and yeah sometimes that class happened to be rogues), but I never had any issues that would make me think any class was imbalanced.
In WotLK I actually eat almost every rogue (and paladin) on my frostmage for breakfast. What caused more problems were certain good hunters and warlocks. It wasnt fully balanced either. But the gaps were way closer, so there were almost no discussions.
Funny is that rogue behaviour is the same like here: You are on low hp after a fight and get attacked by a rogue (yea that typical annoying playstile). If it happends that nonetheless you manage to send him to the graveyard their ego is so hurt they come right after you the next time with SE or wait for a 2vs1 situation, even if its during GG
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
I've tried both icy terrian and steal time. Usually misses since you don't know where the TR is. Hits often don't result in enough damage to drain their stealth meter. The few permas I have "unstealthed" this way usually resulted in the TR just going back in to stealth several seconds later. Note this is only for true perma stealth TRs. Cryptic is working on a solution for the perma stealth problem so this will soon be resolved. On that day there will be many tears as those playing that type of build will actually have to use skill to get kills.
I don't really know why this is being discussed. TRs will always kill CWs cuz CWs are squishy, all that control, all that AoE cannot get you the Defense and HP you need to tank a good Lashing Blade + SE. It will always be useless for CW's to try. Thats why Rogues run from GWFs and GFs! because you cant even stall perma-stun a-holes... You just run from them and target what you CAN kill - CWs, Rogues and HRs.
If it comes down to a 1v1 fight, all you can do is blink and shield to stall, and try to hit the TR with the lantern or something like that... Maybe do some damage when he actually pops up.
I am a TR, not perma-stealth cuz I think that's lame (like perma-stun GWFs and GFs), but when it comes to skill, I think the TRs have the advantage with stealth. And CWs were never made to Kill Rogues. Best thing you can do against a Rogue? Get another Rogue on the Team! I spot Rogues a mile away, there's ways to see them... And when they get close to you, you CAN see them quite easily, so there's that...
the point is, don't try to be a CW AND kill rogues, thats NOT your job. You can stall and wait for a GF or a GWF, but you cant kill the rogues... (not saying that there's no CW that can kill one, but it is not their job to do so).
"Set the pvp queue to work like the dungeon queues except require that all teams have 1 TR on their teams and then block any other TR's from joining. Once the match starts, each TR is deposited in the other teams base and all other players immediately start at point 2"
^
Translation:" I don't want to be nerfed bro,i enjoy running perma and invulnerable.Now i have all these complaining.Let me propose something for distraction.They will think that i care to give a solution.But with my solution i ll stay king of the hill while also an enemy TR.So what?In the end both we will have our kills and our glory."
Actually if you bother to read any of my previous posts in any of the other threads i am not a perma stealth. In fact i am not even close as I am a primarily pve player. my build is deft strike, lashing blade and B&S which is the same as my pve. the only difference is i replace DF with COS. So try harder to insult me next time.
What i would like to know is what all of these perma stealth haters actually want to happen specifically? If you take away our stealth what are you going to give us? Currently we dont have any really good defenses as our armor is a joke, we have laughable CC and our burst damage has been steadily nerfed over and over again. So what exactly do you propose to change that will not make our class laughable in pvp?
the point is, don't try to be a CW AND kill rogues, thats NOT your job. You can stall and wait for a GF or a GWF, but you cant kill the rogues... (not saying that there's no CW that can kill one, but it is not their job to do so).
So in a close-knit 5 on 5 match wherein every single person is a big advantage, the CW should wait for another person before attacking the TR who is just hanging around a node giving the enemy team points
What i would like to know is what all of these perma stealth haters actually want to happen specifically? If you take away our stealth what are you going to give us? Currently we dont have any really good defenses as our armor is a joke, we have laughable CC and our burst damage has been steadily nerfed over and over again. So what exactly do you propose to change that will not make our class laughable in pvp?
Oh no, if you take away stealth, that would make you guys as squishy as CWs and we all know you don't want to be as viable as CWs in PVP.
But no one is suggesting to completely remove it, you lessen damage WHILE in stealth, disable ranged attacks while in stealth etc.
In other games I have played, i.e. EVE Online, are players also capable to cloak and become completely undetectable. Only are they then not allowed to interact with their environment, meaning, they cannot deal damage or do anything else but move and stay hidden. This is how this issue has been solved there. But I think the game devs of EVE Online only dodged a bullet with their implementation. Cryptic is taking the step and is allowing cloaked players to deal damage.
TRs are a problem, but there are ways to beat them and AoE damage is not the only way. TRs who keep stealing towers can be fought off by having a GF guard the tower. This is how I sometimes beat them. Just do not chase a single TR with your entire team. That TR might already be gone and you won't know it.
That it drives people mad when they have to fight something they cannot see is a fact. And a quite funny one, too. It should stay in the game.
When you don't like TRs then maybe you should roll one yourself and find out how much fun it is to mess with others. If you haven't, but all you do is complain then, clearly, are you not having really fun when playing an MMO.
No, I'm saying to be quiet about getting nerfed because at worst, you guys become in-line with CWs at PVP.
okay but what is the point of that. One of the main complaints I have seen in the multitude of threads is the fact that CW's are useless in pvp and are only good in a support role. Why make the TR in the same boat? We dont even really have any tools for this as it is
okay but what is the point of that. One of the main complaints I have seen in the multitude of threads is the fact that CW's are useless in pvp and are only good in a support role. Why make the TR in the same boat? We dont even really have any tools for this as it is
I wasn't saying to nerf them to that extent. I didn't say take away stealth, others did.
I was saying to greatly decrease DPS WHILE in stealth.
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
okay but what is the point of that. One of the main complaints I have seen in the multitude of threads is the fact that CW's are useless in pvp and are only good in a support role. Why make the TR in the same boat? We dont even really have any tools for this as it is
Why not?
People are trying hard to make CWs for PvE into CC machines with 0 DPS, full support, just because their class had 0 love from developers that dunno what to do with the game.
By these people's logic, because CW's are good in PvE, they should suffer in PvP, as if they are related.
So... why not bring all other classes to CW level in PvP as well? I know I know, it's not logical IRL, but it's logical in the forums, if you know what I mean.
I was suggesting to greatly decrease their DPS while in stealth but that is another way to go.
Good suggestion.
Decreasing DPS while stealthed would really hurt their PVE capabilities, as stealth provides 25% Crit Damage. And as we all know, perma-stealth is also broken in PVE allowing TRs to clear dungeon bosses solo, so don't tell me about "breaking PVE for the sake of PVP".
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
That is the thing though you are asking for a huge reduction in our DPS, which is our main class role, so that "you guys become in-line with CWs at PVP"
we dont have any tools to do anything but DPS, so where does the class go from there?
I dont know how much you mean by greatly reduce but at a certain point when does the TR become completely unplayable because they will never kill anyone?
I dont know how much you mean by greatly reduce but at a certain point when does the TR become completely unplayable because they will never kill anyone?
People are trying hard to make CWs for PvE into CC machines with 0 DPS, full support, just because their class had 0 love from developers that dunno what to do with the game.
By these people's logic, because CW's are good in PvE, they should suffer in PvP, as if they are related.
So... why not bring all other classes to CW level in PvP as well? I know I know, it's not logical IRL, but it's logical in the forums, if you know what I mean.
Those people are idiots. Do i think CW's could use a damage reduction in pve? yes but they are still a striker secondary so it would not be a large amount. I dont play a CW at all so I cant give you any type of numbers but yes they do need some tweaking to their damage capability. I would not advocate for a complete redoing of the entire class which is basically what everyone seems to be asking for about TR's
I dont think you get what I am trying to say here. I think I have seen you say that CW's are the squishiest character in pvp. So if you reduce the TR damage while in stealth low enough so that they can never kill a CW while stealth, what chance do they have against any other class?
Tried to use ST a couple of times, it seemed to not break stealth. I mean, I saw where TR is by those foggy beams, but they didn't get TR out of stealth. And stun from ST is too short, I didn't even had time to dodge at the TR's location to catch him with another power.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
I dont think you get what I am trying to say here. I think I have seen you say that CW's are the squishiest character in pvp. So if you reduce the TR damage while in stealth low enough so that they can never kill a CW while stealth, what chance do they have against any other class?
You might as well not even use stealth at all.
And? I like the idea that TRs cannot kill the CW while in stealth while the CW can't do anything but jump around and teleport 3x before dying.
Comments
Funny is that rogue behaviour is the same like here: You are on low hp after a fight and get attacked by a rogue (yea that typical annoying playstile). If it happends that nonetheless you manage to send him to the graveyard their ego is so hurt they come right after you the next time with SE or wait for a 2vs1 situation, even if its during GG
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
If it comes down to a 1v1 fight, all you can do is blink and shield to stall, and try to hit the TR with the lantern or something like that... Maybe do some damage when he actually pops up.
I am a TR, not perma-stealth cuz I think that's lame (like perma-stun GWFs and GFs), but when it comes to skill, I think the TRs have the advantage with stealth. And CWs were never made to Kill Rogues. Best thing you can do against a Rogue? Get another Rogue on the Team! I spot Rogues a mile away, there's ways to see them... And when they get close to you, you CAN see them quite easily, so there's that...
the point is, don't try to be a CW AND kill rogues, thats NOT your job. You can stall and wait for a GF or a GWF, but you cant kill the rogues... (not saying that there's no CW that can kill one, but it is not their job to do so).
Actually if you bother to read any of my previous posts in any of the other threads i am not a perma stealth. In fact i am not even close as I am a primarily pve player. my build is deft strike, lashing blade and B&S which is the same as my pve. the only difference is i replace DF with COS. So try harder to insult me next time.
So in a close-knit 5 on 5 match wherein every single person is a big advantage, the CW should wait for another person before attacking the TR who is just hanging around a node giving the enemy team points
Oh no, if you take away stealth, that would make you guys as squishy as CWs and we all know you don't want to be as viable as CWs in PVP.
But no one is suggesting to completely remove it, you lessen damage WHILE in stealth, disable ranged attacks while in stealth etc.
Take away shocking execution and impossible to catch along with any sort of stealth and I'd give TRs every CC ability the CW has.
The TRs would reroll GWFs then
Didn't know that. Last time a TR nerf happened, they all made threads threatening to quit
TRs are a problem, but there are ways to beat them and AoE damage is not the only way. TRs who keep stealing towers can be fought off by having a GF guard the tower. This is how I sometimes beat them. Just do not chase a single TR with your entire team. That TR might already be gone and you won't know it.
That it drives people mad when they have to fight something they cannot see is a fact. And a quite funny one, too. It should stay in the game.
When you don't like TRs then maybe you should roll one yourself and find out how much fun it is to mess with others. If you haven't, but all you do is complain then, clearly, are you not having really fun when playing an MMO.
Just my $0.02
so your ideas are to nerf our damage even more (or get rid of it entirely) and to have has reroll into CW's
No, I'm saying to be quiet about getting nerfed because at worst, you guys become in-line with CWs at PVP.
I was suggesting to greatly decrease their DPS while in stealth but that is another way to go.
Good suggestion.
okay but what is the point of that. One of the main complaints I have seen in the multitude of threads is the fact that CW's are useless in pvp and are only good in a support role. Why make the TR in the same boat? We dont even really have any tools for this as it is
I wasn't saying to nerf them to that extent. I didn't say take away stealth, others did.
I was saying to greatly decrease DPS WHILE in stealth.
Why not?
People are trying hard to make CWs for PvE into CC machines with 0 DPS, full support, just because their class had 0 love from developers that dunno what to do with the game.
By these people's logic, because CW's are good in PvE, they should suffer in PvP, as if they are related.
So... why not bring all other classes to CW level in PvP as well? I know I know, it's not logical IRL, but it's logical in the forums, if you know what I mean.
Decreasing DPS while stealthed would really hurt their PVE capabilities, as stealth provides 25% Crit Damage. And as we all know, perma-stealth is also broken in PVE allowing TRs to clear dungeon bosses solo, so don't tell me about "breaking PVE for the sake of PVP".
we dont have any tools to do anything but DPS, so where does the class go from there?
I dont know how much you mean by greatly reduce but at a certain point when does the TR become completely unplayable because they will never kill anyone?
Only if you play against a team with 5x GWF
Those people are idiots. Do i think CW's could use a damage reduction in pve? yes but they are still a striker secondary so it would not be a large amount. I dont play a CW at all so I cant give you any type of numbers but yes they do need some tweaking to their damage capability. I would not advocate for a complete redoing of the entire class which is basically what everyone seems to be asking for about TR's
Really? Sure there are some, but most people are just asking for a DPS decrease while in stealth
I dont think you get what I am trying to say here. I think I have seen you say that CW's are the squishiest character in pvp. So if you reduce the TR damage while in stealth low enough so that they can never kill a CW while stealth, what chance do they have against any other class?
You might as well not even use stealth at all.
And? I like the idea that TRs cannot kill the CW while in stealth while the CW can't do anything but jump around and teleport 3x before dying.