No you don't. Only the charge bar moves faster, you don't actually get charges faster (which are indicated by the weapon flashes). Cryptic quality programming at work.
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mellinthMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 23Arc User
No you don't. Only the charge bar moves faster, you don't actually get charges faster (which are indicated by the weapon flashes). Cryptic quality programming at work.
This is only true for the first attack after you hit Unstoppable. After that it works fine. It's a bug with all of the at-wills.
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katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
Except I just checked it by recording and counting frames and it's not wrong. Unstoppable does not increase charging speed.
Did you actually look at the damage? Reaping Strike does full damage just after the second pulse under Unstoppable as long as it is not the first attack used after popping Unstoppable. It's an animation bug. I just tested it again and this is how it works.
No you don't. Only the charge bar moves faster, you don't actually get charges faster (which are indicated by the weapon flashes). Cryptic quality programming at work.
Wrongo. Even the most basic testing proves you wrong, although it isn't your fault Cryptic trolled you. The fact the animation is screwy, and the fact that Unstoppable bugs the first attack, means that it makes perfect sense why you didn't think it worked right.
Cryptic needs to be locked in a closet for a month and fix all these middling little bugs that they seem content to leave in their game. Of course, there are patently broken things for the CW so I guess they need the love first.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
Great thread guys. This should be read by all GWF and devs.
The manner in which T2 dungeons regular mobs are played, unless they do the invisible walls (like one poster said) there is no real difference in a few changes. Now in T2 boss and I guess T1 boss are a different story; there you cannot "punt" (except in CN, which is like super <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>) adds so the off tank role could be huge. I know what people say about two CWs and while 2 CWs is probably greater than CW+GWF, if they get it to the point where it is debatable, well I think that is a good start. If we can actually take aggro from the cleric or CW, all these boss fights might be done in various methods instead of some gimmick method someone discovered through trial an error or by some glitch.
The Destroyer paragon seems to be sacrificed and to be honest guys, not all three paths are viable for the other classes so when we QQ about having all three paths work for us, we are seriously looking like 10 year olds. If you are 10, sorry.
After thinking it through, I think there is a solution but probably not one they are willing to look at. This is how I see it.
Instigator=AOE damage master. Works great till T2. For all you GWF who saw this build and are just dominating T1 dungeons, I am happy for you, but please believe us, it is worthless in T2 right now.
Sentinel=Off Tank Would be ideal for lots of T2 boss fights. Instead of, DC run around and tank while TR kills boss.
Destroyer= (I think...) 2ndary dps. Now that 2ndary dps might be viable if the GWF was more valuable than a TR on the way to the boss. Meaning the trash between boss fights. But as the T2 dungeons stand that is not the case. Therefore anyone who would want a Destroyer GWF would rather have another TR and they would want him by a considerable amount.
Again, as I said in a different post, the GWF is not the main problem. It is dungeon design. I know what you are saying... "So put up the invisible walls!" Well if they did that, what would be the value of the CW? Also, do you know why there are so many places to punt? Because the mobs are trying to punt you too. They just suck at it. It was a game design. How do you kill near indestructible characters? Make them fall off a cliff.
I think the only way to solve this issue would be to make GWF destroyer near compatible with TR single target DPS. And if you are saying, "Why not just play a TR?" Then yeah go ahead and play a TR if you want to be top single target dps. But if you want a little variety in your menu and prefer to wield a sword over little daggers, well the GWF is for you. It gets to a point people, after like 12 character types where no one class is going to dominate a single aspect of the game. It becomes flavor right? It is surprising that NW is already (maybe) at that stage but if it is, then be at that stage and don't try to "invent" some role for a class that clearly does not have one due to dungeon design.
Think about it. The next class is going to be a single target DPS monster. I don't see the ranger or warlock doing anything else. Ranger maybe the the "puller" and 2ndary single target dps, but what does that make the warlock? It will be about flavor at that point. Just do it now. If a paladin comes around? What is that going to make the GWF sentinel?
Destroyer Paragon feat:
1. Get rid of what it is now.
2. Change to: When Unstopple, At-Wills do more damage in relation to your meter. At 100%, your at-wills do 50% more damage. It can even a burst effect like... Your at-wills crit 50% at 100% unstopple. I am almost positive 50% is too high and I am not a numbers guy like some of you but it seems like a nice number.
That is what I would do. I also encourage to offer more than "this sucks, this needs to change." Even if your suggestion is silly, offer it up. I know it sets you up to be trolled, but who cares.
What does "temporary health" do? I think it's shown in yellow bar but will it become normal health later and how?
Temporary Health would be a percentage given to a character when a specific set of circumstances occurs. Example, the new GWF. When you hit your Tab button and go Unstoppable, your GWF will be given a bonus of X% of Temp Health (in the form of Hit Points) that will last as long as you are Unstoppable. All damage will first be taken from the Temporary Health before your 'real health'. If the damage suffered is less then the Temporary Health gained then after Unstoppable you will go back to the exact HPs you were at prior to it. If you suffer more damage then your Temporary Health then the difference between the total is applied to your current Hit Points...
So let's say to are at 10,000 out of 20,000 when you hit Unstoppable and the bar is at full. Therefore you immediately 'gain' 20% of your Max HPs which equals 4,000. If you suffer 3,500 points of damage during Unstoppable when you come out you will be at 10,000 just like when you began. If you suffered 5,000 points of damage during Unstoppable then 4,000 of that is taken from your Temporary Hit Points and 1,000 comes off your normal Hit Points leaving you at 9,000 Hit Points once Unstoppable is over...
Great thread guys. This should be read by all GWF and devs.
The manner in which T2 dungeons regular mobs are played, unless they do the invisible walls (like one poster said) there is no real difference in a few changes. Now in T2 boss and I guess T1 boss are a different story; there you cannot "punt" (except in CN, which is like super <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>) adds so the off tank role could be huge. I know what people say about two CWs and while 2 CWs is probably greater than CW+GWF, if they get it to the point where it is debatable, well I think that is a good start. If we can actually take aggro from the cleric or CW, all these boss fights might be done in various methods instead of some gimmick method someone discovered through trial an error or by some glitch.
The Destroyer paragon seems to be sacrificed and to be honest guys, not all three paths are viable for the other classes so when we QQ about having all three paths work for us, we are seriously looking like 10 year olds. If you are 10, sorry.
After thinking it through, I think there is a solution but probably not one they are willing to look at. This is how I see it.
Instigator=AOE damage master. Works great till T2. For all you GWF who saw this build and are just dominating T1 dungeons, I am happy for you, but please believe us, it is worthless in T2 right now.
Sentinel=Off Tank Would be ideal for lots of T2 boss fights. Instead of, DC run around and tank while TR kills boss.
Destroyer= (I think...) 2ndary dps. Now that 2ndary dps might be viable if the GWF was more valuable than a TR on the way to the boss. Meaning the trash between boss fights. But as the T2 dungeons stand that is not the case. Therefore anyone who would want a Destroyer GWF would rather have another TR and they would want him by a considerable amount.
Again, as I said in a different post, the GWF is not the main problem. It is dungeon design. I know what you are saying... "So put up the invisible walls!" Well if they did that, what would be the value of the CW? Also, do you know why there are so many places to punt? Because the mobs are trying to punt you too. They just suck at it. It was a game design. How do you kill near indestructible characters? Make them fall off a cliff.
I think the only way to solve this issue would be to make GWF destroyer near compatible with TR single target DPS. And if you are saying, "Why not just play a TR?" Then yeah go ahead and play a TR if you want to be top single target dps. But if you want a little variety in your menu and prefer to wield a sword over little daggers, well the GWF is for you. It gets to a point people, after like 12 character types where no one class is going to dominate a single aspect of the game. It becomes flavor right? It is surprising that NW is already (maybe) at that stage but if it is, then be at that stage and don't try to "invent" some role for a class that clearly does not have one due to dungeon design.
Think about it. The next class is going to be a single target DPS monster. I don't see the ranger or warlock doing anything else. Ranger maybe the the "puller" and 2ndary single target dps, but what does that make the warlock? It will be about flavor at that point. Just do it now. If a paladin comes around? What is that going to make the GWF sentinel?
Destroyer Paragon feat:
1. Get rid of what it is now.
2. Change to: When Unstopple, At-Wills do more damage in relation to your meter. At 100%, your at-wills do 50% more damage. It can even a burst effect like... Your at-wills crit 50% at 100% unstopple. I am almost positive 50% is too high and I am not a numbers guy like some of you but it seems like a nice number.
That is what I would do. I also encourage to offer more than "this sucks, this needs to change." Even if your suggestion is silly, offer it up. I know it sets you up to be trolled, but who cares.
I was thinking... when the nerf especially to the bleeding thingy with rogues, 2 rogues dps will actually be lower than 1rogue + 1 gwf (whatever path) on a single target with the SS buff now.
Correct me if I am wrong, but that's the perception I got from rogue's forum.
I was thinking... when the nerf especially to the bleeding thingy with rogues, 2 rogues dps will actually be lower than 1rogue + 1 gwf (whatever path) on a single target with the SS buff now.
Correct me if I am wrong, but that's the perception I got from rogue's forum.
You're wrong. Rogues can always switch to Sly Flourish, which last I heard did about 80% of the damage that Duelist Flurry does. Meanwhile, Sure Strike currently does about 30% of DF's damage so it'd probably be up around 40% after the buffs. Now on the other hand, GFs may be able to be competitive now.
Instigator=AOE damage master. Works great till T2. For all you GWF who saw this build and are just dominating T1 dungeons, I am happy for you, but please believe us, it is worthless in T2 right now.
Sentinel=Off Tank Would be ideal for lots of T2 boss fights. Instead of, DC run around and tank while TR kills boss.
Destroyer= (I think...) 2ndary dps. Now that 2ndary dps might be viable if the GWF was more valuable than a TR on the way to the boss. Meaning the trash between boss fights. But as the T2 dungeons stand that is not the case. Therefore anyone who would want a Destroyer GWF would rather have another TR and they would want him by a considerable amount.
So, can we pray that new group compositions will include 2 GWF's (1 Sent + 1 Destroyer/Instigator)?
Bosses mechanics would be cake as adds would be mowed down and controlled.
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ioannides5Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
No, the new meta comp will be 1dc/1tr/1gf/2cw. GWFs still won't be invited to parties, and will be outshined by bringing an extra cw or even TR.
I don't think that's true... maybe for crappy players who play GWF.
REALLY? Give me one useful mechanic a GWF brings to a dungeon party then. Literally just one. I really wanna know at least 1 useful thing a gwf does that makes them worth bringing.
REALLY? Give me one useful mechanic a GWF brings to a dungeon party then. Literally just one. I really wanna know at least 1 useful thing a gwf does that makes them worth bringing.
Student of the Sword.
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ioannides5Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Even with student of the sword, bringing 2tr instead of 1tr/1gwf would provide a **** ton more damage, therefore GWFs still provide nothing to dungeon parties. NEXT.
Student of the Sword and Marks from Daring Shout & Indomitable Battle Strike, effect the entire group increasing everyone's DPS including our own obviously. That and Off Tanking / Add Control / AoE DPS to kill adds and everything else. Or that is how it should work at least.
Even with student of the sword, bringing 2tr instead of 1tr/1gwf would provide a **** ton more damage, therefore GWFs still provide nothing to dungeon parties. NEXT.
You wanted one useful mechanic, I'd say 10%+ dps to the whole party is pretty useful. But no matter, you've clearly made your mind already. I'll wait and see how the meta shapes once the patch hits live instead of trying to be a prophet, even if your GF TR CW CW DC vision is right, I think it's fair to say that people will be more inclined to take a GWF for a "suboptimal" run than they are today.
Student of the Sword and Marks from Daring Shout & Indomitable Battle Strike, effect the entire group increasing everyone's DPS including our own obviously. That and Off Tanking / Add Control / AoE DPS to kill adds and everything else. Or that is how it should work at least.
Darting Shout dmg resistance debuff is pretty low. The 15% dmg from the feat is only for you. And in general Roar is much more beneficial to you than Darting Shout for AoE (more determination and action points in a shorter cd+ some dmg upon use). For more single target dmg, is best to swap Roar for Restoring Strike. If they decide to put walls over those cliffs and CW cant knock them off anymore, a gwf will be the best option to clear waves of mobs by far.At least they will prefer one over a second CW. The only thing that concernes me tbh, is the huge nerf on Unstoppable. Dmg reduction could help you to mitigate dmg, and it was a great tool. I don't know if the extra health can make up for it, but i doubt it.
Dont forget that they fixed Sentinel Path too. We can be effective in AoE tanking, and if needed on mob kiting(if they fix cleric's threat).Sprint+Mighty Leap+Pushing Charge+Spinning Strike =Usain Bolt on Steroids. Yes not all of them together, but even only you pick one of these you have more mobility than other classes.
The only thing for now that we need in my opinion, is better scaling with Power, if not an overall small base damage buff on all of our skills (like 5% tops).
Well Student of the Sword at 5/5 reduces the targets defense by 15% on crit and stacks 3 times so that is 45% defense reduction, Daring Shout says marked targets have reduced damage reduction (can't find the actual amount anywhere), and Indomitable Battle Strike says marked targets take additional physical damage (again can't find the actual amount anywhere).
So that should increase everyone's DPS quite a bit I would think.
But again I would really like to see the Devs make the Marks last their entire duration (would help our dps overall and make us more helpful in groups), Daring Shout to generate more Determination / Action Points to be more on Par with Roar (and also do more damage with the Intimidation Feat because the 5% is abysmal, but it looks like they are addressing that slightly in the patch), for GWFs to build Determination by attacking at a base line level, and also Indomitable Battle Strike should give you the bonus action points and mark nearby enemies regardless of you getting the killing blow with that encounter or not (too gimmicky).
Also sounds like the should maybe buff the effects of the actual Marks too from what your saying theliethesame.
Comments
So if I understand you correct, you actually did less damage with WMS when you were cancelling? Or am I misunderstanding you somewhere?
I'm curious, what number were you looking at?
I was looking at the average damage. Should have been looking at encounter DPS I suppose ^_-
Also wow, those sprint cancel numbers are bigger than I expected.
Well, how do I put the picture here?
This is only true for the first attack after you hit Unstoppable. After that it works fine. It's a bug with all of the at-wills.
Did you actually look at the damage? Reaping Strike does full damage just after the second pulse under Unstoppable as long as it is not the first attack used after popping Unstoppable. It's an animation bug. I just tested it again and this is how it works.
Wrongo. Even the most basic testing proves you wrong, although it isn't your fault Cryptic trolled you. The fact the animation is screwy, and the fact that Unstoppable bugs the first attack, means that it makes perfect sense why you didn't think it worked right.
Cryptic needs to be locked in a closet for a month and fix all these middling little bugs that they seem content to leave in their game. Of course, there are patently broken things for the CW so I guess they need the love first.
The manner in which T2 dungeons regular mobs are played, unless they do the invisible walls (like one poster said) there is no real difference in a few changes. Now in T2 boss and I guess T1 boss are a different story; there you cannot "punt" (except in CN, which is like super <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>) adds so the off tank role could be huge. I know what people say about two CWs and while 2 CWs is probably greater than CW+GWF, if they get it to the point where it is debatable, well I think that is a good start. If we can actually take aggro from the cleric or CW, all these boss fights might be done in various methods instead of some gimmick method someone discovered through trial an error or by some glitch.
The Destroyer paragon seems to be sacrificed and to be honest guys, not all three paths are viable for the other classes so when we QQ about having all three paths work for us, we are seriously looking like 10 year olds. If you are 10, sorry.
After thinking it through, I think there is a solution but probably not one they are willing to look at. This is how I see it.
Instigator=AOE damage master. Works great till T2. For all you GWF who saw this build and are just dominating T1 dungeons, I am happy for you, but please believe us, it is worthless in T2 right now.
Sentinel=Off Tank Would be ideal for lots of T2 boss fights. Instead of, DC run around and tank while TR kills boss.
Destroyer= (I think...) 2ndary dps. Now that 2ndary dps might be viable if the GWF was more valuable than a TR on the way to the boss. Meaning the trash between boss fights. But as the T2 dungeons stand that is not the case. Therefore anyone who would want a Destroyer GWF would rather have another TR and they would want him by a considerable amount.
Again, as I said in a different post, the GWF is not the main problem. It is dungeon design. I know what you are saying... "So put up the invisible walls!" Well if they did that, what would be the value of the CW? Also, do you know why there are so many places to punt? Because the mobs are trying to punt you too. They just suck at it. It was a game design. How do you kill near indestructible characters? Make them fall off a cliff.
I think the only way to solve this issue would be to make GWF destroyer near compatible with TR single target DPS. And if you are saying, "Why not just play a TR?" Then yeah go ahead and play a TR if you want to be top single target dps. But if you want a little variety in your menu and prefer to wield a sword over little daggers, well the GWF is for you. It gets to a point people, after like 12 character types where no one class is going to dominate a single aspect of the game. It becomes flavor right? It is surprising that NW is already (maybe) at that stage but if it is, then be at that stage and don't try to "invent" some role for a class that clearly does not have one due to dungeon design.
Think about it. The next class is going to be a single target DPS monster. I don't see the ranger or warlock doing anything else. Ranger maybe the the "puller" and 2ndary single target dps, but what does that make the warlock? It will be about flavor at that point. Just do it now. If a paladin comes around? What is that going to make the GWF sentinel?
Destroyer Paragon feat:
1. Get rid of what it is now.
2. Change to: When Unstopple, At-Wills do more damage in relation to your meter. At 100%, your at-wills do 50% more damage. It can even a burst effect like... Your at-wills crit 50% at 100% unstopple. I am almost positive 50% is too high and I am not a numbers guy like some of you but it seems like a nice number.
That is what I would do. I also encourage to offer more than "this sucks, this needs to change." Even if your suggestion is silly, offer it up. I know it sets you up to be trolled, but who cares.
So let's say to are at 10,000 out of 20,000 when you hit Unstoppable and the bar is at full. Therefore you immediately 'gain' 20% of your Max HPs which equals 4,000. If you suffer 3,500 points of damage during Unstoppable when you come out you will be at 10,000 just like when you began. If you suffered 5,000 points of damage during Unstoppable then 4,000 of that is taken from your Temporary Hit Points and 1,000 comes off your normal Hit Points leaving you at 9,000 Hit Points once Unstoppable is over...
It really is pretty awesome.
I was thinking... when the nerf especially to the bleeding thingy with rogues, 2 rogues dps will actually be lower than 1rogue + 1 gwf (whatever path) on a single target with the SS buff now.
Correct me if I am wrong, but that's the perception I got from rogue's forum.
You're wrong. Rogues can always switch to Sly Flourish, which last I heard did about 80% of the damage that Duelist Flurry does. Meanwhile, Sure Strike currently does about 30% of DF's damage so it'd probably be up around 40% after the buffs. Now on the other hand, GFs may be able to be competitive now.
Bosses mechanics would be cake as adds would be mowed down and controlled.
I don't think that's true... maybe for crappy players who play GWF.
REALLY? Give me one useful mechanic a GWF brings to a dungeon party then. Literally just one. I really wanna know at least 1 useful thing a gwf does that makes them worth bringing.
Student of the Sword.
Even with student of the sword, bringing 2tr instead of 1tr/1gwf would provide a **** ton more damage, therefore GWFs still provide nothing to dungeon parties. NEXT.
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You wanted one useful mechanic, I'd say 10%+ dps to the whole party is pretty useful. But no matter, you've clearly made your mind already. I'll wait and see how the meta shapes once the patch hits live instead of trying to be a prophet, even if your GF TR CW CW DC vision is right, I think it's fair to say that people will be more inclined to take a GWF for a "suboptimal" run than they are today.
Darting Shout dmg resistance debuff is pretty low. The 15% dmg from the feat is only for you. And in general Roar is much more beneficial to you than Darting Shout for AoE (more determination and action points in a shorter cd+ some dmg upon use). For more single target dmg, is best to swap Roar for Restoring Strike. If they decide to put walls over those cliffs and CW cant knock them off anymore, a gwf will be the best option to clear waves of mobs by far.At least they will prefer one over a second CW. The only thing that concernes me tbh, is the huge nerf on Unstoppable. Dmg reduction could help you to mitigate dmg, and it was a great tool. I don't know if the extra health can make up for it, but i doubt it.
Dont forget that they fixed Sentinel Path too. We can be effective in AoE tanking, and if needed on mob kiting(if they fix cleric's threat).Sprint+Mighty Leap+Pushing Charge+Spinning Strike =Usain Bolt on Steroids. Yes not all of them together, but even only you pick one of these you have more mobility than other classes.
The only thing for now that we need in my opinion, is better scaling with Power, if not an overall small base damage buff on all of our skills (like 5% tops).
So that should increase everyone's DPS quite a bit I would think.
But again I would really like to see the Devs make the Marks last their entire duration (would help our dps overall and make us more helpful in groups), Daring Shout to generate more Determination / Action Points to be more on Par with Roar (and also do more damage with the Intimidation Feat because the 5% is abysmal, but it looks like they are addressing that slightly in the patch), for GWFs to build Determination by attacking at a base line level, and also Indomitable Battle Strike should give you the bonus action points and mark nearby enemies regardless of you getting the killing blow with that encounter or not (too gimmicky).
Also sounds like the should maybe buff the effects of the actual Marks too from what your saying theliethesame.
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Nothing was removed, unstoppable now grants 10% to 20% temp HP and 25% to 50% mitigation as it used to.