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Official Feedback Thread: Refining Refinement

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  • melnibornemelniborne Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    With the RP costs going down and a pool system I think you guys will succeed in making inventory space less of a problem, Speaking for myself THANK YOU!!!!

    As far as coverting items into the pool please keep and eye on what will be bound Vs unbound the last thing I would like to see as a player is no ability to move RP items over to alts.

    On the changing of Enchantments are you going to make them less dependent of C. wards? as you go cause that is a massive grind point for new players and it would be nice to at least get the basic forms of many of these to experiment with, without demanding vast amounts of grinding time.

  • eoleeeolee Member Posts: 264 Arc User



    For new players, the system is overwhelmingly complicated. They don't know what enchantments to use as food, what to hold, what to look for, and we wanted to make that experience far easier for players to figure out. On top of all of that, there hasn't been any major additions to the system in a long time. We took a hard look at all of this and came up with a plan to improve it in multiple ways.

    I'm trying to understand this reasoning.

    First reason:"its complicated for new players." i'm sorry to say that but the new players don't read forum.
    Second reason: "there hasnt been any major additions to the system." So let's make ranks 14 and lets add 19 varieties of gemstones, from quartz to teal diamond because there hasnt been any addition to the refinement system?

    Wait and see i guess but im not optimistic.

  • mjonismjonis Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 146 Arc User

    :(

    seriously. this doesn't sound cool at all. and half off rp, half off rp costs so there we are at exactly the same. zero eachother out and no more 2x weekends so really without the weekends thingsn are 2x as expensive. all the time now so yeah no yay.

    There's no half off rp, but there is half off the costs of artifact/artifact equipment costs and the enchantment/runestones/enhancement cost less RP than before as well. The costs are lower.
    Perhaps I'm missing something, but I do see the point about removing 2x RP meaning the costs will be higher.

    The "costs" are reduced (I believe it says by a factor of 10, not half off), but also the *value* of the rp points are reduced as well. So if you *also* remove double RP, then isn't that essentially meaning things are going to be more "expensive"?

    Sorry if I'm being dense, perhaps I need an example of "Old" vs. "new" and without factoring in double RP and then we can see if it's really a lower "cost" or not.
  • onodrainonodrain Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    I just made it back to this game a few months ago and invested some cash. I really enjoy the game and I like to support things I like.

    At this point, we really do not know the impact of these changes to the RP system until we see them on test and can play with them.

    I like the idea of having inventory space again. I like the idea not saving up for refinement events, although that is some of the fun for some people.

    I like the Identify All button. That will save my mouse button from wearing out.

    Initially, the unhappy people will always give their reactions. It will be interesting to see how open minded people are about these changes.
  • mjonismjonis Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 146 Arc User
    Oh, also what does this do to Dragon Hoard and/or Quartermaster enchants? Dragon Hoard now drops gemstones or whatever now? But the "value" of DH and Quatermaster enchants may now not be as useful if double RP is removed?
  • froger#9967 froger Member Posts: 616 Arc User
    Since RP is going to be a currency and alt viability is a concern, it would make sense to be able to convert the currency into an equal value account bound item that can be transferred and converted back to currency on the alt.

    Another thought is to make bound and unbound currency. Unbound items convert to unbound currency, a tradable, sellable commodity. Then, just like the Zen exchange have an RP exchange. Also, during refinement make it so bound currency is used first.
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  • fluffy6977fluffy6977 Member Posts: 291 Arc User
    mjonis said:

    :(

    seriously. this doesn't sound cool at all. and half off rp, half off rp costs so there we are at exactly the same. zero eachother out and no more 2x weekends so really without the weekends thingsn are 2x as expensive. all the time now so yeah no yay.

    There's no half off rp, but there is half off the costs of artifact/artifact equipment costs and the enchantment/runestones/enhancement cost less RP than before as well. The costs are lower.
    Perhaps I'm missing something, but I do see the point about removing 2x RP meaning the costs will be higher.

    The "costs" are reduced (I believe it says by a factor of 10, not half off), but also the *value* of the rp points are reduced as well. So if you *also* remove double RP, then isn't that essentially meaning things are going to be more "expensive"?

    Sorry if I'm being dense, perhaps I need an example of "Old" vs. "new" and without factoring in double RP and then we can see if it's really a lower "cost" or not.
    So in exchange for no more 2x refinement events, refinement costs on many items were cut in half right off the bat, noticeable exceptions being Runestones and Enchantments. Then afterwards they were cut down to 1/10th cost to match the 1/10th RP value for currency cap reasons. So a better way to think of it is that instead of having 2x refinement every couple months, we get a permanent 2x refinement value, by reducing costs by 1/2, on everything but Enchantments and Runestones.

    Enchantments and Runestones now no longer need the second enchantment between R7-R10, so a reduction in refinement costs exists there as well. No longer will it take 8R7's to get a R10, instead its just 1 enchantment from R1-R14. Make sense?
  • fluffy6977fluffy6977 Member Posts: 291 Arc User

    Are you planning a game wide nerf in content to make up for the massive loss of dps that the bonding changes will cause? Tr's, CW's, and gwf's still haven't even had their rework yet, and somehow this gets higher priority...

    This game is super easy... I do all of the endgame content on a 12k IL GF and CW with R10 bondings and no guild boons, with a similarly geared group of players who understand how to play the Mechanics of their classes and the content. You absolutely do not need the current level of power afforded by bondings, you just need to pay attention and not ignore every mechanic.
  • noworries#8859 noworries Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 651 Cryptic Developer
    mjonis said:

    :(

    seriously. this doesn't sound cool at all. and half off rp, half off rp costs so there we are at exactly the same. zero eachother out and no more 2x weekends so really without the weekends thingsn are 2x as expensive. all the time now so yeah no yay.

    There's no half off rp, but there is half off the costs of artifact/artifact equipment costs and the enchantment/runestones/enhancement cost less RP than before as well. The costs are lower.
    Perhaps I'm missing something, but I do see the point about removing 2x RP meaning the costs will be higher.

    The "costs" are reduced (I believe it says by a factor of 10, not half off), but also the *value* of the rp points are reduced as well. So if you *also* remove double RP, then isn't that essentially meaning things are going to be more "expensive"?

    Sorry if I'm being dense, perhaps I need an example of "Old" vs. "new" and without factoring in double RP and then we can see if it's really a lower "cost" or not.
    We are going to be adding in an event that will give extra RP to players during the event time, it is too early for discussing those details. It isn't the same as 2x RP but it is bonus RP.

    Artifacts and Artifact Equipment will cost half as much to max out as they used to. Enchantments/Runestones/Enhancements have new easier progressions (which can be seen on the technical details thread).
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    mjonis said:

    Oh, also what does this do to Dragon Hoard and/or Quartermaster enchants? Dragon Hoard now drops gemstones or whatever now? But the "value" of DH and Quatermaster enchants may now not be as useful if double RP is removed?

    Did someone forget that while 2x RP is going away, other events will evolve or be updated like 2x Enchants. This was eluded to in the initial posts, yet maintained focus on the major theme, and we'll learn more details in the near future.

    And as I mentioned above. Artifacts will require 50% less RP and with the reduction of Enchantments & Runestones no longer requiring a duplicate enchantment of the same rank it's also reduced their Refinement by about 15-30% (possibly more).

    It's actually a nice benefit from today where nobody drops almost anything into any item except during 2x RP, and as he stated above their will still be a bonus RP event. :) I think many in time will see this as mostly very positive even if they can't now.
  • mjonismjonis Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 146 Arc User

    mjonis said:

    :(

    seriously. this doesn't sound cool at all. and half off rp, half off rp costs so there we are at exactly the same. zero eachother out and no more 2x weekends so really without the weekends thingsn are 2x as expensive. all the time now so yeah no yay.

    There's no half off rp, but there is half off the costs of artifact/artifact equipment costs and the enchantment/runestones/enhancement cost less RP than before as well. The costs are lower.
    Perhaps I'm missing something, but I do see the point about removing 2x RP meaning the costs will be higher.

    The "costs" are reduced (I believe it says by a factor of 10, not half off), but also the *value* of the rp points are reduced as well. So if you *also* remove double RP, then isn't that essentially meaning things are going to be more "expensive"?

    Sorry if I'm being dense, perhaps I need an example of "Old" vs. "new" and without factoring in double RP and then we can see if it's really a lower "cost" or not.
    So in exchange for no more 2x refinement events, refinement costs on many items were cut in half right off the bat, noticeable exceptions being Runestones and Enchantments. Then afterwards they were cut down to 1/10th cost to match the 1/10th RP value for currency cap reasons. So a better way to think of it is that instead of having 2x refinement every couple months, we get a permanent 2x refinement value, by reducing costs by 1/2, on everything but Enchantments and Runestones.

    Enchantments and Runestones now no longer need the second enchantment between R7-R10, so a reduction in refinement costs exists there as well. No longer will it take 8R7's to get a R10, instead its just 1 enchantment from R1-R14. Make sense?
    Ah, OK, I see now.
    Thank you.
  • cilginordekcilginordek Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    @noworries#8859
    Will refining artifacts into other same type artifacts give 5x bonus regardless of artifacts type now?
    If yes, what is the point of artifact types anymore?
    If no, that means refining up artifacts will take a lot longer since feeding won't be possible, any plans to remedy that?
  • malakut#1916 malakut Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 340 Arc User



    Mark of Power, Stability, and Union


    Again we felt that having a different mark for the different artifacts wasn't enhancing the system and was just creating more items for players to track. These have been changed into a single item for each tier called an Enchantment Stone. Existing ones will convert over upon login and in the future only the new Enchantment Stones will drop.





    What about Marks of Uvar, Stig and Ild? They're marks too! Will they also be converted into Enchantment Stones and if so, would that mean that Relic Gear will now be easier to acquire and upgrade?
  • lordaeoloslordaeolos Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 167 Arc User
    strathkin said:

    :(
    It does place some limit's on Bonding which has some nervous and will reduce some of the augmentation provided currently at 95% at Rank 12. Still while they will limit their uptime to 50% many have also forgot to realize in future they may be expanded to Rank 14 and will still be a be a clear BiS Runestone for the game so your investments will not go to waist. It will also provide viable alternatives to them being the only one's people will level past rank 8.

    I think the benefit's will greatly improve gameplay as @noworries#8859 identified and I think many will find in time this is a positive step forward and if something causes you to take a deep breath while reading it...

    In time I do believe most will like many of the changes he's worked so hard to clearly articulate in the posts above. o:)

    No, do the Math with the tables provided. Bonding will only be BiS by about 2% for half the time, when bondings are not procced they will be way behind an augment (overall it should be about 65% worse to run a regular companion with bonding stones). Your new BiS will probably be an augment with 2 offense slots, and a defense slot (for eldritch, which will give you an extra 25.5%). No matter how you slice it, it will be a major reduction in DPS, which will make higher end content much more difficult (not sure how many of you have run ToNG with a full 16k group (I have) and it a beast now, imagine it with this nerf).
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  • tripsofthrymrtripsofthrymr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,624 Community Moderator
    The change sounds welcome.

    There's an overall reduction in the RP needed in the game, less bank space needed, no more waiting for double RP weekend. What's not to like?

    (I'll comment on the bonding change in the appropriate thread).
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  • niszdog#4897 niszdog Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    sounds like you are reinventing the wheel, to only end up with another wheel. Will content makers go through the effort of redoing every refinement guide? Or will new players who search for online resources just get confused trying to figure out what is relevant...
  • trollpc#6223 trollpc Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    Suggestion for bonding before it's too late (if it's not too late):

    Keep the uptime at 100%, just adjust the % of stats given closer to the auguments (slightly higher, why? so people don't switch to auguments only). This way both will be viable and used.
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