Yet another patch, and still no class balancing.

ioannides5
ioannides5 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
edited May 2013 in General Discussion (PC)
I'm starting to think PWE wants this game to only be played by rogues, wizards, and clerics. Sorry GWFs and GFs, you still won't be invited to any dungeon parties and forced to buy gear off auction house. Hey, maybe next patch!
Post edited by ioannides5 on
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Comments

  • starkaos
    starkaos Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    It takes time to balance classes properly and most MMOs still try to balance them for years. Although, I would imagine the most recent problems have set Neverwinter back a few days for development. If you want your thread to have more impact, then list some ways how the class is broken and how to fix it. If it is just public perception, then that is more difficult to fix.
  • ioannides5
    ioannides5 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    starkaos wrote: »
    It takes time to balance classes properly and most MMOs still try to balance them for years. Although, I would imagine the most recent problems have set Neverwinter back a few days for development. If you want your thread to have more impact, then list some ways how the class is broken and how to fix it. If it is just public perception, then that is more difficult to fix.

    To 100% properly balance classes yes, but the way the classes are currently set up is well.. pure bull****. Minor adjustments should have been made weeks ago, its TERRIBLE game design that only 3 out of the 5 classes are being used in dungeons; this should have been prioritized to fix. You want me to list ways to fix the broken classes? Just read 80% of the **** threads in the "Gameplay, Combat, and PvP Discussion" section, or the class discussion section, almost everyone is stating the same things over and over again, yet these developers are not listening.
  • kmartinternet
    kmartinternet Member Posts: 35
    edited May 2013
    I don't know, man. I saw a GWF doing massive amounts of damages in my T2 runs. They scale extremely well with gear. Just gotta build it right I guess.
  • ogkelt
    ogkelt Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ioannides5 wrote: »
    its TERRIBLE game design that only 3 out of the 5 classes are being used in dungeons;

    I am not seeing this happen in game. Rarely when i queue for a dungeon or skirmish you will get several of the same class, but more often than not I am seeing all classes represented in parties.
    Sounds like reactionary exaggeration to me.
  • xumina
    xumina Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 188 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Yes, didn't you know balancing classes can be done in a wink of an eye, without the need for proper research as to how it will effect gameplay and other class.
  • ranguren
    ranguren Member Posts: 4
    edited May 2013
    I don't know, man. I saw a GWF doing massive amounts of damages in my T2 runs. They scale extremely well with gear. Just gotta build it right I guess.

    1. build it right for how you playing things.
    2. some class, PvP and PvE need different set of power to handle
    3. know your role on the team

    simple D&D rule, or most MMO actually, yet, just ignored. what can I say?
  • mechjockey
    mechjockey Member Posts: 265 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    xumina wrote: »
    Yes, didn't you know balancing classes can be done in a wink of an eye, without the need for proper research as to how it will effect gameplay and other class.

    LOL I expect people to be competent at their jobs. If you're telling me the only way they can balance the classes is trial and error, I am telling you we need a new them
  • ioannides5
    ioannides5 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ogkelt wrote: »
    I am not seeing this happen in game. Rarely when i queue for a dungeon or skirmish you will get several of the same class, but more often than not I am seeing all classes represented in parties.
    Sounds like reactionary exaggeration to me.

    Herp-a-derp... theres a difference between finding a party (using zone chat), and queueing. When u queue, the game will automatically try to set you up with a variety of different classes, Finding a party for T2s however, is next to impossible playing either a GF or GWF. Know the difference please.
  • kinsaeda
    kinsaeda Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    From the State of the Game post:http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=896631
    I’d also like to talk about class balance. Like any online game, class balance is a huge discussion, both internally and externally. We are definitely hearing this feedback and watching the evolution of PvE and PvP strategies in an effort to help bring everything into alignment. Right now there are a handful of powers and feats that still have bugs associated with them, so we’re working on getting those issues ironed out first. Once we’re able to make sure everything is working properly, our next step will be to start diving into the balance feedback, and do our best to not only make things fair, but also ensure that all of the classes are fun to play in every aspect of the game, from solo play, to group PvE content, to PvP.
  • th3silenc3
    th3silenc3 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Yet another patch? You fail to realize these patches majority are simply to patch exploits / server stability which are more important then class balance currently. When the game has fully stabilized elsewhere to a point where the game itself is not on the line im sure they will start to focus on balance.

    GG @ people who think just because theres a 'patch' that the patch should cover every single aspect of the game. PRIORITIES
  • borneol
    borneol Member Posts: 174 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    The game has a very ambitious class role structure. Having a healer, a tank, a single target dpd, an aoe dps and a control class. It is a lot more complex than the traditional trinity model. Not a bad thing at all but it is more difficult to balance, and more vulnerable to break in a different way in the process.

    For example if the GF could stack all the adds easily and tank them, then you might not need to CC them anymore making the CW useless (if cliffs are removed). If the ranger class can match TR dps but do it at range, you might not want a TR anymore. Clerics seems safe though, don't see them losing their spot.

    So I can understand why balancing takes some time to do. But they really need to do something soon because people with useless characters have a tendency to quit games if they don't feel like rerolling.
  • cpterikku
    cpterikku Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Here is my 2 cents from lower lvls but.
    i feel like the cc by cw with the ice focus is too powerful when there is two or more wizards.
    i do not know the rogue's ability's name but it stop powers and in pvp i think the duration needs to be cut? idk if that is possible in your code or not.If not maybe diminishing returns?
    most other things seemed balance. on the mage and rogue
    for GF
    i feel like the lunging strike need's a stun. maybe take off of griffon's wrath?
  • xumina
    xumina Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 188 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    mechjockey wrote: »
    LOL I expect people to be competent at their jobs. If you're telling me the only way they can balance the classes is trial and error, I am telling you we need a new them

    Balancing class is ALWAYS trial and error. I have yet to hear of any game that successfully balance a class first time round. Even so balance or not it's mostly perception, i'm not saying that a class will never be unbalance but rather i'm saying that even when classes are perceived to be balanced, there will be a corner of the community that claims them unbalanced. They can never please everyone and for that reason they need to study each class cause and effect or buffs or nerfs as detail as possible before actually implementing it. Balancing is not a magic wand act you know.
  • xumina
    xumina Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 188 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    cpterikku wrote: »
    Here is my 2 cents from lower lvls but.
    i feel like the cc by cw with the ice focus is too powerful when there is two or more wizards.
    i do not know the rogue's ability's name but it stop powers and in pvp i think the duration needs to be cut? idk if that is possible in your code or not.If not maybe diminishing returns?
    most other things seemed balance. on the mage and rogue
    for GF
    i feel like the lunging strike need's a stun. maybe take off of griffon's wrath?

    I'm sure the developer appreciates your suggestion... but so long as your suggestion is nothing but words with no verifiable data spanning across all classes as a whole for them to run through or test, your suggestion is as good as mere words.
  • cpterikku
    cpterikku Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    xumina wrote: »
    I'm sure the developer appreciates your suggestion... but so long as your suggestion is nothing but words with no verifiable data spanning across all classes as a whole for them to run through or test, your suggestion is as good as mere words.

    sadly yes.
    but once i get more character slots. and crunch numba's(lol)
    they might peek once or twice.
  • h2oratty
    h2oratty Member, NW_CrypticDev, Neverwinter Beta Users, Cryptic Developers, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ioannides5 wrote: »
    I'm starting to think PWE wants this game to only be played by rogues, wizards, and clerics. Sorry GWFs and GFs, you still won't be invited to any dungeon parties and forced to buy gear off auction house. Hey, maybe next patch!

    The class balance is in the upcoming content patch due out very soon.
  • ranguren
    ranguren Member Posts: 4
    edited May 2013
    cpterikku wrote: »
    Here is my 2 cents from lower lvls but.
    i feel like the cc by cw with the ice focus is too powerful when there is two or more wizards.
    i do not know the rogue's ability's name but it stop powers and in pvp i think the duration needs to be cut? idk if that is possible in your code or not.If not maybe diminishing returns?
    most other things seemed balance. on the mage and rogue
    for GF
    i feel like the lunging strike need's a stun. maybe take off of griffon's wrath?

    TR encounter have slowest CD if you not notice. from my experience it always depend of how you build and who set eyes on other first.
  • xumina
    xumina Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 188 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    cpterikku wrote: »
    sadly yes.
    but once i get more character slots. and crunch numba's(lol)
    they might peek once or twice.

    at least they peek ;)
  • joukuoj32
    joukuoj32 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    i still dont get why they fixing gateway or PVP. Fixing class balance now is pretty useless(new class and new paragon path will be coming to game). Only want fix for bugged feats(only for 1 class is great).

    Also i find interest thing when you start classes GF is only one who get all Powers after lvl30 from paragon path, other classes have some preset Powers after lvl30. It look like GF was add like last and no time for planning.
  • cpterikku
    cpterikku Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    h2oratty wrote: »
    The class balance is in the upcoming content patch due out very soon.

    AWESOMEEEE!!!

    now it's the waiting game... good thing foundry is awesome.
  • mistriosu
    mistriosu Member Posts: 279 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    ranguren wrote: »
    TR encounter have slowest CD if you not notice. from my experience it always depend of how you build and who set eyes on other first.
    You might have slow cooldowns, but who needs a quick cooldown when one ability does 40% of someone's health?
  • kaasdoek
    kaasdoek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    they improved gateways. Be happy..

    /sarcasme off
  • mistriosu
    mistriosu Member Posts: 279 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    kaasdoek wrote: »
    they improved gateways. Be happy..

    /sarcasme off
    The most recent patch was to crush an exploit before it caused another "Cat-astrophe". The other stuff was just icing that they threw in there to make us feel a little better.
  • cpterikku
    cpterikku Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ranguren wrote: »
    TR encounter have slowest CD if you not notice. from my experience it always depend of how you build and who set eyes on other first.

    well there are alot of variables, for example when 2 rogues got on me there was very little hope normally one having combat advantage after stealth break. cause normally a cleric or a cw will stun/cc you then they pop.

    but yes, i noticed a slight difference when the jump changed.
  • bracer2
    bracer2 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 566 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    ya.. when the fun is gone it time too move on. I play a GF and until tonight havnt had any issues getting in party for T2s. But have been kicked 5 times in a row.... on epic ice dungeon which ive completed several times already. Perception has fueled the fire and public opinion seems to have done its dastardly deed now. All good though, without D&D rules i cant hold interest longterm anyway. Gonna jump on my dwarven defender/weaponmaster builds in nwn2 for a bit. Just tired of it all i guess. Too much action, not enough RP, no dm interaction at all..... lol
  • kevinf08
    kevinf08 Member Posts: 432 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    I can almost guarantee class balancing is a very low priority atm.

    What's more important? Fixing the tons of exploits or making GWF epeen grow a little?

    Devs have been hard at work doing stability fixes and bug fixes, I'm happy with that and would rather they focus on those issues then class imbalancing (since whenever balancing is done, it just creates a new imbalance)
  • mistriosu
    mistriosu Member Posts: 279 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Look a tthe above post from a Cryptic member.
  • ranguren
    ranguren Member Posts: 4
    edited May 2013
    mistriosu wrote: »
    You might have slow cooldowns, but who needs a quick cooldown when one ability does 40% of someone's health?

    yes, but it become 1 time chance, more like kill or failed
    cpterikku wrote: »
    well there are alot of variables, for example when 2 rogues got on me there was very little hope normally one having combat advantage after stealth break. cause normally a cleric or a cw will stun/cc you then they pop.

    but yes, i noticed a slight difference when the jump changed.

    true, not just who they dealing with but also how they build the TR itself, some people made it depend on quality of the strike other build more to a fast stealthy killer.

    basis of the classes is role you playing, hey this is a RPG, is it not? also some set of skill worked so good in PvE but that does not mean you can use same set of skill on PvP and vice versa
  • cpterikku
    cpterikku Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ranguren wrote: »
    yes, but it become 1 time chance, more like kill or failed



    true, not just who they dealing with but also how they build the TR itself, some people made it depend on quality of the strike other build more to a fast stealthy killer.

    basis of the classes is role you playing, hey this is a RPG, is it not? also some set of skill worked so good in PvE but that does not mean you can use same set of skill on PvP and vice versa

    very true, ArP and Recovery build could be brutal, i want to try a Recovery/Movement CW. Just to see how things would work. One of the best parts of d&d is you have a class but you customize it!

    off-topic: i will always miss Vanilla Two-Handed Windfury crits.