Enough? What for? This number actually provide how ineffective a TR will be, specially if you are comparing it to the other classes. 68.2% of astronomical is not darn good. Considering that you are not counting the change to At-will powers depleting Stealth, we are going into the sub-par ctegory.
Nerfing THE ONLY THING THAT TR EXCELS AT will actually make them SUB-PAR.
I guess you are a PVPer reading your last sentence. Guess what? I don't care about PVP. This kills TR both for PVP AND PVE, the MAIN FOCUS of this game.
It certainly seems to be a significant nerf.
However, if the TR is still by a decent margin the best single-target damage dealer (which even with the nerf it should still be I think) then it isn't likely to change the standard dungeon party composition of DC, CW, TR + 2 others...
75% crit severity is still too low. A 90% Critical severity starts to be a good point.
As I said, I suggest either to lower the damage bonus to 15/30/45% or upgrade the Critical severity to 30/60/90%.
Yeah but they don't want a good point. They want to nerf the skill. a 75% CS is still a nerf, but its a smaller step down. Small steps is what responsible devs do.
Yeah but they don't want a good point. They want to nerf the skill. a 75% CS is still a nerf, but its a smaller step down. Small steps is what responsible devs do.
Changes made to any class needs to be done in a subtle way, testing each change made on the ptr to make sure the changes being implemented are not going to cripple the class. Just from what I've read it doesn't seem like these changes made to the Tr are game breaking, but rather necessary to balance the class.
The Developers with their internal testing must have concluded that the nerfs needed to bring the Tr class inline with other classes needed to be this severe. I am sure that once players have had a chance to test these changes on the ptr and voiced their Opinions on the changes Cryptic will make the necessary corrections where needed.
First off: I don't PvP much with my TR. Mostly just run foundry missions with it. My CW and GWF can run them faster, but I kind of liked running them with a TR.
I will check it out. But I can already see I don't need to test it to see how it'll destroy my TR build: At wills lowering stealth bar. Cloud of steel with less charges. Lurker's Assault switching to a crit damage bonus instead of pure damage. I can respec and try a new build, sure. But its still a pita. And it probably won't play the same as the character I was having fun with.
Its just another example of a PvP change ruining PvE. That's my Opinion on this mess.
Halgarth's Legacy-NWS-DSTGFZHFR
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raddatackMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
This game does NOT revolve around PvP. You are completely ignoring the fact that this change will probably make rogues less effective in PvE, thus making boss fights harder and more tedious, reducing the enjoyment for everyone else.
I'm getting sick and tired of changes in the name of PvP "balance" which hurt the PvE aspects, which to me are what this game is really about.
Generally I wouldn't side with the not nerfing the rouges but i completely agree with you. They are a pain in pvp but not enough to nerf them.
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raddatackMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
Stop with the nerf you idiots. A lot of people are bringing up good points. Nerfing the rouge is going to ruining the whole game. PvE will be so much harder in dungeons all because people whine about rouges in pvp. I play GWF and Wizard and i dont want this to happen. By doing this you're ruining the game.
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keobiaaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
If by "ruin the entire game" you mean, "ruin nothing at all" then sure.
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raddatackMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
This isn't a nerf it was a adjustment to fix a broken class and was needed. I am soo soo happy and couldn't agree more. These are some of the changes many of the players have been wanting and can now enjoy the game better. I couldn't fall asleep last night when I found out the great changes to the TR I went immediately to my guild to spread the great word and rejoice. This was the most broke thing in the game and is getting fixed so this brings some excitement with the upcoming patch. With these adjustments rogues forget they still have 345,678,934,567 skills that are still great most classes have 1-3 skill that are good. Even with these changes they are still OP and could use some more adjustment but ill take this one and enjoy that this cheesy class now will stop ruining the game. Maybe more player will come to this game now that its moving in the right direction. A huge win for the players!!
You're an idiot. Nerfing the rouge will completely ruining pve also. Rouges are the main reason that dungeons get cleared. And don't think im saying this because i play rouge because i dont i play gwf.
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raddatackMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
pve damage got reduced by around 80%...have fun dying in dungeons over and over just cause the class design to kill bosses cant do that
Awesome, now I have a legit reason to bail on the group when I get bored. Can't kill it fast enough, but still die quick myself I might as well just leave to all those unskilled, lack ability to create actual meaningful content by the developers called add blobs of minions and high damage boss attacks on short recharge because its easier to make the player weaker then develop harder content without falling back on the same bag of tricks for every boss.
Stop with the nerf you idiots. A lot of people are bringing up good points. Nerfing the rouge is going
And TRs wonder why every other class considers them to consist of illiterate unskilled FOTM players...
Seriously, if you want there to be the slightest chance of the Devs taking your post seriously, please try to spell your class name correctly. It is not as if is that long.....
omg all the times I said the devs WERE'NT listening I sincerely apologize. I love this new class balance. Now the only people complaining are the no skill tards that like to sit in stealth and dagger people to death BUT now you actually have to play the character instead of relying on perm stealth and your 100 daze/stun skills to 2 hit people. And how does making at will deplete stealth nerf pve? When bosses and most adds can still see u?:p
Queen of Dragon Server
Goddess Uniique, lvl 60 DC.
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
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ladymythosMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 637Bounty Hunter
Because the more the better. The company needs to know that the nerf is stupid.
People who complain about nerfing always seem to think the game is perfect at launch. They are wrong. The only way to make the game last is to keep improving it, and one way they do it is by constantly monitor every class and make sure they stay balanced. If one skill is too strong, make it weaker. If one skill is too weak, make it stronger. Yes, it will upset some fans when they improve classes like this, and especially when a class get a lot of small changes all at once. But all in all, it's the best thing they can do. Right now the TR is too powerfuil and too easy to play. The GWF takes skill (especially in solo) to stay alive, and a DC-player needs to know not only what all the skills he/she use does, but also what they does when the player press Tab. A heal-over-time becomes insta-heal, for instance. This is vital in harder areas and dungeons to stay alive.
But the TR? Easy-mode. Just throw daggers at enemies from a distance, wack them with an AoE-skill when they get close and roll away. Then repeat until every enemy is dead. Group mechani? Hit stuff until it dies. That's it. They don't require any kind of skill to play. Nerfing them can hopefully make them more varied, and thus, a lot more fun to play. If you can't deal with it, maybe you should go back to WoW or something.
omg all the times I said the devs WERE'NT listening I sincerely apologize. I love this new class balance. Now the only people complaining are the no skill tards that like to sit in stealth and dagger people to death BUT now you actually have to play the character instead of relying on perm stealth and your 100 daze/stun skills to 2 hit people. And how does making at will deplete stealth nerf pve? When bosses and most adds can still see u?:p
I can already tell that I will still be able to one-shot someone as simple as you even with these drastic nerfs that affect FAR MORE than just pvp.
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raddatackMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
And TRs wonder why every other class considers them to consist of illiterate unskilled FOTM players...
Seriously, if you want there to be the slightest chance of the Devs taking your post seriously, please try to spell your class name correctly. It is not as if is that long.....
I don't even play TR. I play GWF
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ladymythosMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 637Bounty Hunter
Changes ==> Irresponsible, lack of vision, performing surgery when a band-aid would suffice, did I say irresponsible yet?
Congrats, sir. This is the dumbest thing I've heard all month, and I was on the Marvel Heroes-forum. Changes, as in balancing, helps the game improve and players have a lot more fun.
But know what? Screw this, Let's wait with the discussion until the next class gets nerfed, and we get the whole thing all over again. The fifty threads about how bad the TR nerfs are, are guaranteed to return. Just replace TR with the clas that gets nerfed next time. Or the one after that. People never learn... sigh... I honestly don't know why I bother with this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> sometimes.
And how does making at will deplete stealth nerf pve? When bosses and most adds can still see u?:p
So all those times you were in dungeons with rogues and got carried lets see... On boss fights we were able to go into stealth, pop lurkers, and begin duelists flurry for significant burst DPS (lol you can't be carried in fights like Spider anymore) So more specifically with at wills and duelists flurry we are no longer going to be able to start DF, go into stealth as the animation starts and finish with 100% critical chance of Lashing Blade. That is HUGE when you look at rotations. Not to mention the nerfs to DF yet again. So yeah do you understand even just a little of what this means?>
Congrats, sir. This is the dumbest thing I've heard all month, and I was on the Marvel Heroes-forum. Changes, as in balancing, helps the game improve and players have a lot more fun.
But know what? Screw this, Let's wait with the discussion until the next class gets nerfed, and we get the whole thing all over again. The fifty threads about how bad the TR nerfs are, are guaranteed to return. Just replace TR with the clas that gets nerfed next time. Or the one after that. People never learn... sigh... I honestly don't know why I bother with this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> sometimes.
I don't understand why you bother either. Why is it so hard for women to accept that they are wrong?
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ladymythosMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 637Bounty Hunter
Comments
No need to test when you have Math.
You probably didn't even bother to read the thread. "So sick of ppl QQing before they even read the threads!"
It certainly seems to be a significant nerf.
However, if the TR is still by a decent margin the best single-target damage dealer (which even with the nerf it should still be I think) then it isn't likely to change the standard dungeon party composition of DC, CW, TR + 2 others...
Yeah but they don't want a good point. They want to nerf the skill. a 75% CS is still a nerf, but its a smaller step down. Small steps is what responsible devs do.
With 75% CS:
1000 damage, 50% Crit chance, 150% crit severity (75 base + 75 LA)
In 10 hits: 1000 * 5 + (1000 + 1000*150/100)*5 = 17500
17500 against the 15000 we would be seeing with 15%
90% Crit severity brings it to 18250. It would still be down from 22000 to 18250, a MUCH more reasonable number than 15000 or even 17500.
First off: I don't PvP much with my TR. Mostly just run foundry missions with it. My CW and GWF can run them faster, but I kind of liked running them with a TR.
I will check it out. But I can already see I don't need to test it to see how it'll destroy my TR build: At wills lowering stealth bar. Cloud of steel with less charges. Lurker's Assault switching to a crit damage bonus instead of pure damage. I can respec and try a new build, sure. But its still a pita. And it probably won't play the same as the character I was having fun with.
Its just another example of a PvP change ruining PvE. That's my Opinion on this mess.
You're an idiot. Nerfing the rouge will completely ruining pve also. Rouges are the main reason that dungeons get cleared. And don't think im saying this because i play rouge because i dont i play gwf.
It wont ruin the game much but it will mess pve up a good amount.
Changes ==> Irresponsible, lack of vision, performing surgery when a band-aid would suffice, did I say irresponsible yet?
And TRs wonder why every other class considers them to consist of illiterate unskilled FOTM players...
Seriously, if you want there to be the slightest chance of the Devs taking your post seriously, please try to spell your class name correctly. It is not as if is that long.....
Devs don't decide what they code.
The biggest mistake Cryptic is doing is listening to PVP whiners. I hope it will soon stop, starting from this upcoming patch.
Developers decide what gets coded. As in they "develop" the game.
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger
There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
But the TR? Easy-mode. Just throw daggers at enemies from a distance, wack them with an AoE-skill when they get close and roll away. Then repeat until every enemy is dead. Group mechani? Hit stuff until it dies. That's it. They don't require any kind of skill to play. Nerfing them can hopefully make them more varied, and thus, a lot more fun to play. If you can't deal with it, maybe you should go back to WoW or something.
I can already tell that I will still be able to one-shot someone as simple as you even with these drastic nerfs that affect FAR MORE than just pvp.
I don't even play TR. I play GWF
Because the fact that they're nerfing them is stupid.
But know what? Screw this, Let's wait with the discussion until the next class gets nerfed, and we get the whole thing all over again. The fifty threads about how bad the TR nerfs are, are guaranteed to return. Just replace TR with the clas that gets nerfed next time. Or the one after that. People never learn... sigh... I honestly don't know why I bother with this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> sometimes.
So all those times you were in dungeons with rogues and got carried lets see... On boss fights we were able to go into stealth, pop lurkers, and begin duelists flurry for significant burst DPS (lol you can't be carried in fights like Spider anymore) So more specifically with at wills and duelists flurry we are no longer going to be able to start DF, go into stealth as the animation starts and finish with 100% critical chance of Lashing Blade. That is HUGE when you look at rotations. Not to mention the nerfs to DF yet again. So yeah do you understand even just a little of what this means?>
So basically you are trying to get the TR nerfed again. Okay.....
I don't understand why you bother either. Why is it so hard for women to accept that they are wrong?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y3FzVQi-R8