Idk what you guys' deal is but cw has been so bugged lately. First the op shield that does 50% dr on top whatever else you have for dr. Then assailant(I'll deal with it). Now smolder + bile procs after soulforged? Let's not even get into overload enchants that does 10k damage that cant be mitigated or the other overload enchant that does 50% dr plus the shield that does another 50% dr. Seriously, mod 4 is in a few weeks is this basically what mod 4 is gonna be like? If so just tell me now so I can make arrangements.
Shield got nerfed and the rework goes live next preview patch (dr will be 25%).
Assailant got nerfed too and hits players for half the damage now.
Don't worry, they're reeeeeeally fast when it comes to nerfs.
You mean the shard that deals overall 1,5k damage only when placed correctly in the back of the head of someone that has the biggest cooldown of all our powers?
Yea I think it's very OP and needs some nerfs.
(´･ ω ･`)
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dingleberrytruthMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 25Arc User
edited July 2014
Watching the focus on tweaks and the changes which are happening to our CWs is as frustrating as watching Akro playing his GWF in his first few streams....
At least he presses tab now.
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fgmfanhaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
Went on the Preview Shard today and a question popped my mind while trying out Assailing Force... Sometimes it Ticks Red and Sometimes it ticks Blue, is there any diference?
Went on the Preview Shard today and a question popped my mind while trying out Assailing Force... Sometimes it Ticks Red and Sometimes it ticks Blue, is there any diference?
Should be blue when it procs and red when actually hits the opponent with the next strike.
You mean the shard that deals overall 1,5k damage only when placed correctly in the back of the head of someone that has the biggest cooldown of all our powers?
Yea I think it's very OP and needs some nerfs.
Exactly, no other class that has a lvl 45/50 damage encounter that crits for 1k. DC INCLUDED.
Some other class powers in the past were nerfed by a high amount, but when it was explained and proved by the class players that the nerf was too much you devs right or wrong cut the nerf by a decent amount after a couple weeks or less. Example:
Hunter Ranger: Split Shot: The damage reduction on this power has been readjusted. This power now has a total reduction of about 25% (down from 48%).
And this wasn't even a 60% nerf.
It's been over a month right now, multiple players already stated and proved since the creation of the thread that this encounter CRITS FOR 1k AND GETS DEFLECTED FOR 400 dmg, please do something about it.
I get that in pve it needed to be toned down, but there's several way this encounter can at least reach the 4/5k dmg range while on mastery for PVP.
How could they nerf an encounter like shard of endless avalanche this severely after a year in the game? Its the only thing control wizards have that takes skill to use.
Like, i would understand this nerf if it wasnt effected by armor pen, because then it would be 20% better when they fixed it, but i heard its already effected by armor penetration. so Why do they think its necessary to nerf the overall damage output by like 75%? its absurd. similar to what v1rus said, i dont believe that there has been a nerf this severe for an encounter yet, and this game has been out a year!
Please! perfect world team..... dont do this to shard. buff it some atleast! it is absolutely useless now
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mircalla83Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 36
edited July 2014
Maybe up its Damage again, but remove (unless used by an Oppressor) the majority of Control it can provide? Maybe get rid of the current 'throw back and prone' and turn it into a Daze (works as Stun against NPCs, remember? and getting hit with a concussive wave would surely daze you).
Right now, on Live, the only saving grace it has is its high damage - because otherwise, SotEA can be seen as some kind of 'Trolling' of the rest of the group by throwing Shard into the mobs, just as the rest of the team prepares their own AoEs - and then watch them nuke emptyness into oblivion because everything not control immune is bowled all over the room by Shard blowing up.
1 Do you think in live server CW is a good or a bad PVP class ?
2 What is the main play that you find from most CW in PVP ? so to speak what their roles in the PVP group ?
3 Do you think the change done change anything from point 1 and 2 ?
And 4 Give us one good reason to still play a CW that in actual situation is unable to play PVP and in the same time is becoming a real hard class to lvl up and play solo unless you completly outgear the map and in same time that became an easy replacable class for dongeon ?
Most of this is due to gentlemancrush making changes to the CW based on feedback from GWF/GF who obviously have ulterior motives , he buffs something , GWF/GF see that they aren't as effective or efficient against CW anymore so they come here and whine he renerfs ,its idiotic.
Now some GWF have started whining they want Takedown to be given back it's prone , who's willing to bet gentlemancrush caves in and pampers to them?
These devs have no idea how to balance the classes properly, nerf after stupid nerf. Play the game and see what the problem is...don't depend on posts on the forums from whiners.
crazymikee, what you purpose don't change anything for CW in PVP on previous server. What was giving us a little chance in live server (a really little) was armor pen feat and debuf spell (and that in thauma or renegade way). Without that buff dammage are already cut by 3 or even 4 on live server. Since they practicaly taking it all + reducing damage around 15 to 30 % on single target we are doing 30-40% of damage now.
let take a fight in live server between a GF or GWF with 80% dr (yes sentinel can goes to more than 80% with inflexible). 1 if you have entrengling force it do 0 damage against control immun target). let make count on thauma way with a classic and consider the best for the CW (spell not block by all instant control encounter on GF or GWF). default ice knife, ray of enfeeblisment in tab, ice conduct, let say steal time and chill strike for damage. base damage on my character in same order 12K,6K, 4K,4K,6K. alos lvl 9 spell plague enchant
with 15% armor pen and the fact that arcane spell reduce armor 10% more (t4 feat of thauma) you get in this order.
(ice knife usable only once)
1 ice conduct: 4k * (1-0.8+0.15)*(1-0.2(tenacity))= 1.12 K
2 ray : 6K * (1-0.8+0.1+0.15+0.1)*(1-0.2 )*(1.15+1.15)= 2.8 k
3 second ray: (most of time i see that both in live and test server second ray do 0 damage): 6K * (1-0.8+0.1+0.3+0.15)*(1.45)=5.22K
4 ice knife: 12K *(1-0.8+0.3+0.15)*(1-0.2)*1.45=10.44K
5 and 6 give an extra summ of 8.7. mean your doing at all 28k dammage mean to shot a GF and GWF with 80 DR you need if he let you strike 2 full roll of spell to shot him (40K life) 30 second.. here that the best without blocking or dodging or be controled or interrupt even once + ice knife charged (practicaly 50% damage here) mean without ice knife = 18k roll
now let see in test server with same spell.
ice knife do 11k base, ray: 4K, ice conduct:3K, steal time 6K, and chill strike:4k let also say that with the actual statment assaillant will proc once per 10 second (here is best since it's the minimal time that it can proc)
same fight.
1 ice conduct: 3k * (1-0.8+0.15)*(1-0.8):0.84K
2 ray: 4K *(1-0.8+0.15+0.10)*(1-0.8)*1.15: 1.656
3 second ray.4K *(1-0.8+0.15+0.30)*(1-0.8)*1.30: 2.7k
4 ice knife 11K*(1-0.8+0.15+0.30)*(1-0.8)*1.30: 7.37 K
5 the rest: 6.7K damage and add 1 assaillant for 4 k: =17.61 k + 4 k = 21k at all. and 14K without ice knife: mean 45 second to kill without any dodge or anything nore any life back.
with new shield slotted in tab
taking same other spell just replace chill strike with ray (couting assaillant proc same once per roll)
1 ice conduct: 3k * (1-0.8+0.15)*(1-0.8):0.84K
2 ray: 4K *(1-0.8+0.15+0.10)*(1-0.8)*1.15: 1.656
3 ice knife 11K*(1-0.8+0.15+0.30)*(1-0.8)*1.15: 6.5 K
4 steal time: 6k*(1-0.8+0.15+0.30)*(1-0.8)*1.15:3.5K
total 12.5k with ice knife +4k from assaillant: 16.5k without ice knife: 10K dammage mean 1 min to kill a passive player
know let see the other side. since def haven't change from live server and test server without shield it pretty the same.
1 all GF and GWF have at least 1 feat that provide 0.1 DR reduce+ let say a terror enchant lvl 9 and same 15% Dr ignore
A wizard can have at best 30% dr. mean only the first shot will have 5% dr left rest is 100% damage* 0.8 for tenacity
with a mere 6K medium feat damage it give
first shot: 6K *(1-0.05)*(1-0.8):4.56K
rest :4.8k
daily : 12k = 9.6
total: 23.76 K (as you can see i do not count any boost dammage to consider a fight against a GF. against GWF you can easely up that by 1.25%). with a 25K or 30K PV CW; your are near or already dead if even one crit (since we have 0 deflect value)
with shield and against a player that do not strike with at will to reduce damage it give
4.56*(1-0.8):0.912k
4.8*(1-0.5):2.4k
4.8*(1-0.25):3.6k
9.6*(1-0.25):7.2k
=14k and since shield will not reup after first roll, second role also do 3.6k each mean 10.8k . mean we are dead in 2 roll of encounter.
And since our at will do less damage we canno't hope anything from there too.
PS in GF case with there 30 second up shield we will be dead before we can control them with shield down and since we don't have any control immun we are already dead before doing any spell.
With on live server we already have hard time with a ratio of 20-25 second to kill vs 15 second for other due to control immun.
now on previous server we need twice the time we needed in live server with nothing else change for control or anything else.
Even with the 50% last shield lvl we were at disavatage but not an unpassable one
Edit:
in all that" i took each time the best case for CW but practically always min case for opponent (best enchant to debuf DR etc. just immage what damage if you do not even use spellplague. we are speaking of 6-7 K damage with a whole roll for CW also with enought HP regen, CW do not even do enough damage to overcome a passive regen GF GWF that is not behind is screen) .
Also the new artefact, if it not for purpose against CW. i doN,t see what is it again. doN,t worry we trade your damage VS some control and then give a control immun to especially your control power for every one
Its very disappointing as a new player of the game to have the toon I have put so much time into building (haven't even hit 60 yet) nerfed into uselessness. Yes, I do mean USELESS. There is no incentive for me to finish leveling this character. It has no future in PVP, will not be able to hold its own in a group, nor will it be viable as a solo PVE character once the planned changes go live. I urge the Devs to please play a CW themselves and not just rely on posts from the forums. You cannot accurately balance a character if you do not play it.
I am not the most skilled player out there but I love to play. But there is nothing worse than playing a toon that has had its damage gutted by nerfs. Especially if those nerfs are made in part to appease another class because they don't want competition. The planned nerfs will drive me right out of the game.
I don't know how many CWs will suffer yet another module of being rag dolls in PvP. Even PvE won't make up for it this time. Picture level of frustration.
Just put it in perspective. You appear to be more willing to listen to the GWFs spoiled by over a year of OP in PvP, bugged skills (bugged to their advantage) and now prone+kessel artifact bug to one shot some classes. Those GWFs probably forgot (the new ones never knew) how it feels to struggle for life in PvP and still be of some utility. You are very responsive to gamers, who once they see they can't kill a class with 2 encounters start crying for this class nerf. You don't promote skilful play this way.
Shield buff (not this nerfed useless one, which no CW will now exchange for damaging encounter) would only make CW more hard to kill but not immortal (as some GWFs now are, and HRs will be with module 4). Strong Shield also would not mean that every CW will use it. Some still would prefer more DPS.
Why nerfing CWs single target skills by the way? They are not even used in PvE. They are mostly PvP support for already weakest class. Are you planning to make CWs PvP time even more horrible then it was module2 and module3? I guess it's possible!
And last but not least: you would do well to promote skilful play. And it just so happens that Shard requires Skill with capital S. And even much so on Tab. Skill and willingness to use it (despite long casting time and numerous bugs) should be rewarded with satisfactory damage. This would be only fair. I agree it was OP but only in PvE. Shouldn't be this weak in PvP.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
Now some GWF have started whining they want Takedown to be given back it's prone , who's willing to bet gentlemancrush caves in and pampers to them?
Wow lol , maybe he hasn't given Takedown a prone but he did increase Takedowns stun by a second , how nice it must be....
How about some 'QoL' improvements for CW? because as of now GWF has a better ability to control than Control wizard does...
Hey all, we are making 2 changes for PVP QoL improvements.
Great Weapon Fighter: Takedown: Base stun increased to 3 seconds (up from 2 seconds).
Great Weapon Fighter: Frontline Surge: Base stun increased to 3 seconds (up from 2 seconds).
be more tanky than a tank in pvp and not even have to cast damage encounters and you can focus on controlling and not being hit - each time you are hit briartwine has a chance to proc assailing.
These changes basically means any PVP CW will have to roll for Assailing force. period.
The shield nerf was more than needed since CWs with shield will have a TON of tankiness still.
CWs are the only class ATM that can 1v1 HRs with ease. CWs will be mandatory for every premade. Period.
IMO, these changes will make CW very very strong, but pigeon hole CWs for PVP purposes.
FYI - with a broken shield (tab or non-tab since I think they do the same 25%) + 20% Tenacity you will have an unmitigated 40% DR. Thats more than I can say for almost any class.... Even the Sent GWF with 55%+ DR can get mitigated down into the 20s meaning that your CW will take as much dmg as a Sentinel GWF outside Unstoppable....
Its very disappointing as a new player of the game to have the toon I have put so much time into building (haven't even hit 60 yet) nerfed into uselessness. Yes, I do mean USELESS. There is no incentive for me to finish leveling this character. It has no future in PVP, will not be able to hold its own in a group, nor will it be viable as a solo PVE character once the planned changes go live. I urge the Devs to please play a CW themselves and not just rely on posts from the forums. You cannot accurately balance a character if you do not play it.
I am not the most skilled player out there but I love to play. But there is nothing worse than playing a toon that has had its damage gutted by nerfs. Especially if those nerfs are made in part to appease another class because they don't want competition. The planned nerfs will drive me right out of the game.
Wasn't as if an early CW could compete with a HR in terms of damage in the first place....
be more tanky than a tank in pvp and not even have to cast damage encounters and you can focus on controlling and not being hit - each time you are hit briartwine has a chance to proc assailing.
These changes basically means any PVP CW will have to roll for Assailing force. period.
The shield nerf was more than needed since CWs with shield will have a TON of tankiness still.
CWs are the only class ATM that can 1v1 HRs with ease. CWs will be mandatory for every premade. Period.
IMO, these changes will make CW very very strong, but pigeon hole CWs for PVP purposes.
FYI - with a broken shield (tab or non-tab since I think they do the same 25%) + 20% Tenacity you will have an unmitigated 40% DR. Thats more than I can say for almost any class.... Even the Sent GWF with 55%+ DR can get mitigated down into the 20s meaning that your CW will take as much dmg as a Sentinel GWF outside Unstoppable....
In another post i read , you said that you never played a cw. Then how in heavens name can you have an opinion about them that is objective and true? Well i say take Gwfs and Hr and give them zero control.Leave control to CONTROL Wizards.Just to balance things out. That means no Prones,no Stuns, no Nothing for them.
I hope you realize 20% tenacity isn't +20% dr, as stated by gmc earlier on this thread lol. From what he said and how I understood it, tenacity is similar to some of the gwf feats that increase one skill by a percentage of another, meaning whatever your dr is, it will be 20% higher with tenacity. Not 20% +20%,
And with shield CWs were able to have a fair fight versus other classes, now it's a losing fight just like it always has been, I have lost most of my fights on the preview now after they changed shield, and before they changed shield it was a pretty even fight for the most part. Just because CWs won't be the most picked on class in PvP now doesn't mean you need to batter any kind of buffs they are getting.
-Chill Strike: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Damage reduced by roughly 15%
-Conduit of Ice: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Damage reduced by roughly 17%.
-Magic Missile: Casting times have been reverted to their live state. Damage has been reduced by roughly 32%.
-Master of Flame: Fanning the Flame: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Base damage reduced by roughly 33%.
-Oppressive Force: This power has had its overall damage reduced by roughly 9%.
-Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its base impact damage reduced by roughly 33%.
-Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its explosion damage reduced by roughly 60%.
-Wizard's Wrath: This feat now grants 1/2/3% area of effect damage (down from 2/4/6%).
-Arcane Enhancement: This feat now grants 1/2/3% more Arcane damage (down from 2/4/6%).
-Blighting Power: This feat now grants 2/4/6% more cold damage (down from 3/6/9%).
Thats not even MENTIONING the nurfs done to the paragon feat trees...
And you still want to find ways to nurf the CW? Stop f**king kicking us when we are down, your two classes have only been getting better since the initial updates on preview and CW has only gotten worse
be more tanky than a tank in pvp and not even have to cast damage encounters and you can focus on controlling and not being hit - each time you are hit briartwine has a chance to proc assailing.
These changes basically means any PVP CW will have to roll for Assailing force. period.
The shield nerf was more than needed since CWs with shield will have a TON of tankiness still.
CWs are the only class ATM that can 1v1 HRs with ease. CWs will be mandatory for every premade. Period.
IMO, these changes will make CW very very strong, but pigeon hole CWs for PVP purposes.
FYI - with a broken shield (tab or non-tab since I think they do the same 25%) + 20% Tenacity you will have an unmitigated 40% DR. Thats more than I can say for almost any class.... Even the Sent GWF with 55%+ DR can get mitigated down into the 20s meaning that your CW will take as much dmg as a Sentinel GWF outside Unstoppable....
CWs are the only class ATM that can 1v1 HRs with ease. CWs will be mandatory for every premade. Period.
ive fought k4to and critical 2 of the best hrs in game, and on the PTR when shield was just buffed, and they <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> me within 10 seconds each. no class has a chance in the slightest against CW. you are just crying the fk out on the cw class forums because after they gimped your broken class after a 6 months at being top in pvp, you are trying to make CWs be so bad and squishy as fk and so low damage that a gwf at this current state could kill them. GWF has always been a zero skill class to play and thats why someone like you plays it and feels like its necessary to insert themselves into another classes thread to make sure you are still on top. so please.
get out of the cw forums. you opinions and your fake attempts at making cw seem op is not wanted here.
be more tanky than a tank in pvp and not even have to cast damage encounters and you can focus on controlling and not being hit - each time you are hit briartwine has a chance to proc assailing.
These changes basically means any PVP CW will have to roll for Assailing force. period.
The shield nerf was more than needed since CWs with shield will have a TON of tankiness still.
CWs are the only class ATM that can 1v1 HRs with ease. CWs will be mandatory for every premade. Period.
IMO, these changes will make CW very very strong, but pigeon hole CWs for PVP purposes.
FYI - with a broken shield (tab or non-tab since I think they do the same 25%) + 20% Tenacity you will have an unmitigated 40% DR. Thats more than I can say for almost any class.... Even the Sent GWF with 55%+ DR can get mitigated down into the 20s meaning that your CW will take as much dmg as a Sentinel GWF outside Unstoppable....
You do understand that CW is the only DPS class that cannot effectively stack Deflection to high values, right? I hope you know too that we don't have anything to counter control.
While most classes INCLUDING GWF get 50%+ of damage reduction with Deflection almost all the time and can avoid control whenever they want, our Shield was brutally nerfed and the control immune armory was increased.
be more tanky than a tank in pvp and not even have to cast damage encounters and you can focus on controlling and not being hit - each time you are hit briartwine has a chance to proc assailing.
These changes basically means any PVP CW will have to roll for Assailing force. period.
The shield nerf was more than needed since CWs with shield will have a TON of tankiness still.
CWs are the only class ATM that can 1v1 HRs with ease. CWs will be mandatory for every premade. Period.
IMO, these changes will make CW very very strong, but pigeon hole CWs for PVP purposes.
FYI - with a broken shield (tab or non-tab since I think they do the same 25%) + 20% Tenacity you will have an unmitigated 40% DR. Thats more than I can say for almost any class.... Even the Sent GWF with 55%+ DR can get mitigated down into the 20s meaning that your CW will take as much dmg as a Sentinel GWF outside Unstoppable....
Seriously this guy has NO CLUE...
How is it that Devs listen to his opinion?
We are getting nerfed because a GWF thinks a CW wants to hold a Node by being Tankish? What I want is a respectable Daily that does 20k Damage like other classes so we can gain some respect.
I want a repel that will actually repel someone.
I want my Single Target Damage to be an actual threat to some rather than some random ability that may or not proc.
I want to be able to cast without getting interrupted or dodged because casting and animation take so long.
CW get little to NO Respect in PVP and it's not going to change with this nerf. We will be the free kill that everyone goes after first.
I hope you realize 20% tenacity isn't +20% dr, as stated by gmc earlier on this thread lol. From what he said and how I understood it, tenacity is similar to some of the gwf feats that increase one skill by a percentage of another, meaning whatever your dr is, it will be 20% higher with tenacity. Not 20% +20%,
And with shield CWs were able to have a fair fight versus other classes, now it's a losing fight just like it always has been, I have lost most of my fights on the preview now after they changed shield, and before they changed shield it was a pretty even fight for the most part. Just because CWs won't be the most picked on class in PvP now doesn't mean you need to batter any kind of buffs they are getting.
The only thing I ever said needed changing is Assailing force was TOO op and Shield was too OP, I agree some damage needs to be brought back but CWs are still very strong.
You also should see Crush correcting himself saying he did it wrong.
I went and looked up the formula again and I made an error when reading the parenthesis for the first post I made on the math.
It is indeed Damage * (1-Dres) * (1-Tenacity) * (1-Shield).
While the net effect is similar, it means that being reduced to zero Dres does NOT negate your tenacity.
Additionally this is one of the original reasons that Arpen Resistance was removed.
Apologies, I misread the formula when doing the research for the first post.
The formula is:
Final Damage = Damage * (1-DR) * (1-Tenacity) * (1-Shield)
So a CW with ZERO DR 20% tenacity and 25% shield now:
1000 * (1-0)*(1-20%)*(1-25%) = 600 final damage.
A GF with 50% DR being attacked by a guy with 25% ARP and 20% tenacity:
1000 * (1-.25)*(1-.20) = 600 final damage.
TLDR: A CW with shield and zero DR = a GF with 50% DR.
The old method, CWs were getting a 60% DR base that could not be mitigated at all. Do you know how much DR a GF would need to equal that being attacked with 25% ARP (easy)? 75% DR... Tell me thats not broken...
You want a CW to have the equiv in PVP of 75% DR? Shield needed a tone down. BTW its not HALF as effective its only dropping your BASE DR from 60% to 40% (with 20% tenacity) and it CANT be mitigated.
I have yet so see some record on GWFs thread that shows how impossible CWs are for GWFs. So far I've seen only HR, TR and GF. Where's CW one?
Or better yet, Go, roll a CW, and see how "OP" this class is. See for yourself how "easy" it is to stay alive while dealing <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage and having <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> defence.
Crush, reverse shield nerf. You are making CWs hopeless again just to satisfy GWFs you guys have been spoiling for over a year now. Let them grow some skill!
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
I have yet so see some record on GWFs thread that shows how impossible CWs are for GWFs. So far I've seen only HR, TR and GF. Where's CW one?
Or better yet, Go, roll a CW, and see how "OP" this class is. See for yourself how "easy" it is to stay alive while dealing <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage and having <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> defence.
Crush, reverse shield nerf. You are making CWs hopeless again just to satisfy GWFs you guys have been spoiling for over a year now. Let them grow some skill!
You clearly have not been in the GWF thread at all then
The only thing I ever said needed changing is Assailing force was TOO op and Shield was too OP, I agree some damage needs to be brought back but CWs are still very strong.
You also should see Crush correcting himself saying he did it wrong.
The formula is:
Final Damage = Damage * (1-DR) * (1-Tenacity) * (1-Shield)
So a CW with ZERO DR 20% tenacity and 25% shield now:
1000 * (1-0)*(1-20%)*(1-25%) = 600 final damage.
A GF with 50% DR being attacked by a guy with 25% ARP and 20% tenacity:
1000 * (1-.25)*(1-.20) = 600 final damage.
TLDR: A CW with shield and zero DR = a GF with 50% DR.
The old method, CWs were getting a 60% DR base that could not be mitigated at all. Do you know how much DR a GF would need to equal that being attacked with 25% ARP (easy)? 75% DR... Tell me thats not broken...
You want a CW to have the equiv in PVP of 75% DR? Shield needed a tone down. BTW its not HALF as effective its only dropping your BASE DR from 60% to 40% (with 20% tenacity) and it CANT be mitigated.
The fact is though pure math doesn't always equate to what actually happens. On the preview right now with the 50% base shield resistance, I cannot 1v1 a gf/hr of the same caliber. You have to take in effect the players gear / skill aswell as the math. If a gwf with 18k pure pvp build fights a cw with 18k pure pvp build right now on preview, the fight will be fairly even. We can test this right now if you want, but your relying on pure numbers and not actual ingame tests. the only way to accuratly test the changes is to play on a cw yourself, and not make 3rd person observations. On preview right now CWs do have a fairly good upperhand but ONLY to people not as prepared as the cw. Thats how it always should be, if you are better at your class, and are better geared, then you should have the advantage. With CWs all the endgame pvp cws are at their best, and cw is a naturally harder class to play then gwf, so meaning most endgame cws are better then most endgame gwfs, in terms of skill at the game.
That being said, unless you have a cw (which you have previously stated you don't) then you shouldn't post feedback about CWs until you have gotten a hands on feel for the changes, changes which right now all CWs on the preview feel like there getting a punch in the face from all the nurfs, and you're 3rd person feedback of every little thing that we still have / have gotten back is really depressing. Assailiant procs on ALL outgoing damage, correctly stated by the devs, no matter what kind of damage it is, and even with assailiant procs, it has a cooldown, aswell as a big damage nurf, which is equal to barely 2 sure strikes from a gwf, because gwf at wills hit like a tank, while the cw counterpart, magic missile, will crit for a max damage of 500, even with arcane mastery and the most offensive gear I can get. It's just not right that you think CWs are op in any way. They never have been and in this manner they never will be.
Comments
Shield got nerfed and the rework goes live next preview patch (dr will be 25%).
Assailant got nerfed too and hits players for half the damage now.
Don't worry, they're reeeeeeally fast when it comes to nerfs.
Yes I know that but what about the other stuff?
You mean the shard that deals overall 1,5k damage only when placed correctly in the back of the head of someone that has the biggest cooldown of all our powers?
Yea I think it's very OP and needs some nerfs.
At least he presses tab now.
Exactly, no other class that has a lvl 45/50 damage encounter that crits for 1k. DC INCLUDED.
Some other class powers in the past were nerfed by a high amount, but when it was explained and proved by the class players that the nerf was too much you devs right or wrong cut the nerf by a decent amount after a couple weeks or less.
Example:
Hunter Ranger: Split Shot: The damage reduction on this power has been readjusted. This power now has a total reduction of about 25% (down from 48%).
And this wasn't even a 60% nerf.
It's been over a month right now, multiple players already stated and proved since the creation of the thread that this encounter CRITS FOR 1k AND GETS DEFLECTED FOR 400 dmg, please do something about it.
I get that in pve it needed to be toned down, but there's several way this encounter can at least reach the 4/5k dmg range while on mastery for PVP.
Like, i would understand this nerf if it wasnt effected by armor pen, because then it would be 20% better when they fixed it, but i heard its already effected by armor penetration. so Why do they think its necessary to nerf the overall damage output by like 75%? its absurd. similar to what v1rus said, i dont believe that there has been a nerf this severe for an encounter yet, and this game has been out a year!
Please! perfect world team..... dont do this to shard. buff it some atleast! it is absolutely useless now
Right now, on Live, the only saving grace it has is its high damage - because otherwise, SotEA can be seen as some kind of 'Trolling' of the rest of the group by throwing Shard into the mobs, just as the rest of the team prepares their own AoEs - and then watch them nuke emptyness into oblivion because everything not control immune is bowled all over the room by Shard blowing up.
Questions for dev
1 Do you think in live server CW is a good or a bad PVP class ?
2 What is the main play that you find from most CW in PVP ? so to speak what their roles in the PVP group ?
3 Do you think the change done change anything from point 1 and 2 ?
And 4 Give us one good reason to still play a CW that in actual situation is unable to play PVP and in the same time is becoming a real hard class to lvl up and play solo unless you completly outgear the map and in same time that became an easy replacable class for dongeon ?
I hope this time answer from dev
Most of this is due to gentlemancrush making changes to the CW based on feedback from GWF/GF who obviously have ulterior motives , he buffs something , GWF/GF see that they aren't as effective or efficient against CW anymore so they come here and whine he renerfs ,its idiotic.
Now some GWF have started whining they want Takedown to be given back it's prone , who's willing to bet gentlemancrush caves in and pampers to them?
let take a fight in live server between a GF or GWF with 80% dr (yes sentinel can goes to more than 80% with inflexible). 1 if you have entrengling force it do 0 damage against control immun target). let make count on thauma way with a classic and consider the best for the CW (spell not block by all instant control encounter on GF or GWF). default ice knife, ray of enfeeblisment in tab, ice conduct, let say steal time and chill strike for damage. base damage on my character in same order 12K,6K, 4K,4K,6K. alos lvl 9 spell plague enchant
with 15% armor pen and the fact that arcane spell reduce armor 10% more (t4 feat of thauma) you get in this order.
(ice knife usable only once)
1 ice conduct: 4k * (1-0.8+0.15)*(1-0.2(tenacity))= 1.12 K
2 ray : 6K * (1-0.8+0.1+0.15+0.1)*(1-0.2 )*(1.15+1.15)= 2.8 k
3 second ray: (most of time i see that both in live and test server second ray do 0 damage): 6K * (1-0.8+0.1+0.3+0.15)*(1.45)=5.22K
4 ice knife: 12K *(1-0.8+0.3+0.15)*(1-0.2)*1.45=10.44K
5 and 6 give an extra summ of 8.7. mean your doing at all 28k dammage mean to shot a GF and GWF with 80 DR you need if he let you strike 2 full roll of spell to shot him (40K life) 30 second.. here that the best without blocking or dodging or be controled or interrupt even once + ice knife charged (practicaly 50% damage here) mean without ice knife = 18k roll
now let see in test server with same spell.
ice knife do 11k base, ray: 4K, ice conduct:3K, steal time 6K, and chill strike:4k let also say that with the actual statment assaillant will proc once per 10 second (here is best since it's the minimal time that it can proc)
same fight.
1 ice conduct: 3k * (1-0.8+0.15)*(1-0.8):0.84K
2 ray: 4K *(1-0.8+0.15+0.10)*(1-0.8)*1.15: 1.656
3 second ray.4K *(1-0.8+0.15+0.30)*(1-0.8)*1.30: 2.7k
4 ice knife 11K*(1-0.8+0.15+0.30)*(1-0.8)*1.30: 7.37 K
5 the rest: 6.7K damage and add 1 assaillant for 4 k: =17.61 k + 4 k = 21k at all. and 14K without ice knife: mean 45 second to kill without any dodge or anything nore any life back.
with new shield slotted in tab
taking same other spell just replace chill strike with ray (couting assaillant proc same once per roll)
1 ice conduct: 3k * (1-0.8+0.15)*(1-0.8):0.84K
2 ray: 4K *(1-0.8+0.15+0.10)*(1-0.8)*1.15: 1.656
3 ice knife 11K*(1-0.8+0.15+0.30)*(1-0.8)*1.15: 6.5 K
4 steal time: 6k*(1-0.8+0.15+0.30)*(1-0.8)*1.15:3.5K
total 12.5k with ice knife +4k from assaillant: 16.5k without ice knife: 10K dammage mean 1 min to kill a passive player
know let see the other side. since def haven't change from live server and test server without shield it pretty the same.
1 all GF and GWF have at least 1 feat that provide 0.1 DR reduce+ let say a terror enchant lvl 9 and same 15% Dr ignore
A wizard can have at best 30% dr. mean only the first shot will have 5% dr left rest is 100% damage* 0.8 for tenacity
with a mere 6K medium feat damage it give
first shot: 6K *(1-0.05)*(1-0.8):4.56K
rest :4.8k
daily : 12k = 9.6
total: 23.76 K (as you can see i do not count any boost dammage to consider a fight against a GF. against GWF you can easely up that by 1.25%). with a 25K or 30K PV CW; your are near or already dead if even one crit (since we have 0 deflect value)
with shield and against a player that do not strike with at will to reduce damage it give
4.56*(1-0.8):0.912k
4.8*(1-0.5):2.4k
4.8*(1-0.25):3.6k
9.6*(1-0.25):7.2k
=14k and since shield will not reup after first roll, second role also do 3.6k each mean 10.8k . mean we are dead in 2 roll of encounter.
And since our at will do less damage we canno't hope anything from there too.
PS in GF case with there 30 second up shield we will be dead before we can control them with shield down and since we don't have any control immun we are already dead before doing any spell.
With on live server we already have hard time with a ratio of 20-25 second to kill vs 15 second for other due to control immun.
now on previous server we need twice the time we needed in live server with nothing else change for control or anything else.
Even with the 50% last shield lvl we were at disavatage but not an unpassable one
Edit:
in all that" i took each time the best case for CW but practically always min case for opponent (best enchant to debuf DR etc. just immage what damage if you do not even use spellplague. we are speaking of 6-7 K damage with a whole roll for CW also with enought HP regen, CW do not even do enough damage to overcome a passive regen GF GWF that is not behind is screen) .
Also the new artefact, if it not for purpose against CW. i doN,t see what is it again. doN,t worry we trade your damage VS some control and then give a control immun to especially your control power for every one
I am not the most skilled player out there but I love to play. But there is nothing worse than playing a toon that has had its damage gutted by nerfs. Especially if those nerfs are made in part to appease another class because they don't want competition. The planned nerfs will drive me right out of the game.
I don't know how many CWs will suffer yet another module of being rag dolls in PvP. Even PvE won't make up for it this time. Picture level of frustration.
Just put it in perspective. You appear to be more willing to listen to the GWFs spoiled by over a year of OP in PvP, bugged skills (bugged to their advantage) and now prone+kessel artifact bug to one shot some classes. Those GWFs probably forgot (the new ones never knew) how it feels to struggle for life in PvP and still be of some utility. You are very responsive to gamers, who once they see they can't kill a class with 2 encounters start crying for this class nerf. You don't promote skilful play this way.
Shield buff (not this nerfed useless one, which no CW will now exchange for damaging encounter) would only make CW more hard to kill but not immortal (as some GWFs now are, and HRs will be with module 4). Strong Shield also would not mean that every CW will use it. Some still would prefer more DPS.
Why nerfing CWs single target skills by the way? They are not even used in PvE. They are mostly PvP support for already weakest class. Are you planning to make CWs PvP time even more horrible then it was module2 and module3? I guess it's possible!
And last but not least: you would do well to promote skilful play. And it just so happens that Shard requires Skill with capital S. And even much so on Tab. Skill and willingness to use it (despite long casting time and numerous bugs) should be rewarded with satisfactory damage. This would be only fair. I agree it was OP but only in PvE. Shouldn't be this weak in PvP.
Wow lol , maybe he hasn't given Takedown a prone but he did increase Takedowns stun by a second , how nice it must be....
How about some 'QoL' improvements for CW? because as of now GWF has a better ability to control than Control wizard does...
be more tanky than a tank in pvp and not even have to cast damage encounters and you can focus on controlling and not being hit - each time you are hit briartwine has a chance to proc assailing.
These changes basically means any PVP CW will have to roll for Assailing force. period.
The shield nerf was more than needed since CWs with shield will have a TON of tankiness still.
CWs are the only class ATM that can 1v1 HRs with ease. CWs will be mandatory for every premade. Period.
IMO, these changes will make CW very very strong, but pigeon hole CWs for PVP purposes.
FYI - with a broken shield (tab or non-tab since I think they do the same 25%) + 20% Tenacity you will have an unmitigated 40% DR. Thats more than I can say for almost any class.... Even the Sent GWF with 55%+ DR can get mitigated down into the 20s meaning that your CW will take as much dmg as a Sentinel GWF outside Unstoppable....
Wasn't as if an early CW could compete with a HR in terms of damage in the first place....
In another post i read , you said that you never played a cw. Then how in heavens name can you have an opinion about them that is objective and true? Well i say take Gwfs and Hr and give them zero control.Leave control to CONTROL Wizards.Just to balance things out. That means no Prones,no Stuns, no Nothing for them.
I hope you realize 20% tenacity isn't +20% dr, as stated by gmc earlier on this thread lol. From what he said and how I understood it, tenacity is similar to some of the gwf feats that increase one skill by a percentage of another, meaning whatever your dr is, it will be 20% higher with tenacity. Not 20% +20%,
And with shield CWs were able to have a fair fight versus other classes, now it's a losing fight just like it always has been, I have lost most of my fights on the preview now after they changed shield, and before they changed shield it was a pretty even fight for the most part. Just because CWs won't be the most picked on class in PvP now doesn't mean you need to batter any kind of buffs they are getting.
-Chill Strike: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Damage reduced by roughly 15%
-Conduit of Ice: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Damage reduced by roughly 17%.
-Magic Missile: Casting times have been reverted to their live state. Damage has been reduced by roughly 32%.
-Master of Flame: Fanning the Flame: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Base damage reduced by roughly 33%.
-Oppressive Force: This power has had its overall damage reduced by roughly 9%.
-Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its base impact damage reduced by roughly 33%.
-Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its explosion damage reduced by roughly 60%.
-Wizard's Wrath: This feat now grants 1/2/3% area of effect damage (down from 2/4/6%).
-Arcane Enhancement: This feat now grants 1/2/3% more Arcane damage (down from 2/4/6%).
-Blighting Power: This feat now grants 2/4/6% more cold damage (down from 3/6/9%).
Thats not even MENTIONING the nurfs done to the paragon feat trees...
And you still want to find ways to nurf the CW? Stop f**king kicking us when we are down, your two classes have only been getting better since the initial updates on preview and CW has only gotten worse
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
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get out of the cw forums. you opinions and your fake attempts at making cw seem op is not wanted here.
hahahahahAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
0 damage and 0 control, yea I think that was needed.
You do understand that CW is the only DPS class that cannot effectively stack Deflection to high values, right? I hope you know too that we don't have anything to counter control.
While most classes INCLUDING GWF get 50%+ of damage reduction with Deflection almost all the time and can avoid control whenever they want, our Shield was brutally nerfed and the control immune armory was increased.
Seriously this guy has NO CLUE...
How is it that Devs listen to his opinion?
We are getting nerfed because a GWF thinks a CW wants to hold a Node by being Tankish?
What I want is a respectable Daily that does 20k Damage like other classes so we can gain some respect.
I want a repel that will actually repel someone.
I want my Single Target Damage to be an actual threat to some rather than some random ability that may or not proc.
I want to be able to cast without getting interrupted or dodged because casting and animation take so long.
CW get little to NO Respect in PVP and it's not going to change with this nerf. We will be the free kill that everyone goes after first.
"CWs are the only class ATM that can 1v1 HRs with ease. CWs will be mandatory for every premade. Period."
HAHA. Any decent HR can kill a CW in just a few seconds on prev. Stop talking **** here pls.
The only thing I ever said needed changing is Assailing force was TOO op and Shield was too OP, I agree some damage needs to be brought back but CWs are still very strong.
You also should see Crush correcting himself saying he did it wrong.
The formula is:
Final Damage = Damage * (1-DR) * (1-Tenacity) * (1-Shield)
So a CW with ZERO DR 20% tenacity and 25% shield now:
1000 * (1-0)*(1-20%)*(1-25%) = 600 final damage.
A GF with 50% DR being attacked by a guy with 25% ARP and 20% tenacity:
1000 * (1-.25)*(1-.20) = 600 final damage.
TLDR: A CW with shield and zero DR = a GF with 50% DR.
The old method, CWs were getting a 60% DR base that could not be mitigated at all. Do you know how much DR a GF would need to equal that being attacked with 25% ARP (easy)? 75% DR... Tell me thats not broken...
You want a CW to have the equiv in PVP of 75% DR? Shield needed a tone down. BTW its not HALF as effective its only dropping your BASE DR from 60% to 40% (with 20% tenacity) and it CANT be mitigated.
Or better yet, Go, roll a CW, and see how "OP" this class is. See for yourself how "easy" it is to stay alive while dealing <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage and having <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> defence.
Crush, reverse shield nerf. You are making CWs hopeless again just to satisfy GWFs you guys have been spoiling for over a year now. Let them grow some skill!
You clearly have not been in the GWF thread at all then
The fact is though pure math doesn't always equate to what actually happens. On the preview right now with the 50% base shield resistance, I cannot 1v1 a gf/hr of the same caliber. You have to take in effect the players gear / skill aswell as the math. If a gwf with 18k pure pvp build fights a cw with 18k pure pvp build right now on preview, the fight will be fairly even. We can test this right now if you want, but your relying on pure numbers and not actual ingame tests. the only way to accuratly test the changes is to play on a cw yourself, and not make 3rd person observations. On preview right now CWs do have a fairly good upperhand but ONLY to people not as prepared as the cw. Thats how it always should be, if you are better at your class, and are better geared, then you should have the advantage. With CWs all the endgame pvp cws are at their best, and cw is a naturally harder class to play then gwf, so meaning most endgame cws are better then most endgame gwfs, in terms of skill at the game.
That being said, unless you have a cw (which you have previously stated you don't) then you shouldn't post feedback about CWs until you have gotten a hands on feel for the changes, changes which right now all CWs on the preview feel like there getting a punch in the face from all the nurfs, and you're 3rd person feedback of every little thing that we still have / have gotten back is really depressing. Assailiant procs on ALL outgoing damage, correctly stated by the devs, no matter what kind of damage it is, and even with assailiant procs, it has a cooldown, aswell as a big damage nurf, which is equal to barely 2 sure strikes from a gwf, because gwf at wills hit like a tank, while the cw counterpart, magic missile, will crit for a max damage of 500, even with arcane mastery and the most offensive gear I can get. It's just not right that you think CWs are op in any way. They never have been and in this manner they never will be.
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
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