I understand your point, but not all encounters scale linearly with tenacity. If your hit rate with Shard drops below a certain point because of the decrease in the set-up CC then it becomes inefficient to use.
Missing with shard means you do zero CC and zero DPS with your Mastery encounter. That's a huge drop in overall effectiveness. You also compromise survivability as Shard use tends to limit movement. For these reasons I switched to Rays on tab for the improved damage and longer CC, COI for debuff/damage, RoE for more debuff and damage, with the 4th encounter either EF or CS depending on whether I'm playing aggressively or defensively. This gives me plenty of debuffs and DPS that I can use with short CDs and while dodging.
Works for me much better than Shard. Others are better with Shard and might still get it to work. It's all about what you can use effectively and playing to your strengths IMO.
Well, I agree you should play towards your strengths. I just very much recommend people really try using it on tab before using something else.
And the thing with missing it is it's still around unless you get bugged out by a daze. Usually I get multiple tries to hit someone with it, although the initial drop is the best because you can easily do the second prone right away before they get up.
I've been killing CWs left and right on my HR and I just met one that is good with shard and she kicked my ***.
I also brought out my CW who is gutted on enchants for my main the HR, just to see if I was remembering correctly, and she did great with it.
Nice post. I'm very impressed. I'm a girl by the way, so you're quite wrong with the man-crush thing. Other than this, I don't see why I would entertain you more. See you in the game, where you will probably remain in spawn and QQ when against my team
Well, I agree you should play towards your strengths. I just very much recommend people really try using it on tab before using something else.
And the thing with missing it is it's still around unless you get bugged out by a daze. Usually I get multiple tries to hit someone with it, although the initial drop is the best because you can easily do the second prone right away before they get up.
I've been killing CWs left and right on my HR and I just met one that is good with shard and she kicked my ***.
I also brought out my CW who is gutted on enchants for my main the HR, just to see if I was remembering correctly, and she did great with it.
Oddly, I have more trouble with Renegade mages than Shard throwers. I can dodge Shard, throw CA at them and that's normally game over. A Renegade has really short cast time and CD encounters that are easy to fire off even when under CA and do way more DPS - especially when a double RoE is eating away at your defences and HP.
The problem is not tenacity. The problem is that CW powers need to be readjusted based on the current effects of tenacity.
I don't know why few people are pointing out that atm HR control potential is way WAY better than a CW's in most situations. Atm even a survivability-focused HR with the right feats and some luck can more or less "control" something to death, given enough time. Considering Grasping Roots proc rate and the unique property it has that allows it to interrupt just about any action (including dodging), if you want a working template for how a CW should be performing in PvP your best is to simply take a careful look at the current state of the HR class. They're basically how CWs should be in PVP, except perhaps with less single target DPS but more burst/AoE damage potential. And squishier.
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
Repel is working as it used to against my halflings, almost not at all. Fought a few repel wizards earlier today and even as they were using Magic Missile and ray (so full stack all time basically), they couldn't achieve more than a small stun 50% of the times.
This is one of the biggest problems I'm having at the moment. I cannot rely on Repel as a "pusher" anymore. But it is an instant stun that can interrupt lots of rotations and that is enough to throw an Entangling Force immediately afterwards. I'm not happy with it, but you gotta take what you can get. I better be an HR/CW/GWF killer with decent burst than a punching bag that only becomes useful when my team would probably win 4v5 without me.
I wish we had more reliable control. On the other hand, I don't think that there is a better counter to HR than CW (Renegade).
So, nerfing Tenacity back to before? I think there is more to gain from nerfing HRs control powers and GWFs Unstoppable and TRs Stealth but breaking Tenacity down? I do not agree on that.
So, nerfing Tenacity back to before? I think there is more to gain from nerfing HRs control powers and GWFs Unstoppable and TRs Stealth but breaking Tenacity down? I do not agree on that.
So you proposing that 3 classes should be nerfed, so that the Control Wizard (one class) has a better time in PvP? Right on.
So, nerfing Tenacity back to before? I think there is more to gain from nerfing HRs control powers and GWFs Unstoppable and TRs Stealth but breaking Tenacity down? I do not agree on that.
quite frankly, chill is just a slow that needs to be stacked 7 times in order to freeze someone (which is the real cc part). for as long as that takes, having a debuff last longer than 1 second in pvp would be appreciated.
quite frankly, chill is just a slow that needs to be stacked 7 times in order to freeze someone (which is the real cc part). for as long as that takes, having a debuff last longer than 1 second in pvp would be appreciated.
Everything got a reason why it goes this way. Since it goes for one year and no one complained about it, i assume that every cw not very fond of "extending chill stacks duration by 1 sec". Maybe the duration is enough for them in pvp and extending it by one sec doesn't matter much. If i remember correctly, there are some feats that help to build chill stacks so i think you should take those feats if you want to maintain high freeze frequency on enemies. I don't play a cw, correct me if i am wrong.
Everything got a reason why it goes this way. Since it goes for one year and no one complained about it, i assume that every cw not very fond of "extending chill stacks duration by 1 sec". Maybe the duration is enough for them in pvp and extending it by one sec doesn't matter much. If i remember correctly, there are some feats that help to build chill stacks so i think you should take those feats if you want to maintain high freeze frequency on enemies. I don't play a cw, correct me if i am wrong.
you aren't wrong. it's just annoying that i lose the whole stack for dodging.
This is one of the biggest problems I'm having at the moment. I cannot rely on Repel as a "pusher" anymore. But it is an instant stun that can interrupt lots of rotations and that is enough to throw an Entangling Force immediately afterwards. I'm not happy with it, but you gotta take what you can get. I better be an HR/CW/GWF killer with decent burst than a punching bag that only becomes useful when my team would probably win 4v5 without me.
I wish we had more reliable control. On the other hand, I don't think that there is a better counter to HR than CW (Renegade).
I don't know why you guys keep bringing up the renegade spec as a counter to HR. I don't see anything in it besides some extra damage and so-so debuff from magic missle. Maybe I'm missing something?
CWs are by far the easiest prey for my HR if they aren't using shard. I 2v1ed a couple of ability spamming CWs today on my HR.
Without shard, my HR puts out more damage and even more CC than a CW. With it, they're equal. CW prone (shard) is harder to land, but it can prone twice so it's roughly equal to boar rush (and it does way more damage- does more damage than ice knife).
I'm going to shut up about shard though. After fighting a match where 2 CWs kicked our entire teams asses both with shard-on-tab, I'm scared CWs are reading this. The last thing my HR needs is every CW to be using shard on tab.
***
Back to the OP, after playing my CW a little more, I think the main thing that needs to happen is either:
- fix armor penetration so it works on all skills (ice knife is like a joke now)
- make the "CWs ignore a part of tenacity" actually meaningful. I'm not sure anyone has ever felt like a CW's control lasts longer than other classes.
When tenacity was introduced, it mentioned that CWs were going to be exceptional in that they will have inherent penetration of tenacity. So I'm guessing there's code for it already in the game. Whatever it is they need to at least double the effect.
So you proposing that 3 classes should be nerfed, so that the Control Wizard (one class) has a better time in PvP? Right on.
I do propose that some Powers are too effective after more and more playing with and against these Powers, actually just two classes (GWF and TR) seem to have Powers (Unstoppable and permanent Stealth) which are too effective. All classes are part of the whole picture and the whole picture is all that matters for a game and there is no need nor use to feed the ego trolls who just want to feel superior.
All this "buff me! buff my class!" has never brought about any good, it is no balancing is is only another patch for a patchwork rug.
I do, actually just two (GWF and TR) as all classes are part of the whole picture and the whole picture is all that matters for a game and there is no need nor use to feed the ego trolls who just want to feel superior.
All this "buff me! buff my class!" has never brought about any good, it is no balancing is is only another patch for a patchwork rug.
It would seemed to me that more good comes from buffs then nerfs. The nerfs can ruin an entire build, hurt pve or both. The CW fan base has probably put out enough suggestions to pool from to get a feasible buff. I play a gwif, I don't want any more nerf action than what is planned for mod 3. I don't want to see rogues hit either (sorry rogue haters) as I enjoy the competition on the end caps with a strong perma. What I do wanna see is the CWs get tossed a bone, make them competitive in pvp again so I have to worry about them. There is another class that really needs help, as well...
Buff 'em up, let them be capable of what they are supposed to be capable of and THEN see what needs to be toned down elsewhere. Cheers
It would seemed to me that more good comes from buffs then nerfs. The nerfs can ruin an entire build, hurt pve or both. The CW fan base has probably put out enough suggestions to pool from to get a feasible buff. I play a gwif, I don't want any more nerf action than what is planned for mod 3. I don't want to see rogues hit either (sorry rogue haters) as I enjoy the competition on the end caps with a strong perma. What I do wanna see is the CWs get tossed a bone, make them competitive in pvp again so I have to worry about them. There is another class that really needs help, as well...
Buff 'em up, let them be capable of what they are supposed to be capable of and THEN see what needs to be toned down elsewhere. Cheers
I played PWI, I saw there and on other games where this buff race leads to and I see no reason for Cryptic to do the same mistakes made so often before. If CW gets buffed then the other classes whine about it and demand a buff too and noone thinks here about the impact of this buff race in PvE and it will hit PvE likewise. Should CWs get so much buffed till Tenacity is evened out? No reason to implement Tenacity and then render it useless with demanded buffs; other classes are also affected by it and GFs whine also about it and want their control power enhanced: where should this lead to? Power Creep is never the answer we should desire.
I do, actually just two (GWF and TR) as all classes are part of the whole picture and the whole picture is all that matters for a game and there is no need nor use to feed the ego trolls who just want to feel superior.
All this "buff me! buff my class!" has never brought about any good, it is no balancing is is only another patch for a patchwork rug.
What you don't understand is the fact that this is a F2P MMO, not a subscription one. What that means is that many people buy extremely expensive stuff - specifically for certain builds. And most of the time with lots of REAL MONEY. One good example was the Tenebrous enchant.
You cannot entice people to spend 1000 USD on a new toon they specifically made for PvP superiority, with all the bells and whistles including new type of Rank 10 enchants and 3 artifacts, then in 1-2 months destroy their investment (which is happening already in this game). There are legal customer protections against this type of thing.
So what I am saying is that if developers are incompetent enough to put truly OP classes and builds out there, then they should get their act together and balance properly BEFORE preview content goes live, where we spend lots of real money.
"Nerfing" our significant investments in our leisure time is not the answer. Buff the suffering class (here the CW) to be on par with the already OP GWF/TR/HR. With buffing, you can ensure that you will keep your customers happy, as their investment is not devalued to the point of uselessness (see again Tenebrous, nobody uses them anymore, and soon the Emblem of Seldarine will be useless too).
What you don't understand is the fact that this is a F2P MMO, not a subscription one. What that means is that many people buy extremely expensive stuff - specifically for certain builds. And most of the time with lots of REAL MONEY. One good example was the Tenebrous enchant.
You cannot entice people to spend 1000 USD on a new toon they specifically made for PvP superiority, with all the bells and whistles including new type of Rank 10 enchants and 3 artifacts, then in 1-2 months destroy their investment (which is happening already in this game). There are legal customer protections against this type of thing.
So what I am saying is that if developers are incompetent enough to put truly OP classes and builds out there, then they should get their act together and balance properly BEFORE preview content goes live, where we spend lots of real money.
"Nerfing" our significant investments in our leisure time is not the answer. Buff the suffering class (here the CW) to be on par with the already OP GWF/TR/HR. With buffing, you can ensure that you will keep your customers happy, as their investment is not devalued to the point of uselessness (see again Tenebrous, nobody uses them anymore, and soon the Emblem of Seldarine will be useless too).
Though I understand your frustration about having your 100+ dollar investment become useless, know that you actually don't own anything that you paid for in any online game. Rather it is "leased" to you and can be changed at any time. So what devs have been doing is perfectly legal if not a questionable business model.
Now i wasn't here when Tenes were OP in pvp but it was so obvious that emblem was going to get nerfed given how having an emblem essentially breaks pvp all together. With emblem, GPFs and bilethorn becomes worse than useless because of DoT healing the enemy far more than anyone can damage them. These two weapon enchantments are the BiS weapon enchantments for anyone wanting to take down Pvp tanks that dominate pvp, so tankiness becomes horrendously op with absolutely no counters. Emblem also breaks class abilities that do a DoT, like deep gash, ray of enfeeblement and aimed strike for hrs, which also happens that most of these DoT abilities were also designed to COUNTER high defense/ deflect mitigation builds as well. So you have an artifact that breaks 2 of the best pvp weapon enchants in the game, as well as a number of other classes' abilities, and you thought that emblem was not going to get nerfed? really its your fault for putting money into an item that is so obviously broken that it negated the value of two very popular weapon enchants and a host of class abilities that aren't really optional.
What you don't understand is the fact that this is a F2P MMO, not a subscription one. What that means is that many people buy extremely expensive stuff - specifically for certain builds. And most of the time with lots of REAL MONEY. One good example was the Tenebrous enchant.
You cannot entice people to spend 1000 USD on a new toon they specifically made for PvP superiority, with all the bells and whistles including new type of Rank 10 enchants and 3 artifacts, then in 1-2 months destroy their investment (which is happening already in this game). There are legal customer protections against this type of thing.
So what I am saying is that if developers are incompetent enough to put truly OP classes and builds out there, then they should get their act together and balance properly BEFORE preview content goes live, where we spend lots of real money.
"Nerfing" our significant investments in our leisure time is not the answer. Buff the suffering class (here the CW) to be on par with the already OP GWF/TR/HR. With buffing, you can ensure that you will keep your customers happy, as their investment is not devalued to the point of uselessness (see again Tenebrous, nobody uses them anymore, and soon the Emblem of Seldarine will be useless too).
Sorry to tell you that GFs spent much money for certain things which got nerfed afterwards and back there they used the same arguments.
But you know what? If you cannot afford money, why do you do it? If you do, what do you expect? If PWE decides that Neverwinter is not worth running, they can stop this service at any time. So not wise to threaten them.
I did spent much money too on gear which is now useless (I had Tenebrous Enchantments, I had the Stalwart Bulwark set, I have even now more than one set, I had to reset my toon and so on) but after all, your argument is not valid because you talk about builds and builds do not need much money. Good luck next time to make a valid point.
Only thing I agree totally is the problem with Armour Penetration which needs to be fixed, this is overdue.
All propositions here mostly consist of enhancing control power or damage or weaken Tenacity: not very creative. And whilst we are at propositions from players: some GF player dreams of the GF as a future melee version of the CW with much control power
Problem in these forums is that you cannot discuss with people cause they are always angry and throw in all kinds of petty insults without making any actual points.
Also your "nerf these classes!" posts are against the rules, so I really don't know why they are still present. I shouldn't even argue with any of you, the moderators should throw your "nerf" posts directly to the trash bin.
Problem in these forums is that you cannot discuss with people cause they are always angry and throw in all kinds of petty insults without making any actual points.
Also your "nerf these classes!" posts are against the rules, so I really don't know why they are still present. I shouldn't even argue with any of you, the moderators should throw your "nerf" posts directly to the trash bin.
I would never dare to tell the devs what they have to do, moreover I trust them in keeping things balanced as best as they can; I posted my point of view and wanted to make my point against other points here and my point of view is no cry for buffs but I want to discuss to find more appropriate ideas to help the devs if possible.
Discussion is allowed, by the way, I think you speak of Rule 3.15 , did you not? Posts are subject to this rule if they are not written as a discussion but only as a demand.
Funny I play pvp every day... and I haven't seen a nice friendly match there all serious and I'm talking from lvl 10 threw 60 with every class... But I still find your "brown nosing" amusing..
Respect for a pier/friend is not publicly announcing there achievements in forums...
and Insinuating I am A scrub is a guy that thinks he's fly
And is also known as a buster
Always talkin' about what he wants
And just sits on his broke ***
A scrub is a guy that cant get no love from me
Hanging out the passenger side
Of his best-friend's ride
Trying to holler at me
Look at that scrub thinkin he can holla at me.
YOUR FOOLING YOUR SELF TOADWART...
Your man crush IS wrong... and so are you.
CW need help in pvp tenacity DID make all other classes have a unfair advantage over them there control and dmg is all that set them apart... and there only defense.
most matches are not 2 groups zerging around in a constant skirmish there isolates 2 on 2 or 2 on 1 on individual nodes you already know this if you haven't seen this by now I welcome you to step down from you ivory tower back into the trenches where the real pvp is happening, without there control and now reduced dmg due to tenacity as well and no real support combined with the fact a wizard is a S.E.T that's slow easy target for any class.
every class with the exception of clerics who also need some love, have armor pen and good armor pen a wizard has cloth armor that's right... its a guy in pajamas slinging spells that now have control effects that last only a few seconds at best and a second usually and is against other classes which can cut him to ribbons in seconds.
there are 2 Classes that are all but immune to control anyway GWF and GF then there are clerics as hard and harder to kill than tanks thanks to gear and enhancements and there astral shield, and a TR who in pvp is almost always a perma stealth shark in the dark water's... TR who's control works better in pvp than a CW and can stealth away and self heal and or interrupt our encounters thanks to long activation times...
Look here lackyboy every person responding on this thread play pvp and as such have experience, and yes not all have epic gear and play in a pvp guild and have a pure pvp toon.. and thats fine.
to assume they and I Dont know SQUAT...
KID YOUR THE ONE Hanging out the passenger side
Of his best-friend's ride
Trying to holler at me; and tell me how great you are.
you post had nothing to do with the issue being discussed and trashing someone for there opinion on the issue at hand when they never personally attack the person only the opinion is a double whammy of stupidity.
Also it shows your age kid!
You and many other are so wrapped up in winning any match. you will argue to keep the cloth punching bag for what... your leader board score?
If you are so elite why not roll a cw not use any AD resources you may have earned for your enhancements and gear and pvp as a wizard to lvl 60 pug style.
like any new player and see pvp from a new player and a "lack of control wizards" P.O.V you will see what ppl here are saying is true.
There not crying wolf or begging for an edge; there trying to to get just a little more even ground that tenacity took away.
you might start singing a different tune when your the punching bag for change.
What you don't understand is the fact that this is a F2P MMO, not a subscription one. What that means is that many people buy extremely expensive stuff - specifically for certain builds. And most of the time with lots of REAL MONEY. One good example was the Tenebrous enchant.
You cannot entice people to spend 1000 USD on a new toon they specifically made for PvP superiority, with all the bells and whistles including new type of Rank 10 enchants and 3 artifacts, then in 1-2 months destroy their investment (which is happening already in this game). There are legal customer protections against this type of thing.
So what I am saying is that if developers are incompetent enough to put truly OP classes and builds out there, then they should get their act together and balance properly BEFORE preview content goes live, where we spend lots of real money.
"Nerfing" our significant investments in our leisure time is not the answer. Buff the suffering class (here the CW) to be on par with the already OP GWF/TR/HR. With buffing, you can ensure that you will keep your customers happy, as their investment is not devalued to the point of uselessness (see again Tenebrous, nobody uses them anymore, and soon the Emblem of Seldarine will be useless too).
carefully read the liscence you acepted just after instaling the game , before you create your first character , they protected themself very well. no matter if its real money of not
I second this :cool:. I hear this all the time. Its the people "hanging out the passenger's side of their friend's ride" who trash talk WAAAY more than the friend who's driving his ride lol. As has been said before, obviously most, if not all, of the people in here have some form of pvp experience.
Most of the people I end up arguing with are these types of people. Theyre too busy trying to keep on their teammates shoulders, and benefit from their awesomeness. 9 out of 10 times, these guys couldn't do squat by themselves. I respect the person who makes a name for themselves, or at least tries to be a stand alone person, than someone who rides his awesome friend's success.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
You cannot entice people to spend 1000 USD on a new toon they specifically made for PvP superiority, with all the bells and whistles including new type of Rank 10 enchants and 3 artifacts, then in 1-2 months destroy their investment (which is happening already in this game). There are legal customer protections against this type of thing.
While I agree with you, that the devs really should balance things before they release them you cannot believe what i quoted.
I play since beta, have followed countless posts and pvp and farming streams (cn cn cn cn cn … one shotting draco ... cn cn cn) and watched the pvp community very closely. Its a fairy tale that the most "elite" pvp players have spent so much money on their stuff. Most members of famous / infamous guilds claim actually to have never bought gear with real money. And the few who have, used the goldsellers, disguising their activities with multiple accounts (how many do u have, "proni"? :-D)
I just want to shatter this silly myth that pvplers spending huge amounts of cash. Its very rare. So your initial argument remains valid (dont release super unbalanced stuff) the other points are just not. The infamous "elite" players have contributed very little to this game in regards of oeconomical value. But they are very good in bragging how good they are (epeening, ops, ur a girl, arent u?
Some players exploited or farmed or played AH for large amounts of AD.
Others bought their gear because they have businesses and kids and families and have little time to "enjoy" these time-consuming activities.
You have to understand that it's a matter of simple economics. You calculate the amount of time you need to farm a certain quantity of AD. Then, you calculate the amount of real money you can be making in that time by taking care of real life business. From that point, I'd say a decision should be straightforward and simple to make.
Also I have tried to farm as well, just as I did in other MMOs. It didn't work out here. This game is thought out in such a way that it will annoy you to death with boring repetitive badly designed dungeons long before you can make any significant amount of AD.
Now that this is out of the way, how about focusing on the CW thing. Hopefully in such a (constructive) way that will leave the classes that I play most relatively intact. The next module already sunk its teeth pretty badly into my GWF and some of my toons will have to replace the emblems. So much AD, probably going to end up just as refining material.
Anyone else remember when GWF's were considered super weak in PVP and PVE back in the early days of Neverwinter. Recall how CW's were great at pvp, before some changes to different things.
I bring this up just for a few reasons. Remember CW's all using the same build with HV set? Either Ren or Thaum but usallly always same encounter and at will and daily set up? CoI, RoE, EF, IR(orCS) and always Ice Knife? Before anyone realized how great shard was in Tab? Or how great it is to half cast/cancel steal time to kite multiple melee opponents? I always thought Shard on tab and steal time canceling was awesome, I am also a fan of using MoC to facetank when I was a spell storm mage and cancel half cast if it wasn't going to connect with my target.(MoC breaks you from CC except prone for those that don't know. so yea in a way CW have a sort of CC break.)Or even using icy terrain in tab slot and pushing people back on to it with push and ice storm(ice storm opressor build add 5 stacks of chill land on icy terrain and freeze)
Things seem to stay difficult because the majority of players keeps trying to do things the same way for as long as they can, it seems foolish to test and dabble with different ideas because it would hurt your gamer-ego or something? I am not sure. Who cares about the score board, if you are doing what is needed to win - I will go 0 and 12 if I have to to win. It is my job to mess with everyone all the time, and sure get focused because it is inevitable. When you can dodge well and make 3 people all miss their encounters or dailys because they are spamming stuff on you so quick you have just effectively tanked ... avoidance tanking mind you but we do have it - can't believe no one see it that way. I am not saying go out there and get focused over and over and try to be a pure avoidance tank, but it is just a different way of looking at things. The silver lining i guess of being focused.
Most recently I am dabbling with Shield on Tab, Fanning Flames, Chill Strike and Repel
Shield on tab with Barkshield armor enchant and Life Drinker wep enchant. 10.6% lifesteal and 7% or so regen. Not a lot of hit points, thus this wacky idea I am using. It is actually quite fun and effective. I know that Repel doesnt always actually repel people but that short stun is very nice as well, with its cooldown being so low it is very close to spammy. I find qith this build I some how seem to have more viability in pvp , live longer and feel like I am in more control than when I am trying to actually go full control spells. It's weird to explain but it's fun. It is great to just eat a prone chain and stand up with a bunch of HP left since shield and barkskin absorbed a good bit. (Shiled on tab is 80% reduction for first hit 50% for non master slot, and 10% reduction as long as it is activated. found those tested stats on this CW forum )
TL;DR
I apologize for the ramblings, the bottom line is - keep changing it up, do weird stuff that you HAVE A PLAN FOR. I guarantee people are not going to know how to counteract or anticipate your moves. Also, swap out spells mid fight as needed - don't just have one set up that you are familiar with for pvp. Different team set ups call for different spells.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Comments
Well, I agree you should play towards your strengths. I just very much recommend people really try using it on tab before using something else.
And the thing with missing it is it's still around unless you get bugged out by a daze. Usually I get multiple tries to hit someone with it, although the initial drop is the best because you can easily do the second prone right away before they get up.
I've been killing CWs left and right on my HR and I just met one that is good with shard and she kicked my ***.
I also brought out my CW who is gutted on enchants for my main the HR, just to see if I was remembering correctly, and she did great with it.
Nice post. I'm very impressed. I'm a girl by the way, so you're quite wrong with the man-crush thing. Other than this, I don't see why I would entertain you more. See you in the game, where you will probably remain in spawn and QQ when against my team
Goes to show how experiences differ.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
I don't know why few people are pointing out that atm HR control potential is way WAY better than a CW's in most situations. Atm even a survivability-focused HR with the right feats and some luck can more or less "control" something to death, given enough time. Considering Grasping Roots proc rate and the unique property it has that allows it to interrupt just about any action (including dodging), if you want a working template for how a CW should be performing in PvP your best is to simply take a careful look at the current state of the HR class. They're basically how CWs should be in PVP, except perhaps with less single target DPS but more burst/AoE damage potential. And squishier.
This is one of the biggest problems I'm having at the moment. I cannot rely on Repel as a "pusher" anymore. But it is an instant stun that can interrupt lots of rotations and that is enough to throw an Entangling Force immediately afterwards. I'm not happy with it, but you gotta take what you can get. I better be an HR/CW/GWF killer with decent burst than a punching bag that only becomes useful when my team would probably win 4v5 without me.
I wish we had more reliable control. On the other hand, I don't think that there is a better counter to HR than CW (Renegade).
i may not be 60, but i doubt losing chill after i dodge or get interrupted is gonna change much.
So you proposing that 3 classes should be nerfed, so that the Control Wizard (one class) has a better time in PvP? Right on.
quite frankly, chill is just a slow that needs to be stacked 7 times in order to freeze someone (which is the real cc part). for as long as that takes, having a debuff last longer than 1 second in pvp would be appreciated.
Everything got a reason why it goes this way. Since it goes for one year and no one complained about it, i assume that every cw not very fond of "extending chill stacks duration by 1 sec". Maybe the duration is enough for them in pvp and extending it by one sec doesn't matter much. If i remember correctly, there are some feats that help to build chill stacks so i think you should take those feats if you want to maintain high freeze frequency on enemies. I don't play a cw, correct me if i am wrong.
you aren't wrong. it's just annoying that i lose the whole stack for dodging.
I don't know why you guys keep bringing up the renegade spec as a counter to HR. I don't see anything in it besides some extra damage and so-so debuff from magic missle. Maybe I'm missing something?
CWs are by far the easiest prey for my HR if they aren't using shard. I 2v1ed a couple of ability spamming CWs today on my HR.
Without shard, my HR puts out more damage and even more CC than a CW. With it, they're equal. CW prone (shard) is harder to land, but it can prone twice so it's roughly equal to boar rush (and it does way more damage- does more damage than ice knife).
I'm going to shut up about shard though. After fighting a match where 2 CWs kicked our entire teams asses both with shard-on-tab, I'm scared CWs are reading this. The last thing my HR needs is every CW to be using shard on tab.
***
Back to the OP, after playing my CW a little more, I think the main thing that needs to happen is either:
- fix armor penetration so it works on all skills (ice knife is like a joke now)
- make the "CWs ignore a part of tenacity" actually meaningful. I'm not sure anyone has ever felt like a CW's control lasts longer than other classes.
When tenacity was introduced, it mentioned that CWs were going to be exceptional in that they will have inherent penetration of tenacity. So I'm guessing there's code for it already in the game. Whatever it is they need to at least double the effect.
I do propose that some Powers are too effective after more and more playing with and against these Powers, actually just two classes (GWF and TR) seem to have Powers (Unstoppable and permanent Stealth) which are too effective. All classes are part of the whole picture and the whole picture is all that matters for a game and there is no need nor use to feed the ego trolls who just want to feel superior.
All this "buff me! buff my class!" has never brought about any good, it is no balancing is is only another patch for a patchwork rug.
It would seemed to me that more good comes from buffs then nerfs. The nerfs can ruin an entire build, hurt pve or both. The CW fan base has probably put out enough suggestions to pool from to get a feasible buff. I play a gwif, I don't want any more nerf action than what is planned for mod 3. I don't want to see rogues hit either (sorry rogue haters) as I enjoy the competition on the end caps with a strong perma. What I do wanna see is the CWs get tossed a bone, make them competitive in pvp again so I have to worry about them. There is another class that really needs help, as well...
Buff 'em up, let them be capable of what they are supposed to be capable of and THEN see what needs to be toned down elsewhere. Cheers
I played PWI, I saw there and on other games where this buff race leads to and I see no reason for Cryptic to do the same mistakes made so often before. If CW gets buffed then the other classes whine about it and demand a buff too and noone thinks here about the impact of this buff race in PvE and it will hit PvE likewise. Should CWs get so much buffed till Tenacity is evened out? No reason to implement Tenacity and then render it useless with demanded buffs; other classes are also affected by it and GFs whine also about it and want their control power enhanced: where should this lead to? Power Creep is never the answer we should desire.
What you don't understand is the fact that this is a F2P MMO, not a subscription one. What that means is that many people buy extremely expensive stuff - specifically for certain builds. And most of the time with lots of REAL MONEY. One good example was the Tenebrous enchant.
You cannot entice people to spend 1000 USD on a new toon they specifically made for PvP superiority, with all the bells and whistles including new type of Rank 10 enchants and 3 artifacts, then in 1-2 months destroy their investment (which is happening already in this game). There are legal customer protections against this type of thing.
So what I am saying is that if developers are incompetent enough to put truly OP classes and builds out there, then they should get their act together and balance properly BEFORE preview content goes live, where we spend lots of real money.
"Nerfing" our significant investments in our leisure time is not the answer. Buff the suffering class (here the CW) to be on par with the already OP GWF/TR/HR. With buffing, you can ensure that you will keep your customers happy, as their investment is not devalued to the point of uselessness (see again Tenebrous, nobody uses them anymore, and soon the Emblem of Seldarine will be useless too).
Though I understand your frustration about having your 100+ dollar investment become useless, know that you actually don't own anything that you paid for in any online game. Rather it is "leased" to you and can be changed at any time. So what devs have been doing is perfectly legal if not a questionable business model.
Now i wasn't here when Tenes were OP in pvp but it was so obvious that emblem was going to get nerfed given how having an emblem essentially breaks pvp all together. With emblem, GPFs and bilethorn becomes worse than useless because of DoT healing the enemy far more than anyone can damage them. These two weapon enchantments are the BiS weapon enchantments for anyone wanting to take down Pvp tanks that dominate pvp, so tankiness becomes horrendously op with absolutely no counters. Emblem also breaks class abilities that do a DoT, like deep gash, ray of enfeeblement and aimed strike for hrs, which also happens that most of these DoT abilities were also designed to COUNTER high defense/ deflect mitigation builds as well. So you have an artifact that breaks 2 of the best pvp weapon enchants in the game, as well as a number of other classes' abilities, and you thought that emblem was not going to get nerfed? really its your fault for putting money into an item that is so obviously broken that it negated the value of two very popular weapon enchants and a host of class abilities that aren't really optional.
Sorry to tell you that GFs spent much money for certain things which got nerfed afterwards and back there they used the same arguments.
But you know what? If you cannot afford money, why do you do it? If you do, what do you expect? If PWE decides that Neverwinter is not worth running, they can stop this service at any time. So not wise to threaten them.
I did spent much money too on gear which is now useless (I had Tenebrous Enchantments, I had the Stalwart Bulwark set, I have even now more than one set, I had to reset my toon and so on) but after all, your argument is not valid because you talk about builds and builds do not need much money. Good luck next time to make a valid point.
Only thing I agree totally is the problem with Armour Penetration which needs to be fixed, this is overdue.
All propositions here mostly consist of enhancing control power or damage or weaken Tenacity: not very creative. And whilst we are at propositions from players: some GF player dreams of the GF as a future melee version of the CW with much control power
Also your "nerf these classes!" posts are against the rules, so I really don't know why they are still present. I shouldn't even argue with any of you, the moderators should throw your "nerf" posts directly to the trash bin.
I would never dare to tell the devs what they have to do, moreover I trust them in keeping things balanced as best as they can; I posted my point of view and wanted to make my point against other points here and my point of view is no cry for buffs but I want to discuss to find more appropriate ideas to help the devs if possible.
Discussion is allowed, by the way, I think you speak of Rule 3.15 , did you not? Posts are subject to this rule if they are not written as a discussion but only as a demand.
+1 i hope he will understand:rolleyes:
carefully read the liscence you acepted just after instaling the game , before you create your first character , they protected themself very well. no matter if its real money of not
I second this :cool:. I hear this all the time. Its the people "hanging out the passenger's side of their friend's ride" who trash talk WAAAY more than the friend who's driving his ride lol. As has been said before, obviously most, if not all, of the people in here have some form of pvp experience.
Most of the people I end up arguing with are these types of people. Theyre too busy trying to keep on their teammates shoulders, and benefit from their awesomeness. 9 out of 10 times, these guys couldn't do squat by themselves. I respect the person who makes a name for themselves, or at least tries to be a stand alone person, than someone who rides his awesome friend's success.
While I agree with you, that the devs really should balance things before they release them you cannot believe what i quoted.
I play since beta, have followed countless posts and pvp and farming streams (cn cn cn cn cn … one shotting draco ... cn cn cn) and watched the pvp community very closely. Its a fairy tale that the most "elite" pvp players have spent so much money on their stuff. Most members of famous / infamous guilds claim actually to have never bought gear with real money. And the few who have, used the goldsellers, disguising their activities with multiple accounts (how many do u have, "proni"? :-D)
I just want to shatter this silly myth that pvplers spending huge amounts of cash. Its very rare. So your initial argument remains valid (dont release super unbalanced stuff) the other points are just not. The infamous "elite" players have contributed very little to this game in regards of oeconomical value. But they are very good in bragging how good they are (epeening, ops, ur a girl, arent u?
Others bought their gear because they have businesses and kids and families and have little time to "enjoy" these time-consuming activities.
You have to understand that it's a matter of simple economics. You calculate the amount of time you need to farm a certain quantity of AD. Then, you calculate the amount of real money you can be making in that time by taking care of real life business. From that point, I'd say a decision should be straightforward and simple to make.
Also I have tried to farm as well, just as I did in other MMOs. It didn't work out here. This game is thought out in such a way that it will annoy you to death with boring repetitive badly designed dungeons long before you can make any significant amount of AD.
Now that this is out of the way, how about focusing on the CW thing. Hopefully in such a (constructive) way that will leave the classes that I play most relatively intact. The next module already sunk its teeth pretty badly into my GWF and some of my toons will have to replace the emblems. So much AD, probably going to end up just as refining material.
I bring this up just for a few reasons. Remember CW's all using the same build with HV set? Either Ren or Thaum but usallly always same encounter and at will and daily set up? CoI, RoE, EF, IR(orCS) and always Ice Knife? Before anyone realized how great shard was in Tab? Or how great it is to half cast/cancel steal time to kite multiple melee opponents? I always thought Shard on tab and steal time canceling was awesome, I am also a fan of using MoC to facetank when I was a spell storm mage and cancel half cast if it wasn't going to connect with my target.(MoC breaks you from CC except prone for those that don't know. so yea in a way CW have a sort of CC break.)Or even using icy terrain in tab slot and pushing people back on to it with push and ice storm(ice storm opressor build add 5 stacks of chill land on icy terrain and freeze)
Things seem to stay difficult because the majority of players keeps trying to do things the same way for as long as they can, it seems foolish to test and dabble with different ideas because it would hurt your gamer-ego or something? I am not sure. Who cares about the score board, if you are doing what is needed to win - I will go 0 and 12 if I have to to win. It is my job to mess with everyone all the time, and sure get focused because it is inevitable. When you can dodge well and make 3 people all miss their encounters or dailys because they are spamming stuff on you so quick you have just effectively tanked ... avoidance tanking mind you but we do have it - can't believe no one see it that way. I am not saying go out there and get focused over and over and try to be a pure avoidance tank, but it is just a different way of looking at things. The silver lining i guess of being focused.
Most recently I am dabbling with Shield on Tab, Fanning Flames, Chill Strike and Repel
Shield on tab with Barkshield armor enchant and Life Drinker wep enchant. 10.6% lifesteal and 7% or so regen. Not a lot of hit points, thus this wacky idea I am using. It is actually quite fun and effective. I know that Repel doesnt always actually repel people but that short stun is very nice as well, with its cooldown being so low it is very close to spammy. I find qith this build I some how seem to have more viability in pvp , live longer and feel like I am in more control than when I am trying to actually go full control spells. It's weird to explain but it's fun. It is great to just eat a prone chain and stand up with a bunch of HP left since shield and barkskin absorbed a good bit. (Shiled on tab is 80% reduction for first hit 50% for non master slot, and 10% reduction as long as it is activated. found those tested stats on this CW forum )
TL;DR
I apologize for the ramblings, the bottom line is - keep changing it up, do weird stuff that you HAVE A PLAN FOR. I guarantee people are not going to know how to counteract or anticipate your moves. Also, swap out spells mid fight as needed - don't just have one set up that you are familiar with for pvp. Different team set ups call for different spells.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter