I just want CW to be as competitive as GWFs or TRs at high end PVP. I could care less about which method cryptic goes with as there are a couple of different routes.
If the only way for a CW to be competitive is to make be as tanks, then so be it. Gameplay balance over lore.
And this is more reasonable than the Imbalancing whine act some of the people here have been wanting. Maybe, seeing as the GWF and GF can switch paths, maybe CW gain the healing/tankiness properties of DCs, while keeping a good bit of their cc, but not totally stealing their healing?
By the way that HERP DERP thing you're saying? Please read the OP, as his complaints of WHY CANT A MAGE IN CLOTH HAVE THE SAME DR/HP/REGEN AS TANKS IN MAIL ARMOR basically explained my initial foray into the thread.
Man, just when I think people got back on track, the people WHO CANT EVEN READ THE ORIGIN POST WHILE COMPLAINING THAT IM NOT READING COME ALONG...
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Fixing CWs in PVP isnt really about "fixing CWs". The other classes are basically immune to our CC at least half the time (ranger), most of the time GWF TR and GF. We cannot reliably CC anyone. Our damage isnt the garbage it feels like, it's low because we cant deliver anything meaningful most of the time. TR can basically always strike as can a GWF.
I see a few ways to fix the CW.
1} Possibly increase the distance we Teleport , to allow us distance. Running is currently faster than our Teleport which is ridiculous.
2] GF block should deplete much faster than it does currently. Turtling till your cooldowns are back up shouldnt be an option.
3} Unstoppable shouldnt break our CC, I honestly think it shouldnt make them immune to our magical type CC. Our prones and knockbacks yes.
4} Spammable gap closers equate to melee being ranged.
5} non perma TRs can basically disable you and be immune when you arent disabled immune durations should be looked at. Perma.......just stupid.
Until all these issues are addressed the CW will be a mess in PVP. I promise one thing though Icewind Dale will be a very unpleasant experience for the CW. At least the DC can tank and run.
And this is more reasonable than the Imbalancing whine act some of the people here have been wanting. Maybe, seeing as the GWF and GF can switch paths, maybe CW gain the healing/tankiness properties of DCs, while keeping a good bit of their cc, but not totally stealing their healing?
I don't think cryptic is up on the idea of giving another class healing powers as of yet. This would pretty much make it even more BIS in PVE.
They could make CW's CC pass through tenacity, make the shard permanent once it is summoned.
If CWs are going to continue being fragile in PVP, might as well give them some defensive abilities
Until all these issues are addressed the CW will be a mess in PVP. I promise one thing though Icewind Dale will be a very unpleasant experience for the CW. At least the DC can tank and run.
How many players are on each team in Icewind dale pvp
Funny thing is, TRs have been the cream or near the top in PVP most of the times throughout neverwinter's history.
I guess part of it is that the class was intended for PVE 1v1 boss battles with lots of defensive abilities and it translated very very well to PVP.
Tenacity was supposed to solve a lot of these problems. They could simply add the code: for every 100 tenacity, reduce TR's damage to you by 3%.
Right now, tenacity is a blanket stat that affects all classes equally even though not all classes are equal in PVP. Hopefully, they will use the tenacity object and add some variables to it that can affect each class with different parameters.
Fixing CWs in PVP isnt really about "fixing CWs". The other classes are basically immune to our CC at least half the time (ranger), most of the time GWF TR and GF. We cannot reliably CC anyone. Our damage isnt the garbage it feels like, it's low because we cant deliver anything meaningful most of the time. TR can basically always strike as can a GWF.
I see a few ways to fix the CW.
1} Possibly increase the distance we Teleport , to allow us distance. Running is currently faster than our Teleport which is ridiculous.
2] GF block should deplete much faster than it does currently. Turtling till your cooldowns are back up shouldnt be an option.
3} Unstoppable shouldnt break our CC, I honestly think it shouldnt make them immune to our magical type CC. Our prones and knockbacks yes.
4} Spammable gap closers equate to melee being ranged.
5} non perma TRs can basically disable you and be immune when you arent disabled immune durations should be looked at. Perma.......just stupid.
Until all these issues are addressed the CW will be a mess in PVP. I promise one thing though Icewind Dale will be a very unpleasant experience for the CW. At least the DC can tank and run.
These are understandable. Not perfect solutions either(it is a toughie)
1)actually I do believe this is true. Make GWFs sprint slightly slower, maybe?
2)Also needs a reasonable medium. Once the meter's gone, GFs go down fast. They also move slow as heck while they're guarding.
3)what do you mean by "magical type cc"? The CWs stuns/freezes are better than their prones. How unstoppable is unstoppable if entangling force chokes and grasps you until you get out of it?
4)weakening gap closers too much also equates into melee never able to reach range.
5)I already suggested an encounter capable of giving CWs the ability to target stealthier TRs. They should have something with this kind of purpose.
Not disagreeing with these, just that you have to watch how these might give too much to the CW.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Funny thing is, TRs have been the cream or near the top in PVP most of the times throughout neverwinter's history.
I guess part of it is that the class was intended for PVE 1v1 boss battles with lots of defensive abilities and it translated very very well to PVP.
Tenacity was supposed to solve a lot of these problems. They could simply add the code: for every 100 tenacity, reduce TR's damage to you by 3%.
Right now, tenacity is a blanket stat that affects all classes equally even though not all classes are equal in PVP. Hopefully, they will use the tenacity object and add some variables to it that can affect each class with different parameters.
I was originally under the impression that CWs were supposed to actually get a Control Bonus to compensate for tenacity... This currently seems untrue.
Also, a lot of TRs complaining that their damage went in the crapper too. They say that's why they prefer perma: would you rather do low damage, but be much harder to kill(perma), than low damage, and still easy to kill(non perma)?
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
I was originally under the impression that CWs were supposed to actually get a Control Bonus to compensate for tenacity... This currently seems untrue.
Also, a lot of TRs complaining that their damage went in the crapper too. They say that's why they prefer perma: would you rather do low damage, but be much harder to kill(perma), than low damage, and still easy to kill(non perma)?
TRs have a skill called shocking execution that is a better version of the CW's ice knife burst damage.
TRs have a skill called shocking execution that is a better version of the CW's ice knife burst damage.
not a fair comparison since it was actually stronger pre-tenacity and just broke with tenacity. i still remember the age of 2-3 wizards spamming 1-shots from that daily 24/7......33k right from the start.
what broke it was the fact that it doesn't count armor pen on-top of the huge resist buff everyone got
This is an absurd statement. HRs don't *need* to follow up with additional cc, because CA is all they need to render a CW helpless to use their best spells. CWs by contrast need to chain a bunch of spells together to achieve the same effect.
The CC stuns briefly 3 times (2 times if you dodge it). Compared with the variety of stuns and prones a CW has it's benign.
This isn't untrue, it's just that HRs have better ranged cc than CWs when they're up against each other in a 1v1 scenario.
What? 3 prones, an undodgable root, and a few stuns. That's worse than 2-3 mini stuns on like a 20 second cooldown?
I do that every day, on each side of that match-up. He hits me with Icy Rays, I hit with Constricting Arrow or Disruptive Shot. Advantage: HR.
Or, he can just immediately hit you with entangling after icy rays, drop a shard on your head, prone you twice, dealing lots of damage before you can even get the animation for constricting arrow off.
Just dodge when you have constricting on you and save your spellcasting for when it's on cooldown for the HR.
not a fair comparison since it was actually stronger pre-tenacity and just broke with tenacity. i still remember the age of 2-3 wizards spamming 1-shots from that daily 24/7......33k right from the start.
what broke it was the fact that it doesn't count armor pen on-top of the huge resist buff everyone got
Yes, this^. The big thing I hear is that it's NOT supposed to work that way. That tenacity somehow broke it was something I have been hearing in the "complaints about TR" corner.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
What about giving CWs more slows and some types of speed buffs? The way I see it, CWs were designed to be glass cannons with control, not tanks. Boosting damage won't help, because with a glass cannon class with no CC resist, you can be sure that CW is never going to be allowed to attack. The only way boosting damage would help is if CWs can one shot people, and I don't think anyone thinks that's fair. If you like that idea, think back to the old days of TRs one shotting people with lashing blade.
So my solution, increase slow severity on stacks of cold. Give CWs a temporary speed boost as a side effect with some of their skills. Give CWs some utility encounters, not all damage ones. Double CC duration, but increase cooldowns slightly. I wouldn't mind having a CW able to perma CC, as most classes have a way out of CC, or can dodge. Give CWs an encounter that only breaks CCs with a short cooldown around 12 seconds (before recovery). Reduce damage of CWs by 33%.
This solution should work both in PVE and PVP. In PVP, CWs get more control and are better able to stay at range, while dealing less damage. In PVE, CWs are better able to handle mobs but have their damage severely reduced.
If you look at other classes who are leading in PVP, most of their encounters are used for utility, not damage. Giving a CW an encounter to break CC, but forcing them to give up an encounter slot for it. Of course, the specific amounts to change things by will probably be very different than I suggested, but the idea is the point of this post.
I'd like to mention that simple solutions mentioned in this thread like increasing tankiness or damage will not work. Increasing damage will wreck PVE even more, while doing little for PVP. Increasing tankiness will take away the idea of playing a wizard type class.
To those that say that tankiness is the only way to be viable in the current PVP meta, I'll point out that CWs have been defending their dominance of PVE by claiming they are expecially suited to deal with the current PVE meta, AoE. If you claim that AoEs aren't overpowered in PVE, it's just bad dungeon design, others can claim tanks aren't overpowered in PVP, it's just bad map design. Hopefully we'll get more dungeon and PVP settings where different strengths can shine.
One last thing, DCs should also be looked at, as I consider CWs a DCs natural predator, so a buff to a CW hurts DCs particularly hard.
not a fair comparison since it was actually stronger pre-tenacity and just broke with tenacity. i still remember the age of 2-3 wizards spamming 1-shots from that daily 24/7......33k right from the start.
what broke it was the fact that it doesn't count armor pen on-top of the huge resist buff everyone got
I am talking about the current system. Fix the current skills and balance (some of them are bugged, then fix the current bugs)
Who cares about the past? TRs had an OP lashing blade skill in the past too.
There, I named another OP skill in the past that has since changed. Am I playing the game right?
Fixing CWs in PVP isnt really about "fixing CWs". The other classes are basically immune to our CC at least half the time (ranger), most of the time GWF TR and GF. We cannot reliably CC anyone. Our damage isnt the garbage it feels like, it's low because we cant deliver anything meaningful most of the time. TR can basically always strike as can a GWF.
I see a few ways to fix the CW.
1} Possibly increase the distance we Teleport , to allow us distance. Running is currently faster than our Teleport which is ridiculous.
2] GF block should deplete much faster than it does currently. Turtling till your cooldowns are back up shouldnt be an option.
3} Unstoppable shouldnt break our CC, I honestly think it shouldnt make them immune to our magical type CC. Our prones and knockbacks yes.
4} Spammable gap closers equate to melee being ranged.
5} non perma TRs can basically disable you and be immune when you arent disabled immune durations should be looked at. Perma.......just stupid.
Until all these issues are addressed the CW will be a mess in PVP. I promise one thing though Icewind Dale will be a very unpleasant experience for the CW. At least the DC can tank and run.
Holy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, someone in this thread has a brain.
These issues really need to be addressed. Bumped this post for the truth and hopefully some devs are reading. Not gonna press my luck but bumping posts doesn't cost money so it won't hurt at least.
I think, this goes to far (for now).
I think, first of all the bugs have to be fixed. Which means, as already stated:
1.) Armor Penetration working correctly for all powers.
2.) CC-resist-penetration (66% is stated) working correctly (I don't think it does now - the Entangling Force animation on my part takes sometimes longer than a player is actually lifted; ehm, yeah...). This also includes fixing the bug that deflected attacks reduce or even completely negate CC effects.
I disagree (for now) to make CWs tankier. CC should be a CWs defense. Tenacitys additional CC-resist mixed with the CC-resist-penetration seemingly not working - or not being high enough - and mixed with the bug that deflected attacks also reduce or even completely negate CC effects, was abysmal for CWs in PvP. Repel was a very important skill against basically all classes to interrupt and create distance, and is now being far from working consistent to do so.
If these bugs are fixed and the CW is still inferior, then you could think about further changes. But I think first you have to evaluate again when these bugs are fixed.
Originally Posted by faerbot12345 View Post
Fixing CWs in PVP isnt really about "fixing CWs". The other classes are basically immune to our CC at least half the time (ranger), most of the time GWF TR and GF. We cannot reliably CC anyone. Our damage isnt the garbage it feels like, it's low because we cant deliver anything meaningful most of the time. TR can basically always strike as can a GWF.
I see a few ways to fix the CW.
1} Possibly increase the distance we Teleport , to allow us distance. Running is currently faster than our Teleport which is ridiculous.
2] GF block should deplete much faster than it does currently. Turtling till your cooldowns are back up shouldnt be an option.
3} Unstoppable shouldnt break our CC, I honestly think it shouldnt make them immune to our magical type CC. Our prones and knockbacks yes.
4} Spammable gap closers equate to melee being ranged.
5} non perma TRs can basically disable you and be immune when you arent disabled immune durations should be looked at. Perma.......just stupid.
Until all these issues are addressed the CW will be a mess in PVP. I promise one thing though Icewind Dale will be a very unpleasant experience for the CW. At least the DC can tank and run.
Holy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, someone in this thread has a brain.
These issues really need to be addressed. Bumped this post for the truth and hopefully some devs are reading. Not gonna press my luck but bumping posts doesn't cost money so it won't hurt at least.
Eh no. How is an HR CC-immune half the time? Icy Rays is undodgable. Are you guys even using this skill?
As for the other things,
1. CWs have more dodges than most classes and the immunity timer is huge.
2. GF needs block, that's their deal. And you can freeze them through it, and once frozen you can do what you want to them. L2P issue here.
3. GWFs could never catch you then.
4. The gap closers have a delay on them after activation before you can use an ability making them not as great as they seem.
5. Are you getting hit with dazing strike or something?
Nope, sorry, just a whole lot of L2P issues going on here, not a brain.
I am talking about the current system. Fix the current skills and balance (some of them are bugged, then fix the current bugs)
Who cares about the past? TRs had an OP lashing blade skill in the past too.
There, I named another OP skill in the past that has since changed. Am I playing the game right?
i was just pointing out that u can't compare a skill that is working correctly to one that is now broken. it's simply not fair, but i do recall some people actually think it's fine if shocking was as weak as your ice knife currently and some of you mention 2-9k damage as your best ice knives. once every skill counts armor pen, then we can check again to see how bad your ice knives are.
and the difference between pre-tenacity and this overpowered lashing is a huge time gap that i wasn't even there for to know lashing was like that. i'm pretty sure everyone knows what pre-tenacitiy was like since it was the most recent, significant change. who knows what else was wrong with pvp way back then anyways.
Also, the main problem with CWs right now is bugged ArP, that doesn't work on most important abilities (such as Ice Knife and Icy Rays).
"They don't" ? I will have to take a guess as to what you mean by that since it's rather vague.
You mean that DC's can't heal anyone in PvP, right? Well, wrong. If I have a DC next to me I will not die under reasonable scenarios. And if I fight someone who is not a squishy 8k gs CW then a DC there to heal him will make all the difference.
Don't get me started on DC healing DC, if they are close to geared and decent at what they do it will be a nightmare.
I laugh at anyone who says that DC's are useless in PvP. Thing is, a bad DC will look even worse than the same level of bad-anything else. Atm you can hardly tell the difference between a bad GWF and a good one. Same goes for cheese permas. No skill builds that doesn't require much of any effort at all.
"They don't" ? I will have to take a guess as to what you mean by that since it's rather vague.
You mean that DC's can't heal anyone in PvP, right? Well, wrong. If I have a DC next to me I will not die under reasonable scenarios. And if I fight someone who is not a squishy 8k gs CW then a DC there to heal him will make all the difference.
Don't get me started on DC healing DC, if they are close to geared and decent at what they do it will be a nightmare.
I laugh at anyone who says that DC's are useless in PvP. Thing is, a bad DC will look even worse than the same level of bad-anything else. Atm you can hardly tell the difference between a bad GWF and a good one. Same goes for cheese permas. No skill builds that doesn't require much of any effort at all.
I pug pvp exclusivly on a GF, and I disagree strongly that you can not tell the difference between a good perma and a bad one. GWF is easymode, but permas pay dearly for any mistakes they make.
This is a lol threat for me... Good pvp team needs at least one good cw. I wont say why, just do some premades. And dont play CW for this test, we kinda know u qqers are bad at it....
Sure thing, go rally for PVE changes even though module 3 is PVP-focused.
If they balance CW in PVP to be equally as competitive as a perma-TR in the current PVP meta, then they can go balance it in PVE-scenario.
for cw to be competitive in pvp as tr he must be able to win 1v1 against any class.
so why would someone play perma tr or gwf if he cant even cap a node against 1 cw.
and why would someone play combat tr when cw has way better burst cc and same survival.
0
Options
pandapaulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 424Bounty Hunter
1. Fix their Armor Penetration. DCs need this as well. It doesn't seem like this should be a big issue to fix either.
2. Make the fix one of the developers talked about so that Deflect will no longer have a chance to deflect cc effects.
3. Let a few spells ignore 100% of Tenacity-based cc resistance. Repel would be a good candidate.
4. Fix it so Shard doesn't evaporate when stunned, dazed or whatever.
That set of changes would aid CWs immensely. In addition, it remains an issue that other classes are too good in some ways, which makes CWs feel particularly bad by contrast:
5. Fix the fix they were supposed to apply to Constricting Arrow, so that it counts as cc, make it dodgeable and properly blockable. Or change the secondary stuns into roots.
6. Apply fixes to GWFs and TRs. Some of the former is coming in module 3 and the latter has been slated for later.
Once things that were supposed to be fixed are actually properly fixed, I don't think CWs need that much more of a boost. Maybe increasing teleport distance if you string a few together (i.e. first is 16 ft., second 20 ft., third 24 ft. if used immediately in a chain) and/or boosting a few of their defenses or defensive feats or powers (allowing Maelstrom of Chaos to be triggered at 50% or even 25% AP for the partial benefit).
Here are the issues
Right now CW is in such a God mode In pve.. It's completely overpowered and broken
The devs have already commented on this.. So it's well known
Any fixes to cw like the armor pen will not happen until they have fixed for pve. Yes these fixes are easy but you have to realise that they aren't fixing it on purpose because of the pve situation. Cw can not be buffed in anyway that affects pve.., so I would just accept that cw is the way it is until they can address the pve cw.. After that maybe they will get some pvp love but right now isn't going to happen
whats funny is that more effort has gone into this thread than the devs have put into pvp. i have enever seen a game with as lazy and falt out out of touch devs as this one. its stunning. it really is.
I just want CW to be as competitive as GWFs or TRs at high end PVP. I could care less about which method cryptic goes with as there are a couple of different routes.
If the only way for a CW to be competitive is to make be as tanks, then so be it. Gameplay balance over lore.
Absolutely not. What sets this game apart is its appeal to D&D fans. CWs are supposed to be frail characters who spend most of their time in the library, not pumping iron. CWs are supposed to be able to trick, stun, confuse, prone, and otherwise immobilize mobs, but not TANK them. They aren't melee fighters and never should be.
Here are the issues
Right now CW is in such a God mode In pve.. It's completely overpowered and broken
The devs have already commented on this.. So it's well known
Any fixes to cw like the armor pen will not happen until they have fixed for pve. Yes these fixes are easy but you have to realise that they aren't fixing it on purpose because of the pve situation. Cw can not be buffed in anyway that affects pve.., so I would just accept that cw is the way it is until they can address the pve cw.. After that maybe they will get some pvp love but right now isn't going to happen
That is a gross misrepresentation. CW's are not OP. They have very high burst damage so they top the paingiver by doing tons of damage against trash mobs. In fact right now they are the most balanced class for PVE.
Since almost all the dungeons are built around endless hoards of adds, CW's are needed. Can you run dungeons without them? Sure, but then taking out the trash is more work - and not in a fun way. A GWF has far better sustained dps than a CW. On a single target encounter even a TR will outdamage a CW. Sadly TR's can't appropriately deal with endless hoards of adds, but that is a game design issue.
That is a gross misrepresentation. CW's are not OP. They have very high burst damage so they top the paingiver by doing tons of damage against trash mobs. In fact right now they are in the most balanced class for PVE.
I haven't seen them say that. If they have, then it is pretty clear that they don't bother playing their own game and further explains why so many classes are broken.
But more importantly it's an undisputed fact. If they run the numbers and take away ALL damage done to trash mobs, comparing comparably equipped and skilled players, a CW won't be in the top 3 for damage.
Comments
And this is more reasonable than the Imbalancing whine act some of the people here have been wanting. Maybe, seeing as the GWF and GF can switch paths, maybe CW gain the healing/tankiness properties of DCs, while keeping a good bit of their cc, but not totally stealing their healing?
By the way that HERP DERP thing you're saying? Please read the OP, as his complaints of WHY CANT A MAGE IN CLOTH HAVE THE SAME DR/HP/REGEN AS TANKS IN MAIL ARMOR basically explained my initial foray into the thread.
Man, just when I think people got back on track, the people WHO CANT EVEN READ THE ORIGIN POST WHILE COMPLAINING THAT IM NOT READING COME ALONG...
I see a few ways to fix the CW.
1} Possibly increase the distance we Teleport , to allow us distance. Running is currently faster than our Teleport which is ridiculous.
2] GF block should deplete much faster than it does currently. Turtling till your cooldowns are back up shouldnt be an option.
3} Unstoppable shouldnt break our CC, I honestly think it shouldnt make them immune to our magical type CC. Our prones and knockbacks yes.
4} Spammable gap closers equate to melee being ranged.
5} non perma TRs can basically disable you and be immune when you arent disabled immune durations should be looked at. Perma.......just stupid.
Until all these issues are addressed the CW will be a mess in PVP. I promise one thing though Icewind Dale will be a very unpleasant experience for the CW. At least the DC can tank and run.
I don't think cryptic is up on the idea of giving another class healing powers as of yet. This would pretty much make it even more BIS in PVE.
They could make CW's CC pass through tenacity, make the shard permanent once it is summoned.
If CWs are going to continue being fragile in PVP, might as well give them some defensive abilities
How many players are on each team in Icewind dale pvp
Funny thing is, TRs have been the cream or near the top in PVP most of the times throughout neverwinter's history.
I guess part of it is that the class was intended for PVE 1v1 boss battles with lots of defensive abilities and it translated very very well to PVP.
Tenacity was supposed to solve a lot of these problems. They could simply add the code: for every 100 tenacity, reduce TR's damage to you by 3%.
Right now, tenacity is a blanket stat that affects all classes equally even though not all classes are equal in PVP. Hopefully, they will use the tenacity object and add some variables to it that can affect each class with different parameters.
These are understandable. Not perfect solutions either(it is a toughie)
1)actually I do believe this is true. Make GWFs sprint slightly slower, maybe?
2)Also needs a reasonable medium. Once the meter's gone, GFs go down fast. They also move slow as heck while they're guarding.
3)what do you mean by "magical type cc"? The CWs stuns/freezes are better than their prones. How unstoppable is unstoppable if entangling force chokes and grasps you until you get out of it?
4)weakening gap closers too much also equates into melee never able to reach range.
5)I already suggested an encounter capable of giving CWs the ability to target stealthier TRs. They should have something with this kind of purpose.
Not disagreeing with these, just that you have to watch how these might give too much to the CW.
I was originally under the impression that CWs were supposed to actually get a Control Bonus to compensate for tenacity... This currently seems untrue.
Also, a lot of TRs complaining that their damage went in the crapper too. They say that's why they prefer perma: would you rather do low damage, but be much harder to kill(perma), than low damage, and still easy to kill(non perma)?
TRs have a skill called shocking execution that is a better version of the CW's ice knife burst damage.
not a fair comparison since it was actually stronger pre-tenacity and just broke with tenacity. i still remember the age of 2-3 wizards spamming 1-shots from that daily 24/7......33k right from the start.
what broke it was the fact that it doesn't count armor pen on-top of the huge resist buff everyone got
The CC stuns briefly 3 times (2 times if you dodge it). Compared with the variety of stuns and prones a CW has it's benign.
What? 3 prones, an undodgable root, and a few stuns. That's worse than 2-3 mini stuns on like a 20 second cooldown?
Or, he can just immediately hit you with entangling after icy rays, drop a shard on your head, prone you twice, dealing lots of damage before you can even get the animation for constricting arrow off.
Just dodge when you have constricting on you and save your spellcasting for when it's on cooldown for the HR.
Yes, this^. The big thing I hear is that it's NOT supposed to work that way. That tenacity somehow broke it was something I have been hearing in the "complaints about TR" corner.
So my solution, increase slow severity on stacks of cold. Give CWs a temporary speed boost as a side effect with some of their skills. Give CWs some utility encounters, not all damage ones. Double CC duration, but increase cooldowns slightly. I wouldn't mind having a CW able to perma CC, as most classes have a way out of CC, or can dodge. Give CWs an encounter that only breaks CCs with a short cooldown around 12 seconds (before recovery). Reduce damage of CWs by 33%.
This solution should work both in PVE and PVP. In PVP, CWs get more control and are better able to stay at range, while dealing less damage. In PVE, CWs are better able to handle mobs but have their damage severely reduced.
If you look at other classes who are leading in PVP, most of their encounters are used for utility, not damage. Giving a CW an encounter to break CC, but forcing them to give up an encounter slot for it. Of course, the specific amounts to change things by will probably be very different than I suggested, but the idea is the point of this post.
I'd like to mention that simple solutions mentioned in this thread like increasing tankiness or damage will not work. Increasing damage will wreck PVE even more, while doing little for PVP. Increasing tankiness will take away the idea of playing a wizard type class.
To those that say that tankiness is the only way to be viable in the current PVP meta, I'll point out that CWs have been defending their dominance of PVE by claiming they are expecially suited to deal with the current PVE meta, AoE. If you claim that AoEs aren't overpowered in PVE, it's just bad dungeon design, others can claim tanks aren't overpowered in PVP, it's just bad map design. Hopefully we'll get more dungeon and PVP settings where different strengths can shine.
One last thing, DCs should also be looked at, as I consider CWs a DCs natural predator, so a buff to a CW hurts DCs particularly hard.
I am talking about the current system. Fix the current skills and balance (some of them are bugged, then fix the current bugs)
Who cares about the past? TRs had an OP lashing blade skill in the past too.
There, I named another OP skill in the past that has since changed. Am I playing the game right?
Holy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, someone in this thread has a brain.
These issues really need to be addressed. Bumped this post for the truth and hopefully some devs are reading. Not gonna press my luck but bumping posts doesn't cost money so it won't hurt at least.
Sure thing, go rally for PVE changes even though module 3 is PVP-focused.
I've stopped caring for PVE ever since the loot has been worthless.
If they balance CW in PVP to be equally as competitive as a perma-TR in the current PVP meta, then they can go balance it in PVE-scenario.
I think, first of all the bugs have to be fixed. Which means, as already stated:
1.) Armor Penetration working correctly for all powers.
2.) CC-resist-penetration (66% is stated) working correctly (I don't think it does now - the Entangling Force animation on my part takes sometimes longer than a player is actually lifted; ehm, yeah...). This also includes fixing the bug that deflected attacks reduce or even completely negate CC effects.
I disagree (for now) to make CWs tankier. CC should be a CWs defense. Tenacitys additional CC-resist mixed with the CC-resist-penetration seemingly not working - or not being high enough - and mixed with the bug that deflected attacks also reduce or even completely negate CC effects, was abysmal for CWs in PvP. Repel was a very important skill against basically all classes to interrupt and create distance, and is now being far from working consistent to do so.
If these bugs are fixed and the CW is still inferior, then you could think about further changes. But I think first you have to evaluate again when these bugs are fixed.
Eh no. How is an HR CC-immune half the time? Icy Rays is undodgable. Are you guys even using this skill?
As for the other things,
1. CWs have more dodges than most classes and the immunity timer is huge.
2. GF needs block, that's their deal. And you can freeze them through it, and once frozen you can do what you want to them. L2P issue here.
3. GWFs could never catch you then.
4. The gap closers have a delay on them after activation before you can use an ability making them not as great as they seem.
5. Are you getting hit with dazing strike or something?
Nope, sorry, just a whole lot of L2P issues going on here, not a brain.
i was just pointing out that u can't compare a skill that is working correctly to one that is now broken. it's simply not fair, but i do recall some people actually think it's fine if shocking was as weak as your ice knife currently and some of you mention 2-9k damage as your best ice knives. once every skill counts armor pen, then we can check again to see how bad your ice knives are.
and the difference between pre-tenacity and this overpowered lashing is a huge time gap that i wasn't even there for to know lashing was like that. i'm pretty sure everyone knows what pre-tenacitiy was like since it was the most recent, significant change. who knows what else was wrong with pvp way back then anyways.
"They don't" ? I will have to take a guess as to what you mean by that since it's rather vague.
You mean that DC's can't heal anyone in PvP, right? Well, wrong. If I have a DC next to me I will not die under reasonable scenarios. And if I fight someone who is not a squishy 8k gs CW then a DC there to heal him will make all the difference.
Don't get me started on DC healing DC, if they are close to geared and decent at what they do it will be a nightmare.
I laugh at anyone who says that DC's are useless in PvP. Thing is, a bad DC will look even worse than the same level of bad-anything else. Atm you can hardly tell the difference between a bad GWF and a good one. Same goes for cheese permas. No skill builds that doesn't require much of any effort at all.
I pug pvp exclusivly on a GF, and I disagree strongly that you can not tell the difference between a good perma and a bad one. GWF is easymode, but permas pay dearly for any mistakes they make.
Steel and Magic
for cw to be competitive in pvp as tr he must be able to win 1v1 against any class.
so why would someone play perma tr or gwf if he cant even cap a node against 1 cw.
and why would someone play combat tr when cw has way better burst cc and same survival.
Here are the issues
Right now CW is in such a God mode In pve.. It's completely overpowered and broken
The devs have already commented on this.. So it's well known
Any fixes to cw like the armor pen will not happen until they have fixed for pve. Yes these fixes are easy but you have to realise that they aren't fixing it on purpose because of the pve situation. Cw can not be buffed in anyway that affects pve.., so I would just accept that cw is the way it is until they can address the pve cw.. After that maybe they will get some pvp love but right now isn't going to happen
Absolutely not. What sets this game apart is its appeal to D&D fans. CWs are supposed to be frail characters who spend most of their time in the library, not pumping iron. CWs are supposed to be able to trick, stun, confuse, prone, and otherwise immobilize mobs, but not TANK them. They aren't melee fighters and never should be.
That is a gross misrepresentation. CW's are not OP. They have very high burst damage so they top the paingiver by doing tons of damage against trash mobs. In fact right now they are the most balanced class for PVE.
Since almost all the dungeons are built around endless hoards of adds, CW's are needed. Can you run dungeons without them? Sure, but then taking out the trash is more work - and not in a fun way. A GWF has far better sustained dps than a CW. On a single target encounter even a TR will outdamage a CW. Sadly TR's can't appropriately deal with endless hoards of adds, but that is a game design issue.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
I haven't seen them say that. If they have, then it is pretty clear that they don't bother playing their own game and further explains why so many classes are broken.
But more importantly it's an undisputed fact. If they run the numbers and take away ALL damage done to trash mobs, comparing comparably equipped and skilled players, a CW won't be in the top 3 for damage.