My problem with them, is I believe that nothing in this game should completely ignore stats. I don't care what sort of damage it is.
If they want to continue to have Tenebrous the way it is. I would ask them to introduce actual PvP gear to combat it. As in gear with resistances, so we can build gear to fight it.
Your going to say use barkshield, or stack rads for more health. Yes. I agree, this does help. But only for the first encounter, then its useless, and Tenebrous continue doing what they do.. This is completely a$$ backwards mechanics.
Let me have actual PvP gear with resistances; Radiant, necrotic, CC % duration, and let us have player made Resistant enchants.
You could have 50 perfect tenebrous for all I care, if they had gear with permanent %increase's with defensive properties.
Fine then, if you want them to take stats into consideration like other damage types, how about they take into account Arp as well, Crit or Power? Why would you stop solely at defensive stats and render the item useless?
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Fine then, if you want them to take stats into consideration like other damage types, how about they take into account Arp as well, Crit or Power? Why would you stop solely at defensive stats and render the item useless?
I agree...I've got no problem with that, IF we had actual PvP gear.
Each damage source takes a charge, so no it doesn't take away the entire barkshield in 1 encounter, it actually blocks the vast majority of Tene damage. Tene's have a 20 sec cd while barkshield replenishes a stack every 8 seconds, you will block more damage than tene's will deal with barkshield.
Of course people that are unwilling to farm or spend to get the best gear want the best gear nerfed, seems logical right?
Barkshield is 3 charges.
Tene procs have a small CD, so pretty much constant.
Having PvP gear with permanent resistances would be excellent for this game, and they wouldn't have to change Tenes at all.
I'm not asking for any nerf. This WAS a discussion into how we fealt about the up coming changes to Tenes. I'm expressing my opinion, and all you've got is sarcasm and telling me I am unwilling to farm or spend money which obviously you haven't a clue who I am in the first place. You need to relax a bit kid and try and have a normal conversation.
Btw, I'd love to know your @handle if your willing
Tene procs have a small CD, so pretty much constant.
Having PvP gear with permanent resistances would be excellent for this game, and they wouldn't have to change Tenes at all.
I'm not asking for any nerf. This WAS a discussion into how we fealt about the up coming changes to Tenes. I'm expressing my opinion, and all you've got is sarcasm and telling me I am unwilling to farm or spend money which obviously you haven't a clue who I am in the first place. You need to relax a bit kid and try and have a normal conversation.
Btw, I'd love to know your @handle if your willing
@cribstaxxx most people's forum name is their @handle. We would be happy to do some PvP.
Actually this thread was originally a guide showing how players could DEAL with tene's, not how they could be nerfed into uselessness b/c bad players don't like fighting against them and certainly aren't going to gear up for PvP.
If people would just follow said guide you would do 100% better vs. tene's. There are only 2 damage types that ignore resistances, necrotic and radiant, and no new tene's are coming into the game (except the few holdouts that still have some nightmare boxes) so why do we need armor that specifically negates necrotic and radiant damage lol? I know this statement is overused and stupid, but people honestly just need to learn how to play against tene's.
PvP is about 75% tactics and rotations in high end premade vs. premade
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
While tenes need adjusting....if we ever want competitive PVP with ladders and what not...then the devs have a long way to go.
They need to clean up the cheats. Way to many 'addons' that enhance someones game play. Radar overlays client side, ip bursting....etc I mean, he/she has gotta keep the health/stamina going even though he/she just took lethal damage or teleported 5 times!..bah....you kids go back to bickering about some silly enchant instead of looking at the bigger picture.
@cribstaxxx most people's forum name is their @handle. We would be happy to do some PvP.
Actually this thread was originally a guide showing how players could DEAL with tene's, not how they could be nerfed into uselessness b/c bad players don't like fighting against them and certainly aren't going to gear up for PvP.
If people would just follow said guide you would do 100% better vs. tene's. There are only 2 damage types that ignore resistances, necrotic and radiant, and no new tene's are coming into the game (except the few holdouts that still have some nightmare boxes) so why do we need armor that specifically negates necrotic and radiant damage lol? I know this statement is overused and stupid, but people honestly just need to learn how to play against tene's.
PvP is about 75% tactics and rotations in high end premade vs. premade
I meant your character names.
Why do we need/want armor with resistances? Have you not ever played another MMO where resistance gear was huge in PvP? I'm not going to explain why resistance gear in PvP would be viable.
I've killed many gtene users, why you keep resorting back to telling me I don't know how to play is childish.
I'm trying very hard to have a normal conversation with you but I think I'm about done
While tenes need adjusting....if we ever want competitive PVP with ladders and what not...then the devs have a long way to go.
They need to clean up the cheats. Way to many 'addons' that enhance someones game play. Radar overlays client side, ip bursting....etc I mean, he/she has gotta keep the health/stamina going even though he/she just took lethal damage or teleported 5 times!..bah....you kids go back to bickering about some silly enchant instead of looking at the bigger picture.
Lol radar overlays and 5 dodges? Are you trolling us =P
Btw with severe reaction procs + last boon 5 almost back to back dodges could be possible.
And yes Tene's are far from constant, seems like every time someone's SF goes off all of my Tene's just went on CD...
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I think it was ayroux that did the math. Average CD was I believe 11.7 seconds or something..
No ayroux had to admit that only the first proc had a small chance to be between 12-16 seconds, and all subsequent procs were ~20 seconds. He posted that like 12 pages back though heh.
the only special damage types are necrotic and radiant is what I'm saying, so you want to negate 2 weapon enchants and tene's is about all resistances will block. The damage from the enchant itself is very minimal in all cases except tene.
My newer CW is the only one I have geared atm - Professor Chaos - I have 6 60's though, 1 of each class and that is my 2nd CW that I made specifically for PvP.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I think it was ayroux that did the math. Average CD was I believe 11.7 seconds or something..
People always see what they want to see. I posted a log from act showing they were 18.5, and could have been as high as 19.92 if you considered when the next proc was. But sure, take the word of the guy that just said some numbers without providing any evidence or log files, and said he was too lazy to do so.
I have heard about people being immune to damage when they shouldn't be but I've never seen anything like that personally. Never seen any "extra" stamina either that I could tell. I dunno though I guess it's possible.
Lol so what is radar overlay though? Sounds like a maphack or something, which isn't really a big deal in PvP especially if people are on vent.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I little more math for those interested. I tried to be as neutral on this as possible, but as always the parameters play to biases, so take for what you will.
To me you are most at danger during an encounter rotation, so I wanted to see how Tenebrous stacked up burst damage wise vs rank 10 ArPen on a GWF during one encounter rotation. Why GWF, because playing one makes it easy for me to have some base numbers to go by.
My theoretical GWF is going to be an Orc with perfect vorpal giving him 250% crits with feats. Gearwise I will make him the same spec, stats, and gear as my dwarf GWF when I am playing around with more DPS weapons/rings, neck. So that would give him around 399 ArPen which is about 3% resist ignore with a 22 Con giving 13.8 resist ignore with feats. So he will have a total of 17.8% resit ignore with 0 dark enchantments. With master of arms up, he will have around 40% crit and 40% deflect. He has about 55% Damage Resistance and 36,000 HPs. At this point he has 6 empty offensive enchantments.
His rotation will consist of Fourish, Knockdown, IBS to maximize single target damage. We won't take into account Student of the Sword or other debuffs in this scenario.
Rough Baseline Damage for these abilities against 0 damage resistance. (about what I see on mine before crit)
IBS - 5400 normal 13,500 crit
Flourish - 4300 normal 10,750 crit
Takedown - 3200 normal 8000 crit
Avg between Normal hits and Crits with 40% damage taken into account. These will be our baseline averages for comparison. We are going to assume nothing is dodged or blocked, nor that there are any resistance buffs.
8640 Avg IBS
6880 Avg Flourish
5120 Avg Takedown
The first scenario is mirror with our theoretical GWF fighting himself, one with 6 rank 10 Darks and the other with 6 Tenebrous. Going from 399 ArPen to 2499 ArPen should give around 20% resist ignore, so with ArPen it is about 37.8% total resist ignore. ^ Tenebrous at 36,000 HPs gives 6480 damage.
Baseline damage after damage reduction 55% and deflect averages DMG*(.45 DR +.178 Resist Ignore)*(.8 Deflect)
4341 Avg - IBS
3457 Avg - Flourish
2572 Avg - Takedown
Total - 10370 dmg
+ 6480 Tenebrous dmg = 16850 dmg total = 62.5% damage increase
+ 20% resist ignore (.45+.378 mod) = 13671 dmg total = 31.8% damage increase
Tenebrous user would have to be at lower than 49% health to do less damage.
Next one assumes they have low level Unstoppable adding 25% DR for a total of 80% DR.
Baseline damage after damage reduction 80% and deflect averages DMG*(.20 DR +.178 Resist Ignore)*(.8 Deflect)
3266 Avg - IBS
2081 Avg - Flourish
1548 Avg - Takedown
Total - 6895 dmg
+ 6480 Tenebrous dmg = 13375 dmg total = 94% damage increase
+ 20% resist ignore (.20 +.378 mod) = 9543 dmg total = 38.4% damage increase
Tenebrous user has to be at less than 40.8% health to do less damage.
Now that is two turtles, so I wanted to see what our theoretical Orc looked like against a lower DR character. I am not as familiar with the exact statistics or rogues or CW, so I tried to come up with something closer to what I have inspected. Our theoretical TR has 25% DR and 20% deflect (at a 75% reduction).
Baseline damage after damage reduction 20% and deflect averages DMG*(.75 DR +.178 Resist Ignore)*(.85 Deflect)
6815 Avg - IBS
5427 Avg - Flourish
3801 Avg - Takedown
Total - 16043 dmg
+ 6480 Tenebrous dmg = 22523 dmg total = 40.4% damage increase
+ 20% resist ignore (.75 +.378 mod) = 17544 dmg total = 9.36% damage increase (12.8% resist ignore wasted)
Tenebrous user has to be at less than 23.16% health to do less damage.
Keep in mind this assumes none of the encounters are dodged, or countered by other means.
Mindflayer - Exodus
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
I little more math for those interested. I tried to be as neutral on this as possible, but as always the parameters play to biases, so take for what you will.
To me you are most at danger during an encounter rotation, so I wanted to see how Tenebrous stacked up burst damage wise vs rank 10 ArPen on a GWF during one encounter rotation. Why GWF, because playing one makes it easy for me to have some base numbers to go by.
My theoretical GWF is going to be an Orc with perfect vorpal giving him 250% crits with feats. Gearwise I will make him the same spec, stats, and gear as my dwarf GWF when I am playing around with more DPS weapons/rings, neck. So that would give him around 399 ArPen which is about 3% resist ignore with a 22 Con giving 13.8 resist ignore with feats. So he will have a total of 17.8% resit ignore with 0 dark enchantments. With master of arms up, he will have around 40% crit and 40% deflect. He has about 55% Damage Resistance and 36,000 HPs. At this point he has 6 empty offensive enchantments.
His rotation will consist of Fourish, Knockdown, IBS to maximize single target damage. We won't take into account Student of the Sword or other debuffs in this scenario.
Rough Baseline Damage for these abilities against 0 damage resistance. (about what I see on mine before crit)
IBS - 5400 normal 13,500 crit
Flourish - 4300 normal 10,750 crit
Takedown - 3200 normal 8000 crit
Avg between Normal hits and Crits with 40% damage taken into account. These will be our baseline averages for comparison. We are going to assume nothing is dodged or blocked, nor that there are any resistance buffs.
8640 Avg IBS
6880 Avg Flourish
5120 Avg Takedown
The first scenario is mirror with our theoretical GWF fighting himself, one with 6 rank 10 Darks and the other with 6 Tenebrous. Going from 399 ArPen to 2499 ArPen should give around 20% resist ignore, so with ArPen it is about 37.8% total resist ignore. ^ Tenebrous at 36,000 HPs gives 6480 damage.
Baseline damage after damage reduction 55% and deflect averages DMG*(.45 DR +.178 Resist Ignore)*(.8 Deflect)
4341 Avg - IBS
3457 Avg - Flourish
2572 Avg - Takedown
Total - 10370 dmg
+ 6480 Tenebrous dmg = 16850 dmg total = 62.5% damage increase
+ 20% resist ignore (.45+.378 mod) = 13671 dmg total = 31.8% damage increase
Tenebrous user would have to be at lower than 49% health to do less damage.
Next one assumes they have low level Unstoppable adding 25% DR for a total of 80% DR.
Baseline damage after damage reduction 80% and deflect averages DMG*(.20 DR +.178 Resist Ignore)*(.8 Deflect)
3266 Avg - IBS
2081 Avg - Flourish
1548 Avg - Takedown
Total - 6895 dmg
+ 6480 Tenebrous dmg = 13375 dmg total = 94% damage increase
+ 20% resist ignore (.20 +.378 mod) = 9543 dmg total = 38.4% damage increase
Tenebrous user has to be at less than 40.8% health to do less damage.
Now that is two turtles, so I wanted to see what our theoretical Orc looked like against a lower DR character. I am not as familiar with the exact statistics or rogues or CW, so I tried to come up with something closer to what I have inspected. Our theoretical TR has 25% DR and 20% deflect (at a 75% reduction).
Baseline damage after damage reduction 20% and deflect averages DMG*(.75 DR +.178 Resist Ignore)*(.85 Deflect)
6815 Avg - IBS
5427 Avg - Flourish
3801 Avg - Takedown
Total - 16043 dmg
+ 6480 Tenebrous dmg = 22523 dmg total = 40.4% damage increase
+ 20% resist ignore (.75 +.378 mod) = 17544 dmg total = 9.36% damage increase (12.8% resist ignore wasted)
Tenebrous user has to be at less than 23.16% health to do less damage.
Keep in mind this assumes none of the encounters are dodged, or countered by other means.
Your numbers on what a tenebrous user's life would have to be at to do the damage are so far off. 1. You only considered one encounter of rotations when you can do more than that in the tenebrous cooldown. 2. You only considered encounters. Do you just sit around not attacking when your encounters aren't up? These will change your numbers drastically!
I have heard about people being immune to damage when they shouldn't be but I've never seen anything like that personally. Never seen any "extra" stamina either that I could tell. I dunno though I guess it's possible.
Lol so what is radar overlay though? Sounds like a maphack or something, which isn't really a big deal in PvP especially if people are on vent.
it is a very big deal when it is reading location packets that are not available to the rest of the community and negates things such as stealth.
Your numbers on what a tenebrous user's life would have to be at to do the damage are so far off. 1. You only considered one encounter of rotations when you can do more than that in the tenebrous cooldown. 2. You only considered encounters. Do you just sit around not attacking when your encounters aren't up? These will change your numbers drastically!
A full rotation comes in around once every 12 seconds I believe with those encounters. So one rotation with and one without. Not to mention in the time in between rotation my opponent will be doing a lot of things to mitigate my damage as well. People tend to not stand still and let you beat on them like a targeting dummy.
And the numbers are not off the user's life. The damage is directly related to % hps correct. SO if it takes 3301 less damage to equal the the Dark enchant user, then 3301/6480 and then inverted gives you an exact amount at what point their damage would be equal during the rotation.
Mindflayer - Exodus
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
Dark/rad are constant dmg. Mostly making your atwills hit a ton harder. Tene is just burst. It averages out to be about the same. And as a gwf u are doing a ton of atwills compared to other clases. Also as a gwf its not logical to run more then 5 tene unless u want to be paper
U R 2 E Z- SENT IV GWF undefeated 16k GS
FaceRoller- regen recovery TR (put on the shelf for now) 14k GS
Supreme CHAOS - IV GF (put on the shelf for now) 16k GS
White Khalifa- tene/hp/regen CW (retired) 11k GS (tene)
Death From Above- TANK ranger 16kGS
(all halfling everything)
A full rotation comes in around once every 12 seconds I believe with those encounters. So one rotation with and one without. Not to mention in the time in between rotation my opponent will be doing a lot of things to mitigate my damage as well. People tend to not stand still and let you beat on them like a targeting dummy.
And the numbers are not off the user's life. The damage is directly related to % hps correct. SO if it takes 3301 less damage to equal the the Dark enchant user, then 3301/6480 and then inverted gives you an exact amount at what point their damage would be equal during the rotation.
Let me try this again then so maybe you will understand. How can you use 3301 as the number when you say you will get 2 rotations off in the tenebrous cooldown. And you never hit your target with at wills at all is still used in this assumption. That 3301 is so far from accurate. It's like saying, here take these 12 seconds of damage vs this 20 seconds of damage, and oh yeah I won't even try to hit you in between.
And GWF are constantly chasing around targets, even other GWFs and GFs don't sit still and let you beat on them. And their at will damage is quickly regenerated/healed when you aren't being a target dummy.
Mindflayer - Exodus
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
Let me try this again then so maybe you will understand. How can you use 3301 as the number when you say you will get 2 rotations off in the tenebrous cooldown. And you never hit your target with at wills at all is still used in this assumption. That 3301 is so far from accurate.
And I suppose your targets simply sit there and let you hit them, yes?
Mindflayer - Exodus
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
Dark/rad are constant dmg. Mostly making your atwills hit a ton harder. Tene is just burst. It averages out to be about the same. And as a gwf u are doing a ton of atwills compared to other clases. Also as a gwf its not logical to run more then 5 tene unless u want to be paper
and what damage wins in pvp.... ?
wait for it....
Yeah....
Edit: Paper ?.... Oh I guess the class features and abilities that make a Sent GWF so tough to kill are meaningless, like all the bonus deflect and damage....
Let's not forget those regen rings !!
Oh and the Radiant Rank 9's in the Defense Slots...
It is getting to the point of ridiculousness on how Tene users keep trying to defend Tene's by devaluing them...
Or talking bad about them or claiming People should Specifically build their characters to defend ONLY against Tenebrous players by using Barkshield ( with no data to back that up )...
But they will not remove the Tenebrous from their own characters.
they know it's OP
..that is why they use them !
they know it's broken
...That is why they use them !
they know the enchants do the fighting for them.
...You get my drift...
And I suppose your targets simply sit there and let you hit them, yes?
Why do people always turn to stupid arguments in these situations? You're trying to provide numbers, as in math for a comparison of tenebrous and other enchant damage. Well by your logic now, if you're running around and never hit an opponent, the damage is equal because neither enchant hits anything. You either hit or you don't, you can't say oh I dodged here but not there when trying to compare damage output. You can't take into account random variables like hiding behind pillars or dodges, that is related to playstyle and not the math behind the comparison.
It is getting to the point of ridiculousness on how Tene users keep trying to defend Tene's by devaluing them...
Or talking bad about them or claiming People should Specifically build their characters to defend ONLY against Tenebrous players by using Barkshield ( with no data to back that up )...
But they will not remove the Tenebrous from their own characters.
they know it's OP
..that is why they use them !
they know it's broken
...That is why they use them !
they know the enchants do the fighting for them.
...You get my drift...
The only thing I know is that you don't know what you're talking about. Clearly the only thing you're familiar with is daily pug pvp. Sorry, your opinion doesn't count.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Why do people always turn to stupid arguments in these situations? You're trying to provide numbers, as in math for a comparison of tenebrous and other enchant damage. Well by your logic now, if you're running around and never hit an opponent, the damage is equal because neither enchant hits anything. You either hit or you don't, you can't say oh I dodged here but not there when trying to compare damage output. You can't take into account random variables like hiding behind pillars or dodges, that is related to playstyle and not the math behind the comparison.
They aren't stupid numbers, it is PvP. PvP does not happen in a vacuum. In PvP your opponents use counters. They dodge, they block, they move out of range, they use abilities that guaruntee deflects, or increase their DR, they heal, they regen, they use other players to block targeting, they use object to block your attacks. I am sure I am missing a bunch. Straight DPS does not occur. That is the false argument that you can use straight DPS numbers. It has been proven time and time again, that DPS does not kill people in pvp, burst damage kills them because it kills them before they can counter it.
You can't take straight DPS numbers you gain from ArPen when much of it will be counter in 20 seconds. The only constant here is the Tenebrous damage which is unavoidable close to every 20 seconds short of running away.
Mindflayer - Exodus
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
They aren't stupid numbers, it is PvP. PvP does not happen in a vacuum. In PvP your opponents use counters. They dodge, they block, they move out of range, they use abilities that guaruntee deflects, or increase their DR, they heal, they regen, they use other players to block targeting, they use object to block your attacks. I am sure I am missing a bunch. Straight DPS does not occur. That is the false argument that you can use straight DPS numbers. It has been proven time and time again, that DPS does not kill people in pvp, burst damage kills them because it kills them before they can counter it.
Well said, but there are many ways to do burst damage, and despite Tenebrouses being very good in this department, they are certainly NOT the best way.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Well said, but there are many ways to do burst damage, and despite Tenebrouses being very good in this department, they are certainly NOT the best way.
The best way is timed debuffs and focus fire, which requires solid coordination the vast majority of teams in this game lack. Tenebrous can be counter intuitive to maximizing this. That being said, which is better. The lost extra damage from using tenebrous during a specific focus fire/debuff assault, or eating the loss there for the sudden bursts from tenebrous to put targets suddenly much lower in health than they would otherwise be and much more vulnerable to sudden focus fire.
Mindflayer - Exodus
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
They aren't stupid numbers, it is PvP. PvP does not happen in a vacuum. In PvP your opponents use counters. They dodge, they block, they move out of range, they use abilities that guaruntee deflects, or increase their DR, they heal, they regen, they use other players to block targeting, they use object to block your attacks. I am sure I am missing a bunch. Straight DPS does not occur. That is the false argument that you can use straight DPS numbers. It has been proven time and time again, that DPS does not kill people in pvp, burst damage kills them because it kills them before they can counter it.
You can't take straight DPS numbers you gain from ArPen when much of it will be counter in 20 seconds. The only constant here is the Tenebrous damage which is unavoidable close to every 20 seconds short of running away.
When comparing damage output, you need to assume that damage occurs. Let me give you 2 examples then.
Scenario 1: User with normal enchants runs away the entire match and never gets hit, he takes 0 damage from tenebrous.
Scenario 2: User with normal enchants hit tenebrous user once with whatever skill doing x damage while not getting hit.
Guess who just won by an infinite amount? Do you see why you can't do it this way?
Comments
Fine then, if you want them to take stats into consideration like other damage types, how about they take into account Arp as well, Crit or Power? Why would you stop solely at defensive stats and render the item useless?
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
I agree...I've got no problem with that, IF we had actual PvP gear.
Barkshield is 3 charges.
Tene procs have a small CD, so pretty much constant.
Having PvP gear with permanent resistances would be excellent for this game, and they wouldn't have to change Tenes at all.
I'm not asking for any nerf. This WAS a discussion into how we fealt about the up coming changes to Tenes. I'm expressing my opinion, and all you've got is sarcasm and telling me I am unwilling to farm or spend money which obviously you haven't a clue who I am in the first place. You need to relax a bit kid and try and have a normal conversation.
Btw, I'd love to know your @handle if your willing
@cribstaxxx most people's forum name is their @handle. We would be happy to do some PvP.
Actually this thread was originally a guide showing how players could DEAL with tene's, not how they could be nerfed into uselessness b/c bad players don't like fighting against them and certainly aren't going to gear up for PvP.
If people would just follow said guide you would do 100% better vs. tene's. There are only 2 damage types that ignore resistances, necrotic and radiant, and no new tene's are coming into the game (except the few holdouts that still have some nightmare boxes) so why do we need armor that specifically negates necrotic and radiant damage lol? I know this statement is overused and stupid, but people honestly just need to learn how to play against tene's.
PvP is about 75% tactics and rotations in high end premade vs. premade
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
tenes have a 20 second cooldown, how long are your fights in pvp ? mine certainly dont last that long
They need to clean up the cheats. Way to many 'addons' that enhance someones game play. Radar overlays client side, ip bursting....etc I mean, he/she has gotta keep the health/stamina going even though he/she just took lethal damage or teleported 5 times!..bah....you kids go back to bickering about some silly enchant instead of looking at the bigger picture.
I meant your character names.
Why do we need/want armor with resistances? Have you not ever played another MMO where resistance gear was huge in PvP? I'm not going to explain why resistance gear in PvP would be viable.
I've killed many gtene users, why you keep resorting back to telling me I don't know how to play is childish.
I'm trying very hard to have a normal conversation with you but I think I'm about done
I think it was ayroux that did the math. Average CD was I believe 11.7 seconds or something..
Lol radar overlays and 5 dodges? Are you trolling us =P
Btw with severe reaction procs + last boon 5 almost back to back dodges could be possible.
And yes Tene's are far from constant, seems like every time someone's SF goes off all of my Tene's just went on CD...
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
No ayroux had to admit that only the first proc had a small chance to be between 12-16 seconds, and all subsequent procs were ~20 seconds. He posted that like 12 pages back though heh.
the only special damage types are necrotic and radiant is what I'm saying, so you want to negate 2 weapon enchants and tene's is about all resistances will block. The damage from the enchant itself is very minimal in all cases except tene.
My newer CW is the only one I have geared atm - Professor Chaos - I have 6 60's though, 1 of each class and that is my 2nd CW that I made specifically for PvP.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I wish I was trolling cribb....I only wish.
People always see what they want to see. I posted a log from act showing they were 18.5, and could have been as high as 19.92 if you considered when the next proc was. But sure, take the word of the guy that just said some numbers without providing any evidence or log files, and said he was too lazy to do so.
I have heard about people being immune to damage when they shouldn't be but I've never seen anything like that personally. Never seen any "extra" stamina either that I could tell. I dunno though I guess it's possible.
Lol so what is radar overlay though? Sounds like a maphack or something, which isn't really a big deal in PvP especially if people are on vent.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Back too the tenes fun thread...
P.S. Anyone seen that rogue? He was standing RIGHT there?
To me you are most at danger during an encounter rotation, so I wanted to see how Tenebrous stacked up burst damage wise vs rank 10 ArPen on a GWF during one encounter rotation. Why GWF, because playing one makes it easy for me to have some base numbers to go by.
My theoretical GWF is going to be an Orc with perfect vorpal giving him 250% crits with feats. Gearwise I will make him the same spec, stats, and gear as my dwarf GWF when I am playing around with more DPS weapons/rings, neck. So that would give him around 399 ArPen which is about 3% resist ignore with a 22 Con giving 13.8 resist ignore with feats. So he will have a total of 17.8% resit ignore with 0 dark enchantments. With master of arms up, he will have around 40% crit and 40% deflect. He has about 55% Damage Resistance and 36,000 HPs. At this point he has 6 empty offensive enchantments.
His rotation will consist of Fourish, Knockdown, IBS to maximize single target damage. We won't take into account Student of the Sword or other debuffs in this scenario.
Rough Baseline Damage for these abilities against 0 damage resistance. (about what I see on mine before crit)
IBS - 5400 normal 13,500 crit
Flourish - 4300 normal 10,750 crit
Takedown - 3200 normal 8000 crit
Avg between Normal hits and Crits with 40% damage taken into account. These will be our baseline averages for comparison. We are going to assume nothing is dodged or blocked, nor that there are any resistance buffs.
8640 Avg IBS
6880 Avg Flourish
5120 Avg Takedown
The first scenario is mirror with our theoretical GWF fighting himself, one with 6 rank 10 Darks and the other with 6 Tenebrous. Going from 399 ArPen to 2499 ArPen should give around 20% resist ignore, so with ArPen it is about 37.8% total resist ignore. ^ Tenebrous at 36,000 HPs gives 6480 damage.
Baseline damage after damage reduction 55% and deflect averages DMG*(.45 DR +.178 Resist Ignore)*(.8 Deflect)
4341 Avg - IBS
3457 Avg - Flourish
2572 Avg - Takedown
Total - 10370 dmg
+ 6480 Tenebrous dmg = 16850 dmg total = 62.5% damage increase
+ 20% resist ignore (.45+.378 mod) = 13671 dmg total = 31.8% damage increase
Tenebrous user would have to be at lower than 49% health to do less damage.
Next one assumes they have low level Unstoppable adding 25% DR for a total of 80% DR.
Baseline damage after damage reduction 80% and deflect averages DMG*(.20 DR +.178 Resist Ignore)*(.8 Deflect)
3266 Avg - IBS
2081 Avg - Flourish
1548 Avg - Takedown
Total - 6895 dmg
+ 6480 Tenebrous dmg = 13375 dmg total = 94% damage increase
+ 20% resist ignore (.20 +.378 mod) = 9543 dmg total = 38.4% damage increase
Tenebrous user has to be at less than 40.8% health to do less damage.
Now that is two turtles, so I wanted to see what our theoretical Orc looked like against a lower DR character. I am not as familiar with the exact statistics or rogues or CW, so I tried to come up with something closer to what I have inspected. Our theoretical TR has 25% DR and 20% deflect (at a 75% reduction).
Baseline damage after damage reduction 20% and deflect averages DMG*(.75 DR +.178 Resist Ignore)*(.85 Deflect)
6815 Avg - IBS
5427 Avg - Flourish
3801 Avg - Takedown
Total - 16043 dmg
+ 6480 Tenebrous dmg = 22523 dmg total = 40.4% damage increase
+ 20% resist ignore (.75 +.378 mod) = 17544 dmg total = 9.36% damage increase (12.8% resist ignore wasted)
Tenebrous user has to be at less than 23.16% health to do less damage.
Keep in mind this assumes none of the encounters are dodged, or countered by other means.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
Your numbers on what a tenebrous user's life would have to be at to do the damage are so far off. 1. You only considered one encounter of rotations when you can do more than that in the tenebrous cooldown. 2. You only considered encounters. Do you just sit around not attacking when your encounters aren't up? These will change your numbers drastically!
it is a very big deal when it is reading location packets that are not available to the rest of the community and negates things such as stealth.
A full rotation comes in around once every 12 seconds I believe with those encounters. So one rotation with and one without. Not to mention in the time in between rotation my opponent will be doing a lot of things to mitigate my damage as well. People tend to not stand still and let you beat on them like a targeting dummy.
And the numbers are not off the user's life. The damage is directly related to % hps correct. SO if it takes 3301 less damage to equal the the Dark enchant user, then 3301/6480 and then inverted gives you an exact amount at what point their damage would be equal during the rotation.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
FaceRoller- regen recovery TR (put on the shelf for now) 14k GS
Supreme CHAOS - IV GF (put on the shelf for now) 16k GS
White Khalifa- tene/hp/regen CW (retired) 11k GS (tene)
Death From Above- TANK ranger 16kGS
(all halfling everything)
Proud rank 6 of: <Enemy Team>
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Let me try this again then so maybe you will understand. How can you use 3301 as the number when you say you will get 2 rotations off in the tenebrous cooldown. And you never hit your target with at wills at all is still used in this assumption. That 3301 is so far from accurate. It's like saying, here take these 12 seconds of damage vs this 20 seconds of damage, and oh yeah I won't even try to hit you in between.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
And I suppose your targets simply sit there and let you hit them, yes?
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
and what damage wins in pvp.... ?
wait for it....
Yeah....
Edit: Paper ?.... Oh I guess the class features and abilities that make a Sent GWF so tough to kill are meaningless, like all the bonus deflect and damage....
Let's not forget those regen rings !!
Oh and the Radiant Rank 9's in the Defense Slots...
Yeah, Paper................... GG
Or talking bad about them or claiming People should Specifically build their characters to defend ONLY against Tenebrous players by using Barkshield ( with no data to back that up )...
But they will not remove the Tenebrous from their own characters.
they know it's OP
..that is why they use them !
they know it's broken
...That is why they use them !
they know the enchants do the fighting for them.
...You get my drift...
Why do people always turn to stupid arguments in these situations? You're trying to provide numbers, as in math for a comparison of tenebrous and other enchant damage. Well by your logic now, if you're running around and never hit an opponent, the damage is equal because neither enchant hits anything. You either hit or you don't, you can't say oh I dodged here but not there when trying to compare damage output. You can't take into account random variables like hiding behind pillars or dodges, that is related to playstyle and not the math behind the comparison.
The only thing I know is that you don't know what you're talking about. Clearly the only thing you're familiar with is daily pug pvp. Sorry, your opinion doesn't count.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
They aren't stupid numbers, it is PvP. PvP does not happen in a vacuum. In PvP your opponents use counters. They dodge, they block, they move out of range, they use abilities that guaruntee deflects, or increase their DR, they heal, they regen, they use other players to block targeting, they use object to block your attacks. I am sure I am missing a bunch. Straight DPS does not occur. That is the false argument that you can use straight DPS numbers. It has been proven time and time again, that DPS does not kill people in pvp, burst damage kills them because it kills them before they can counter it.
You can't take straight DPS numbers you gain from ArPen when much of it will be counter in 20 seconds. The only constant here is the Tenebrous damage which is unavoidable close to every 20 seconds short of running away.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
Well said, but there are many ways to do burst damage, and despite Tenebrouses being very good in this department, they are certainly NOT the best way.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
The best way is timed debuffs and focus fire, which requires solid coordination the vast majority of teams in this game lack. Tenebrous can be counter intuitive to maximizing this. That being said, which is better. The lost extra damage from using tenebrous during a specific focus fire/debuff assault, or eating the loss there for the sudden bursts from tenebrous to put targets suddenly much lower in health than they would otherwise be and much more vulnerable to sudden focus fire.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
When comparing damage output, you need to assume that damage occurs. Let me give you 2 examples then.
Scenario 1: User with normal enchants runs away the entire match and never gets hit, he takes 0 damage from tenebrous.
Scenario 2: User with normal enchants hit tenebrous user once with whatever skill doing x damage while not getting hit.
Guess who just won by an infinite amount? Do you see why you can't do it this way?