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Official Feedback Thread: Refining Refinement

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    plaviaplavia Member Posts: 540 Arc User
    1) inventory space is big problem. for everry half hour of play i m forced to stop 5min for micro refining. I think most ppl will appreciate this change if they know it will give us more space in the inventory.

    2) cleric depend on bonding companion more than others. the bonding change will reduce DC damage by ~30%.
    cleric are allready the weakest DPS class and it will make daily grind and progress very difficult
    augment does not share power and its uselss for cleric.
    please consider update DC damage so will not be forced to ask help all the time

    3) if all enchants availble at rank 1 and none drops...
    CTA got nothing to offer
    quatermaster is main utilty used and will offer nothing
    what should we donate to the guild mimic? it's already one of the most demanding currency

    4)overall with no need of extra enchant when refining, enchants prices will drop by ~80%.
    it will give new players easier access as today BiS player worth thousends of $ and looks way far
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    ravenskyaravenskya Member Posts: 1,891 Arc User
    @noworries#8859

    Stupid question - why is all of this hidden under the preview shard and not in the announcements section of the forum. It seems like a pretty important "Announcement"
    Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold"
    Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
    Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP

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    patruciuspatrucius Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    Now that I've cooled down from the initial shock and frustration after reading the announcement, I think it's time to offer some constructive criticism.

    The change to RP being a single pool that everything goes into is a good one, and is very close to what players have been requesting for years now. However, the way the change affects the refinement of artifacts (and to a slightly lesser extent enchantments) is far from ideal. The removal of both double RP events and the matching bonus for enchantments/artifacts makes refining those items significantly more of a grind than previously. It sounds like artifacts will take 500,000 RP to refine to mythic in the new system, which doesn't seem terrible until you realize that 500k RP in the new system is an entire stack of Blood Rubies, 5 stacks of Black Opals, or 20 stacks of lesser refining stones, and this is all per-artifact, so multiply those numbers by 4 per character. Furthermore, the best way to refine enchantments (at least single-stat ones) is to use rank 3-7 enchantments of the same type, which will no longer be possible in the new system.

    I propose that the RP costs for artifacts be halved again (down to 250,000 in the new system) and the cost of refining single-stat enchantments and runestones be halved to compensate for the loss of the feeder system and matching bonus respectively.

    On the topic of the bonding nerf... the time for that was back in... what was it, mod 8? When bondings were "fixed", not now, after everyone and their mother has invested in sets of rank 12 bonding runestones. Furthermore, although y'all say that you don't want to make bondings irrelevant with this nerf, it seems that you've done even worse job of that you did with keeping Dread/Vorpal enchants relevant after the weapon enchant rework (those were/are still relevant in some cases, just not most), as it seems that bondings are going to be taking a backseat to having an augment companion. The worst part about this nerf is that players lose not only their investment into their bonding runestones, but also the investment into the companion itself, many of us took an active companion to legendary that had a worthless active bonus which are now going to be useless after the nerf. And not only do we lose the investment in that legendary companion, but also the obscene sums of money spent on new life/loyal companion gear, or the ridiculous amount of hours spent grinding for +4s from the Illusionist's Gambit, because only some of that gear will transfer over to new companions, if we're lucky and it takes any of the same gear.

    The new mark of potency costs for weapon/armor enchantments are also rather worrying, while that change won't affect anyone who already has transcendant enchants, for players who don't yet it seems as though upgrading will be at least as prohibitively expensive in the new system, if not even more so, despite the removal of the requirement for extra copies of the enchantment to upgrade from ranks 7, 8, and 9.
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    lstalkerllstalkerl Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1 Arc User
    so what happens with dragon hord enchantments and WANDERER'S FORTUNE what will they do for us ?
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    beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    ravenskya said:

    Stupid question - why is all of this hidden under the preview shard and not in the announcements section of the forum. It seems like a pretty important "Announcement"

    Because it's *not* going live immediately. Who can say if some proposed changes may not even be as harsh as they look now.

    It's not hidden. People are spreading the word, getting others to come and comment, apparently even encouraging people who don't even play this game to come and parrot a statement for them.

    Given the nature of the proposed changes, the existence of these threads was going to spread through the community like wildfire. If you never interact with the community, you might make some poorly informed decisions, but people who don't interact with the community are prone to make poorly informed decisions anyway.
    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
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    rafaeldarafaelda Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 666 Arc User
    Will this new currency be bound on acount ? or toon ?
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    meraks#0999 meraks Member Posts: 100 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    rafaelda said:

    Will this new currency be bound on acount ? or toon ?

    BtC. But the items that get turned into the currency will be as before (the gemstones will still be BtC BtA or unbound, just once you turn them into RP Currency, that will not be tradeable).
    XBOX GT @ Merak Starborne
    Fyre, Eyce & Wynd
    Ladies of Neverwinter
    I stopped believing this morning; Journey is going to be PISSED.
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    beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    rafaelda said:

    Will this new currency be bound on acount ? or toon ?

    By character once you convert items, but not prior (depending on the nature of the item).

    I think people are missing the fact that RP still arrives in your bag as stones and gear, which you process into a usable format. You can still move the items provided they're not BtC.
    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
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    mjonismjonis Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 146 Arc User

    Believe it or not, the Sharandar and Dread Ring quests award fixed quantities of RP, though the exact denominations of stones are variable. This is easy to convert to new values. So is anything like HE rewards where there's a fixed reward like one rank 5 enchant (though there also appears to be little reason to change most HE rewards as long as they don't give obsolete items).

    Other areas where RP is randomized, such as HE rewards that grant resonance stones of variable quality (or potentially none), would have to be converted to use the new stones, in equivalent values. That's a little more complicated but I'd expect to see the replacement as a chance at peridots and also some higher value stones, not peridots across the board.

    There are other things I would like to know, like what the coffer credit values of these stones will look like for SH Gems requirements.

    Do they? The DR and Sharandar ones? I could've sworn that the weekly Sharandar claims you get a certain resonance stone as a reward, yet it's very rare that you get that stone at all. Same with DR weekly.

    Although perhaps DR was fixed in mod 12, but I just ran Sharandar and didn't get what the Quest giver claimed it would give.
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    mjonismjonis Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 146 Arc User
    silence1x said:

    mjonis said:

    4) What's going to be Cryptic's new moneymaker now that basically bank slots and bags aren't needed?

    Coal Wards

    Yes, see that now. Ugh.
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    toriofthehordetoriofthehorde Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    Oh...where to begin. I don't mind changes in a game. But you guys have slowly made huge changes over the past couple yrs this game has been on Xbox. Un popular changes. I'm so frustrated right now. Nerf bondings...seriously. you guys made the bondings what they are now "we need to change it" after ppl have worked their asses off to get these up. So now What? If u nerf this then what happens to the dps output? Hmmm will my toon even make it through CN? Lol... I stayed after u guys ran so many ppl off back in mod 6. I weathered the storm. I have stayed through out ur crappy nerfs.. and now another bomb.. ur messing with refinement. Grt job. That's one way I can make some ad in this greedy game. As it is already the market is flooded with the same <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. It's impossible sell stuff. The ppl who purchase keys in this game and open boxes run the market. How do u expect the average Joe to be able to get anything in this game? Do u Devs actually play ur own game? How about u try it without spending any money. Let's see how far u go. Can u raise enough AD to buy a legendary mount? HELL NO.. if your worried about bag space then get rid of the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> we have to make room for when we run dailies. That eats up a ton of space. Wow that's a thought. There are many more ways to fix ur so called concerns with bag space. They way you guys are going about it is once again preventing ppl from Making ad in this game. Just so you guys know these changes aren't going to keep ppl. These newer ppl who are in the game rely on ppl in guilds to help them (VETERANS). So go ahead and run ppl out of your game by being greedy. Don't rely on new players. They will leave since there's barely anyone to help them. stop acting like you guys are heros. Your not in my book at this point . I'm ready to leave your game As well is my whole family and a lot of my friend's. You can be proud saying you have a million people playing the game. Yeah but how many actually stay and play continually and stay? I would love to know those stats.i run a guild and I can't get new ppl to stay. I give them stuff to help all the time. But bag space isn't the issue ..its not having AD. Even running daily dungeons etc for diamonds is like peanuts. I'm clearly frustrated. I generally don't like to get on here and complain. But I had to this time. I would hate to leave your game but I guess it's up in the air. The balls in your court. Sad thing is my alliance ,.. a ton of them are starting to play other games and ppl are following. Your loosing ppl as we speak. Plz reconsider what your doing. There are other ways to fix these things you guys want to without making it worse on your game players. This is serious stuff! You guys need to figure out a way for ppl to be able to make AD in a timely manner if they really want something. No one likes to work hard and feel like its meaningless.. I would love to explain more but I'm done with my soap box. Good luck guys!! Once again I hope u Make the right decision. Don't let greed get the best of u. You guys might destroy ur game on Xbox.
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    rhapsody2008rhapsody2008 Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    The game was designed in such a way that they forced people to grind for rank 12 bondings as the only viable option for YEARS. They had plenty of time to fix it or do proportional nerfs over time. They JUST added an extra Double refinement they don't normally have a month after their last one. AFTER They add a new bag slot and boast how that's to help everyone with space and collections etc etc.. now they are basically making it so you don't need all that space if your hundreds of different enchants / refinement options are being changed to currency. It's a slimy move to promote bag space and have thousands of ppl spend money / AD for more bags given the way the game is designed when you know full well you're plan is to remove all that need. For everyone who bought extra bank slots etc etc, now it's basically not needed if they remove it all. Not only that, while I'm thrilled not needing 2 enchants to level to the next tier, they havent given the formula for what rp points it'll take to level up an enchant, they said they would add to the reagents needed to balance out not needing a second enchant. What's the point value going to be? will my 600 peridots convert to RP points equal in value in the new system? Will they convert to a proportional scale of less than all my Sapphires? It's a slimy thing to do to drop that bomb a day before a double RP but still not give enough info for people to properly plan KNOWING people hoard for double RP days because up until the announcment that's how you've had your game run for the last 4+ years.
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    beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    mjonis said:

    Believe it or not, the Sharandar and Dread Ring quests award fixed quantities of RP, though the exact denominations of stones are variable. This is easy to convert to new values. So is anything like HE rewards where there's a fixed reward like one rank 5 enchant (though there also appears to be little reason to change most HE rewards as long as they don't give obsolete items).

    Other areas where RP is randomized, such as HE rewards that grant resonance stones of variable quality (or potentially none), would have to be converted to use the new stones, in equivalent values. That's a little more complicated but I'd expect to see the replacement as a chance at peridots and also some higher value stones, not peridots across the board.

    There are other things I would like to know, like what the coffer credit values of these stones will look like for SH Gems requirements.

    Do they? The DR and Sharandar ones? I could've sworn that the weekly Sharandar claims you get a certain resonance stone as a reward, yet it's very rare that you get that stone at all. Same with DR weekly.

    Although perhaps DR was fixed in mod 12, but I just ran Sharandar and didn't get what the Quest giver claimed it would give.
    There is a display bug where the quest reward shown will probably not be the stones you actually get.

    The bug has zero impact on the total RP you get because they always add up to the same *value*. Just do the math and you'll see.

    Likewise, the daily and weekly boxes of RP stones in Dread Ring always give the same number of points worth of stones, but in random types and denominations.

    Shockingly... this is just one of many ways in which the existing system is unnecessarily over-complicated.
    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
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    mebalz#9859 mebalz Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    >
    > Given the nature of the proposed changes, the existence of these threads was going to spread through the community like wildfire. If you never interact with the community, you might make some poorly informed decisions, but people who don't interact with the community are prone to make poorly informed decisions anyway.

    It has spread and people are MAD i would like to know what the actual drop in numbers will be by this time next week and probably more xbox adn PS4 than PC seems like a lot are already leaving I know me personally wont spend one more dime until they decide not to nerf the bondings since once that happens off to another game
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    rhapsody2008rhapsody2008 Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    Why are upgraded enchants/ runestones during this double RP now becoming bound to account for no reason? I've never had them stuck as bound to account after upgrading them... even if you used account boundenchants to 'feed' into other non bound ones. now it seems if you use a account bound enchant in any part of the refinement they are account bound?
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    morgrim66morgrim66 Member Posts: 47 Arc User
    All refinement items break down into a new currency called Refinement Points - like
    Refinement Points are used in leveling all types of refinement items - like
    No more needing to hoard refinement items - like
    Easier to use system and UI - like
    New Ranks: 2 for enchantments/runestones and 1 for armor and weapon enhancements - like but not looking forward to potency rune costs
    More RP drops, fewer specific enchantment drops. - unsure
    Changes to Bonding Runestone up time and bonus, other runestones adjusted as well - feel this is poorly considered and will be too disruptive to current player experience
    Morria Grim 16,133 DC
    Morgrim Orcbane 16,530 CW
    Bloodlust Barbie 15,646 OP Tank
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    terrify10terrify10 Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    RIP neverwinter, RIP the dream. Augments BiS, lets go back to mod 5, oh wait we still won't have the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ton of dungeons u took away from us. Quick everyone buy up all the cats on the AH cause it's the new meta. Kappa
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    pooplipspistonepooplipspistone Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    So, when are these changes suppose to be implemented on PS4?
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    kingelk71kingelk71 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    I understand that changes need to be made. But bondings are the one thing over powered or not that 99% of the base has made a priority. Now that will be thrown away nerfed at a higher level. Rp I'm ok with the changes to that, even level increase of enchantments is not terrible. But nerfing bondings. All I can say is WOW cryptic and thanks for wasting my money!
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    ptr0kspar0v#3262 ptr0kspar0v Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    > I would like to see some developers use F2P, no dev magic, start a new character and see how long it takes to get to max IL with no money input, then when you are done, feel free to change all the refinement things listed. Cya in a couple years.


    Totaly agree ^

    I antecipate my appologies for my hard words but i cant be negligent to a thread with this magnitude.

    Im trying really hard to understand whos the wise guy with such brilliant ideas concerning these harsh changes/nerfs on a pay to win game. As many have said here, the majority of your public spended at least once, real money with their upgrades. at least for a coal. Not counting the ones who spent more then the price equal to 10 other releasing games toguether.
    Its not hard and really comes to my thoughts that on a cloudy day, during a devs brainstorm on how to improve the game, suddenly one, with such a lack of creativity, propose great ideas capable of cutting their own throat. Cuz im sure there will be harsh numbers of mid/end game players quiting due to such big changes in a small period.
    Cant devs conclude that even fools like us players can get bored of being treated as fools?

    There are mil. Of people who bought more then any other game price of zen currency just for the matter of acquiring their runestones and their companion set. And now devs gna disdain and despise all the effort the players did for this game.

    Sorry but the truth is that the decision on nerfing the game once and in a while is in fact the most profitable option in a short period, with no need to develop content to equate and balance whatever is needed. The excuse of nerfing content that directly affects end gamers and mid gamers to extend the game content is purely a lazzy way, focused only on tryin to get more money with no effort from those mid/end game players.

    With all my sincerity.
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    bishopgorbishopgor Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    At last something to do with rps!
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    flatliner#0798 flatliner Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    Sry for my bad english, but you say Bonding Stones are too different to other Runestones and have to been put in one Line? Why not remove the other Runstones then? And let the Bondingstones liek they are.
    Its cost much top get them to 12 and now that? Sounds (for the Moment) like someone who try how fast can they make the Players to leave the Game.
    Rank 14 - ok. Not for Console Players, we not have all Played the Game for Years.
    Chance the refinement System - ok.
    Change the Bonding Stones and kick in the Nuts - sry but that is realy bad! Thanks for playing, thanks for the money, now move on and make place for others.....
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    ptr0kspar0v#3262 ptr0kspar0v Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    Double post, sry
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    panteleeleepanteleelee Member Posts: 289 Arc User
    @noworries

    What about refinement bags from leadership? will remain? if yes then what drops? if no then what leadership gives?

    Taylor DC/DO & AC Buff/Debuff - Guild Gutbusters Brigade - PVE
    May the Torm of Understanding guide us!
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    mansruin#9407 mansruin Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    So are these changes set in stone? I was planning on spending some more money on this game and need to know if I should save it for a different game and cut my losses with Neverwinter. I have spent too much time and too much money to have to rebuild my characters to suite your pocketbook. This is unacceptable.
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    bloodshotbeastbloodshotbeast Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    After reading in depth, this is horrible for us long term players. That is what this company has proved time and time again. Greed is the answer for them, forget about the quality of the game.

    RIP Neverwinter come Mod 12b. I give it no more than a year.
    Anyone remember when Neverwinter was on top of the free-to-play MMO list?
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    bostonian686bostonian686 Member Posts: 1 New User
    The refinement stuff I think is okay. Possibly a little too simplified but it will be nice to not have to hoard refinement. As far as the bonding runestones I really think this approach is going to annoy people and is definitely doing so for me. It's not the next it's how it's nerfed. I'm okay with an overall less percentage buff from bonding because it will affect everybody the same across the board. But with the whole 50% upkeep think that will mess up where people will be able to keep their armor pen at especially with striker companions, where people can keep there crit at and getting diminishing returns if they want to keep their crit high at all times. Most important just like different classes benefiting more from certain buffs in the game I foresee this making it to where some classes won't be affected as much by a decrease in armor pen and crit and just based off when classes use their big hits will take a different of nerf from this. I have always hated the thought of not having consistent stats but in over it with the sudden rings, but with this stats will be all over the place and I think it's a really bad way to nerf something. I hope they reconsider how they nerf it. Even if the percentage is even less than this one stated, I want consistent stats.
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    nirafelosnirafelos Member Posts: 113 Arc User

    @noworries

    What about refinement bags from leadership? will remain? if yes then what drops? if no then what leadership gives?

    He's said someplace at least once that those will remain and will drop unbound gemstones.
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