time between first and last proc: 4 minutes and 10 secs, 6 tenebrous enchants, 81 total procs. average proc time = 18.52 seconds. Please post your log now and show where you are getting 11.6...
Edit: note that it's from first proc to last, my next proc could have been as much as 19 seconds away, in which case 269/81= 3.32*6 enchants = 19.93 seconds
You're also assuming you never crit and that you're always at full health in your math. No daily is factored in and the encounter damage you are considering is really low. Probably a GF or GWF, think about a TR or a CW, they can output that much non crit with one encounter...
Sigh....
Im not going to say this again,
The FIRST TWO sets of procs will almost always be <20 seconds. If you go for proc 3+ its gonna be 20 sec CD.
ITS A SERVERSIDE CD.
Im too lazy to go redo the ACT logs, I posted results once, you can test it yourself.
SINCE its a serverside CD, the first two sets of procs will always be <20 seconds almost always because of how it works.
0
faiteaccompliiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2
imho, it would be "ok" for them to "fix" it if they did so 1-2 weeks from when it was bought into the game.. but for them to wait til a lot of players invested on it already and then decide that its actually "not functioning" as it should.. for me thats just scamming, plain and simple.
I agree completely! This is BAIT & SWITCH. PW is showing more and more why they are a fraudulent company.
Funny how all these poor scrubs in here are over joyed by this rip off scam. Give it time poor scrubs they will nerf, tweak and ruin this game more and more. From Stal Armor nerf, Selling enchants like Tranquil to this bs nerf PW is showing WHO they are. FOREIGN company built on RIPPING people OFF!
It starts with Tene and ends with whatever else some whinny poor scrub b*tches about next.
TENE is not PAY 2 WIN you scrubs. You can get TENE from AUCTION HOUSE using AD! P2W is something that can be OBTAINED ONLY WITH REAL CASH. Stop claiming pay 2 win because you are to stupid, lazy or pathetic to earn the ad to get what is needed to compete.
Another thing All you pathetic scrubs cheering this. YOU WILL STILL BE GARBAGE IN PVP.
Only difference is all the good players will have left this game for another. THAT will be only reason some of you scrubs will be any better. Then after a year they will shut servers DOWN. Because you poor f*ckers aren't paying PW sh*t to support this game. And they done pissed off every player that was supporting their game with cash so game wont last long going down this road. Why buy any keys for boxes if you cant trust in item you get? They change everything only a complete idiot would continue to invest in this company.
PS: Look me up I have NO TENES in ANY build I have.
But this is a scam move. What I understand is if they will do this now to TENE, then they could and will do this to other items. Are they even considering the players that have to REMOVE THESE? 253k each to remove. I recently stacked 5 GREATER TRANQUILS about a month ago only to find it was a FRAUD Enchantment aswell. I pulled all 5 for 253k each. This is not right to sell worthless enchants to players supporting your game. It is not right to change these enchants at ANYTIME you want after asking for real cash or ad for the enchants 6 monthes in?
So let me get this right, you wait to sell your BEST (most popular) enchant (TENEBROUS) to everyone possible. Then you pull the lock box from game and completely change the enchantment to be useless? AFTER 6 monthes and alot of key sales?
BAIT & SWITCH!!!
People have really invested ALOT of time & effort to build characters around their enchants. This move could completely ruin some players builds easily. PW should not be doing this and if they do I hope they are sued like Blizzard was.
In closing a reminder to you LAMES lurking and posting your HAPPY replys. Most of the scrubs posting here happy suck at PvP REGARDLESS! This does not help you! This is HAMSTER every member of the community. You stupid ones just dont know it yet.
This is my final post in this pathetic thread I will not be replying or going back and forth with anyone in here. This is how I feel and posted this to PW devs and mods.
And again I know you've lost several of your A-team already (I guess they got tired of being banned). Remember I have friends in your guild so I hear about the regular comings and going whether I care or not. Exactly why would I be bitter? I've simply stated how much of your guild acquired it's wealth and have responded to the incessant QQing of how unfair you think an appropriate nerf to a broken enchant is.
Again, you joined the guild later so I'm actually not talking about you with regards to the exploiting. I actually don't think that you exploited to get your gear because I've seen you with quite normal looking enchants as you've progressed. Others in your guild had the absolute best shortly after the game started when it wasn't humanly possible to get.
I'm sorry if I seem to be insulting what is apparently your biggest accomplishment in life. Again very sad.
It's not about the stupid enchant, its about the decision on how to REWORK them and WHEN.
Since the first tene nerf thread few months ago (originally started by LS members Zeanio & quitegonejin), which even before that jin realizing how strong tenes are and meeting the first ever sent gwf in game using them (see post date, 4 months ago, he's talking about my CW and roidz GWF).
All this time people were SURE tenes will be nerfed, people speculated which weekly patch will take care of them and although the enchant DID get ninja nerfed TWICE without letting the community know, they simply let it stay in the game, over the time people that were hesitant of buying them because of potential nerf finally caved in and bought them to even the play field, including the same Jin guy who joined our guild. now after several months into the game and the enchant building a staggering market value, they just decide to drastically change it, anyone who invested in it is looking at 20+ mil loss, none cares about the p2w players, they obviously can afford the loss.
Like i said in my first reply after this update, its not about balance, good players should have confidence in their skill and will figure out another way to stay at the top, it's more about this type of reply and decission "hai guys this is the new nerf, deal wid it afkbbqkthx".
Regarding your personal false accusations about my guild, can you please point out one name that was banned from our guild for exploits? I'm the founder and thus far we had 3 members banned for "quest share" when doing the sharandar weekly dungeon (and they were mainly PVE guys), that's it, and that's during 5 months of the guild existence. Me personally up untill 1 month before I quit the game I was rocking greater enchants, I could only afford perfects when my buddy quit and gave me his items. you do sound bitter and going off by hearsay, are you even from the original dragon server to know anything about us?
analyzing the thread here I would say that part that agrees with nerf of tenes, and part that disagrees are pretty close or even. I still think all that nerf is more of QQ of people who cant play pvp well.
this thing about relying on items more than skills, so is it the players fault if they can afford stuff and others not?
pvp is a combo of "items+skills". I know several players who have maxed stuff, g tenes and have no clue to what to do in PvP. it is just funny.
Analyzing a match at high level....SF and tenes abound. There is a reason.
This has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with game balance.
0
pandapaulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 424Bounty Hunter
edited October 2013
This enchant is by far the worst thing that has been introduced in this game.. The way it could be used in pvp is completely broken beyond anything else.. And needs to be nerfed and or removed from the game
An idea I had was introduce a NPC or something where u can trade the enchantments in..
Greater= trade for any rank 9 enchant
Normal= any rank 8
Lesser =any rank 7
This would at least give Something back to the players that invested in them.. And would remove alot of them from the game.. Which would be for the better
Us explaining and being against this nerf is evidently not about being 'scared' of a nerf because we think its why we are best, a lot of people have tenes, a lot of people dont that is really not what differentiates us
This is about why this nerf is totally flawed because all they have done is react to complaints from a population of players that do not even fully understand the game
for example all your mighty calculations and how they seem so strong when you dont even take in account the simplest of things like errmmm tenes do damage based on your current hp, so when you take damage your tenes basically become useless??
and so yes again it seems we must repeat, this nerf is not balance, this nerf is caving in to randoms complaining, and if they are going to work balance in this game on that foundation, well ouf it wont last to long.
An idea I had was introduce a NPC or something where u can trade the enchantments in..
Greater= trade for any rank 9 enchant
Normal= any rank 8
Lesser =any rank 7
This would at least give Something back to the players that invested in them.
I like this idea but on top of the trade in should be the FULL removal fee aswell So if you trade in a GREATER TENE you would get a ANY Rank 9 & 253,000 AD for the removal of the enchant. This is only way to do this bullsh*t fairly.
PW wont do it because they are in the business of HAMSTER its players. Hence, Stal Armor, Tranquil enchant, Tene Enchant just to name a few of the bs moves made by PW.
It's not about the stupid enchant, its about the decision on how to REWORK them and WHEN.
Since the first tene nerf thread few months ago (originally started by LS members Zeanio & quitegonejin), which even before that jin realizing how strong tenes are and meeting the first ever sent gwf in game using them (see post date, 4 months ago, he's talking about my CW and roidz GWF).
All this time people were SURE tenes will be nerfed, people speculated which weekly patch will take care of them and although the enchant DID get ninja nerfed TWICE without letting the community know, they simply let it stay in the game, over the time people that were hesitant of buying them because of potential nerf finally caved in and bought them to even the play field, including the same Jin guy who joined our guild. now after several months into the game and the enchant building a staggering market value, they just decide to drastically change it, anyone who invested in it is looking at 20+ mil loss, none cares about the p2w players, they obviously can afford the loss.
Like i said in my first reply after this update, its not about balance, good players should have confidence in their skill and will figure out another way to stay at the top, it's more about this type of reply and decission "hai guys this is the new nerf, deal wid it afkbbqkthx".
Regarding your personal false accusations about my guild, can you please point out one name that was banned from our guild for exploits? I'm the founder and thus far we had 3 members banned for "quest share" when doing the sharandar weekly dungeon (and they were mainly PVE guys), that's it, and that's during 5 months of the guild existence. Me personally up untill 1 month before I quit the game I was rocking greater enchants, I could only afford perfects when my buddy quit and gave me his items. you do sound bitter and going off by hearsay, are you even from the original dragon server to know anything about us?
Yep I've been on dragon since day one. Twist stuff however you want but when your guys were rocking perfects one month after launch it certainly wasn't from farming. I also know at least one of your guys got his gear from buying AD from a chinese gold farmer (he told me himself). Maybe I know more about your guild than you do. I can't expect a 16 year old GM to necessarily understand ethics I guess.
And Kidbs what does your personal vendetta and misplaced hatred towards us have anything to do with the conversation at hand, for someone that seems so keen on being to the book and ethical, you seem to be throwing an awful lot of personal insults around, wonder what that accomplishes
plus if you do think we have exploited our gear, then please instead of throwing blind accusations around do something productive instead and feel free to report us.
I don't have a personal vendetta against any of you, but a heck of a lot of the pushback to the nerf is coming from people in your guild which also happens to be one of the biggest users of the enchants in pvp. Also the blanket arrogant statements that the only complainers regarding tene enchants are bad pvpers doesn't make you any friends or garner any sympathy for your position either.
Look, I'm not stupid enough to think that the nerf is going to suddenly make the playing field even. There will always be gear imbalances in a p2w game, but this enchant does help to open up some rather OP builds that are extremely hard to counter without dropping ridiculous amounts of AD. Yes there is a disparity between rank 5 and rank 10 enchants, as well as lesser and perfect enchants, but at least you can dodge, block, and mitigate the damage increase that you get from those. Tenebrous enchants give you guaranteed burst that is always going to land. That is just flawed design and is bad for competitive pvp. You guys do want competition that isn't limited to more than a handful of people right?
yes and we strongly believe that tenes are not the cause of the problem, and when i say people do not fully understand the game, i am not saying they are bad, they simply dont know about everything that has to be known about balance and strategie in the game, and that is why you result to looking at the highest lvl of play when it comes to balancing a game, not the lowest
and tenes are not a problem at that level, where it matters
plus you say tenes are to strong because they give guaranteed damage, which they dont because once again i must say that tenes are dependent on your current hp, so their damage if far from guaranteed, on top that most people seem to ignore the fact that you sacrifice an immense amount of stats by slotting in tenes, plus most people in this thread agree anyway that them not being dodgeable could be a problem, including myself
I'm sorry for the people used money for get the tene, but was obvious they will nerf it after allt he complain about the lame pvp, the immortal build, the one shot skill. Now they finally look at this and notice the tene was ignoring 3 stat. We can't do nothing, because you got the tene in the lockbox (lottery) and you can't ask money back, because you used a key for open it, so the item work. In all the game is normal see fix for get game balance and since day 1, all the nerf goes on PvP and make the PvE very hard sometimes, so people, don't try kill boss legal, but they find all day new bug/glitch. Prob whit the tene fix and some more nerf skill ( sad ) the pve comunity will get another kick in the ball, thx to the PvP comunity asking for balance
Totally agree with u hustle, it seems there could have been so many other measures PWE could have taken to avoid resorting to this. I use to use tenes but b/c of this 'conveniently timely fix' lolz at system dev u just realized after months the effect tenes dmg does, i experimented with another build that I like even more than tene build. A lot of ppl who use tenes is bc they want to premade with others who are well geared and good players who knows their class and how to build it for pvp. It won't change the fact that knowledgable and skilled players will overpower the inexperienced and ineffective build players in pvp. Its gunna be back to square 1 and ppl will find other things in the game to nit pick on demanding it be changed. There are many other things in this game that still needs to be fixed it makes one wonder if it was quality tested properly or if timely prevention were made to fix enchants, stats etc for a more balanced gameplay. I mean there are literally thousands of feedback PWE receives from people who plays and knows the game that changes could of been made for more balanced pvp in the early stages of the game, not months down the track after so much time effort and resources were made to achieve the desired build. There's also GMs in pvp too on top of that.
I'm not really ticked off i had to waste AD to change my build, but because the fact that some ppl i know have spent resources including their hard earn money in investing in tene build one week before this announcement is very unfair to them. They be lucky to get back half the value of these enchants. But worst of all is many of my friends who i run dd and pvp with that i have ran with since the beginning of the game have already left NW bc of all the changes being constantly made including this one announced.
Yes there are ppl happy about this change, but the backlash is the ones who have bought zen for keys or ad with RL money or have worked very hard have been totally alienated bc of these constant changes. Its an mmo, there is always room to improve your character for effectiveness in pvp, it takes time, research, experience, experimentation and resources. Like the saying goes hate the game not the player.
The enchant is currently balanced for certain classes. CW or TR will see 15-20% of their overall dps come from tenebrous currently, while sacrificing 1800-2100 stat points!!! If GF and GWF are seeing 35%+, maybe it's those classes that need to be looked at or the enchant changed for them only devs. If you do your proposed nerf, The enchant will be useless for at least 2 classes...
You know, just take a step back and think about it for a second...
An enchant that scales off a defensive quality (HP) that does more damage offensively the more you stack HP. Not ONLY that, it ALSO completely ignores ALL DR/deflect and dodge mechanics...
I understand people saved up, farmed, spent AD, spent real money to get. But that doesnt change the fact the enchant really is overpowered right now in this game.
not only that, but its no longer attainable in boxes.
The MAJOR issue I have with cryptic is that they didnt fix this enchant a long time ago, when they nerfed it to 20 sec CD. I said it even back then, it didnt even fix the problem at all, it still dominates PVP.
Now they havnt fully announced ALL the changes and exactly HOW its going to work. I have tried to show many times in this thread how its STILL going to be arguably BIS for pvp, although SOME builds may run better without them now, as where it is now, its BIS for pretty much all classes stacking around it.
This isnt the first time games have significantly nerfed items, Diablo 3 did this recently... Its part of the territory of the game. If something is clearly OP you can bet its going to be nerfed...
Now is it dumb it took them THIS long? Sure, but its happening.... So lets move on and I look at it this way.
tenebrous currently can be used as a crutch for weaker players to play well. This nerf will really separate the bad from the good players. If you consider yourself good, well youll find either a new build, or a way to optimize the one you have with tenes. If your a bad player, well the nerf was needed and you may need to learn to get better.
agreed, this should have been fixed a long time ago. As it is most people that wanted to dominate in pvp have already spent money to buy. That said this enchant needs to be adjusted. Just making dodge work against it isn't enough because it can proc on at wills. You dodge but your only delaying the inevitable burst on the next at will. Not to mention when it glitches and you get a double full proc in less than 20 secs.
I think that stacked GT tank builds, like GT sents and GFs, have a really weird mechanic.
It's true that GT damage is based on current HP, but i think that the flaw in some points of view is cause they are used to think looking at their matches premade vs premade.
In such matches, you're never at full HP. There's Always some high level enemy attacking you. But in normal pugs? If there's a DC with the sent/ GF? Out of Lemonade Stand vs Enemy team kind of PvP, there are many situations in which a sentinel tank or a GF tank with stacked tenes can be at full, or almost full HP. A TR attacking out of stealth is at full HP. A CW attacking from the distance is at full HP.
Plus, a GF entering a brawl will point at 1 guy and charge him. It will be his 1st attack and he will be at full HP. Considering the chain prone mechanic of GFs in PvP, it's possible to be killed by tenes without being able to react. I'm talking about pugs, which are the majority of the matches. It's not uncommon to be at full HP when attacking. And, in fact, the problems are when such builds enter the pug PvP, and you never have problems when they are in a high level premade vs premade. But the latter is a minority of matches, and you've to look at the enchants/ builds in a global point of view, considering the most common scenery. A GT sentinel entering a pug (i've fough a bunch of them) can hardly be countered by the enemy pug. Far more than a build filled with rank 10 darks.
It's just different from rank 10 darks cause while rank 10 deliver a constant increase of damage to armored enemies, GTenes stacked deliver a monster burst damage if used by high HP sentinels or GFs.
Also, while rank 10 are effective the same way for all classes (you get the same ArP on a GF, a GWF or a TR), GTenes damage is far better on a 37-40k hp sentinel compared to a 27-28k hp TR or a CW.
It's true that you sacrifice stats by slotting tenebrous enchants, but it's also true that no stat in the game lets you deliver 7k burst damage on a GF or sentinel. And in PvP i would say that burst damage is what count the most.
So, obviously, an enchant that can deliver such burst damage outclasses the other enchants, when used on top of a tank regeneration build.
ArP alone is not enough. Crit is needed. To have more crit, you need to sacrifice defensive stats compared to the tene build. A Tene build can have a full focused tank build, while achieving a high burst damage every 20 seconds.
Just guessing, no math. But i would say Burst damage in PvP > than constant damage
Things i can say i agree with is the tene damage being dogeable, and that if by chance the enchant becomes useless, they should just remove it and give an Astral Diamond refund to the owners comparable to the price of the enchant in the AH before the nerf announce.
Also, i agree that if necrotic damage is supposed to pass through all defenses, you can't change it just for 1 enchant.
On the other hand, i can't just trust a bunch of guys, no matter how experienced they are, and be sure that the enchant is balanced the way it is. I guess cryptic makes its own tests and has its own math. Would be good a confrontation between the part of community that tested the enchant and uses it, and the devs, to clear the matter behind GTenes.
They're now testing it, so nothing is marked in stone already.
I agree with what Lantis, and many other people have said.
That they purchased an item with real $$ that is supposed to do "x". Now they are changing it to do "Y". On a business standpoint that is absolutely terrible.
Someone made a reference to a car. You buy a lambo from the dealership, and overnight they change into a volkswagon. Any sane person would be extremely pissed, and rightfully so.
They never should have allowed Tenebrous enchants to ignore resistances. However, I'm not aware that it was common knowledge at the beginning, that this enchant was supposed to ignore any sort of resist. If I'm wrong lemme know.
Either way, it does need to be changed. An enchant that doesn't follow the rules is so over the top pay to win they should fire the guy that forgot to code in its proper responsibilities.
That being said, from a business side. They absolutely should reimburse all the Tene users, from the lesser, to the greater. There should be some sort of trade in type vendor that will allow you to give back your Tenes(lesser on up to greater), for the current market value.
I really see no other way of unfu!king this giant mistake. It has to be fixed. But paying customers do deserve reimbursement for a falsely advertised product.
Comments
Yeah Alysin, you can't do any damage in PVP. Geez. L2P, bro! :cool:
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
Does he kill Any sentinel GWF like you and your godly CWs buddies? OH WAIT...nvm x).
Nah, I suck at PVP. Can't kill a dang thing. I wish I was in a guild like Haste or Lemonade Stand. Those guys are undefeated.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
Haste? It is a 2 man army guild. We are so cool and too sexy for our shirts
I also suck at PvP, but i do adore turtles and trains
Don't think anyone that has pvp'd against me would say that however.
High deflect TR builds/gear still do insane dmg. Ask all the dead people =P
But dead people can't talk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrWwjFF3F2E&feature=player_detailpage
This ones against Silent Blade(played cannon fodder the first couple minutes of the vid, keep watching=)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge80ArpA5a0&feature=player_detailpage
lol THE BEST
PvP GWF - BizzyBedBug
PvE GF (salvaged)
PvE TR (salvaged)
GWF PvP/CW PvE @ http://www.twitch.tv/bizzyplusplus/
Sigh....
Im not going to say this again,
The FIRST TWO sets of procs will almost always be <20 seconds. If you go for proc 3+ its gonna be 20 sec CD.
ITS A SERVERSIDE CD.
Im too lazy to go redo the ACT logs, I posted results once, you can test it yourself.
SINCE its a serverside CD, the first two sets of procs will always be <20 seconds almost always because of how it works.
I agree completely! This is BAIT & SWITCH. PW is showing more and more why they are a fraudulent company.
Funny how all these poor scrubs in here are over joyed by this rip off scam. Give it time poor scrubs they will nerf, tweak and ruin this game more and more. From Stal Armor nerf, Selling enchants like Tranquil to this bs nerf PW is showing WHO they are. FOREIGN company built on RIPPING people OFF!
It starts with Tene and ends with whatever else some whinny poor scrub b*tches about next.
TENE is not PAY 2 WIN you scrubs. You can get TENE from AUCTION HOUSE using AD! P2W is something that can be OBTAINED ONLY WITH REAL CASH. Stop claiming pay 2 win because you are to stupid, lazy or pathetic to earn the ad to get what is needed to compete.
Another thing All you pathetic scrubs cheering this. YOU WILL STILL BE GARBAGE IN PVP.
Only difference is all the good players will have left this game for another. THAT will be only reason some of you scrubs will be any better. Then after a year they will shut servers DOWN. Because you poor f*ckers aren't paying PW sh*t to support this game. And they done pissed off every player that was supporting their game with cash so game wont last long going down this road. Why buy any keys for boxes if you cant trust in item you get? They change everything only a complete idiot would continue to invest in this company.
PS: Look me up I have NO TENES in ANY build I have.
But this is a scam move. What I understand is if they will do this now to TENE, then they could and will do this to other items. Are they even considering the players that have to REMOVE THESE? 253k each to remove. I recently stacked 5 GREATER TRANQUILS about a month ago only to find it was a FRAUD Enchantment aswell. I pulled all 5 for 253k each. This is not right to sell worthless enchants to players supporting your game. It is not right to change these enchants at ANYTIME you want after asking for real cash or ad for the enchants 6 monthes in?
So let me get this right, you wait to sell your BEST (most popular) enchant (TENEBROUS) to everyone possible. Then you pull the lock box from game and completely change the enchantment to be useless? AFTER 6 monthes and alot of key sales?
BAIT & SWITCH!!!
People have really invested ALOT of time & effort to build characters around their enchants. This move could completely ruin some players builds easily. PW should not be doing this and if they do I hope they are sued like Blizzard was.
In closing a reminder to you LAMES lurking and posting your HAPPY replys. Most of the scrubs posting here happy suck at PvP REGARDLESS! This does not help you! This is HAMSTER every member of the community. You stupid ones just dont know it yet.
This is my final post in this pathetic thread I will not be replying or going back and forth with anyone in here. This is how I feel and posted this to PW devs and mods.
Play: PILLAGER* of the DEAD! By: Hempy NW-DNV3R9B4J
~HEMPY'S CRIT-GEN GUARDIAN FIGHTER BUILD~
It's not about the stupid enchant, its about the decision on how to REWORK them and WHEN.
Since the first tene nerf thread few months ago (originally started by LS members Zeanio & quitegonejin), which even before that jin realizing how strong tenes are and meeting the first ever sent gwf in game using them (see post date, 4 months ago, he's talking about my CW and roidz GWF).
All this time people were SURE tenes will be nerfed, people speculated which weekly patch will take care of them and although the enchant DID get ninja nerfed TWICE without letting the community know, they simply let it stay in the game, over the time people that were hesitant of buying them because of potential nerf finally caved in and bought them to even the play field, including the same Jin guy who joined our guild. now after several months into the game and the enchant building a staggering market value, they just decide to drastically change it, anyone who invested in it is looking at 20+ mil loss, none cares about the p2w players, they obviously can afford the loss.
Like i said in my first reply after this update, its not about balance, good players should have confidence in their skill and will figure out another way to stay at the top, it's more about this type of reply and decission "hai guys this is the new nerf, deal wid it afkbbqkthx".
Regarding your personal false accusations about my guild, can you please point out one name that was banned from our guild for exploits? I'm the founder and thus far we had 3 members banned for "quest share" when doing the sharandar weekly dungeon (and they were mainly PVE guys), that's it, and that's during 5 months of the guild existence. Me personally up untill 1 month before I quit the game I was rocking greater enchants, I could only afford perfects when my buddy quit and gave me his items. you do sound bitter and going off by hearsay, are you even from the original dragon server to know anything about us?
Analyzing a match at high level....SF and tenes abound. There is a reason.
This has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with game balance.
An idea I had was introduce a NPC or something where u can trade the enchantments in..
Greater= trade for any rank 9 enchant
Normal= any rank 8
Lesser =any rank 7
This would at least give Something back to the players that invested in them.. And would remove alot of them from the game.. Which would be for the better
This is about why this nerf is totally flawed because all they have done is react to complaints from a population of players that do not even fully understand the game
for example all your mighty calculations and how they seem so strong when you dont even take in account the simplest of things like errmmm tenes do damage based on your current hp, so when you take damage your tenes basically become useless??
and so yes again it seems we must repeat, this nerf is not balance, this nerf is caving in to randoms complaining, and if they are going to work balance in this game on that foundation, well ouf it wont last to long.
I like this idea but on top of the trade in should be the FULL removal fee aswell So if you trade in a GREATER TENE you would get a ANY Rank 9 & 253,000 AD for the removal of the enchant. This is only way to do this bullsh*t fairly.
PW wont do it because they are in the business of HAMSTER its players. Hence, Stal Armor, Tranquil enchant, Tene Enchant just to name a few of the bs moves made by PW.
Play: PILLAGER* of the DEAD! By: Hempy NW-DNV3R9B4J
~HEMPY'S CRIT-GEN GUARDIAN FIGHTER BUILD~
Yep I've been on dragon since day one. Twist stuff however you want but when your guys were rocking perfects one month after launch it certainly wasn't from farming. I also know at least one of your guys got his gear from buying AD from a chinese gold farmer (he told me himself). Maybe I know more about your guild than you do. I can't expect a 16 year old GM to necessarily understand ethics I guess.
Look, I'm not stupid enough to think that the nerf is going to suddenly make the playing field even. There will always be gear imbalances in a p2w game, but this enchant does help to open up some rather OP builds that are extremely hard to counter without dropping ridiculous amounts of AD. Yes there is a disparity between rank 5 and rank 10 enchants, as well as lesser and perfect enchants, but at least you can dodge, block, and mitigate the damage increase that you get from those. Tenebrous enchants give you guaranteed burst that is always going to land. That is just flawed design and is bad for competitive pvp. You guys do want competition that isn't limited to more than a handful of people right?
and tenes are not a problem at that level, where it matters
I'm not really ticked off i had to waste AD to change my build, but because the fact that some ppl i know have spent resources including their hard earn money in investing in tene build one week before this announcement is very unfair to them. They be lucky to get back half the value of these enchants. But worst of all is many of my friends who i run dd and pvp with that i have ran with since the beginning of the game have already left NW bc of all the changes being constantly made including this one announced.
Yes there are ppl happy about this change, but the backlash is the ones who have bought zen for keys or ad with RL money or have worked very hard have been totally alienated bc of these constant changes. Its an mmo, there is always room to improve your character for effectiveness in pvp, it takes time, research, experience, experimentation and resources. Like the saying goes hate the game not the player.
An enchant that scales off a defensive quality (HP) that does more damage offensively the more you stack HP. Not ONLY that, it ALSO completely ignores ALL DR/deflect and dodge mechanics...
I understand people saved up, farmed, spent AD, spent real money to get. But that doesnt change the fact the enchant really is overpowered right now in this game.
not only that, but its no longer attainable in boxes.
The MAJOR issue I have with cryptic is that they didnt fix this enchant a long time ago, when they nerfed it to 20 sec CD. I said it even back then, it didnt even fix the problem at all, it still dominates PVP.
Now they havnt fully announced ALL the changes and exactly HOW its going to work. I have tried to show many times in this thread how its STILL going to be arguably BIS for pvp, although SOME builds may run better without them now, as where it is now, its BIS for pretty much all classes stacking around it.
This isnt the first time games have significantly nerfed items, Diablo 3 did this recently... Its part of the territory of the game. If something is clearly OP you can bet its going to be nerfed...
Now is it dumb it took them THIS long? Sure, but its happening.... So lets move on and I look at it this way.
tenebrous currently can be used as a crutch for weaker players to play well. This nerf will really separate the bad from the good players. If you consider yourself good, well youll find either a new build, or a way to optimize the one you have with tenes. If your a bad player, well the nerf was needed and you may need to learn to get better.
Just make the changes quickly so we can move on.
It's true that GT damage is based on current HP, but i think that the flaw in some points of view is cause they are used to think looking at their matches premade vs premade.
In such matches, you're never at full HP. There's Always some high level enemy attacking you. But in normal pugs? If there's a DC with the sent/ GF? Out of Lemonade Stand vs Enemy team kind of PvP, there are many situations in which a sentinel tank or a GF tank with stacked tenes can be at full, or almost full HP. A TR attacking out of stealth is at full HP. A CW attacking from the distance is at full HP.
Plus, a GF entering a brawl will point at 1 guy and charge him. It will be his 1st attack and he will be at full HP. Considering the chain prone mechanic of GFs in PvP, it's possible to be killed by tenes without being able to react. I'm talking about pugs, which are the majority of the matches. It's not uncommon to be at full HP when attacking. And, in fact, the problems are when such builds enter the pug PvP, and you never have problems when they are in a high level premade vs premade. But the latter is a minority of matches, and you've to look at the enchants/ builds in a global point of view, considering the most common scenery. A GT sentinel entering a pug (i've fough a bunch of them) can hardly be countered by the enemy pug. Far more than a build filled with rank 10 darks.
It's just different from rank 10 darks cause while rank 10 deliver a constant increase of damage to armored enemies, GTenes stacked deliver a monster burst damage if used by high HP sentinels or GFs.
Also, while rank 10 are effective the same way for all classes (you get the same ArP on a GF, a GWF or a TR), GTenes damage is far better on a 37-40k hp sentinel compared to a 27-28k hp TR or a CW.
It's true that you sacrifice stats by slotting tenebrous enchants, but it's also true that no stat in the game lets you deliver 7k burst damage on a GF or sentinel. And in PvP i would say that burst damage is what count the most.
So, obviously, an enchant that can deliver such burst damage outclasses the other enchants, when used on top of a tank regeneration build.
ArP alone is not enough. Crit is needed. To have more crit, you need to sacrifice defensive stats compared to the tene build. A Tene build can have a full focused tank build, while achieving a high burst damage every 20 seconds.
Just guessing, no math. But i would say Burst damage in PvP > than constant damage
Things i can say i agree with is the tene damage being dogeable, and that if by chance the enchant becomes useless, they should just remove it and give an Astral Diamond refund to the owners comparable to the price of the enchant in the AH before the nerf announce.
Also, i agree that if necrotic damage is supposed to pass through all defenses, you can't change it just for 1 enchant.
On the other hand, i can't just trust a bunch of guys, no matter how experienced they are, and be sure that the enchant is balanced the way it is. I guess cryptic makes its own tests and has its own math. Would be good a confrontation between the part of community that tested the enchant and uses it, and the devs, to clear the matter behind GTenes.
They're now testing it, so nothing is marked in stone already.
That they purchased an item with real $$ that is supposed to do "x". Now they are changing it to do "Y". On a business standpoint that is absolutely terrible.
Someone made a reference to a car. You buy a lambo from the dealership, and overnight they change into a volkswagon. Any sane person would be extremely pissed, and rightfully so.
They never should have allowed Tenebrous enchants to ignore resistances. However, I'm not aware that it was common knowledge at the beginning, that this enchant was supposed to ignore any sort of resist. If I'm wrong lemme know.
Either way, it does need to be changed. An enchant that doesn't follow the rules is so over the top pay to win they should fire the guy that forgot to code in its proper responsibilities.
That being said, from a business side. They absolutely should reimburse all the Tene users, from the lesser, to the greater. There should be some sort of trade in type vendor that will allow you to give back your Tenes(lesser on up to greater), for the current market value.
I really see no other way of unfu!king this giant mistake. It has to be fixed. But paying customers do deserve reimbursement for a falsely advertised product.