One thing I can say is that I haven't had the temp hp on crit feat since mod 2, along with the feat to increase dmg while having temp hp. But in the new corrupted gear we see a fair amount of bonus hp being added to it to make that feat path viable again. But even so I have been thinking to change my conq to tactician as I find power is less effective than it used to be with the current mod 3 power change from base dmg to percent. All of my encounters have lost dmg even at 9.5k power while getting another 100 dmg on my at wills. I don't see a solution to the gfs damage problems being solved unless a whole new weapon set is made for different tiers that makes the shield inherently weaker(stat wise, not ac) while buffing the sword to have a higher base dmg.
And again Plate should have a higher ac as I said on the first page of this thread.
It seems very simple to me , and Ill be back in a few months to see how things went. A GF does not have enough defense to overcome thier poor offense. One or the other needs to be raised.
It seems very simple to me , and Ill be back in a few months to see how things went. A GF does not have enough defense to overcome thier poor offense. One or the other needs to be raised.
This is correct but you shouldn't say peace lemme know if you guys got the devs to do something.... at least stay active once or twice a week on the forum. I really want them to know how a guardian fighter player feels about that class instead of it getting dictated by people who don't play the class or don't understand what it means to be a shield wielding fighter in D&D to prevent it being turned into a wow tank.
Ok, i told it. Talking about pvp now, a GF should NEVER lose a duel to a similar GWF. Why? Cause the GWF can simply press shift and run away while the GF just looks.
Its basical in ANY GAME, being slow ALWAYS is balanced by huge damage, and for some reason developers NEVER can make it right. Just look at Zangief, How many SF games were needed untill he become a viable option?
Oh yes and the TOTAL REWORK of the sword master path for GF is must.
Just a small comparation
Lunging Strike: great range, almost zero cast time, MY personal damage with it on the puppets is 4500. reload is 8 sec and HITS SEVERAL TARGETS.
Flourish: no range, long cast time, MY personal damage with it on the puppets is 3800. reload is like 13 or 14 sec, hits just a single target.
I am using is just cause i invested 5 feat points in this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Ramping up the GF's DPS could cause serious balance issues in PVP. I am a GF and would love GWF damage for my GF, but I see how OP that could get in PVP. I have 47% DR, 21% deflec and 11% regen in PVP. Give me MOAR DPS and you'll have QQ threads all over. Some players already complain about a GF's chain pone rotation, so make that rotation hit harder and people will be crying.
So it is a delicate balance. Instead of just MOAR DPS give us useful party buffs, a better TAB feature and faster cast times. If we just hit things faster that would already go a long way to improving our DPS without giving us a base damage boost. Allow us to be CC immune like a GWF.
As for the TAB-Mark issue. One idea for TAB is to make it like the CWs, allowing us to rotate powers in there, but in our case we have two options; Mark or an immunity feature. Mark, as it is, has value in controlling pulls if you have a weak party that cannot survive YOLO pulls. The GF can mark an elite one by one and make for smooth clears (Clearing the room of Golems in FH is a prime example of where a GF can TAB-mark them out in twos to better manage the fight). Mark also helps us with our own single-target DPS in PVP, so I wouldn't like to see Mark go altogether. Maybe turn Into the Fray into something like Unstoppable for a GF, but with party benefits to boost utility. We become CC-immune and have increased damage resistance & run speed, while also boosting party defence, AP gain and movement.
As for he Lunging Strike - Flourish comparison; a Swordmaster can also get Lunging Strike, so that isn't an accurate comparison. Flourish needs to be compared to Frontline Surge.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
1 - Why can't we run while blocking? Infantry in the past could run in formation with shields raised. It isn't as if we run fast anyway, so just allow us to still move as fast as we do with shield raised or not.
2 - Shield needs to be turned into a toggle. Press Shift once and shield stays up, press it again and it goes down.
3 - Shield meter. Shield needs to be tied to a stamina bar. This will be referred to as ''Fatigue'' in the GF's case. Instead of our shield being broken by damage it is now reduced by Fatigue. Keep the shift toggle on too long and your shield will wear away. This means that while we get a better, more durable shield, we still need to manage it so it doesn't become an OP PVP feature.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
I find they are quite weak and extremely squishy with shield down. Not complaining I love owning them in pvp but yeah seems like either people aren't using them correctly or they are just too weak.
when our shield meter breaks we suffer a ton of extra damage when our shield breaks unless we go the defender path. but no its the fact we cannot improve our dr due to the fact that defense becomes almost laughable after 3.5k it terms of what we get from it. Why gives us so much defense yet it barely gives us anything.
So either fix gear stats to not have as much defense or re work defense for the gf.
I find they are quite weak and extremely squishy with shield down. Not complaining I love owning them in pvp but yeah seems like either people aren't using them correctly or they are just too weak.
They are far from weak, but it takes skill to be good at it. If you read through this thread one can clearly see that the majority of Guardian fighters don't know what they are actually doing/talking about when making silly suggestions, i.e. "Make block a toggle"... If blocking really was a toggle, it could not be used at-will anymore rendering it useless.
when our shield meter breaks we suffer a ton of extra damage when our shield breaks unless we go the defender path. but no its the fact we cannot improve our dr due to the fact that defense becomes almost laughable after 3.5k it terms of what we get from it. Why gives us so much defense yet it barely gives us anything.
So either fix gear stats to not have as much defense or re work defense for the gf.
We must be playing different games, my GF has a dr of 70%. 25% deflect 21% crit 33.5% arpen. With mediocre items. I can crit 25-40k and heal myself for 15-60k and my hp is roughly 30k+. While my AP gain is +30-60%. Especially in 1on1 situations my GF is like a wrecking ball.
You are right we are playing different gameplay styles yours is an activated dmg boost which is a double edge sword while mine fore goes that and slots another encounter to deal dmg and we don't use the same feat paths either plus with healing suppression i highly doubt you can get that 60k heal in an actual pvp fight from fighters recovery.
You are right we are playing different gameplay styles yours is an activated dmg boost which is a double edge sword while mine fore goes that and slots another encounter to deal dmg and we don't use the same feat paths either plus with healing suppression i highly doubt you can get that 60k heal in an actual pvp fight from fighters recovery.
7.5-30k sealheals in pvp you are right. Considered i have 30k hp... it is still pretty good x)
Your play style is probably the top tier of the pvp builds out there. But I don't focus purely on pvp I want to be able to solo lots of mobs as well while not relying on fighters recovery to save myself as I have a fair amount of lifesteal and regen(1k each). also i have almost 10k power via the conq path.
Your play style is probably the top tier of the pvp builds out there. But I don't focus purely on pvp I want to be able to solo lots of mobs as well while not relying on fighters recovery to save myself as I have a fair amount of lifesteal and regen(1k each). also i have almost 10k power via the conq path.
No, no i just figured out a build on my own i am an intelligent scrub according to certain friends - -, still using rank 7's and t1 along with lesser weap/arm enchantments, but i'm getting there.
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It's just strange, that i have no issues with playing as a GF, while others obviously do. Maybe certain things are true, lack of attack range i.e. or Knight's challenge bugging out, just like other skills have done in the past but other than that i could tank/dps/support instead of burst just as good.
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I did not mean to offend you with my former post, btw.
no its fine a good competitive argument is always welcomed. I don't suffer issues except for the fact I was not using tenacity gear with this type of build until recently, the lack of dr does make it easy for me to get overwhelmed in a cc chain but when it requires 2 cws using both full rotations to kill me I feel no frustration from it. Also other classes stack so much armor pen defense is only viable when it gets above 40% dr which I am with 47%.
no its fine a good competitive argument is always welcomed. I don't suffer issues except for the fact I was not using tenacity gear with this type of build until recently, the lack of dr does make it easy for me to get overwhelmed in a cc chain but when it requires 2 cws using both full rotations to kill me I feel no frustration from it. Also other classes stack so much armor pen defense is only viable when it gets above 40% dr which I am with 47%.
Get a set bonus for + guard meter and use shield talent rank 3. It adds quite a chunk of guard meter which is technically hp. Btw if you KC someone, and you block their attacks afterwards you will receive 2x AP from guarding. This combined with the other AP gain - feats. creates funny moments, sometimes.
atm I have half my black ice gear already :P. I can see that as a nice build I will try somethings with that on preview when i get myself a respec token. Fyi I actually manage double even triple kills with my current spec yet it wont count till next weeks patch ><.
Main-Lothor Syralth Guardian Fighter
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zhaofuoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 129Bounty Hunter
edited May 2014
We must be playing different games, my GF has a dr of 70%. 25% deflect 21% crit 33.5% arpen. With mediocre items. I can crit 25-40k and heal myself for 15-60k and my hp is roughly 30k+. While my AP gain is +30-60%. Especially in 1on1 situations my GF is like a wrecking ball.
Would you mind telling me how you manage to reach 70% DR i'm curious to know how much defense you have to reach that kind of DR
They are far from weak, but it takes skill to be good at it. If you read through this thread one can clearly see that the majority of Guardian fighters don't know what they are actually doing/talking about when making silly suggestions, i.e. "Make block a toggle"... If blocking really was a toggle, it could not be used at-will anymore rendering it useless.
Because a DC going into Divine mode and back - a TOGGLE class feature - cannot do so when he wants to? I have a DC, therefore block as a toggle will not be a problem and will not affect at-wills because I play a class that can already do that. DC's can move seamlessly from divine mode to regular mod. I can cast two encounters within seconds of each other with a toggle in between. No reason why a GF couldn't raise or lower guard just as easily. In fact, the DC toggle is much faster than the time it takes a GF to raise guard as well, so that is another potential improvement.
The DC, HR and CW have certain mechanics that could be transplanted to any other class in order to boost its utility.
Also, no need to deride someone with ''they don't know what they are talking about'' comments or inferring ''L2P'' if you don't agree.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
1. When a GF is blocking, he creates a cone area behind him, where any allies standing in said area benefits from substantially increased damage and CC resistance.
THIS OMG
I always wondered why blocking couldn't only protect yourself but other teammates aswell. Almost like the shield deflects damage away like a protector OMG? O:
Also as a GF i hate the tab skill, even with enchanced mark now it doesn't really help that much. I would rather see something similar to gwf unstoppable, as in, while the GF takes damage or blocks we can unleash something just like gwf but maybe an aoe ring that buffs dps and dmg resistance for all party members inside the said area?
Because a DC going into Divine mode and back - a TOGGLE class feature - cannot do so when he wants to? I have a DC, therefore block as a toggle will not be a problem and will not affect at-wills because I play a class that can already do that. DC's can move seamlessly from divine mode to regular mod. I can cast two encounters within seconds of each other with a toggle in between. No reason why a GF couldn't raise or lower guard just as easily. In fact, the DC toggle is much faster than the time it takes a GF to raise guard as well, so that is another potential improvement.
The DC, HR and CW have certain mechanics that could be transplanted to any other class in order to boost its utility.
Also, no need to deride someone with ''they don't know what they are talking about'' comments or inferring ''L2P'' if you don't agree.
You are making things up now. I never said learn to play to anybody. I would not want to play a GF with a toggle instead of just holding down a key. This is a melee class without dodges, not a ranged caster.
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And yet people keep talking about "utility". The GF has enough of that sh...tuff already. We really do not need anymore utility especially party buffs, trust me.
"So what is going to be done about guardian fighters?"
As long the GF community thinks that the GF problem is that we don't have enough "aggro" or the devs think that our poblem is that we don't get heals while blocking (!) ,the answer is .....NOTHING.
Major part of the Gf community are sub 60s GFs or T1 guildie type of Gfs.practically they do not tested themselves in T2/VT/Mc/CN and in competitive pvp.
I facepalm my self every time i read in the forums "AS GFs we are fine if not OP in pvp".i nearly feel the need at that time to unistall or format windows.In leaderboard Gfs do not exist well over the 6th page.One time i counted the first 50 Gfs.Were as deep as into 53page.53 pages to find 50 Gfs.You can find 50 GWfs in 7-8 pages,Trs in 7-9 etc...This is how underperforming we are.And the first Gfs are rank9 guys who are in pages with rank6s Tr/Hrs....
major part of GF community comes to NW from other MMos and have in mind the stereotype of a tank.problem is in NW you cannot perform as a pure tank cause of inherent GF design and dungeon design.It is too repetitive to say why again.
yet this part of GF comunity spreads thier stereotype into general NW community causing problems.And i explain:
Since other players think that Gfs are "tanks" and since Gfs sometimes label themselves as such....Gfs are asked to "tank" the mobs in boss fights or/and in dungeons.
This in T1 requires a very skilled GF.In T2?Nearly impossible.By whatever build or rotations etc no 10-11 gs Gf can tank the adds in Pk in final boss fight.yet many players will ask the Gfs to do that.Good luck.Gfs fail ,get sad and frustrated and eventually leave the game.
i say PK cause is a common dung to farm for mid equipped players and one or not the most easy T2.
Gfs need boosts in every aspect of their design:DPS ,survivability.Since NW is an action MMO designed around maximum damage output ,if Gfs do not take a dps increase are condemened to die as a class.
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zhaofuoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 129Bounty Hunter
edited May 2014
Guardian Fighters in PvP - I don't believe they are "nearly useless in PvP" at all. They can be VERY hard to kill and can hold a point for LONG periods of time by themselves.
I nearly cried when i saw a dev mentioned that we can hold a node for a VERY LONG period of time.
I would assume he is referring to a GWF/HR or a TR lol but not a GF and by Himself? i highly doubt it. this clearly tell how inexperience devs are when it comes to their games
I nearly cried when i saw a dev mentioned that we can hold a node for a VERY LONG period of time.
I would assume he is referring to a GWF/HR or a TR lol but not a GF and by Himself? i highly doubt it. this clearly tell how inexperience devs are when it comes to their games
Provide a link to the thread, if it's possible. (***nevermind, i found it.)
I nearly cried when i saw a dev mentioned that we can hold a node for a VERY LONG period of time.
I would assume he is referring to a GWF/HR or a TR lol but not a GF and by Himself? i highly doubt it. this clearly tell how inexperience devs are when it comes to their games
ya they exist in a kind of speculative narrative, have very little feel for the actual game, and are often bewildered at player reactions to changes they make that to them seem well-calculated and necessary but to the players are obviously short sighted and poorly considered. Look at the removal of the ability to 1v1 after matches. It fixes a bug in which it was possible for someone to get confused and not be able to figure out how to leave the arena maps. In fixing that "bug" they removed a MAJOR element of the pvp experience while correcting what was truly a non-issue. Like fix a non-issue bug and remove a substantial amount of the pvp experience or just leave that bug alone and fix one of the very many well known and game-breaking exploits? The answer for that after people express their discontent is the same as the answer concerning issues that need fixed with GF, "uhhh that isnt a priority right now, we might get to it at some later point though". In other words shut up and sit down because they are not serious about fixing any of that and are more concerned with working their own perceived kinks out of the overcomplicated speculative narrative that is their view of the state of the game and its direction. Not to be too hard on the devs, they are creative, they work really hard, and they really care about the game, just all that effort and creativity is applied in what most long term players would agree is an unproductive direction.
You are making things up now. I never said learn to play to anybody. I would not want to play a GF with a toggle instead of just holding down a key. This is a melee class without dodges, not a ranged caster.
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And yet people keep talking about "utility". The GF has enough of that sh...tuff already. We really do not need anymore utility especially party buffs, trust me.
As the GF has no dodge or sprint then I fully believe our one means of avoiding damage should be activated a lot faster, and borrowing from the DC can help. It is just an idea to improve the mechanics of the class as it is a slow and cumbersome class in what is a very fast game. Many of the GFs skills and powers will see you get proned, stunned or hit before you can activate them, and the shield mechanic is one of the worst offenders. The best is when the sluggish shield mechanic allows for chain stunning/proning.
In my opinion a toggle will help ''streamline'' the GF. A toggle will also allow the GF to seamlessly go from encounter power to full damage mitigation, instead of the current ''wait 50 years for the Enforced Threat animation, then wait another millenia for your shield to come up'', all the while just asking to be stunned/proned or clobbered for a significant chunk of your life. An overall animation buff on all powers will help as well. Anvil of Doom and Griffon's become viable powers because of their speed buff. The game is just too fast and adds too numerous for the GF to be 100% faithful to a heavily armed melee fighter. GFs need to do things faster and more effortlessly.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
So the fact that my "what IS going to be done thread" is getting more attention than the "suggestion thread" has lead me to the following conclusion:
The developers HAVE to take a chance on boosting the GF, even at the risk of making them overpowered.
It makes sense they don't want to make the same mistake they made with GWFs, but leaving the class underpowered is no better than leaving the class overpowered.
GFs are an almost extinct species.
The fact of the matter is, regardless of whether or not the GF is numerically and mathematically ok, this is still a game, and games need to be attractive and fun. Playing a GF is simply not as fun as playing the other classes, to anyone.
That said, mathematics needs to be tempered with experience, as there are variables that can only be seen in the actual game.
I've been playing a CW for a while now, and I've actually seen how powerful they are in PvE. The difference is ASTONISHING, and what shocked me the most was the utility that CWs brought to the table as well. I didn't need firepower to be useful. I could debuff and slow the opponents while everyone else destroyed them, and our collective efforts made someone's ability to absorb damage and kite often unnecessary.
There are different ways of achieving survivability in dungeons. You can absorb damage, or you can control your enemies. Both are equally valid, but I'm starting to believe the CWs' ability to control is superior to the GF's ability to absorb damage. They basically achieve the same thing except the CW can deliver the damage while doing their job, while a GF cannot. At best they are equal. That leaves GFs having noticeably better survivability, and CWs having VASTLY superior firepower.
This isn't fair. A CW's defensive rating can comfortably sit between 4-6k while a GF's can be from 6-9k. And that accurately reflects their performance in-game. But because CWs' powers give so much to offense in ADDITION to their statistics, a CW's firepower is actually 2-3 times that of a GF!
GFs are 50% tougher to kill, but CWs are FAR more than 50% stronger DPS wise. And they have similar utility. That's my summary.
That's just those two classes. There isn't enough time to compare them to everyone else.
There ARE elite GFs who can make this situation work. But this isn't about a bunch of stubborn old coots (like AntMonster, no offense). This is about the general gaming population. And the fact is, when the average gaming population moves from lower tiers to upper tiers, that's when GFs feel the most pain.
And let me tell you something, people do take it personally. This game has the same emotional impact as playing a sport to a lot of people. Finding out that quarterbacks are useless when that was your favorite team role does hurt. This is supposed to just be a game, but people are spending their REAL money on it and their feelings ARE being hurt.
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Like I said, mathematically the GF might not be that bad. I'm not stupid. I know about combat advantage, and the GF marks, and how the leaderboard doesn't show time that nodes were held or what percentage of damage the GF absorbed in the fight (which by the way would be a great idea if you wanna show how useful GFs actually are). And I don't want to get into a lengthy discussion about each of those. But what I HAVE seen is GFs get kicked FOR FUN because the party knows they can do the dungeon without them.
And I came to this startling conclusion, which actually made me really open my eyes to how bad things are right now:
Most advanced and experienced teams avoid the automatic queue system and use LFG chat channels so they can avoid having a GF in their party, because the developers tried to fix part of the problem by making GFs obligatory in the queue system.
That's right, in trying to help GFs with the queue system, they ruined THE QUEUE SYSTEM for higher level players.
the delay to get the shield up is probably the biggest gripe I have with the class. The second is that any class(this refers to hrs, trs, and gwfs) can get high hp and yet retain most of their dmg, regen becomes moot with less hp.
I'm talking about both PvE and PvP. You're talking about PvP specifically. I love using Griffon's Wrath to pick out stragglers and I can engage most HRs, CWs, DCs, and even GWFs around my gear score with little difficulty, with both of us at full health. I have an unusual set up where I put a point into each of the temporary hit point abilities, just one point, to increase the probability of gaining the damage buff (I feel the remaining points are wasted). This creates great synergy with the bloodcrystal raven. Griffon's wrath is harder to use than Frontline and almost no one uses it. That's why I love it. ^^.
I completely agree that people should take all builds with a grain of salt, and make modifications according to their own needs. I don't even advocate using conqueror specifically. But enough of me defending my honor. I think GFs are one of the deadliest PvP classes 1v1, aside from perma-stealth TRs and very high level GWFs.
That's actually part of the problem. It's in PVE where GFs are suffering the most, as a general consensus. And we have to come up with ways to help the GF in that field without making them too powerful in PvP. You basically illustrated my point.
So tell me. Since you think GFs are so powerful in PvP (a sentiment I agree with), what changes would you suggest to make them stronger in PvE without making yourself overpowered in PvP?
And of course, anyone is welcome to disagree with that sentiment, that GFs are fine in PvP. It's quite possible one has to be sacrificed for the other, which might be considered unjust compared to the other classes.
I highly doubt your 15% extra damage while having temp HP every 50 seconds is killing GWFS? A GWF your GS will easily out heal and out dps you! Think about it first of all I have 31k HP so feated 5 points I get 5% my max hp which is 1550 hp when crit every 50 seconds? I mean really? CW dots tick for more then that!!!!
Then add ok so my Anvil of Doom does 7k+ ( lets say 7800k ) 15% of 7800 damage = 8970 So an extra 1170 damage now on a 12 second cd. GWF can hit for 10k a hit. Our feats and damage buffs are so ridiculously low it hardly makes any difference. You need to waste 6 points to get 15% damage when crit or healed by another play on a 50 sec cd. I don't know just seems moot!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Comments
And again Plate should have a higher ac as I said on the first page of this thread.
Plate =/= Mail in terms of ac.
This is correct but you shouldn't say peace lemme know if you guys got the devs to do something.... at least stay active once or twice a week on the forum. I really want them to know how a guardian fighter player feels about that class instead of it getting dictated by people who don't play the class or don't understand what it means to be a shield wielding fighter in D&D to prevent it being turned into a wow tank.
Ramping up the GF's DPS could cause serious balance issues in PVP. I am a GF and would love GWF damage for my GF, but I see how OP that could get in PVP. I have 47% DR, 21% deflec and 11% regen in PVP. Give me MOAR DPS and you'll have QQ threads all over. Some players already complain about a GF's chain pone rotation, so make that rotation hit harder and people will be crying.
So it is a delicate balance. Instead of just MOAR DPS give us useful party buffs, a better TAB feature and faster cast times. If we just hit things faster that would already go a long way to improving our DPS without giving us a base damage boost. Allow us to be CC immune like a GWF.
As for the TAB-Mark issue. One idea for TAB is to make it like the CWs, allowing us to rotate powers in there, but in our case we have two options; Mark or an immunity feature. Mark, as it is, has value in controlling pulls if you have a weak party that cannot survive YOLO pulls. The GF can mark an elite one by one and make for smooth clears (Clearing the room of Golems in FH is a prime example of where a GF can TAB-mark them out in twos to better manage the fight). Mark also helps us with our own single-target DPS in PVP, so I wouldn't like to see Mark go altogether. Maybe turn Into the Fray into something like Unstoppable for a GF, but with party benefits to boost utility. We become CC-immune and have increased damage resistance & run speed, while also boosting party defence, AP gain and movement.
As for he Lunging Strike - Flourish comparison; a Swordmaster can also get Lunging Strike, so that isn't an accurate comparison. Flourish needs to be compared to Frontline Surge.
1 - Why can't we run while blocking? Infantry in the past could run in formation with shields raised. It isn't as if we run fast anyway, so just allow us to still move as fast as we do with shield raised or not.
2 - Shield needs to be turned into a toggle. Press Shift once and shield stays up, press it again and it goes down.
3 - Shield meter. Shield needs to be tied to a stamina bar. This will be referred to as ''Fatigue'' in the GF's case. Instead of our shield being broken by damage it is now reduced by Fatigue. Keep the shift toggle on too long and your shield will wear away. This means that while we get a better, more durable shield, we still need to manage it so it doesn't become an OP PVP feature.
So either fix gear stats to not have as much defense or re work defense for the gf.
They are far from weak, but it takes skill to be good at it. If you read through this thread one can clearly see that the majority of Guardian fighters don't know what they are actually doing/talking about when making silly suggestions, i.e. "Make block a toggle"... If blocking really was a toggle, it could not be used at-will anymore rendering it useless.
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We must be playing different games, my GF has a dr of 70%. 25% deflect 21% crit 33.5% arpen. With mediocre items. I can crit 25-40k and heal myself for 15-60k and my hp is roughly 30k+. While my AP gain is +30-60%. Especially in 1on1 situations my GF is like a wrecking ball.
7.5-30k sealheals in pvp you are right. Considered i have 30k hp... it is still pretty good x)
No, no i just figured out a build on my own i am an intelligent scrub according to certain friends - -, still using rank 7's and t1 along with lesser weap/arm enchantments, but i'm getting there.
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It's just strange, that i have no issues with playing as a GF, while others obviously do. Maybe certain things are true, lack of attack range i.e. or Knight's challenge bugging out, just like other skills have done in the past but other than that i could tank/dps/support instead of burst just as good.
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I did not mean to offend you with my former post, btw.
Get a set bonus for + guard meter and use shield talent rank 3. It adds quite a chunk of guard meter which is technically hp. Btw if you KC someone, and you block their attacks afterwards you will receive 2x AP from guarding. This combined with the other AP gain - feats. creates funny moments, sometimes.
Would you mind telling me how you manage to reach 70% DR i'm curious to know how much defense you have to reach that kind of DR
~70% in pvp, due to 20% from tenacity.
Because a DC going into Divine mode and back - a TOGGLE class feature - cannot do so when he wants to? I have a DC, therefore block as a toggle will not be a problem and will not affect at-wills because I play a class that can already do that. DC's can move seamlessly from divine mode to regular mod. I can cast two encounters within seconds of each other with a toggle in between. No reason why a GF couldn't raise or lower guard just as easily. In fact, the DC toggle is much faster than the time it takes a GF to raise guard as well, so that is another potential improvement.
The DC, HR and CW have certain mechanics that could be transplanted to any other class in order to boost its utility.
Also, no need to deride someone with ''they don't know what they are talking about'' comments or inferring ''L2P'' if you don't agree.
THIS OMG
I always wondered why blocking couldn't only protect yourself but other teammates aswell. Almost like the shield deflects damage away like a protector OMG? O:
Also as a GF i hate the tab skill, even with enchanced mark now it doesn't really help that much. I would rather see something similar to gwf unstoppable, as in, while the GF takes damage or blocks we can unleash something just like gwf but maybe an aoe ring that buffs dps and dmg resistance for all party members inside the said area?
You are making things up now. I never said learn to play to anybody. I would not want to play a GF with a toggle instead of just holding down a key. This is a melee class without dodges, not a ranged caster.
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And yet people keep talking about "utility". The GF has enough of that sh...tuff already. We really do not need anymore utility especially party buffs, trust me.
As long the GF community thinks that the GF problem is that we don't have enough "aggro" or the devs think that our poblem is that we don't get heals while blocking (!) ,the answer is .....NOTHING.
Major part of the Gf community are sub 60s GFs or T1 guildie type of Gfs.practically they do not tested themselves in T2/VT/Mc/CN and in competitive pvp.
I facepalm my self every time i read in the forums "AS GFs we are fine if not OP in pvp".i nearly feel the need at that time to unistall or format windows.In leaderboard Gfs do not exist well over the 6th page.One time i counted the first 50 Gfs.Were as deep as into 53page.53 pages to find 50 Gfs.You can find 50 GWfs in 7-8 pages,Trs in 7-9 etc...This is how underperforming we are.And the first Gfs are rank9 guys who are in pages with rank6s Tr/Hrs....
major part of GF community comes to NW from other MMos and have in mind the stereotype of a tank.problem is in NW you cannot perform as a pure tank cause of inherent GF design and dungeon design.It is too repetitive to say why again.
yet this part of GF comunity spreads thier stereotype into general NW community causing problems.And i explain:
Since other players think that Gfs are "tanks" and since Gfs sometimes label themselves as such....Gfs are asked to "tank" the mobs in boss fights or/and in dungeons.
This in T1 requires a very skilled GF.In T2?Nearly impossible.By whatever build or rotations etc no 10-11 gs Gf can tank the adds in Pk in final boss fight.yet many players will ask the Gfs to do that.Good luck.Gfs fail ,get sad and frustrated and eventually leave the game.
i say PK cause is a common dung to farm for mid equipped players and one or not the most easy T2.
Gfs need boosts in every aspect of their design:DPS ,survivability.Since NW is an action MMO designed around maximum damage output ,if Gfs do not take a dps increase are condemened to die as a class.
I nearly cried when i saw a dev mentioned that we can hold a node for a VERY LONG period of time.
I would assume he is referring to a GWF/HR or a TR lol but not a GF and by Himself? i highly doubt it. this clearly tell how inexperience devs are when it comes to their games
Provide a link to the thread, if it's possible. (***nevermind, i found it.)
ya they exist in a kind of speculative narrative, have very little feel for the actual game, and are often bewildered at player reactions to changes they make that to them seem well-calculated and necessary but to the players are obviously short sighted and poorly considered. Look at the removal of the ability to 1v1 after matches. It fixes a bug in which it was possible for someone to get confused and not be able to figure out how to leave the arena maps. In fixing that "bug" they removed a MAJOR element of the pvp experience while correcting what was truly a non-issue. Like fix a non-issue bug and remove a substantial amount of the pvp experience or just leave that bug alone and fix one of the very many well known and game-breaking exploits? The answer for that after people express their discontent is the same as the answer concerning issues that need fixed with GF, "uhhh that isnt a priority right now, we might get to it at some later point though". In other words shut up and sit down because they are not serious about fixing any of that and are more concerned with working their own perceived kinks out of the overcomplicated speculative narrative that is their view of the state of the game and its direction. Not to be too hard on the devs, they are creative, they work really hard, and they really care about the game, just all that effort and creativity is applied in what most long term players would agree is an unproductive direction.
Jugger Conq GF
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As the GF has no dodge or sprint then I fully believe our one means of avoiding damage should be activated a lot faster, and borrowing from the DC can help. It is just an idea to improve the mechanics of the class as it is a slow and cumbersome class in what is a very fast game. Many of the GFs skills and powers will see you get proned, stunned or hit before you can activate them, and the shield mechanic is one of the worst offenders. The best is when the sluggish shield mechanic allows for chain stunning/proning.
In my opinion a toggle will help ''streamline'' the GF. A toggle will also allow the GF to seamlessly go from encounter power to full damage mitigation, instead of the current ''wait 50 years for the Enforced Threat animation, then wait another millenia for your shield to come up'', all the while just asking to be stunned/proned or clobbered for a significant chunk of your life. An overall animation buff on all powers will help as well. Anvil of Doom and Griffon's become viable powers because of their speed buff. The game is just too fast and adds too numerous for the GF to be 100% faithful to a heavily armed melee fighter. GFs need to do things faster and more effortlessly.
''wait 50 years for the Enforced Threat animation, then wait another millenia for your shield to come up'',
+1.Couldn't say it better
The developers HAVE to take a chance on boosting the GF, even at the risk of making them overpowered.
It makes sense they don't want to make the same mistake they made with GWFs, but leaving the class underpowered is no better than leaving the class overpowered.
GFs are an almost extinct species.
The fact of the matter is, regardless of whether or not the GF is numerically and mathematically ok, this is still a game, and games need to be attractive and fun. Playing a GF is simply not as fun as playing the other classes, to anyone.
That said, mathematics needs to be tempered with experience, as there are variables that can only be seen in the actual game.
I've been playing a CW for a while now, and I've actually seen how powerful they are in PvE. The difference is ASTONISHING, and what shocked me the most was the utility that CWs brought to the table as well. I didn't need firepower to be useful. I could debuff and slow the opponents while everyone else destroyed them, and our collective efforts made someone's ability to absorb damage and kite often unnecessary.
There are different ways of achieving survivability in dungeons. You can absorb damage, or you can control your enemies. Both are equally valid, but I'm starting to believe the CWs' ability to control is superior to the GF's ability to absorb damage. They basically achieve the same thing except the CW can deliver the damage while doing their job, while a GF cannot. At best they are equal. That leaves GFs having noticeably better survivability, and CWs having VASTLY superior firepower.
This isn't fair. A CW's defensive rating can comfortably sit between 4-6k while a GF's can be from 6-9k. And that accurately reflects their performance in-game. But because CWs' powers give so much to offense in ADDITION to their statistics, a CW's firepower is actually 2-3 times that of a GF!
GFs are 50% tougher to kill, but CWs are FAR more than 50% stronger DPS wise. And they have similar utility. That's my summary.
That's just those two classes. There isn't enough time to compare them to everyone else.
There ARE elite GFs who can make this situation work. But this isn't about a bunch of stubborn old coots (like AntMonster, no offense). This is about the general gaming population. And the fact is, when the average gaming population moves from lower tiers to upper tiers, that's when GFs feel the most pain.
And let me tell you something, people do take it personally. This game has the same emotional impact as playing a sport to a lot of people. Finding out that quarterbacks are useless when that was your favorite team role does hurt. This is supposed to just be a game, but people are spending their REAL money on it and their feelings ARE being hurt.
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Like I said, mathematically the GF might not be that bad. I'm not stupid. I know about combat advantage, and the GF marks, and how the leaderboard doesn't show time that nodes were held or what percentage of damage the GF absorbed in the fight (which by the way would be a great idea if you wanna show how useful GFs actually are). And I don't want to get into a lengthy discussion about each of those. But what I HAVE seen is GFs get kicked FOR FUN because the party knows they can do the dungeon without them.
And I came to this startling conclusion, which actually made me really open my eyes to how bad things are right now:
Most advanced and experienced teams avoid the automatic queue system and use LFG chat channels so they can avoid having a GF in their party, because the developers tried to fix part of the problem by making GFs obligatory in the queue system.
That's right, in trying to help GFs with the queue system, they ruined THE QUEUE SYSTEM for higher level players.
Do something... fast.
I highly doubt your 15% extra damage while having temp HP every 50 seconds is killing GWFS? A GWF your GS will easily out heal and out dps you! Think about it first of all I have 31k HP so feated 5 points I get 5% my max hp which is 1550 hp when crit every 50 seconds? I mean really? CW dots tick for more then that!!!!
Then add ok so my Anvil of Doom does 7k+ ( lets say 7800k ) 15% of 7800 damage = 8970 So an extra 1170 damage now on a 12 second cd. GWF can hit for 10k a hit. Our feats and damage buffs are so ridiculously low it hardly makes any difference. You need to waste 6 points to get 15% damage when crit or healed by another play on a 50 sec cd. I don't know just seems moot!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!