It has nothing to do with good or bad players. Something was broke and it needed to get fixed. Obviously they saw that and wanted to fix this terrible play that has been going on. I guess if I was a bad player and used perma stealth maybe I would be mad if I invested into it. I just would never play something bugged like that. If its broke fix it. TR was broke and its getting fixed its really that simple.
The problem is that this breaks all rogues. Not just perma-stealth. The lurker's assault nerf and at-wills draining the stealth bar breaks what the class was designed around. It's not longer a rogue with what they're doing to it. I'm an executioner build and this completely breaks everything I do in dungeons.
This game does NOT revolve around PvP. You are completely ignoring the fact that this change will probably make rogues less effective in PvE, thus making boss fights harder and more tedious, reducing the enjoyment for everyone else.
I'm getting sick and tired of changes in the name of PvP "balance" which hurt the PvE aspects, which to me are what this game is really about.
I'm taken aback. I have never seen such a huge destruction of a class in any MMO ever. I thought the cleric nerfs were bad, but wow! I don't play a rogue. My main is a CW and I have a GF and my old DC all in half-way decent gear. (Thank God) Dungeons are such a huge difficulty for me and my crew. I know everyone will tell me to LTP, etc. The thing is, I don't exploit and don't even know how. Running dungeons is tough and time/resource intense. I can't imagine, with all the posts about the state of end-game PVE, how the Devs could think they need to make epic dungeouns more difficult/time-consuming/resource intense by crippling the party's single-target DPS. I don't play a rogue, but this is not a good move. There is no need for it. If this change is (and I'm sure it is) to appease the PVP whiners, don't waste your time. They will move to the next class that kills them regularly and demand more nerfs. There is no future in "balancing" classes for PVP. If we fight as a group, balance is not an issue. Please, please, please let the rogues be killers. That is their job, their only job. Do you not see this. PVP is a joke, a bad joke on the PVE community. It causes nothing but grief. When was the last time you saw a thread on how wonderful the PVP is? Never? That is how it always will be. If you continue to destroy the experience of PVE by catering to demands of PVP balance, you will fail as a game. People really like this game. They are trying very hard to continue to like this game. The ironic thing is that the greatest challenge to your base's continued support is you. We want to play our game. Give us the rules and let us figure it out. Quit changing the parameters and just fix broken things. (Don't say rogues are broken. That's not what broken means. Broken is a power/feat/enchant/etc not working.) I hope this message is read an understood in the light it was written. I have really enjoyed this game. I truly want to continue to enjoy and support this game. Please help me and others to achieve this. Stop the destruction of your/our classes.
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raddatackMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It has nothing to do with good or bad players. Something was broke and it needed to get fixed. Obviously they saw that and wanted to fix this terrible play that has been going on. I guess if I was a bad player and used perma stealth maybe I would be mad if I invested into it. I just would never play something bugged like that. If its broke fix it. TR was broke and its getting fixed its really that simple.
Are you dense? Rouges aren't broken. The so called pvp gear they provided us is just so bad that classes just blow right through others.
How many of you whiners have actually tried the new balanced rogue? 0 So saying its destroyed is pretty stupid and unnecessary.
People that don't even play a HAMSTER rogue and people that exploit perm stealth are complaining lol We all knew that stupid class needed a nerf. Why don't you wait till its LIVE and PLAY it and test it before raging on forum? Just a thought.
Queen of Dragon Server
Goddess Uniique, lvl 60 DC.
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
before the previous nerfs i could kill syndrith while my party managed the adds in 5 minutes or so with some ray of enfeeblement/other debuffs aid.
now i can kill her but i have to sweat it really bad and the debuff support is a MUST.
after this patch i just can't see it happening, i'm not even sure 2 rogues will be able to do it.
seriosly, the TR role is killing bosses and when this goes live they just won't. not any better than a GF or GWF could at least except they provide much more toughness to your party. honestly what's the role for a TR going to be in a party now? this game has really stressed me out, not going to bother anymore.
How many of you whiners have actually tried the new balanced rogue? 0 So saying its destroyed is pretty stupid and unnecessary.
People that don't even play a HAMSTER rogue and people that exploit perm stealth are complaining lol We all knew that stupid class needed a nerf. Why don't you wait till its LIVE and PLAY it and test it before raging on forum? Just a thought.
How many of you whiners have actually tried the new balanced rogue? 0 So saying its destroyed is pretty stupid and unnecessary.
People that don't even play a HAMSTER rogue and people that exploit perm stealth are complaining lol We all knew that stupid class needed a nerf. Why don't you wait till its LIVE and PLAY it and test it before raging on forum? Just a thought.
There's already a test realm honey. Please educate yourself before you post on the forums thanks!
dude you are missing the point, pvp non-perma stealth rogue is still going to roll all over you if it did before.
it's pve rogue that has no reason to be in a dungeon now.
No I am not missing the point rogue was broke now adjustments are in place to fix them. That is the point. This is helpful for the game and for balance in PvP and PvE. So I look forward now with what is to come and makes me want to keep playing since they are making a effort to fix what is broke.
No I am not missing the point rogue was broke now adjustments are in place to fix them. That is the point. This is helpful for the game and for balance in PvP and PvE. So I look forward now with what is to come and makes me want to keep playing since they are making a effort to fix what is broke.
First of all how does pve even become unbalanced and even if pve is unbalanced there's no problem. PvE for dungeons generally work this way, correct me if im wrong, but the GF and TR generally fight the boss everyone else protects the DC and kills adds.
First of all how does pve even become unbalanced and even if pve is unbalanced there's no problem. PvE for dungeons generally work this way, correct me if im wrong, but the GF and TR generally fight the boss everyone else protects the DC and kills adds.
No you are right about GF and TR on boss but well dungeons that is another tough cookie that is off topic in this post. Don't want to go into that debacle dungeons have been messed up since day 1.
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demonofelru10Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited July 2013
I have a TR, a CW and a DC. TR has always been the most underpowered.
It is hard to keep up damage compared to a CW, as most of their attacks are AoEs. TR are purely single target attackers. Most of the time, when I run dungeons, I am the only DD attacking the boss, while everyone else focuses on the adds. Fights take a long time due to how the bosses are designed. Now you want to take all my damage away.
In comparison to DC, TRs have 0 survivability. As mentioned before, TRs can't take hits at all. As soon as we are out of stealth, it is a good chance we will die. Stealth is the only mitigation we get. I know running non-dungeon content, my DC takes quite a bit less damage than my TR simply due to self-heals.
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kingculexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
My opinion is that so many people are crying for this or that to be nerfed to better balance PVP when it comes down to the actions of the players being the issue. It is actually funny how many people get their panties in a twist because they lose in PVP. The idea of PVP is that one team wins and one team loses. If your team loses it is not a big deal and you should show maturity by simply moving on. You honestly do not want them to do another massive "balancing" update again because they will do more damage than good like they did with the last one. The decrease in difficulty in the dungeons is an example of the devs trying to fix the mess in the regular game caused by the "balancing" update that was done because so many people were complaining about unbalanced PVP. The "unbalance" in PVP often comes down to three things. The first thing is the player who was defeated is fighting someone who has higher gear. The second thing is the player who was defeated does not have enough skill to compete. The third thing is the player does not realize there is not a juggernaut class and every class has its disadvantages that must be overcome.
Now with that said I am generally not biased against any classes. This nerf will be a mistake and I agree it is ridicules to leave the ridiculously overpowered Sentinel GWFs and GFs untouched. The devs should boost DCs at least because of how bad they were nerfed instead of nerfing any other class. My current lvl 60 TR build does not use Lurker's Assault, Speed Swindle, and I mainly use stealth to set sneak up to use Encounter Attacks. The only issue I see that affects me is the Cloud of Steel being reduced which a TR can simply use impact shot to replace the removed cloud of steel throws. Oh yeah, my lvl 60 TR GS is 11.5K. It is funny because a sentinel GWF tried to accuse me of hacking because I out survived him when we attacked each other 1v1 at a point and I had already been died 5 times during the match. I was simply using regen, life steal, and a pvp potion to stay alive. People will still cry about being killed by TRs no matter what.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
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bpskibbenheimsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 210Bounty Hunter
I wonder why people still write about TRs being nerfed due to pvp unbalance, which is obvious.
LOOK:
if ppl are searching for 2-3 trs to do dungeon simply something is not right, why no one look for 2-3gwfs or other classes?hm? maybe after the patch it will change and TRs will be equall to other classes and ppl will run different setups not just facerolling with rogues.
Good less rogues. So let me guess when your class is bugged and OP you want to play it then when its brought into some balance which even after this they will still be OP you want to leave. That's just sad. You going to go to another game where rogues are exploited as your next stop just curious do the MMO bounce cheesy class to cheesy class. Any ways more players are happy then sad from this so lets rejoice.
Cant wait for the CW's to get the **** nerfed out of them, so we can see how the CW's cry just the same as everyone else.
I wonder why people still write about TRs being nerfed due to pvp unbalance, which is obvious.
LOOK:
if ppl are searching for 2-3 trs to do dungeon simply something is not right, why no one look for 2-3gwfs or other classes?hm? maybe after the patch it will change and TRs will be equall to other classes and ppl will run different setups not just facerolling with rogues.
I've seen people searching for two CW's just as often or more often than two rogues. CC OP you think? Just as they nerfed clerics, they should nerf the ability for CW's to cc in tandem. You wanna be fair? You wanna bust out the Nerf Bat? Than be fair, and be real.
I agree with some of the nerfs like reducing CoS but the LA is too much of a nerf if anything reduce it by half not 3/4 or less lol!!! and the At-Will powers reducing stealth are just a bad idea....Its supposed to be a stealth class not a partial stealth class. the damage is NOTHING compared to an Exercutioner TR so well done for ruining a class. If everyone rolled Crit tanks and pre-made 5 GWF THEN you will complain. The nerf bat is a little OTT
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raddatackMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I've seen people searching for two CW's just as often or more often than two rogues. CC OP you think? Just as they nerfed clerics, they should nerf the ability for CW's to cc in tandem. You wanna be fair? You wanna bust out the Nerf Bat? Than be fair, and be real.
You can't really say a CW is broken with all the CC because i mean it's in the name Control Wizard. They're meant to have that amount of CC
You can't really say a CW is broken with all the CC because i mean it's in the name Control Wizard. They're meant to have that amount of CC
So a Rogues not supposed to have stealth then... because its not in the name? Im happy and don't mind CW control abilities a good CW can easily screw my TR over. Its the GF Crit tanks that need a tweak not a nerf but a tweak and same goes for GWF
0
raddatackMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Why not... So its ok for a CW to perma chain lock us, root us, push us back and damage us at the same time. but rogues don't get an roots or long duration stuns and you're now saying we shouldn't be allowed to attack whilst in stealth. Perma Stealth rogues lose out on ALOT and I mean ALOT of damage when playing a TR in that way. Exercutioner Tr's hit for 25k+ and 1 shot but you're not bothered about tht no...?
0
raddatackMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Why not... So its ok for a CW to perma chain lock us, root us, push us back and damage us at the same time. but rogues don't get an roots or long duration stuns and you're now saying we shouldn't be allowed to attack whilst in stealth. Perma Stealth rogues lose out on ALOT and I mean ALOT of damage when playing a TR in that way. Exercutioner Tr's hit for 25k+ and 1 shot but you're not bothered about tht no...?
Now you're just acting like a little kid. When you attack from the stealth we know you're there and therefore you should not be stealth. And those other rouges hit hard but at least we can see them
Comments
Means they will just use these settings to test everything?
And possibly pull back some of the nerfs...
/hopes
The problem is that this breaks all rogues. Not just perma-stealth. The lurker's assault nerf and at-wills draining the stealth bar breaks what the class was designed around. It's not longer a rogue with what they're doing to it. I'm an executioner build and this completely breaks everything I do in dungeons.
I'm taken aback. I have never seen such a huge destruction of a class in any MMO ever. I thought the cleric nerfs were bad, but wow! I don't play a rogue. My main is a CW and I have a GF and my old DC all in half-way decent gear. (Thank God) Dungeons are such a huge difficulty for me and my crew. I know everyone will tell me to LTP, etc. The thing is, I don't exploit and don't even know how. Running dungeons is tough and time/resource intense. I can't imagine, with all the posts about the state of end-game PVE, how the Devs could think they need to make epic dungeouns more difficult/time-consuming/resource intense by crippling the party's single-target DPS. I don't play a rogue, but this is not a good move. There is no need for it. If this change is (and I'm sure it is) to appease the PVP whiners, don't waste your time. They will move to the next class that kills them regularly and demand more nerfs. There is no future in "balancing" classes for PVP. If we fight as a group, balance is not an issue. Please, please, please let the rogues be killers. That is their job, their only job. Do you not see this. PVP is a joke, a bad joke on the PVE community. It causes nothing but grief. When was the last time you saw a thread on how wonderful the PVP is? Never? That is how it always will be. If you continue to destroy the experience of PVE by catering to demands of PVP balance, you will fail as a game. People really like this game. They are trying very hard to continue to like this game. The ironic thing is that the greatest challenge to your base's continued support is you. We want to play our game. Give us the rules and let us figure it out. Quit changing the parameters and just fix broken things. (Don't say rogues are broken. That's not what broken means. Broken is a power/feat/enchant/etc not working.) I hope this message is read an understood in the light it was written. I have really enjoyed this game. I truly want to continue to enjoy and support this game. Please help me and others to achieve this. Stop the destruction of your/our classes.
Are you dense? Rouges aren't broken. The so called pvp gear they provided us is just so bad that classes just blow right through others.
People that don't even play a HAMSTER rogue and people that exploit perm stealth are complaining lol We all knew that stupid class needed a nerf. Why don't you wait till its LIVE and PLAY it and test it before raging on forum? Just a thought.
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger
There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
before the previous nerfs i could kill syndrith while my party managed the adds in 5 minutes or so with some ray of enfeeblement/other debuffs aid.
now i can kill her but i have to sweat it really bad and the debuff support is a MUST.
after this patch i just can't see it happening, i'm not even sure 2 rogues will be able to do it.
seriosly, the TR role is killing bosses and when this goes live they just won't. not any better than a GF or GWF could at least except they provide much more toughness to your party. honestly what's the role for a TR going to be in a party now? this game has really stressed me out, not going to bother anymore.
Math
10 char
There's already a test realm honey. Please educate yourself before you post on the forums thanks!
Translation - "idk what im gonna do if my rogue will be balanced, im enjoying having unfair advantage above other classes, help me !"
Pretty accurate. I mean now there class will be closer to fair and a real class without being bugged heavens NO!!!
it's pve rogue that has no reason to be in a dungeon now.
No I am not missing the point rogue was broke now adjustments are in place to fix them. That is the point. This is helpful for the game and for balance in PvP and PvE. So I look forward now with what is to come and makes me want to keep playing since they are making a effort to fix what is broke.
First of all how does pve even become unbalanced and even if pve is unbalanced there's no problem. PvE for dungeons generally work this way, correct me if im wrong, but the GF and TR generally fight the boss everyone else protects the DC and kills adds.
I accept your anger and offer you one solid hug. holding onto to you for 2-3 seconds so you are comforted.
No you are right about GF and TR on boss but well dungeons that is another tough cookie that is off topic in this post. Don't want to go into that debacle dungeons have been messed up since day 1.
It is hard to keep up damage compared to a CW, as most of their attacks are AoEs. TR are purely single target attackers. Most of the time, when I run dungeons, I am the only DD attacking the boss, while everyone else focuses on the adds. Fights take a long time due to how the bosses are designed. Now you want to take all my damage away.
In comparison to DC, TRs have 0 survivability. As mentioned before, TRs can't take hits at all. As soon as we are out of stealth, it is a good chance we will die. Stealth is the only mitigation we get. I know running non-dungeon content, my DC takes quite a bit less damage than my TR simply due to self-heals.
Now with that said I am generally not biased against any classes. This nerf will be a mistake and I agree it is ridicules to leave the ridiculously overpowered Sentinel GWFs and GFs untouched. The devs should boost DCs at least because of how bad they were nerfed instead of nerfing any other class. My current lvl 60 TR build does not use Lurker's Assault, Speed Swindle, and I mainly use stealth to set sneak up to use Encounter Attacks. The only issue I see that affects me is the Cloud of Steel being reduced which a TR can simply use impact shot to replace the removed cloud of steel throws. Oh yeah, my lvl 60 TR GS is 11.5K. It is funny because a sentinel GWF tried to accuse me of hacking because I out survived him when we attacked each other 1v1 at a point and I had already been died 5 times during the match. I was simply using regen, life steal, and a pvp potion to stay alive. People will still cry about being killed by TRs no matter what.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
I legitimately laughed at this response.
LOOK:
if ppl are searching for 2-3 trs to do dungeon simply something is not right, why no one look for 2-3gwfs or other classes?hm? maybe after the patch it will change and TRs will be equall to other classes and ppl will run different setups not just facerolling with rogues.
Cant wait for the CW's to get the **** nerfed out of them, so we can see how the CW's cry just the same as everyone else.
I've seen people searching for two CW's just as often or more often than two rogues. CC OP you think? Just as they nerfed clerics, they should nerf the ability for CW's to cc in tandem. You wanna be fair? You wanna bust out the Nerf Bat? Than be fair, and be real.
You can't really say a CW is broken with all the CC because i mean it's in the name Control Wizard. They're meant to have that amount of CC
So a Rogues not supposed to have stealth then... because its not in the name? Im happy and don't mind CW control abilities a good CW can easily screw my TR over. Its the GF Crit tanks that need a tweak not a nerf but a tweak and same goes for GWF
I'm just saying a control wizard is meant for cc. Rouge should have stealth but they shouldnt be able to attack while in stealth