We need to stop comparing the DPS output with CWs. Yes, they play in their own league. But yes, the class will be changed in the future. I think it's not as clever to leave them unchanged in this Module, because it will worsen the situation for PVE, in which the viable classes are reduced to DC and CW. But overall GWFs are not supposed to hold ground with the overpowered CWs right now. Form a group without CWs and measure the performance of the remaining classes against each other
If I had to make an educated guess, then I'd think the next big update in between Module 3 and 4 will be a balancing update in which CWs are adressed. Just like they did with the PVP update in between Module 2 and 3. Again: Not the best way to do it, but it's on their agenda.
1 - nobody knows when the nerf comes to cw. even if this were my interests, I am a conservative person. I will not hold my hopes on hypothetical future.
2 - so I'll have the patience to accept the weak gwf as it is now, in live , has become a viable dps after years? (If you started playing in January, you're not aware that people were leaving partys with gwf.)
Summary: What you're saying is: have patience and wait 3 more months, or a year, or until the end of the game for perhaps the gwf again have a space. no chance.
ps:I never ask for nerf; I reported what was reported, taking as an example the cw now, is that I actually saw a gulf of difference and a decrease in gwf in all aspects. gwf down 10 levels.
roar; of course! maybe should try ibs ! or maybe equip a giant sword!
There are two wrongs in this game. The first is the cw community have got the nerf to gwf, regaining hegemony (why hegemony is considered balance I do not know). the second is that I can not speak swears in forum.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
1 - nobody knows when the nerf comes to cw. even if this were my interests, I am a conservative person. I will not hold my hopes on hypothetical future.
2 - so I'll have the patience to accept the weak gwf as it is now, in live , has become a viable dps after years? (If you started playing in January, you're not aware that people were leaving partys with gwf.)
Summary: What you're saying is: have patience and wait 3 more months, or a year, or until the end of the game for perhaps the gwf again have a space. no chance.
ps:I never ask for nerf; I reported what was reported, taking as an example the cw now, is that I actually saw a gulf of difference and a decrease in gwf in all aspects. gwf down 10 levels.
100% agree
Its feel like you have multiple negative lvl-s or multiple injury.
Feedback
K lets nerf GWF but pls buff somthing else in Insigniator and Sentinel too at least Agro.
I try different things in live . I changed some stones and companions after reached 9 k power, in live deap gash reached almost 100 % dmg so Critt 30k IBS do 30k DG dmg.
In IWD i do the almost same IBS dmg( bit more ) but only i do only 1200 DG dmg this is -96% dmg OMG before mod2 i think GWF DG was way more better also 9000 power = 1800 dmg not 1200 where is my missing 600 DMG?
Why we dont have agro?
Cuz we mark and hit the target with critt DG still continue the dmg why we try to avoid the add swarm .(we can have agro rigth now in LIVE)
In IWD we mark and hit the target with critt DG (but DG do only 4% dmg of live) so we cant hold the agro . (cuz agro is based on dmg ,no slam or any other skill can negate the lost dmg even full feated on threat generation)
So after i test the most things out i learned this .
GWF = GF Now both figther class are usless in pve ? I dont think this is a good idea.
(the younger sister became ugly too )
The only thing we can do in IWD Stack up HP ower HP and go pvp, even i will be forced to go pvp.
Cuz i dont want to lose my invest agan. I invested on my GWF more then 40kkk AD this is too much to leave it and use it only for daly log in and craft leadership.Some of us create the GWF after GF got the biggest nerf in game and we go sentinel not cuz was op in pvp cuz it was the best tank option.
I play multiple classes (I recently started a set of PVE/PVP TRs to complete my 'collection') since BETA and was very pleased with the GWF changes myself, knowing from which situation the class had come. "After years" is an exageration, but I can definitely feel you.
I share your thoughts on the overall situation, I think releasing the module knowing that PVE parties will consist of only CWs is absolutely staggering. All we have is gcrushs aussage that "CWs are looked into". The module is released May 13th, maybe they'll bring in CW changes after all if they think GWFs and HRs are properly balanced and don't need additional work.
Some tip during the waiting from a casual gwf: Try roar and/or malabog set and stay unstopable in mod3. Gwf dps will be tremendous...
I'm kinda interested in seeing data from AoW vs. Fabled because that argument has been brought up before. I have no problems whatsoever retaining full stacks of Destroyer's Purpose even without additional Determination building powers/set. I sadly don't own the full Fabled yet, so I have to rely on other sources that say the +10% flat DPS increase from AoW is still superior.
the saddest thing here is not the dominance of the cw; is so since I entered the game, and there is a strange thing that the interest remains here (crazy partner? I do not know . companies have this)
the sad thing is ... well, let's hope the new patch to see if this feedback thread had some purpose.
roar; of course! maybe should try ibs ! or maybe equip a giant sword!
There are two wrongs in this game. The first is the cw community have got the nerf to gwf, regaining hegemony (why hegemony is considered balance I do not know). the second is that I can not speak swears in forum.
The cw community?
The library contains only builds and encounter/rotation analysis!
Whishing nerf allways coming from others...
not told of the library. I referred to some players very committed to bringing the class down.
cite the examples do not make a difference. if a feedback thread for specific class did not positive difference, imagine sporadic posts around the forum.
Would you mind shedding some light on the matter of GWFs' damage output? What is your goal and are you satisfied as for what you achieved with the current PTR changes? I get the impression that the GWF community feels a bit left in the dark, not knowing what to further expect and where you guys see the GWF's future role - especially in late end game.
Thanks in advance.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited April 2014
Suggestion:
Instead
Feats: Deep Gash: This feat no longer gains additional damage from the power that applies it.
Feats: Deep Gash: This feat can no longer crit. This feat now applies a bleed that ticks for 4/8/12/16/20% of your Power (up from 3/6/9/12/15%).
Feats: Deep Gash: This power no longer ticks immediately upon application. New applications will not reset the tick timer. Additionally this DoT now lasts 6 seconds (up from 5). It still ticks 6 times total.
Just reduce the current dmg what we have in live to 45% like HR Split shoot or 50% .
To 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5% then its eq to the nerf what we got now .
I agree with some of you guys, how will tank now?
I dont have GWF but somone must replace the failed GF .
If the dmg is taken from Sent GWF how will tank adds?CW?
Or the CW is desinged to do this too when will this stop? Do the devs want to move the role of TR "Best single target dmg" to move it to CW too? I m consurn.
Look i am Executioner TR and i have zero problems with sent, it is actually my job to assasinate him out .I know this nerf come from PVP balance agan BUT.
Deep Gash is only problem for Perma TR .
Actually i dont post on forum this is my second post but i feel if this will continou i will not make CW just because he is the best in game, i better go off for a while and just log to craft until devs see the way back to the original purpose NW Pve .
So look some of us hou have no GWF dont want this change too lets take this as a consideration too pls . Sombody must be strong enugh to face the danger of add fest.
CW is designed to be top tank, AOE dps, single target dps, support and healer, for mod 4 they will delete all other classes from game
in mod 2 they made gf, tr and hr useless, in mod 3 they kill GWF, and once standard party will be 5cw nobody will need dc cause mobs will be dead on 0.02 sec or chain ccd
ppl are giving a lot of great suggestions how to fix it, but they add more useless stacks that dont matter because mobs are dead in 3 seconds, they have some weird stack fetish ? about everything they do add some stacks, boons, passives and so on
Feedback: Student of the Sword It feels useless now. Sure, the 45% defense reduction was too much, especially in PvP, but what we have now on preview is not solving anything. You can't just take off one of the most important class features. It's the only party buff GWF can provide. Could* sadly.
Nerfing it to 1/2/3/4/5% defense reduction per stack would be perfectly fine.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
I agree with some of you guys, how will tank now?
I dont have GWF but somone must replace the failed GF .
If the dmg is taken from Sent GWF how will tank adds?CW?
Or the CW is desinged to do this too when will this stop? Do the devs want to move the role of TR "Best single target dmg" to move it to CW too? I m consurn.
Look i am Executioner TR and i have zero problems with sent, it is actually my job to assasinate him out .I know this nerf come from PVP balance agan BUT.
Deep Gash is only problem for Perma TR .
Actually i dont post on forum this is my second post but i feel if this will continou i will not make CW just because he is the best in game, i better go off for a while and just log to craft until devs see the way back to the original purpose NW Pve .
So look some of us hou have no GWF dont want this change too lets take this as a consideration too pls . Sombody must be strong enugh to face the danger of add fest.
It is sad you feel this way ,ok this is free to play but no mmo shoud be like this, to log in only for crafting game money.
I have deep hope devs see this problem and they try to give back class roles ,but as long as they also lisen nerf threads they will keep continue the nerfing ,the way is now clear the only class unaffected by nerfs are CW .What do you think who starting nerf threads ?
The way i see there is only 1 roll missing from loot table the healer. I cant confim what devs have in plan for us , also i know many devs like cw play style , but even they need to realise after IWD with current patch list is nothing left for TR GF HR GWF in pve game play.
It is sad you feel this way ,ok this is free to play but no mmo shoud be like this, to log in only for crafting game money.
I have deep hope devs see this problem and they try to give back class roles ,but as long as they also lisen nerf threads they will keep continue the nerfing ,the way is now clear the only class unaffected by nerfs are CW .What do you think who starting nerf threads ?
The way i see there is only 1 roll missing from loot table the healer. I cant confim what devs have in plan for us , also i know many devs like cw play style , but even they need to realise after IWD with current patch list is nothing left for TR GF HR GWF in pve game play.
In module 4 they will nerf the CW then release the next class (most likely warlock imo) which will make up the damage nerf to CW, then nerf the warlock in module 5 because it will be doing too much damage.
Hey guys, we have a few more buffs coming soon for Great Weapon Fighters. The changes are listed below.
Powers:
Great Weapon Fighter: Battle Fury: Update the rank up tooltip to specify that this power increases in duration by 1s for each rank in the power. This is only a tooltip change.
Feats:
Great Weapon Fighter: Disciple of War: This feat now grants 25% of your Recovery and Armor Penetration as Power. (Was: Grants 25% of your Recovery as Armor Penetration)
Great Weapon Fighter: Executioner’s Style: This feat no longer has any interaction with Reaping Strike. This feat now also increases the damage of Sure Strike by 6/12/18/24/30% as the target’s health diminishes.
Great Weapon Fighter: Relentless Battle Fury: This feat now grants 10/20/30/40/50% (up from 5/10/15/20/25%) shorter cooldowns to Battle Fury, Takedown, and Roar. Additionally the damage of Roar and Takedown are increased by 5/10/15/20/25% and the duration of Battle Fury is increased by 5/10/15/20/25%. These powers no longer grant Relentless (ignore an additional 1/2/3/4/5% of a target’s resistance).
Great Weapon Fighter: Focused Destroyer: This feat now increases the damage bonus of Destroyer by .7/1.4/2.1/2.8/3.5% (up from .5/1/1.5/2/2.5%) per stack.
Hey guys, we have a few more buffs coming soon for Great Weapon Fighters. The changes are listed below.
Powers:
Great Weapon Fighter: Battle Fury: Update the rank up tooltip to specify that this power increases in duration by 1s for each rank in the power. This is only a tooltip change.
Feats:
Great Weapon Fighter: Disciple of War: This feat now grants 25% of your Recovery and Armor Penetration as Power. (Was: Grants 25% of your Recovery as Armor Penetration)
Great Weapon Fighter: Executioner’s Style: This feat no longer has any interaction with Reaping Strike. This feat now also increases the damage of Sure Strike by 6/12/18/24/30% as the target’s health diminishes.
Great Weapon Fighter: Relentless Battle Fury: This feat now grants 10/20/30/40/50% (up from 5/10/15/20/25%) shorter cooldowns to Battle Fury, Takedown, and Roar. Additionally the damage of Roar and Takedown are increased by 5/10/15/20/25% and the duration of Battle Fury is increased by 5/10/15/20/25%. These powers no longer grant Relentless (ignore an additional 1/2/3/4/5% of a target’s resistance).
Great Weapon Fighter: Focused Destroyer: This feat now increases the damage bonus of Destroyer by .7/1.4/2.1/2.8/3.5% (up from .5/1/1.5/2/2.5%) per stack.
Hey guys, we have a few more buffs coming soon for Great Weapon Fighters. The changes are listed below.
Powers:
Great Weapon Fighter: Battle Fury: Update the rank up tooltip to specify that this power increases in duration by 1s for each rank in the power. This is only a tooltip change.
Feats:
Great Weapon Fighter: Disciple of War: This feat now grants 25% of your Recovery and Armor Penetration as Power. (Was: Grants 25% of your Recovery as Armor Penetration) Will this factor in bonus recovery like the Avatar of War set effect? It currently doesn't as far as I know but I'm just curious if it will now.
Great Weapon Fighter: Executioner’s Style: This feat no longer has any interaction with Reaping Strike. This feat now also increases the damage of Sure Strike by 6/12/18/24/30% as the target’s health diminishes. Maybe you can swap the Sure Strike damage bonus to Wicked Strike?
Great Weapon Fighter: Relentless Battle Fury: This feat now grants 10/20/30/40/50% (up from 5/10/15/20/25%) shorter cooldowns to Battle Fury, Takedown, and Roar. Additionally the damage of Roar and Takedown are increased by 5/10/15/20/25% and the duration of Battle Fury is increased by 5/10/15/20/25%. These powers no longer grant Relentless (ignore an additional 1/2/3/4/5% of a target’s resistance).
Great Weapon Fighter: Focused Destroyer: This feat now increases the damage bonus of Destroyer by .7/1.4/2.1/2.8/3.5% (up from .5/1/1.5/2/2.5%) per stack.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Is this expected for this week or next week?
Also, I honestly think you should start buffing the TR/GF (I'm not mentioning HR simply because they are already getting tweaks and they would mention ideas in their thread) too so they have better spots in parties. As it stands (I have no math to back this up, someone else will run the numbers and speak up about it later I'm sure) this will probably keep a decent GWF/CW party setup, but it still excludes the TR/GF from parties for PvE at end game. Right now, the Destroyer GWF can probably match or do more single target than a TR (no math to back this up, but it really appears that it might be possible) so why would you bother bringing a TR? GF isn't needed at all for most end game parties, but I think to fix the GF you would need to either rework all of the current dungeons to make them require a tank or make all future dungeons/content factor in a requirement for tanks.
For example: add 1 shot mobs with fast attacks and movement added into the mix that cannot be controlled; you need a tank to hold the aggro to not die and wipe. You cannot run from them, they will always catch up to you.
Another note: Could you give some love to instigator so that it can also be a viable path. Maybe you can make that a party buffing and enemy debuffing feat tree (keep all of the good feats deeper in with very basic stuff as the first 4 choices) while destroyer is pure damage and sentinel is the tank path (maybe buff aggro generation for this feat tree).
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
Hey guys, we have a few more buffs coming soon for Great Weapon Fighters. The changes are listed below.
Powers:
Great Weapon Fighter: Battle Fury: Update the rank up tooltip to specify that this power increases in duration by 1s for each rank in the power. This is only a tooltip change.
Feats:
Great Weapon Fighter: Disciple of War: This feat now grants 25% of your Recovery and Armor Penetration as Power. (Was: Grants 25% of your Recovery as Armor Penetration)
Great Weapon Fighter: Executioner’s Style: This feat no longer has any interaction with Reaping Strike. This feat now also increases the damage of Sure Strike by 6/12/18/24/30% as the target’s health diminishes.
Great Weapon Fighter: Relentless Battle Fury: This feat now grants 10/20/30/40/50% (up from 5/10/15/20/25%) shorter cooldowns to Battle Fury, Takedown, and Roar. Additionally the damage of Roar and Takedown are increased by 5/10/15/20/25% and the duration of Battle Fury is increased by 5/10/15/20/25%. These powers no longer grant Relentless (ignore an additional 1/2/3/4/5% of a target’s resistance).
Great Weapon Fighter: Focused Destroyer: This feat now increases the damage bonus of Destroyer by .7/1.4/2.1/2.8/3.5% (up from .5/1/1.5/2/2.5%) per stack.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Well I am happy to see we can now deal dmg as Destroyer but our oweral problem is THE DESTROYER will take the role of the TR Best single taget dmg away .
And in NW we will not have 1 Real Tank Class Cuz after DG nerf both GWF sentinel and GF cannot tank out the dmg of CW .
Even if we take Disciple of War as Sentinel "just a hint i have 4000 recovery i gain 1000 power its only 6% more dmg with DG -96% nerf compensation is only 6 % so its still -90 % Dmg and i dont think GWF Destroyer can survive the add fest and get the agro without any agro generation skill or feat Mark alone is not enugh.
+ Great Weapon Fighter: Relentless Battle Fury: This feat now grants 10/20/30/40/50% (up from 5/10/15/20/25%) shorter cooldowns to Battle Fury, Takedown, and Roar. Additionally the damage of Roar and Takedown are increased by 5/10/15/20/25% and the duration of Battle Fury is increased by 5/10/15/20/25%. These powers no longer grant Relentless (ignore an additional 1/2/3/4/5% of a target’s resistance). -5% DMG so oweral looks fancy but its not i only see 4% more DMG if somone have 4000 recovery and Destroyer feated +Focused destroyer .If somone have only 2000 recovery he gain +1% dmg oweral this is nothing.
Also i dont know if devs awear of it but . Bug in live :Battle Fury dont generate any Acion point and dont increase the promised dmg.
Well I am happy to see we can now deal dmg as Destroyer but our oweral problem is THE DESTROYER will take the role of the TR Best single taget dmg away .
And in NW we will not have 1 Real Tank Class Cuz after DG nerf both GWF sentinel and GF cannot tank out the dmg of CW .
Even if we take Disciple of War as Sentinel "just a hint i have 4000 recovery i gain 1000 power its only 6% more dmg with DG -96% nerf compensation is only 6 % so its still -90 % Dmg and i dont think GWF Destroyer can survive the add fest and get the agro without any agro generation skill or feat Mark alone is not enugh.
+ Great Weapon Fighter: Relentless Battle Fury: This feat now grants 10/20/30/40/50% (up from 5/10/15/20/25%) shorter cooldowns to Battle Fury, Takedown, and Roar. Additionally the damage of Roar and Takedown are increased by 5/10/15/20/25% and the duration of Battle Fury is increased by 5/10/15/20/25%. These powers no longer grant Relentless (ignore an additional 1/2/3/4/5% of a target’s resistance). -5% DMG so oweral looks fancy but its not i only see 4% more DMG if somone have 4000 recovery and Destroyer feated +Focused destroyer .If somone have only 2000 recovery he gain +1% dmg oweral this is nothing.
Also i dont know if devs awear of it but . Bug in live :Battle Fury dont generate any Acion point and dont increase the promised dmg.
Its 25% of recovery + ArP for the power boost.
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2014
I'm thinking that GWF is maybe getting too many buffs now. Even without considering the current broken Deep Gash on Live, Destroyers (I play one) are doing alright compared to other classes (once HR splitshot change goes through and CWs get toned down).
The issue I see with overbuffing a class (or class spec), is that you need to then compensate by buffing other classes (or class specs) as well, while the content has been mostly unchanged and becomes ever more trivial to complete.
Some things I want to note on the proposed changes:
Rather than disassociating Executioner's Style from Reaping Strike, it may be a better idea to make Reaping Strike actually useful/usable. I don't know anyone who seriously uses that Power at present.
Disciple of War: GWFs generally have few points in Armor Penetration because the CON stat grants (effective) Armor Penetration. Generally only GWFs that went STR/DEX and ignored CON would benefit from this. So it seems to force a certain starting roll onto the player to make this feat useful.
Focused Destroyer: I actually liked the old feat which allowed you to build Destroyer stacks while hitting a single target. We have Steel Blitz primarily for multi target already and which is actually quite a poor feature (damage and proc wise). Maybe buff that in a Paragon feat instead of changing Focused Destroyer? To me, Instigator is more of a multi-target GWF and Destroyer more of a single target GWF, considering the Wicked Strike buff feat on the Instigator tree.
Relentless Battle Fury: Generally a good change, though 50% shorter cooldown AND additional bonuses sounds like overkill to me. Maybe try 35% shorter cooldowns with the other changes.
Lastly, I still don't see any mention of fixing the bug whereby Iron Vanguard powers on GWF deal the sam %WeaponDamage as they would on a GF (i.e. deal double their intended damage) and vice versa for GF (deals half the intended damage). That is one major issue that maks IV GWF too viable at present, especially as Wicked Strike is still exploitable (which needs fixing too)
Great Weapon Fighter: Disciple of War: This feat now grants 25% of your Recovery and Armor Penetration as Power. (Was: Grants 25% of your Recovery as Armor Penetration)
1.As i see from 4000 recovery you will gain 1000 power and armor pen.
But its not clear the second version is .
2.You gain from 4000 recovery and 2000 armor pen 1500 power .
But i think gentlemancrush pointed on version 1 .
But i am not sure about it .
I'm thinking that GWF is maybe getting too many buffs now. Even without considering the current broken Deep Gash on Live, Destroyers (I play one) are doing alright compared to other classes (once HR splitshot change goes through and CWs get toned down).
The issue I see with overbuffing a class (or class spec), is that you need to then compensate by buffing other classes (or class specs) as well, while the content has been mostly unchanged and becomes ever more trivial to complete.
Some things I want to note on the proposed changes:
Rather than disassociating Executioner's Style from Reaping Strike, it may be a better idea to make Reaping Strike actually useful/usable. I don't know anyone who seriously uses that Power at present.
Disciple of War: GWFs generally have few points in Armor Penetration because the CON stat grants (effective) Armor Penetration. Generally only GWFs that went STR/DEX and ignored CON would benefit from this. So it seems to force a certain starting roll onto the player to make this feat useful.
Focused Destroyer: I actually liked the old feat which allowed you to build Destroyer stacks while hitting a single target. We have Steel Blitz primarily for multi target already and which is actually quite a poor feature (damage and proc wise). Maybe buff that in a Paragon feat instead of changing Focused Destroyer? To me, Instigator is more of a multi-target GWF and Destroyer more of a single target GWF, considering the Wicked Strike buff feat on the Instigator tree.
Relentless Battle Fury: Generally a good change, though 50% shorter cooldown AND additional bonuses sounds like overkill to me. Maybe try 35% shorter cooldowns with the other changes.
Lastly, I still don't see any mention of fixing the bug whereby Iron Vanguard powers on GWF deal the sam %WeaponDamage as they would on a GF (i.e. deal double their intended damage) and vice versa for GF (deals half the intended damage). That is one major issue that maks IV GWF too viable at present, especially as Wicked Strike is still exploitable (which needs fixing too)
If you dont see this the swordmaster will out dps the Iron Vanguard . In single taget dmg much more.
Comments
We need to stop comparing the DPS output with CWs. Yes, they play in their own league. But yes, the class will be changed in the future. I think it's not as clever to leave them unchanged in this Module, because it will worsen the situation for PVE, in which the viable classes are reduced to DC and CW. But overall GWFs are not supposed to hold ground with the overpowered CWs right now. Form a group without CWs and measure the performance of the remaining classes against each other
If I had to make an educated guess, then I'd think the next big update in between Module 3 and 4 will be a balancing update in which CWs are adressed. Just like they did with the PVP update in between Module 2 and 3. Again: Not the best way to do it, but it's on their agenda.
1 - nobody knows when the nerf comes to cw. even if this were my interests, I am a conservative person. I will not hold my hopes on hypothetical future.
2 - so I'll have the patience to accept the weak gwf as it is now, in live , has become a viable dps after years? (If you started playing in January, you're not aware that people were leaving partys with gwf.)
Summary: What you're saying is: have patience and wait 3 more months, or a year, or until the end of the game for perhaps the gwf again have a space. no chance.
ps:I never ask for nerf; I reported what was reported, taking as an example the cw now, is that I actually saw a gulf of difference and a decrease in gwf in all aspects. gwf down 10 levels.
Some tip during the waiting from a casual gwf: Try roar and/or malabog set and stay unstopable in mod3. Gwf dps will be tremendous...
There are two wrongs in this game. The first is the cw community have got the nerf to gwf, regaining hegemony (why hegemony is considered balance I do not know). the second is that I can not speak swears in forum.
100% agree
Its feel like you have multiple negative lvl-s or multiple injury.
Feedback
K lets nerf GWF but pls buff somthing else in Insigniator and Sentinel too at least Agro.
I try different things in live . I changed some stones and companions after reached 9 k power, in live deap gash reached almost 100 % dmg so Critt 30k IBS do 30k DG dmg.
In IWD i do the almost same IBS dmg( bit more ) but only i do only 1200 DG dmg this is -96% dmg OMG before mod2 i think GWF DG was way more better also 9000 power = 1800 dmg not 1200 where is my missing 600 DMG?
Why we dont have agro?
Cuz we mark and hit the target with critt DG still continue the dmg why we try to avoid the add swarm .(we can have agro rigth now in LIVE)
In IWD we mark and hit the target with critt DG (but DG do only 4% dmg of live) so we cant hold the agro . (cuz agro is based on dmg ,no slam or any other skill can negate the lost dmg even full feated on threat generation)
So after i test the most things out i learned this .
GWF = GF Now both figther class are usless in pve ? I dont think this is a good idea.
(the younger sister became ugly too
The only thing we can do in IWD Stack up HP ower HP and go pvp, even i will be forced to go pvp.
Cuz i dont want to lose my invest agan. I invested on my GWF more then 40kkk AD this is too much to leave it and use it only for daly log in and craft leadership.Some of us create the GWF after GF got the biggest nerf in game and we go sentinel not cuz was op in pvp cuz it was the best tank option.
I share your thoughts on the overall situation, I think releasing the module knowing that PVE parties will consist of only CWs is absolutely staggering. All we have is gcrushs aussage that "CWs are looked into". The module is released May 13th, maybe they'll bring in CW changes after all if they think GWFs and HRs are properly balanced and don't need additional work.
I'm kinda interested in seeing data from AoW vs. Fabled because that argument has been brought up before. I have no problems whatsoever retaining full stacks of Destroyer's Purpose even without additional Determination building powers/set. I sadly don't own the full Fabled yet, so I have to rely on other sources that say the +10% flat DPS increase from AoW is still superior.
the sad thing is ... well, let's hope the new patch to see if this feedback thread had some purpose.
The cw community?
The library contains only builds and encounter/rotation analysis!
Whishing nerf allways coming from others...
cite the examples do not make a difference. if a feedback thread for specific class did not positive difference, imagine sporadic posts around the forum.
they might aswell remove every class that doesnt have "wizard" in its name, wouldnt make much difference in speed oriented parties
5cw with lifesteal -> new meta, would have been smth like that before mod 2 if they didnt need tr's to bug the hell out of dungeons
Would you mind shedding some light on the matter of GWFs' damage output? What is your goal and are you satisfied as for what you achieved with the current PTR changes? I get the impression that the GWF community feels a bit left in the dark, not knowing what to further expect and where you guys see the GWF's future role - especially in late end game.
Thanks in advance.
Instead
Feats: Deep Gash: This feat no longer gains additional damage from the power that applies it.
Feats: Deep Gash: This feat can no longer crit. This feat now applies a bleed that ticks for 4/8/12/16/20% of your Power (up from 3/6/9/12/15%).
Feats: Deep Gash: This power no longer ticks immediately upon application. New applications will not reset the tick timer. Additionally this DoT now lasts 6 seconds (up from 5). It still ticks 6 times total.
Just reduce the current dmg what we have in live to 45% like HR Split shoot or 50% .
To 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5% then its eq to the nerf what we got now .
I dont have GWF but somone must replace the failed GF .
If the dmg is taken from Sent GWF how will tank adds?CW?
Or the CW is desinged to do this too when will this stop? Do the devs want to move the role of TR "Best single target dmg" to move it to CW too? I m consurn.
Look i am Executioner TR and i have zero problems with sent, it is actually my job to assasinate him out .I know this nerf come from PVP balance agan BUT.
Deep Gash is only problem for Perma TR .
Actually i dont post on forum this is my second post but i feel if this will continou i will not make CW just because he is the best in game, i better go off for a while and just log to craft until devs see the way back to the original purpose NW Pve .
So look some of us hou have no GWF dont want this change too lets take this as a consideration too pls . Sombody must be strong enugh to face the danger of add fest.
in mod 2 they made gf, tr and hr useless, in mod 3 they kill GWF, and once standard party will be 5cw nobody will need dc cause mobs will be dead on 0.02 sec or chain ccd
ppl are giving a lot of great suggestions how to fix it, but they add more useless stacks that dont matter because mobs are dead in 3 seconds, they have some weird stack fetish ? about everything they do add some stacks, boons, passives and so on
It feels useless now. Sure, the 45% defense reduction was too much, especially in PvP, but what we have now on preview is not solving anything. You can't just take off one of the most important class features. It's the only party buff GWF can provide. Could* sadly.
Nerfing it to 1/2/3/4/5% defense reduction per stack would be perfectly fine.
It is sad you feel this way ,ok this is free to play but no mmo shoud be like this, to log in only for crafting game money.
I have deep hope devs see this problem and they try to give back class roles ,but as long as they also lisen nerf threads they will keep continue the nerfing ,the way is now clear the only class unaffected by nerfs are CW .What do you think who starting nerf threads ?
The way i see there is only 1 roll missing from loot table the healer. I cant confim what devs have in plan for us , also i know many devs like cw play style , but even they need to realise after IWD with current patch list is nothing left for TR GF HR GWF in pve game play.
In module 4 they will nerf the CW then release the next class (most likely warlock imo) which will make up the damage nerf to CW, then nerf the warlock in module 5 because it will be doing too much damage.
Powers:
Great Weapon Fighter: Battle Fury: Update the rank up tooltip to specify that this power increases in duration by 1s for each rank in the power. This is only a tooltip change.
Feats:
Great Weapon Fighter: Disciple of War: This feat now grants 25% of your Recovery and Armor Penetration as Power. (Was: Grants 25% of your Recovery as Armor Penetration)
Great Weapon Fighter: Executioner’s Style: This feat no longer has any interaction with Reaping Strike. This feat now also increases the damage of Sure Strike by 6/12/18/24/30% as the target’s health diminishes.
Great Weapon Fighter: Relentless Battle Fury: This feat now grants 10/20/30/40/50% (up from 5/10/15/20/25%) shorter cooldowns to Battle Fury, Takedown, and Roar. Additionally the damage of Roar and Takedown are increased by 5/10/15/20/25% and the duration of Battle Fury is increased by 5/10/15/20/25%. These powers no longer grant Relentless (ignore an additional 1/2/3/4/5% of a target’s resistance).
Great Weapon Fighter: Focused Destroyer: This feat now increases the damage bonus of Destroyer by .7/1.4/2.1/2.8/3.5% (up from .5/1/1.5/2/2.5%) per stack.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Is this expected for this week or next week?
Also, I honestly think you should start buffing the TR/GF (I'm not mentioning HR simply because they are already getting tweaks and they would mention ideas in their thread) too so they have better spots in parties. As it stands (I have no math to back this up, someone else will run the numbers and speak up about it later I'm sure) this will probably keep a decent GWF/CW party setup, but it still excludes the TR/GF from parties for PvE at end game. Right now, the Destroyer GWF can probably match or do more single target than a TR (no math to back this up, but it really appears that it might be possible) so why would you bother bringing a TR? GF isn't needed at all for most end game parties, but I think to fix the GF you would need to either rework all of the current dungeons to make them require a tank or make all future dungeons/content factor in a requirement for tanks.
For example: add 1 shot mobs with fast attacks and movement added into the mix that cannot be controlled; you need a tank to hold the aggro to not die and wipe. You cannot run from them, they will always catch up to you.
Another note: Could you give some love to instigator so that it can also be a viable path. Maybe you can make that a party buffing and enemy debuffing feat tree (keep all of the good feats deeper in with very basic stuff as the first 4 choices) while destroyer is pure damage and sentinel is the tank path (maybe buff aggro generation for this feat tree).
Well I am happy to see we can now deal dmg as Destroyer but our oweral problem is THE DESTROYER will take the role of the TR Best single taget dmg away .
And in NW we will not have 1 Real Tank Class Cuz after DG nerf both GWF sentinel and GF cannot tank out the dmg of CW .
Even if we take Disciple of War as Sentinel "just a hint i have 4000 recovery i gain 1000 power its only 6% more dmg with DG -96% nerf compensation is only 6 % so its still -90 % Dmg and i dont think GWF Destroyer can survive the add fest and get the agro without any agro generation skill or feat Mark alone is not enugh.
+ Great Weapon Fighter: Relentless Battle Fury: This feat now grants 10/20/30/40/50% (up from 5/10/15/20/25%) shorter cooldowns to Battle Fury, Takedown, and Roar. Additionally the damage of Roar and Takedown are increased by 5/10/15/20/25% and the duration of Battle Fury is increased by 5/10/15/20/25%. These powers no longer grant Relentless (ignore an additional 1/2/3/4/5% of a target’s resistance). -5% DMG so oweral looks fancy but its not i only see 4% more DMG if somone have 4000 recovery and Destroyer feated +Focused destroyer .If somone have only 2000 recovery he gain +1% dmg oweral this is nothing.
Also i dont know if devs awear of it but .
Bug in live :Battle Fury dont generate any Acion point and dont increase the promised dmg.
Its 25% of recovery + ArP for the power boost.
The issue I see with overbuffing a class (or class spec), is that you need to then compensate by buffing other classes (or class specs) as well, while the content has been mostly unchanged and becomes ever more trivial to complete.
Some things I want to note on the proposed changes:
Rather than disassociating Executioner's Style from Reaping Strike, it may be a better idea to make Reaping Strike actually useful/usable. I don't know anyone who seriously uses that Power at present.
Disciple of War: GWFs generally have few points in Armor Penetration because the CON stat grants (effective) Armor Penetration. Generally only GWFs that went STR/DEX and ignored CON would benefit from this. So it seems to force a certain starting roll onto the player to make this feat useful.
Focused Destroyer: I actually liked the old feat which allowed you to build Destroyer stacks while hitting a single target. We have Steel Blitz primarily for multi target already and which is actually quite a poor feature (damage and proc wise). Maybe buff that in a Paragon feat instead of changing Focused Destroyer? To me, Instigator is more of a multi-target GWF and Destroyer more of a single target GWF, considering the Wicked Strike buff feat on the Instigator tree.
Relentless Battle Fury: Generally a good change, though 50% shorter cooldown AND additional bonuses sounds like overkill to me. Maybe try 35% shorter cooldowns with the other changes.
Lastly, I still don't see any mention of fixing the bug whereby Iron Vanguard powers on GWF deal the sam %WeaponDamage as they would on a GF (i.e. deal double their intended damage) and vice versa for GF (deals half the intended damage). That is one major issue that maks IV GWF too viable at present, especially as Wicked Strike is still exploitable (which needs fixing too)
Great Weapon Fighter: Disciple of War: This feat now grants 25% of your Recovery and Armor Penetration as Power. (Was: Grants 25% of your Recovery as Armor Penetration)
1.As i see from 4000 recovery you will gain 1000 power and armor pen.
But its not clear the second version is .
2.You gain from 4000 recovery and 2000 armor pen 1500 power .
But i think gentlemancrush pointed on version 1 .
But i am not sure about it .
If you dont see this the swordmaster will out dps the Iron Vanguard . In single taget dmg much more.