hehe u know that they ment your precious pve
which should be nerfed to the ground and beyond so maybe it would take actuall skill to finish a dungeon
Just because I don't PvE any more doesn't mean I want it ruined for all CWs out there. I agree there should be harder, more rewarding content out there. I might play yet again
Also you know that PvE nerfs will affect PvP? Like nerfing CW AoE damage and Shard or debuffs would heavily impact PvP as well.
Man, the complete lack of basic English grammar skills on some of the posts in this thread is mind blowing...
Please, for everything that you hold Holy and for the betterment of the Human Race, if English is your first language do yourself a favor and learn some form of proper English.
Thank you, in advance, for improving yourself as a person! :cool:
But if TRs L2P with the stealth nerfs instead of crying about getting nerfed, then the class wouldn't be "destroyed"
Am I getting your argument style?
after nerfing every single power they had trs have nothing but stealth.that was their last line of defence.
you can only nerf something so far before becomes useless.
Man, the complete lack of basic English grammar skills on some of the posts in this thread is mind blowing...
Please, for everything that you hold Holy and for the betterment of the Human Race, if English is your first language do yourself a favor and learn some form of proper English.
Thank you, in advance, for improving yourself as a person! :cool:
i couldnt care less abouth anything then my own language. i will comunicate in another language if nothing else is possible
that should be good enough for anybody and should be appreciated.that is way more then most people are willing to do.
probably in 30 years english would be replaced with chinese i better start learning that one hehe
after nerfing every single power they had trs have nothing but stealth.that was their last line of defence.
you can only nerf something so far before becomes useless.
it's the best defense but we rogues can still fight outside of perma-stealth. granted, not being able to throw at-wills around during stealth will hurt all rogues but it's still not the end of the world......yet
if they keep going on this nerf train for every skill a rogue has then yeah, we will eventually die. impact was nerfed and is pathetic outside of the stealth bonus now since it's major benefit was dealing damage to ranged classes who could easily remain outside of melee range indefinitely unless u slot deft strike. high-end dps rogues seem to still do decent damage with it when they don't spam it, but they can do decent damage with anything so meh.
probably in 30 years english would be replaced with chinese i better start learning that one hehe
Thanks Nostradamus!
In summation...
<< image removed >>
0
adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
It would be very strange if all those who argue for perms would have no confidence that the dev's can create a working rogue class without perms. They argue as if the permanent stealth build would be a necessity for the rogue class in an mmorpg. But lets face it: they just want to keep it because it is cheese. Personally I really would like to see the dev's put an end to this endless discussion and remove this idiotic build from the game.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
the golden rule check it out.
you see if you come to france,spain,italy,germany no one would talk to you but if you knew just a bit of their language they will be more then happy to help u out.on other hand you understand perfectly good but u want grammar to lol what a joke.
0
fusshupeMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 21Arc User
the golden rule check it out.
you see if you come to france,spain,italy,germany no one would talk to you but if you knew just a bit of their language they will be more then happy to help u out.on other hand you understand perfectly good but u want grammar to lol what a joke.
Here in Germany, speaking English will usually be sufficient for everyday communication, unless you end up in some remote Bavarian mountain village.
after nerfing every single power they had trs have nothing but stealth.that was their last line of defence.
you can only nerf something so far before becomes useless.
I'll use the patented "f2pma argument methodology"
L2P dude!!!! Real skilled players will still succeed even with nerfs. Stop whining and L2P
I'll use the patented "f2pma argument methodology"
L2P dude!!!! Real skilled players will still succeed even with nerfs. Stop whining and L2P
i dont have to l2p im top tr maybe there are 5 to 10 tr better then me in the game lol even tho i cant remember losing to less geared tr 1v1. if i cant be viable others will fail to so dont wory abouth me.
if the nerf hits me hard other 99% tr can delete
i dont have to l2p im top tr maybe there are 5 to 10 tr better then me in the game lol even tho i cant remember losing to less geared tr 1v1. if i cant be viable others will fail to so dont wory abouth me.
if the nerf hits me hard other 99% tr can delete
You, sir, is the most modest ever.
You can be one of the worst TRs, as well as I can be one of the worst CWs. We don't know who's out there.
i dont have to l2p im top tr maybe there are 5 to 10 tr better then me in the game lol even tho i cant remember losing to less geared tr 1v1. if i cant be viable others will fail to so dont wory abouth me.
if the nerf hits me hard other 99% tr can delete
This comment alone proves what I've always been saying. perma/itc-semiperma does not require a good player to be successful in trolling. Yes I say trolling because jumping around exploiting bad game design to either kill or waste time for the enemy team is trolling. And if this gets removed from the game then MOST of these players can uninstall the game. Sure there is probably some good tricksters out there, the thing is, how can we possibly know? It's like with GWF, very hard to say if they are actually good, bad or mediocre. Since these classes(build/s) are easy mode deluxe. Every other game I queue for I will meet a premade of 2 gwf, GF, 1 perma or something along those lines. Throw in a google build oppressor with mealball on tab for good measure. No diverisity at all anymore, only trolls exploiting the game.
0
hexanna22Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 204Bounty Hunter
edited March 2014
There is so much wow in this thread....And a lot of advice from people who I can tell don't play end game pvp, or prob even mid game pvp.
1- Good TR and GWF, and some DCs build so that it takes 2 people to kill them so they can contest a node, and 2 people to kill them in a fast effecient manner--if you tie up 2 people to kill one of them for 5 mins, you prob lose the match...so saying that CW in particular needs to beat good TR 1v1 is ridiculous, or against any class, this pvp in NW works best when people work as a team.
Sure, I can kite some very awesome TR on a node that I need to contest for 2 or 3 mins sometimes...Sometimes, I get lucky and even kill them...but that is 2 or 3 mins that I am not helping my team by CCing and doing burst damage elsewhere. *If* it is decided to kill the TR, and not just contest him, it is always much better to use 2 people--even if it is just another class doing a drive by debuff, etc and then leaving.
2-All the super awesome endgame CWs that I admire, always run with a partner to protect them,to help them CC or Burst DPS a target down, some even run with a DC at their side, and they move from node to node, and never stop moving. ( CW and HR running together is GODLY, the right TR/CW combo is hard to beat as well), End game matches move fast, even if you 1v1 someone down on a node, there is someone to replace them on that node before that person dies usually, and all your stuff is on cooldown...and the replacements stuff is not.
And Introduce the Emblem....if someone has an emblem, and your team has decided to kill them to get points on that node instead of just contesting it, you have to take them out in less than 2 mins, you pretty much have to have 2 people to this, and 2 people can also plan to kill them even when the emblem pops...but it is teamwork.
****
On the whole, as a CW, the game is the same to me as it was before this latest mod--except that I had to grind out some new gear--sure, my numbers are smaller, and my CC is weaker, but so is everyone else's. If, I have no protection and the other team is smart to make me main target, I will get murdered just like before this mod, if I have some protection, I can help my team out greatly--if the other team lets me free cast--watch out!!! Just like before.
I don't mind the perma stealth TR so much as long as I am not in a pug where 4 people are trying to kill the guy instead of capping the other nodes.
The SE however, does seem quite over the top, and Im glad that I run with 33-35K HP...as I have been hit for over 25K with it.
P.S
I have not seen any end game CW use steal time or Icy Terrain to fight TR.
If any CW has killed any of the top TR using steal time, please let us know.
You can see stealthed rogues if you get close. I am sure you all know that. you cant target them but you can swing a sword or use an aoe to melt thier stealth meter. I did it a few times tonight. (i am sure not to great rogues, but there are not a lot of great rogues)
my question is , hoiw do you make rogues viable without perma stealth spec. The ones that show themselves to me usually end up running away, or they pop when there are more than 1 player fighting me. A good rogue can harass me and get me down to execution health, but it takes a while, and if they were showing themselves in that time, it would be ugly for them, because they have el crapo defence.
So what is the answer?
0
bonusitemMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 27Arc User
OMG I forgot about Lantern. Well ****, with lantern and icy terrain and steal time, I'm gonna be a perma killing machine.
And I'll use this guy's tactic too. Whenever I see a big group of the enemy I'll jump in and use steal time!
As the squishiest class in the game, that's right where you want to be- right next to 5 enemy players. And if anything bad were to happen, I'll just use my 3 dodges and end up halfway across the map like the guy said.
There's no way they can catch me because I'll be using ICY TERRAIN.
Hell I don't even know why I use my mount, I should just use my dodges to get from point to point.
Man this has opened up a whole new universe of PVP for CWs.
That is one of the funniest post I have ever read. Rarely have I ever had a post make me laugh as hard as this one did.
This comment alone proves what I've always been saying. perma/itc-semiperma does not require a good player to be successful in trolling. Yes I say trolling because jumping around exploiting bad game design to either kill or waste time for the enemy team is trolling. And if this gets removed from the game then MOST of these players can uninstall the game. Sure there is probably some good tricksters out there, the thing is, how can we possibly know? It's like with GWF, very hard to say if they are actually good, bad or mediocre. Since these classes(build/s) are easy mode deluxe. Every other game I queue for I will meet a premade of 2 gwf, GF, 1 perma or something along those lines. Throw in a google build oppressor with mealball on tab for good measure. No diverisity at all anymore, only trolls exploiting the game.
just using df takes a lot of practise and skill. its not so easy as it looks.if it was most cw would have trs not gwf
That is one of the funniest post I have ever read. Rarely have I ever had a post make me laugh as hard as this one did.
Epic post! And he's totally right. lol
I saw the post that he's talking about forever ago, and i totally second this. Even the thought of Lantern was a joke! 6 seconds for the ability to MAYBE see the tr, with a 2 minute(at best) cooldown was ridiculous! And that tr's totally not going to see icy terrain or steal time being used, its soooo hard to see those coming lol.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
I have played a TR since closed beta and it is my favorite class. I have seen it nerfed into the ground over the past year or so due to people complaining about how overpowering it is. First off, the class that is supposed to be the best single target dps is going to have an inherent advantage in pvp. Especially when that damage is burst damage. That has largely been nerfed since, so now we are left with stealth. This is truly an issue where other classes just need to learn to play. Here are ways to counter TRs in stealth by class:
1. CW-Use steal time, icy terrain, or any of your dailies. Can also use COI if you get it before they stealth up. Even with tenacious concealment, stealth is gonna get broken.
2. GWF- Use slam. Frontline surge is also viable if you generally know where they are. Instead of trying to use takedown, just chase the rogue around and follow the glow of his weapon. You can keep up with your speed. Stop trying to prone the rogue because if he is face tanking you, then he has impossible to catch running and is immune to it.
3. GF-Villians menace, enforced threat, and frontline surge. This class is most vulnerable to stealth TRs, however with block, they are gonna have to face tank you eventually as you can block any ranged attacks.
4. HR-Split shot the bait and switch dummy, many of your hits will land on the actual TR. Thorn strike and split the sky will also own the TR. HRs also dodge like crazy so it is hard to consistently hit them. Stay mobile.
5. TR-fight fire with fire. Path of blades and whirlwind strike along with your bilethorn=balanced fight. Path of blades is a real pain to stay in stealth around, especially if its just 1v1.
6. DC-sunburst and chains of blazing light. Also any DoT encounters or brand of the sun if you have it prior to the rogue going into stealth will eventually break it. Burning radiance boon from dread ring is also a stealth breaker if you have a friendly around you to heal (hallowed ground if feated has a massive area), or astral shield.
Bottom line is use your AoEs folks. Even when using tenacious concealment, taking any damage will cause them to break stealth early and really mess up their rotation on keeping it up. When you start a match just look at the classes you are up against and set your loadout up accordingly. Don't want to change your loadout? Then quit crying about TRs being overpowered. If they have a high kill count it isnt because they are awesome at PVP, it is because they did a burst dps on a soft class that was already hurt. All stealth lets you do is weave around and find that easy target which is of course a main class feature. TRs are in such a bad way in PVE due to PVP nerfs that even at 15k GS I can't even get a group unless it is with my guild. Even then I beat the DC and GF in DPS and am well behind the others. CWs, HRs, and some GWFs are even better at single target dps so the class doesn't need more nerfing. Also, ELO or not, there is still a gear disparity, or maybe you make bad choices in gear selection. But a class loaded out with perfect enchants, rank 10s, best in slot gear, and someone who actually uses the PVP healing potions is gonna beat you if you aren't equally equipped/committed to gearing your toon towards PVP specifically.
Please no more nerfs and don't think it is common to solo epic dungeons with TRs. I know there are some that do it, but there are also people that duo dracolich legitimately. That doesn't mean nerf them. Soloing those dungeons isn't as easy as just staying in stealth either. Many bosses see through stealth, and the ones that don't will still fire off AoEs that cause your stealth to break. Soloing is more the exception than the rule and the general TR community shouldn't be nerfed because someone who is decked out can challenge themselves and do those dungeons. I have rank 8s, best in slot weapons/gear, perfect enchants, and my choice companions and still can only solo parts of some of the epic dungeons, not even close to the whole thing. Even if I could, it would take me hours upon hours to complete.
Man, TR's got perma stealth, can almost solo dungeons and very high power, on the real DnD rogues are weak as hell, i realy dont know why they are so powerfull here since it's based on DnD, but think on CW's from 1 year we had nothink more than nerf, there'r nothing good done to CW's all our skills have soffered nerf, even ap gain has, our at-wills has too, our second paragon is a joke, all others classes has good ones, CW's doesnt. so think about it.
1 - I give him the node and just walk way. I'd rather outnumber his team at mid and back-cap than have 1/2 of our players tied up against Mr. Untouchable.
2 - I need someone else to be ''bait''. So, I get all my prone powers ready and watch the TR attack my teammate, waiting for that split-second when the TR is not untouchable and I just unload on him. Usually they are not tough enough to take FS, BC, IS & LS. This, however, does not work against really, really good permas, so in that case I revert back to option 1. The only thing worse than being trolled on node by a TR is when the TR is trolling 2/3 of you on node.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Because the dungeons are full of CCable adds, and nerfing CWs have led to teams taking MORE CWs in order to have better control over the adds and to make the run go smoother and faster.
But even with the nerfed CW, there is no content in this game that requires more than 1 CW to complete, with the only possible exception of the Draco fight in CN.
Comments
yeah coz u rather destroy a class then l2p
Uhh... you're kinda strange.
Just because I don't PvE any more doesn't mean I want it ruined for all CWs out there. I agree there should be harder, more rewarding content out there. I might play yet again
Also you know that PvE nerfs will affect PvP? Like nerfing CW AoE damage and Shard or debuffs would heavily impact PvP as well.
But if TRs L2P with the stealth nerfs instead of crying about getting nerfed, then the class wouldn't be "destroyed"
Am I getting your argument style?
who makes NW different to other games,that's simple-
and this is why TR players are here and not elsewhere.
with M3 TR deal very low dmg!
above all in the pvp fields.
TR need a dmg upgrade,to be a serious character again.
they feel currently useless.
more important are,
that every dungeon party just need only
CW /GWF = other classes not needed.
Please, for everything that you hold Holy and for the betterment of the Human Race, if English is your first language do yourself a favor and learn some form of proper English.
Thank you, in advance, for improving yourself as a person! :cool:
not realy destroy cw for pve and buff them in pvp.
tr is destroyed in pve last 8 months and if its destroyed in pvp there is no point to play.
after nerfing every single power they had trs have nothing but stealth.that was their last line of defence.
you can only nerf something so far before becomes useless.
i couldnt care less abouth anything then my own language. i will comunicate in another language if nothing else is possible
that should be good enough for anybody and should be appreciated.that is way more then most people are willing to do.
probably in 30 years english would be replaced with chinese i better start learning that one hehe
it's the best defense but we rogues can still fight outside of perma-stealth. granted, not being able to throw at-wills around during stealth will hurt all rogues but it's still not the end of the world......yet
if they keep going on this nerf train for every skill a rogue has then yeah, we will eventually die. impact was nerfed and is pathetic outside of the stealth bonus now since it's major benefit was dealing damage to ranged classes who could easily remain outside of melee range indefinitely unless u slot deft strike. high-end dps rogues seem to still do decent damage with it when they don't spam it, but they can do decent damage with anything so meh.
May as well give it a shot, right?
<< image removed >>
<< image removed >>
Thanks Nostradamus!
In summation...
<< image removed >>
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
the golden rule check it out.
you see if you come to france,spain,italy,germany no one would talk to you but if you knew just a bit of their language they will be more then happy to help u out.on other hand you understand perfectly good but u want grammar to lol what a joke.
Here in Germany, speaking English will usually be sufficient for everyday communication, unless you end up in some remote Bavarian mountain village.
I'll use the patented "f2pma argument methodology"
L2P dude!!!! Real skilled players will still succeed even with nerfs. Stop whining and L2P
iv been in germany few years they realy hate english and love their language.
i dont have to l2p im top tr maybe there are 5 to 10 tr better then me in the game lol even tho i cant remember losing to less geared tr 1v1. if i cant be viable others will fail to so dont wory abouth me.
if the nerf hits me hard other 99% tr can delete
<< image removed >>
You, sir, is the most modest ever.
You can be one of the worst TRs, as well as I can be one of the worst CWs. We don't know who's out there.
This comment alone proves what I've always been saying. perma/itc-semiperma does not require a good player to be successful in trolling. Yes I say trolling because jumping around exploiting bad game design to either kill or waste time for the enemy team is trolling. And if this gets removed from the game then MOST of these players can uninstall the game. Sure there is probably some good tricksters out there, the thing is, how can we possibly know? It's like with GWF, very hard to say if they are actually good, bad or mediocre. Since these classes(build/s) are easy mode deluxe. Every other game I queue for I will meet a premade of 2 gwf, GF, 1 perma or something along those lines. Throw in a google build oppressor with mealball on tab for good measure. No diverisity at all anymore, only trolls exploiting the game.
1- Good TR and GWF, and some DCs build so that it takes 2 people to kill them so they can contest a node, and 2 people to kill them in a fast effecient manner--if you tie up 2 people to kill one of them for 5 mins, you prob lose the match...so saying that CW in particular needs to beat good TR 1v1 is ridiculous, or against any class, this pvp in NW works best when people work as a team.
Sure, I can kite some very awesome TR on a node that I need to contest for 2 or 3 mins sometimes...Sometimes, I get lucky and even kill them...but that is 2 or 3 mins that I am not helping my team by CCing and doing burst damage elsewhere. *If* it is decided to kill the TR, and not just contest him, it is always much better to use 2 people--even if it is just another class doing a drive by debuff, etc and then leaving.
2-All the super awesome endgame CWs that I admire, always run with a partner to protect them,to help them CC or Burst DPS a target down, some even run with a DC at their side, and they move from node to node, and never stop moving. ( CW and HR running together is GODLY, the right TR/CW combo is hard to beat as well), End game matches move fast, even if you 1v1 someone down on a node, there is someone to replace them on that node before that person dies usually, and all your stuff is on cooldown...and the replacements stuff is not.
And Introduce the Emblem....if someone has an emblem, and your team has decided to kill them to get points on that node instead of just contesting it, you have to take them out in less than 2 mins, you pretty much have to have 2 people to this, and 2 people can also plan to kill them even when the emblem pops...but it is teamwork.
****
On the whole, as a CW, the game is the same to me as it was before this latest mod--except that I had to grind out some new gear--sure, my numbers are smaller, and my CC is weaker, but so is everyone else's. If, I have no protection and the other team is smart to make me main target, I will get murdered just like before this mod, if I have some protection, I can help my team out greatly--if the other team lets me free cast--watch out!!! Just like before.
I don't mind the perma stealth TR so much as long as I am not in a pug where 4 people are trying to kill the guy instead of capping the other nodes.
The SE however, does seem quite over the top, and Im glad that I run with 33-35K HP...as I have been hit for over 25K with it.
P.S
I have not seen any end game CW use steal time or Icy Terrain to fight TR.
If any CW has killed any of the top TR using steal time, please let us know.
my question is , hoiw do you make rogues viable without perma stealth spec. The ones that show themselves to me usually end up running away, or they pop when there are more than 1 player fighting me. A good rogue can harass me and get me down to execution health, but it takes a while, and if they were showing themselves in that time, it would be ugly for them, because they have el crapo defence.
So what is the answer?
That is one of the funniest post I have ever read. Rarely have I ever had a post make me laugh as hard as this one did.
Epic post! And he's totally right. lol
just using df takes a lot of practise and skill. its not so easy as it looks.if it was most cw would have trs not gwf
i know all good trs that can beat me by name its a realy small game,there is no one out there lol
I saw the post that he's talking about forever ago, and i totally second this. Even the thought of Lantern was a joke! 6 seconds for the ability to MAYBE see the tr, with a 2 minute(at best) cooldown was ridiculous! And that tr's totally not going to see icy terrain or steal time being used, its soooo hard to see those coming lol.
Man, TR's got perma stealth, can almost solo dungeons and very high power, on the real DnD rogues are weak as hell, i realy dont know why they are so powerfull here since it's based on DnD, but think on CW's from 1 year we had nothink more than nerf, there'r nothing good done to CW's all our skills have soffered nerf, even ap gain has, our at-wills has too, our second paragon is a joke, all others classes has good ones, CW's doesnt. so think about it.
1 - I give him the node and just walk way. I'd rather outnumber his team at mid and back-cap than have 1/2 of our players tied up against Mr. Untouchable.
2 - I need someone else to be ''bait''. So, I get all my prone powers ready and watch the TR attack my teammate, waiting for that split-second when the TR is not untouchable and I just unload on him. Usually they are not tough enough to take FS, BC, IS & LS. This, however, does not work against really, really good permas, so in that case I revert back to option 1. The only thing worse than being trolled on node by a TR is when the TR is trolling 2/3 of you on node.
Because the dungeons are full of CCable adds, and nerfing CWs have led to teams taking MORE CWs in order to have better control over the adds and to make the run go smoother and faster.
But even with the nerfed CW, there is no content in this game that requires more than 1 CW to complete, with the only possible exception of the Draco fight in CN.