"3. GF-Villians menace, enforced threat, and frontline surge. This class is most vulnerable to stealth TRs, however with block, they are gonna have to face tank you eventually as you can block any ranged attacks. "
Are you for real?
Villains menace is the worst daily of a GF and i am going to waste a slot to it?Nope.
Enforced threat???????????????????Enforced threat?? Enforced threat?????????
An encounter that does 2-3k dmg to a single target??? lol
Frontline surge??And where do i know where he is??I have to know at least in general?Since we talking about stealth i don't.
Or you propose to waste my enc and dailies and then the rogue spams beside me and SE and from 37k hp to 16??And with all my enc and dailies on cooldown??
And about block.
Bilethorn reduces block meter to 0.Any not silly rogue waits the GM to go to 0 then SE then goes to a 15-16k remained GF into melee.TR has 28-30K hp and all his enc ready?
Guess who wins.Sorry but i think your "proposals" to avoid the inevitable "nerf" to your hide and seek cheating ,eh sorry i meant playing.
You remind me of the GWfs who made ridicoulous proposals to avoid their rebalance,like to stay still and not attack them during unstopable and then attack them when you have 20kHP and their 38k hp. Deja vu again.
You know what I have decided will end this debate once and for all?
Set the pvp queue to work like the dungeon queues except require that all teams have 1 TR on their teams and then block any other TR's from joining. Once the match starts, each TR is deposited in the other teams base and all other players immediately start at point 2. Each base is blocked and cannot be entered by anyone but that TR that started there. That way we only have to contend with the one point and everyone will stop complaining about TR's
either that or just ban the class from PVP entirely because as soon as both stealth and SE are nerfed there will be some thing else to complain about. I would expect another nerf to lashing blade and POB's to come before Mod 4.
Ok, I used Steal Time, then what? May be I was lucky to catch him, but then he dodges back into stealth or uses ITC.
Ok, I knocked him down, but with 35%+ deflect and 28k+ HP I will barely do any damage, even if I crit. Even if I managed to hit him for 28k+ damage with 3 encounters+daily, soulforged will resurrect him and he will run away no matter what I will try to do.
Ok, I landed my combo, dealt some nice damage which was enough to brought the TR below 50% health. He won't leave this node, he will hide behind the column making you think that he ran to a pot. Then, after regening some HP back he will return to the node.
I don't understand what you're complaining about, you popped the rogue out of stealth, controlled him, procced his soulforged and made him run away, and you don't consider that winning? If he's hiding behind the column, you're capping the point and regenerating health as well.
Anyway, there are some holes in your argument,
1) When you pop a rogue out of stealth, he generally can't immediately go back into stealth as his shadow strike is on cooldown. Yes he can use ITC, but he'll still have a ~10 second wait to go back in stealth if you popped him soon after he went into stealth. The only time he can immediately go back into stealth, is if it's the first rotation of his stealth, and he has everything off cooldown. Anyway, if you can pop him once you can pop him everytime, so you shouldn't have a problem with him hiding.
2)Are you saying that with 28k HP and 35% deflect a rogue is tanky? I don't think anyone else is arguing that perma rogues are tanky. They are the squishiest class after CWs.
A side point, Rogues don't generally have the lowest AP gain, especially in a 1v1 fight. Other classes can't build AP if they can't hit you, while shadow strike and ITC build a rogues AP. Technically, if no effort is made to remove a rogue from stealth, he can just SS, BnS, ITC, and CoS until his daily is up and then finish you without ever getting into melee range. Of course, then his entire damage is 8 hits of Cloud of steel per 24 seconds, so the fight is going to take minutes at the minimum. This of course, is assuming you can't pop a rogue out of stealth, which I consider and incorrect assumption.
People complaining about tr should realy make one and try it.
Played all class in pvp other than gf....
CW are glass but they do CC and a lot of damage
Gwf are made of steel and hit like a truck and can nearly stun lock you till death...
Hr are fast, have complet movability, do damage like crazy single or multy targets have stealth/disrupt and CC
Dc are tanky and help all other member in the fight...
perma have 1 thing, they hide... Their CC last for 3 second and a real perma wont use it, they do ****ty damage compared to any other class, if they get caught out of stealth they are dead or have to retreat
Removing stealth = deaths of tr..
TR have been the target of nerf for to long already. I am not againts removing perma stealth IF and ONLY IF that mean a complete rework of the class to make em viable in pve (dont go like ''haa they can solo dungeon'' they could maby do it yea in like 5 hours per run, therefor not viable in pve) AND in pvp.
Tr is mainly a pvp class as it is right now so i think it is fair to say that if they have a slight advantage in pvp compare to the top dps/utility class in pve is ok (cw, since they are mostly the crying class that already cryed for a year to become the most powerfull class of all, well THIS is not balance, balance = you can beat some people and some people can beat you)
Perma tr is BUILDED to counter a CW's control. You ain't happy about it and i can understand but you should also understand that YOU CAN NOT BE THE BEST AT EVERYTHING IN A GAME AND CALL IT BALANCED!
Founder back a week ago, already pissed by cryptic ''no roll back'' decision
You know what I have decided will end this debate once and for all?
Set the pvp queue to work like the dungeon queues except require that all teams have 1 TR on their teams and then block any other TR's from joining. Once the match starts, each TR is deposited in the other teams base and all other players immediately start at point 2. Each base is blocked and cannot be entered by anyone but that TR that started there. That way we only have to contend with the one point and everyone will stop complaining about TR's
either that or just ban the class from PVP entirely because as soon as both stealth and SE are nerfed there will be some thing else to complain about. I would expect another nerf to lashing blade and POB's to come before Mod 4.
i loled
But i was sad that you forgot to remove the run speed while stealth because they should not be able to get to a point before other..
Should also nerf their defense more imo cuz my icy knife still cant 1hit them....
By the way, archer hold me on place and disrupt my 5minutes casting spell, its too strong imo...
I also have a suggestion for a new spell, should be called ''Wrath of gods'' and debuff/stun all enemy in place because i mean im a CONTROL wizard after all...
Founder back a week ago, already pissed by cryptic ''no roll back'' decision
I think that even though CW's are not very good in 1 vs 1 in pvp, they shine in a group. Thye can be most dangerous and most of the times I die it's because a CW's cc and a GWF proning me to death. So even though you might not win in a 1 vs 1, in a group you can really help and make a difference.
I'm a bit curious though, CW's are the best in group damage and control, but you also want to beat a class that is built for single target burst damage (and is only useful for that) in a 1 on 1?
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm a bit curious though, CW's are the best in group damage and control, but you also want to beat a class that is built for single target burst damage (and is only useful for that) in a 1 on 1?
No, given approx. same skill/gear/experience duels should result in 50% wins for each player.
CW is indeed amazing on groups. That's why our focus is the middle.
The point is that you usually need more than just 1 to kill perma stealth TRs (god mode) or Sentinel GWFs (infinite deflect). As a CW, if you don't have a bodyguard you're free kill 75% of the time.
And no, if the other group has a good comp you can't/have no time to change your powers just to kill a TR. If you have nothing to stop GWFs or GFs you die because PvP means Prone vs Prone. Lantern is really useful against TRs, but well... 2min CD.
And you must be really stupid to just sit and watch a CW casting Steal Time right at your side.
But a class loaded out with perfect enchants, rank 10s, best in slot gear, and someone who actually uses the PVP healing potions is gonna beat you if you aren't equally equipped/committed to gearing your toon towards PVP specifically.
That was good of you to mention this. Many casual PvP players think they are above using Battle Potions, when really it could make the difference in a battle. I have around 25k hp, and if you happen to bring me to a sliver of health, I would simply pop Waters of Thingamabob + Battle Potion, combined with a little bit of regen, I'll be back to full health almost immediately.
And then you are going to think I'm OP, and ask to nerf my class. It's an ***-saving idea to utilize every bit of resources you have in a PvP match. You should not be above using potions, elixirs, artifacts or disengaging from battle when you are fighting a permastealth TR. I'm not that kind of TR, but I make it my business to know their weakness for my own safety.
To add to some useful information in this thread in fighting against Permastealth rogues; reflect is a good choice for peeling away at stealth. Try Fey Thistle or Briartwine, even Bilethorn. It's common knowledge that AoE is a straight answer, but I'm a TR, so trust me, we learn how to stay away from AoE. One of your better options is interrupt. If you're an HR, grasping roots...plus that other vine skill that interrupts three times, that foils any attempts to restealth.
I definitely have to agree to Conduit of Ice.
Lightning enchantment is the easiest counter to permastealth rogues. When you have to hit them first with a bilethorn to peel stealth away, lightning arcs activate even when we are IN STEALTH.
An Infiltrator TR (the one that goes all black in ITC) has only one choice of passive power. The other yellow slot is a no brainer for a buff passive. So here's a clue: If you notice a TR runs really fast in stealth, he has a runspeed passive. He likely doesn't have concealment, which means your damage will drain his stealth so much more quickly.
Important: CW Listen!
If you are fighting a permastealth TR 1v1, and he uses the slow windup at will called DF, the one that hurts like truck -- save your teleport. Don't teleport out of panic please! Wait for the Third part of flurry to actually hit, then teleport as immediately as you can. That roots the TR to the ground, unless he wastes a dodge roll. If you run out of teleport first, you have no means of avoiding 10 stacks of flurry -- There goes 50% of your health bar.
I'm not against permastealth TR, but I also sympathize with the other classes who feel like they're being abused by stealth runners in PvP. I'm happy to share the trade secrets of stealth if it helps you stand a better chance in what seems to be an unfair disadvantage.
It is yet another Steal Time and Icy Terrain topic! Pls L2P and read it attentively!!!
May I politely add the Lantern of Revelation as well? It finds, debuffs and damages the TR He will be a sitting duck for whatever encounters you have left after using 2 slots for Icy Terrain and Steal Time.
Quoted for TRUTH!
OMG I forgot about Lantern. Well ****, with lantern and icy terrain and steal time, I'm gonna be a perma killing machine.
And I'll use this guy's tactic too. Whenever I see a big group of the enemy I'll jump in and use steal time!
As the squishiest class in the game, that's right where you want to be- right next to 5 enemy players. And if anything bad were to happen, I'll just use my 3 dodges and end up halfway across the map like the guy said.
There's no way they can catch me because I'll be using ICY TERRAIN.
Hell I don't even know why I use my mount, I should just use my dodges to get from point to point.
Man this has opened up a whole new universe of PVP for CWs.
I love how pretty much every example you used here depends on the TR landing a daily attack. regardless of the fact that people stating CW's should use a daily is dumb because it is a daily and the fact that TR's have the slowest building daily meter out of any class....
And the fact your still talking about 1 vs 1 which is not what Neverwinter PVP is about.
You know who's AP builds slower than a perma-rogue's?
Anybody "fighting" a perma-rogue. You're building exactly ZERO AP if you can't attack.
For DC, stalemate is no longer possible unless you are at least 3k gs more than that tr. Sunburst can knock tr away but due to control resist and tenacity, its proc rate is very low. For chains, it is bugged, 50% of the times it will fail and just lying on floor without any effect. In addition, experienced tr will just roll into chains so chains do 0 damage and cannot root someone in immune, even he was rooted, ITC or their slashing here and there daily could kill the dc. Last point, what do you expect from a cleric with both sunburst and chains slotted?? As a 3 seconds sandbag maybe?? Many guys expect them to have astral shield/divine glow/healing word/exaltation/forgemaster's flame/PoD etc skills that are better for entire team gameplay. Slotting 2 powers which cant guarantee a life from one branch of one of the 6 pvp classes is bad, 2 encounter slots purposely for perma tr?? I rather run away when some backup reach me.
1. CW-Use steal time, icy terrain, or any of your dailies. Can also use COI if you get it before they stealth up. Even with tenacious concealment, stealth is gonna get broken.
1. Those are awful awful skills that have a 50% failure chance due to ranged TRs, so in order to just SEE the TR, you want CWs to waste half their encounters on skills that would most likely fail anyway?
2. Dailies? You want a CW to spend his daily JUST for a CHANCE to see the TR? Again perma TRs can and usually attack from range. You understand that right?
I'm starting to doubt your "skill" and "experience" if those methods you suggested are serious ones
1. CW-Use steal time, icy terrain, or any of your dailies. Can also use COI if you get it before they stealth up. Even with tenacious concealment, stealth is gonna get broken.
Do people really use steal time with its slow animation, limited range and long cooldown?
Im not a pvp expert but when perma stealth was the new trend I used to slot icy terrain, steal time animation is too slow and stun is too short. Now I don't even pvp anymore but i bet any tr will pop impossible to catch and laugh at you
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millertime197933Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 124Bounty Hunter
edited March 2014
Too Rashylew and hamlet. Hey if you don't like the advice then don't take it. I have no problems with TRs on my CW, and when I play my TR, the abilities I listed are the ones that give me problems in terms of stealth. So that is the point of this thread, not a guide on how to pvp with a CW. Insulting my "skill" and 'experience" only proves your own ignorance. I never claimed to be a top PVP player because quite frankly I focus on PVE and just do PVP for daily ADs or to kill time. I still have no problem holding my own and am usually one of the better players on my team, not that that is saying a lot.
Also, those encounters for a CW are options, not a loadout. Anyone who plays a CW knows that there is a windup during the casting that does damage (quite a bit if you use the storm spell class feature) before the actual casting. Even if you don't finish the final hit, it is still enough to take the TR out of stealth. If you hit the TR with IT, that will also break their stealth very quickly. Furthermore, anyone can see a TR because their weapon enchant has a slight glow, you just can't target them. So get close to the glow and cast your spell. But no, stubborn folks like you who need to learn to play will continue to cry that the TR must be nerfed because you can't do anything about it instead of loading one simple encounter that will break the stealth and put you on equal ground. If a TR is killing you with ranged, maybe you should get some Hp gear or something.
50% failure chance? Post your log if that is true, otherwise you are just being a blowhard. That TR isn't interrupting you with ranged unless he is using impact shot. If he is using impact shot, then he isn't a perma-stealth TR. Cast steal time immediately after you teleport and you won't be interrupted, or cast it right after you click oppressive force. If you are saving your daily on a CW for a rainy day, maybe you need to rebuild because quite frankly CWs build AP crazy fast, even outside of combat. You waste an ice knife on a single target to get a kill, what difference does it make to drop an oppressive force to un-stealth a TR. Also anyone who knows anything knows oppressive force doesn't exactly hit like a wet noodle. My OF hits significantly harder than my ice knife in addition to maxing HV stacks, dazing, and hitting more than one target.
To jazzfong: I load sunburst, astral shield, and chains on my DC when I PVP. sunburst and chains isnt about control against a TR. Its about putting an AoE down that will damage him and break his stealth. Divine glow is very hard to land in PVP, not impossible, just hard. I prefer to use AoEs to spread high prophet debuffs around, but sunburst and astral shield also heal which is a minor help. But again, this is about countering a perma-stealth rogue, not a DC pvp guide. At the end of the day, nobody should be crying about how overpowered a TR is in PVP because it just isnt true. A good player who adapts will do just fine and will even the playing field enough to where their own personal skill can overcome.
Thus far the only argument anyone has is "I don't want to load that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> encounter". Well you know a TR loads <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> encounters to stay in stealth, and also has to wear a certain armor set, stack recovery, and put points in INT to get to where they are. They gimp themselves in some areas to be strong in one. Other classes have to do the same. Any class that is just powerful against every class without having to change any of their encounters would be the unbalanced class that needs a nerf. If you want to try to kill someone with an entangling force, ray of enfeeblement, icy rays, chill strike setup. Well you will be absolutely fabulous against HRs, some GFs, and other CWs, but you are gonna suck against TRs. If you wanna load up on heals as a DC in PVP, then you are gonna be great at standing on point 2 and making your GWFs and GFs crazy hard to kill, but you are gonna suck in other ways. I call that balanced. Yet many will still cry for the nerf on stealth. I say, LEARN TO PLAY.
to slot steal time with ice terrain is bad idea coz its easy to see and avoid and you lose burst.point of steal time is that trs cant come close to df and in best case waste itc.then u need 3 burst encounters and huge hp 35k plus.
I don't know that I've ever played with a CW that uses those abilities in PvP. Unless we were trolling pugs or something.
I know some premade teams used to use steal time at the beginning of a match to help them get control of mid, but now-a-days using abilities that gimp your DPS such as Icy Terrain, steal time, repel, ect. Just makes your CW useless, might as well just bring an HR or something instead.
How I understand it, I'm by no means a CW guy but I'm sure one will be along soon to either confirm,
or call me a nub
Im not a pvp expert but when perma stealth was the new trend I used to slot icy terrain, steal time animation is too slow and stun is too short. Now I don't even pvp anymore but i bet any tr will pop impossible to catch and laugh at you
Or they can just run a few feet back and throw daggers at you while you spend several seconds just standing there with the long animation of Steal Time
I don't know that I've ever played with a CW that uses those abilities in PvP. Unless we were trolling pugs or something.
I agree, no decent CW uses those abilities in PVP unless they are trolling or something....but yet someone actually suggested that in another thread......
I think that even though CW's are not very good in 1 vs 1 in pvp, they shine in a group. Thye can be most dangerous and most of the times I die it's because a CW's cc and a GWF proning me to death. So even though you might not win in a 1 vs 1, in a group you can really help and make a difference.
I'm a bit curious though, CW's are the best in group damage and control, but you also want to beat a class that is built for single target burst damage (and is only useful for that) in a 1 on 1?
Is PVP 5 vs 5 in a map with 3 nodes or 20 vs 20 gaunt style to you?
If it is the former, then 1 vs 1 situations for node control will be a big deal and will drive who wins the game or not.
A CW who will depend on another person to capture a node being occupied by a perma TR is a 2 on 1, which means the other team is getting value out of your team wasting time.
"Set the pvp queue to work like the dungeon queues except require that all teams have 1 TR on their teams and then block any other TR's from joining. Once the match starts, each TR is deposited in the other teams base and all other players immediately start at point 2"
^
Translation:" I don't want to be nerfed bro,i enjoy running perma and invulnerable.Now i have all these complaining.Let me propose something for distraction.They will think that i care to give a solution.But with my solution i ll stay king of the hill while also an enemy TR.So what?In the end both we will have our kills and our glory."
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Not even WoW is balanced like that. 50% chance to win only with same everything, including class and build.
Yeah there were patches when there was some slight imbalance, but usually it was fixed quite fast. Obviously it's hard to achieve full 50% lol, but it's something to strive for. I can tell you for sure that my frost mage had a 50% at murdering anything on the dancefloor Sometimes a class was more problematic (and yeah sometimes that class happened to be rogues), but I never had any issues that would make me think any class was imbalanced. In years of WoW, never made any forum posts about any other class, cause I didn't had to.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
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Are you for real?
Villains menace is the worst daily of a GF and i am going to waste a slot to it?Nope.
Enforced threat???????????????????Enforced threat??
An encounter that does 2-3k dmg to a single target??? lol
Frontline surge??And where do i know where he is??I have to know at least in general?Since we talking about stealth i don't.
Or you propose to waste my enc and dailies and then the rogue spams beside me and SE and from 37k hp to 16??And with all my enc and dailies on cooldown??
And about block.
Bilethorn reduces block meter to 0.Any not silly rogue waits the GM to go to 0 then SE then goes to a 15-16k remained GF into melee.TR has 28-30K hp and all his enc ready?
Guess who wins.Sorry but i think your "proposals" to avoid the inevitable "nerf" to your hide and seek cheating ,eh sorry i meant playing.
You remind me of the GWfs who made ridicoulous proposals to avoid their rebalance,like to stay still and not attack them during unstopable and then attack them when you have 20kHP and their 38k hp. Deja vu again.
Set the pvp queue to work like the dungeon queues except require that all teams have 1 TR on their teams and then block any other TR's from joining. Once the match starts, each TR is deposited in the other teams base and all other players immediately start at point 2. Each base is blocked and cannot be entered by anyone but that TR that started there. That way we only have to contend with the one point and everyone will stop complaining about TR's
either that or just ban the class from PVP entirely because as soon as both stealth and SE are nerfed there will be some thing else to complain about. I would expect another nerf to lashing blade and POB's to come before Mod 4.
Oh noes, someone is playing the class with the powers that are given to their class. they must be cheating
So you need to be a good CW to take a certain feat and a certain boon?
Anyway, the actually response to the above statement is "no". You dodge some. And then you're in for some real pain.
I am not sure that is entirely true yet but its almost gettting to that point.
I don't understand what you're complaining about, you popped the rogue out of stealth, controlled him, procced his soulforged and made him run away, and you don't consider that winning? If he's hiding behind the column, you're capping the point and regenerating health as well.
Anyway, there are some holes in your argument,
1) When you pop a rogue out of stealth, he generally can't immediately go back into stealth as his shadow strike is on cooldown. Yes he can use ITC, but he'll still have a ~10 second wait to go back in stealth if you popped him soon after he went into stealth. The only time he can immediately go back into stealth, is if it's the first rotation of his stealth, and he has everything off cooldown. Anyway, if you can pop him once you can pop him everytime, so you shouldn't have a problem with him hiding.
2)Are you saying that with 28k HP and 35% deflect a rogue is tanky? I don't think anyone else is arguing that perma rogues are tanky. They are the squishiest class after CWs.
A side point, Rogues don't generally have the lowest AP gain, especially in a 1v1 fight. Other classes can't build AP if they can't hit you, while shadow strike and ITC build a rogues AP. Technically, if no effort is made to remove a rogue from stealth, he can just SS, BnS, ITC, and CoS until his daily is up and then finish you without ever getting into melee range. Of course, then his entire damage is 8 hits of Cloud of steel per 24 seconds, so the fight is going to take minutes at the minimum. This of course, is assuming you can't pop a rogue out of stealth, which I consider and incorrect assumption.
People complaining about tr should realy make one and try it.
Played all class in pvp other than gf....
CW are glass but they do CC and a lot of damage
Gwf are made of steel and hit like a truck and can nearly stun lock you till death...
Hr are fast, have complet movability, do damage like crazy single or multy targets have stealth/disrupt and CC
Dc are tanky and help all other member in the fight...
perma have 1 thing, they hide... Their CC last for 3 second and a real perma wont use it, they do ****ty damage compared to any other class, if they get caught out of stealth they are dead or have to retreat
Removing stealth = deaths of tr..
TR have been the target of nerf for to long already. I am not againts removing perma stealth IF and ONLY IF that mean a complete rework of the class to make em viable in pve (dont go like ''haa they can solo dungeon'' they could maby do it yea in like 5 hours per run, therefor not viable in pve) AND in pvp.
Tr is mainly a pvp class as it is right now so i think it is fair to say that if they have a slight advantage in pvp compare to the top dps/utility class in pve is ok (cw, since they are mostly the crying class that already cryed for a year to become the most powerfull class of all, well THIS is not balance, balance = you can beat some people and some people can beat you)
Perma tr is BUILDED to counter a CW's control. You ain't happy about it and i can understand but you should also understand that YOU CAN NOT BE THE BEST AT EVERYTHING IN A GAME AND CALL IT BALANCED!
i loled
But i was sad that you forgot to remove the run speed while stealth because they should not be able to get to a point before other..
Should also nerf their defense more imo cuz my icy knife still cant 1hit them....
By the way, archer hold me on place and disrupt my 5minutes casting spell, its too strong imo...
I also have a suggestion for a new spell, should be called ''Wrath of gods'' and debuff/stun all enemy in place because i mean im a CONTROL wizard after all...
I'm a bit curious though, CW's are the best in group damage and control, but you also want to beat a class that is built for single target burst damage (and is only useful for that) in a 1 on 1?
No, given approx. same skill/gear/experience duels should result in 50% wins for each player.
PoB is getting a rebalancing. It will damage less but will now be able to crit, and benefit from crit related buffs.
The point is that you usually need more than just 1 to kill perma stealth TRs (god mode) or Sentinel GWFs (infinite deflect). As a CW, if you don't have a bodyguard you're free kill 75% of the time.
And no, if the other group has a good comp you can't/have no time to change your powers just to kill a TR. If you have nothing to stop GWFs or GFs you die because PvP means Prone vs Prone. Lantern is really useful against TRs, but well... 2min CD.
And you must be really stupid to just sit and watch a CW casting Steal Time right at your side.
Not even WoW is balanced like that. 50% chance to win only with same everything, including class and build.
That was good of you to mention this. Many casual PvP players think they are above using Battle Potions, when really it could make the difference in a battle. I have around 25k hp, and if you happen to bring me to a sliver of health, I would simply pop Waters of Thingamabob + Battle Potion, combined with a little bit of regen, I'll be back to full health almost immediately.
And then you are going to think I'm OP, and ask to nerf my class. It's an ***-saving idea to utilize every bit of resources you have in a PvP match. You should not be above using potions, elixirs, artifacts or disengaging from battle when you are fighting a permastealth TR. I'm not that kind of TR, but I make it my business to know their weakness for my own safety.
To add to some useful information in this thread in fighting against Permastealth rogues; reflect is a good choice for peeling away at stealth. Try Fey Thistle or Briartwine, even Bilethorn. It's common knowledge that AoE is a straight answer, but I'm a TR, so trust me, we learn how to stay away from AoE. One of your better options is interrupt. If you're an HR, grasping roots...plus that other vine skill that interrupts three times, that foils any attempts to restealth.
I definitely have to agree to Conduit of Ice.
Lightning enchantment is the easiest counter to permastealth rogues. When you have to hit them first with a bilethorn to peel stealth away, lightning arcs activate even when we are IN STEALTH.
An Infiltrator TR (the one that goes all black in ITC) has only one choice of passive power. The other yellow slot is a no brainer for a buff passive. So here's a clue: If you notice a TR runs really fast in stealth, he has a runspeed passive. He likely doesn't have concealment, which means your damage will drain his stealth so much more quickly.
Important: CW Listen!
If you are fighting a permastealth TR 1v1, and he uses the slow windup at will called DF, the one that hurts like truck -- save your teleport. Don't teleport out of panic please! Wait for the Third part of flurry to actually hit, then teleport as immediately as you can. That roots the TR to the ground, unless he wastes a dodge roll. If you run out of teleport first, you have no means of avoiding 10 stacks of flurry -- There goes 50% of your health bar.
I'm not against permastealth TR, but I also sympathize with the other classes who feel like they're being abused by stealth runners in PvP. I'm happy to share the trade secrets of stealth if it helps you stand a better chance in what seems to be an unfair disadvantage.
OMG I forgot about Lantern. Well ****, with lantern and icy terrain and steal time, I'm gonna be a perma killing machine.
And I'll use this guy's tactic too. Whenever I see a big group of the enemy I'll jump in and use steal time!
As the squishiest class in the game, that's right where you want to be- right next to 5 enemy players. And if anything bad were to happen, I'll just use my 3 dodges and end up halfway across the map like the guy said.
There's no way they can catch me because I'll be using ICY TERRAIN.
Hell I don't even know why I use my mount, I should just use my dodges to get from point to point.
Man this has opened up a whole new universe of PVP for CWs.
You know who's AP builds slower than a perma-rogue's?
Anybody "fighting" a perma-rogue. You're building exactly ZERO AP if you can't attack.
1. Those are awful awful skills that have a 50% failure chance due to ranged TRs, so in order to just SEE the TR, you want CWs to waste half their encounters on skills that would most likely fail anyway?
2. Dailies? You want a CW to spend his daily JUST for a CHANCE to see the TR? Again perma TRs can and usually attack from range. You understand that right?
I'm starting to doubt your "skill" and "experience" if those methods you suggested are serious ones
Do people really use steal time with its slow animation, limited range and long cooldown?
Also, those encounters for a CW are options, not a loadout. Anyone who plays a CW knows that there is a windup during the casting that does damage (quite a bit if you use the storm spell class feature) before the actual casting. Even if you don't finish the final hit, it is still enough to take the TR out of stealth. If you hit the TR with IT, that will also break their stealth very quickly. Furthermore, anyone can see a TR because their weapon enchant has a slight glow, you just can't target them. So get close to the glow and cast your spell. But no, stubborn folks like you who need to learn to play will continue to cry that the TR must be nerfed because you can't do anything about it instead of loading one simple encounter that will break the stealth and put you on equal ground. If a TR is killing you with ranged, maybe you should get some Hp gear or something.
50% failure chance? Post your log if that is true, otherwise you are just being a blowhard. That TR isn't interrupting you with ranged unless he is using impact shot. If he is using impact shot, then he isn't a perma-stealth TR. Cast steal time immediately after you teleport and you won't be interrupted, or cast it right after you click oppressive force. If you are saving your daily on a CW for a rainy day, maybe you need to rebuild because quite frankly CWs build AP crazy fast, even outside of combat. You waste an ice knife on a single target to get a kill, what difference does it make to drop an oppressive force to un-stealth a TR. Also anyone who knows anything knows oppressive force doesn't exactly hit like a wet noodle. My OF hits significantly harder than my ice knife in addition to maxing HV stacks, dazing, and hitting more than one target.
To jazzfong: I load sunburst, astral shield, and chains on my DC when I PVP. sunburst and chains isnt about control against a TR. Its about putting an AoE down that will damage him and break his stealth. Divine glow is very hard to land in PVP, not impossible, just hard. I prefer to use AoEs to spread high prophet debuffs around, but sunburst and astral shield also heal which is a minor help. But again, this is about countering a perma-stealth rogue, not a DC pvp guide. At the end of the day, nobody should be crying about how overpowered a TR is in PVP because it just isnt true. A good player who adapts will do just fine and will even the playing field enough to where their own personal skill can overcome.
Thus far the only argument anyone has is "I don't want to load that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> encounter". Well you know a TR loads <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> encounters to stay in stealth, and also has to wear a certain armor set, stack recovery, and put points in INT to get to where they are. They gimp themselves in some areas to be strong in one. Other classes have to do the same. Any class that is just powerful against every class without having to change any of their encounters would be the unbalanced class that needs a nerf. If you want to try to kill someone with an entangling force, ray of enfeeblement, icy rays, chill strike setup. Well you will be absolutely fabulous against HRs, some GFs, and other CWs, but you are gonna suck against TRs. If you wanna load up on heals as a DC in PVP, then you are gonna be great at standing on point 2 and making your GWFs and GFs crazy hard to kill, but you are gonna suck in other ways. I call that balanced. Yet many will still cry for the nerf on stealth. I say, LEARN TO PLAY.
I know some premade teams used to use steal time at the beginning of a match to help them get control of mid, but now-a-days using abilities that gimp your DPS such as Icy Terrain, steal time, repel, ect. Just makes your CW useless, might as well just bring an HR or something instead.
How I understand it, I'm by no means a CW guy but I'm sure one will be along soon to either confirm,
or call me a nub
Or they can just run a few feet back and throw daggers at you while you spend several seconds just standing there with the long animation of Steal Time
I agree, no decent CW uses those abilities in PVP unless they are trolling or something....but yet someone actually suggested that in another thread......
Is PVP 5 vs 5 in a map with 3 nodes or 20 vs 20 gaunt style to you?
If it is the former, then 1 vs 1 situations for node control will be a big deal and will drive who wins the game or not.
A CW who will depend on another person to capture a node being occupied by a perma TR is a 2 on 1, which means the other team is getting value out of your team wasting time.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
^
Translation:" I don't want to be nerfed bro,i enjoy running perma and invulnerable.Now i have all these complaining.Let me propose something for distraction.They will think that i care to give a solution.But with my solution i ll stay king of the hill while also an enemy TR.So what?In the end both we will have our kills and our glory."
Yeah there were patches when there was some slight imbalance, but usually it was fixed quite fast. Obviously it's hard to achieve full 50% lol, but it's something to strive for. I can tell you for sure that my frost mage had a 50% at murdering anything on the dancefloor
Just make sure you also use Lantern.
Maybe also Shield on Mastery?
Pro setup.