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Cryptic OFFICIAL Feedback Thread: Hunter Ranger

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  • sevonysevony Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Just wanted to say that, despite a few bugs, I really like the Hunter. :) And that's what we are here for after all, to find the bugs so they can get fixed before the official release.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Blades just flat out have lower damage on them than bows, at the moment I only have level 12 blades, the best I could find, they are superior than the white ones available in PE so they are what I had to trail with.

    Combat Data
    Attack 476
    Crit 12.2% Severity 75
    Recharge 4%
    AP Gain 0%

    No Stance Switching to see the effect it has, just straight shooting the target.

    Weapon: Longbow of the Deep Forest 107-131

    81 Trials with 12 crits (not included in below data)
    Minimum:106
    Maximum:221
    Median:120
    Mode:121
    Mean:137
    S.D.: 32
    -1 S.D.:105
    +1 S.D.:169
    Actual Crit %:15%

    Weapon: +1 Piercing Scout's Blades 40-49

    79 Trials with 13 crits (not included in below data)

    Minimum: 53
    Maximum: 122
    Median: 58
    Mode: 54
    Mean: 75
    S.D.: 27
    -1 S.D.: 48
    +1 S.D.: 102
    Actual Crit %: 16%

    Feedback: Melee vs Ranged Damage
    Would be good if the weapon damage for these two combat modes was comparable.

    TR Data
    Level 17
    Stats: Str 15, Dex 19, Int 13, Cha 14 (No Campfire in Effect)

    Attack Data
    Attack 501
    Crit Chance 22% Severity 75%
    Recharge Increase 3%

    Weapons:
    Dagger of Balance 64-78 damage
    +2 Tempered Evader's Dagger 53-65 Damage

    Note even though I had blue gear available I only equipped green items and white rings.
    I did not use stealth or any other feature to increase damage above base for the character.

    Sly Flourish - 92 Trials 32 Crits (not included in data)
    Minimum: 153
    Maximum: 230
    Meadian: 167
    Mode: 166
    Mean: 176
    S.D.: 22
    -1 S.D.: 154
    +1 S.D.: 198
    Actual Crit %: 34%

    Note damage here is double to triple the damage listed for the Weapon, this makes it far, far clearer that the HR melee at-will is very much lacking in power.

    Cloud of Steel - 47 Trials with 9 crits (not included in calculations)
    Minimum: 72
    Maximum: 162
    Meadian: 93
    Mode: 72
    Mean: 103
    S.D.: 29
    -1 S.D.: 75
    +1 S.D.: 132
    Actual Crit %: 17%

    I did less trials because Cloud of Steel is more a burst damage at range and in truth isn't a great comparison for infinite Rapid shots. However the damage from the ranged attacks is similar in profile to the HR (comparing weapon to actual) suggesting that the Ranged portion of HR attacks is on track.

    Ok finally got my CW data;
    Attack 451
    Crit Chance 16.9% Severity 75%
    Recharge Increase 14.4%
    AP Gain +5.4%

    Weapon: +2 Lethal Caster's Orb 78-95,

    Magic Missile: (Tooltip: 54-62)
    Minimum: 55
    Maximum: 73
    Median: 65
    Mode: 65
    Mean: 64
    S.D.: 5
    -1 S.D.: 59
    +1 S.D.: 69
    Actual Crit %: 18%

    Ray of Frost: (Tooltip - 40-47)
    Minimum: 41
    Maximum: 54
    Median: 48
    Mode: 49
    Mean: 48
    S.D.: 3
    -1 S.D.: 45
    +1 S.D.: 51
    Actual Crit %: 19%

    Very different data for the CW than the TR, more inline with the HR damage at the time I did the testing for the HR. (Note that the CW does perform above tooltip still.) Given that the CW is a Controller and that the at-wills feed the encounters (note the high Recharge for level 17 with no effort put into optimizing it) this seems like an acceptable trade off.

    The general assumption is that the HR is a Striker/Controller (vs the Controller/Striker of CW), which suggests that the TR is a better guide for how the class should perform in general. The simple truth is if the CW is the guide the HR is fine for DPS but needs a lot stronger control effects (Grasping in particular needs a boost) and perhaps more power synergy (cf Chill/Arcane for CWs).

    Overall I think the data I can gather suggests the DPS is perhaps OK, maybe a little low, but the main issue is the huge discrepancy between the Bow and the Blades.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
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    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • rhoricrhoric Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    BUG still

    Seismic shock after effects are still plaguing the zones. Fix before you put this module to live. 3 patches and no fix.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Just have 0 VFX for Seismic if you have to but fix this as the #1 priority for the release of HRs or the game will be unplayable as of Dec 5th.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • xmousepadxxmousepadx Member Posts: 381 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2013
    Feedback: bug
    FIX Aspect of the lone wolf, since it is our best passive out there
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Updated post 543 with TR data.

    Conclusion remains the same Ranger Melee damage is well below expectations, ranged damage is on target.

    Now off to grind a CW up to 17 on Live. (Made it to 16, might not get to 17 in the next 24hrs, we'll see).
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • mio1968mio1968 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 46
    edited November 2013
    A lot of bugs have been painstakingly tested and reported by a lot of people. It is not fun testing in the lag fest which is the preview shard. Could we get some feedback on what is in the works for release, please?
  • mio1968mio1968 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 46
    edited November 2013
    Feedback: Feature: Aspect of the Lone Wolf
    Aside from apparently not currently working, it would be fantastic if this could be inverted for melee stance. Being in range for melee aoe is very painful for the flimsy ranger. If this skill could ADD 5% mitigation per enemy in range (to 25% max) when in melee stance it would help a lot. Versus single opponents our shifts are defense enough. In ranged stance it should stay as is.

    Feedback: Feat: Nature's Enhancement
    This feat is currently bugged and raises defect severity to 55.6% instead of 75%. I suggest removing the timer on this skill altogether. It is a feat that competes directly with other strong feats, making its choice very costly. The five second timer severely diminishes its value given the five point cost and adds unnecessary complexity to gameplay by forcing people to double tap stance switch to refresh it.
  • xmousepadxxmousepadx Member Posts: 381 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2013
    mio1968 wrote: »
    Feedback: Feature: Aspect of the Lone Wolf
    Aside from apparently not currently working, it would be fantastic if this could be inverted for melee stance. Being in range for melee aoe is very painful for the flimsy ranger. If this skill could ADD 5% mitigation per enemy in range (to 25% max) when in melee stance it would help a lot. Versus single opponents our shifts are defense enough. In ranged stance it should stay as is.

    Feedback: Feat: Nature's Enhancement
    This feat is currently bugged and raises defect severity to 55.6% instead of 75%. I suggest removing the timer on this skill altogether. It is a feat that competes directly with other strong feats, making its choice very costly. The five second timer severely diminishes its value given the five point cost and adds unnecessary complexity to gameplay by forcing people to double tap stance switch to refresh it.

    I rly like ur idea of changing aspect of the lone wolf for melee! Sadly it doesnt even work atm so maybe some time later they gonna change it for melee aswell!
    But on the other side u already have pretty good passives for melee anyway!
  • xmousepadxxmousepadx Member Posts: 381 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2013
    Anyway in my opinion it's to early to release HR in his current state.
  • voltomeyvoltomey Member Posts: 1,052 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2013
    TBH i think they will go though with there final wave of bug fixing when the patch goes live and leading up to the patch so i am not really worried i just want them to fix the danmed seismic shot daily bug.
    Gang Busters PvP Guild Recruiting When Mod 6 goes live Pm Me for more Info If you have any Paladin question Message Me and i will get back to you ASAP
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • xmousepadxxmousepadx Member Posts: 381 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2013
    let's hope so
  • xmousepadxxmousepadx Member Posts: 381 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2013
    also i dislike the fact, that the community put so much work into the HR class and we dont get any response from the delvs...
  • werealchemistwerealchemist Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    xmousepadx wrote: »
    also i dislike the fact, that the community put so much work into the HR class and we dont get any response from the devs*...

    Yeah pretty much this. I've done a whole bunch of testing and put in bug reports and given my opinions but not a word from the devs yet just a simple " yeah we hear ya" would go a long way at this point.
    21.jpg
  • slambitslambit Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 282 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2013
    from the new patch notes :

    • Hunter Ranger powers have received a pass to balance the amount of Action Points gained per enemies hit. Most now generate based on if an enemy was hit, not how many were hit. Thorn Strike gains AP for up to 3 enemies hit.
    • Hunter Ranger: Clear the Ground now properly generates Action Points.
    • Hunter Ranger: Oak Skin now shows the amount it heals in the tooltip.
    • Hunter Ranger: Seismic Shot no longer unintentionally goes through walls.
    • Hunter Ranger: Split Shot will now charge to at least 20% instead of allowing it to silently fail if released too quickly.
  • koba66koba66 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    It's 50-tish page on this topic and I just can't keep up with reading everything so apologies if I repreat what's been already said. Anyway, here are my 2 cents...

    Nature paragon feats tree
    The order of the powers buffs seem odd. Especially the Boar Hide improvement comes very late and Fox Cunning buff is available at LVL 40 even tough you can't get it until LVL 50... Normally the feats improving a given power come available more or less along that power.

    Aspect of the Lone Wolf
    It says it gives up to 25% mitigation. I have no idea what it means but from gameplay I wouldn't say it is 25% damage reduction or 25% bonus deflection.

    Elusive Hunter
    Up to 10% flat deflection bonus in melee stance seems a bit OP. From my observations this translates into 5% absolute damage reduction (at 50% deflection severity of HR) which may not be overcome in any way (say AP). I know it's just melee stance and HR has many powers which are utility in nature (thus limiting his mititgation potential) but I wonder if this was intentional.

    Plus, I agree with many previous posters saying that:
    1. melee weapon handling seems a copy cat from a TR - blades pointing forward seem much more natural for this class
    2. swords/ scimitars should be longer and less resemble daggers (although this is appearance issue and may be dealt with transmutation - e.g., I once saw a TR with fantastic rapiers!)
    3. does HR looks always need to be so foresty? :) This could be a city-dwelling humans hunter, you know :) Or worse (better?) - this could be an elf hunter or druid hunter :) (again may be solved with transmutation but still...)
  • slambitslambit Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 282 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2013
    agreed that backward facing weapon needs to be changed
  • knightfalzknightfalz Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    koba66 wrote: »
    3. does HR looks always need to be so foresty? :) This could be a city-dwelling humans hunter, you know :) Or worse (better?) - this could be an elf hunter or druid hunter :) (again may be solved with transmutation but still...)

    Well, even hunters in the real world make some effort at camouflage, and this would be even more important when operating in a fantasy world where the Hunter Ranger could just as easily become hunted by other intelligent beings. So, if the Hunter Ranger is mainly viewed as a woodlands type of character it makes sense for them to wear attire that blends well with their normal environment when on the job.

    Hunter Rangers in the city wouldn't be on the job per se, so could use the cosmetics tab for a more varied appearance when visiting the city and other times when blending in isn't needed or desired.
  • voltomeyvoltomey Member Posts: 1,052 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2013
    they made split shot better at least it appears they stealth fixed the daily bug lolz
    Gang Busters PvP Guild Recruiting When Mod 6 goes live Pm Me for more Info If you have any Paladin question Message Me and i will get back to you ASAP
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Finished my data gathering in post 534.

    The CW gives a very different picture than the TR did...
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • banxai61banxai61 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I haven't seen a match where they are not in the top spots. After 12 matches there wasn't a single match where the HR wasn't in first place. usually I will see the top 2 spots (not just first) as HR.
    I was inspecting them and a lot of them have green gear??? Considering these are all fresh lvl 60s with little knowledge of how to pvp with these guys I was insulted at how well they did. ffs I have a perfect vorpal, formorian weapons, nothing lower than a rank 9 and fresh lvl 60 HRs with green gear eat us all like breakfeast.

    This is the most broken a class has ever been its really really bad
    A small nerf isn't going to cut it there needs to be multiple large ones. the sad thing is they will still be the best even after nerfs but at least it will be more managable

    I have played a ranger class in every game since 2000 in every one of those this class has been nerfed due to people mainly at first not understanding how to beat or fight this class, only once was I in agreement and this was in age of conan and the bleed ticks were excessive, but for the most part it is a ranged class designed to HAMSTER off cloth wearers and light armor wearers if caught in the open, be thankful this class doesn't have leg hold traps.
  • kartaekartae Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Bug: Feats: Stormcaller's Arrow
    At level 35 my HR was unable to take the feat "Stormcaller's Arrow" it was marked as "Not Available" although she had 5 points in "Black Arrow" and should have been able to take it. The other feat at the same level "Bloodthristy" was available.
  • warzogwarzog Member Posts: 128 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2013
    koba66 wrote: »
    1. melee weapon handling seems a copy cat from a TR - blades pointing forward seem much more natural for this class
    2. swords/ scimitars should be longer and less resemble daggers (although this is appearance issue and may be dealt with transmutation - e.g., I once saw a TR with fantastic rapiers!)
    slambit wrote: »
    agreed that backward facing weapon needs to be changed
    1463022_403585063077491_464254765_n_zps397a2a3a.jpg

    i got this picture from facebook , what do you folks think

    I don't know, I kinda like the look.
    Go for the eyes, Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!!!
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  • arcaelusarcaelus Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    The style looks good to me. With short weapons it is an effective style. It doesn't matter if your a TR,GF or what have you. Of course with longer blades (swords and such) the style will change to forward facing weapons.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • gipsylassgipsylass Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 61
    edited November 2013
    Feedback:

    It's been mentioned before - as others I don't like that the ranger is "looking down" constantly - this is just a minor thing maybe but annoying.

    As far as damage output is concerned I'm still too low level to really say how bad it is or if it has gotten any better after the nerf. I just hope for the best.
  • mio1968mio1968 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 46
    edited November 2013
    Feedback: Armor Sets

    There is a bit of a problem with the overuse of armor penetration on HR sets. The maximum required resistance ignored is 24%. Now, every ranger has at a bare minimum 13 strength, which translates to 15 strength at level 60 and 5% resistance ignored, without campfire. This means, to be completely pve capped in armor penetration, one needs at most 19% resistance ignored, or 1850 armor penetration.

    The problem lies in the fact that several sets carry too much armor penetration. Both the Master Predator set and the Royal guard set carry 1271 armor penetration in stats, plus another 450 as a 2 piece bonus. Weapon sets carry another 450 armor penetration as a set bonus, and possibly more in stats. That already adds up to 2171 armor penetration. So, if we roll with the miminum possible strength, never use campfires, and handpick every other item, enchantment, pet, and relic to have zero armor penetration, we are still wasting 300 stat points. In reality, depending on luck, organization, and AD spent, the waste will be closer to 500-1000 stat points.

    I think that is worth a look.
  • xmousepadxxmousepadx Member Posts: 381 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2013
    mio1968 wrote: »
    Feedback: Armor Sets

    There is a bit of a problem with the overuse of armor penetration on HR sets. The maximum required resistance ignored is 24%. Now, every ranger has at a bare minimum 13 strength, which translates to 15 strength at level 60 and 5% resistance ignored, without campfire. This means, to be completely pve capped in armor penetration, one needs at most 19% resistance ignored, or 1850 armor penetration.

    The problem lies in the fact that several sets carry too much armor penetration. Both the Master Predator set and the Royal guard set carry 1271 armor penetration in stats, plus another 450 as a 2 piece bonus. Weapon sets carry another 450 armor penetration as a set bonus, and possibly more in stats. That already adds up to 2171 armor penetration. So, if we roll with the miminum possible strength, never use campfires, and handpick every other item, enchantment, pet, and relic to have zero armor penetration, we are still wasting 300 stat points. In reality, depending on luck, organization, and AD spent, the waste will be closer to 500-1000 stat points.

    I think that is worth a look.

    it isnt... just because u dont need any high end enchants to play pve plus its nice if u plan on playing some pvp.
    Play with 2 times 2 pieces of sets and take crit ones... problem solved
  • voltomeyvoltomey Member Posts: 1,052 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2013
    mio1968 wrote: »
    Feedback: Armor Sets

    There is a bit of a problem with the overuse of armor penetration on HR sets. The maximum required resistance ignored is 24%. Now, every ranger has at a bare minimum 13 strength, which translates to 15 strength at level 60 and 5% resistance ignored, without campfire. This means, to be completely pve capped in armor penetration, one needs at most 19% resistance ignored, or 1850 armor penetration.

    The problem lies in the fact that several sets carry too much armor penetration. Both the Master Predator set and the Royal guard set carry 1271 armor penetration in stats, plus another 450 as a 2 piece bonus. Weapon sets carry another 450 armor penetration as a set bonus, and possibly more in stats. That already adds up to 2171 armor penetration. So, if we roll with the miminum possible strength, never use campfires, and handpick every other item, enchantment, pet, and relic to have zero armor penetration, we are still wasting 300 stat points. In reality, depending on luck, organization, and AD spent, the waste will be closer to 500-1000 stat points.

    I think that is worth a look.

    Help me when i say you think are sets have to much armor pen and you want them to change it lord what people comming to
    Gang Busters PvP Guild Recruiting When Mod 6 goes live Pm Me for more Info If you have any Paladin question Message Me and i will get back to you ASAP
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I'm pretty happy with armor sets providing all the ArP I need, means I'll have at least one toon that doesn't need to stack ArP.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • djaruddjarud Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 62
    edited November 2013
    Blades just flat out have lower damage on them than bows, at the moment I only have level 12 blades, the best I could find, they are superior than the white ones available in PE so they are what I had to trail with.

    Combat Data
    Attack 476
    Crit 12.2% Severity 75
    Recharge 4%
    AP Gain 0%

    No Stance Switching to see the effect it has, just straight shooting the target.

    Weapon: Longbow of the Deep Forest 107-131

    81 Trials with 12 crits (not included in below data)
    Minimum:106
    Maximum:221
    Median:120
    Mode:121
    Mean:137
    S.D.: 32
    -1 S.D.:105
    +1 S.D.:169
    Actual Crit %:15%

    Weapon: +1 Piercing Scout's Blades 40-49

    79 Trials with 13 crits (not included in below data)

    Minimum: 53
    Maximum: 122
    Median: 58
    Mode: 54
    Mean: 75
    S.D.: 27
    -1 S.D.: 48
    +1 S.D.: 102
    Actual Crit %: 16%

    Feedback: Melee vs Ranged Damage
    Would be good if the weapon damage for these two combat modes was comparable.

    TR Data
    Level 17
    Stats: Str 15, Dex 19, Int 13, Cha 14 (No Campfire in Effect)

    Attack Data
    Attack 501
    Crit Chance 22% Severity 75%
    Recharge Increase 3%

    Weapons:
    Dagger of Balance 64-78 damage
    +2 Tempered Evader's Dagger 53-65 Damage

    Note even though I had blue gear available I only equipped green items and white rings.
    I did not use stealth or any other feature to increase damage above base for the character.

    Sly Flourish - 92 Trials 32 Crits (not included in data)
    Minimum: 153
    Maximum: 230
    Meadian: 167
    Mode: 166
    Mean: 176
    S.D.: 22
    -1 S.D.: 154
    +1 S.D.: 198
    Actual Crit %: 34%

    Note damage here is double to triple the damage listed for the Weapon, this makes it far, far clearer that the HR melee at-will is very much lacking in power.

    Cloud of Steel - 47 Trials with 9 crits (not included in calculations)
    Minimum: 72
    Maximum: 162
    Meadian: 93
    Mode: 72
    Mean: 103
    S.D.: 29
    -1 S.D.: 75
    +1 S.D.: 132
    Actual Crit %: 17%

    I did less trials because Cloud of Steel is more a burst damage at range and in truth isn't a great comparison for infinite Rapid shots. However the damage from the ranged attacks is similar in profile to the HR (comparing weapon to actual) suggesting that the Ranged portion of HR attacks is on track.

    Ok finally got my CW data;
    Attack 451
    Crit Chance 16.9% Severity 75%
    Recharge Increase 14.4%
    AP Gain +5.4%

    Weapon: +2 Lethal Caster's Orb 78-95,

    Magic Missile: (Tooltip: 54-62)
    Minimum: 55
    Maximum: 73
    Median: 65
    Mode: 65
    Mean: 64
    S.D.: 5
    -1 S.D.: 59
    +1 S.D.: 69
    Actual Crit %: 18%

    Ray of Frost: (Tooltip - 40-47)
    Minimum: 41
    Maximum: 54
    Median: 48
    Mode: 49
    Mean: 48
    S.D.: 3
    -1 S.D.: 45
    +1 S.D.: 51
    Actual Crit %: 19%

    Very different data for the CW than the TR, more inline with the HR damage at the time I did the testing for the HR. (Note that the CW does perform above tooltip still.) Given that the CW is a Controller and that the at-wills feed the encounters (note the high Recharge for level 17 with no effort put into optimizing it) this seems like an acceptable trade off.

    The general assumption is that the HR is a Striker/Controller (vs the Controller/Striker of CW), which suggests that the TR is a better guide for how the class should perform in general. The simple truth is if the CW is the guide the HR is fine for DPS but needs a lot stronger control effects (Grasping in particular needs a boost) and perhaps more power synergy (cf Chill/Arcane for CWs).

    Overall I think the data I can gather suggests the DPS is perhaps OK, maybe a little low, but the main issue is the huge discrepancy between the Bow and the Blades.


    Nice work with this, though sadly at current levels it leaves out the lack of proper, or... effective damage scaling for many of the Ranger skills, not to mention the fact that some of them are simply lacking in general (especially when you consider the tier requirement/s of them. Given the very low amount of so-called Control skills/effects, and the rather lackluster capability of said Controls, I feel the class is more of (atm) a subsidiary damage/support class as they seem more focused towards their little buffs and Nature path bonuses. Many of their skills are not all that well thought out, and the variances are enormous.

    At 56 (Ranged/Melee) Rapid Shot is 467-539/290-328 dmg, Split Shot is 8-2,062/314-355 (an enormous base gap), while the lvl 35 req Electric Shot only does 220-255/155-228. The swapping capability of the Class is effective, and interesting, but the Class still falls a good deal behind on nearly all of it's charges.

    At range, the class is in general too low dmg, with gaps that are far out of hand and too low Control,

    In Melee, the class is too low dmg, and although mobile, lack the actual evasiveness they should have, as well as their Support/Control capabilities being almost all about them being in Melee combat.
    Some things are meant to remain lost.
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