have with this package is that so much of it was claimable once only.
From the pack page on the Arc website:
"Each character on your account can acquire a Heart of the Red Dragon from the Dragonborn Legend Pack."
My Foundry Quests:
The Silver Sword - NW-DEIPWYISA - Daily Qualified A Relaxing Stay - NW-DEEYNZYZ9 - Daily Qualified but going to be updated
People saying they'd buy it for $50 (or equivalent) is not a guaranteed sale at $50. What's to stop those people who said they'd buy it at $50 then complaining that it's $50 and not $35?
Some people would complain if they were hung with a new rope. The thing is; similar packs offer similar items for around $40-$60, the $100 and $200 packs offer mounts and companions along with the other items. All people are saying is if they are to pay this much for a race at least have a mount and companion or lower the price to that of the ones similar to it.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
I would be interested in knowing more about these other items and whether they are Account-Wide for ALL characters or only usable with Dragonborn characters.
Are ALL the items redeemable by all 14 of my characters?
Most of the items are single-claim. It's unlikely that the two permanent enchants or the bag will bind (except to account), so they can be shuffled around at-will.
Somebody already mentioned that the enchants are actually all things you can make via the ToD campaign, though I've not personally verified this.
Ring, fashions, and artifact are account unlocks. They didn't bother to tell us about the Bahamut items, which is an appalling lack of information for such an expensive purchase.
we want the dragonborn. We want to pay less than cost of the pack because we do not feel that what is in the pack is worth the price. And because of this we will not purchase the pack.
Exactly. The only thing I truly want from the pack is availability of the new race, which I would happily pay $10-$15 for. The bag would be nice as well, which would naturally boost the price a bit, say to $30 or so. Couldn't care less about the rest of the stuff.
It's not that I want items on the cheap, it's that I refuse to pay a ludicrous price for things I don't want simply because there's no other way to obtain that which is actually desired. Which is exactly what nearly (if not) all of the complaint posts say. It helps to read the words on the screen without the filter of one's own preconceptions.
"One day I will leave this world and dream myself to reality"--Chief Crazy Horse
"Do what thou Whilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the Law, Love under Will."--Aleister Crowley
It is truer to say that we want the dragonborn. We want to pay less than cost of the pack because we do not feel that what is in the pack is worth the price. And because of this we will not purchase the pack.
I'll concur with your assessment. This is a fair statement.
F2P games thrive on so called whales. These are almost exclusively adults with more money to spend than sense on how to spend it, and nothing to do except play video games (reasons vary - bored housewives, MMO addicts, retired people, etc). It's in a F2P publisher's best interest to entrap as many of these whales as possible, because they will often end up spending thousands of dollars on ingame items. The rest of the players are only small fish. Probably good for a few bucks here and there, but either lacking disposible income (like younger players) or simply more discerning about what they spend their money on. Most F2P games needs lots of small fish to stay alive, but the big bucks come from the whales so it makes a lot of sense to sell certain advantages at greatly inflated prices. The fish won't buy it since they usually only buy the smaller items anyway, but the whales don't care about the price as long as they get what they want. They would buy it even at twice the normal price - which is exactly what is happening here. The majority of the small fish won't buy the pack even at $50 since they're not willing to spend that much on a F2P game to begin with, but a whale will be happy to spend $100 on that same pack.
This is spot-on, though it does omit some of the reasons a "whale" might have so much discretionary cash and it's rather disingenuous to suggest we "have more money than sense". I can assure you I weigh my purchases carefully - in this case (the buying decision process) is a matter of perceived value. If I perceive the value as being worth the asking price then I will consider how much my want warrants the purchase.
I'm also of the mindset that I'd rather pay you to wash my car, mow my lawn, clean my gutters when I could easily to that stuff myself. Does this mean I have more money than sense? If you think so then I suppose it's so.
However, in general this description is exactly spot-on.
As for myself: $75 okay. But the full $99 and I'd pass on it. It also just happens that the timing was right for me as I set a specific monthly budget for myself - (which all used to go to Star Trek Online, but now Neverwinter).
Oh, and as for a Zen Market version of the Dragonborn Race only... I am of the belief Cryptic Studios, as a going concern for-profit business would be outright unwise (read: downright stupid) to not offer such, which is why I suspect they will. But it also makes good business sense to not release such a thing so soon to maximize sales of the full package as there will be a lot of fence-sitters who will buy the pack while it's on sale, but NOT buy the pack at all if they know there will be a race-only option coming later.
But even if they sell it for 2000 Zen, there will be complaints it's "too expensive for the lack of value".
As for myself: $75 okay. But the full $99 and I'd pass on it.
And it's even worse in Europe with the higher prices there.
I'm in a similar category as some of the earlier posters - 51 years old, and with a substantial amount of spare cash... not sure if I'd call myself a "whale", but I have spent somewhere around $1000 on the game - way more than most players, I guess, but it's actually less than $1 per hour of playing - which actually makes this quite cheap, compared to some of my other hobbies.
I like getting value for my money, and the fact is that this particular package just does not qualify for me. at 50 Euro, I might consider it, at 35 Euro I would buy it immediately - but there is just too little in the package that interest me to justify the current price. Artifacts? Sorry, got too many of those already. One 30 slot bag? Sorry, got more than enough bag space already. Fashion items? Sorry, does not fit with the RP image of my characters. Gemfinder enchant? Sorry, quite happy with my Greater Fey Blessing enchants. Extra character slot? Sorry, already have two or three unused ones. Race change token? Uh, no, thank you - I created my chars the way I visualize them for RP purposes - not for minmaxing.
The draconic enchants and the glyphs are just nice, nothing more...So, what does this leave ... the race itself, the Bahamut Regalia and the Ring of Dragonslaying. Sure, those are things I would be willing to pay for - but not what is being asked.
Sorry, PWE - I have given you quite a bit of money, but if you want more from me, you have to give me value in return.
Hoping for improvements...
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dheffernanMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
edited July 2014
Ditto. If you expect me to "back-up" my *opinion* then I expect you to "back-up" yours.
I and others already have; it is not hard to show that the contents of the pack are not worth the cost. N.b. that (at least in my case) such calculations were made using the assumption that current Zen store prices are fair. Some might call that a shaky premise but it's in favor of the company so I went with it.
Bunk, I say. None of you care how much money they make. You, like me, are simply selfish: you want the pack, but you want to spend less to get it.
Again, many respondents had already pointed out that they (and I) don't want the pack. We want the Dragonborn. (I do want a race change token for one character. I'll be buying it with Z raised through the ZAX, burdensome as that may be.) This is the point. They took a bunch of stuff they couldn't have given away and bundled it with a highly-anticipated and desired item to inflate said item's price. Do you honestly think such behavior should be rewarded?
The fact is Cryptic will make a lot of money with this pack at the current price point.
That remains to be seen. If we're lucky it will tank. If it does sell you can expect more of the same treatment in the future.
@Venture-1@Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that far back. Yes, *that* Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. For me it was Tuesday.
And it's even worse in Europe with the higher prices there.
I agree with you. However I do have one pet peeve - and yes, I know it's personal problem for me but I simply have to voice it:
European people do NOT pay "higher prices". You pay the exact same price everyone else pays based on the current exchange rate for your currency against the United States Dollar.
In other words: your are not "paying higher prices", rather "it is costing you more". There IS a difference; you can thank your elected governments for the ridiculous tax laws they have imposed on you. It costs you more to buy stuff because of these extra taxes and I think it's also pretty bogus that you must always pay the tax, then plead your case for a refund when they shouldn't apply. I do know what you are saying, but get it right: You are paying *extra* taxes, hence your not paying "higher prices" - you are paying "higher cost".
Saying "higher prices" makes it sound like Cryptic (or any reseller) is intentionally raising your price just because you're in Eurozone.
//rant off
(sorry for the off-topic comment, but my teeth are getting worn down from grinding every time I see this phrase). LOL
I and others already have; it is not hard to show that the contents of the pack are not worth the cost.
Wow. So your *opinion" is fact and everyone else who carries a different opinion is flat-wrong (such as my feeling for myself they are worth the cost)? Okay. You show your colors. You have my permission to take the last word on my argument against your perceived sense of reality.
PRO-TIP: When making such broad statements such as "it is not hard to show that the contents of the pack are not worth the cost." - it's carries a lot more credibility and weight if you add "from my view" or "in my opinion" or "the way I see it".
wmtrexlerMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
@angrysprite
In my opinion Cryptic itself feels that the pack is overpriced. They show that by putting it on sale even before it is available (i.e not available until mod 4 is released).
In a previous post you said that you got the pack because it was on sale and that you would think twice before getting the pack at full price.
As for myself: $75 okay. But the full $99 and I'd pass on it. It also just happens that the timing was right for me as I set a specific monthly budget for myself - (which all used to go to Star Trek Online, but now Neverwinter).
@angrysprite
In my opinion Cryptic itself feels that the pack is overpriced. They show that by putting it on sale even before it is available (i.e not available until mod 4 is released).
In a previous post you said that you got the pack because it was on sale and that you would think twice before getting the pack at full price.
Correct. I'll do the $75, but not the $100. Which also is the very reason WHY it is on sale: to entice people with the same mindset to make the purchase, not because "even they think the price is too high". Anyone who actually understands business and marketing strategy understands this. it was the exact same strategy in January and February 2013: Hero and Guardian packs: not on sale, but rather offered two special things: guaranteed Closed-Beta access and (the no longer available) "Founder" in-game title.
I still use that title on every one of my characters to this day - even my temporary play-testing characters. TO ME that was part of the value of the Hero of the North package (I couldn't care any less about the Drow race myself, but I did want the Spider Mount).
Hence, and what I've been generally trying to express throughout this entire thread: Value and worth are different things to different people. Thus, if something is not valuable or have worth to you, does not mean everyone else feels the same way and neither of you are wrong about it. However, many of the commenters in this thread apparently believe their sense of value and worth is far superior than those who feel differently (at least this is how they're expressing these feelings).
After all, I have been described as having "more money than sense" because I actually find value and worth in this package - for myself (and have never debunked anyone else not finding the same worth or value). Okay, so be it. (Note: I've only debunked the argument that someone else's opinion is fact and my opinion is not).
I am amazed at how so many people actually describe (and perhaps genuinely feel) that the company is their enemy, or intentionally trying to screw them over, because they're "so greedy with all their cash-grabs". It's business. Cash-grabs are the end-game of all commercial businesses, this is no secret. Greed is not a bad word: you, dear players, are "greedy" for demanding the company lower the price of this pack because you're "too-cheap" to spend the money (perceived value and worth aside).
So however you describe the company what goes around comes around. It's a simple teet-for-tat scenario.
Fact: we all are "greedy", no one wants to spend more money than they have to, but most importantly: all this stuff is just PIXEL-CANDY and nothing more. hahahahah!
I think I've made my points pretty clearly and this argument is all academic at this point really. So hence forth I'll continue lurking and reading, but I'll let this comment be my own last word on it:
Whether you buy the pack because you find value in it, or you refuse to buy the back because, for you, there is not enough (or no) value in it: you're all in the right, no one is in the wrong here. Not even Cryptic.
Comments
No mount
No companion
No buy
For PVE DPS Half-Orc is still king. Can't compare a stable 5% critical severity with a 5% chance for a 6 second +1% to DPS. There is just no comparison. Also a Dwarf should be still better for off-tanking. For PVP I think Halfling is still top. Dragonborn looks like the "jack of all trades" race, if you get what I mean.
edit: On topic: The price for the pack sounds too high for what it is to even bother...
Because there already are FOUR other packs that have mounts and companions. There have been countless mounts and companions given away willy-nilly. The last thing I want is *another* mount or companion. Having artifacts and other wanted-gear makes this pack something fresh and not "just another stupid freebie Mount and Companion pack". Yes, this is my opinion and I maybe speak for some others, but not everyone. However, I am also Cryptic's target customer: I spend a lot of money on this game, likely a lot more than most (save Botsters and those types).
I am not bragging or anything; you're curious so I am simply answering your curiosity. If you want a pack that comes with a Mount and Companion: you already have four to choose from.
This is your opinion and that's fair. I am not of the same opinion, I hope you find that also to fair.
Those other 4 you are talking about DO NOT come with the Dragonborn which I think is the main focus of this thread.
As for something fresh, the Artifact is nice I guess, but I already have 7+ on each character I play (sadly with only slots for 3). Many of the items in the pack will already be available in game through less expensive means (they are already on the Preview Server). Two appearance sets would be a nice thing is these two weren't so darn ugly (unlike the one from the Feywild Pack which I find quite attractive).
As you said these are just opinions. I am also part of the demographic you talk about, as are many of those here in this thread, but it seems more of them are unhappy with this pack then are happy (just my observation from 48 pages).
The mounts and companions that have been "given away willy-nilly" are not good ones. You have to pay a ton of ADs to upgrade them. The ones that came in the previous packs were 110% mounts, and purple companions with good active bonuses (wolf is 5% chance to interrupt when attacking, sylph is 50% control resist). Thus, I do not put much weight on your complaint that there are too many of them given away already. True, if you bought the previous two similar packs, you already have them, but the question isn't "what made prior packs worthwhile" but "what makes this one worthwhile".
Artifacts and other wanted gear would indeed make this pack fresh. But that's not what you get. You get artifact (singular) and a good bag (singular). You also get a bunch of mostly-useless rubbish.
Even so, I would have been willing to spend $60 on this pack, the price of the two packs I have previously bought. At the current price point, though, I'm basically making a choice between 1) Buying a good new game, 2) Subbing to a game for between 5 and 8 months, depending on subscription rates, or 3) Getting one new playable race, one so-so artifact, and one good bag. I just can't justify option 3 at this price point. It's not that I don't have the money, it's just not worth the money as it stands.
Now, if they had made the bag account wide, I'd have snapped this up. That would have made it worthwhile, and yes, "something fresh", but as it stands, it may look fresh on the surface, but it's rotten inside.
I don't, because you can't back that up. If you add up the value of what's in that pack using any reasonable criteria it falls short.
If you want to buy it anyway that's your prerogative, of course, but that doesn't mean it's a good decision to do so.
People saying they'd buy it for $50 (or equivalent) is not a guaranteed sale at $50. What's to stop those people who said they'd buy it at $50 then complaining that it's $50 and not $35?
The Silver Sword - NW-DEIPWYISA - Daily Qualified
A Relaxing Stay - NW-DEEYNZYZ9 - Daily Qualified but going to be updated
I would be interested in knowing more about these other items and whether they are Account-Wide for ALL characters or only usable with Dragonborn characters.
Are ALL the items redeemable by all 14 of my characters?
How many of the items are tradable?
What are the actual stats of the Artefacts?
No offence, but you mean you're a mug with more money than sense? Did you not say you are 52? So am I. You should know better.
It's not a question of whether we can afford to pay it; it is a question of whether it is worth the price they are asking. It's a fairly transparent and juvenile marketing strategy to make something massively overpriced, exclusive and rare, and bank on there being enough mugs who will pay for it as "there is one dragonborn every minute".
But I'd have thought such a ploy would be more likely to work on 12 to 15 year olds rather than middle-aged grandfathers?
I do agree, though, that I do not need ANOTHER account-wide Epic mount. A companion with a really good active bonus might be worth-while, and an Artefact piques my interest.
~
The stats are correct but the cooldown is 120 secs as per other Legendary artifacts. Note that ALL legendary artifacts are getting a boost of 50 to each stat come M4.
The Silver Sword - NW-DEIPWYISA - Daily Qualified
A Relaxing Stay - NW-DEEYNZYZ9 - Daily Qualified but going to be updated
Thanks for that - those are good stats.
But is this Artefact redeemable by ALL characters?
And what rank is it when you first get it?
~
Yes, redeemable on all characters. It's Rank 1.
The Silver Sword - NW-DEIPWYISA - Daily Qualified
A Relaxing Stay - NW-DEEYNZYZ9 - Daily Qualified but going to be updated
Ditto. If you expect me to "back-up" my *opinion* then I expect you to "back-up" yours. Seriously, you need to read what you write. Hence we are at an impasse, you have my permission to take the last word on how your opinion is fact and mine is not.
I find it genuinely humorous how so many of these comments "complain" that the Studio will "make more money" if they lower the price. Bunk, I say. None of you care how much money they make. You, like me, are simply selfish: you want the pack, but you want to spend less to get it. That;s all these particular comments are really saying.
As for the observation that 'most' of the comments in this thread are complaints about the price, sure they are. Because the disgruntled always are louder and more vocal that the rest. It's why most threads in these forums are like that: negative in general. The fact is Cryptic will make a lot of money with this pack at the current price point. They may have future sales on it, but they'll never permanently lower the price on it, so if all the comments about how they'll "make more money by lowering the price" are hopeful attempts to influence the powers-that-be to lower the price, save your breath. It's not going to happen.
~shrugs~
I disagree with this comment purely because 12 - 15 year olds are unlikely to have the money in the first place, unless of course they can successfully 'con' their parents into buying.
You are only partially correct.
It is truer to say that we want the dragonborn. We want to pay less than cost of the pack because we do not feel that what is in the pack is worth the price. And because of this we will not purchase the pack.
Actually, that's wrong for almost all F2P games.
F2P games thrive on so called whales. These are almost exclusively adults with more money to spend than sense on how to spend it, and nothing to do except play video games (reasons vary - bored housewives, MMO addicts, retired people, etc). It's in a F2P publisher's best interest to entrap as many of these whales as possible, because they will often end up spending thousands of dollars on ingame items. The rest of the players are only small fish. Probably good for a few bucks here and there, but either lacking disposible income (like younger players) or simply more discerning about what they spend their money on. Most F2P games needs lots of small fish to stay alive, but the big bucks come from the whales so it makes a lot of sense to sell certain advantages at greatly inflated prices. The fish won't buy it since they usually only buy the smaller items anyway, but the whales don't care about the price as long as they get what they want. They would buy it even at twice the normal price - which is exactly what is happening here. The majority of the small fish won't buy the pack even at $50 since they're not willing to spend that much on a F2P game to begin with, but a whale will be happy to spend $100 on that same pack.
Now, I'm a small fish myself. Over the year (more or less) that I've played this game I've made the occasional purchase. A character slot here, a mount there, a couple of companions, etc. And I think that's entirely reasonable, especially considering the amount of time I've spent on the game. But I am not willing to pay $100 (or even $50) for a pack that is filled with mostly stuff I don't need or want. I'd pay like $20 for just the Dragonborn race without complaining, but I'm not interested in all the overpriced filler in the big pack. That's why I think it's a good idea to add a Zen store version of just the Dragonborn race. Of course this is mainly self-interest because it'd mean I'd get what I want, but I'm not the only one who feels this way. With a separate Dragonborn race option, the small fish still get to experience the new race without dropping more money of a F2P game than they're comfortable with, while the whales get a lot of extras including a bunch of vanity items which most whales enjoy more than little fish anyway.
And all that is completely ignoring the relative value of the pack in question. As many people have pointed out before, this new pack offers far less value for your money than the items in it would suggest, and is significantly more expensive than comparable packs. To me, that just seems like an easy way to squeeze the whales (who -as said before- don't care about paying twice an item's value as long as they get the item in the end) for more money. Some people are perfectly ok with that, while others have the common sense to at least notice the discrepancy.
That said, I'm not here to dictate how PW should run its games. I'm sure they know what they're doing a lot better than I do. I just think they could do so without causing this kind of controversy in their playerbase.
What I saw before said that the artifact was one-time-only. Did they change that? Or were people wrong before?
For me this is an important distinction, because the main problem I have with this package is that so much of it was claimable once only.
From the pack page on the Arc website:
"Each character on your account can acquire a Heart of the Red Dragon from the Dragonborn Legend Pack."
The Silver Sword - NW-DEIPWYISA - Daily Qualified
A Relaxing Stay - NW-DEEYNZYZ9 - Daily Qualified but going to be updated
Some people would complain if they were hung with a new rope. The thing is; similar packs offer similar items for around $40-$60, the $100 and $200 packs offer mounts and companions along with the other items. All people are saying is if they are to pay this much for a race at least have a mount and companion or lower the price to that of the ones similar to it.
You can get a lot more info here:
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/game-pack/detail/495-dragonborn-legend-pack
Most of the items are single-claim. It's unlikely that the two permanent enchants or the bag will bind (except to account), so they can be shuffled around at-will.
Somebody already mentioned that the enchants are actually all things you can make via the ToD campaign, though I've not personally verified this.
Ring, fashions, and artifact are account unlocks. They didn't bother to tell us about the Bahamut items, which is an appalling lack of information for such an expensive purchase.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Exactly. The only thing I truly want from the pack is availability of the new race, which I would happily pay $10-$15 for. The bag would be nice as well, which would naturally boost the price a bit, say to $30 or so. Couldn't care less about the rest of the stuff.
It's not that I want items on the cheap, it's that I refuse to pay a ludicrous price for things I don't want simply because there's no other way to obtain that which is actually desired. Which is exactly what nearly (if not) all of the complaint posts say. It helps to read the words on the screen without the filter of one's own preconceptions.
"Do what thou Whilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the Law, Love under Will."--Aleister Crowley
I'll concur with your assessment. This is a fair statement.
This is spot-on, though it does omit some of the reasons a "whale" might have so much discretionary cash and it's rather disingenuous to suggest we "have more money than sense". I can assure you I weigh my purchases carefully - in this case (the buying decision process) is a matter of perceived value. If I perceive the value as being worth the asking price then I will consider how much my want warrants the purchase.
I'm also of the mindset that I'd rather pay you to wash my car, mow my lawn, clean my gutters when I could easily to that stuff myself. Does this mean I have more money than sense? If you think so then I suppose it's so.
However, in general this description is exactly spot-on.
As for myself: $75 okay. But the full $99 and I'd pass on it. It also just happens that the timing was right for me as I set a specific monthly budget for myself - (which all used to go to Star Trek Online, but now Neverwinter).
Oh, and as for a Zen Market version of the Dragonborn Race only... I am of the belief Cryptic Studios, as a going concern for-profit business would be outright unwise (read: downright stupid) to not offer such, which is why I suspect they will. But it also makes good business sense to not release such a thing so soon to maximize sales of the full package as there will be a lot of fence-sitters who will buy the pack while it's on sale, but NOT buy the pack at all if they know there will be a race-only option coming later.
But even if they sell it for 2000 Zen, there will be complaints it's "too expensive for the lack of value".
~shrugs~
And it's even worse in Europe with the higher prices there.
I'm in a similar category as some of the earlier posters - 51 years old, and with a substantial amount of spare cash... not sure if I'd call myself a "whale", but I have spent somewhere around $1000 on the game - way more than most players, I guess, but it's actually less than $1 per hour of playing - which actually makes this quite cheap, compared to some of my other hobbies.
I like getting value for my money, and the fact is that this particular package just does not qualify for me. at 50 Euro, I might consider it, at 35 Euro I would buy it immediately - but there is just too little in the package that interest me to justify the current price. Artifacts? Sorry, got too many of those already. One 30 slot bag? Sorry, got more than enough bag space already. Fashion items? Sorry, does not fit with the RP image of my characters. Gemfinder enchant? Sorry, quite happy with my Greater Fey Blessing enchants. Extra character slot? Sorry, already have two or three unused ones. Race change token? Uh, no, thank you - I created my chars the way I visualize them for RP purposes - not for minmaxing.
The draconic enchants and the glyphs are just nice, nothing more...So, what does this leave ... the race itself, the Bahamut Regalia and the Ring of Dragonslaying. Sure, those are things I would be willing to pay for - but not what is being asked.
Sorry, PWE - I have given you quite a bit of money, but if you want more from me, you have to give me value in return.
I and others already have; it is not hard to show that the contents of the pack are not worth the cost. N.b. that (at least in my case) such calculations were made using the assumption that current Zen store prices are fair. Some might call that a shaky premise but it's in favor of the company so I went with it.
Again, many respondents had already pointed out that they (and I) don't want the pack. We want the Dragonborn. (I do want a race change token for one character. I'll be buying it with Z raised through the ZAX, burdensome as that may be.) This is the point. They took a bunch of stuff they couldn't have given away and bundled it with a highly-anticipated and desired item to inflate said item's price. Do you honestly think such behavior should be rewarded?
That remains to be seen. If we're lucky it will tank. If it does sell you can expect more of the same treatment in the future.
I agree with you. However I do have one pet peeve - and yes, I know it's personal problem for me but I simply have to voice it:
European people do NOT pay "higher prices". You pay the exact same price everyone else pays based on the current exchange rate for your currency against the United States Dollar.
In other words: your are not "paying higher prices", rather "it is costing you more". There IS a difference; you can thank your elected governments for the ridiculous tax laws they have imposed on you. It costs you more to buy stuff because of these extra taxes and I think it's also pretty bogus that you must always pay the tax, then plead your case for a refund when they shouldn't apply. I do know what you are saying, but get it right: You are paying *extra* taxes, hence your not paying "higher prices" - you are paying "higher cost".
Saying "higher prices" makes it sound like Cryptic (or any reseller) is intentionally raising your price just because you're in Eurozone.
//rant off
(sorry for the off-topic comment, but my teeth are getting worn down from grinding every time I see this phrase). LOL
ON TOPIC:
Wow. So your *opinion" is fact and everyone else who carries a different opinion is flat-wrong (such as my feeling for myself they are worth the cost)? Okay. You show your colors. You have my permission to take the last word on my argument against your perceived sense of reality.
PRO-TIP: When making such broad statements such as "it is not hard to show that the contents of the pack are not worth the cost." - it's carries a lot more credibility and weight if you add "from my view" or "in my opinion" or "the way I see it".
In my opinion Cryptic itself feels that the pack is overpriced. They show that by putting it on sale even before it is available (i.e not available until mod 4 is released).
In a previous post you said that you got the pack because it was on sale and that you would think twice before getting the pack at full price.
Correct. I'll do the $75, but not the $100. Which also is the very reason WHY it is on sale: to entice people with the same mindset to make the purchase, not because "even they think the price is too high". Anyone who actually understands business and marketing strategy understands this. it was the exact same strategy in January and February 2013: Hero and Guardian packs: not on sale, but rather offered two special things: guaranteed Closed-Beta access and (the no longer available) "Founder" in-game title.
I still use that title on every one of my characters to this day - even my temporary play-testing characters. TO ME that was part of the value of the Hero of the North package (I couldn't care any less about the Drow race myself, but I did want the Spider Mount).
Hence, and what I've been generally trying to express throughout this entire thread: Value and worth are different things to different people. Thus, if something is not valuable or have worth to you, does not mean everyone else feels the same way and neither of you are wrong about it. However, many of the commenters in this thread apparently believe their sense of value and worth is far superior than those who feel differently (at least this is how they're expressing these feelings).
After all, I have been described as having "more money than sense" because I actually find value and worth in this package - for myself (and have never debunked anyone else not finding the same worth or value). Okay, so be it. (Note: I've only debunked the argument that someone else's opinion is fact and my opinion is not).
I am amazed at how so many people actually describe (and perhaps genuinely feel) that the company is their enemy, or intentionally trying to screw them over, because they're "so greedy with all their cash-grabs". It's business. Cash-grabs are the end-game of all commercial businesses, this is no secret. Greed is not a bad word: you, dear players, are "greedy" for demanding the company lower the price of this pack because you're "too-cheap" to spend the money (perceived value and worth aside).
So however you describe the company what goes around comes around. It's a simple teet-for-tat scenario.
Fact: we all are "greedy", no one wants to spend more money than they have to, but most importantly: all this stuff is just PIXEL-CANDY and nothing more. hahahahah!
I think I've made my points pretty clearly and this argument is all academic at this point really. So hence forth I'll continue lurking and reading, but I'll let this comment be my own last word on it:
Whether you buy the pack because you find value in it, or you refuse to buy the back because, for you, there is not enough (or no) value in it: you're all in the right, no one is in the wrong here. Not even Cryptic.