TRs have lost a good 50% of their damage counting this nerf only. Let's put togheter the "At-will powers will now deplete stealth" and we are reaching a good 60% DPS LOSS.
It isn't a 50% loss of dps since lurkers isn't always up.
It is still a pretty big change, I don't have the exact numbers and couldn't be arsed to come up with them. Just trying to keep thigns accurate. Lurkers isn't 100% uptime, rogues take awhile to build AP, I would say at most it's a 25% dps loss, which is pretty big. Probably more along the lines of 15-20% though.
Unfortunately, physical proof > theorycrafting. So until then, all numbers are just theorycrafting and can be ignored by anyone, even they may be theoretically true.
And if the nerf is really unfavorable, there is a (very,very,very small) chance it will not make it to live.
Ultimately this is the only way to be certain.
It does appears that the nerf might be in the order of 30% (not 80% as a certain hysterical TR fanboyz was screaming), perhaps more given the other changes, but we really need to see a comparison for a couple of common builds on live and PTR.
If the nerfs are significant enough and there is clear proof of this, then the Devs might reconsider some of the changes.
It does appears that the nerf might be in the order of 30% (not 80% as a certain hysterical TR fanboyz was screaming), perhaps more given the other changes, but we really need to see a comparison for a couple of common builds on live and PTR.
If the nerfs are significant enough and there is clear proof of this, then the Devs might reconsider some of the changes.
It is best not to even throw any number at this point. All we can agree on is that it is indeed a big situational nerf to TR.
"Lucky" is the new FOTM.
0
senseijohnMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 90
edited July 2013
And this is my que to get the heck out of Dodge.
It's painfully obvious that the developers have no clue what they are doing. It's also equally clear most of the players have no clue what they are doing.
Sadly... I already purchased the Fey pack, so I'm out that money, but there is NO reason to support a bunch of bumbling fools who cave to the masses' whim. That's lazy... sloppy... and ultimately self destructive.
I've been playing MMO's since the BEGINNING. And I mean that... the VERY beginning (yes, I am old). I've seen good, I've seen bad and I've seen ugly. Sadly... this game has gotten ugly for one main reason:
Lack of vision - there is no clear vision for the classes, the game or pretty much anything else. If there was, they wouldn't be so wishy washy with classes. The fact is, the vision has already been set out in front of them by D&D 4th edition. They've ignored it by listening to the masses scream for a witch hunt.
The fact is, with the traditional classes, there WILL NEVER BE BALANCE IN PVP and PVE simultaneously. I know... I've also been playing D&D since the beginning. There are certain areas where each class excels. Rogues have traditionally (since 1st edition backstab) been the masters of striking vulnerable spots and doing tons of damage. Fighters have traditionally been good melee damagers with the ability to soak up damage. Clerics have always been the healers and wizards have traditionally been the glass cannons who usually do tons of damage to large groups (fireball, ice storm, etc).
All classes had certain utility to balance out other abilities... rogues (originally thief class) could climb, pick pockets, move silently, hide in shadows and most importantly... disarm traps. That utility is GONE. Traps are meaningless jokes in this and every game that's tried to implement them, all the way back to the original EQ. That's one of rogues most basic and useful skills. In the original game, even if the rogue sat out on combat, you STILL wanted him because a single trap could kill the entire party, destroy loot - the good ole acid trapped chest comes to mind - and more... That functionality is GONE. NON-EXISTANT. VOID. NADA. Etc. in MMO's.
And to a certain degree, I understand. After all... you want EVERYONE to have fun. And in doing so, no one really has fun.... or at least, not as much fun as they could.
So, you take away one of the rogue's PRIMARY roles in D&D. What does he get in return. Well... he gets to do a tons of damage... to a single target.
Hmm... so... how does that work? Well... it works well... in PVE. The problem is PVP... when you have a class whose primary ability is to do lots of damage to a single target and then he does that to a single target who is another player, that person gets upset. After all... their role... healing, AoE or sucking up damage has worked well in PVE and well in PVP against similar classes.
Then they whine... complain and stomp their feet because a class is performing AS IT SHOULD. All because a certain class excels in a certain situation - which unfortunately, seems to be their "end game".
Part of this is 150% the dev's fault. Their short-sightedness is the primary reason for this. Any monkey eating a banana could have seen this coming.
Either 1) You balance the classes as they are balanced in D&D and keep them that way. If you don't like your class in PVP... roll up a different one or 2) Make everyone more or less equally boring by providing a DIFFERENT SET OF ABILITIES and ARMOR for PVP.
The second option requires more programming, true... but ultimately gives complete freedom for people to play a class AS IT WAS INTENDED without EVERYONE eventually being nerfed to mediocracy. Otherwise, they are trying to juggle knives and kittens and eventually they will get cut or clawed.... or cut the kittens.
So... that's it for me... and NO... you cannot have my stuff.
It isn't a 50% loss of dps since lurkers isn't always up.
It is still a pretty big change, I don't have the exact numbers and couldn't be arsed to come up with them. Just trying to keep thigns accurate. Lurkers isn't 100% uptime, rogues take awhile to build AP, I would say at most it's a 25% dps loss, which is pretty big. Probably more along the lines of 15-20% though.
There is math in front of you. LA is a big chunk of TR's DPS. It takes a while to build, right. So let's nerf it to the oblivion. Nerfing the DPS of LA by a 30% means nerfing the damage of rogues by a 30% also.
And you are still not counting the At-will depleting stealth meter. That brings the DPS loss to a good 40-50%.
Unfortunately, physical proof > theorycrafting. So until then, all numbers are just theorycrafting and can be ignored by anyone, even they may be theoretically true.
And if the nerf is really unfavorable, there is a (very,very,very small) chance it will not make it to live.
Eh, it is theorycrafting only in a small side. Probably, the physical proof will tell us that this nerf is bigger than numbers show us.
And physical proof will also show us how much the At-will will deplete Stealth meter. It's going to be a huge nerf.
But no, I don't think Cryptic will change it. My hopes are low.
It's painfully obvious that the developers have no clue what they are doing. It's also equally clear most of the players have no clue what they are doing.
Sadly... I already purchased the Fey pack, so I'm out that money...
You had bought your Fey pack already, so you might as well try the game again when the feywild module + the changes is live, then decide whether your $59.90 is still worth it. Meantime, just relax, and enjoy what little of enjoyable NW is left for you.
LOLZ - so even after being proved totally wrong about your 80% total damage claim, you are still showing your face around here trying to desperately justify yourself?
You do realise that all you are doing is to make sure that the Devs are less likely to take any other TR supporter seriously if they happen to see (and probably laugh at) your earlier posts?
If you really don't want the TR nerfed your best bet would be to stop throwing out wild claims and do some proper testing and report back. (BTW in your case video evidence would probably be a good idea if you want anyone to take you at all seriously.)
This game does NOT revolve around PvP. You are completely ignoring the fact that this change will probably make rogues less effective in PvE, thus making boss fights harder and more tedious, reducing the enjoyment for everyone else.
I'm getting sick and tired of changes in the name of PvP "balance" which hurt the PvE aspects, which to me are what this game is really about.
It is unfortunate that a PvP balance change could not be better implemented to not affect PvE as directly for TR...
Changes made to any class needs to be done in a subtle way, testing each change made on the ptr to make sure the changes being implemented are not going to cripple the class. Just from what I've read it doesn't seem like these changes made to the Tr are game breaking, but rather necessary to balance the class.
The Developers with their internal testing must have concluded that the nerfs needed to bring the Tr class inline with other classes needed to be this severe. I am sure that once players have had a chance to test these changes on the ptr and voiced their Opinions on the changes Cryptic will make the necessary corrections where needed.
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
It's painfully obvious that the developers have no clue what they are doing. It's also equally clear most of the players have no clue what they are doing.
Sadly... I already purchased the Fey pack, so I'm out that money, but there is NO reason to support a bunch of bumbling fools who cave to the masses' whim. That's lazy... sloppy... and ultimately self destructive.
I've been playing MMO's since the BEGINNING. And I mean that... the VERY beginning (yes, I am old). I've seen good, I've seen bad and I've seen ugly. Sadly... this game has gotten ugly for one main reason:
Lack of vision - there is no clear vision for the classes, the game or pretty much anything else. If there was, they wouldn't be so wishy washy with classes. The fact is, the vision has already been set out in front of them by D&D 4th edition. They've ignored it by listening to the masses scream for a witch hunt.
The fact is, with the traditional classes, there WILL NEVER BE BALANCE IN PVP and PVE simultaneously. I know... I've also been playing D&D since the beginning. There are certain areas where each class excels. Rogues have traditionally (since 1st edition backstab) been the masters of striking vulnerable spots and doing tons of damage. Fighters have traditionally been good melee damagers with the ability to soak up damage. Clerics have always been the healers and wizards have traditionally been the glass cannons who usually do tons of damage to large groups (fireball, ice storm, etc).
All classes had certain utility to balance out other abilities... rogues (originally thief class) could climb, pick pockets, move silently, hide in shadows and most importantly... disarm traps. That utility is GONE. Traps are meaningless jokes in this and every game that's tried to implement them, all the way back to the original EQ. That's one of rogues most basic and useful skills. In the original game, even if the rogue sat out on combat, you STILL wanted him because a single trap could kill the entire party, destroy loot - the good ole acid trapped chest comes to mind - and more... That functionality is GONE. NON-EXISTANT. VOID. NADA. Etc. in MMO's.
And to a certain degree, I understand. After all... you want EVERYONE to have fun. And in doing so, no one really has fun.... or at least, not as much fun as they could.
So, you take away one of the rogue's PRIMARY roles in D&D. What does he get in return. Well... he gets to do a tons of damage... to a single target.
Hmm... so... how does that work? Well... it works well... in PVE. The problem is PVP... when you have a class whose primary ability is to do lots of damage to a single target and then he does that to a single target who is another player, that person gets upset. After all... their role... healing, AoE or sucking up damage has worked well in PVE and well in PVP against similar classes.
Then they whine... complain and stomp their feet because a class is performing AS IT SHOULD. All because a certain class excels in a certain situation - which unfortunately, seems to be their "end game".
Part of this is 150% the dev's fault. Their short-sightedness is the primary reason for this. Any monkey eating a banana could have seen this coming.
Either 1) You balance the classes as they are balanced in D&D and keep them that way. If you don't like your class in PVP... roll up a different one or 2) Make everyone more or less equally boring by providing a DIFFERENT SET OF ABILITIES and ARMOR for PVP.
The second option requires more programming, true... but ultimately gives complete freedom for people to play a class AS IT WAS INTENDED without EVERYONE eventually being nerfed to mediocracy. Otherwise, they are trying to juggle knives and kittens and eventually they will get cut or clawed.... or cut the kittens.
So... that's it for me... and NO... you cannot have my stuff.
This 100% this..
This word BALANCE is whats doing all the damage, classes shouldn't be balanced, they never were.
There was a reason you chose a Mage or a Cleric or a Fighter etc, now the way MMO's are your choice completely lacks any consequence whatsoever with them all having the same skills just dressed up in differing guises.
There was a time when it was the players who created the balance by learning how to accommodate different classes into different scenarios to beat it but not anymore.
The old unbalanced nature of classes led to teamwork, variety and choice now you could enter PvP with any old combo and just stand toe to toe with each other regardless of class and all dish out 'balanced' damage. It just leads to a complete lack of variety and longevity to any game.
Unfortunately devs and games companies have gradually folded under the pressure from the have nots of this world in search of their $$ and todays short lived monstrosities are the conclusion.
those changes,just mehhhh.Here is what i would suggest.
keep the 8 dagger thing.12 daggers are too much.
nerf lurker's assault -20%.20dmg at lv1 +10%lv2+10%lv3
nerf bait and switch or whatever you want regarding the stealth refreshment.
I also demand a free respec in case the changes come to live.You made LA useless so i want my action point gain feats to get removed from my feat build.
LOLZ - so even after being proved totally wrong about your 80% total damage claim, you are still showing your face around here trying to desperately justify yourself?
You do realise that all you are doing, is to make sure that the Devs are less likely to take any other TR supporter seriously if they happen to seeing (and probably laugh at) your earlier posts?
what is so hard to understand?
maybe you dont know how flurry works
ill try to explain it in a nushell since i have to go now:
once youve applied 10 stacks of bleed, the bleed damage will always be the same, applying new stacks just refreshes the duration
so bleed does base +60% (lurkers) + 15% (combat advantage with 10 char and no feats for it)
now with the changes not only is lurkers adding 95% less damage and stealth depletes way faster AND bleed damage is recalculated every new stack, we are looking at base +<1% (lurkers, since you cant have the 100% uptime on bleed anymore) + 0% (CA, again, not 100% uptime)
thats a differance of ~ 75% in damage at MINIMUM
now we add in that most rogues have more then 10 cha and actually some feats to increase the damage from CA or from stealth and we are getting closer and closer to the 80%
as i already said, those 80% are real, its just that you dont know how the class works and thus you dont see that
The PvP nerf to stealth TR was necessary as it was a obviously broken game mechanic. This is the same outcry that Clerics did when their circle was nerfed. I feel your pain being a cleric player as we still are a crippled class. The only advantage DCs have is that we are the only healing class in Neverwinter so we get a group spot out of default where TRs compete with other DPS classes.
Assuming 1000 damage for every hit and 50% crit chance and 75% crit severity:
Now:
Every crit is 1000 + 1000*75/100 = 1750 damage.
Every 10 hits, 5 of them are crits and 5 aren't. 1000*5 + 1750*5(=8750) = 13750.
In LA, you hit for 1600 damage.
Every crit is 1600 + 1600*75/100 (= 1200) = 2800 damage
Every 10 hits, 5 of them are crits. 1600*5 + 2800*5 = 8000 + 14000 = 22000 (a 60% increase without LA)
On preview shard:
Assuming 1000 damage for every hit and 50% crit chance and 75% crit severity:
Every critical hit is: 1000 + 1000*100/100 = 2000.
In LA, hit will hit for 1000 damage.
Every 10 hits, 5 of them are crits. 1000*5 + 2000*5 = 5000 + 10000 = 15000.
On live, in LA, over 10 hits, you will hit for 22000 damage, a 60% expected increase of your base damage.
On preview, in LA, over 10 hits, you will hit for 15000 damage. A ~10% increase of your base damage.
Does this math please you? TRs have lost a good 50% of their damage counting this nerf only. Let's put togheter the "At-will powers will now deplete stealth" and we are reaching a good 60% DPS LOSS.
Thats not a 50% damage loss for the class. Its a 31% loss, during those opening seconds you are in stealth. Stop misrepresenting reality.
I also like how no consideration whatsoever was given to whether or not the new numbers would still be *enough*. TRs damage is astronomical. 68.2% of astronomical is still pretty **** good. So TRs will have to try a bit harder. Welcome back to the game the rest of us have been playing this whole time.
Ok so nerfing 2 TR skills, one which I do not use and one which I rarely use. Only thing that will slow me down a bit is the at-wills depleting stealth meter, and I hope my GGT2 set once I finish it well help me there. Moving right along.
My rogue doesn't not use duellist's flurry because it makes it hard to stay in stealth, and lurkers assault rarely (but not for the damage to get back into stealth). So It might affect my build a little with the changes to at-wills causes stealth loss (assuming it isn't significant) but that's about it.
Now make traps meaningful so they can destroy loot or kill off the whole party so TR gain that utility please.
Thats not a 50% damage loss for the class. Its a 31% loss, during those opening seconds you are in stealth. Stop misrepresenting reality.
I also like how no consideration whatsoever was given to whether or not the new numbers would still be *enough*. TRs damage is astronomical. 68.2% of astronomical is still pretty **** good. So TRs will have to try a bit harder. Welcome back to the game the rest of us have been playing this whole time.
Enough? What for? This number actually provide how ineffective a TR will be, specially if you are comparing it to the other classes. 68.2% of astronomical is not darn good. Considering that you are not counting the change to At-will powers depleting Stealth, we are going into the sub-par ctegory.
Nerfing THE ONLY THING THAT TR EXCELS AT will actually make them SUB-PAR.
I guess you are a PVPer reading your last sentence. Guess what? I don't care about PVP. This kills TR both for PVP AND PVE, the MAIN FOCUS of this game.
Changes made to any class needs to be done in a subtle way, testing each change made on the ptr to make sure the changes being implemented are not going to cripple the class. Just from what I've read it doesn't seem like these changes made to the Tr are game breaking, but rather necessary to balance the class.
The Developers with their internal testing must have concluded that the nerfs needed to bring the Tr class inline with other classes needed to be this severe. I am sure that once players have had a chance to test these changes on the ptr and voiced their Opinions on the changes Cryptic will make the necessary corrections where needed.
There is very little hope they will make any huge change before this hits live. Probably they will change it to 40% critical severity, but that will probably be a 1% increase of DPS from the one we are seeing on the preview shard (can't be bothered to do math with 40% crit severity too)
Rogue stealth needed a nerf because it was obviously a broken game mechanic. Not sure about the TR DPS nerfs, will have to review some game logs and compare them to GWF, CW, etc to see if they are too extreme or not.
Enough? What for? This number actually provide how ineffective a TR will be, specially if you are comparing it to the other classes. 68.2% of astronomical is not darn good. Considering that you are not counting the change to At-will powers depleting Stealth, we are going into the sub-par ctegory.
Nerfing THE ONLY THING THAT TR EXCELS AT will actually make them SUB-PAR.
I guess you are a PVPer reading your last sentence. Guess what? I don't care about PVP. This kills TR both for PVP AND PVE, the MAIN FOCUS of this game.
Hm. Well I guess the change is pretty severe. going from 60% base damage boosting to 15% crit severity is a hefty nerf. IMO it would have been far better to either add some crit chance from stealth, like maybe 15%, or do a different amount of crit severity like 25/50/75% crit severity which believe it or not would still be a sizable nerf coming from 60% flat damage boost. 5/10/15% CS is negligible. If there were no bonus it wouldn't make much difference.
It is one of the harsher nerfs ive ever seen in MMO history and ive played a lot of MMOs. Feels like a knee jerk reaction from the devs, who I guess opened up their internal stats report and realized everyone has a TR as one of their 2 characters.
Rogue stealth needed a nerf because it was obviously a broken game mechanic. Not sure about the TR DPS nerfs, will have to review some game logs and compare them to GWF, CW, etc to see if they are too extreme or not.
They are. When you nerf the only thing TRs are good at, it is extreme. LA was nerfed by a 31%, At-will powers depleting methers will probably be another 10-20%.
Hm. Well I guess the change is pretty severe. going from 60% base damage boosting to 15% crit severity is a hefty nerf. IMO it would have been far better to either add some crit chance from stealth, like maybe 15%, or do a different amount of crit severity like 25/50/75% crit severity which believe it or not would still be a sizable nerf coming from 60% flat damage boost. 5/10/15% TS is negligible. If there were no bonus it wouldn't make much difference.
It is one of the harsher nerfs ive ever seen in MMO history and ive played a lot of MMOs. Feels like a knee jerk reaction from the devs, who I guess opened up their internal stats report and realized everyone has a TR as one of their 2 characters.
I've suggested this in the preview suggestion:
I suggest you to either drop the damage bonus to 15/30/45% or to improve the Critical severity to 30/60/90%.
With a 90% more crit severity, we will be looking at:
Assuming 1000 damage for every hit and 50% crit chance and 165% crit severity
Every crit is 1000 + 1000*165/100 = 2650
In LA, hit will hit for 1000 damage.
Every 10 hits, 5 of them are crits: 1000*5 + 2650*5 = 5000 + 13250 = 18250
A 35% increase from the base damage instead of the 60% we have on live now.
75% crit severity is still too low. A 90% Critical severity starts to be a good point.
As I said, I suggest either to lower the damage bonus to 15/30/45% or upgrade the Critical severity to 30/60/90%.
EDIT: The nerf is about 36%, not 31%.
0
raddatackMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I started to play this game about a month ago, got a lvl 56 TR now, having fun with it, already feeling the previous nerfs.
Now they completely destroy rogues.
Neverwinter team, if you do this i will most definiately delete my account and advise all my friends not to play this game.
No, this is not a threat... How could i threaten you with this? Surely my place will be filled with useless SIEMURKS.
Noobs cry when a great player kills them in the most tricky class, company is afraid they will lose those **** players, as they are the biggest P2W-lover moneycows, so they NERF... Pathetic...
This game started nice, ends with my utter disdain.
It's sad that you would quit a game just because they nerfed a class. You say that people are noobs and cry when a rouge kills them yet you cry when they nerf the rouge. Ironic.
Comments
STFU
go to hell men !!!
It isn't a 50% loss of dps since lurkers isn't always up.
It is still a pretty big change, I don't have the exact numbers and couldn't be arsed to come up with them. Just trying to keep thigns accurate. Lurkers isn't 100% uptime, rogues take awhile to build AP, I would say at most it's a 25% dps loss, which is pretty big. Probably more along the lines of 15-20% though.
Ultimately this is the only way to be certain.
It does appears that the nerf might be in the order of 30% (not 80% as a certain hysterical TR fanboyz was screaming), perhaps more given the other changes, but we really need to see a comparison for a couple of common builds on live and PTR.
If the nerfs are significant enough and there is clear proof of this, then the Devs might reconsider some of the changes.
the 80% are still fact for flurry and its bleed stacks
It is best not to even throw any number at this point. All we can agree on is that it is indeed a big situational nerf to TR.
It's painfully obvious that the developers have no clue what they are doing. It's also equally clear most of the players have no clue what they are doing.
Sadly... I already purchased the Fey pack, so I'm out that money, but there is NO reason to support a bunch of bumbling fools who cave to the masses' whim. That's lazy... sloppy... and ultimately self destructive.
I've been playing MMO's since the BEGINNING. And I mean that... the VERY beginning (yes, I am old). I've seen good, I've seen bad and I've seen ugly. Sadly... this game has gotten ugly for one main reason:
Lack of vision - there is no clear vision for the classes, the game or pretty much anything else. If there was, they wouldn't be so wishy washy with classes. The fact is, the vision has already been set out in front of them by D&D 4th edition. They've ignored it by listening to the masses scream for a witch hunt.
The fact is, with the traditional classes, there WILL NEVER BE BALANCE IN PVP and PVE simultaneously. I know... I've also been playing D&D since the beginning. There are certain areas where each class excels. Rogues have traditionally (since 1st edition backstab) been the masters of striking vulnerable spots and doing tons of damage. Fighters have traditionally been good melee damagers with the ability to soak up damage. Clerics have always been the healers and wizards have traditionally been the glass cannons who usually do tons of damage to large groups (fireball, ice storm, etc).
All classes had certain utility to balance out other abilities... rogues (originally thief class) could climb, pick pockets, move silently, hide in shadows and most importantly... disarm traps. That utility is GONE. Traps are meaningless jokes in this and every game that's tried to implement them, all the way back to the original EQ. That's one of rogues most basic and useful skills. In the original game, even if the rogue sat out on combat, you STILL wanted him because a single trap could kill the entire party, destroy loot - the good ole acid trapped chest comes to mind - and more... That functionality is GONE. NON-EXISTANT. VOID. NADA. Etc. in MMO's.
And to a certain degree, I understand. After all... you want EVERYONE to have fun. And in doing so, no one really has fun.... or at least, not as much fun as they could.
So, you take away one of the rogue's PRIMARY roles in D&D. What does he get in return. Well... he gets to do a tons of damage... to a single target.
Hmm... so... how does that work? Well... it works well... in PVE. The problem is PVP... when you have a class whose primary ability is to do lots of damage to a single target and then he does that to a single target who is another player, that person gets upset. After all... their role... healing, AoE or sucking up damage has worked well in PVE and well in PVP against similar classes.
Then they whine... complain and stomp their feet because a class is performing AS IT SHOULD. All because a certain class excels in a certain situation - which unfortunately, seems to be their "end game".
Part of this is 150% the dev's fault. Their short-sightedness is the primary reason for this. Any monkey eating a banana could have seen this coming.
Either 1) You balance the classes as they are balanced in D&D and keep them that way. If you don't like your class in PVP... roll up a different one or 2) Make everyone more or less equally boring by providing a DIFFERENT SET OF ABILITIES and ARMOR for PVP.
The second option requires more programming, true... but ultimately gives complete freedom for people to play a class AS IT WAS INTENDED without EVERYONE eventually being nerfed to mediocracy. Otherwise, they are trying to juggle knives and kittens and eventually they will get cut or clawed.... or cut the kittens.
So... that's it for me... and NO... you cannot have my stuff.
There is math in front of you. LA is a big chunk of TR's DPS. It takes a while to build, right. So let's nerf it to the oblivion. Nerfing the DPS of LA by a 30% means nerfing the damage of rogues by a 30% also.
And you are still not counting the At-will depleting stealth meter. That brings the DPS loss to a good 40-50%.
He is talking about a certain hysterical TR fanboyz, not you nor your name. Learn some reading comprehension.
Like I said, it is best not to even throw any number at this point. All we can agree on is that it is indeed a big situational nerf to TR.
Eh, it is theorycrafting only in a small side. Probably, the physical proof will tell us that this nerf is bigger than numbers show us.
And physical proof will also show us how much the At-will will deplete Stealth meter. It's going to be a huge nerf.
But no, I don't think Cryptic will change it. My hopes are low.
You had bought your Fey pack already, so you might as well try the game again when the feywild module + the changes is live, then decide whether your $59.90 is still worth it. Meantime, just relax, and enjoy what little of enjoyable NW is left for you.
LOLZ - so even after being proved totally wrong about your 80% total damage claim, you are still showing your face around here trying to desperately justify yourself?
You do realise that all you are doing is to make sure that the Devs are less likely to take any other TR supporter seriously if they happen to see (and probably laugh at) your earlier posts?
If you really don't want the TR nerfed your best bet would be to stop throwing out wild claims and do some proper testing and report back. (BTW in your case video evidence would probably be a good idea if you want anyone to take you at all seriously.)
It is unfortunate that a PvP balance change could not be better implemented to not affect PvE as directly for TR...
The Developers with their internal testing must have concluded that the nerfs needed to bring the Tr class inline with other classes needed to be this severe. I am sure that once players have had a chance to test these changes on the ptr and voiced their Opinions on the changes Cryptic will make the necessary corrections where needed.
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
This 100% this..
This word BALANCE is whats doing all the damage, classes shouldn't be balanced, they never were.
There was a reason you chose a Mage or a Cleric or a Fighter etc, now the way MMO's are your choice completely lacks any consequence whatsoever with them all having the same skills just dressed up in differing guises.
There was a time when it was the players who created the balance by learning how to accommodate different classes into different scenarios to beat it but not anymore.
The old unbalanced nature of classes led to teamwork, variety and choice now you could enter PvP with any old combo and just stand toe to toe with each other regardless of class and all dish out 'balanced' damage. It just leads to a complete lack of variety and longevity to any game.
Unfortunately devs and games companies have gradually folded under the pressure from the have nots of this world in search of their $$ and todays short lived monstrosities are the conclusion.
keep the 8 dagger thing.12 daggers are too much.
nerf lurker's assault -20%.20dmg at lv1 +10%lv2+10%lv3
nerf bait and switch or whatever you want regarding the stealth refreshment.
I also demand a free respec in case the changes come to live.You made LA useless so i want my action point gain feats to get removed from my feat build.
Join the first neverwinter giveaway
maybe you dont know how flurry works
ill try to explain it in a nushell since i have to go now:
once youve applied 10 stacks of bleed, the bleed damage will always be the same, applying new stacks just refreshes the duration
so bleed does base +60% (lurkers) + 15% (combat advantage with 10 char and no feats for it)
now with the changes not only is lurkers adding 95% less damage and stealth depletes way faster AND bleed damage is recalculated every new stack, we are looking at base +<1% (lurkers, since you cant have the 100% uptime on bleed anymore) + 0% (CA, again, not 100% uptime)
thats a differance of ~ 75% in damage at MINIMUM
now we add in that most rogues have more then 10 cha and actually some feats to increase the damage from CA or from stealth and we are getting closer and closer to the 80%
as i already said, those 80% are real, its just that you dont know how the class works and thus you dont see that
Thats not a 50% damage loss for the class. Its a 31% loss, during those opening seconds you are in stealth. Stop misrepresenting reality.
I also like how no consideration whatsoever was given to whether or not the new numbers would still be *enough*. TRs damage is astronomical. 68.2% of astronomical is still pretty **** good. So TRs will have to try a bit harder. Welcome back to the game the rest of us have been playing this whole time.
My rogue doesn't not use duellist's flurry because it makes it hard to stay in stealth, and lurkers assault rarely (but not for the damage to get back into stealth). So It might affect my build a little with the changes to at-wills causes stealth loss (assuming it isn't significant) but that's about it.
Now make traps meaningful so they can destroy loot or kill off the whole party so TR gain that utility please.
Enough? What for? This number actually provide how ineffective a TR will be, specially if you are comparing it to the other classes. 68.2% of astronomical is not darn good. Considering that you are not counting the change to At-will powers depleting Stealth, we are going into the sub-par ctegory.
Nerfing THE ONLY THING THAT TR EXCELS AT will actually make them SUB-PAR.
I guess you are a PVPer reading your last sentence. Guess what? I don't care about PVP. This kills TR both for PVP AND PVE, the MAIN FOCUS of this game.
There is very little hope they will make any huge change before this hits live. Probably they will change it to 40% critical severity, but that will probably be a 1% increase of DPS from the one we are seeing on the preview shard (can't be bothered to do math with 40% crit severity too)
Hm. Well I guess the change is pretty severe. going from 60% base damage boosting to 15% crit severity is a hefty nerf. IMO it would have been far better to either add some crit chance from stealth, like maybe 15%, or do a different amount of crit severity like 25/50/75% crit severity which believe it or not would still be a sizable nerf coming from 60% flat damage boost. 5/10/15% CS is negligible. If there were no bonus it wouldn't make much difference.
It is one of the harsher nerfs ive ever seen in MMO history and ive played a lot of MMOs. Feels like a knee jerk reaction from the devs, who I guess opened up their internal stats report and realized everyone has a TR as one of their 2 characters.
They are. When you nerf the only thing TRs are good at, it is extreme. LA was nerfed by a 31%, At-will powers depleting methers will probably be another 10-20%.
Just with the numbers, this is extreme.
I've suggested this in the preview suggestion:
75% crit severity is still too low. A 90% Critical severity starts to be a good point.
As I said, I suggest either to lower the damage bonus to 15/30/45% or upgrade the Critical severity to 30/60/90%.
EDIT: The nerf is about 36%, not 31%.
It's sad that you would quit a game just because they nerfed a class. You say that people are noobs and cry when a rouge kills them yet you cry when they nerf the rouge. Ironic.
I am not sure how to explain it so that you get why you are STILL doing the calculations completely wrong, but lets try a simple example:
DPS class has 2 skills.
One gets nerfed by 55%.
The other gets nerfed by 55% also.
You CANNOT just add the percentages and go "OMG our SKILZZ got nerfed by 55+55 = 110% - we now do no damage in fact we HEALZ TEH BOZZ."
If you want to do calculations properly take a look at the post by shuy1:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=5251991#post5251991
which as far as I can tell seems basically right.