Its very disappointing as a new player of the game to have the toon I have put so much time into building (haven't even hit 60 yet) nerfed into uselessness. Yes, I do mean USELESS. There is no incentive for me to finish leveling this character. It has no future in PVP, will not be able to hold its own in a group, nor will it be viable as a solo PVE character once the planned changes go live. I urge the Devs to please play a CW themselves and not just rely on posts from the forums. You cannot accurately balance a character if you do not play it.
I am not the most skilled player out there but I love to play. But there is nothing worse than playing a toon that has had its damage gutted by nerfs. Especially if those nerfs are made in part to appease another class because they don't want competition. The planned nerfs will drive me right out of the game.
I don't know how many CWs will suffer yet another module of being rag dolls in PvP. Even PvE won't make up for it this time. Picture level of frustration.
Just put it in perspective. You appear to be more willing to listen to the GWFs spoiled by over a year of OP in PvP, bugged skills (bugged to their advantage) and now prone+kessel artifact bug to one shot some classes. Those GWFs probably forgot (the new ones never knew) how it feels to struggle for life in PvP and still be of some utility. You are very responsive to gamers, who once they see they can't kill a class with 2 encounters start crying for this class nerf. You don't promote skilful play this way.
Shield buff (not this nerfed useless one, which no CW will now exchange for damaging encounter) would only make CW more hard to kill but not immortal (as some GWFs now are, and HRs will be with module 4). Strong Shield also would not mean that every CW will use it. Some still would prefer more DPS.
Why nerfing CWs single target skills by the way? They are not even used in PvE. They are mostly PvP support for already weakest class. Are you planning to make CWs PvP time even more horrible then it was module2 and module3? I guess it's possible!
And last but not least: you would do well to promote skilful play. And it just so happens that Shard requires Skill with capital S. And even much so on Tab. Skill and willingness to use it (despite long casting time and numerous bugs) should be rewarded with satisfactory damage. This would be only fair. I agree it was OP but only in PvE. Shouldn't be this weak in PvP.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
Now some GWF have started whining they want Takedown to be given back it's prone , who's willing to bet gentlemancrush caves in and pampers to them?
Wow lol , maybe he hasn't given Takedown a prone but he did increase Takedowns stun by a second , how nice it must be....
How about some 'QoL' improvements for CW? because as of now GWF has a better ability to control than Control wizard does...
Hey all, we are making 2 changes for PVP QoL improvements.
Great Weapon Fighter: Takedown: Base stun increased to 3 seconds (up from 2 seconds).
Great Weapon Fighter: Frontline Surge: Base stun increased to 3 seconds (up from 2 seconds).
be more tanky than a tank in pvp and not even have to cast damage encounters and you can focus on controlling and not being hit - each time you are hit briartwine has a chance to proc assailing.
These changes basically means any PVP CW will have to roll for Assailing force. period.
The shield nerf was more than needed since CWs with shield will have a TON of tankiness still.
CWs are the only class ATM that can 1v1 HRs with ease. CWs will be mandatory for every premade. Period.
IMO, these changes will make CW very very strong, but pigeon hole CWs for PVP purposes.
FYI - with a broken shield (tab or non-tab since I think they do the same 25%) + 20% Tenacity you will have an unmitigated 40% DR. Thats more than I can say for almost any class.... Even the Sent GWF with 55%+ DR can get mitigated down into the 20s meaning that your CW will take as much dmg as a Sentinel GWF outside Unstoppable....
Its very disappointing as a new player of the game to have the toon I have put so much time into building (haven't even hit 60 yet) nerfed into uselessness. Yes, I do mean USELESS. There is no incentive for me to finish leveling this character. It has no future in PVP, will not be able to hold its own in a group, nor will it be viable as a solo PVE character once the planned changes go live. I urge the Devs to please play a CW themselves and not just rely on posts from the forums. You cannot accurately balance a character if you do not play it.
I am not the most skilled player out there but I love to play. But there is nothing worse than playing a toon that has had its damage gutted by nerfs. Especially if those nerfs are made in part to appease another class because they don't want competition. The planned nerfs will drive me right out of the game.
Wasn't as if an early CW could compete with a HR in terms of damage in the first place....
be more tanky than a tank in pvp and not even have to cast damage encounters and you can focus on controlling and not being hit - each time you are hit briartwine has a chance to proc assailing.
These changes basically means any PVP CW will have to roll for Assailing force. period.
The shield nerf was more than needed since CWs with shield will have a TON of tankiness still.
CWs are the only class ATM that can 1v1 HRs with ease. CWs will be mandatory for every premade. Period.
IMO, these changes will make CW very very strong, but pigeon hole CWs for PVP purposes.
FYI - with a broken shield (tab or non-tab since I think they do the same 25%) + 20% Tenacity you will have an unmitigated 40% DR. Thats more than I can say for almost any class.... Even the Sent GWF with 55%+ DR can get mitigated down into the 20s meaning that your CW will take as much dmg as a Sentinel GWF outside Unstoppable....
In another post i read , you said that you never played a cw. Then how in heavens name can you have an opinion about them that is objective and true? Well i say take Gwfs and Hr and give them zero control.Leave control to CONTROL Wizards.Just to balance things out. That means no Prones,no Stuns, no Nothing for them.
I hope you realize 20% tenacity isn't +20% dr, as stated by gmc earlier on this thread lol. From what he said and how I understood it, tenacity is similar to some of the gwf feats that increase one skill by a percentage of another, meaning whatever your dr is, it will be 20% higher with tenacity. Not 20% +20%,
And with shield CWs were able to have a fair fight versus other classes, now it's a losing fight just like it always has been, I have lost most of my fights on the preview now after they changed shield, and before they changed shield it was a pretty even fight for the most part. Just because CWs won't be the most picked on class in PvP now doesn't mean you need to batter any kind of buffs they are getting.
-Chill Strike: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Damage reduced by roughly 15%
-Conduit of Ice: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Damage reduced by roughly 17%.
-Magic Missile: Casting times have been reverted to their live state. Damage has been reduced by roughly 32%.
-Master of Flame: Fanning the Flame: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Base damage reduced by roughly 33%.
-Oppressive Force: This power has had its overall damage reduced by roughly 9%.
-Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its base impact damage reduced by roughly 33%.
-Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its explosion damage reduced by roughly 60%.
-Wizard's Wrath: This feat now grants 1/2/3% area of effect damage (down from 2/4/6%).
-Arcane Enhancement: This feat now grants 1/2/3% more Arcane damage (down from 2/4/6%).
-Blighting Power: This feat now grants 2/4/6% more cold damage (down from 3/6/9%).
Thats not even MENTIONING the nurfs done to the paragon feat trees...
And you still want to find ways to nurf the CW? Stop f**king kicking us when we are down, your two classes have only been getting better since the initial updates on preview and CW has only gotten worse
be more tanky than a tank in pvp and not even have to cast damage encounters and you can focus on controlling and not being hit - each time you are hit briartwine has a chance to proc assailing.
These changes basically means any PVP CW will have to roll for Assailing force. period.
The shield nerf was more than needed since CWs with shield will have a TON of tankiness still.
CWs are the only class ATM that can 1v1 HRs with ease. CWs will be mandatory for every premade. Period.
IMO, these changes will make CW very very strong, but pigeon hole CWs for PVP purposes.
FYI - with a broken shield (tab or non-tab since I think they do the same 25%) + 20% Tenacity you will have an unmitigated 40% DR. Thats more than I can say for almost any class.... Even the Sent GWF with 55%+ DR can get mitigated down into the 20s meaning that your CW will take as much dmg as a Sentinel GWF outside Unstoppable....
CWs are the only class ATM that can 1v1 HRs with ease. CWs will be mandatory for every premade. Period.
ive fought k4to and critical 2 of the best hrs in game, and on the PTR when shield was just buffed, and they <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> me within 10 seconds each. no class has a chance in the slightest against CW. you are just crying the fk out on the cw class forums because after they gimped your broken class after a 6 months at being top in pvp, you are trying to make CWs be so bad and squishy as fk and so low damage that a gwf at this current state could kill them. GWF has always been a zero skill class to play and thats why someone like you plays it and feels like its necessary to insert themselves into another classes thread to make sure you are still on top. so please.
get out of the cw forums. you opinions and your fake attempts at making cw seem op is not wanted here.
be more tanky than a tank in pvp and not even have to cast damage encounters and you can focus on controlling and not being hit - each time you are hit briartwine has a chance to proc assailing.
These changes basically means any PVP CW will have to roll for Assailing force. period.
The shield nerf was more than needed since CWs with shield will have a TON of tankiness still.
CWs are the only class ATM that can 1v1 HRs with ease. CWs will be mandatory for every premade. Period.
IMO, these changes will make CW very very strong, but pigeon hole CWs for PVP purposes.
FYI - with a broken shield (tab or non-tab since I think they do the same 25%) + 20% Tenacity you will have an unmitigated 40% DR. Thats more than I can say for almost any class.... Even the Sent GWF with 55%+ DR can get mitigated down into the 20s meaning that your CW will take as much dmg as a Sentinel GWF outside Unstoppable....
You do understand that CW is the only DPS class that cannot effectively stack Deflection to high values, right? I hope you know too that we don't have anything to counter control.
While most classes INCLUDING GWF get 50%+ of damage reduction with Deflection almost all the time and can avoid control whenever they want, our Shield was brutally nerfed and the control immune armory was increased.
be more tanky than a tank in pvp and not even have to cast damage encounters and you can focus on controlling and not being hit - each time you are hit briartwine has a chance to proc assailing.
These changes basically means any PVP CW will have to roll for Assailing force. period.
The shield nerf was more than needed since CWs with shield will have a TON of tankiness still.
CWs are the only class ATM that can 1v1 HRs with ease. CWs will be mandatory for every premade. Period.
IMO, these changes will make CW very very strong, but pigeon hole CWs for PVP purposes.
FYI - with a broken shield (tab or non-tab since I think they do the same 25%) + 20% Tenacity you will have an unmitigated 40% DR. Thats more than I can say for almost any class.... Even the Sent GWF with 55%+ DR can get mitigated down into the 20s meaning that your CW will take as much dmg as a Sentinel GWF outside Unstoppable....
Seriously this guy has NO CLUE...
How is it that Devs listen to his opinion?
We are getting nerfed because a GWF thinks a CW wants to hold a Node by being Tankish? What I want is a respectable Daily that does 20k Damage like other classes so we can gain some respect.
I want a repel that will actually repel someone.
I want my Single Target Damage to be an actual threat to some rather than some random ability that may or not proc.
I want to be able to cast without getting interrupted or dodged because casting and animation take so long.
CW get little to NO Respect in PVP and it's not going to change with this nerf. We will be the free kill that everyone goes after first.
I hope you realize 20% tenacity isn't +20% dr, as stated by gmc earlier on this thread lol. From what he said and how I understood it, tenacity is similar to some of the gwf feats that increase one skill by a percentage of another, meaning whatever your dr is, it will be 20% higher with tenacity. Not 20% +20%,
And with shield CWs were able to have a fair fight versus other classes, now it's a losing fight just like it always has been, I have lost most of my fights on the preview now after they changed shield, and before they changed shield it was a pretty even fight for the most part. Just because CWs won't be the most picked on class in PvP now doesn't mean you need to batter any kind of buffs they are getting.
The only thing I ever said needed changing is Assailing force was TOO op and Shield was too OP, I agree some damage needs to be brought back but CWs are still very strong.
You also should see Crush correcting himself saying he did it wrong.
I went and looked up the formula again and I made an error when reading the parenthesis for the first post I made on the math.
It is indeed Damage * (1-Dres) * (1-Tenacity) * (1-Shield).
While the net effect is similar, it means that being reduced to zero Dres does NOT negate your tenacity.
Additionally this is one of the original reasons that Arpen Resistance was removed.
Apologies, I misread the formula when doing the research for the first post.
The formula is:
Final Damage = Damage * (1-DR) * (1-Tenacity) * (1-Shield)
So a CW with ZERO DR 20% tenacity and 25% shield now:
1000 * (1-0)*(1-20%)*(1-25%) = 600 final damage.
A GF with 50% DR being attacked by a guy with 25% ARP and 20% tenacity:
1000 * (1-.25)*(1-.20) = 600 final damage.
TLDR: A CW with shield and zero DR = a GF with 50% DR.
The old method, CWs were getting a 60% DR base that could not be mitigated at all. Do you know how much DR a GF would need to equal that being attacked with 25% ARP (easy)? 75% DR... Tell me thats not broken...
You want a CW to have the equiv in PVP of 75% DR? Shield needed a tone down. BTW its not HALF as effective its only dropping your BASE DR from 60% to 40% (with 20% tenacity) and it CANT be mitigated.
I have yet so see some record on GWFs thread that shows how impossible CWs are for GWFs. So far I've seen only HR, TR and GF. Where's CW one?
Or better yet, Go, roll a CW, and see how "OP" this class is. See for yourself how "easy" it is to stay alive while dealing <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage and having <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> defence.
Crush, reverse shield nerf. You are making CWs hopeless again just to satisfy GWFs you guys have been spoiling for over a year now. Let them grow some skill!
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
I have yet so see some record on GWFs thread that shows how impossible CWs are for GWFs. So far I've seen only HR, TR and GF. Where's CW one?
Or better yet, Go, roll a CW, and see how "OP" this class is. See for yourself how "easy" it is to stay alive while dealing <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage and having <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> defence.
Crush, reverse shield nerf. You are making CWs hopeless again just to satisfy GWFs you guys have been spoiling for over a year now. Let them grow some skill!
You clearly have not been in the GWF thread at all then
The only thing I ever said needed changing is Assailing force was TOO op and Shield was too OP, I agree some damage needs to be brought back but CWs are still very strong.
You also should see Crush correcting himself saying he did it wrong.
The formula is:
Final Damage = Damage * (1-DR) * (1-Tenacity) * (1-Shield)
So a CW with ZERO DR 20% tenacity and 25% shield now:
1000 * (1-0)*(1-20%)*(1-25%) = 600 final damage.
A GF with 50% DR being attacked by a guy with 25% ARP and 20% tenacity:
1000 * (1-.25)*(1-.20) = 600 final damage.
TLDR: A CW with shield and zero DR = a GF with 50% DR.
The old method, CWs were getting a 60% DR base that could not be mitigated at all. Do you know how much DR a GF would need to equal that being attacked with 25% ARP (easy)? 75% DR... Tell me thats not broken...
You want a CW to have the equiv in PVP of 75% DR? Shield needed a tone down. BTW its not HALF as effective its only dropping your BASE DR from 60% to 40% (with 20% tenacity) and it CANT be mitigated.
The fact is though pure math doesn't always equate to what actually happens. On the preview right now with the 50% base shield resistance, I cannot 1v1 a gf/hr of the same caliber. You have to take in effect the players gear / skill aswell as the math. If a gwf with 18k pure pvp build fights a cw with 18k pure pvp build right now on preview, the fight will be fairly even. We can test this right now if you want, but your relying on pure numbers and not actual ingame tests. the only way to accuratly test the changes is to play on a cw yourself, and not make 3rd person observations. On preview right now CWs do have a fairly good upperhand but ONLY to people not as prepared as the cw. Thats how it always should be, if you are better at your class, and are better geared, then you should have the advantage. With CWs all the endgame pvp cws are at their best, and cw is a naturally harder class to play then gwf, so meaning most endgame cws are better then most endgame gwfs, in terms of skill at the game.
That being said, unless you have a cw (which you have previously stated you don't) then you shouldn't post feedback about CWs until you have gotten a hands on feel for the changes, changes which right now all CWs on the preview feel like there getting a punch in the face from all the nurfs, and you're 3rd person feedback of every little thing that we still have / have gotten back is really depressing. Assailiant procs on ALL outgoing damage, correctly stated by the devs, no matter what kind of damage it is, and even with assailiant procs, it has a cooldown, aswell as a big damage nurf, which is equal to barely 2 sure strikes from a gwf, because gwf at wills hit like a tank, while the cw counterpart, magic missile, will crit for a max damage of 500, even with arcane mastery and the most offensive gear I can get. It's just not right that you think CWs are op in any way. They never have been and in this manner they never will be.
Feedback control: Give me 2 skills which stun players for 3 sek. like Great weapon fighter am..... sorry! Great weapon control fighter and Hunter control ranger
"CWs are the only class ATM that can 1v1 HRs with ease. CWs will be mandatory for every premade. Period."
HAHA. Any decent HR can kill a CW in just a few seconds on prev. Stop talking **** here pls.
lol doN,t worry this guy's know what he speak about since he doesn't play CW neither HR class. he only play GF and gwf so he probably heard somewhere that a 8 k hr got destroy by an 18k CW.
I putted some math in page 82 using the formula given by gentleman and take reasonnable PVP build in both side with the DR you can find in both side but also with the enchant and make math without even taking any special play or power like the revete shield from gf.
With or without actual shield, a CW need more than twice time to kill a passive GF than the opposite. and with shield slotted CW canno't even make enough damage to pass regen from a 40 k HP GF with 2K more regen (even with the fact that regen is cut by half it give up to 2K live point every 2 seconds, mean 15k while a full encounter roll of CW do almost 10K at best).
But honestly as far as i can see dev only provide good return to other class, while only taking our bug return.
in live server CW is the worst def by far, the third dps class, the fifth control class but most of the time the first debuf class.
IN previous server we are or the worst def and the 6 dps class (or the 6 def class and worst dps class depending of shield or not), the 5/6 control class competing with warlord and healer, and now the worst debuf class. there is not even now one single aspect that we can try to give in a pvp group
I am going to say it, and I hope my words bring some sense to these developers.
Dear Crush,
Can you please click on these video links and give YOUR feedback. This is what is waiting for us in Mod4 for an "OP GWF" ? The links here should provide you with "sufficient" feedback.
"CLICK" on the links and give us your thoughts. Ask other players to PvP YOU in your GWF and see the difference for yourself!
This is all there is, most up-to-date. Stop misinforming or share link (most-up-to-date).
Crush, un-nerf the Shield please. And don't forget GWFs and other classes shouldn't out-control CWs so nerf to the ground all their CC skills. ALL of them.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
"CWs are the only class ATM that can 1v1 HRs with ease. CWs will be mandatory for every premade. Period."
HAHA. Any decent HR can kill a CW in just a few seconds on prev. Stop talking **** here pls.
- If you are talking about on live, then yeah I agree. If you are talking about PTR. CW's absolutely murder HR's. And yes, even the best HR's can be beat by CW's. If you don't know this, then you should log onto the PTR and learn to play a little bit. I get it, you were like the GF's in mod 3 and didn't make it to many premades so I feel for you. But trust me when I say even after these fixes (it was broken lol) - you guys totallllllllly change the fight.
- I know you want to deal your large DPS from the previous mods. But with the unbelievable amount of control you guys now do, it would take a lot of revert/nerfing on that to bring the DPS back up.
- Having 1v1'd at least 15-20 cw's, some bad, some being some of the best, I have been stun locked while blocking for around 4-10 seconds. So, your single target DPS was taken down, but I am stuck for 3-4x as long as I ever have been so the DPS is still there, not to mention you guys get a free 4-5k damage that procs all the time.
- I am a Guardian. I played with a CW for the better part of 6 months from the first week of the game and Ive seen your nerfs and I get it. You guys were slightly above the GF for mod 3, were squishy, and the good CW's were so few and far between it was almost a joke to see one. But now you guys are as tanky as a GF, you can CC for crazy durations, and totally change a fight when you roll into it? You are a MUST have for pvp. So why are you still complaining? CW's are not meant to have more DR than any other class in the game, you wear cloth..
So log onto the PTR, and instead of it being a 15 second fight where you take no damage and have 2-3 capstones kill an enemy, you actually have to play, but can kill just about anyone. Yes, including HR's.
Breath.... Relax.... It'll be ok. CW's and GF's will be back for Mod 4, trust me!
I've given a lot of feedback in this thread. Sometimes I've called for buffs to certain aspects of how CW's powers work, other times I've called for them to be nerfed. If you look back several pages I was the person who initially called for Assailant to do less damage to other players than it does on non-playable characters before they changed it. Basically, I'm trying to be level-headed and fair when it comes to bringing back CW's in PvE damage while still making it fun and useful and not ruining the class for PvP. Doing this has probably made me pretty unpopular with certain segments of the CW player base on these boards (am I right Renegade's?).
All of that is to say, I'm am in no way a CW cheerleader who wants my classed buffed to the high heavens no matter what that does to other classes and overall game balance.
So you can trust me when I say if you actually believe this:
CWs are the only class ATM that can 1v1 HRs with ease. CWs will be mandatory for every premade. Period.
then you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about in any way, shape, or form. I was in Icewind Pass testing out Shield and Assailant BEFORE they got nerfed in the latest patch and I got DESTROYED by HR's. Their health never even dipped.
Show me a video since the latest patch that included the nerf to Assailant and Shield of a CW fighting 1v1 against an equally-geared and equally-skilled HR and not just winning, but winning "with ease."
I'm not sure if any videos have been really posted in that time, but sure. Add me in game - Dom@Freshour
I can take you to the PTR and talk with some of the good CW's and HR's, let you fight the HR, and then let them fight the HR. I am usually on in the evenings Eastern Time. So feel free to message me if you are truly interested in seeing this.
- I am just so pumped to get CW's back into premades (as well as GF's )
BTW, 1 thing to note as well, you dont HAVe to run Shield in mastery because Crush has stated:
"Shield will go down to retaining 25% of its effectiveness while destabilized. It dose this in 1 step in normal slots and 2 steps in Mastery Slots."
So I actually see no reason to put this in mastery as now the only gain is added DR when not taking dmg (meh) and control resist.
So Slot this NOT in tab, you have your tab open now AND with 20% Tenacity a BASE 40% DR.....
Can you even stop once put false thing here let says until v4 appear, even with gentleman posting you the formula you still put false info there to make your false argument looking true, you always taking one little part and not put how whole thing. i putted 2 page before how it interract with 2 real build of two real player . and reality is CW will need more than twice time to shot the GF than the opposite, reality is that wit hshield tabbed a CW canno't overcome in damage term a 2K regen 40K GF because he will do less damage than the GF will get HP at the end. I'm not even counting the fact that GF can reflect half damage to their owner with shield, not even consider any other life regen that can be get with campain gift not even consider that the 6 second just give for control to GWF is the exact time that any destructor actualy need to kill any CW
Speaking of DPS, War Wizard is more skilled than Control Wizard. Personally, I always think someday War Wizard will be introduced in this game and I can then enjoy playing a true damage dealer.
After Warlock release I don't think we'll see another spell casting class any time soon. Unless you mean battle mage as a 3rd CW paragon... if we agree that controlling might also go through damaging.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
Why do CWs have to waste a full encounter slot just to be as tanky as a gwf? If anything we should have the buffed shields defence to make up for having 1 less encounter slot, which is something you are forgetting lol
To be fair, GWF is also wasting an encounter on being more tanky (unstoppable).
But their "encounter slot" grants control immunity and even more dr then cw shield by a considerable amount
Plus on top of that they have easily as much if not more real control than a CW , it does seem strange that a CW with a magic shield cannot be as tanky as a GWF yet a GWF can control as well if not better than a CW.
Comments
I am not the most skilled player out there but I love to play. But there is nothing worse than playing a toon that has had its damage gutted by nerfs. Especially if those nerfs are made in part to appease another class because they don't want competition. The planned nerfs will drive me right out of the game.
I don't know how many CWs will suffer yet another module of being rag dolls in PvP. Even PvE won't make up for it this time. Picture level of frustration.
Just put it in perspective. You appear to be more willing to listen to the GWFs spoiled by over a year of OP in PvP, bugged skills (bugged to their advantage) and now prone+kessel artifact bug to one shot some classes. Those GWFs probably forgot (the new ones never knew) how it feels to struggle for life in PvP and still be of some utility. You are very responsive to gamers, who once they see they can't kill a class with 2 encounters start crying for this class nerf. You don't promote skilful play this way.
Shield buff (not this nerfed useless one, which no CW will now exchange for damaging encounter) would only make CW more hard to kill but not immortal (as some GWFs now are, and HRs will be with module 4). Strong Shield also would not mean that every CW will use it. Some still would prefer more DPS.
Why nerfing CWs single target skills by the way? They are not even used in PvE. They are mostly PvP support for already weakest class. Are you planning to make CWs PvP time even more horrible then it was module2 and module3? I guess it's possible!
And last but not least: you would do well to promote skilful play. And it just so happens that Shard requires Skill with capital S. And even much so on Tab. Skill and willingness to use it (despite long casting time and numerous bugs) should be rewarded with satisfactory damage. This would be only fair. I agree it was OP but only in PvE. Shouldn't be this weak in PvP.
Wow lol , maybe he hasn't given Takedown a prone but he did increase Takedowns stun by a second , how nice it must be....
How about some 'QoL' improvements for CW? because as of now GWF has a better ability to control than Control wizard does...
be more tanky than a tank in pvp and not even have to cast damage encounters and you can focus on controlling and not being hit - each time you are hit briartwine has a chance to proc assailing.
These changes basically means any PVP CW will have to roll for Assailing force. period.
The shield nerf was more than needed since CWs with shield will have a TON of tankiness still.
CWs are the only class ATM that can 1v1 HRs with ease. CWs will be mandatory for every premade. Period.
IMO, these changes will make CW very very strong, but pigeon hole CWs for PVP purposes.
FYI - with a broken shield (tab or non-tab since I think they do the same 25%) + 20% Tenacity you will have an unmitigated 40% DR. Thats more than I can say for almost any class.... Even the Sent GWF with 55%+ DR can get mitigated down into the 20s meaning that your CW will take as much dmg as a Sentinel GWF outside Unstoppable....
Wasn't as if an early CW could compete with a HR in terms of damage in the first place....
In another post i read , you said that you never played a cw. Then how in heavens name can you have an opinion about them that is objective and true? Well i say take Gwfs and Hr and give them zero control.Leave control to CONTROL Wizards.Just to balance things out. That means no Prones,no Stuns, no Nothing for them.
I hope you realize 20% tenacity isn't +20% dr, as stated by gmc earlier on this thread lol. From what he said and how I understood it, tenacity is similar to some of the gwf feats that increase one skill by a percentage of another, meaning whatever your dr is, it will be 20% higher with tenacity. Not 20% +20%,
And with shield CWs were able to have a fair fight versus other classes, now it's a losing fight just like it always has been, I have lost most of my fights on the preview now after they changed shield, and before they changed shield it was a pretty even fight for the most part. Just because CWs won't be the most picked on class in PvP now doesn't mean you need to batter any kind of buffs they are getting.
-Chill Strike: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Damage reduced by roughly 15%
-Conduit of Ice: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Damage reduced by roughly 17%.
-Magic Missile: Casting times have been reverted to their live state. Damage has been reduced by roughly 32%.
-Master of Flame: Fanning the Flame: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Base damage reduced by roughly 33%.
-Oppressive Force: This power has had its overall damage reduced by roughly 9%.
-Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its base impact damage reduced by roughly 33%.
-Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its explosion damage reduced by roughly 60%.
-Wizard's Wrath: This feat now grants 1/2/3% area of effect damage (down from 2/4/6%).
-Arcane Enhancement: This feat now grants 1/2/3% more Arcane damage (down from 2/4/6%).
-Blighting Power: This feat now grants 2/4/6% more cold damage (down from 3/6/9%).
Thats not even MENTIONING the nurfs done to the paragon feat trees...
And you still want to find ways to nurf the CW? Stop f**king kicking us when we are down, your two classes have only been getting better since the initial updates on preview and CW has only gotten worse
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
get out of the cw forums. you opinions and your fake attempts at making cw seem op is not wanted here.
hahahahahAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
0 damage and 0 control, yea I think that was needed.
You do understand that CW is the only DPS class that cannot effectively stack Deflection to high values, right? I hope you know too that we don't have anything to counter control.
While most classes INCLUDING GWF get 50%+ of damage reduction with Deflection almost all the time and can avoid control whenever they want, our Shield was brutally nerfed and the control immune armory was increased.
Seriously this guy has NO CLUE...
How is it that Devs listen to his opinion?
We are getting nerfed because a GWF thinks a CW wants to hold a Node by being Tankish?
What I want is a respectable Daily that does 20k Damage like other classes so we can gain some respect.
I want a repel that will actually repel someone.
I want my Single Target Damage to be an actual threat to some rather than some random ability that may or not proc.
I want to be able to cast without getting interrupted or dodged because casting and animation take so long.
CW get little to NO Respect in PVP and it's not going to change with this nerf. We will be the free kill that everyone goes after first.
"CWs are the only class ATM that can 1v1 HRs with ease. CWs will be mandatory for every premade. Period."
HAHA. Any decent HR can kill a CW in just a few seconds on prev. Stop talking **** here pls.
The only thing I ever said needed changing is Assailing force was TOO op and Shield was too OP, I agree some damage needs to be brought back but CWs are still very strong.
You also should see Crush correcting himself saying he did it wrong.
The formula is:
Final Damage = Damage * (1-DR) * (1-Tenacity) * (1-Shield)
So a CW with ZERO DR 20% tenacity and 25% shield now:
1000 * (1-0)*(1-20%)*(1-25%) = 600 final damage.
A GF with 50% DR being attacked by a guy with 25% ARP and 20% tenacity:
1000 * (1-.25)*(1-.20) = 600 final damage.
TLDR: A CW with shield and zero DR = a GF with 50% DR.
The old method, CWs were getting a 60% DR base that could not be mitigated at all. Do you know how much DR a GF would need to equal that being attacked with 25% ARP (easy)? 75% DR... Tell me thats not broken...
You want a CW to have the equiv in PVP of 75% DR? Shield needed a tone down. BTW its not HALF as effective its only dropping your BASE DR from 60% to 40% (with 20% tenacity) and it CANT be mitigated.
Or better yet, Go, roll a CW, and see how "OP" this class is. See for yourself how "easy" it is to stay alive while dealing <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage and having <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> defence.
Crush, reverse shield nerf. You are making CWs hopeless again just to satisfy GWFs you guys have been spoiling for over a year now. Let them grow some skill!
You clearly have not been in the GWF thread at all then
The fact is though pure math doesn't always equate to what actually happens. On the preview right now with the 50% base shield resistance, I cannot 1v1 a gf/hr of the same caliber. You have to take in effect the players gear / skill aswell as the math. If a gwf with 18k pure pvp build fights a cw with 18k pure pvp build right now on preview, the fight will be fairly even. We can test this right now if you want, but your relying on pure numbers and not actual ingame tests. the only way to accuratly test the changes is to play on a cw yourself, and not make 3rd person observations. On preview right now CWs do have a fairly good upperhand but ONLY to people not as prepared as the cw. Thats how it always should be, if you are better at your class, and are better geared, then you should have the advantage. With CWs all the endgame pvp cws are at their best, and cw is a naturally harder class to play then gwf, so meaning most endgame cws are better then most endgame gwfs, in terms of skill at the game.
That being said, unless you have a cw (which you have previously stated you don't) then you shouldn't post feedback about CWs until you have gotten a hands on feel for the changes, changes which right now all CWs on the preview feel like there getting a punch in the face from all the nurfs, and you're 3rd person feedback of every little thing that we still have / have gotten back is really depressing. Assailiant procs on ALL outgoing damage, correctly stated by the devs, no matter what kind of damage it is, and even with assailiant procs, it has a cooldown, aswell as a big damage nurf, which is equal to barely 2 sure strikes from a gwf, because gwf at wills hit like a tank, while the cw counterpart, magic missile, will crit for a max damage of 500, even with arcane mastery and the most offensive gear I can get. It's just not right that you think CWs are op in any way. They never have been and in this manner they never will be.
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
"Shield will go down to retaining 25% of its effectiveness while destabilized. It dose this in 1 step in normal slots and 2 steps in Mastery Slots."
So I actually see no reason to put this in mastery as now the only gain is added DR when not taking dmg (meh) and control resist.
So Slot this NOT in tab, you have your tab open now AND with 20% Tenacity a BASE 40% DR.....
We need it in mastery now because gwf got their control back from crying enough on their thread.
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
lol doN,t worry this guy's know what he speak about since he doesn't play CW neither HR class. he only play GF and gwf so he probably heard somewhere that a 8 k hr got destroy by an 18k CW.
I putted some math in page 82 using the formula given by gentleman and take reasonnable PVP build in both side with the DR you can find in both side but also with the enchant and make math without even taking any special play or power like the revete shield from gf.
With or without actual shield, a CW need more than twice time to kill a passive GF than the opposite. and with shield slotted CW canno't even make enough damage to pass regen from a 40 k HP GF with 2K more regen (even with the fact that regen is cut by half it give up to 2K live point every 2 seconds, mean 15k while a full encounter roll of CW do almost 10K at best).
But honestly as far as i can see dev only provide good return to other class, while only taking our bug return.
in live server CW is the worst def by far, the third dps class, the fifth control class but most of the time the first debuf class.
IN previous server we are or the worst def and the 6 dps class (or the 6 def class and worst dps class depending of shield or not), the 5/6 control class competing with warlord and healer, and now the worst debuf class. there is not even now one single aspect that we can try to give in a pvp group
This is all there is, most up-to-date. Stop misinforming or share link (most-up-to-date).
Crush, un-nerf the Shield please. And don't forget GWFs and other classes shouldn't out-control CWs so nerf to the ground all their CC skills. ALL of them.
- If you are talking about on live, then yeah I agree. If you are talking about PTR. CW's absolutely murder HR's. And yes, even the best HR's can be beat by CW's. If you don't know this, then you should log onto the PTR and learn to play a little bit. I get it, you were like the GF's in mod 3 and didn't make it to many premades so I feel for you. But trust me when I say even after these fixes (it was broken lol) - you guys totallllllllly change the fight.
- I know you want to deal your large DPS from the previous mods. But with the unbelievable amount of control you guys now do, it would take a lot of revert/nerfing on that to bring the DPS back up.
- Having 1v1'd at least 15-20 cw's, some bad, some being some of the best, I have been stun locked while blocking for around 4-10 seconds. So, your single target DPS was taken down, but I am stuck for 3-4x as long as I ever have been so the DPS is still there, not to mention you guys get a free 4-5k damage that procs all the time.
- I am a Guardian. I played with a CW for the better part of 6 months from the first week of the game and Ive seen your nerfs and I get it. You guys were slightly above the GF for mod 3, were squishy, and the good CW's were so few and far between it was almost a joke to see one. But now you guys are as tanky as a GF, you can CC for crazy durations, and totally change a fight when you roll into it? You are a MUST have for pvp. So why are you still complaining? CW's are not meant to have more DR than any other class in the game, you wear cloth..
So log onto the PTR, and instead of it being a 15 second fight where you take no damage and have 2-3 capstones kill an enemy, you actually have to play, but can kill just about anyone. Yes, including HR's.
Breath.... Relax.... It'll be ok. CW's and GF's will be back for Mod 4, trust me!
All of that is to say, I'm am in no way a CW cheerleader who wants my classed buffed to the high heavens no matter what that does to other classes and overall game balance.
So you can trust me when I say if you actually believe this:
then you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about in any way, shape, or form. I was in Icewind Pass testing out Shield and Assailant BEFORE they got nerfed in the latest patch and I got DESTROYED by HR's. Their health never even dipped.
Show me a video since the latest patch that included the nerf to Assailant and Shield of a CW fighting 1v1 against an equally-geared and equally-skilled HR and not just winning, but winning "with ease."
I'll wait.
I can take you to the PTR and talk with some of the good CW's and HR's, let you fight the HR, and then let them fight the HR. I am usually on in the evenings Eastern Time. So feel free to message me if you are truly interested in seeing this.
- I am just so pumped to get CW's back into premades (as well as GF's
Can you even stop once put false thing here let says until v4 appear, even with gentleman posting you the formula you still put false info there to make your false argument looking true, you always taking one little part and not put how whole thing. i putted 2 page before how it interract with 2 real build of two real player . and reality is CW will need more than twice time to shot the GF than the opposite, reality is that wit hshield tabbed a CW canno't overcome in damage term a 2K regen 40K GF because he will do less damage than the GF will get HP at the end. I'm not even counting the fact that GF can reflect half damage to their owner with shield, not even consider any other life regen that can be get with campain gift not even consider that the 6 second just give for control to GWF is the exact time that any destructor actualy need to kill any CW
After Warlock release I don't think we'll see another spell casting class any time soon. Unless you mean battle mage as a 3rd CW paragon... if we agree that controlling might also go through damaging.
To be fair, GWF is also wasting an encounter on being more tanky (unstoppable).
But their "encounter slot" grants control immunity and even more dr then cw shield by a considerable amount
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
Plus on top of that they have easily as much if not more real control than a CW , it does seem strange that a CW with a magic shield cannot be as tanky as a GWF yet a GWF can control as well if not better than a CW.