The thing is GWF will be well short of where is has been...killing both SOS and deep gash in one hit is bad enough ... Some ninja nerds throw in also.. The class will be a shadow of what it has been.. The buffs are no where near enough... Without student of the sword the GWF will bring nothing to a party anymore.. This is the worst of the nerfs
The worst thing though with the reworking of power and no nerfs to cw.. Cw are getting a 20-30% damage increase.. It's crazy to think this is about to happen
Module 3 = LF4M CW
Every other class but the CW will be dead in pve
yeah i noticed this to a lot of ppl do not understand how much dps improvments cw will get with new power if 6-7k power cw and use eye of the storm and ty 100% crti chance it give cw will do some 30- 40% damage more then before
i still do not get if deep gash was broken op how is then eye of storm is not what else class have class skill which gives 100% crtic chance with allmost 100% up time
crtic damge is bugged on gwf for example when i fully buff up ibs it do some 14-15k damage but its crtics are some 27-29k and my gwf have 145% crtic damage
crtic damge is bugged on gwf for example when i fully buff up ibs it do some 14-15k damage but its crtics are some 27-29k and my gwf have 145% crtic damage
I already reported this; is the funniest part of it. all these boosts, including the destroyer porpose , disregard their critical severity. critical severity is only working toward the base damage, this hypothetical "40%" that is added to critical damage already calculated ... even as a modifier on the base damage, and not a debuff.
so I said the first and only significant buff that gwf received so far has been rentless battle fury.
I must have looked crazy with this sudden change of mood; but is that yesterday I had the sadistic pleasure of attending the event with the devs. was there. multiple cw destroying everything safely in a few moments and the poor gwf getting do nothing in the meantime ... off the rogue itself, pity, exposed to all the dangers (why only melee attacks are dangerous I do not know) and causing a ridiculous damage.
Will become powerful cw for pvp worth more than make all other classes useful for pve? say that bleed represented a much smaller fraction of damage is something understandable by distancing the real game, but it is impossible not to notice how the changes are insignificant against the background witnessed with an real gameplay.
ps:I never went back to spend the 40k with a critical ibs (normal number for the shard, vs 5, and control). the executioner style in general is not working anymore.
then we have the following phenomena.
buffs or are unsatisfactory for the fast gameplay, or simply is not working.
the gwf is less resistant.
low aoe.
loss of dynamic/ cancelation(why should I play with gwf now?)
no utility.
This is not a matter of fanatism with the class, is this injustice that irritates.
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zardoz007Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited April 2014
The changes to GWF are shocking. Shockingly bad.
In module 2 a GWF could at least play Instigator and Sentinel and still be useful in PvE compared to the Destroyer build. Now all PvE GWFs must be destroyer. And they will be a mear shadoe of there former selves. This would not be a bad thing if CW was also getting knowced down with them but they are not. GWf used to be the only class that could be a valuable member of the group like the CW. Now we will have pure teams of W;s again no other class will have a spot.
The role a GWF needs to be in the group is top damage dealt. They have no utility now they cannot lower target defenses with student of the sword they bring no additional damage to the group. All there damage is there own. And this damage will most likely be less than any damage a CW does who also has massive control and debuffs.
It saddens me that I must become an elitist and refuse to allow any non-destroyer GWF into a PvE team. If I even ever allow them in my groups at all. I liked playing GWF with my CW friends in module 2. But now with this nerf I will be going back to my CW main and me and my CW team will not allow any class other than maybe a DC into our groups.
Another ninja nerf, on the crits this time...
Gwf does zero damage when not unstoppable. Even in pve. Keeps getting smashed back, sent into the air, glued, stunned, proned, slowed and so on. Any mechanism of any for will work against him. Only once Unstoppable triggers, does the gwf start to actually deliver damage himself.
Which damage exactly? Base damage of any of its atwill-encounter-daily is negligible. Low weapon damage (2h teaspoon), target caps. Deep gash being going to trash bin, there remains only the crits.
Delivering crits during Unstoppable time: this is the core of gwf damage. And this is where the devs have sneaked in their hidden, unmentionned ninja nerfs. The crits don't, the Unstoppable won't.
Capped crits during a reduced Unstoppable time: this is mod3
just to give a preliminary idea. I do not know if fear is to make the destroyer has a good critical rate + high strength and still runs like a bullet with the Bravery, then do the following: let this bonus destroyer porpose conditioning the use of Steadfast Determination, with precondition for a legitimate bonus or activation of unstoppable to receive the bonus (or both since it will have a blocked by a bad feat).
Let me ask again, addressed to the devs (gentlemancrush):
Why do you intend to limit the GWFs' offensive and defensive capabilities by this extend? What is the goal or the big picture behind it? What role do you want the GWF to take on?
Please, enlighten us. I'm highly disappointed by your communication, the - hopefully unintended - ninja nerfs to unstoppable/crit just top this off.
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Let me ask again, addressed to the devs (gentlemancrush):
Why do you intend to limit the GWFs' offensive and defensive capabilities by this extend? What is the goal or the big picture behind it? What role do you want the GWF to take on?
Please, enlighten us. I'm highly disappointed by your communication, the - hopefully unintended - ninja nerfs to unstoppable/crit just top this off.
I don't know, maybe the devs are trying to bring gwf on par with other classes. I suppose they have stats on pvp matches and have seen gwfs dominate the battlefield. just my 2p
Let me ask again, addressed to the devs (gentlemancrush):
Why do you intend to limit the GWFs' offensive and defensive capabilities by this extend? What is the goal or the big picture behind it? What role do you want the GWF to take on?
Please, enlighten us. I'm highly disappointed by your communication, the - hopefully unintended - ninja nerfs to unstoppable/crit just top this off.
i wanna see an official answer on this too.
right now their buffs/ninja nerfs are going to nowhere but killing the class once again.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited April 2014
Replies: 489
Views: 35,476
Feedback: We dont want this all this change is about pvp and it destroy the one and only True Tank in NW .
After i try to respec my char 30 time and asked some friends to come whit me , my Sentinel no matter what skill or feat i use cant hold agro vs CW and DC so The Big Question : How will tank in NW "the new power change ": CW rule the DPS soo much he die always( cuz he have any time the agro) so what will be the new setup in pve ? cuz the only option left is to make 4 cw to not tank adds "control adds". PS my GF cant hold the agro vs CW too . PS 2 :My GWF have 18k GS i have 5 purple pets perfect enchants spend on him more then 50 mill my GF "also have this gear spend on it 30 mill" .
Feedback 2 : Destroyer GWF almost same gear full on power armor pen critt can do 75% dmg of 1 CW is this a good DPS realy? By my all respect this is s........
patch after patch gwf is more and more broken "even if the patch notes look fancy"
Can i ask from devs 1 time coupon to change my gear artifacts mounts for CW&race change Token cuz this is my 3rd char ruined to ground. 70 mill AD waisted an many zen i cant count my zen dont remember but i think is a lot too.
Also after so many True pvp player try out nw IWD i see Some CW Hobbyits rocking like hell on earth . Look to me The Shire invaded From Lotr Iwd. And those guys a teached by gandalf LOL. So the absolute ruler is CW now ? Best tank dps healer Nice job.
Sorry my text feels like offensive .
But i must scribe my feelings about this change .
The thing is after every 3-4 moth 1 of my char is ruined to hell and i must buy intensive nubers of zen to keep up even if i can recover my enchants from my chars this is not enugh ,there are artifacts and weapons armors boons . Its feels like living in a place what bombarded every 4 moth and you home is always got hit and you must rebuild all from the beginning cuz the securement always pay only the 10-20 % of you lost .
And you say hey my friends live here i dont want to leave this place but after so many ?i am considering cuz i am not stupid even if you think so.
"i write this from my phone sorry for it, if i have time i will correct it later"
crtic damge is bugged on gwf for example when i fully buff up ibs it do some 14-15k damage but its crtics are some 27-29k and my gwf have 145% crtic damage
This is a bug in the math. I have fixed it locally and it should be heading to preview this week.
As far as goals for these changes, there are actually a few primary goals here.
First, SoS and Deep Gash were both far more powerful than any other options at T1 and therefore were required choices by every single GWF regardless of spec. This isn't good for the health of the class or balance changes.
Secondly, The Destroyer tree really struggled to compete with the other trees in terms of being unique because the large portion of the damage any GWF dealt was coming from Deep Gash, which was not functioning as intended.
Third, we are ratcheting back the highest damage sources a bit to make other classes more competitive rather than trying to buff everyone else to that level because dungeons and foes were never really designed around players being able to deal as much damage as Wizards and GWFs deal on live currently. *Note* Wizard is also getting changes soon. A better comparison would be to TR at this time.
We want the three feat trees to feel distinct, but fixing a broken feat should not stop the other feat trees from working, and this belies some far more serious issues with those trees as well as some core issues with identity in the Instigator tree. These are things we would like to fix, but we have to get damage and broken feats in line before we make those changes because otherwise we won't have the right information to make those changes.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
This is a bug in the math. I have fixed it locally and it should be heading to preview this week.
As far as goals for these changes, there are actually a few primary goals here.
First, SoS and Deep Gash were both far more powerful than any other options at T1 and therefore were required choices by every single GWF regardless of spec. This isn't good for the health of the class or balance changes.
Secondly, The Destroyer tree really struggled to compete with the other trees in terms of being unique because the large portion of the damage any GWF dealt was coming from Deep Gash, which was not functioning as intended.
Third, we are ratcheting back the highest damage sources a bit to make other classes more competitive rather than trying to buff everyone else to that level because dungeons and foes were never really designed around players being able to deal as much damage as Wizards and GWFs deal on live currently. *Note* Wizard is also getting changes soon. A better comparison would be to TR at this time.
We want the three feat trees to feel distinct, but fixing a broken feat should not stop the other feat trees from working, and this belies some far more serious issues with those trees as well as some core issues with identity in the Instigator tree. These are things we would like to fix, but we have to get damage and broken feats in line before we make those changes because otherwise we won't have the right information to make those changes.
Sos was never my choice Cuz its not good for tanking Class ,Tank class need dot and Pure DPS to keep agro but we lose both .
So if you say this is need cuz was too powerfull give somthing in exchange for both Sentinel TANK and insigniator .
'We want the three feat trees to feel distinct, but fixing a broken feat should not stop the other feat trees from working, and this belies some far more serious issues with those trees as well as some core issues with identity in the Instigator tree. These are things we would like to fix, but we have to get damage and broken feats in line before we make those changes because otherwise we won't have the right information to make those changes."
Sentinel Threat generation is absolutely not working . No matter how much you stack on it . Pls fix this if somone want to Be DPS from me k but pls let at least 1 Tank in the game cuz GF failed her job total after mod 2 many ppl see GWF in replace for GF.
But after DG nerf we lose the agro and i dont think you will cut all CW s power in half they have broken armor pen and they do 3-6 mill more dmg then any Destroyer spec GWF in Preview Tested if you want i can post some screenshots after i am home .Also there is dc too if you not know there is a healing agro only working on him & not on Life .S user ppls.
Pls work on somthing to GWF tank is not a waised money like on preview .
Look on sentinel tree its a ture tank more then any gf tree pls make it viable make more much more threath on it.(I think this was her intention from devs too)
This is a bug in the math. I have fixed it locally and it should be heading to preview this week.
As far as goals for these changes, there are actually a few primary goals here.
First, SoS and Deep Gash were both far more powerful than any other options at T1 and therefore were required choices by every single GWF regardless of spec. This isn't good for the health of the class or balance changes.
comparing gwf to some other class doesnt matter as long as there is cw that deals 2x more damage than any other class, you need to compare against best option for party not some tr nobody needs since fix of running
Secondly, The Destroyer tree really struggled to compete with the other trees in terms of being unique because the large portion of the damage any GWF dealt was coming from Deep Gash, which was not functioning as intended.
Third, we are ratcheting back the highest damage sources a bit to make other classes more competitive rather than trying to buff everyone else to that level because dungeons and foes were never really designed around players being able to deal as much damage as Wizards and GWFs deal on live currently. *Note* Wizard is also getting changes soon. A better comparison would be to TR at this time.
We want the three feat trees to feel distinct, but fixing a broken feat should not stop the other feat trees from working, and this belies some far more serious issues with those trees as well as some core issues with identity in the Instigator tree. These are things we would like to fix, but we have to get damage and broken feats in line before we make those changes because otherwise we won't have the right information to make those changes.
SoS gave nice utility to gwf, so if we lose all utility we need to be Nr1 in damage by far since its only thing we give to party.
atm destroyer is the ONLY tree worth playing in pve, you should rework inst to give equal damage(though destro should be more encounter based while inst at-will based) and you have to do smth about inst capstone there is too much random damage flying around(like these ticks from valindra) for it to be useful , maybe reverse it so it gives damage bonus for x seconds after TAKING damage, that would feel more in line with rest of GWF skillset and feel.
SoS and Deep gash now will be feats ppl skip, so from must have to must skip
about wizards getting fixed Soon(tm) - wizards are broken op in pve since betas and nothing(meaningful) has been done about it except reducing mob pushing
i know you are busy working, but more communication from ppl really required about major things like these, hour or 2 spent on forums a week by somebody from team are really beneficial to community, cause being left in the dark is really frustrating, instead of some mods who dont know what they are doing half the time :P
Paladin Master Race
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited April 2014
Why all devs avoid the one REAL big question why is GF and GWF tank not need ? Cuz we dont have agro why can a single pet do more agro and gain instant agro from boss then from any Guardian or Great Weapon ?Even a white quality [Man at Arms] can instant agro adds and bosses.
Why cant the GF&GWF Sentinel not do her job ?
This is a core element of D&D and any other mmo TANK CAN TANK DMG /TANK CAN AGRO adds boss ppl .
Third, we are ratcheting back the highest damage sources a bit to make other classes more competitive rather than trying to buff everyone else to that level because dungeons and foes were never really designed around players being able to deal as much damage as Wizards and GWFs deal on live currently. *Note* Wizard is also getting changes soon. A better comparison would be to TR at this time.
We want the three feat trees to feel distinct, but fixing a broken feat should not stop the other feat trees from working, and this belies some far more serious issues with those trees as well as some core issues with identity in the Instigator tree. These are things we would like to fix, but we have to get damage and broken feats in line before we make those changes because otherwise we won't have the right information to make those changes.
First, Thanks for taking the time to respond here. Seriously, its re-affirming when we see acknowledgements and it goes a LONG way to boosting faith in you guys.
Second, to me, it seems pretty telling that the final feat for destroyer is a 40% damage boost and this is to "balance the class". Is that not telling you that for a class to be "balanced" and STILL not up to par with current CWs on LIVE/PTR they need a 40% dmg boost?
I mean that does blow my mind.
Third, Have you thought about keeping Deep Gash similar to LIVE but putting it deeper in the tree? Say the second to last tier? This would mean you do have to spec full Destroyer to get it, and it COULD be amazing.
Forth, These changes just made ALL Sents worthless in both PVP and PVE. PVE - Cant tank/hold agro worth anything. PVP - Cant do ANY damage compared to the added tankiness. Sure there was a balance issue here but you just took away MAJOR amounts of DPS from non-Destoryer builds.
SOTS - went from about a 9% dmg boost to 5%, and Deep Gash went from north of 30% to now about 5%. While I understand for T1 feats that is OP that you can gain 40% dmg boost - In PVE it was honestly NEEDED!
PVP? Sents dealt too much damage I agree, But NOW Sents deal such little damage they cant do anything for either PVP or PVE.
If you REALLY wanna balance the classes out, now unfortunately you need to look at what you took away from Sentinels AND Instigators and try to compensate THEIR feats.
Destroyer feat- Great Weapon Focus needs a buff to 5/10/15/20/25% at will dmg its a joke that GWF have probly worst atwill dmg with greatsword as weapon
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pandapaulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 424Bounty Hunter
This is a bug in the math. I have fixed it locally and it should be heading to preview this week.
As far as goals for these changes, there are actually a few primary goals here.
First, SoS and Deep Gash were both far more powerful than any other options at T1 and therefore were required choices by every single GWF regardless of spec. This isn't good for the health of the class or balance changes.
Secondly, The Destroyer tree really struggled to compete with the other trees in terms of being unique because the large portion of the damage any GWF dealt was coming from Deep Gash, which was not functioning as intended.
Third, we are ratcheting back the highest damage sources a bit to make other classes more competitive rather than trying to buff everyone else to that level because dungeons and foes were never really designed around players being able to deal as much damage as Wizards and GWFs deal on live currently. *Note* Wizard is also getting changes soon. A better comparison would be to TR at this time.
We want the three feat trees to feel distinct, but fixing a broken feat should not stop the other feat trees from working, and this belies some far more serious issues with those trees as well as some core issues with identity in the Instigator tree. These are things we would like to fix, but we have to get damage and broken feats in line before we make those changes because otherwise we won't have the right information to make those changes.
Thank you for the reply
But I feel the real questions are still being avoided.. And have not been answered and that is what people are concerned about
Firstly you so deep gash and student of the sword offer to much as a T1.. Well move them further into the destroyer tree.. Every GWF uses them because there isn't any other options.. The t3/t4 feats in GWF are so horribly bad that everyone stacks the T1... The GWF feats are very bad now... There is a few must haves but now it's difficult to spend all your feat points.. Because there isn't enough useful feats to use... It's that bad especially with the high end gwfs
Next you have added nothing to benefit a party.. Without student of the sword we have nothing to bring to a party.. At all.... This needs to be addressed.. Why would u bring a GWF at all now . Sub par damage. Sub par tanking now.. No party benefit... Why?? No reason at all... You need to add some design to benefit a party because u have taken the last part way
Executioner style is a terrible feat .. Even after changes.. It's fools gold and has almost no benefit.. It's dealing damage to things that aren't needed.. Things that are about to die.. I'm sorry but if this is all we have left then the class is finished
Dps is so highly linked to Agro.. Now we can't dps or tank... What's left??
Please address the ninja nerfs too. Why haven't we heard anything about the unstoppable nerfs.. This is disappointing... We aren't stupid but yet it seems like we are being treated that way
Now you say cw will be addressed.. You have released nothing.. When?? This is important... With mod 3 upon us everyone is worried that it will come with the most imbalanced module yet... You say soon.. When? Give us something.. Because this is a major concern
Please you need to actually add feats that benefit GWF.. Not take Away the good ones and add more bad ones
Right now if these changes go ahead GWF is dead again.. Please understand that....
This is a bug in the math. I have fixed it locally and it should be heading to preview this week.
'll be watching to see if I reach 60k critical one with my ibs + bf + tutti quanti. if yes, sounds great.
As far as goals for these changes, there are actually a few primary goals here.
First, SoS and Deep Gash were both far more powerful than any other options at T1 and therefore were required choices by every single GWF regardless of spec. This isn't good for the health of the class or balance changes.
true. but changes need to be proportionate in the precise sense that sacrificed the debuff is necessary to highlight another feature class as a tank or damage in relation to live, considering that the "status quo" for now, is even more pronounced .. . mainly ice wind where everything is a danger to the melee, ie, the "fighter" becomes the most vulnerable.
Secondly, The Destroyer tree really struggled to compete with the other trees in terms of being unique because the large portion of the damage any GWF dealt was coming from Deep Gash, which was not functioning as intended.
said that in feedback thread from the last module ... several times, let it be said in passing.
Third, we are ratcheting back the highest damage sources a bit to make other classes more competitive rather than trying to buff everyone else to that level because dungeons and foes were never really designed around players being able to deal as much damage as Wizards and GWFs deal on live currently. *Note* Wizard is also getting changes soon. A better comparison would be to TR at this time.
ok, nothing Could be more emblematic of what to "look for rogue." he has the unique ability to disarm traps. until Module2 at least it is served?
does not help torment the ghost of the "dead class." and what it means to "be looking for cw"? he will not blow it over while I'm trying to accumulate all these stacks?
Waiting for the patch about.
We want the three feat trees to feel distinct, but fixing a broken feat should not stop the other feat trees from working, and this belies some far more serious issues with those trees as well as some core issues with identity in the Instigator tree. These are things we would like to fix, but we have to get damage and broken feats in line before we make those changes because otherwise we won't have the right information to make those changes
again, Waiting for the patch about.
ps:is not really the post of someone angry. I really do not know what to expect, or what I can do to prevent a "disastrous" scenario occurs. I'm not really optimistic about it, not even.
This is a bug in the math. I have fixed it locally and it should be heading to preview this week.
As far as goals for these changes, there are actually a few primary goals here.
First, SoS and Deep Gash were both far more powerful than any other options at T1 and therefore were required choices by every single GWF regardless of spec. This isn't good for the health of the class or balance changes.
Secondly, The Destroyer tree really struggled to compete with the other trees in terms of being unique because the large portion of the damage any GWF dealt was coming from Deep Gash, which was not functioning as intended.
Third, we are ratcheting back the highest damage sources a bit to make other classes more competitive rather than trying to buff everyone else to that level because dungeons and foes were never really designed around players being able to deal as much damage as Wizards and GWFs deal on live currently. *Note* Wizard is also getting changes soon. A better comparison would be to TR at this time.
We want the three feat trees to feel distinct, but fixing a broken feat should not stop the other feat trees from working, and this belies some far more serious issues with those trees as well as some core issues with identity in the Instigator tree. These are things we would like to fix, but we have to get damage and broken feats in line before we make those changes because otherwise we won't have the right information to make those changes.
mind telling us why unstoppable duration on preview is 30%~shorter than on live?
1st you make a Tree that is based on unstoppable to generate the stacks to benefit the dmg and then you ninja nerf unstoppable duration this doesnt make any sense.
Destroyer feat- Great Weapon Focus needs a buff to 5/10/15/20/25% at will dmg its a joke that GWF have probly worst atwill dmg with greatsword as weapon
Honestly this exactly...
I swing my 2h weapon with 1000 top end for 500-600 hit on a dummy....
I swing my 1h sword on GF with 670 top end and it hits for 1200....
Yes there is a power difference, but honestly a big solution to GWF would be to address the at will dmg... I personally wouldnt mind slowing down the at wills but have them hitting much much harder - you know, like your actually wielding a massive 2h weapon?
Second the above point, why is Unstoppable so much shorter duration? The stacks are not hard to get, but it seems like a pretty large nerf to the class as a whole when you make the tanky build unviable, give GWFs nice damage now, but they cant survive at all ....
mind telling us why unstoppable duration on preview is 30%~shorter than on live?
1st you make a Tree that is based on unstoppable to generate the stacks to benefit the dmg and then you ninja nerf unstoppable duration this doesnt make any sense.
I can't find any evidence of any change to Unstoppable duration. It is still 8 seconds at max, which is scaled to your current Determination percentage. Could you provide more context as to why you think it is 30% shorter? That is a pretty serious change, and one that doesn't appear to be present in any data I can find.
" Executioner style is a terrible feat .. Even after changes.. It's fools gold and has almost no benefit.. It's dealing damage to things that aren't needed.. Things that are about to die.. I'm sorry but if this is all we have left then the class is finished"
that is a good point. cause additional damage when the enemy is dying with ibs still going; is a guarantee of gain ap. but and sure strike?
tell by the way, this bonus is given from which a percentage of hp? 25%? 30% 10%?
Since we complain a lot I just wanted to drop how welcomed it is to see gcrush asking specifics, providing feedback and explaining the thought process behind the changes on a regular basis around here. It does not only make you feel that somebody cares but also lets us test changes specifically towards their intended goal.
I can't find any evidence of any change to Unstoppable duration. It is still 8 seconds at max, which is scaled to your current Determination percentage. Could you provide more context as to why you think it is 30% shorter? That is a pretty serious change, and one that doesn't appear to be present in any data I can find.
When you the amount of damage unstoppable (or use a encounter, i dont know), at least the destroyer, often cause a "delay" in Kicking prolonging effect .... this in live from module 1.
are these bugs that support the class. is not a question of evidence. or you test for yourself, or rely on our word. Now if this was "fixed", I'd love to know what will be given in return.
we are not really wanting to gain advantages with this topic. no feedback here has the pretense of making the best gwf than it is currently.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited April 2014
Somthing is total wrong the hole patch about the GWF i total broken whit 45% crit chance from every 10 hit only 1 hit crit ?
45% is not 10 % i tested it whit 100 hits only 28 hit was crit do i somthing wrong or idk(now its 28%). Deeper test 500 hit 128 hit crit (now its 25%) .
Aslo whit Formorian fable GS 10127 power 61 % base dmg buff(sure strike base dmg 875 -1050) its too low .
Also i tested unstoppbe its still 8 sec dont know what ppl are talking about.
Also whit Formorian fable GS 10127 power 61 % base dmg full destroyer IV best crit Dmg full stack 20 DP and
3 stack Destroyer "feated " my best dmg whit P vorpal IBS 24 k OMG+2600 DG dmg .
Lets See Sentinel same power Formorian fable GS 10127 power 61 %.IBS 18k lol+2600 DG dmg .
Lets see marked and controlled IBS 21300+2600DG dmg so the difference in the old setup and the new setup is 2700 dmg keep your fancy destroyer.
So after marking and change to destroyer "try to be tank" he cant do the job too the DMG nerf is huge like hulk , in live if i do whit the same power 28k IBS i do now 28k DG dmg what helped me keep agro on adds and boss now nothing helps the sentinel to keep the agro .He is failing her job also Destroyer "fake DPS" fail to be tank as GF too.
BY Odins beard NO pls dot destroy our GWFs at least buff Sentinel tree agro/threat generation "aoe Threat by huge amount the nerf is huge too" .
I will try and give solid feedback here as it seems to me that you truly want feedback.
- From playing the GWF in zone pvp I found my current Sentinel build completely worthless. I dominate current LIVE PVP and didnt do that bad either in PVE. Sure CWs would double my damage but from Deep Gash/SOTS and Slam I had a fair chance in holding agro for short bits if I attacked first as a fully geared out Sent versus lower 12-14k GS CWs.
Now, my damage is nerfed SO hard, I literally feel completely toothless... SO! I can adapt, I went Destroyer as that seems to be the ONLY way to play the class. While its fun (getting fun crits in PVE) it really misses the core problem of the class and it seems to be you just exchanged "Sent or GTFO" to "Destroyer or GTFO" and didnt really change the REAL issue.
What is the REAL issue: The specs are not viable, the feats need a rework.
The fact you have to have a final feat boost Damage by 40% to make it balanced?
- Lets consider the GF final tier feat in Conqueror tree - This isnt a 40% dmg boost, it doubles your power, and even when I am running Profound Conqueror set (which stacks power) I go from a 20% damage boost from Power to a 37% damage boost from power. THis also scales based on guard meter.
SO, AT BEST its a 17% dmg boost... Compared to 40%?! Now, I am not advocating for "nerfs/buffs" I am MERELY pointing out the insanity of the NEED for a GWF rework NOW that you toned back our other feats....
ALL of this feedback/testing tells me one thing Crush.....
GWFs NEED feats like Deep Gash to make them viable. SO, in a true sincere effort to help you guys out I have compiled a list of IDEAS that may or may not be of value to you I have broken these up into the different TREES:
INSTIGATOR:
Tier 1) SOTS - Fine, leave it at 5% that makes sense to me.
Tier 1) Fleet Footed - The 4e says this just gives pure Run Speed. So, Make this a pure run speed % Something like 5% or even 8%.
Tier 3) Allied Opportunity SHOULD be - Mighty Leap and Not So Fast deal 50% more damage. Mighty Leap now PRONES targets hit with the AOE. Not so Fast slows targets by 30% and lasts .4/.8/1.2/1.6/2s longer.
Tier 3) Nimble Runner - Sprint and Charge grant 25% deflect chance (up from 10%) and you gain 10% more stamina recovery. This makes Sprint a viable defense now for Instigator.
Tier 4) Group Assault - ALL At Wills deal an additional 2/4/6/8/10% damage AND no longer lose damage based on number of targets hit. - This would be a significant DPS boost for PVE!
Tier 4) Crippling Strike - Boost this to 80% and 6 seconds.
Tier 5 (CAPSTONE) - Instigators Vengeance - This should be: Increase damage by 10% upon RECEIVING damage, stacks 3 times (30% boost - to compete with a 40% Dest capstone). Lasts 6 seconds (is refreshed upon receiving damage).
DESTROYER:
Assuming the current LIVE build
SENTINEL:
Tier 2) Powerful Challenge (This was some of the issue why Sents were OP in PVP) - Grants 15% Critical Severity and critical strikes deal an additional 25% Threat to marked targets.
Tier 3) Grudge Style - ALL at wills have a increased 5% chance to crit and generate an additional 25% threat.
Tier 3) Intimidation - This is worthless because the two encounters are worthless... Beef up the encounters and this will work.
Daring Shout, This should replicate Enforced Threat - AOE damager
Come and Get it, This needs to be a quick animation with BIG "pull" effects as well as maybe a 1 second Daze at the end for CC AS WELL AS a damager. (Because of the nature of 3 encounters, nobody slots utility encounters)
Tier 4) Master at Arms - This should be a damage bonus (Sents NEED it) Increases damage by 2% for each stack of weapon master - still gives 5AC. (10% dmg boost + 2.5% DR)
Tier 4) Defiance - Your DAILY powers deal an additional 10% damage and 25% more threat AND your defense is increased by 25% for 6 seconds.
Tier 5 (CAPSTONE) Sent Aegis - Increased Defense by 20% AND all incoming healing by 30% (has other synergies).
These are just IDEAS!
I think this would make the Instigator path attractive and viable - a little less damaging but more "opportunistic" with things like mighty leap prone, Sprinting more = high deflect. And the capstone beefing up damage nicely.
Sentinels get a little more damage boosters and alot of nice threat boosters.
This all then gives you the playing field to level out CWs a tad.
about what I said about the delay in unstoppable, this also happens in the preview, and contrary to what I thought, is not linked to damage values.
I really do not know why, during battles, there is this feeling that he's unstoppable is smaller, and it definitely is not a kind of collective delusion that I have died alot in preview.
weird ... but retreat here the misinformation.
"- Lets consider the end tier feat in GF Conqueror tree - This is not the 40% dmg boost, it doubles your power, and even when i am running Profound Conqueror set (Which stacks power) I go from a 20% damage boost from Power to 37% damage boost from power. THis Also scales based on scoring guard."
gf, conqueror or not, is not "unfettered torrent of rage and anger que deals a crushing amount of damage on the foe is Likely to Survive.". he is a defender, in its hegemonic function now.
Finally, the destroyer feets are VERY powerful , that no one disagrees. the problem is that the gwf itself is very weak, and as there is a fear around the sentinel ...
"Tier 3) Allied Opportunity SHOULD be - Mighty Leap and Not So Fast deal 50% more damage. Mighty Leap now PRONES targets hit with the AOE. Not so Fast slows targets by 30% and lasts .4/.8/1.2/1.6/2s longer."
know what would be cool? if not so fast would cause delay in the countdown of the enemy, equal to that enchant of cold ... can not remember the name.
ps:if the instigator turned a 'melee controler "that, instead of taking advantage of the logistics of distance, used speed, I definitely will roll another gwf.
I actually like that aggro is the distinctive difference between the GWF and GF and I don't think any buff is necessary for the GWF in that area. Right now, you can go full DPS, survivability or utility (or whatever Instigator is) with the GWF. With the GF, you always have massive aggro and can add some DPS, but not as much as the GWF, some tankiness, again not as much as the GWF, or support/utility.
This seems to be a pretty good balance between the two fighter classes. So now that the GWF has lost its utility and also isn't the clear-cut winner in damage any longer, you might want to think about adding a little bit more aggro to your group composition. And this shouldn't be done by buffing the Sentinel path, this should be done by inviting a GF.
There is also this huge problem that's called CW. These damage monsters make it unable to truly evaluate the abilities of tanks to hold aggro at the moment. I take every report of this and that player unable to hold aggro with a grain of salt. The other aggro magnet Split Shot is toned down a bit so this will certainly help tanks as well.
BY Odins beard NO pls dot destroy our GWFs at least buff Sentinel tree agro/threat generation "aoe Threat by huge amount the nerf is huge too" .
Aren't you being a little selfish? The GWF was never meant to be the aggro generator. That was the GF's job from the beginning. They are fixing it so that the GF is the only class that can generate aggro well (aside from the cw).
Comments
yeah i noticed this to a lot of ppl do not understand how much dps improvments cw will get with new power if 6-7k power cw and use eye of the storm and ty 100% crti chance it give cw will do some 30- 40% damage more then before
i still do not get if deep gash was broken op how is then eye of storm is not what else class have class skill which gives 100% crtic chance with allmost 100% up time
I already reported this; is the funniest part of it. all these boosts, including the destroyer porpose , disregard their critical severity. critical severity is only working toward the base damage, this hypothetical "40%" that is added to critical damage already calculated ... even as a modifier on the base damage, and not a debuff.
so I said the first and only significant buff that gwf received so far has been rentless battle fury.
I must have looked crazy with this sudden change of mood; but is that yesterday I had the sadistic pleasure of attending the event with the devs. was there. multiple cw destroying everything safely in a few moments and the poor gwf getting do nothing in the meantime ... off the rogue itself, pity, exposed to all the dangers (why only melee attacks are dangerous I do not know) and causing a ridiculous damage.
Will become powerful cw for pvp worth more than make all other classes useful for pve? say that bleed represented a much smaller fraction of damage is something understandable by distancing the real game, but it is impossible not to notice how the changes are insignificant against the background witnessed with an real gameplay.
ps:I never went back to spend the 40k with a critical ibs (normal number for the shard, vs 5, and control). the executioner style in general is not working anymore.
then we have the following phenomena.
buffs or are unsatisfactory for the fast gameplay, or simply is not working.
the gwf is less resistant.
low aoe.
loss of dynamic/ cancelation(why should I play with gwf now?)
no utility.
This is not a matter of fanatism with the class, is this injustice that irritates.
In module 2 a GWF could at least play Instigator and Sentinel and still be useful in PvE compared to the Destroyer build. Now all PvE GWFs must be destroyer. And they will be a mear shadoe of there former selves. This would not be a bad thing if CW was also getting knowced down with them but they are not. GWf used to be the only class that could be a valuable member of the group like the CW. Now we will have pure teams of W;s again no other class will have a spot.
The role a GWF needs to be in the group is top damage dealt. They have no utility now they cannot lower target defenses with student of the sword they bring no additional damage to the group. All there damage is there own. And this damage will most likely be less than any damage a CW does who also has massive control and debuffs.
It saddens me that I must become an elitist and refuse to allow any non-destroyer GWF into a PvE team. If I even ever allow them in my groups at all. I liked playing GWF with my CW friends in module 2. But now with this nerf I will be going back to my CW main and me and my CW team will not allow any class other than maybe a DC into our groups.
Gwf does zero damage when not unstoppable. Even in pve. Keeps getting smashed back, sent into the air, glued, stunned, proned, slowed and so on. Any mechanism of any for will work against him. Only once Unstoppable triggers, does the gwf start to actually deliver damage himself.
Which damage exactly? Base damage of any of its atwill-encounter-daily is negligible. Low weapon damage (2h teaspoon), target caps. Deep gash being going to trash bin, there remains only the crits.
Delivering crits during Unstoppable time: this is the core of gwf damage. And this is where the devs have sneaked in their hidden, unmentionned ninja nerfs. The crits don't, the Unstoppable won't.
Capped crits during a reduced Unstoppable time: this is mod3
just to give a preliminary idea. I do not know if fear is to make the destroyer has a good critical rate + high strength and still runs like a bullet with the Bravery, then do the following: let this bonus destroyer porpose conditioning the use of Steadfast Determination, with precondition for a legitimate bonus or activation of unstoppable to receive the bonus (or both since it will have a blocked by a bad feat).
Why do you intend to limit the GWFs' offensive and defensive capabilities by this extend? What is the goal or the big picture behind it? What role do you want the GWF to take on?
Please, enlighten us. I'm highly disappointed by your communication, the - hopefully unintended - ninja nerfs to unstoppable/crit just top this off.
I don't know, maybe the devs are trying to bring gwf on par with other classes. I suppose they have stats on pvp matches and have seen gwfs dominate the battlefield. just my 2p
right now their buffs/ninja nerfs are going to nowhere but killing the class once again.
Views: 35,476
Feedback: We dont want this all this change is about pvp and it destroy the one and only True Tank in NW .
After i try to respec my char 30 time and asked some friends to come whit me , my Sentinel no matter what skill or feat i use cant hold agro vs CW and DC so The Big Question : How will tank in NW "the new power change ": CW rule the DPS soo much he die always( cuz he have any time the agro) so what will be the new setup in pve ? cuz the only option left is to make 4 cw to not tank adds "control adds". PS my GF cant hold the agro vs CW too . PS 2 :My GWF have 18k GS i have 5 purple pets perfect enchants spend on him more then 50 mill my GF "also have this gear spend on it 30 mill" .
Feedback 2 : Destroyer GWF almost same gear full on power armor pen critt can do 75% dmg of 1 CW is this a good DPS realy? By my all respect this is s........
patch after patch gwf is more and more broken "even if the patch notes look fancy"
Can i ask from devs 1 time coupon to change my gear artifacts mounts for CW&race change Token cuz this is my 3rd char ruined to ground. 70 mill AD waisted an many zen i cant count my zen dont remember but i think is a lot too.
Also after so many True pvp player try out nw IWD i see Some CW Hobbyits rocking like hell on earth . Look to me The Shire invaded From Lotr Iwd. And those guys a teached by gandalf LOL. So the absolute ruler is CW now ? Best tank dps healer Nice job.
Sorry my text feels like offensive .
But i must scribe my feelings about this change .
The thing is after every 3-4 moth 1 of my char is ruined to hell and i must buy intensive nubers of zen to keep up even if i can recover my enchants from my chars this is not enugh ,there are artifacts and weapons armors boons . Its feels like living in a place what bombarded every 4 moth and you home is always got hit and you must rebuild all from the beginning cuz the securement always pay only the 10-20 % of you lost .
And you say hey my friends live here i dont want to leave this place but after so many ?i am considering cuz i am not stupid even if you think so.
"i write this from my phone sorry for it, if i have time i will correct it later"
This is a bug in the math. I have fixed it locally and it should be heading to preview this week.
As far as goals for these changes, there are actually a few primary goals here.
First, SoS and Deep Gash were both far more powerful than any other options at T1 and therefore were required choices by every single GWF regardless of spec. This isn't good for the health of the class or balance changes.
Secondly, The Destroyer tree really struggled to compete with the other trees in terms of being unique because the large portion of the damage any GWF dealt was coming from Deep Gash, which was not functioning as intended.
Third, we are ratcheting back the highest damage sources a bit to make other classes more competitive rather than trying to buff everyone else to that level because dungeons and foes were never really designed around players being able to deal as much damage as Wizards and GWFs deal on live currently. *Note* Wizard is also getting changes soon. A better comparison would be to TR at this time.
We want the three feat trees to feel distinct, but fixing a broken feat should not stop the other feat trees from working, and this belies some far more serious issues with those trees as well as some core issues with identity in the Instigator tree. These are things we would like to fix, but we have to get damage and broken feats in line before we make those changes because otherwise we won't have the right information to make those changes.
Sos was never my choice Cuz its not good for tanking Class ,Tank class need dot and Pure DPS to keep agro but we lose both .
So if you say this is need cuz was too powerfull give somthing in exchange for both Sentinel TANK and insigniator .
'We want the three feat trees to feel distinct, but fixing a broken feat should not stop the other feat trees from working, and this belies some far more serious issues with those trees as well as some core issues with identity in the Instigator tree. These are things we would like to fix, but we have to get damage and broken feats in line before we make those changes because otherwise we won't have the right information to make those changes."
Sentinel Threat generation is absolutely not working . No matter how much you stack on it . Pls fix this if somone want to Be DPS from me k but pls let at least 1 Tank in the game cuz GF failed her job total after mod 2 many ppl see GWF in replace for GF.
But after DG nerf we lose the agro and i dont think you will cut all CW s power in half they have broken armor pen and they do 3-6 mill more dmg then any Destroyer spec GWF in Preview Tested if you want i can post some screenshots after i am home .Also there is dc too if you not know there is a healing agro only working on him & not on Life .S user ppls.
Pls work on somthing to GWF tank is not a waised money like on preview .
Look on sentinel tree its a ture tank more then any gf tree pls make it viable make more much more threath on it.(I think this was her intention from devs too)
SoS gave nice utility to gwf, so if we lose all utility we need to be Nr1 in damage by far since its only thing we give to party.
atm destroyer is the ONLY tree worth playing in pve, you should rework inst to give equal damage(though destro should be more encounter based while inst at-will based) and you have to do smth about inst capstone there is too much random damage flying around(like these ticks from valindra) for it to be useful , maybe reverse it so it gives damage bonus for x seconds after TAKING damage, that would feel more in line with rest of GWF skillset and feel.
SoS and Deep gash now will be feats ppl skip, so from must have to must skip
about wizards getting fixed Soon(tm) - wizards are broken op in pve since betas and nothing(meaningful) has been done about it except reducing mob pushing
i know you are busy working, but more communication from ppl really required about major things like these, hour or 2 spent on forums a week by somebody from team are really beneficial to community, cause being left in the dark is really frustrating, instead of some mods who dont know what they are doing half the time :P
Why cant the GF&GWF Sentinel not do her job ?
This is a core element of D&D and any other mmo TANK CAN TANK DMG /TANK CAN AGRO adds boss ppl .
First, Thanks for taking the time to respond here. Seriously, its re-affirming when we see acknowledgements and it goes a LONG way to boosting faith in you guys.
Second, to me, it seems pretty telling that the final feat for destroyer is a 40% damage boost and this is to "balance the class". Is that not telling you that for a class to be "balanced" and STILL not up to par with current CWs on LIVE/PTR they need a 40% dmg boost?
I mean that does blow my mind.
Third, Have you thought about keeping Deep Gash similar to LIVE but putting it deeper in the tree? Say the second to last tier? This would mean you do have to spec full Destroyer to get it, and it COULD be amazing.
Forth, These changes just made ALL Sents worthless in both PVP and PVE. PVE - Cant tank/hold agro worth anything. PVP - Cant do ANY damage compared to the added tankiness. Sure there was a balance issue here but you just took away MAJOR amounts of DPS from non-Destoryer builds.
SOTS - went from about a 9% dmg boost to 5%, and Deep Gash went from north of 30% to now about 5%. While I understand for T1 feats that is OP that you can gain 40% dmg boost - In PVE it was honestly NEEDED!
PVP? Sents dealt too much damage I agree, But NOW Sents deal such little damage they cant do anything for either PVP or PVE.
If you REALLY wanna balance the classes out, now unfortunately you need to look at what you took away from Sentinels AND Instigators and try to compensate THEIR feats.
Thank you for the reply
But I feel the real questions are still being avoided.. And have not been answered and that is what people are concerned about
Firstly you so deep gash and student of the sword offer to much as a T1.. Well move them further into the destroyer tree.. Every GWF uses them because there isn't any other options.. The t3/t4 feats in GWF are so horribly bad that everyone stacks the T1... The GWF feats are very bad now... There is a few must haves but now it's difficult to spend all your feat points.. Because there isn't enough useful feats to use... It's that bad especially with the high end gwfs
Next you have added nothing to benefit a party.. Without student of the sword we have nothing to bring to a party.. At all.... This needs to be addressed.. Why would u bring a GWF at all now . Sub par damage. Sub par tanking now.. No party benefit... Why?? No reason at all... You need to add some design to benefit a party because u have taken the last part way
Executioner style is a terrible feat .. Even after changes.. It's fools gold and has almost no benefit.. It's dealing damage to things that aren't needed.. Things that are about to die.. I'm sorry but if this is all we have left then the class is finished
Dps is so highly linked to Agro.. Now we can't dps or tank... What's left??
Please address the ninja nerfs too. Why haven't we heard anything about the unstoppable nerfs.. This is disappointing... We aren't stupid but yet it seems like we are being treated that way
Now you say cw will be addressed.. You have released nothing.. When?? This is important... With mod 3 upon us everyone is worried that it will come with the most imbalanced module yet... You say soon.. When? Give us something.. Because this is a major concern
Please you need to actually add feats that benefit GWF.. Not take Away the good ones and add more bad ones
Right now if these changes go ahead GWF is dead again.. Please understand that....
As far as goals for these changes, there are actually a few primary goals here.
First, SoS and Deep Gash were both far more powerful than any other options at T1 and therefore were required choices by every single GWF regardless of spec. This isn't good for the health of the class or balance changes.
true. but changes need to be proportionate in the precise sense that sacrificed the debuff is necessary to highlight another feature class as a tank or damage in relation to live, considering that the "status quo" for now, is even more pronounced .. . mainly ice wind where everything is a danger to the melee, ie, the "fighter" becomes the most vulnerable.
Secondly, The Destroyer tree really struggled to compete with the other trees in terms of being unique because the large portion of the damage any GWF dealt was coming from Deep Gash, which was not functioning as intended.
said that in feedback thread from the last module ... several times, let it be said in passing.
Third, we are ratcheting back the highest damage sources a bit to make other classes more competitive rather than trying to buff everyone else to that level because dungeons and foes were never really designed around players being able to deal as much damage as Wizards and GWFs deal on live currently. *Note* Wizard is also getting changes soon. A better comparison would be to TR at this time.
ok, nothing Could be more emblematic of what to "look for rogue." he has the unique ability to disarm traps. until Module2 at least it is served?
does not help torment the ghost of the "dead class." and what it means to "be looking for cw"? he will not blow it over while I'm trying to accumulate all these stacks?
Waiting for the patch about.
We want the three feat trees to feel distinct, but fixing a broken feat should not stop the other feat trees from working, and this belies some far more serious issues with those trees as well as some core issues with identity in the Instigator tree. These are things we would like to fix, but we have to get damage and broken feats in line before we make those changes because otherwise we won't have the right information to make those changes
again, Waiting for the patch about.
ps:is not really the post of someone angry. I really do not know what to expect, or what I can do to prevent a "disastrous" scenario occurs. I'm not really optimistic about it, not even.
1st you make a Tree that is based on unstoppable to generate the stacks to benefit the dmg and then you ninja nerf unstoppable duration this doesnt make any sense.
Honestly this exactly...
I swing my 2h weapon with 1000 top end for 500-600 hit on a dummy....
I swing my 1h sword on GF with 670 top end and it hits for 1200....
Yes there is a power difference, but honestly a big solution to GWF would be to address the at will dmg... I personally wouldnt mind slowing down the at wills but have them hitting much much harder - you know, like your actually wielding a massive 2h weapon?
Second the above point, why is Unstoppable so much shorter duration? The stacks are not hard to get, but it seems like a pretty large nerf to the class as a whole when you make the tanky build unviable, give GWFs nice damage now, but they cant survive at all ....
I can't find any evidence of any change to Unstoppable duration. It is still 8 seconds at max, which is scaled to your current Determination percentage. Could you provide more context as to why you think it is 30% shorter? That is a pretty serious change, and one that doesn't appear to be present in any data I can find.
that is a good point. cause additional damage when the enemy is dying with ibs still going; is a guarantee of gain ap. but and sure strike?
tell by the way, this bonus is given from which a percentage of hp? 25%? 30% 10%?
When you the amount of damage unstoppable (or use a encounter, i dont know), at least the destroyer, often cause a "delay" in Kicking prolonging effect .... this in live from module 1.
are these bugs that support the class. is not a question of evidence. or you test for yourself, or rely on our word. Now if this was "fixed", I'd love to know what will be given in return.
we are not really wanting to gain advantages with this topic. no feedback here has the pretense of making the best gwf than it is currently.
45% is not 10 % i tested it whit 100 hits only 28 hit was crit do i somthing wrong or idk(now its 28%). Deeper test 500 hit 128 hit crit (now its 25%) .
Aslo whit Formorian fable GS 10127 power 61 % base dmg buff(sure strike base dmg 875 -1050) its too low .
Also i tested unstoppbe its still 8 sec dont know what ppl are talking about.
Also whit Formorian fable GS 10127 power 61 % base dmg full destroyer IV best crit Dmg full stack 20 DP and
3 stack Destroyer "feated " my best dmg whit P vorpal IBS 24 k OMG+2600 DG dmg .
Lets See Sentinel same power Formorian fable GS 10127 power 61 %.IBS 18k lol+2600 DG dmg .
Lets see marked and controlled IBS 21300+2600DG dmg so the difference in the old setup and the new setup is 2700 dmg keep your fancy destroyer.
So after marking and change to destroyer "try to be tank" he cant do the job too the DMG nerf is huge like hulk , in live if i do whit the same power 28k IBS i do now 28k DG dmg what helped me keep agro on adds and boss now nothing helps the sentinel to keep the agro .He is failing her job also Destroyer "fake DPS" fail to be tank as GF too.
BY Odins beard NO pls dot destroy our GWFs at least buff Sentinel tree agro/threat generation "aoe Threat by huge amount the nerf is huge too" .
I will try and give solid feedback here as it seems to me that you truly want feedback.
- From playing the GWF in zone pvp I found my current Sentinel build completely worthless. I dominate current LIVE PVP and didnt do that bad either in PVE. Sure CWs would double my damage but from Deep Gash/SOTS and Slam I had a fair chance in holding agro for short bits if I attacked first as a fully geared out Sent versus lower 12-14k GS CWs.
Now, my damage is nerfed SO hard, I literally feel completely toothless... SO! I can adapt, I went Destroyer as that seems to be the ONLY way to play the class. While its fun (getting fun crits in PVE) it really misses the core problem of the class and it seems to be you just exchanged "Sent or GTFO" to "Destroyer or GTFO" and didnt really change the REAL issue.
What is the REAL issue:
The specs are not viable, the feats need a rework.
The fact you have to have a final feat boost Damage by 40% to make it balanced?
- Lets consider the GF final tier feat in Conqueror tree - This isnt a 40% dmg boost, it doubles your power, and even when I am running Profound Conqueror set (which stacks power) I go from a 20% damage boost from Power to a 37% damage boost from power. THis also scales based on guard meter.
SO, AT BEST its a 17% dmg boost... Compared to 40%?! Now, I am not advocating for "nerfs/buffs" I am MERELY pointing out the insanity of the NEED for a GWF rework NOW that you toned back our other feats....
ALL of this feedback/testing tells me one thing Crush.....
GWFs NEED feats like Deep Gash to make them viable. SO, in a true sincere effort to help you guys out I have compiled a list of IDEAS that may or may not be of value to you I have broken these up into the different TREES:
INSTIGATOR:
Tier 1) SOTS - Fine, leave it at 5% that makes sense to me.
Tier 1) Fleet Footed - The 4e says this just gives pure Run Speed. So, Make this a pure run speed % Something like 5% or even 8%.
Tier 3) Allied Opportunity SHOULD be - Mighty Leap and Not So Fast deal 50% more damage. Mighty Leap now PRONES targets hit with the AOE. Not so Fast slows targets by 30% and lasts .4/.8/1.2/1.6/2s longer.
Tier 3) Nimble Runner - Sprint and Charge grant 25% deflect chance (up from 10%) and you gain 10% more stamina recovery. This makes Sprint a viable defense now for Instigator.
Tier 4) Group Assault - ALL At Wills deal an additional 2/4/6/8/10% damage AND no longer lose damage based on number of targets hit. - This would be a significant DPS boost for PVE!
Tier 4) Crippling Strike - Boost this to 80% and 6 seconds.
Tier 5 (CAPSTONE) - Instigators Vengeance - This should be: Increase damage by 10% upon RECEIVING damage, stacks 3 times (30% boost - to compete with a 40% Dest capstone). Lasts 6 seconds (is refreshed upon receiving damage).
DESTROYER:
Assuming the current LIVE build
SENTINEL:
Tier 2) Powerful Challenge (This was some of the issue why Sents were OP in PVP) - Grants 15% Critical Severity and critical strikes deal an additional 25% Threat to marked targets.
Tier 3) Grudge Style - ALL at wills have a increased 5% chance to crit and generate an additional 25% threat.
Tier 3) Intimidation - This is worthless because the two encounters are worthless... Beef up the encounters and this will work.
Daring Shout, This should replicate Enforced Threat - AOE damager
Come and Get it, This needs to be a quick animation with BIG "pull" effects as well as maybe a 1 second Daze at the end for CC AS WELL AS a damager. (Because of the nature of 3 encounters, nobody slots utility encounters)
Tier 4) Master at Arms - This should be a damage bonus (Sents NEED it) Increases damage by 2% for each stack of weapon master - still gives 5AC. (10% dmg boost + 2.5% DR)
Tier 4) Defiance - Your DAILY powers deal an additional 10% damage and 25% more threat AND your defense is increased by 25% for 6 seconds.
Tier 5 (CAPSTONE) Sent Aegis - Increased Defense by 20% AND all incoming healing by 30% (has other synergies).
These are just IDEAS!
I think this would make the Instigator path attractive and viable - a little less damaging but more "opportunistic" with things like mighty leap prone, Sprinting more = high deflect. And the capstone beefing up damage nicely.
Sentinels get a little more damage boosters and alot of nice threat boosters.
This all then gives you the playing field to level out CWs a tad.
I really do not know why, during battles, there is this feeling that he's unstoppable is smaller, and it definitely is not a kind of collective delusion that I have died alot in preview.
weird ... but retreat here the misinformation.
"- Lets consider the end tier feat in GF Conqueror tree - This is not the 40% dmg boost, it doubles your power, and even when i am running Profound Conqueror set (Which stacks power) I go from a 20% damage boost from Power to 37% damage boost from power. THis Also scales based on scoring guard."
gf, conqueror or not, is not "unfettered torrent of rage and anger que deals a crushing amount of damage on the foe is Likely to Survive.". he is a defender, in its hegemonic function now.
Finally, the destroyer feets are VERY powerful , that no one disagrees. the problem is that the gwf itself is very weak, and as there is a fear around the sentinel ...
"Tier 3) Allied Opportunity SHOULD be - Mighty Leap and Not So Fast deal 50% more damage. Mighty Leap now PRONES targets hit with the AOE. Not so Fast slows targets by 30% and lasts .4/.8/1.2/1.6/2s longer."
know what would be cool? if not so fast would cause delay in the countdown of the enemy, equal to that enchant of cold ... can not remember the name.
ps:if the instigator turned a 'melee controler "that, instead of taking advantage of the logistics of distance, used speed, I definitely will roll another gwf.
This seems to be a pretty good balance between the two fighter classes. So now that the GWF has lost its utility and also isn't the clear-cut winner in damage any longer, you might want to think about adding a little bit more aggro to your group composition. And this shouldn't be done by buffing the Sentinel path, this should be done by inviting a GF.
There is also this huge problem that's called CW. These damage monsters make it unable to truly evaluate the abilities of tanks to hold aggro at the moment. I take every report of this and that player unable to hold aggro with a grain of salt. The other aggro magnet Split Shot is toned down a bit so this will certainly help tanks as well.
Aren't you being a little selfish? The GWF was never meant to be the aggro generator. That was the GF's job from the beginning. They are fixing it so that the GF is the only class that can generate aggro well (aside from the cw).