once the single target oriented classes start doing at least 70~80 % dmg of aoe classes(up from 30~50%) and cw is fixed to either do high dmg or cc(not both at same time) they will be viable since boss part is more important. the new dungeons are more single target friendly than the old ones.
and number of ppl you can get in party is limited so you cant just "take more cw" cause there are already 4 or 5 of them in the party
once the single target oriented classes start doing at least 70~80 % dmg of aoe classes(up from 30~50%) and cw is fixed to either do high dmg or cc(not both at same time) they will be viable since boss part is more important. the new dungeons are more single target friendly than the old ones.
and number of ppl you can get in party is limited so you cant just "take more cw" cause there are already 4 or 5 of them in the party
So what your saying is:
Nerf GWF/CWs to deal less damage, NOW single targets deal 70% of the damage AOE classes deal and now that CWs either do damage or CC not both that fixes the isssue?
The problem with this is, the new group comp will have 3 CWs - 1 for CC 2 for DPS, 1 TR for solo DPS and 1 DC.
They need to introduce mobs that MUST be tanked or it will wipe the group.
The issue is the tanks in this game just flat out suck for tanking in PVE...
Gwf with little damage volume = kick. enough to see the class that was kicking. until November this was the reality. ... or mimimi "run with the guild, I have no problem playing with my friends and doing dps against draco using my gwf 398673498673486k gs while my friend cw 3986739984674867k gs controls and kills everything with a breath. "
As the dps and not the debuff which gave a satisfactory position for the class, ok. can remove this additional function. but the gwf damage is not the key to imbalance. is a need for the class.
ps: the controversy over the pvp is unknown, so there is no reason to have anchors now.
then, there is not rational or reason for not nerf the class to be the key to balance. ie reverse the order of the solution. the imbalance in pve embraces and transcends the current condition of the class.
do not know if I report as a bug or just curiosity. sequent damage from hits are taking more damage is intentional?... is not bad lose cancelation in this terms...
They need to introduce mobs that MUST be tanked or it will wipe the group.
The issue is the tanks in this game just flat out suck for tanking in PVE...
I couldnt agree more with this. Strongs that have an anti-magic shell around them at about a 100' ft radius in which no spells can be cast is one good one. Mobs that do massive kickback when they take damage- like 300% kickback- would require low damage dealing high hp tanky characters to slowly bring them down. There are so many options.
The dungeons have one mechanic dump mobs on you. Cryptic is not going to go back and fix every dungeon and skirmish in the game so AE damage dealers will always be the most desirable class.
The solution is not nerf AE damage dealers its give the other classes some AE damage skills.
HRs were desirable for split shot, with the nerf they should get some others encounter abilities that do good AE damage. Traps or have thorn ward hit all targets in area ect.
TRs would be easy to fix. make path of blades hit all targets in area or other AE skills maybe poison cloud, fan of blades, caltrops anything. Give them decent AE dps and then they could switch to single target for bosses. this would make TRs desirable in grps.
Nerfing a class doesnt make other classes better and more desirable. Giving a class useful skills that help a grp, makes a class more desirable.
I couldnt agree more with this. Strongs that have an anti-magic shell around them at about a 100' ft radius in which no spells can be cast is one good one. Mobs that do massive kickback when they take damage- like 300% kickback- would require low damage dealing high hp tanky characters to slowly bring them down. There are so many options.
Another thing that would be interesting is "spell reflect" mobs. That during some "animation" are immune and actually reflect back any spells cast on them - this would make melee/physical damage more appealing in groups AND cause CWs to have to really watch out in PVE.
I dont mind CWs having amazing AOE damage, but when the entire PVE gameplay becomes CW or GTFO for PVE it really ruins the game...
I have alot of pvp buddies who rolled PVE CWs just to farm gear for their PVP toons because it is WAY more efficient then having to play their own class in PVE.... This just seems silly to me.
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silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
The problem with this is, the new group comp will have 3 CWs - 1 for CC 2 for DPS, 1 TR for solo DPS and 1 DC.
The issue is the tanks in this game just flat out suck for tanking in PVE...
Actually..... the TR still won't get anywhere. They don't do their eye popping damage face tanking things... They need to strike from flanking position.
The Tank(GF)/Rogue combo is what allows them to be able to do just eye popping numbers of Damage. They need that combat advantage and someone to hold the mob's attention...
No tank... no rogue, he drops off the map as that is the combo for excellent single target damage... but being that nothing needs tanking and there are few if any Single Target mobs.... no tank... no rogue.
CWs combine well with GWFs because the both of them can massacre mass mobs, and the GWF fills in the holes of the CW class very well. Its their nich. Its why the two are such a good combo togather in these dungeons as they are AoE damagers by nature, one covers one spectrum, the other, covers the other side of the spectrum. The GWF stuns, prones, bleeds, slows enemies the same way the CW does... just on a smaller scale and much shorter area of effect, but he's also stronger on Single Target mobs.
All of them are tools in an Arsenal to do a job..... but if there's only one job to do... then... no matter how much you nerf, one pair OR BUFF the other... one team is still just as USELESS as before, and becomes even MORE unwanted..... because now it takes more of ONE side of the OTHER team to do the job they were designed to do in the first place.
So... one pair gets squeezed out.
EDIT: Because the fighter class is depended on by different sides of the equasion.... I personally believe they should just fold the GWF and GW into one class called Fighter with the ability to swap out and specialize in either weapon set to flex and adapt to whatever is needed in any given dungeon. So the fighter could do either job as needed depending on the team they draw.
Actually..... the TR still won't get anywhere. They don't do their eye popping damage face tanking things... They need to strike from flanking position.
The Tank(GF)/Rogue combo is what allows them to be able to do just eye popping numbers of Damage. They need that combat advantage and someone to hold the mob's attention...
No tank... no rogue, he drops off the map as that is the combo for excellent single target damage... but being that nothing needs tanking and there are few if any Single Target mobs.... no tank... no rogue.
CWs combine well with GWFs because the both of them can massacre mass mobs, and the GWF fills in the holes of the CW class very well. Its their nich. Its why the two are such a good combo togather in these dungeons as they are AoE damagers by nature, one covers one spectrum, the other, covers the other side of the spectrum. The GWF stuns, prones, bleeds, slows enemies the same way the CW does... just on a smaller scale and much shorter area of effect, but he's also stronger on Single Target mobs.
All of them are tools in an Arsenal to do a job..... but if there's only one job to do... then... no matter how much you nerf, one pair OR BUFF the other... one team is still just as USELESS as before, and becomes even MORE unwanted..... because now it takes more of ONE side of the OTHER team to do the job they were designed to do in the first place.
So... one pair gets squeezed out.
EDIT: Because the fighter class is depended on by different sides of the equasion.... I personally believe they should just fold the GWF and GW into one class called Fighter with the ability to swap out and specialize in either weapon set to flex and adapt to whatever is needed in any given dungeon. So the fighter could do either job as needed depending on the team they draw.
Well what do you propose they do?
They arent gonna go back and re-work existing stuff... So their only option is to try and pretend to balance PVE gameplay with changes to classes....
The only things I can think of are to nerf CW PVE damage but give them amazing aoe control - this may allow for GWFsand HRs to enter the picture as the AOE damage while the CW AOE controls.
This still leaves you without needing a tank and without TRs beeing needed for solo dps...
I mean like you said, when everything is AOE - its hard to make people bring groups of diversity
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silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
The only things I can think of are to nerf CW PVE damage but give them amazing aoe control - this may allow for GWFsand HRs to enter the picture as the AOE damage while the CW AOE controls.
Won't work, we don't have anything to build off of in that.
We've either got Single Target control powers, or AoE damage... we do not have single target damage or AoE control. Our only AoE control is about the same as yours on the GWF side. Basically we've got one AoE damage spell with knockdown, one with Stun, and one with Slow and only half the CWs have the build for. What we really do is debuff the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of the mobs for you.
Those components don't last much longer than yours as a GWF. What we do, is AoE damage things until we can build UP to a single AoE control spell in our Daily you know as Singularity that's how it really works.
That's the reality of the actual class. When we combine our abilities with yours as a GWF, togather the damage and your prones, knockdowns, and your damage we combine to just slaughter Mass Mobs.
That's really all we've got. In reality we're no more a controller than you are as a GWF.
You would have to implement an entirely new class to get that.
I like your ideas concerning mob changes. But in reality all they have to do in the dungeons is make actual single target tankable mobs that need to be DPSd down rather than burned. One example right off the Bat is the Gelatanous Cubes in VT. Everytime I run that one the Cubes make short work of any mage in range because all we have is our AoEs slotted
..... but the GWFs seem to be able to wipe them out with out problems, thus covering our little known weaknesses as CWs.
Actually..... the TR still won't get anywhere. They don't do their eye popping damage face tanking things... They need to strike from flanking position.
The Tank(GF)/Rogue combo is what allows them to be able to do just eye popping numbers of Damage. They need that combat advantage and someone to hold the mob's attention...
No tank... no rogue, he drops off the map as that is the combo for excellent single target damage... but being that nothing needs tanking and there are few if any Single Target mobs.... no tank... no rogue.
i always thought guardians were a hindrance for rogues since they usually aoe aggro and block the bosses line-of-sight (sometimes even having mobs with aoe stuns on them + the boss). otherwise, rogues are able to do just fine tanking themselves. it may require more dodging but that's about it.
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silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
i always thought guardians were a hindrance for rogues since they usually aoe aggro and block the bosses line-of-sight (sometimes even having mobs with aoe stuns on them + the boss). otherwise, rogues are able to do just fine tanking themselves. it may require more dodging but that's about it.
Actually that's not the issue, the Rogue is a striker a single target damager.
....For the Rogue to do eye popping numbers of damage... he needs sustained damage on a single target and to be in a flanking position to allow combat advantage.
The Rogue cannot achieve this without someone holding the mob's attention. Because the moment he has the Mobs attention he can no longer do sustained damage as he has to dodge a lot and on top of that he loses his key combat advantage damage.
So... he loses his DPS, and can't do his job properly.
The Rogue isn't a straight on fighter... yeah here he can do it, but the way he does his eye popping damage numbers is if someone else has the Mob's attention... ergo... a tank. The Tank/Rogue combination increases his damage markedly and allows him to actually do his job of single target damager.
Minus that, it drops sharply. No tank... no rogue eye popping damage. But being that there's few to no single target mobs to tank in the first place.... the rogue has no role anymore or even any job. Neither tanks.... nor rogues do.
All of this gets negated because there's no single target mobs to apply the Tank/Rogue tactical combo on, relegating the both of them to uselessness. They're both actually very good at their job... there's just NO JOB FOR THEM TO ACTUALLY DO and there's not going to be even if GWFs are nerfed.
Because there's nothing to use a rogue on in the first place, just a ton of mass mobs. SO this was ALL FOR NOTHING and won't achieve a **** thing because... as usual, the devs completely missed the point thinking that Rogues and GWFs were somehow related damage wise... they're not and never were. They're used for two totally different purposes so one doesn't affect the other.
BUT... it DOES affect the CWs natural partner for mass mob clearing.
This is an all-class discussion? Then, time to hear the DC and HR opinion about where they want to see the gwf.
Anyway, mod3 is most probably frozen now, can't imagine a dev bothering reading the thread and making changes for the gwf. Maybe a poll would be fine now. Gwfs, which class will be your reroll?
This is an all-class discussion? Then, time to hear the DC and HR opinion about where they want to see the gwf.
Anyway, mod3 is most probably frozen now, can't imagine a dev bothering reading the thread and making changes for the gwf. Maybe a poll would be fine now. Gwfs, which class will be your reroll?
You are correct about it being wayyyyy too late to make changes, but I guess productive conversation is always a good thing. Maybe they are taking notes.
I'm pretty sure though, with all the changes destroyer GWFs will have a spot in dungeons as DPS, not 100% on that as I'm not much of a PvE guy.
I DO know that GWFs will remain top in PvP.
I'm hoping TRs and HRs will still have a chance against them, but for certain no other class will.
The biggest problem is a lot of people always are thinking about who is best in 1v1 when the game has no real 1v1 gameplay other than when fighting over a cap and even that can be considered just delaying them until backup arrives before ganking. The thing is that the GWF is stil VERY viable in PvP, they will still hit crazy burst damage moving twice as fast as everyone else with an even faster cooldown stun / knock lock now. In a team a perma is great to have as a backcapper but when it comes to winning the middle cap a GWF is one of the most useful by far to have in your team.
Feedback
We need to collect as much feedback as possible on this so we can tweak the Destroyer and Sentinel trees to better fit their intended roles. Given that, we would like you to categorize and color code your feedback so we can sort it and act on it most effectively! Please use the below format to submit bugs/feedback.
Type: Bug/Feedback (Please only choose one) Spec: (Please enter the spec that you are providing feedback for here)
Please use “Bold” face text for the Type & Spec then type your feedback in the body of your post. If you are listing a bug please have this text in RED, if you are posting an opinion or feedback please use BLUE.
(Concise Feedback & Screen Shots are much appreciated)
Examples: Bug: Destroyer Destroyer’s Purpose didn’t grant stacks while dealing damage.
Feedback: Sentinel I feel like I don’t have enough tools to stay alive under fire now and it makes tanking too hard.
Please try to play for a few hours to get used to the feat changes. Thank you again for all your help Adventurers! We look forward to hearing back from you!
Chris “Gentleman_Crush” Meyer
Feedback: Sentinel Sentinels lack the damage/threat in PVE to be viable.
Feedback: Instigator Instagator's lack damage AND survivability now... They should get much more CC in their tree as well as better damage boosts for some of the final tier feats.
Feedback: Destroyer Deep Gash is too weak. 20% of power, netting out tenacity/DR, makes this a pretty worthless feat
I'd like to see it do the exact damage, ignoring resistances, however that's just me being biased in favor of more damage for the GWF... lol
PvP wise it's technically still a good one to get to counter HR's aimed shot or to stop people from mounting up. I hate it when fighting a GWF who just keeps putting the DOT on me but it's not the damage that I ever notice just the fact it stops me from using aimed shot when I would usually get the chance to.
PvP wise it's technically still a good one to get to counter HR's aimed shot or to stop people from mounting up. I hate it when fighting a GWF who just keeps putting the DOT on me but it's not the damage that I ever notice just the fact it stops me from using aimed shot when I would usually get the chance to.
Yeah which is why most people will now only put 1 point in it... Making it worthless...
I agree with the above, if it ignored all DR then yes it could be good...
Id rather like to see the Insta tree get buffed...
Guys, I have read the whole thread and want to step in and point something out. We are actively thinking about CWs and what to do with them right now (although I cannot give a timeline on anything relating to that right now). Balance is a really delicate situation and not one we make drastic changes to lightly. This was a case where if we did nothing every single GWF would have lost a substantial portion of their performance with no buffs to compensate. That said, this is why we put things like this on the preview shard. We want you guys to test it and get a feel for the intent and direction the class is moving so you can help shape it.
To be perfectly frank, the CW is very much out of line right now. They provide too much damage and their AoEs don't really conform to the same damage rules as they ideally should. But we have looked at various reasons as to why they cause problems and some of that lies in their feats, some in their base ratios, some in target caps, and that is really quite a few dials to tune all at once. We are looking at where they belong and what role they need to fit into in combat, as well as ways to preserve some roles that players enjoy without making them the best option at all times.
With all that in mind, please look at GWF performance alongside TR and HR as those are much closer to the performance values we would like to see. And we are aware of the struggle of Sentinels trying to hold threat and still be survivable. We want to examine tanking but we don't know when we will have something ready for that because it is a very difficult and complex set of changes to make Tanking feel gratifying without disabling game play for other players.
All aboard the nerf nerf train.
look if you dev's feel every class does 2 much damage maybe you should run a fue epic dungeons with the minimum gear score. but only after you finish all your nerfs I can see it know.
the GF unable to stay on his feet because he had to sacrifice to must survivability for dps just to hold agro.
the GWF who sacrificed any survivability for still lower dps that a single troll lt can regen in 3 seconds.
the CW who's aoe dmg cant sufficiently kill or control mobs anymore and the tank and gwf die because he couldn't help kill the endless supply of constantly responding mobs.
The poor DC who has too powerful HOT's cant heal hes too busy kitting as hes the new tank class now.
rogues will get there serving of nerf pie soon 2 and all because the poor devs have to appease every whiny pvp players whims.
you pvp nerfs will kill pve guys just stop. I ssume you do your research you have an entire pve community screaming because you cater to pvp its the smallest part of this game its 2 maps and one war zone map... your killing yourselves one nerf at a time.
i have run dungeons with full blue gear, or full blue with 15k ad weapons. on tr its 12k gearscore, didnt have any problems, dungeon difficulty is pathetic, bad players SHOULDN'T be able to finish every dungeon in game, there should be hard dungeons that require skill
cn can be done with 3cw, epic spell has been done with 1 cw + forgot the other class, without adds ANY boss can be soloed by about any class(xcept for valinda/fulm because of the mechanic that makes it impossible to solo, not boss strength)
sorcerer78Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 12Arc User
edited May 2014
Can anyone clarify the following thing for me pls:
"Great Weapon Fighter: Feats: Destroyers Purpose: Destroyer's Purpose now correctly operates in its own damage layer rather than in the Critical Severity damage layer."
I believe that before this bonus, despite being added at the base of damages was not calculated by the critic. it amounted to the final result, as if the base damage of his power had not received any bonus.
well, now apparently works. The annoying thing is that the minimum and maximum damage can be a huge difference when you get all these bonus. but ok.
ps: I think the bf is now being taken into account as well. at least my ibs just passed the 50k with this bonus.
Yeah watch those geared GWF that crit IBS for easy 20K on you.
Honestly I like the idea of the change to GWF, but the dmg buff seems a bit over the board when combine with stone and other stuff.
The even bigger issue is that GF again gonna be outshined by GWF... despite GF brings more utility to the team but who wants utility when you can play a fighter who just kill everything...
Agreed!
There will be a lots of one-hitted ppl in pvp in mod3 by IBS in unstopable...
no it wont atm in live i can hit 12-14+3.7k per sec next 5 sec in pvp on low def ppl and for this i do not need to lose 2/3 of hp on my 22k dps gwf
after mod 3 i will need to deal 10-15 hits while unstoppable to deal this damage in pvp dps gwf wont be alive enough time to chain 3x full unstoppable like it can in pve and stay alive to get 10-15 stacks of damage buff from unstoppable chains
Comments
and number of ppl you can get in party is limited so you cant just "take more cw" cause there are already 4 or 5 of them in the party
A whole trilogy of poor choices.
Want to try DC ?
So what your saying is:
Nerf GWF/CWs to deal less damage, NOW single targets deal 70% of the damage AOE classes deal and now that CWs either do damage or CC not both that fixes the isssue?
The problem with this is, the new group comp will have 3 CWs - 1 for CC 2 for DPS, 1 TR for solo DPS and 1 DC.
They need to introduce mobs that MUST be tanked or it will wipe the group.
The issue is the tanks in this game just flat out suck for tanking in PVE...
Gwf with little damage volume = kick. enough to see the class that was kicking. until November this was the reality. ... or mimimi "run with the guild, I have no problem playing with my friends and doing dps against draco using my gwf 398673498673486k gs while my friend cw 3986739984674867k gs controls and kills everything with a breath. "
As the dps and not the debuff which gave a satisfactory position for the class, ok. can remove this additional function. but the gwf damage is not the key to imbalance. is a need for the class.
ps: the controversy over the pvp is unknown, so there is no reason to have anchors now.
then, there is not rational or reason for not nerf the class to be the key to balance. ie reverse the order of the solution. the imbalance in pve embraces and transcends the current condition of the class.
do not know if I report as a bug or just curiosity. sequent damage from hits are taking more damage is intentional?... is not bad lose cancelation in this terms...
I couldnt agree more with this. Strongs that have an anti-magic shell around them at about a 100' ft radius in which no spells can be cast is one good one. Mobs that do massive kickback when they take damage- like 300% kickback- would require low damage dealing high hp tanky characters to slowly bring them down. There are so many options.
Jugger Conq GF
....
The dungeons have one mechanic dump mobs on you. Cryptic is not going to go back and fix every dungeon and skirmish in the game so AE damage dealers will always be the most desirable class.
The solution is not nerf AE damage dealers its give the other classes some AE damage skills.
HRs were desirable for split shot, with the nerf they should get some others encounter abilities that do good AE damage. Traps or have thorn ward hit all targets in area ect.
TRs would be easy to fix. make path of blades hit all targets in area or other AE skills maybe poison cloud, fan of blades, caltrops anything. Give them decent AE dps and then they could switch to single target for bosses. this would make TRs desirable in grps.
Nerfing a class doesnt make other classes better and more desirable. Giving a class useful skills that help a grp, makes a class more desirable.
Another thing that would be interesting is "spell reflect" mobs. That during some "animation" are immune and actually reflect back any spells cast on them - this would make melee/physical damage more appealing in groups AND cause CWs to have to really watch out in PVE.
I dont mind CWs having amazing AOE damage, but when the entire PVE gameplay becomes CW or GTFO for PVE it really ruins the game...
I have alot of pvp buddies who rolled PVE CWs just to farm gear for their PVP toons because it is WAY more efficient then having to play their own class in PVE.... This just seems silly to me.
Actually..... the TR still won't get anywhere. They don't do their eye popping damage face tanking things... They need to strike from flanking position.
The Tank(GF)/Rogue combo is what allows them to be able to do just eye popping numbers of Damage. They need that combat advantage and someone to hold the mob's attention...
No tank... no rogue, he drops off the map as that is the combo for excellent single target damage... but being that nothing needs tanking and there are few if any Single Target mobs.... no tank... no rogue.
CWs combine well with GWFs because the both of them can massacre mass mobs, and the GWF fills in the holes of the CW class very well. Its their nich. Its why the two are such a good combo togather in these dungeons as they are AoE damagers by nature, one covers one spectrum, the other, covers the other side of the spectrum. The GWF stuns, prones, bleeds, slows enemies the same way the CW does... just on a smaller scale and much shorter area of effect, but he's also stronger on Single Target mobs.
All of them are tools in an Arsenal to do a job..... but if there's only one job to do... then... no matter how much you nerf, one pair OR BUFF the other... one team is still just as USELESS as before, and becomes even MORE unwanted..... because now it takes more of ONE side of the OTHER team to do the job they were designed to do in the first place.
So... one pair gets squeezed out.
EDIT: Because the fighter class is depended on by different sides of the equasion.... I personally believe they should just fold the GWF and GW into one class called Fighter with the ability to swap out and specialize in either weapon set to flex and adapt to whatever is needed in any given dungeon. So the fighter could do either job as needed depending on the team they draw.
Well what do you propose they do?
They arent gonna go back and re-work existing stuff... So their only option is to try and pretend to balance PVE gameplay with changes to classes....
The only things I can think of are to nerf CW PVE damage but give them amazing aoe control - this may allow for GWFsand HRs to enter the picture as the AOE damage while the CW AOE controls.
This still leaves you without needing a tank and without TRs beeing needed for solo dps...
I mean like you said, when everything is AOE - its hard to make people bring groups of diversity
Won't work, we don't have anything to build off of in that.
We've either got Single Target control powers, or AoE damage... we do not have single target damage or AoE control. Our only AoE control is about the same as yours on the GWF side. Basically we've got one AoE damage spell with knockdown, one with Stun, and one with Slow and only half the CWs have the build for. What we really do is debuff the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of the mobs for you.
Those components don't last much longer than yours as a GWF. What we do, is AoE damage things until we can build UP to a single AoE control spell in our Daily you know as Singularity that's how it really works.
That's the reality of the actual class. When we combine our abilities with yours as a GWF, togather the damage and your prones, knockdowns, and your damage we combine to just slaughter Mass Mobs.
That's really all we've got. In reality we're no more a controller than you are as a GWF.
You would have to implement an entirely new class to get that.
I like your ideas concerning mob changes. But in reality all they have to do in the dungeons is make actual single target tankable mobs that need to be DPSd down rather than burned. One example right off the Bat is the Gelatanous Cubes in VT. Everytime I run that one the Cubes make short work of any mage in range because all we have is our AoEs slotted
..... but the GWFs seem to be able to wipe them out with out problems, thus covering our little known weaknesses as CWs.
i always thought guardians were a hindrance for rogues since they usually aoe aggro and block the bosses line-of-sight (sometimes even having mobs with aoe stuns on them + the boss). otherwise, rogues are able to do just fine tanking themselves. it may require more dodging but that's about it.
Actually that's not the issue, the Rogue is a striker a single target damager.
....For the Rogue to do eye popping numbers of damage... he needs sustained damage on a single target and to be in a flanking position to allow combat advantage.
The Rogue cannot achieve this without someone holding the mob's attention. Because the moment he has the Mobs attention he can no longer do sustained damage as he has to dodge a lot and on top of that he loses his key combat advantage damage.
So... he loses his DPS, and can't do his job properly.
The Rogue isn't a straight on fighter... yeah here he can do it, but the way he does his eye popping damage numbers is if someone else has the Mob's attention... ergo... a tank. The Tank/Rogue combination increases his damage markedly and allows him to actually do his job of single target damager.
Minus that, it drops sharply. No tank... no rogue eye popping damage. But being that there's few to no single target mobs to tank in the first place.... the rogue has no role anymore or even any job. Neither tanks.... nor rogues do.
All of this gets negated because there's no single target mobs to apply the Tank/Rogue tactical combo on, relegating the both of them to uselessness. They're both actually very good at their job... there's just NO JOB FOR THEM TO ACTUALLY DO and there's not going to be even if GWFs are nerfed.
Because there's nothing to use a rogue on in the first place, just a ton of mass mobs. SO this was ALL FOR NOTHING and won't achieve a **** thing because... as usual, the devs completely missed the point thinking that Rogues and GWFs were somehow related damage wise... they're not and never were. They're used for two totally different purposes so one doesn't affect the other.
BUT... it DOES affect the CWs natural partner for mass mob clearing.
Anyway, mod3 is most probably frozen now, can't imagine a dev bothering reading the thread and making changes for the gwf. Maybe a poll would be fine now. Gwfs, which class will be your reroll?
You are correct about it being wayyyyy too late to make changes, but I guess productive conversation is always a good thing. Maybe they are taking notes.
I'm pretty sure though, with all the changes destroyer GWFs will have a spot in dungeons as DPS, not 100% on that as I'm not much of a PvE guy.
I DO know that GWFs will remain top in PvP.
I'm hoping TRs and HRs will still have a chance against them, but for certain no other class will.
Obviously it helps if they can hold stealth longer, but Combat Advantage really isn't an issue for most TRs that I know...
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's
Feedback: Sentinel
Sentinels lack the damage/threat in PVE to be viable.
Feedback: Instigator
Instagator's lack damage AND survivability now... They should get much more CC in their tree as well as better damage boosts for some of the final tier feats.
Feedback: Destroyer
Deep Gash is too weak. 20% of power, netting out tenacity/DR, makes this a pretty worthless feat
PvP wise it's technically still a good one to get to counter HR's aimed shot or to stop people from mounting up. I hate it when fighting a GWF who just keeps putting the DOT on me but it's not the damage that I ever notice just the fact it stops me from using aimed shot when I would usually get the chance to.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's
Yeah which is why most people will now only put 1 point in it... Making it worthless...
I agree with the above, if it ignored all DR then yes it could be good...
Id rather like to see the Insta tree get buffed...
cn can be done with 3cw, epic spell has been done with 1 cw + forgot the other class, without adds ANY boss can be soloed by about any class(xcept for valinda/fulm because of the mechanic that makes it impossible to solo, not boss strength)
"Great Weapon Fighter: Feats: Destroyers Purpose: Destroyer's Purpose now correctly operates in its own damage layer rather than in the Critical Severity damage layer."
What does this mean exactly?
well, now apparently works. The annoying thing is that the minimum and maximum damage can be a huge difference when you get all these bonus. but ok.
ps: I think the bf is now being taken into account as well. at least my ibs just passed the 50k with this bonus.
Honestly I like the idea of the change to GWF, but the dmg buff seems a bit over the board when combine with stone and other stuff.
The even bigger issue is that GF again gonna be outshined by GWF... despite GF brings more utility to the team but who wants utility when you can play a fighter who just kill everything...
Agreed!
There will be a lots of one-hitted ppl in pvp in mod3 by IBS in unstopable...
no it wont atm in live i can hit 12-14+3.7k per sec next 5 sec in pvp on low def ppl and for this i do not need to lose 2/3 of hp on my 22k dps gwf
after mod 3 i will need to deal 10-15 hits while unstoppable to deal this damage in pvp dps gwf wont be alive enough time to chain 3x full unstoppable like it can in pve and stay alive to get 10-15 stacks of damage buff from unstoppable chains