teflondon75Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Solution A: Do dreadvault, your GF kit is Very $$ from there while the other classes sell for chips. B: Do Mad dragon and sell helms for 1 Mill+ AD while the rest of us give them away hehe.
U know GF/GWF items are low atm because they are not desired, with the upcomming patch and the buffs they get (and just plain skills working ) they wil be more playable and a lot of people playing tanks wil return to the game. And this wil drive the prices up.
Hopefully it will all balance out, fighters might even spike at the start of the changes
People will be stacking clerics for CN either way , so you can forget about GWF/GF being viable at all after the patch .
So don't run any dungeons or anything, spend lots of money to get lots of AD buy all your gear from the AH then quit the game cause you're max geared by spending cash, apparently the only viable way to get the gear your need.
I agree, it would be <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> (though nothing I said even remotely suggested that it would be the only viable way to gear up). But hey, here's a newsflash for ya champ, people can do that now, even with the greyed-out Need button, and it's not likely that PWE or Cryptic will do anything to change that fact since that's a source of income for them.
To simply ninja "need" loot an item you can not use, while all the while harboring no guilt what so ever over the fact that you just deprived another player that can use the item, is mind boggling to me. Are you totally bereft of even an ounce of sportsmanship, courtesy or respect for you fellow players that you can not see the issue at hand here?
Assuming all contribute equally, why is just one person entitled to the very rare purple? If it's all about time, effort, and teamwork, then how is it sportsmanlike, courteous, or respectful to reward that one player and shrug off all the other contributors?
If the game awarded a "consolation prize" that's worth approximately one-fifth the market value of the rare to everyone who doesn't get it (assuming a five-person team), I'd consider that fair. It wouldn't stop all the whining and bickering and entitlement and so on, but I for one would walk away happy. I might even run with pick-up groups to do endlessly repetitive content - because at least I could be sure of making some gearing progress (albeit indirectly).
And remember, this is really only an issue in PuGs. If I'm running with people I already know and kind of sort of trust, then it's a different ballgame altogether.
Finally, consider this - these ninja loot complaints are almost never on behalf of someone else. It seems people aren't angry about the unsportsmanship of it all, so much as the fact that people lost out on loot they think they themselves should have gotten. AFAICT, much (not all, but much) of this talk of courtesy and respect is just a cover for their own sense of entitlement.
All that said, I'm still all for individual loot drops, maybe with class-specific bias since that seems to be important to people. We can already see in this thread that a greyed-out Need button isn't enough for some. Seems we're already sliding down the slippery slope of restraining Need/Greed/Pass even further; we might as well just scrap it altogether in favor of a more automated and intrinsically balanced system.
____________________
The gorilla formerly known as Kolikos
0
werealchemistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Solution:Set dungeon reward metrics.
On boss loot, read player gs and item slots. Player may need if:
GS is below metric.
and
Item is for his/her class.
and
Currently slotted item has a lower gs than dropped item (e.g. likely to actually equip).
If all members have gs meeting or exceeding intended metric and/or all players who can roll need chose to pass:
Assume farming and standard greed auto-roll.
There.
Workaround: go to roll on item, equip crappy white items
GS is now below metrics
Player may need
Man i can see you thought that one through huh?
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thekudokidMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The people who want to be able to roll need on everything are the same people that wanted to vote for Mitt Romney or Rand Paul. People that are sooo far out there, they're unable to comprehend basic logic and common decency. Yeah i'm going there. Usually when posts start slipping into political ****, mods shut it down and this is a 22page whine fest by farmers getting shafted on their ability to steal items from genuinely compassionate players who understand how a game and being fair inside it works. Please close this thread Mods, This is f-ing absurd, an the people actually crying against this change should be banned ahead of time, since they're all gonna get blacklisted by the community anyway~
The only way to make the loot system work is to scrap it completely. N/G/P will always be flawed. Individual loot is the only way to get rid of these problems. in addition it would also get rid of the annoying popup every time someone picks up something.
The current loot system is just unacceptable in a modern action mmorpg.
@zlainfurry: Aside from your complete misconstrual of the "opposing" viewpoint (and I'm not talking about the political stuff), your response to disagreement is to silence discussion altogether? Good luck with that. I doubt this will be the last thread on the topic, and attempting to close 'em all down with political (or religious or insulting) mod-baiting could backfire very easily.
Yeah, because it isn't a logical disagreement. It's "whaa i need money screw you all give me money" f that and f those that believe they should be able to roll with the same weight as me on my class set of gear.
People will be stacking clerics for CN either way , so you can forget about GWF/GF being viable at all after the patch .
You funny you , no more AS stacking, but stil go dual cleric ? When u can have a GF who gives the entire team 50%dr and keeps threat from the cleric to spam heals more effectively.
Your like a little snowflake in a summersday, i like u .
Petram Sacram - I am no devine cleric, i am a Gaurdian fighter in disguise with better threat and supportive spells -
As long as the NEED choice bind the item on pick up, i dont really see big problem, and based on how many thread about this pop, u guys need to chillax, NEED will bind items or devs risk unbalancing dungeon runs, am sure few CW or TR would want to run Karrundax only too see the GF get a item every run, u can add cloak tower and change the classes that would get nothing every run, and the same with cragmire, idris etc.
I agree with you on this, narrowly. Only one side's brought logic to this discussion; but it isn't the side you're supporting. Your side has resorted to raw emotional appeals, blanket steamrolling statements, enraged outbursts, personal attacks and insults, and now, with your prior post, even real world political comparisons. Everything except rational, reasoned and logically supported arguments.
none of your threads make any sense, please stop posting.
Just skip his posts. He purposefully types gibberish to try to annoy people in the threads. Adding him to ignore, all his posts will say is "you are ignoring this person", which results in his posts making MUCH more sense.
This obviously is your First MMO and i can't believe the whiner ****in ninjas are still crying about this. Get over it, EVERY other MMO out there is either personal loot system, or Class restricted NBG. Stop acting like this is some revolutionary thing that no one has ever done before and will destroy your playstyle or something. Which if you're one of those ******s that rolls need on every single thing that comes up for rolling, it will, but those people get put on my ignore list anyway, The self entitlement of some players is astounding. Too many people playing this game are playing their first MMO and have no idea what they are talking about.
Mouse over the fckin item before you roll on it. HEY LUK STATZ! ignorance and still thinking you have an opinion worth contributing, HILARIOUS
I wonder if this post could contain more cursing, insults, ironic misspelling, and general childishness. Doubt it.
Also, you're a liar. You can't "mouse over the fckin item" when it's unidentified. Face it, the idea doesn't work in a game where you can't see the stats of an item. If they want "need" to bind the item to your character then we need to know the stats of every item we can possibly roll on. And that's not going to happen.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
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asashiroMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I wonder if this post could contain more cursing, insults, ironic misspelling, and general childishness. Doubt it.
Also, you're a liar. You can't "mouse over the fckin item" when it's unidentified. Face it, the idea doesn't work in a game where you can't see the stats of an item. If they want "need" to bind the item to your character then we need to know the stats of every item we can possibly roll on. And that's not going to happen.
You can when they're Epic (Purple) and really the only items the system is needed for.
Roll need should class only and item should bind and be worth zero gold. That way if you truly need it good for you.
Rings necks should be greed only too much confusion about BIS etc.
Sure a very very minority of ******s would grief roll need to annoy people but it would be less than the current issues.
Then most people would rightly roll greed and 5 people have a shot at the AD.
Problem solved.....
I am waiting to see the fail replies that follow. My favourite is they will need it to sell. Wait for it plenty of people dont read the full post. Wink
simpel solution. run with a group of people with some honor (guild members are great for that) and if there is a drop nobody actually needs everybody greeds on it... it's how i played the game ever since i am lvl60 - and as a matter of fact, i greeded on gear for my class worth 1mil + because i already got that item.. it's common courtesy.
if you are sad because you can't need on stuff you would not use anyway i pitty you and hope to never meet you in game.
Roll need should class only and item should bind and be worth zero gold. That way if you truly need it good for you.
Rings necks should be greed only too much confusion about BIS etc.
Sure a very very minority of ******s would grief roll need to annoy people but it would be less than the current issues.
Then most people would rightly roll greed and 5 people have a shot at the AD.
Problem solved.....
I am waiting to see the fail replies that follow. My favourite is they will need it to sell. Wait for it plenty of people dont read the full post. Wink
What about lower-level people running dungeons where everything is unidentified? How can they possibly know whether they need an item or not? It's smart to roll "need" on every green dagger that drops as a level 36 rogue, because you have no way of knowing whether or not it's better or worse than the one you currently have. Under the changes you propose, I wouldn't even be able to sell the daggers after acquiring them and realizing they are inferior. This would drastically reduce the amount of gold I'd have at level 60, when I'm running harder dungeons and need it for potions/major injury kits.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
Roll need should class only and item should bind and be worth zero gold. That way if you truly need it good for you.
Pinkfont already pointed out why this won't work during leveling, but I'll add that anything that even has the possibility of negatively affecting Zen sales is not something Cryptic/PWE is likely to do.
Cryptic could have done it; the idea was nearly as popular as the greyed-out Need button; but they didn't. Why do you think that is?
As for me, if we're gonna go to such extremes to rid the world of those terrible evil ninjas (that we players had the tools to control but didn't because then we'd presumably look like ninjas too according to the received dogma that nobody dares to question apparently for fear of being labeled a ninja), why not just give class-specific items directly to the appropriate classes? Why bother with Need, Greed, and Pass buttons at all?
But then I'm still all about each character having separate, independent rolls. No ninja-ing loot, no whining about ninjas, no negative impact on Zen sales, no grief, no fuss, no muss.
why not just give class-specific items directly to the appropriate classes? Why bother with Need, Greed, and Pass buttons at all?
I've been wondering this myself. N/G/P is such a bad system for an action game, but for some reason Cryptic/PWE wants to keep with it. I would love to hear what is so good about the N/G/P system that makes Cryptic/PWE want to use it over an Independent loot system. There has to be something right?
No a person who know how to play the game unlike other who need it to be change for their liking.
sooo if you do the right thing and not roll need on **** you dont need your playing the game incorrectly? Spoken like a true douchbag. Go back to china farming in wow or wherever you came from please.
What about lower-level people running dungeons where everything is unidentified? How can they possibly know whether they need an item or not? It's smart to roll "need" on every green dagger that drops as a level 36 rogue, because you have no way of knowing whether or not it's better or worse than the one you currently have. Under the changes you propose, I wouldn't even be able to sell the daggers after acquiring them and realizing they are inferior. This would drastically reduce the amount of gold I'd have at level 60, when I'm running harder dungeons and need it for potions/major injury kits.
Becuase the loot that matters in dungeons(Blue at lower lvls and purple at 60) are allready ID'ed. honestly rolling need on green items is silly as well and if you get a green upgrade it will be replaced within an hour by something better.
I've been wondering this myself. N/G/P is such a bad system for an action game, but for some reason Cryptic/PWE wants to keep with it. I would love to hear what is so good about the N/G/P system that makes Cryptic/PWE want to use it over an Independent loot system. There has to be something right?
1. This isnt just some"action game" where you play solo and all the lewts belong to you.
2. The NBG system has been around im MMOs forever and was always upheld 75% of the time.
It was this terribad community that ruined the NBG system and made it into a money making feature. Self Entitled little 12yr olds that roll need on other peoples gear is why they had to grey it out. Everyone of you *****ing about this change are each on of the reasons they are changing it. Get over yourselves and go learn how to be a real member of a community.
Edit:sorry for all the posts, I havent looked at this thread since Friday when i got done work.
1: Sorry to tell you but Neverwinter is an action mmorpg.
2: NBG has always had this problem, it is just made worse by putting it in a fast paced game. (like Neverwinter)
This community isn't the one that ruined it, it was bad to begin with. It has always been a money making feature and a cause of "issues" in communities, even back when MMORPGs were MUDs. (some of us are old enough to remember them) Some of us are just tired of hearing about "ninja looting" and want the n/g/p system to go away.
All this change does is place a Band-Aid on a much bigger problem. It will help, but it doesn't fix the real problem and that is the N/G/P system it self. Time to burry this much outdated loot system. (like so many other games have, or are heading towards)
As for an individual loot system, that doesn't make it a solo game. It makes it so you get what you work for and don't have to fight your party for anything that drops. If anything it makes partying better.
Probably said somewhere before but what about, Need available for Class item but if you use Need button it makes item BOP with 0 Vendor price, Greed rolls items BOE. Think would cure most problems.
This is the thing - nobody needs anything in a video game. I know this risks getting off topic, but I find it a little amusing and a little alarming that people invest as much of themselves as they do into having or obtaining virtual items, for no apparent purpose other than to obtain the next tier of virtual items.
Bingo! Someone get this man a prize! All of you talk about what you NEED, but in reality you dont know the difference between need and greed (which is blatantly apparent from the mass whining going on here). You 'need' oxygen, you 'want' in-game items.
Just do what I do, I am usually the party leader and I will instantly kick players needing on items they obliviously do not.
What about lower-level people running dungeons where everything is unidentified? How can they possibly know whether they need an item or not? It's smart to roll "need" on every green dagger that drops as a level 36 rogue, because you have no way of knowing whether or not it's better or worse than the one you currently have. Under the changes you propose, I wouldn't even be able to sell the daggers after acquiring them and realizing they are inferior. This would drastically reduce the amount of gold I'd have at level 60, when I'm running harder dungeons and need it for potions/major injury kits.
IDK why you are rolling need on a green item just because you might be able to use it as an upgrade. I agree with you its not smart to roll need on every green dagger. If it was a blue item then i understand but green items are so come and go when leveling.
Frankly the same rules that apply at cap should apply while leveling. You shouldnt get all the items by default.
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cichardMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Bingo! Someone get this man a prize! All of you talk about what you NEED, but in reality you dont know the difference between need and greed (which is blatantly apparent from the mass whining going on here). You 'need' oxygen, you 'want' in-game items.
Just do what I do, I am usually the party leader and I will instantly kick players needing on items they obliviously do not.
ya thats not a smart move kicking people not you just ****ed the rest of your team.... because the game doesnt refill the group when somone is kicked, leaves, Dc's
I find it funny that people are trying to use the real life implications of the words need and greed. Im pretty sure people understand that they dont technically need anything in a video game. Congrats on being totally disconnected from the gaming community. If your argument is that you dont need an item because its simply pixels on a computer game you should just stop playing video games since they dont help you in real life in any way.
Comments
People will be stacking clerics for CN either way , so you can forget about GWF/GF being viable at all after the patch .
Assuming all contribute equally, why is just one person entitled to the very rare purple? If it's all about time, effort, and teamwork, then how is it sportsmanlike, courteous, or respectful to reward that one player and shrug off all the other contributors?
If the game awarded a "consolation prize" that's worth approximately one-fifth the market value of the rare to everyone who doesn't get it (assuming a five-person team), I'd consider that fair. It wouldn't stop all the whining and bickering and entitlement and so on, but I for one would walk away happy. I might even run with pick-up groups to do endlessly repetitive content - because at least I could be sure of making some gearing progress (albeit indirectly).
And remember, this is really only an issue in PuGs. If I'm running with people I already know and kind of sort of trust, then it's a different ballgame altogether.
Finally, consider this - these ninja loot complaints are almost never on behalf of someone else. It seems people aren't angry about the unsportsmanship of it all, so much as the fact that people lost out on loot they think they themselves should have gotten. AFAICT, much (not all, but much) of this talk of courtesy and respect is just a cover for their own sense of entitlement.
All that said, I'm still all for individual loot drops, maybe with class-specific bias since that seems to be important to people. We can already see in this thread that a greyed-out Need button isn't enough for some. Seems we're already sliding down the slippery slope of restraining Need/Greed/Pass even further; we might as well just scrap it altogether in favor of a more automated and intrinsically balanced system.
The gorilla formerly known as Kolikos
Workaround: go to roll on item, equip crappy white items
GS is now below metrics
Player may need
Man i can see you thought that one through huh?
Have the loot parameters be generated upon the killing of the mob/boss.
The current loot system is just unacceptable in a modern action mmorpg.
The gorilla formerly known as Kolikos
Your like a little snowflake in a summersday, i like u
I agree with you on this, narrowly. Only one side's brought logic to this discussion; but it isn't the side you're supporting. Your side has resorted to raw emotional appeals, blanket steamrolling statements, enraged outbursts, personal attacks and insults, and now, with your prior post, even real world political comparisons. Everything except rational, reasoned and logically supported arguments.
Just skip his posts. He purposefully types gibberish to try to annoy people in the threads. Adding him to ignore, all his posts will say is "you are ignoring this person", which results in his posts making MUCH more sense.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I wonder if this post could contain more cursing, insults, ironic misspelling, and general childishness. Doubt it.
Also, you're a liar. You can't "mouse over the fckin item" when it's unidentified. Face it, the idea doesn't work in a game where you can't see the stats of an item. If they want "need" to bind the item to your character then we need to know the stats of every item we can possibly roll on. And that's not going to happen.
You can when they're Epic (Purple) and really the only items the system is needed for.
Fair enough.
Roll need should class only and item should bind and be worth zero gold. That way if you truly need it good for you.
Rings necks should be greed only too much confusion about BIS etc.
Sure a very very minority of ******s would grief roll need to annoy people but it would be less than the current issues.
Then most people would rightly roll greed and 5 people have a shot at the AD.
Problem solved.....
I am waiting to see the fail replies that follow. My favourite is they will need it to sell. Wait for it plenty of people dont read the full post. Wink
if you are sad because you can't need on stuff you would not use anyway i pitty you and hope to never meet you in game.
What about lower-level people running dungeons where everything is unidentified? How can they possibly know whether they need an item or not? It's smart to roll "need" on every green dagger that drops as a level 36 rogue, because you have no way of knowing whether or not it's better or worse than the one you currently have. Under the changes you propose, I wouldn't even be able to sell the daggers after acquiring them and realizing they are inferior. This would drastically reduce the amount of gold I'd have at level 60, when I'm running harder dungeons and need it for potions/major injury kits.
Cryptic could have done it; the idea was nearly as popular as the greyed-out Need button; but they didn't. Why do you think that is?
As for me, if we're gonna go to such extremes to rid the world of those terrible evil ninjas (that we players had the tools to control but didn't because then we'd presumably look like ninjas too according to the received dogma that nobody dares to question apparently for fear of being labeled a ninja), why not just give class-specific items directly to the appropriate classes? Why bother with Need, Greed, and Pass buttons at all?
But then I'm still all about each character having separate, independent rolls. No ninja-ing loot, no whining about ninjas, no negative impact on Zen sales, no grief, no fuss, no muss.
The gorilla formerly known as Kolikos
I've been wondering this myself. N/G/P is such a bad system for an action game, but for some reason Cryptic/PWE wants to keep with it. I would love to hear what is so good about the N/G/P system that makes Cryptic/PWE want to use it over an Independent loot system. There has to be something right?
sooo if you do the right thing and not roll need on **** you dont need your playing the game incorrectly? Spoken like a true douchbag. Go back to china farming in wow or wherever you came from please.
Becuase the loot that matters in dungeons(Blue at lower lvls and purple at 60) are allready ID'ed. honestly rolling need on green items is silly as well and if you get a green upgrade it will be replaced within an hour by something better.
1. This isnt just some"action game" where you play solo and all the lewts belong to you.
2. The NBG system has been around im MMOs forever and was always upheld 75% of the time.
It was this terribad community that ruined the NBG system and made it into a money making feature. Self Entitled little 12yr olds that roll need on other peoples gear is why they had to grey it out. Everyone of you *****ing about this change are each on of the reasons they are changing it. Get over yourselves and go learn how to be a real member of a community.
Edit:sorry for all the posts, I havent looked at this thread since Friday when i got done work.
2: NBG has always had this problem, it is just made worse by putting it in a fast paced game. (like Neverwinter)
This community isn't the one that ruined it, it was bad to begin with. It has always been a money making feature and a cause of "issues" in communities, even back when MMORPGs were MUDs. (some of us are old enough to remember them) Some of us are just tired of hearing about "ninja looting" and want the n/g/p system to go away.
All this change does is place a Band-Aid on a much bigger problem. It will help, but it doesn't fix the real problem and that is the N/G/P system it self. Time to burry this much outdated loot system. (like so many other games have, or are heading towards)
As for an individual loot system, that doesn't make it a solo game. It makes it so you get what you work for and don't have to fight your party for anything that drops. If anything it makes partying better.
Bingo! Someone get this man a prize! All of you talk about what you NEED, but in reality you dont know the difference between need and greed (which is blatantly apparent from the mass whining going on here). You 'need' oxygen, you 'want' in-game items.
Just do what I do, I am usually the party leader and I will instantly kick players needing on items they obliviously do not.
IDK why you are rolling need on a green item just because you might be able to use it as an upgrade. I agree with you its not smart to roll need on every green dagger. If it was a blue item then i understand but green items are so come and go when leveling.
Frankly the same rules that apply at cap should apply while leveling. You shouldnt get all the items by default.
ya thats not a smart move kicking people not you just ****ed the rest of your team.... because the game doesnt refill the group when somone is kicked, leaves, Dc's