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How To Guide on how to Deal with Tenes
venomous10
Member Posts: 33 Arc User
Hello All, My name is Steroidz and I am one of the leaders of <Lemonade Stand> (32k hp GF 6 tenes 800 regen soulforge bronzewood) and this is the way to DEAL with tenebrous enchants.
Stacking 5-7 tenes (which is roughly 5-7k dmg or 20-30% of ur hp) is equivalent to having an extra strong encounter every 20 secs. so its almost like you have 4 encounters to your non tene counterparts 3. Take that as you will.
The way to counter tenes is to stack CON(viable on every class) and HP (gwfs should be at 35kish gfs 32k ish rogues 28k cws 28k dcs 30k MINIMUMS)as well as regen and Barkshield. All classes should and can stack regen to the tune of 800-1000 minimum. That is nearly 1000 health per regen tick at sub 50% hp. staying alive for 12 seconds in this case is equivalent to 3-4 tene procs. Barkshield also absorbs the initial burst of tenes making them useless for the first 20 seconds of combat.
The way to balance tenes (talking to you devs!) would be to augment the effectiveness of power/armorpen/crit/recovery/defense/deflect/etc and change the diminishing return % and stat value. Id guess that tenes are equivalent to rank 10s if not better. so make rank 10s better. make the armor pen diminishing return 2500 not 2200. make crit scale to 55% before hitting HEAVY stat diminishing returns. scale power better across the board. scale deflect/def/life leech/etc better.
With all this said I combat all classes with perfects and 5-7 greater tenes everyday and never view opponents with tenes to be unbalanced. (believe it or not) The game gives you the tools to combat tenes but its not easy.
Stacking 5-7 tenes (which is roughly 5-7k dmg or 20-30% of ur hp) is equivalent to having an extra strong encounter every 20 secs. so its almost like you have 4 encounters to your non tene counterparts 3. Take that as you will.
The way to counter tenes is to stack CON(viable on every class) and HP (gwfs should be at 35kish gfs 32k ish rogues 28k cws 28k dcs 30k MINIMUMS)as well as regen and Barkshield. All classes should and can stack regen to the tune of 800-1000 minimum. That is nearly 1000 health per regen tick at sub 50% hp. staying alive for 12 seconds in this case is equivalent to 3-4 tene procs. Barkshield also absorbs the initial burst of tenes making them useless for the first 20 seconds of combat.
The way to balance tenes (talking to you devs!) would be to augment the effectiveness of power/armorpen/crit/recovery/defense/deflect/etc and change the diminishing return % and stat value. Id guess that tenes are equivalent to rank 10s if not better. so make rank 10s better. make the armor pen diminishing return 2500 not 2200. make crit scale to 55% before hitting HEAVY stat diminishing returns. scale power better across the board. scale deflect/def/life leech/etc better.
With all this said I combat all classes with perfects and 5-7 greater tenes everyday and never view opponents with tenes to be unbalanced. (believe it or not) The game gives you the tools to combat tenes but its not easy.
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in a 1v1 and 5v5 setting
Don't forget, though, they would then also have to increase the difficulty on end game content to keep up with the overall increase in player power.
Serious PvP players already stack HP/CON/Deflect/regen. That by itself does not help them one iota against a whole group of full geared G.Tene players.
Note. I do not care one way or other about the presence of Tenebrous in the game. I am just countering your strange arguments.
ACtually I have posted about this in two threads.
OPTION 1)
Tene enchant does % of weapon base as necrotic damage, much like lifedrinker, like Terror etc... Its all based on WEAPON damage.
Lesser = 4.4%
Normal = 6.1%
Greater= 7%
Same numbers as lifedrinker, except this just does damage... Stackable so TWO GTEs would just do 14% NOT TWO different 7%s... You could also stack this with other sources of necro LIKE LD or Terror....
OPTION 2)
STEP 1) Bring the CD BACK to about the 8 second range and make that a HARD 8 second CD NOT A server side CD.
STEP 2) Make tene enchants NO LONGER based on CURRENT HP, but BASE (PRE BUFFED) HP. MY guardian fighter has something like 25k HP unbuffed via talents/feats/enchants/gear. So THIS would be the number it is now based on, not his CURRENT HP pool of 32k.
STEEP 3) ONLY allow 1 tene to PROC at once AND tene should NOT be able to proc off DoTs. This means that ONLY at will/encounters will proc tene enchants.
Tenes were implemented so poorly.
Sadly I think your right.
Yup, +1 to all of this
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
I tip my hat to you sir.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
Hate to say it but you hit the nail on the head with why the devs will probably never balance tenebrous enchantments. Players spend money/AD to get keys and players spend money/AD or invoke to get coalescent wards. The logical and simplest thing the devs can do is to make them not stack but it will not happen. It was thought that tenebrous enchantments would become rarer with the nightmare boxes being gone but the feywild boxes are already going to be removed. It is possible the devs will bring back the nightmare boxes or might have a similar enchantment in the new boxes.
The trick is surviving long enough to injure the tenebrous user to decrease the amount of damage. Stacking CON, REGEN, and using Barkshield will work but you sacrifice to do it. Sacrificing power/crit/armor penetration doesn't matter if you survive long enough to deal with the tenebrous user. It does matter if you still end up dying.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
Outlined below.
People have aquired 7 of the greaters with a market value of what 15mil+
So your gonna <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> off the people who have just PROVEN to cryptic they are willing to spend money on the game AND/OR play the game a TON to get these legit....
The 4 pc nerf is not the same...
You can get armor drops from PVE, you can easily replace armor (a full set at that) for 1-2mil easy... GTEs ARE OP and the reason is:
Your taking an offensive enchant and having it scale with defensive stats... AKA...
THE MORE HP/REGEN you have the more tene will deal in damage....
Plus, having 1 of them doesnt really do anything... so itll make the enchant worthless....
The other issue is they came in lockboxes that people HAD to pay real money for... Armor can be farmed in game with NO ad spent.... Even if you farmed GTEs SOMEBODY had to spend real $ to open that box... Hence why they wont ever completely remove or nerf them to the ground...
Another simple solution is have it scale off offensive characteristics, like weapon damage, power stat ETC... But it needs to not scale off HP.... If it HAS to, then it needs to be something that cant be modified by stacking MORE HP/regen, like BASE HP. Then its fair across the board across every spec...
I do like how people get bone run with it around here for dps Gtene is less than rank 8s most gwf builds and gf builds don't even use g tene now.
GWF pvp t1 set for healing and you have to offset this with def and dodge enchantments to be healing machine no Gtene
Gf runs just good in pvp with rank 8-10 arp enchantments with prone lock so g tene also no big.
I don't know about most severs but mine g tene like 3 mill + a lot easier to get rank 8s and cheaper
a lot people think because they lose fight they need some thing to blame and kind of getting daft now nerf this nerf that even seen people say Gtene are op in pve where there not because there dps is well to low for there cost burst is nice on right build but there not the auto win item and a lot builds don't even use them now because they cost well to much.
Thats part of my point though is any tene is horrible DPS because of the 20 sec serverside CD. Its just horrible DPS, thats not a baring though on pvp because pvp is all about burst damage.
So while even R7s will out DPS tenes, in pvp they wont. Tene is a hands down winner because of the necrotic burst.
Im not coming here because I lost a fight, actually the contrary, im coming because i have tene and use them in pvp and they are broken.
there many things much more broken than g tene in pvp as is also don't know what class you are but there many builds that can beat Gtene builds because your losing 7 offensive slots if you can not burst person down in under 20 sec there doing more dps than you and I find most people you can burst down are in gear not as good as yours.
very small % of people are rocking 5+g tene and I would say there in top 2% if not top 1% of best geared people on sever when your fighting premade in rank 8-10 with Gtene there is no auto win at all its all ways a fight.
when you fight pugs with premade with rank 8-10s there is no fight its chicken clubbing just like when premade mades using Gtene.
so what I am saying not G tene or rank 8-10 that's issue its match making system and gear differences.
if you want real over powered tene counter try greater or perfect barskin now that enchantment is over powered.
Cryptic could care less about the whole who spent what. Changing stalwarts costs alot of players alot of money.
I see your point about them not being useful.. but everything thats useful in this game is balanced to be not all that useful. Thats what players are complaining about.. its too useful.
Personally i dont think anything in this game is overpowered, I wish more stuff/feats/races/classes were... This balance <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>..
Agreed, probably not that good of a solution, yet right down cryptics alley.
You have 37k HP ...that means your tenebrous would deal~ 7770k Damage.
We have here a greater barkshield ( easy to get, just farm Sharandar mini dungeons)
Greater Barkshield: Every 8 seconds you armor receives a charge of Bolstered Bark up to a maximum of 3 charges. When you have one charge of Bolstered Bark your armors absorbs 648 damage. When you have two charges of Bolstered Bark your armors absorbs 1296 damage. When you have three charges of Bolstered Bark your armors absorbs 1944 damage. Whenever you take damage one charge of Bolstered Bark is consumed.
So that means, at the start of the fight i'm going to have 3 stacks. That means that i'm going to cancel 1944 damage from your first hit and i would have 2 stacks left. That means your next hit would be 1296 damage less...then at 3rd hit... you would give me 648 damage less. Making a total of 648+ 1296+1944 = 3888 damage canceled.
So your tenebrous gives me 7770 damage + lets say 4000 damage from your encounter gives i a total of 11770.
With my 3 stacks, i would reduce your tene burst from 7770 to 5826 from first shield stack . Then further more reducing your 4000 to 2704 damage from the 2nd stack. And i would still have 1 more stack left reducing your next damage by 648 damage. Making the total damage loss to 8530 instead of 11770. That's 27.5% damage loss from the barkshield only.
Please note that i didn't take regeneration , defense nor deflection in consideration. Which would actually reduce the calculated damage further more ( except for tenebrous one, as it is necrotic).
Now lets see, if i'm constantly getting hit i will get always only 1 stack every 8 seconds, which means every hit you land, i'm going to cancel 648 damage of it . That, with some defense, deflection and regeneration ( easy to get on all classes), the tenebrous burst wont be a problem anymore.
I don't think you know how barkshield works against tenes, let me break it down how ridiculously good it is and you will see:
lets say my 7 tenes hit for 900 each
2 stacks of greater: 1296
when I hit you, since you have 1296(absorb) > 900 it blocks ALL OF THEM.
Let me make it clearer: if you have 2 stacks of bark and you get hit by 5 people AT ONCE (all with 7 tenes), you will BLOCK ALL OF IT, essentially blocking (900x7)x5 = 31,500 burst dmg.
Now barkshield isn't good for all classes, since you actually need to build stacks by staying out of combat, but we found that it synergizes very well since some classes are always last priority and the ones that aren't have other tools and don't need it. there's also an ridiculously easy way to combat it but you wanted a how to combat tene, here you go.
Thanks for elaboration. So it calculates based on the base damage of one tenebrous itself, not on the result damage of the 7 tenes together. That's interesting.
still tens need to be fixed, well nerf to be exact.
If u are well geared and often do high lvl premade true tens are not op, but for the rest it is just a broken existence.
Will it make some people mad ? yes
Will it make proportionately more people happy ? yes
Tanks should tank and dps should dps, it should not be possible to do both at the same time! I can't for the life of me figure out why cryptic/pwe have let these shenanigans go on as long as they have.. . oh wait it's the money isn't it
1- Tenebrous gives you a burst every 20 seconds, it isn't a consistent damage, it isn't a DPS. it is a damage every 20 seconds.
2- Barkshield can be farmed from master of the hunt skirmish....so i don't understand what is expensive here...they are cheaper than a soulforged.
Unfortunately, competitive lvl 60 PvP isn't a place for a guy who just turned 60 nor for PvE spec'd players. If you want to excel in PvP lvl 60, you have to farm and spend time to get BiS for PvP depending on your character. Tenebrous isn't easy to get and neither should be what counters it, if everything was easy to get like T2 sets, then game would be even more boring ( take note that the complaining about T2 sets is too hard to get is still on going).
Bottom line:
There will always be whiners no matter what.
1) It should not be a suppliment dps on the scale it currently is as once every 20 seconds is more then enough for a tank (which is really the only character that should be getting a noticeable bonus from it)
2) We are still talking millions of ad here (im on dragon serv btw) as for the drop, ive run MoTH about 20ish times all up and only got 2 shards so screw that noise.
Bottom Line:
Tank specced players should not be able to do dps on the scale this enhancement enables them too, which is what the main topic of the thread, sure we have varying opinions on how to go about it, along with blatant vested interests. Attempting to suggest that this is anything other then an imbalanced item or to summarize your post -grind your *** off to counter the imbalance, is sheer lunacy.
don't get me wrong, the enchant ****s on every other offensive enchant, but this is cryptic and since they never address pvp why would they address a pvp oriented enchant? this is a thread on how to combat it not a nerf it request, there is alot of information here to make you see you can easily nullify the effect of it. heck we have players in our guild rocking rank 8/9s with no tenes and their damage is INSANE with the right weapon enchants and feats, trust me you haven't seen the scariest builds yet, I feel tenes hold alot of people back.
also the reason people don't sell barkshield on the AH is because the 1st one you get is bound on pickup, so when you add more shards to the stack it all looks like BOP, only few know you can actually split the stacks and get rid of the BOP one.
I made your same calculations and that's why i decided to go after barkshield and not soulforged.
That said... Greater is easy to get? Barkshield shards drop rarely from MoH skirmish as long as i know. You need 4 for a lesser, 16 for a normal, 64 for a Greater. Then, you need coalescent wards. 17 in total (4 for each normal, 1 to fuse the 4 normal into 1 Greater). In Dragon server they come at 100k AD each right now. Which means you need 1.7 mil AD and to farm the Barkshield shards.
I wouldn't call it easy... May be you know a easier way to get coalescent wards or Barkshield shards...
Judging how some of these people have Perfects in Multiple weapons and Armors and tons of rank 10's on multiple characters...
Yeah, They know something