Feedback control: Give me 2 skills which stun players for 3 sek. like Great weapon fighter am..... sorry! Great weapon control fighter and Hunter control ranger
"CWs are the only class ATM that can 1v1 HRs with ease. CWs will be mandatory for every premade. Period."
HAHA. Any decent HR can kill a CW in just a few seconds on prev. Stop talking **** here pls.
lol doN,t worry this guy's know what he speak about since he doesn't play CW neither HR class. he only play GF and gwf so he probably heard somewhere that a 8 k hr got destroy by an 18k CW.
I putted some math in page 82 using the formula given by gentleman and take reasonnable PVP build in both side with the DR you can find in both side but also with the enchant and make math without even taking any special play or power like the revete shield from gf.
With or without actual shield, a CW need more than twice time to kill a passive GF than the opposite. and with shield slotted CW canno't even make enough damage to pass regen from a 40 k HP GF with 2K more regen (even with the fact that regen is cut by half it give up to 2K live point every 2 seconds, mean 15k while a full encounter roll of CW do almost 10K at best).
But honestly as far as i can see dev only provide good return to other class, while only taking our bug return.
in live server CW is the worst def by far, the third dps class, the fifth control class but most of the time the first debuf class.
IN previous server we are or the worst def and the 6 dps class (or the 6 def class and worst dps class depending of shield or not), the 5/6 control class competing with warlord and healer, and now the worst debuf class. there is not even now one single aspect that we can try to give in a pvp group
I am going to say it, and I hope my words bring some sense to these developers.
Dear Crush,
Can you please click on these video links and give YOUR feedback. This is what is waiting for us in Mod4 for an "OP GWF" ? The links here should provide you with "sufficient" feedback.
"CLICK" on the links and give us your thoughts. Ask other players to PvP YOU in your GWF and see the difference for yourself!
This is all there is, most up-to-date. Stop misinforming or share link (most-up-to-date).
Crush, un-nerf the Shield please. And don't forget GWFs and other classes shouldn't out-control CWs so nerf to the ground all their CC skills. ALL of them.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
"CWs are the only class ATM that can 1v1 HRs with ease. CWs will be mandatory for every premade. Period."
HAHA. Any decent HR can kill a CW in just a few seconds on prev. Stop talking **** here pls.
- If you are talking about on live, then yeah I agree. If you are talking about PTR. CW's absolutely murder HR's. And yes, even the best HR's can be beat by CW's. If you don't know this, then you should log onto the PTR and learn to play a little bit. I get it, you were like the GF's in mod 3 and didn't make it to many premades so I feel for you. But trust me when I say even after these fixes (it was broken lol) - you guys totallllllllly change the fight.
- I know you want to deal your large DPS from the previous mods. But with the unbelievable amount of control you guys now do, it would take a lot of revert/nerfing on that to bring the DPS back up.
- Having 1v1'd at least 15-20 cw's, some bad, some being some of the best, I have been stun locked while blocking for around 4-10 seconds. So, your single target DPS was taken down, but I am stuck for 3-4x as long as I ever have been so the DPS is still there, not to mention you guys get a free 4-5k damage that procs all the time.
- I am a Guardian. I played with a CW for the better part of 6 months from the first week of the game and Ive seen your nerfs and I get it. You guys were slightly above the GF for mod 3, were squishy, and the good CW's were so few and far between it was almost a joke to see one. But now you guys are as tanky as a GF, you can CC for crazy durations, and totally change a fight when you roll into it? You are a MUST have for pvp. So why are you still complaining? CW's are not meant to have more DR than any other class in the game, you wear cloth..
So log onto the PTR, and instead of it being a 15 second fight where you take no damage and have 2-3 capstones kill an enemy, you actually have to play, but can kill just about anyone. Yes, including HR's.
Breath.... Relax.... It'll be ok. CW's and GF's will be back for Mod 4, trust me!
I've given a lot of feedback in this thread. Sometimes I've called for buffs to certain aspects of how CW's powers work, other times I've called for them to be nerfed. If you look back several pages I was the person who initially called for Assailant to do less damage to other players than it does on non-playable characters before they changed it. Basically, I'm trying to be level-headed and fair when it comes to bringing back CW's in PvE damage while still making it fun and useful and not ruining the class for PvP. Doing this has probably made me pretty unpopular with certain segments of the CW player base on these boards (am I right Renegade's?).
All of that is to say, I'm am in no way a CW cheerleader who wants my classed buffed to the high heavens no matter what that does to other classes and overall game balance.
So you can trust me when I say if you actually believe this:
CWs are the only class ATM that can 1v1 HRs with ease. CWs will be mandatory for every premade. Period.
then you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about in any way, shape, or form. I was in Icewind Pass testing out Shield and Assailant BEFORE they got nerfed in the latest patch and I got DESTROYED by HR's. Their health never even dipped.
Show me a video since the latest patch that included the nerf to Assailant and Shield of a CW fighting 1v1 against an equally-geared and equally-skilled HR and not just winning, but winning "with ease."
I'm not sure if any videos have been really posted in that time, but sure. Add me in game - Dom@Freshour
I can take you to the PTR and talk with some of the good CW's and HR's, let you fight the HR, and then let them fight the HR. I am usually on in the evenings Eastern Time. So feel free to message me if you are truly interested in seeing this.
- I am just so pumped to get CW's back into premades (as well as GF's )
BTW, 1 thing to note as well, you dont HAVe to run Shield in mastery because Crush has stated:
"Shield will go down to retaining 25% of its effectiveness while destabilized. It dose this in 1 step in normal slots and 2 steps in Mastery Slots."
So I actually see no reason to put this in mastery as now the only gain is added DR when not taking dmg (meh) and control resist.
So Slot this NOT in tab, you have your tab open now AND with 20% Tenacity a BASE 40% DR.....
Can you even stop once put false thing here let says until v4 appear, even with gentleman posting you the formula you still put false info there to make your false argument looking true, you always taking one little part and not put how whole thing. i putted 2 page before how it interract with 2 real build of two real player . and reality is CW will need more than twice time to shot the GF than the opposite, reality is that wit hshield tabbed a CW canno't overcome in damage term a 2K regen 40K GF because he will do less damage than the GF will get HP at the end. I'm not even counting the fact that GF can reflect half damage to their owner with shield, not even consider any other life regen that can be get with campain gift not even consider that the 6 second just give for control to GWF is the exact time that any destructor actualy need to kill any CW
Speaking of DPS, War Wizard is more skilled than Control Wizard. Personally, I always think someday War Wizard will be introduced in this game and I can then enjoy playing a true damage dealer.
After Warlock release I don't think we'll see another spell casting class any time soon. Unless you mean battle mage as a 3rd CW paragon... if we agree that controlling might also go through damaging.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
Why do CWs have to waste a full encounter slot just to be as tanky as a gwf? If anything we should have the buffed shields defence to make up for having 1 less encounter slot, which is something you are forgetting lol
To be fair, GWF is also wasting an encounter on being more tanky (unstoppable).
But their "encounter slot" grants control immunity and even more dr then cw shield by a considerable amount
Plus on top of that they have easily as much if not more real control than a CW , it does seem strange that a CW with a magic shield cannot be as tanky as a GWF yet a GWF can control as well if not better than a CW.
- You are choosing to be a wizard, a freaking wizard. With HAMSTER AC, HAMSTER DR, but CONTROL, maaaaaagic, Damage. Maybe if you quit complaining about the fact that you were the most tanky class as a...... WIZARD (PTR) - and focused more on reducing CC in exchange for DPS (which you all missed and apparently don't like CC as a control wizard..), or perhaps strengthening a path "constructively" - you would get some changes.
I love control and damage, I really do, but we don't have anything to control. Any daze and we lose shard, any daze and we lose all our Chill stacks; lots of Deflection, lots of Control Immune, absurd amounts of DR and self-healing, our damage is nerfed deeply, etc etc etc.
If you know a PTR build that can control like a GWF can, plz link it to me! Id love to see that!
That's my point , there isn't any! at least not after tonight's changes to Takedown and Frontline surge go through (subconscious at work much? )
GWF now have the best of all worlds , excellent tankyness on top of huge dps potential on top of much too much control and instead of having access to one or the other GC has allowed himself to be manipulated into giving the GWF access to most if not all of it at once.
I think your mistaken... Did you not see this post?
So it IS what I was saying in the first place.
I went back 2 pages, didnt see your "Real" numbers. I can tell you REAL numbers though.
My GF has 46% DR. 34% ARP. 18% Tenacity
My GWF has 41% DR and 32% ARP. 19.1% tenacity.
No matter WHAT your CW's DR is, my ARP cancels it out.
Your tenacity still plays an effect and your shield still does as well.
Again you continue to ignore half thing to show your point. you ignore again bonus given by other thing. GWF sentinel get + 20 % DR last feat, you got also 15-30% more bonus with inflexible feat. that mean again 41+20+(15-30) = 76-91 DR.
With actual GF shield you get 80 % DR for 30 second + other class feat can provide more DR too.
Also before the first change on shield tab shield was already providing 15% while unstable. DID even one player use it in pvp no because it's useless.
Problem is you post here without knowing a thing with the only purpose to have your own class over dominate every other, your purpose was never to get an equilibrate PVP fight. With 50% shield and not the 50% damage on assaillant but only 100 - tenacity. it would have given CW able to compete with HR TR and GF. it would have only require some real little adjust on GF and a little more work on GWF and you would have ended with something really interesting for every class in PVP. but Now CW is nowwhere but the worst PVP class even behind Healer. But to know that you should have play CW on a reasonnable lvl in PVP. not making comment like you know every thing
and if you want to really prove your point build up a CW do video and post your fight agaisnt equally geared other class not even good player . if you are able to win even one fight except maybe the healer that would be already something big
I have no issue concentrating on control and less DPS , the question is why should GWF get not only massive tankyness , huge DPS as well as just about as much control if not more control than any control wizard? why should GWF get the best of everything at the same time as doing everything possible to try to nerf anything any everything that might make life a little more difficult in module 4?
GWFs got massive nerfs for module 4 man.. Have you not been reading the thread?
Unstoppable was nerfed 40%
GWFs no longer have any prones... Which is HUGE!
- I have been asking to remove CC immunity from sprint.
Takedown damage was nerfed ALOT. There is alot going on with GWFs they have nowhere near the control they have on LIVE.
GWFs got massive nerfs for module 4 man.. Have you not been reading the thread?
Unstoppable was nerfed 40%
GWFs no longer have any prones... Which is HUGE!
- I have been asking to remove CC immunity from sprint.
Takedown damage was nerfed ALOT. There is alot going on with GWFs they have nowhere near the control they have on LIVE.
I was one that asked for GWF buffs. Before the last patch hit I saw how squishy they were.
But understand this, we ONLY beat you guys with Assailing Force and Shield! Without these things we can't do NOTHING against ANY class, because our damage and our control look STUPID right now, due to the colossal decrease of our damage and the gigantic increase of ways to stop being controlled!
If I choose Renegade or Oppressor and not use Shield there's nothing I can do if someone get near me on PvP but go and get some coffee while the guy kill me. Yes, it is THAT easy to kill a non-thaumaturge CW without Shield.
GWFs got massive nerfs for module 4 man.. Have you not been reading the thread?
Unstoppable was nerfed 40%
GWFs no longer have any prones... Which is HUGE!
- I have been asking to remove CC immunity from sprint.
Takedown damage was nerfed ALOT. There is alot going on with GWFs they have nowhere near the control they have on LIVE.
So did CW's but the only difference is the average CW in module 3 didn't stand a chance , we got a crapload of damage nerfs with the module 4 changes but got a few buffs to balance it out and at least give us a chance in pvp then you guys come along and complain until that got taken away and now the simple fact is once again the average CW who isn't in a top pvp guild is pointless to play in pvp .
Anyways its pointless continuing the discussion , for most CW's now the class has been nerfed back to almost pointlessness , hope you guys and gentlemancrush are happy.
Again you continue to ignore half thing to show your point. you ignore again bonus given by other thing. GWF sentinel get + 20 % DR last feat, you got also 15-30% more bonus with inflexible feat. that mean again 41+20+(15-30) = 76-91 DR.
With actual GF shield you get 80 % DR for 30 second + other class feat can provide more DR too.
DR hardcaps at 80%.
Only Sentinels can spec for increased defense (not 20%) for a HUGE lack of damage. If you want to put Shield as a capstone for an additional +25% - id be ALL for it, then you couldnt have Assailing force+Shield though.
15-30% for (I think you mena) Unstoppable - which lasts about 4-5 seconds (shield is 100% uptime) and has the REVERSE effect of massive DR when not hit for 6 seconds.
The Sentinel Capstone makes DR MORE effective, and that + the AC T4 feat as a Sent youll be around 55-57% DR base. Unstoppable boosts you to 80% (CAPPED). But your also forgetting that DR can be mitigated Shield cannot.
I posted saying if Shield was to be added to BASE DR, it could be much higher at like 35%ish but then it would also be subject to DR caps as well as ARP mitigation. You can always mitigate DR down to negatives, your shield (and tenacity) in its own layer cannot! Which makes it MUCH stronger IMO.
You guys make nerfs in assumption every CW will be playing Thaumaturge tree (shield + assailing). And if you keep pushing it, CWs will have no other way! Because they will be too helpless if they go Oppressor or Renegade (no assailing).
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
Renegade and Oppressor are no damage paths. We've given our input on how to Fix it, but we have people from other classes come in here demanding nerfs that are causing an even greater gap in damage/survival of 2/3rds of all CW.
Only Sentinels can spec for increased defense (not 20%) for a HUGE lack of damage. If you want to put Shield as a capstone for an additional +25% - id be ALL for it, then you couldnt have Assailing force+Shield though.
15-30% for (I think you mena) Unstoppable - which lasts about 4-5 seconds (shield is 100% uptime) and has the REVERSE effect of massive DR when not hit for 6 seconds.
The Sentinel Capstone makes DR MORE effective, and that + the AC T4 feat as a Sent youll be around 55-57% DR base. Unstoppable boosts you to 80% (CAPPED). But your also forgetting that DR can be mitigated Shield cannot.
I posted saying if Shield was to be added to BASE DR, it could be much higher at like 35%ish but then it would also be subject to DR caps as well as ARP mitigation. You can always mitigate DR down to negatives, your shield (and tenacity) in its own layer cannot! Which makes it MUCH stronger IMO.
Go on test server build a CW correctly gear it with 14-15 k tenacity set and attack and def enchant and show us how you can fight with CW against other class of same lvl then post video. unless that stop reply there with your so famous theory of overpowered CW
You guys make nerfs in assumption every CW will be playing Thaumaturge tree (shield + assailing). And if you keep pushing it, CWs will have no other way! Because they will be too helpless if they go Oppressor or Renegade (no assailing).
Oppressor and renegade are even worst than thauma actually but thauma way is only putting CW near to be the worst pvp class. that even put the two other to a non even playable PVP class and that coming worst for oppressor since they drop out the new artifact that practicaly immun from all CW control power
I was one that asked for GWF buffs. Before the last patch hit I saw how squishy they were.
But understand this, we ONLY beat you guys with Assailing Force and Shield! Without these things we can't do NOTHING against ANY class, because our damage and our control look STUPID right now, due to the colossal decrease of our damage and the gigantic increase of ways to stop being controlled!
If I choose Renegade or Oppressor and not use Shield there's nothing I can do if someone get near me on PvP but go and get some coffee while the guy kill me. Yes, it is THAT easy to kill a non-thaumaturge CW without Shield.
Even Sentinel ATM feels super squishy against many classes. Sentinels are a joke right now on PTR, Destroyers are as well - just hit a little harder. You still have AF and Shield! And dont even need it in Mastery.
Id suggest (as I have) promoting encounter BUFFs! I, for one, think the Shard damage nerf was STUPID! That needs to be brought back up - esp for mastery because its really hard to use well (one of the most skillful things in game).
I would encourage you to look at this from a PVP perspective and not a 1v1 scenario. Nobody is going to send a CW to "node hold" 1v1 versus a GWF. A cw is going to ROCK in tandem with 1 more person. I think GF is the same way, they will excel in group pvp.
In a 1v1 a GWF will probably kill a CW, when its domination though there is ALOT you can do. If you won the point you can DPS them while they cannot DPS you.
Like I said, ATM Thaum + Sheild is really the best way to go, some ppl may not even use shield and try for a perma CC build! Maybe the focus needs to be on the other paths and not trying to keep a broken DR encounter....
So did CW's but the only difference is the average CW in module 3 didn't stand a chance , we got a crapload of damage nerfs with the module 4 changes but got a few buffs to balance it out and at least give us a chance in pvp then you guys come along and complain until that got taken away and now the simple fact is once again the average CW who isn't in a top pvp guild is pointless to play in pvp .
Anyways its pointless continuing the discussion , for most CW's now the class has been nerfed back to almost pointlessness , hope you guys and gentlemancrush are happy.
I could be rude but there is no point. In the end. GWFs were nerfed. CWs are in a better spot mod 4 than mod 3, HRs seemed to have been toned down in some areas. Overall, CW wont be worthless, there are alot of synergies with CW and GF.
Domination and PVP are team games, so it takes a team approach. Look at Perma TRs, they dont deal crazy damage, their main job is node holding, in 1v1s in IWD they have a hard time with alot of classes and it doesnt look good. Even DCs - make a HUGE difference.
CWs have been complaining for control, so they gave control, but at the loss of damage because you cant have damage+tons of control. If you think CW is lacking in damage, ask for beefing up dmg encounters!
You guys make nerfs in assumption every CW will be playing Thaumaturge tree (shield + assailing). And if you keep pushing it, CWs will have no other way! Because they will be too helpless if they go Oppressor or Renegade (no assailing).
Again, then your issue ISNT with this encounter its the other paths. Maybe make some suggestions about how to beef those up now that Shield is toned down.
Liek I said unfortunately the way they did all this with nerfing all your damage is Assailing is the ONLY way to PVP. I think thats kinda dumb IMO. Each tree should offer different but good options. So your issue is you only have 1, maybe ask for another.
BTW - most classes are almost forced into 1 build. Thats typically how PVP has been for a very long time. Only this recent mod SOME classes actually have true options.
Again, then your issue ISNT with this encounter its the other paths. Maybe make some suggestions about how to beef those up now that Shield is toned down.
I did just that on page 87 of this thread, and on many other occasions. To the extend I feel like broken record now. Somehow Devs do not respond. The suggestions only get lost while CW topic is flooded by arguments that could be conveyed elsewhere.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
I did just that on page 87 of this thread, and on many other occasions. To the extend I feel like broken record now. Somehow Devs do not respond. The suggestions only get lost while CW topic is flooded by arguments that could be conveyed elsewhere.
Ya that feels like alot of Forum posts these days. Quote yourself and refresh it! Ask for feedback from other players on it!
FEEDBACK: SHARD needs to deal more damage! Maybe not back to live values, but even a 25%+ increase from where it is now ATLEAST!
Comments
"Shield will go down to retaining 25% of its effectiveness while destabilized. It dose this in 1 step in normal slots and 2 steps in Mastery Slots."
So I actually see no reason to put this in mastery as now the only gain is added DR when not taking dmg (meh) and control resist.
So Slot this NOT in tab, you have your tab open now AND with 20% Tenacity a BASE 40% DR.....
We need it in mastery now because gwf got their control back from crying enough on their thread.
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
lol doN,t worry this guy's know what he speak about since he doesn't play CW neither HR class. he only play GF and gwf so he probably heard somewhere that a 8 k hr got destroy by an 18k CW.
I putted some math in page 82 using the formula given by gentleman and take reasonnable PVP build in both side with the DR you can find in both side but also with the enchant and make math without even taking any special play or power like the revete shield from gf.
With or without actual shield, a CW need more than twice time to kill a passive GF than the opposite. and with shield slotted CW canno't even make enough damage to pass regen from a 40 k HP GF with 2K more regen (even with the fact that regen is cut by half it give up to 2K live point every 2 seconds, mean 15k while a full encounter roll of CW do almost 10K at best).
But honestly as far as i can see dev only provide good return to other class, while only taking our bug return.
in live server CW is the worst def by far, the third dps class, the fifth control class but most of the time the first debuf class.
IN previous server we are or the worst def and the 6 dps class (or the 6 def class and worst dps class depending of shield or not), the 5/6 control class competing with warlord and healer, and now the worst debuf class. there is not even now one single aspect that we can try to give in a pvp group
This is all there is, most up-to-date. Stop misinforming or share link (most-up-to-date).
Crush, un-nerf the Shield please. And don't forget GWFs and other classes shouldn't out-control CWs so nerf to the ground all their CC skills. ALL of them.
- If you are talking about on live, then yeah I agree. If you are talking about PTR. CW's absolutely murder HR's. And yes, even the best HR's can be beat by CW's. If you don't know this, then you should log onto the PTR and learn to play a little bit. I get it, you were like the GF's in mod 3 and didn't make it to many premades so I feel for you. But trust me when I say even after these fixes (it was broken lol) - you guys totallllllllly change the fight.
- I know you want to deal your large DPS from the previous mods. But with the unbelievable amount of control you guys now do, it would take a lot of revert/nerfing on that to bring the DPS back up.
- Having 1v1'd at least 15-20 cw's, some bad, some being some of the best, I have been stun locked while blocking for around 4-10 seconds. So, your single target DPS was taken down, but I am stuck for 3-4x as long as I ever have been so the DPS is still there, not to mention you guys get a free 4-5k damage that procs all the time.
- I am a Guardian. I played with a CW for the better part of 6 months from the first week of the game and Ive seen your nerfs and I get it. You guys were slightly above the GF for mod 3, were squishy, and the good CW's were so few and far between it was almost a joke to see one. But now you guys are as tanky as a GF, you can CC for crazy durations, and totally change a fight when you roll into it? You are a MUST have for pvp. So why are you still complaining? CW's are not meant to have more DR than any other class in the game, you wear cloth..
So log onto the PTR, and instead of it being a 15 second fight where you take no damage and have 2-3 capstones kill an enemy, you actually have to play, but can kill just about anyone. Yes, including HR's.
Breath.... Relax.... It'll be ok. CW's and GF's will be back for Mod 4, trust me!
All of that is to say, I'm am in no way a CW cheerleader who wants my classed buffed to the high heavens no matter what that does to other classes and overall game balance.
So you can trust me when I say if you actually believe this:
then you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about in any way, shape, or form. I was in Icewind Pass testing out Shield and Assailant BEFORE they got nerfed in the latest patch and I got DESTROYED by HR's. Their health never even dipped.
Show me a video since the latest patch that included the nerf to Assailant and Shield of a CW fighting 1v1 against an equally-geared and equally-skilled HR and not just winning, but winning "with ease."
I'll wait.
I can take you to the PTR and talk with some of the good CW's and HR's, let you fight the HR, and then let them fight the HR. I am usually on in the evenings Eastern Time. So feel free to message me if you are truly interested in seeing this.
- I am just so pumped to get CW's back into premades (as well as GF's
Can you even stop once put false thing here let says until v4 appear, even with gentleman posting you the formula you still put false info there to make your false argument looking true, you always taking one little part and not put how whole thing. i putted 2 page before how it interract with 2 real build of two real player . and reality is CW will need more than twice time to shot the GF than the opposite, reality is that wit hshield tabbed a CW canno't overcome in damage term a 2K regen 40K GF because he will do less damage than the GF will get HP at the end. I'm not even counting the fact that GF can reflect half damage to their owner with shield, not even consider any other life regen that can be get with campain gift not even consider that the 6 second just give for control to GWF is the exact time that any destructor actualy need to kill any CW
After Warlock release I don't think we'll see another spell casting class any time soon. Unless you mean battle mage as a 3rd CW paragon... if we agree that controlling might also go through damaging.
To be fair, GWF is also wasting an encounter on being more tanky (unstoppable).
But their "encounter slot" grants control immunity and even more dr then cw shield by a considerable amount
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
Plus on top of that they have easily as much if not more real control than a CW , it does seem strange that a CW with a magic shield cannot be as tanky as a GWF yet a GWF can control as well if not better than a CW.
I love control and damage, I really do, but we don't have anything to control. Any daze and we lose shard, any daze and we lose all our Chill stacks; lots of Deflection, lots of Control Immune, absurd amounts of DR and self-healing, our damage is nerfed deeply, etc etc etc.
We're not encouraged to control nor deal damage.
That's my point , there isn't any! at least not after tonight's changes to Takedown and Frontline surge go through (subconscious at work much? )
GWF now have the best of all worlds , excellent tankyness on top of huge dps potential on top of much too much control and instead of having access to one or the other GC has allowed himself to be manipulated into giving the GWF access to most if not all of it at once.
Again you continue to ignore half thing to show your point. you ignore again bonus given by other thing. GWF sentinel get + 20 % DR last feat, you got also 15-30% more bonus with inflexible feat. that mean again 41+20+(15-30) = 76-91 DR.
With actual GF shield you get 80 % DR for 30 second + other class feat can provide more DR too.
Also before the first change on shield tab shield was already providing 15% while unstable. DID even one player use it in pvp no because it's useless.
Problem is you post here without knowing a thing with the only purpose to have your own class over dominate every other, your purpose was never to get an equilibrate PVP fight. With 50% shield and not the 50% damage on assaillant but only 100 - tenacity. it would have given CW able to compete with HR TR and GF. it would have only require some real little adjust on GF and a little more work on GWF and you would have ended with something really interesting for every class in PVP. but Now CW is nowwhere but the worst PVP class even behind Healer. But to know that you should have play CW on a reasonnable lvl in PVP. not making comment like you know every thing
and if you want to really prove your point build up a CW do video and post your fight agaisnt equally geared other class not even good player . if you are able to win even one fight except maybe the healer that would be already something big
GWFs got massive nerfs for module 4 man.. Have you not been reading the thread?
Unstoppable was nerfed 40%
GWFs no longer have any prones... Which is HUGE!
- I have been asking to remove CC immunity from sprint.
Takedown damage was nerfed ALOT. There is alot going on with GWFs they have nowhere near the control they have on LIVE.
I was one that asked for GWF buffs. Before the last patch hit I saw how squishy they were.
But understand this, we ONLY beat you guys with Assailing Force and Shield! Without these things we can't do NOTHING against ANY class, because our damage and our control look STUPID right now, due to the colossal decrease of our damage and the gigantic increase of ways to stop being controlled!
If I choose Renegade or Oppressor and not use Shield there's nothing I can do if someone get near me on PvP but go and get some coffee while the guy kill me. Yes, it is THAT easy to kill a non-thaumaturge CW without Shield.
So did CW's but the only difference is the average CW in module 3 didn't stand a chance , we got a crapload of damage nerfs with the module 4 changes but got a few buffs to balance it out and at least give us a chance in pvp then you guys come along and complain until that got taken away and now the simple fact is once again the average CW who isn't in a top pvp guild is pointless to play in pvp .
Anyways its pointless continuing the discussion , for most CW's now the class has been nerfed back to almost pointlessness , hope you guys and gentlemancrush are happy.
DR hardcaps at 80%.
Only Sentinels can spec for increased defense (not 20%) for a HUGE lack of damage. If you want to put Shield as a capstone for an additional +25% - id be ALL for it, then you couldnt have Assailing force+Shield though.
15-30% for (I think you mena) Unstoppable - which lasts about 4-5 seconds (shield is 100% uptime) and has the REVERSE effect of massive DR when not hit for 6 seconds.
The Sentinel Capstone makes DR MORE effective, and that + the AC T4 feat as a Sent youll be around 55-57% DR base. Unstoppable boosts you to 80% (CAPPED). But your also forgetting that DR can be mitigated Shield cannot.
I posted saying if Shield was to be added to BASE DR, it could be much higher at like 35%ish but then it would also be subject to DR caps as well as ARP mitigation. You can always mitigate DR down to negatives, your shield (and tenacity) in its own layer cannot! Which makes it MUCH stronger IMO.
Go on test server build a CW correctly gear it with 14-15 k tenacity set and attack and def enchant and show us how you can fight with CW against other class of same lvl then post video. unless that stop reply there with your so famous theory of overpowered CW
Oppressor and renegade are even worst than thauma actually but thauma way is only putting CW near to be the worst pvp class. that even put the two other to a non even playable PVP class and that coming worst for oppressor since they drop out the new artifact that practicaly immun from all CW control power
Even Sentinel ATM feels super squishy against many classes. Sentinels are a joke right now on PTR, Destroyers are as well - just hit a little harder. You still have AF and Shield! And dont even need it in Mastery.
Id suggest (as I have) promoting encounter BUFFs! I, for one, think the Shard damage nerf was STUPID! That needs to be brought back up - esp for mastery because its really hard to use well (one of the most skillful things in game).
I would encourage you to look at this from a PVP perspective and not a 1v1 scenario. Nobody is going to send a CW to "node hold" 1v1 versus a GWF. A cw is going to ROCK in tandem with 1 more person. I think GF is the same way, they will excel in group pvp.
In a 1v1 a GWF will probably kill a CW, when its domination though there is ALOT you can do. If you won the point you can DPS them while they cannot DPS you.
Like I said, ATM Thaum + Sheild is really the best way to go, some ppl may not even use shield and try for a perma CC build! Maybe the focus needs to be on the other paths and not trying to keep a broken DR encounter....
I could be rude but there is no point. In the end. GWFs were nerfed. CWs are in a better spot mod 4 than mod 3, HRs seemed to have been toned down in some areas. Overall, CW wont be worthless, there are alot of synergies with CW and GF.
Domination and PVP are team games, so it takes a team approach. Look at Perma TRs, they dont deal crazy damage, their main job is node holding, in 1v1s in IWD they have a hard time with alot of classes and it doesnt look good. Even DCs - make a HUGE difference.
CWs have been complaining for control, so they gave control, but at the loss of damage because you cant have damage+tons of control. If you think CW is lacking in damage, ask for beefing up dmg encounters!
Again, then your issue ISNT with this encounter its the other paths. Maybe make some suggestions about how to beef those up now that Shield is toned down.
Liek I said unfortunately the way they did all this with nerfing all your damage is Assailing is the ONLY way to PVP. I think thats kinda dumb IMO. Each tree should offer different but good options. So your issue is you only have 1, maybe ask for another.
BTW - most classes are almost forced into 1 build. Thats typically how PVP has been for a very long time. Only this recent mod SOME classes actually have true options.
I did just that on page 87 of this thread, and on many other occasions. To the extend I feel like broken record now. Somehow Devs do not respond. The suggestions only get lost while CW topic is flooded by arguments that could be conveyed elsewhere.
Ya that feels like alot of Forum posts these days. Quote yourself and refresh it! Ask for feedback from other players on it!
FEEDBACK:
SHARD needs to deal more damage! Maybe not back to live values, but even a 25%+ increase from where it is now ATLEAST!