There is only imbalance if you don't have them, its as simple as that. If you don't have Perfect Enchants then there is imbalance when you play against someone who does. If you have rank 5s and play against someone with rank 10s, there is imbalance. If you have T2 gear and play against someone in Blues, there is imbalance. That doesnt prove anything. All that it tells you is that better items are better. So shall we start nerfing the best of the best because the casual population can't get them?
Honestly the difference between rank 5 enchants and rank 10s isn't nearly as big as the difference between those who have greater tenes and those who don't. Weapon enchants, armor enchants, and greater tenes are a much larger factor in pvp than regular enchants.
Gctrl get over yourself dude. Your guild has had some of the worst exploiters in the game. I'm a competitive player without the need for the tene crutch. It's just funny how much you guys are crying over a much needed fix to a very broken enchant. You should welcome a more even playing field rather than get upset over it.
I've put a lot of time into my characters so the insinuation that those of us without rank 10s, perfects, and greater tenes don't is just silly. People like me are the ones that actually earned our gear legit without using dup exploits, bots, etc... I know that you joined LS a little bit later, but it is well known that most of the originators of your guild are major exploiters. Playing the work hard ethic (in a video game on top of it) doesn't fly with your guild.
the way I see, if tenes become a crappy enchantment, the same people asked the nerf of it will come back to this forum and start to ask for new nerfs (classes, enchantments). because the tene users will find another way, another build to back to rule pvp. that is what happens when things are nerfed.
for instance, P Vorpal is an expensive enchantment, and most people don't want to spend money in the game because they think it is silly, or some just cannot afford it. So, analyzing this factor, should P vorpal be nerfed just like tenes?
If i run a build on my gwf with darks 8, 9. I will still Kill people. I will just kill a bit slower, without the burst tenes give. Personally, i like more tenes to finish off than anything. So if I fight people that cannot afford the darks 8,9 or P vorpal do you think they will not complain of find something else to do?
you know what is the problem of all that?
nerfing stuff like this only harms the game, because if you keep nerfing the game, the players who "support" the game and are good pvpers will eventually get tired of switching new builds and buying new enchantments, after all, it is money and I won't be wasting cash in a game so everytime what I buy will be nerfed because major part of the game population has no condition to afford for the same thing.
it is just wrong.
My way to fix it, a better way. Its just make new Q system crypt. Make fresh 60 play pvp with up 9k gs, and make 9k gs play with up 10k gs, and so on. and create a premade Q too.
because I am sure, if tenes become an useless enchantment, it is matter of time that people will come to forum complain about different stuff.
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Honestly the difference between rank 5 enchants and rank 10s isn't nearly as big as the difference between those who have greater tenes and those who don't. Weapon enchants, armor enchants, and greater tenes are a much larger factor in pvp than regular enchants.
You do know that Lesser and Normal Tenes exist, right? Lol. So by your logic there isnt a big gap between Lessers and Greaters right? So how about all the whiners get lessers or normals then, and then there will be nothing to complain about, right? Wrong. All that will happen is that people will continue to make excuses for their lack of success in PvP.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Alright, so when Tenes get nerfed, I'll be seeing you around in pvp then right? Doubtful. This game has been around for nearly half a year. If you're still complaining now you will always be complaining.
I pvp daily regardless so you will continue to see me in matches. Let me flip I your statement and say that people like you will always look for a leg up on someone else rather than relying on skill.
Let me also say that it's not like I've made any other threads complaining about these obvious imbalances before, so I'm hardly a whiner like you're currently trying to paint me. I just think that a tenebrous change is a good thing for the state of pvp and the amount of QQing about it from the minority of you is just funny. And trust me you are in the minority.
You guys made me remember another game called "Mu Online".
They introduced few years ago a new class called Rage fighter. it pretty much "killed the pvp" of the game, because the class was all in ONE. DPS, TANK. and would kill everyone else so fast. and many ppl started create threads and threads asking for nerf the class.
The company didn't give a ****, and the game is still out there. and running.
However, me and a few friends who played a different class, something like a warrior. we tried different builds. and we found ways to make this new class just look <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and weak in PvP.
Soon all game started to copy us there, its just some ppl are not born to play pvp.
Eventually I quit the game there because the company started to make cash stuff too expensive, and in-game buffs that ppl started to buy for pvp.
and to walk "max" stuff, you would have to spend nearly 150 USD monthly, and besides already investing in gear, and leveling up (which is expensive, and veeeeeeeeery slow if you dont buy experience buffs, the game has 730 lvls). I quit. a lot of friends quit and we moved to different games and so I am here. Nerfing stuff is not solution as you guys see, people will always find a new way to rule pvp, keeping nerfing stuff that dont really needs nerf, or huge nerfs these stuff will only make people get tired of the game eventually, especially when it is about stuff people spent real money
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
You do know that Lesser and Normal Tenes exist, right? Lol. So by your logic there isnt a big gap between Lessers and Greaters right? So how about all the whiners get lessers or normals then, and then there will be nothing to complain about, right? Wrong. All that will happen is that people will continue to make excuses for their lack of success in PvP.
Lesser and normal tenebrous enchants aren't even worth the cost. You know this so stop being contrary. Fight for your crutches until your last breath. I'll continue to do well in pvp regardless of what happens. I just think that this is a positive step while you're obviously scared that it is going to negatively affect your teams ability to compete.
I pvp daily regardless so you will continue to see me in matches. Let me flip I your statement and say that people like you will always look for a leg up on someone else rather than relying on skill.
Let me also say that it's not like I've made any other threads complaining about these obvious imbalances before, so I'm hardly a whiner like you're currently trying to paint me. I just think that a tenebrous change is a good thing for the state of pvp and the amount of QQing about it from the minority of you is just funny. And trust me you are in the minority.
analyzing the thread here I would say that part that agrees with nerf of tenes, and part that disagrees are pretty close or even. I still think all that nerf is more of QQ of people who cant play pvp well.
this thing about relying on items more than skills, so is it the players fault if they can afford stuff and others not?
pvp is a combo of "items+skills". I know several players who have maxed stuff, g tenes and have no clue to what to do in PvP. it is just funny.
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Let me say one other thing. I do actually sympathize with those of you who did spend real life money or AD that they earned by grinding content. I have no sympathy for the so-called leet pvpers who obtained theirs through ill-gotten means. Many of those guys were walking around with perfects, greater tenes, and rank 10s less than one month after the game started. Guess how they got those things. It was a big part of why many wanted the game completely wiped and started over.
analyzing the thread here I would say that part that agrees with nerf of tenes, and part that disagrees are pretty close or even. I still think all that nerf is more of QQ of people who cant play pvp well.
this thing about relying on items more than skills, so is it the players fault if they can afford stuff and others not?
pvp is a combo of "items+skills". I know several players who have maxed stuff, g tenes and have no clue to what to do in PvP. it is just funny.
I think you probably want to step away from the talk of who can afford these items and who can't especially with regards to the people in your guild (I dont think you want the dirty laundry of how enemy team started aired in this thread).
I know for a fact that I am a good pvper so that does not affect my stance on this topic.
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
There is only imbalance if you don't have them, its as simple as that. If you don't have Perfect Enchants then there is imbalance when you play against someone who does. If you have rank 5s and play against someone with rank 10s, there is imbalance. If you have T2 gear and play against someone in Blues, there is imbalance. That doesnt prove anything. All that it tells you is that better items are better. So shall we start nerfing the best of the best because the casual population can't get them?
Easy Tiger. I have a Greater Soulforge. I have no issue fighting against someone with a Perfect. I ran with a Greater Vorpal for a long, long time. I just got a Perfect. It's a slight difference, mainly against the tankier types, but no big deal. I have all Rank 8s. have no issue fighting people with Rank 10s. Why? The difference is minor? Rank 5s vs Rank 10s? Sure, that's a difference, but how easy is it to get Rank 7s? Not hard at all.
Now, since we're all "bad players" and you're all "good players," you clearly won't have an issue with lesser enchants, would you? Since you clearly have much more skill than other players, something like a little nerf won't hurt you at all, will it? Heck, maybe it'll even offer you a little challenge.
Let me say one other thing. I do actually sympathize with those of you who did spend real life money or AD that they earned by grinding content. I have no sympathy for the so-called leet pvpers who obtained theirs through ill-gotten means. Many of those guys were walking around with perfects, greater tenes, and rank 10s less than one month after the game started. Guess how they got those things. It was a big part of why many wanted the game completely wiped and started over.
I think you probably want to step away from the talk of who can afford these items and who can't especially with regards to the people in your guild (I dont think you want the dirty laundry of how enemy team started aired in this thread).
I know for a fact that I am a good pvper so that does not affect my stance on this topic.
I am glad you do. I am seeing a close friend of this game that said about quit because all cash he spent on the game. By the way, watch my channel videos, you see the other game I played there Mu Online? if you see my videos there. that Blade Knight on this video is minem, and had over 3k thousand dollar invested. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7yceyEij0M now you can understand how some people that started the game 3, 4 months ago had money to afford perfect stuff since their fresh lvl 60. rather than listen to broken heart guilds upset that their name pvp ppl left their ranks for a building a more competitive guild. I think this stuff was expected with the server merger, but some think that there is only one guild in the whole game who can afford stuff. but well, I guess some people think only LS has the right to heavily invest money in a game. welcome to the server merger:)
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
I am glad you do. I am seeing a close friend of this game that said about quit because all cash he spent on the game. By the way, watch my channel videos, you see the other game I played there Mu Online? if you see my videos there. that Blade Knight on this video is minem, and had over 3k thousand dollar invested. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7yceyEij0M now you can understand how some people that started the game 3, 4 months ago had money to afford perfect stuff since their fresh lvl 60. rather than listen to broken heart guilds upset that their name pvp ppl left their ranks for a building a more competitive guild. I think this stuff was expected with the server merger, but some think that there is only one guild in the whole game who can afford stuff. but well, I guess some people think only LS has the right to heavily invest money in a game. welcome to the server merger:)
You may have spent money on the game but not everyone in your guild did to get their shiny new perfects and rank 10s. Same case with LS. And lol at the idea that you would need to spend $3k of real life money to be "competitive". Is that really what you consider competition?
Your guild and LS can have fun fighting each other since you're likely the only ones who can field players that have the same level of gear. I would personally get bored with that though.
You may have spent money on the game but not everyone in your guild did to get their shiny new perfects and rank 10s. Same case with LS. And lol at the idea that you would need to spend $3k of real life money to be "competitive". Is that really what you consider competition?
Your guild and LS can have fun fighting each other since you're likely the only ones who can field players that have the same level of gear. I would personally get bored with that though.
Well Pal, it is capitalism. this game called mu online I played for over 8 years. and this was only one of my toons there. people always want to be the best of the best in these games. Some players are hardcore, some are casual. but yeah, i do regret of investing much in there since I ended up quitting, but no problem. I recovered most of the investment when I sold my stuff in that other game.
as regarding of our people, and LS people. these stuff will be said in any mmo i guess. When I played D3, Mu online, cabal, i heard a lot of it too. For example, I was "1x1" one GWF other day, and he was complaining that I was probably a cheater because I interrupted his crescendo, or because his takedown didnt work, stuff like that.
or when I used spin stike and canceled with sprinting with steel defense for 5 sec immunity (thing I used a lot when i started to play). ppl called me hacker too. too bad they nerfed it and now spin uses way more AP:(, it was a fun gameplay.
people will always talk about other people.
I am sure everyone of my guild has the same condition I do, I know Sheep for example from years, and his char in that other game was even richer than mine. you look his videos you will see his chars in mu online, and diablo 3. all geared to the teeth. so if you guys got a complain, you can always report and let the company look for anything instead start spreading trashtalking from our previous guild who got broken heart when we decided to leave them. that is what I think. it is just funny that in my face, the old gm speak so nice, and on our backs i found out he was spreading stuff like that... good to see what kind of person he was after all. but anyway. hope i cleared up some of your thoughts. as for the some of LS you said, I am sure they are just like us, and invested time and money in the game. its kind of bad when you see people trashtalk like that for nothing in a forum when we were trying to have a healthy dicusion about tenes, but well.
yes, sometimes we get bored. but that is what i said earlier about competition, some players are more than others. and if we dont invest, someone will do and take all the crown. does it make sense? for some players that is how it works. its like in martial arts, some go there for fun, some go there to prove themselves and be competitive and fight hard... its just the way some people are. i do agree with you tho about it making boring and sometimes no fun. but i guess it will change if the devs ever bring a massive guild x guild content. like maybe 50 ppl x 50 ppl to rule/control a territory or something like it. each strongest guild only have about what, 5~8 people extermely geared? so it will be very fun if you see. because alone these 5, 8 players wont be able to do all by themselves, and the role of players who cant or dont want afford so much money will increase.
I am going out for lunch now, be back later to play some pvp. cya guys
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Well Pal, it is capitalism. this game called mu online I played for over 8 years. and this was only one of my toons there. people always want to be the best of the best in these games. Some players are hardcore, some are casual. but yeah, i do regret of investing much in there since I ended up quitting, but no problem. I recovered most of the investment when I sold my stuff in that other game.
as regarding of our people, and LS people. these stuff will be said in any mmo i guess. When I played D3, Mu online, cabal, i heard a lot of it too. For example, I was "1x1" one GWF other day, and he was complaining that I was probably a cheater because I interrupted his crescendo, or because his takedown didnt work, stuff like that.
or when I used spin stike and canceled with sprinting with steel defense for 5 sec immunity (thing I used a lot when i started to play). ppl called me hacker too. too bad they nerfed it and now spin uses way more AP:(, it was a fun gameplay.
people will always talk about other people.
I am sure everyone of my guild has the same condition I do, I know Sheep for example from years, and his char in that other game was even richer than mine. you look his videos you will see his chars in mu online, and diablo 3. all geared to the teeth. so if you guys got a complain, you can always report and let the company look for anything instead start spreading trashtalking from our previous guild who got broken heart when we decided to leave them. that is what I think. it is just funny that in my face, the old gm speak so nice, and on our backs i found out he was spreading stuff like that... good to see what kind of person he was after all. but anyway. hope i cleared up some of your thoughts. as for the some of LS you said, I am sure they are just like us, and invested time and money in the game. its kind of bad when you see people trashtalk like that for nothing in a forum when we were trying to have a healthy dicusion about tenes, but well. going out for lunch now, be back later to play some pvp. cya guys
Have a nice lunch. When the information about how your guild got it's enchants comes from the mouth of one of your founding guildies, I can hardly consider that spreading lies. Anyway, I've said my peace in this thread. People can continue to argue back and forth about what should happen to tenes. In the end, the devs will do whatever they want.
I pvp daily regardless so you will continue to see me in matches. Let me flip I your statement and say that people like you will always look for a leg up on someone else rather than relying on skill.
Let me also say that it's not like I've made any other threads complaining about these obvious imbalances before, so I'm hardly a whiner like you're currently trying to paint me. I just think that a tenebrous change is a good thing for the state of pvp and the amount of QQing about it from the minority of you is just funny. And trust me you are in the minority.
I don't use Tenes lol, you simpleton. I have a dps Cleric, a TR and two GF's on top of my main Cleric, and none of them have Tenes. In fact my dps cleric guide is designed around not having tenes and doing better damage without them. This is how closeminded the people advocating for the Tene nerf are, you think that just because I'm here explaining why this nerf to Tenes is unnecessary, that I automatically have them. Nah, sorry bro, I don't.
And yes, you are a non-factor and will continue to be. Where is your guild and why don't they premade? Doing daily pvp and killing people in pubs means nothing. <Incoming excuses>
Edit: Stop talking about LS like you know us, all you know is hearsay.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
So I went and tested the CD of Tenes today. I did this a few months back but just to check its still the same, I went into TOB, and ACT teneb procs to see the CD on them, once they all proced (which was almsot always at the start of combat) I then tracked the CD to when they proced again. Did this ten times. Here are the results:
Test 1: 12 seconds
Test 2: 13 seconds
Test 3: 20 seconds
Test 4: 8 seconds (with the first proc of the second set at 6 seconds so arguably 6 seconds here)
Test 5: 12 seconds
Test 6: 11 seconds
Test 7: 3 seconds!
Test 8: 14 seconds
Test 9: 11 seconds
Test 10: 12 seconds.
Average: 11.6 seconds
So for those that want to NOW calculate the effective "DPS" in PVP do your math with 11.6 seconds on average between procs.
32000*.03*6= 5760/11.6 seconds = just shy of 500 DPS boost.
I also was considering swapping just 1 tene for R10 Dark for the nerf but here is the rough math.
an average damage of non crit encounters = 10-13k. R10 dark where I am at currently adds 3% damage boost.
13k *.03 = 390 on average. I have about 15% crit so very low chance itll add damage there.
So what does 1 tene at 80% hp give me? 768 damage. Deflected @ 50% = 384.
What does this mean?
Even if the tene gets deflected, itll STILL add as much damage as a R10 Dark on a typical encounter rotation.
Oh and the R10 dark only adds damage on 3 classes since im already just shy of 30% DR.
I guess when you're having trouble with something, its the games fault, not yours. Everyone in this thread that are happy for Tene nerfs are the same people that will complain about something else once Tenes are nerfed. The same people that can't afford or put in the time to get good gear/enchants. The competative landscape isnt going to change with this, the same people that are on top will remain on top. It's been nearly half a year since this game has been up, if you just joined then this isn't directed at you, but if you've been here for a while now and still complain, you simply to need to l2p or accept the fact that you're bad.
I think you should calm yourself a bit here princess. I've never complained about Tenebrous Enchants. Ever. In any form. As a matter of fact, I have never complained about one single aspect of this entire game...ever. Feel free to review my past posts.
Me saying I'm glad that Tenes will now take into affect defensive stats somehow means I need to l2p, and I'm bad? Fuzzy, stupid logic I'm afraid.
While talking about Tenebrous enchants, you speak of "Competitive Landscapes". Generally speaking Competition involves Skill. It takes no skill to activate, or use Tenebrous. They simply are,...rolling your face across the keyboard, button mashing, or having the most elite of skill isn't going to change them..they just are. So putting Competition and Tenebrous in the same sentence makes me lol.
It takes no skill to activate, or use Tenebrous. They simply are
What Enchants work differently than this? Oh thats right, none. Please point me to the offensive enchant you equip that takes skill to use. Btw, actually timing your Tene procs with your encounter rotation does take skill, rather than wasting them when you have everything on cooldown.
And if you think all it takes to win is getting Tenes and button mashing then once again, you don't know what you're talking about and simply need to l2p. We've held multiple competitions where everyone has identical gear/enchants. And we still win. Why? Because builds and skill matter in this game.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
What Enchants work differently than this? Oh thats right, none. Please point me to the offensive enchant you equip that takes skill to use. Btw, actually timing your Tene procs with your encounter rotation does take skill, rather than wasting them when you have everything on cooldown.
And if you think all it takes to win is getting Tenes and button mashing then once again, you don't know what you're talking about and simply need to l2p. We've held multiple competitions where everyone has identical gear/enchants. And we still win. Why? Because builds and skill matter in this game.
None of them actually.
Tenebrous ignore stats. That's why I'm happy they are changing them. If you don't understand this, I guess I got nothing for ya. Your own guildmates even agree they shouldn't ignore resistances.
I don't care if you have 50 greater tene's honestly. I just care they follow the same rules as everything else. Why you don't understand this, is beyond me.
You also really need to back up with your oh so uber l33t attitude your the best at everything. Your guilds bench is all of about 10 people deep, if that.
I've played against your members many matches since the merge. You boys are all of jack n <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> when you don't have 5 of your very specific, very small bench. The only TR I even remember from your guild is Kitty, the rest of them died so fast against my "l2p" TR I barely recognized the guild name.
You are making your guild look bad. Back up with your attitude. Its obvious you cannot have a normal conversation without trying to flame someone, and it makes you look stupid.
Greater Tenebrous enchants do not deserve to ignore resistances just because they were purchased with real $$. If you really believe that, your a sad little person and we will continue to laugh at you
as I said before. I am fine with tenes not ignoring soulforged or dodge.
but they need to work well how it will go through DR.
otherwise this nerf will be more of a buff for fighters classes than anything because they have high dr (clerics too will be even more tankiers than they are with it; plus, necrotic dmg for what i have seen and tested on lifedrinker and terror on preview server seemed to ignore most of target's dr than the others enchantments.
Also if i recall, the element dmgs from enchantments cannot be deflect, so i don't think it would be fair tenes to be deflected.
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
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faiteaccompliiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2
edited October 2013
Maybe a "I invested and lost my rear' title would be good then (for those who have lots of them!!) I myself have one, gave another way...no big thing but I do see the argument that if you buy keys to obtain something and it works one way and then it changes it is like buying a car only to have them arrive in the middle of the night and switch it out with a less powerful one!!
I really do respect all rules and mods and know your job is hard but not sure how closing down the discussion on how people feel about this is good, or maybe you just meant discussion of refunds?
I hope everyone figures it out, I am lucky that my DC does not really use them (she has one for kicks...really could use the slot more appropriately, it was more of an experiment)
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faiteaccompliiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2
edited October 2013
If the game was a subscription model there would be none of this, some of the stuff we buy in the game for empowering our characters can run hundreds of dollars, bad habit that it may be lol but the truth nonetheless and alienating those kinds of purchases for people being afraid it will be changed my not be great!! Just my thoughts from a business woman stand point maybe someone else has the 'other side' to present but business wise it can be a bad thing to change purchases after purchase. (as it will indeed discourage me from investing much into any one thing )
Having said ALL THIS I do agree it was OP Have been the victim of it many many times
I don't use Tenes lol, you simpleton. I have a dps Cleric, a TR and two GF's on top of my main Cleric, and none of them have Tenes. In fact my dps cleric guide is designed around not having tenes and doing better damage without them. This is how closeminded the people advocating for the Tene nerf are, you think that just because I'm here explaining why this nerf to Tenes is unnecessary, that I automatically have them. Nah, sorry bro, I don't.
And yes, you are a non-factor and will continue to be. Where is your guild and why don't they premade? Doing daily pvp and killing people in pubs means nothing. <Incoming excuses>
Edit: Stop talking about LS like you know us, all you know is hearsay.
I know you don't use them dipstick... but your guild does, especially your A-team. And I know people in your guild by the way. I know how the F you got your gear so it's not like I'm pulling <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of my <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> or using hearsay. How many times have your guildies been banned btw?
You used to be a humble and cool guy but you're tuned into quite the **** since joining LS.
I've played against your members many matches since the merge. You boys are all of jack n <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> when you don't have 5 of your very specific, very small bench. The only TR I even remember from your guild is Kitty, the rest of them died so fast against my "l2p" TR I barely recognized the guild name.
Lol 5 very specific? Are kidding me? We've played against EoA about 10 times now since the merge (to which you've lost all of them), I've only played in 2, maybe 3 of them. Everytime we've fought you we've had different players in each match. Buddy, you're not good enough to warrant us using a "very specific" A team. Are you really going to make me pull up screen shots and embarrass you here even further?
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
I know how the F you got your gear so it's not like I'm pulling <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of my <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> or using hearsay. How many times have your guildies been banned btw? You're tuned into quite the **** since joining LS.
Thanks for letting us all know what humble looks like. You're so bitter its sad, you have no idea how I acquired my gear and you don't even know who our A team is. If you did you would know that 3 of them have not even been playin since the server merge. Ignorance is bliss.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Thanks for letting us all know what humble looks like. You're so bitter its sad, you have no idea how I acquired my gear and you don't even know who our A team is. If you did you would know that 3 of them have not even been playin since the server merge. Ignorance is bliss.
And again I know you've lost several of your A-team already (I guess they got tired of being banned). Remember I have friends in your guild so I hear about the regular comings and going whether I care or not. Exactly why would I be bitter? I've simply stated how much of your guild acquired it's wealth and have responded to the incessant QQing of how unfair you think an appropriate nerf to a broken enchant is.
Again, you joined the guild later so I'm actually not talking about you with regards to the exploiting. I actually don't think that you exploited to get your gear because I've seen you with quite normal looking enchants as you've progressed. Others in your guild had the absolute best shortly after the game started when it wasn't humanly possible to get.
I'm sorry if I seem to be insulting what is apparently your biggest accomplishment in life. Again very sad.
So I went and tested the CD of Tenes today. I did this a few months back but just to check its still the same, I went into TOB, and ACT teneb procs to see the CD on them, once they all proced (which was almsot always at the start of combat) I then tracked the CD to when they proced again. Did this ten times. Here are the results:
Test 1: 12 seconds
Test 2: 13 seconds
Test 3: 20 seconds
Test 4: 8 seconds (with the first proc of the second set at 6 seconds so arguably 6 seconds here)
Test 5: 12 seconds
Test 6: 11 seconds
Test 7: 3 seconds!
Test 8: 14 seconds
Test 9: 11 seconds
Test 10: 12 seconds.
Average: 11.6 seconds
So for those that want to NOW calculate the effective "DPS" in PVP do your math with 11.6 seconds on average between procs.
32000*.03*6= 5760/11.6 seconds = just shy of 500 DPS boost.
I also was considering swapping just 1 tene for R10 Dark for the nerf but here is the rough math.
an average damage of non crit encounters = 10-13k. R10 dark where I am at currently adds 3% damage boost.
13k *.03 = 390 on average. I have about 15% crit so very low chance itll add damage there.
So what does 1 tene at 80% hp give me? 768 damage. Deflected @ 50% = 384.
What does this mean?
Even if the tene gets deflected, itll STILL add as much damage as a R10 Dark on a typical encounter rotation.
Oh and the R10 dark only adds damage on 3 classes since im already just shy of 30% DR.
time between first and last proc: 4 minutes and 10 secs, 6 tenebrous enchants, 81 total procs. average proc time = 18.52 seconds. Please post your log now and show where you are getting 11.6...
Edit: note that it's from first proc to last, my next proc could have been as much as 19 seconds away, in which case 269/81= 3.32*6 enchants = 19.93 seconds
You're also assuming you never crit and that you're always at full health in your math. No daily is factored in and the encounter damage you are considering is really low. Probably a GF or GWF, think about a TR or a CW, they can output that much non crit with one encounter...
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
To be honest, GCTRL, I have no idea why you're so against this Tenebrous nerf. You're in the best PVP guild on the server. Some little nerf to an enchant isn't going to compromise your standing. Clearly, y'all are the best and your skills aren't based on some enchant, right?
Comments
Honestly the difference between rank 5 enchants and rank 10s isn't nearly as big as the difference between those who have greater tenes and those who don't. Weapon enchants, armor enchants, and greater tenes are a much larger factor in pvp than regular enchants.
for instance, P Vorpal is an expensive enchantment, and most people don't want to spend money in the game because they think it is silly, or some just cannot afford it. So, analyzing this factor, should P vorpal be nerfed just like tenes?
If i run a build on my gwf with darks 8, 9. I will still Kill people. I will just kill a bit slower, without the burst tenes give. Personally, i like more tenes to finish off than anything. So if I fight people that cannot afford the darks 8,9 or P vorpal do you think they will not complain of find something else to do?
you know what is the problem of all that?
nerfing stuff like this only harms the game, because if you keep nerfing the game, the players who "support" the game and are good pvpers will eventually get tired of switching new builds and buying new enchantments, after all, it is money and I won't be wasting cash in a game so everytime what I buy will be nerfed because major part of the game population has no condition to afford for the same thing.
it is just wrong.
My way to fix it, a better way. Its just make new Q system crypt. Make fresh 60 play pvp with up 9k gs, and make 9k gs play with up 10k gs, and so on. and create a premade Q too.
because I am sure, if tenes become an useless enchantment, it is matter of time that people will come to forum complain about different stuff.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
You do know that Lesser and Normal Tenes exist, right? Lol. So by your logic there isnt a big gap between Lessers and Greaters right? So how about all the whiners get lessers or normals then, and then there will be nothing to complain about, right? Wrong. All that will happen is that people will continue to make excuses for their lack of success in PvP.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
I pvp daily regardless so you will continue to see me in matches. Let me flip I your statement and say that people like you will always look for a leg up on someone else rather than relying on skill.
Let me also say that it's not like I've made any other threads complaining about these obvious imbalances before, so I'm hardly a whiner like you're currently trying to paint me. I just think that a tenebrous change is a good thing for the state of pvp and the amount of QQing about it from the minority of you is just funny. And trust me you are in the minority.
They introduced few years ago a new class called Rage fighter. it pretty much "killed the pvp" of the game, because the class was all in ONE. DPS, TANK. and would kill everyone else so fast. and many ppl started create threads and threads asking for nerf the class.
The company didn't give a ****, and the game is still out there. and running.
However, me and a few friends who played a different class, something like a warrior. we tried different builds. and we found ways to make this new class just look <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and weak in PvP.
Soon all game started to copy us there, its just some ppl are not born to play pvp.
Eventually I quit the game there because the company started to make cash stuff too expensive, and in-game buffs that ppl started to buy for pvp.
and to walk "max" stuff, you would have to spend nearly 150 USD monthly, and besides already investing in gear, and leveling up (which is expensive, and veeeeeeeeery slow if you dont buy experience buffs, the game has 730 lvls). I quit. a lot of friends quit and we moved to different games and so I am here. Nerfing stuff is not solution as you guys see, people will always find a new way to rule pvp, keeping nerfing stuff that dont really needs nerf, or huge nerfs these stuff will only make people get tired of the game eventually, especially when it is about stuff people spent real money
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Lesser and normal tenebrous enchants aren't even worth the cost. You know this so stop being contrary. Fight for your crutches until your last breath. I'll continue to do well in pvp regardless of what happens. I just think that this is a positive step while you're obviously scared that it is going to negatively affect your teams ability to compete.
analyzing the thread here I would say that part that agrees with nerf of tenes, and part that disagrees are pretty close or even. I still think all that nerf is more of QQ of people who cant play pvp well.
this thing about relying on items more than skills, so is it the players fault if they can afford stuff and others not?
pvp is a combo of "items+skills". I know several players who have maxed stuff, g tenes and have no clue to what to do in PvP. it is just funny.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
I think you probably want to step away from the talk of who can afford these items and who can't especially with regards to the people in your guild (I dont think you want the dirty laundry of how enemy team started aired in this thread).
I know for a fact that I am a good pvper so that does not affect my stance on this topic.
Easy Tiger. I have a Greater Soulforge. I have no issue fighting against someone with a Perfect. I ran with a Greater Vorpal for a long, long time. I just got a Perfect. It's a slight difference, mainly against the tankier types, but no big deal. I have all Rank 8s. have no issue fighting people with Rank 10s. Why? The difference is minor? Rank 5s vs Rank 10s? Sure, that's a difference, but how easy is it to get Rank 7s? Not hard at all.
Now, since we're all "bad players" and you're all "good players," you clearly won't have an issue with lesser enchants, would you? Since you clearly have much more skill than other players, something like a little nerf won't hurt you at all, will it? Heck, maybe it'll even offer you a little challenge.
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Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
You may have spent money on the game but not everyone in your guild did to get their shiny new perfects and rank 10s. Same case with LS. And lol at the idea that you would need to spend $3k of real life money to be "competitive". Is that really what you consider competition?
Your guild and LS can have fun fighting each other since you're likely the only ones who can field players that have the same level of gear. I would personally get bored with that though.
as regarding of our people, and LS people. these stuff will be said in any mmo i guess. When I played D3, Mu online, cabal, i heard a lot of it too. For example, I was "1x1" one GWF other day, and he was complaining that I was probably a cheater because I interrupted his crescendo, or because his takedown didnt work, stuff like that.
or when I used spin stike and canceled with sprinting with steel defense for 5 sec immunity (thing I used a lot when i started to play). ppl called me hacker too. too bad they nerfed it and now spin uses way more AP:(, it was a fun gameplay.
people will always talk about other people.
I am sure everyone of my guild has the same condition I do, I know Sheep for example from years, and his char in that other game was even richer than mine. you look his videos you will see his chars in mu online, and diablo 3. all geared to the teeth. so if you guys got a complain, you can always report and let the company look for anything instead start spreading trashtalking from our previous guild who got broken heart when we decided to leave them. that is what I think. it is just funny that in my face, the old gm speak so nice, and on our backs i found out he was spreading stuff like that... good to see what kind of person he was after all. but anyway. hope i cleared up some of your thoughts. as for the some of LS you said, I am sure they are just like us, and invested time and money in the game. its kind of bad when you see people trashtalk like that for nothing in a forum when we were trying to have a healthy dicusion about tenes, but well.
yes, sometimes we get bored. but that is what i said earlier about competition, some players are more than others. and if we dont invest, someone will do and take all the crown. does it make sense? for some players that is how it works. its like in martial arts, some go there for fun, some go there to prove themselves and be competitive and fight hard... its just the way some people are. i do agree with you tho about it making boring and sometimes no fun. but i guess it will change if the devs ever bring a massive guild x guild content. like maybe 50 ppl x 50 ppl to rule/control a territory or something like it. each strongest guild only have about what, 5~8 people extermely geared? so it will be very fun if you see. because alone these 5, 8 players wont be able to do all by themselves, and the role of players who cant or dont want afford so much money will increase.
I am going out for lunch now, be back later to play some pvp. cya guys
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Have a nice lunch. When the information about how your guild got it's enchants comes from the mouth of one of your founding guildies, I can hardly consider that spreading lies. Anyway, I've said my peace in this thread. People can continue to argue back and forth about what should happen to tenes. In the end, the devs will do whatever they want.
I don't use Tenes lol, you simpleton. I have a dps Cleric, a TR and two GF's on top of my main Cleric, and none of them have Tenes. In fact my dps cleric guide is designed around not having tenes and doing better damage without them. This is how closeminded the people advocating for the Tene nerf are, you think that just because I'm here explaining why this nerf to Tenes is unnecessary, that I automatically have them. Nah, sorry bro, I don't.
And yes, you are a non-factor and will continue to be. Where is your guild and why don't they premade? Doing daily pvp and killing people in pubs means nothing. <Incoming excuses>
Edit: Stop talking about LS like you know us, all you know is hearsay.
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WTFproned's FUN MATH TIME! YAY!
So I went and tested the CD of Tenes today. I did this a few months back but just to check its still the same, I went into TOB, and ACT teneb procs to see the CD on them, once they all proced (which was almsot always at the start of combat) I then tracked the CD to when they proced again. Did this ten times. Here are the results:
Test 1: 12 seconds
Test 2: 13 seconds
Test 3: 20 seconds
Test 4: 8 seconds (with the first proc of the second set at 6 seconds so arguably 6 seconds here)
Test 5: 12 seconds
Test 6: 11 seconds
Test 7: 3 seconds!
Test 8: 14 seconds
Test 9: 11 seconds
Test 10: 12 seconds.
Average: 11.6 seconds
So for those that want to NOW calculate the effective "DPS" in PVP do your math with 11.6 seconds on average between procs.
32000*.03*6= 5760/11.6 seconds = just shy of 500 DPS boost.
I also was considering swapping just 1 tene for R10 Dark for the nerf but here is the rough math.
an average damage of non crit encounters = 10-13k. R10 dark where I am at currently adds 3% damage boost.
13k *.03 = 390 on average. I have about 15% crit so very low chance itll add damage there.
So what does 1 tene at 80% hp give me? 768 damage. Deflected @ 50% = 384.
What does this mean?
Even if the tene gets deflected, itll STILL add as much damage as a R10 Dark on a typical encounter rotation.
Oh and the R10 dark only adds damage on 3 classes since im already just shy of 30% DR.
Commence the QQ!
I think you should calm yourself a bit here princess. I've never complained about Tenebrous Enchants. Ever. In any form. As a matter of fact, I have never complained about one single aspect of this entire game...ever. Feel free to review my past posts.
Me saying I'm glad that Tenes will now take into affect defensive stats somehow means I need to l2p, and I'm bad? Fuzzy, stupid logic I'm afraid.
While talking about Tenebrous enchants, you speak of "Competitive Landscapes". Generally speaking Competition involves Skill. It takes no skill to activate, or use Tenebrous. They simply are,...rolling your face across the keyboard, button mashing, or having the most elite of skill isn't going to change them..they just are. So putting Competition and Tenebrous in the same sentence makes me lol.
What Enchants work differently than this? Oh thats right, none. Please point me to the offensive enchant you equip that takes skill to use. Btw, actually timing your Tene procs with your encounter rotation does take skill, rather than wasting them when you have everything on cooldown.
And if you think all it takes to win is getting Tenes and button mashing then once again, you don't know what you're talking about and simply need to l2p. We've held multiple competitions where everyone has identical gear/enchants. And we still win. Why? Because builds and skill matter in this game.
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None of them actually.
Tenebrous ignore stats. That's why I'm happy they are changing them. If you don't understand this, I guess I got nothing for ya. Your own guildmates even agree they shouldn't ignore resistances.
I don't care if you have 50 greater tene's honestly. I just care they follow the same rules as everything else. Why you don't understand this, is beyond me.
You also really need to back up with your oh so uber l33t attitude your the best at everything. Your guilds bench is all of about 10 people deep, if that.
I've played against your members many matches since the merge. You boys are all of jack n <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> when you don't have 5 of your very specific, very small bench. The only TR I even remember from your guild is Kitty, the rest of them died so fast against my "l2p" TR I barely recognized the guild name.
You are making your guild look bad. Back up with your attitude. Its obvious you cannot have a normal conversation without trying to flame someone, and it makes you look stupid.
Greater Tenebrous enchants do not deserve to ignore resistances just because they were purchased with real $$. If you really believe that, your a sad little person and we will continue to laugh at you
but they need to work well how it will go through DR.
otherwise this nerf will be more of a buff for fighters classes than anything because they have high dr (clerics too will be even more tankiers than they are with it; plus, necrotic dmg for what i have seen and tested on lifedrinker and terror on preview server seemed to ignore most of target's dr than the others enchantments.
Also if i recall, the element dmgs from enchantments cannot be deflect, so i don't think it would be fair tenes to be deflected.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
I really do respect all rules and mods and know your job is hard but not sure how closing down the discussion on how people feel about this is good, or maybe you just meant discussion of refunds?
I hope everyone figures it out, I am lucky that my DC does not really use them (she has one for kicks...really could use the slot more appropriately, it was more of an experiment)
Having said ALL THIS I do agree it was OP
I know you don't use them dipstick... but your guild does, especially your A-team. And I know people in your guild by the way. I know how the F you got your gear so it's not like I'm pulling <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of my <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> or using hearsay. How many times have your guildies been banned btw?
You used to be a humble and cool guy but you're tuned into quite the **** since joining LS.
Lol 5 very specific? Are kidding me? We've played against EoA about 10 times now since the merge (to which you've lost all of them), I've only played in 2, maybe 3 of them. Everytime we've fought you we've had different players in each match. Buddy, you're not good enough to warrant us using a "very specific" A team. Are you really going to make me pull up screen shots and embarrass you here even further?
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Thanks for letting us all know what humble looks like. You're so bitter its sad, you have no idea how I acquired my gear and you don't even know who our A team is. If you did you would know that 3 of them have not even been playin since the server merge. Ignorance is bliss.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
And again I know you've lost several of your A-team already (I guess they got tired of being banned). Remember I have friends in your guild so I hear about the regular comings and going whether I care or not. Exactly why would I be bitter? I've simply stated how much of your guild acquired it's wealth and have responded to the incessant QQing of how unfair you think an appropriate nerf to a broken enchant is.
Again, you joined the guild later so I'm actually not talking about you with regards to the exploiting. I actually don't think that you exploited to get your gear because I've seen you with quite normal looking enchants as you've progressed. Others in your guild had the absolute best shortly after the game started when it wasn't humanly possible to get.
I'm sorry if I seem to be insulting what is apparently your biggest accomplishment in life. Again very sad.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkwmvHM5CMTodEZlUlRTTzI3T0V4Y1pibEh3N2p0aUE&usp=sharing
time between first and last proc: 4 minutes and 10 secs, 6 tenebrous enchants, 81 total procs. average proc time = 18.52 seconds. Please post your log now and show where you are getting 11.6...
Edit: note that it's from first proc to last, my next proc could have been as much as 19 seconds away, in which case 269/81= 3.32*6 enchants = 19.93 seconds
You're also assuming you never crit and that you're always at full health in your math. No daily is factored in and the encounter damage you are considering is really low. Probably a GF or GWF, think about a TR or a CW, they can output that much non crit with one encounter...
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
You sure will not even put a scratch on anyone with all these defensive stats as a TR. That's some weird stats you got there