The main problem is that there are too few PvP Players in Neverwinter. I have often the feeling if i queue and get a queue in like 1-3 minutes the match is balanced because the system knows there are people matching my Gearscore+Leaderboardscore. After 5 or more Minutes i get pretty much "random" matches (the system seems to try to get everyone in a match). Which are similar to the video.
Like some other people in this forum mentioned: there are not much PvP Players in Neverwinter. Only 5-10% of the players are playing PvP. This means that there are not much players queuing in the same timeframe this leads to another conclusion: No System would make it better. Maybe if the PvP gets a vast overhaul which leads to more player in PvP would be a solution, but this needs a lot of effort, hard work and money and i think it is not likely that PWE/Cryptic will do it (and like Roger from the AMA mentioned there are no vast PvP Updates in the near future planned to release).
It is a bit of a shame because well designed PvP could increase Neverwinters lifespan beyond PvE content...
Besides doing Tiamat over and over and over and over and over again, is there any pve content except doing more Tiamat?
TBH Neverwinter could be so much more. PVE doesnt really exists, there is no reason to farm artifact RP. The content is completly doable with t2 equip. And that is nearly for free in the ah. And to top it all bosses in the game do the same tactics, red circles. Some more, some less. Its kinda boring and not worth any effort.
The game mechanic could make this game by far the pvp mmo. Theres no other similar to it. It feels right to play pvp here. And thats not because of op classes, wich exists in every mmo. Game mechanics of classes are that different, its impossible to balance it out. The only real problem is the abstruse gs difference between high equip and beginning pvp players. The solution is simple. Like in low tier pvp all have the same level they could charge the low geared player percentualy up to a certain gs. Lets say a minimum of 18k. Would be much smoother then.
For me this game is just pvp atm, cause pve is a total fail like it is today. I just play low tier pvp these days. Its much more balanced, i often see good matches. The gs issue isnt that enormous. This there, but ignorable for me.
PVP is almost dead cause of over geared pre-made players stomping on solo Q, low geared players.
And developers can't do anything about it.
I would suggest
- disabling party join
- disable the free AD from daily pvp.
what makes me more sad is the veteran gamers who already know matchmaking is borken/doesn't exist and yet, they do a party join.
well these guys either want to make players rage or show to game developers how bad the matchmaking is.
People form premades because they get sick and tired of queing solo and being tossed into groups of absolutely clueless players who do not understand the very basics of domination pvp and who simply run around and do their best to not die and leech-cap nodes. A group who knows how to play domination pvp will likely also know how to get to 14k gs without spending any money at all, so you end up in a group of skilled 14k gs players. That group over the course of a few dozen matches, will get you into the top 100 leaderboard pages. You will beat lower geared teams, you will beat higher geared teams. You will lose against higher geared teams with equal skills.
Want to not fail in domination pvp? Keep track of the best players within about 3k gs of you, on your team the opposing team, send them friend invites. Invite them to pvp parties, ask for invites to pvp parties.
One of the challenges of pvp that it makes it exponentially more difficult than pve, is that you have to be social to succeed. You have to actually coordinate and use creative problem solving against other coordinated teams who are using creative problem solving to beat you.
Queing solo is what should be eliminated. You should have to que as a team. Because it is a team game. Give me a well coordinated group of 14k players that understands you need to cap nodes and keep them blue more than red, and it will beat any 24k gs collection of players who are not coordinated, who do not understand that you they need to cap nodes and keep them blue more than red. Beat them all day, every day.
In the end it is domination, not "survive and kill".
As far as I can see from the behavior of the Devs PvP isn't a priority on this game even tho it needs some urgent fixes. We get a whole new module but not a even a minimal fix for PvP.
over geared pre-made players stomping on solo Q, low geared players.
It sure leads to strange results. My 9k TR yesterday found herself pugged with a 24k+ semi-premade (with, not against)
The red team inspected us and being only 20k+ they decided they could not win.
I capped the B1, the others blues capped B2 and B3.
"They're starting to kick themselves off" someone in the blue team said.
"Oh but then we will lose points in the LeaderBoard, let's get out of this one" the blue leader of semi-premade replied.
They left too.
After 15 more minutes of nothing happening and all bases capped in blue, the pvp ended.
Blue team won.
I got no reward.
It sure leads to strange results. My 9k TR yesterday found herself pugged with a 24k+ semi-premade (with, not against)
The red team inspected us and being only 20k+ they decided they could not win.
I capped the B1, the others blues capped B2 and B3.
"They're starting to kick themselves off" someone in the blue team said.
"Oh but then we will lose points in the LeaderBoard, let's get out of this one" the blue leader of semi-premade replied.
They left too.
After 15 more minutes of nothing happening and all bases capped in blue, the pvp ended.
Blue team won.
I got no reward.
A dying game.
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
It sure leads to strange results. My 9k TR yesterday found herself pugged with a 24k+ semi-premade (with, not against)
The red team inspected us and being only 20k+ they decided they could not win.
I capped the B1, the others blues capped B2 and B3.
"They're starting to kick themselves off" someone in the blue team said.
"Oh but then we will lose points in the LeaderBoard, let's get out of this one" the blue leader of semi-premade replied.
They left too.
After 15 more minutes of nothing happening and all bases capped in blue, the pvp ended.
Blue team won.
I got no reward.
you are the guy, you made my day full of smile on my face. lets post more stories about NWO . sad thing devs probably have no time so solve these issues
My friend logged in after a 2 months break, queued for PvP domination and got party of 10k pugs against 22k premade. He clicked alt+f4 and uninstalled. Neverwinter does everything to make players not to play it.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Doesn't matter. There is a high end PVP community where the guilds mix and often form cross-guild parties. 5 20k+ toons on the same team is not coincidence.
Right, but you made a very poor assumption that those guys all queued up together.
Queue system failed in that case and should've placed the two pairs of duo-queued players against each other.
How come cryptic doesn't do anything about this matter after this being talked about dramaticly? I mean no pvp fixes on the new module too. What are they thinking?
This topic has over 5000 views and the same complaints about matchmaking and I really cannot understand why Devs and Mods are not doing anything about it... Why are they keep ignoring this matter?
But gs disappears in mod6. Would LeaderBoard ranking be a better criterion ?
That is not a bad idea.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Artifacts should be allowed. Battle potions should be allowed.
Everyone can get battle potions. Not my fault if you don't want to spend 200 - 300 glory to buy 20 health pots or go and run around in Sharandar for a bit to boost your primary and secondary attributes by 1.
Two PVP tasks is more than enough AD to buy a potion that boosts all of your attributes by a further point. Or just use your own toon or a few alts to get the same potion with invocation coins, so you can save some AD.
So easy for a player to end up with +2 to their primary and secondary attributes and some healing potions.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Honestly they just need 2 queues for pvp. One solo (and only solo) that is unranked, and one that requires 5 people (premade) to queue that is ranked. People that like to solo will have a queue that lets them pvp and removes the element of going against premades. Program it where after 10 people queue to divide those players onto 2 different teams so that the GS is as close as possible.
This topic has over 5000 views and the same complaints about matchmaking and I really cannot understand why Devs and Mods are not doing anything about it... Why are they keep ignoring this matter?
In like page 3 was mentioned the system works with what it gets. PvP player are still a minority (and especially loud one).
So an league system an different queues seems a good idea but at the current situation it would take too long till an game starts.
Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
...take a look at the instance numbering when a friend of yours is in PvP, and you'll find that they often enough are currently residing in e.g. "Hotenow_Domination_34" or somesuch. So basically,...
...there seem to be _some_ PvP enthusiasts
...the long wait before launch seems to indicate that _some_ matching takes place.
But the results are more often than not rather meh.
This topic has over 5000 views and the same complaints about matchmaking and I really cannot understand why Devs and Mods are not doing anything about it... Why are they keep ignoring this matter?
My theory: It's intentionally designed to work this way so that the have-nots will spend money to earn their way up to the level of the haves in terms of gear.
...take a look at the instance numbering when a friend of yours is in PvP, and you'll find that they often enough are currently residing in e.g. "Hotenow_Domination_34" or somesuch. So basically,...
...there seem to be _some_ PvP enthusiasts
...the long wait before launch seems to indicate that _some_ matching takes place.
But the results are more often than not rather meh.
34 instances is pretty low. That are only 340 players. Even 100 is low, that are 1.000 active pvp characters. That is simply nothing. Neverwinter has after release 2 million accounts, after the launch with the Scourge Warlock it was created 200.000 of Warlocks so 340 or 1.000 characters in a PvP match is a small minority to the whole Neverwinter Community.
Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
What I think about current matchmaking system is solo should be isolated from 3-4-5 people premades. As well as low green/blue geared pugs from legendaries.
What I think about current matchmaking system is solo should be isolated from 3-4-5 people premades. As well as low green/blue geared pugs from legendaries.
Yeah, at least that much.
It's quite funny how 9 times out of 10 when you solo queue you see one team with legendaries and 18k+ players, and one team with 10-11k players with blue gear and/or 1 artifact. I'm sure many are alts doing dailies for RAD, but still, even with low PvP population, it should be granted that AT LEAST you won't get 10k teams vs legendaries/ premades.
People say "it's cause PvP population is so low that matchmaking does not work", but it's also true that PvP population is low cause class balance is so bad and matchmaking does not work.
So improving things a bit, for real, would push more people to go PvP if they can actually have fun playing vs players with roughly their level of gear instead of playing vs players with 10k more GS.
Also: PvP builds and PvE builds often are very different. Allowing dual spec would at least allow all players to PvP effectively, instead of forcing players to choose if they want to be good in PvE but weak in PvP, or the opposite.
People say "it's cause PvP population is so low that matchmaking does not work", but it's also true that PvP population is low cause class balance is so bad and matchmaking does not work.
So improving things a bit, for real, would push more people to go PvP if they can actually have fun playing vs players with roughly their level of gear instead of playing vs players with 10k more GS.
Also: PvP builds and PvE builds often are very different. Allowing dual spec would at least allow all players to PvP effectively, instead of forcing players to choose if they want to be good in PvE but weak in PvP, or the opposite.
This is what I have been saying for months now. People know PVP is a mess so they don't queue. They may start PVPing at level 10 then suddenly realise they are fighting twinks with R8s+ and Greater/Perfect enchants. First level 60 PVP and they are chucked in with 18k+.
Fix the matchmaking and people will come back.
I'm seeing an increasing amount of geared CWs getting away with PVE builds. Shield does a good job of providing them with some tankiness and then they pack so much CC and DPS that the average PVPer doesn't stand a chance if they get caught first.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
I keep coming back to the game thinking I will get lucky and get a good pvp match. It happens maybe 1 of 10 tries but that 1 time is enough to make me reque 5 more times in a day to keep trying for a good match. If the matches were regularly balanced I would be pvping constantly.
This on lvl 60 15k and above the following classes: gf, gwf, hr, tr, sw. So it is not like I am trying one class and giving up.
Of broken classes and every other problem, if the matches were at all balanced that would be the one thing that brings pvp back to life in terms of player population. So many things they could do to fix this. Even the choice to wait the extra time till you can be matched with others of similar gs, or take the faster que with/against any gs. Even gs brackets. Even tournaments. Anything at all.
Comments
Besides doing Tiamat over and over and over and over and over again, is there any pve content except doing more Tiamat?
TBH Neverwinter could be so much more. PVE doesnt really exists, there is no reason to farm artifact RP. The content is completly doable with t2 equip. And that is nearly for free in the ah. And to top it all bosses in the game do the same tactics, red circles. Some more, some less. Its kinda boring and not worth any effort.
The game mechanic could make this game by far the pvp mmo. Theres no other similar to it. It feels right to play pvp here. And thats not because of op classes, wich exists in every mmo. Game mechanics of classes are that different, its impossible to balance it out. The only real problem is the abstruse gs difference between high equip and beginning pvp players. The solution is simple. Like in low tier pvp all have the same level they could charge the low geared player percentualy up to a certain gs. Lets say a minimum of 18k. Would be much smoother then.
For me this game is just pvp atm, cause pve is a total fail like it is today. I just play low tier pvp these days. Its much more balanced, i often see good matches. The gs issue isnt that enormous. This there, but ignorable for me.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! 15k TR deals 28733 (41458) Physical Damage to you with Lashing Blade.
People form premades because they get sick and tired of queing solo and being tossed into groups of absolutely clueless players who do not understand the very basics of domination pvp and who simply run around and do their best to not die and leech-cap nodes. A group who knows how to play domination pvp will likely also know how to get to 14k gs without spending any money at all, so you end up in a group of skilled 14k gs players. That group over the course of a few dozen matches, will get you into the top 100 leaderboard pages. You will beat lower geared teams, you will beat higher geared teams. You will lose against higher geared teams with equal skills.
Want to not fail in domination pvp? Keep track of the best players within about 3k gs of you, on your team the opposing team, send them friend invites. Invite them to pvp parties, ask for invites to pvp parties.
One of the challenges of pvp that it makes it exponentially more difficult than pve, is that you have to be social to succeed. You have to actually coordinate and use creative problem solving against other coordinated teams who are using creative problem solving to beat you.
Queing solo is what should be eliminated. You should have to que as a team. Because it is a team game. Give me a well coordinated group of 14k players that understands you need to cap nodes and keep them blue more than red, and it will beat any 24k gs collection of players who are not coordinated, who do not understand that you they need to cap nodes and keep them blue more than red. Beat them all day, every day.
In the end it is domination, not "survive and kill".
Would have made foundry fans and pvp fans happy, but oh well, daily hubs are apparently where it's at.
Okay, Panic.
It sure leads to strange results. My 9k TR yesterday found herself pugged with a 24k+ semi-premade (with, not against)
The red team inspected us and being only 20k+ they decided they could not win.
I capped the B1, the others blues capped B2 and B3.
"They're starting to kick themselves off" someone in the blue team said.
"Oh but then we will lose points in the LeaderBoard, let's get out of this one" the blue leader of semi-premade replied.
They left too.
After 15 more minutes of nothing happening and all bases capped in blue, the pvp ended.
Blue team won.
I got no reward.
A dying game.
you are the guy, you made my day full of smile on my face. lets post more stories about NWO . sad thing devs probably have no time so solve these issues
Right, but you made a very poor assumption that those guys all queued up together.
Queue system failed in that case and should've placed the two pairs of duo-queued players against each other.
That is not a bad idea.
Everyone can get battle potions. Not my fault if you don't want to spend 200 - 300 glory to buy 20 health pots or go and run around in Sharandar for a bit to boost your primary and secondary attributes by 1.
Two PVP tasks is more than enough AD to buy a potion that boosts all of your attributes by a further point. Or just use your own toon or a few alts to get the same potion with invocation coins, so you can save some AD.
So easy for a player to end up with +2 to their primary and secondary attributes and some healing potions.
In like page 3 was mentioned the system works with what it gets. PvP player are still a minority (and especially loud one).
So an league system an different queues seems a good idea but at the current situation it would take too long till an game starts.
...there seem to be _some_ PvP enthusiasts
...the long wait before launch seems to indicate that _some_ matching takes place.
But the results are more often than not rather meh.
My theory: It's intentionally designed to work this way so that the have-nots will spend money to earn their way up to the level of the haves in terms of gear.
34 instances is pretty low. That are only 340 players. Even 100 is low, that are 1.000 active pvp characters. That is simply nothing. Neverwinter has after release 2 million accounts, after the launch with the Scourge Warlock it was created 200.000 of Warlocks so 340 or 1.000 characters in a PvP match is a small minority to the whole Neverwinter Community.
WTB Class Reroll please
Yeah, at least that much.
It's quite funny how 9 times out of 10 when you solo queue you see one team with legendaries and 18k+ players, and one team with 10-11k players with blue gear and/or 1 artifact. I'm sure many are alts doing dailies for RAD, but still, even with low PvP population, it should be granted that AT LEAST you won't get 10k teams vs legendaries/ premades.
People say "it's cause PvP population is so low that matchmaking does not work", but it's also true that PvP population is low cause class balance is so bad and matchmaking does not work.
So improving things a bit, for real, would push more people to go PvP if they can actually have fun playing vs players with roughly their level of gear instead of playing vs players with 10k more GS.
Also: PvP builds and PvE builds often are very different. Allowing dual spec would at least allow all players to PvP effectively, instead of forcing players to choose if they want to be good in PvE but weak in PvP, or the opposite.
This is what I have been saying for months now. People know PVP is a mess so they don't queue. They may start PVPing at level 10 then suddenly realise they are fighting twinks with R8s+ and Greater/Perfect enchants. First level 60 PVP and they are chucked in with 18k+.
Fix the matchmaking and people will come back.
I'm seeing an increasing amount of geared CWs getting away with PVE builds. Shield does a good job of providing them with some tankiness and then they pack so much CC and DPS that the average PVPer doesn't stand a chance if they get caught first.
Hear, hear!
Anyway, this is an ongoing trend since 2004 nov 23. Games change, people don't.
Since it's not yet possible I'll be here with my casual PvE thank you.
This on lvl 60 15k and above the following classes: gf, gwf, hr, tr, sw. So it is not like I am trying one class and giving up.
Of broken classes and every other problem, if the matches were at all balanced that would be the one thing that brings pvp back to life in terms of player population. So many things they could do to fix this. Even the choice to wait the extra time till you can be matched with others of similar gs, or take the faster que with/against any gs. Even gs brackets. Even tournaments. Anything at all.