As someone who played when Augments were BIS and was thus lost investment when Bondings became BIS and has since invested in Bondings I'm actually OK with the idea of reducing the power of Bonding stones so that Augments become a viable alternative again.
However I will agree with the suggestion that instead of reducing the up time of Bondings it would be better to reduce the yield.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
why don't the Dev fix the balance between class.. the refinement system is just fine, Fix the bug, fix the use of power how it effects with the enchantment make it balance make it worth in any class how does each of the enchantments will effect each of the class.
Guys you have tons of things to improve on game play and tons of bugs need to be fixed... don't change anything yet or update the attachment rank from 12 to 14 ..mehh this is no use. we have enough on rank up. Just make something worth to play and fun.
for example maybe you can make the town where we come from a live, like my toon come from Silvanite.. so we can go back to our home have a quest to save our land or etc. A signature armor or sets which only come from our town.. its kinda cool when we all in PE can see and finds out that player comes from different town in neverwinter. etc etc etc
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bluebubbl3sMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 121Arc User
I am honestly not sure how i feel about this. I actually like 2xrp, and look forward to seeing how far my hoarding will stretch, to see what i can achieve... i think that it will be disappointing to have this taken away.
i also wonder, how this whole idea came about. so the official post says its to help new players. I then cannot help but ask myself, why do the new players get so much consideration? clearly, reading all of the comments on this discussion, the players who have been around for a long time (like myself) dont seem to be heard.
I could probably prove that over the three and a bit years that i have been playing this game, that i have spent some serious cash, mostly for fun opening lockboxes and to support a game i enjoy. I am somewhat insulted that my spending hasnt resulted in my game play being considered. But, somehow, some dude who has been playing for five minutes, who has probably spent a hundred dollars or so, gets a whole refinement rejig to make it easier for them.
So, having said that, my cynical brain is wondering where i have missed the opportunity for cryptic to make even more money out of people with these changes. i am still trying to figure that out.
what i am not looking forward to, is more people leaving the game because of crazy changes like this. It is a well known fact that people dont like change. it should be done gradually, incrementally, and measured so that people dont freak out. i dont look forward to recruiting more new players to my guild because half of the ones that i have come to know and care about have spat the dummy and left the game. that saddens me. and changes like this one will result in people quitting.
As someone who played when Augments were BIS and was thus lost investment when Bondings became BIS and has since invested in Bondings I'm actually OK with the idea of reducing the power of Bonding stones so that Augments become a viable alternative again.
However I will agree with the suggestion that instead of reducing the up time of Bondings it would be better to reduce the yield.
I still have my legendary and epic stones augments somewhere in my bank. The first ones..
Remember when the tokens upgrade could be bought at the merchant ? That is gone as well. No one i ask ,remembers it.
While everyone is crying about a supposed nerf (it's not, it's reblancing. Nerfing something does NOT give you something else in return), I am rather glad to see this happen. It will make the powercreep curve for new players a lot easier to manage.
lol what are we getting in return, fool? Nothing. The nerf was supported not by people that owned bondings and wanted them re balanced, it was by people that did not use them, for whatever reason, and felt that their opinion mattered so much that the whole game should be leveled around this opinion. You had the option to use them or not, same as everyone else. Nerfing them is not an option. Just cause you don't lose anything because you never put out, doesn't mean that those who do or did should get shafted.
if your argument against it is that you can't afford them, or don't have the time to grind for ad, guess what? U don't need them then. If it makes you feel uncomfty being left behind by players with bondings on, on those rare occasions you log on to play the game for a minute or two, deal with it. Why would u expect access to the same benefits as those who earned them.
If you are a new player, why should things be easier for you at our expense? The nerf to bondings in no way benefits new players. Powercreep curve??? wtf u mean. With or without bondings you still getting carried.
That is exactly what this will be, yet another alt killer. I am sorry but I have little faith that this will be thought through and implemented in a way that will benefit players, especially those that have invested time or money in the game. The nerf to bonding runestones in the technical link is beyond a "tone down". As someone in the other thread stated this is going to cause a lot of players to examine whether or not they want to stay in this game. (Their term was a little harsher). You guys have once again gone too far with your nerf hammer and are demonstrating that you are just fine punishing your players for playing the game.
How does this become a alt killer if we can still move unbound refining stones around before we turn them into points? The only difference I see (as promised in the post) is that we can now "salvage" our RP items for RP points at will and the refining itself becomes a lot easier and less time consuming (hopefully). We have yet to see how the reduced points given and needed plays out in comparison to the old system, but if its anything like they promised it should not be worse (I understand that their word doesn't calm some of you xD tbh me neither).
And lets be honest. Bonding stones are far too overpowered. They are very HAMSTER nice indeed, but overpowered. I'm happy that they actually try to match the other Runestones to its level, would have wished they hadn't done so by a nerf and instead scaled the others higher, but hey... I am sure they have their reasons. It sucks for those who spend a small fortune to get them, or just/will get them before this big update, but that's something to always keep in mind. This is a game that changes frequently based on its own small economy and demographic. Also a lot of it is just a well decorated gamble machine. I'm not saying players have no right to be mad, I've been around since beta release and I've been through all stages XD But really if you invest a lot of time and money into this game, do ask yourself first if you are willing to do so even if that means you might loose it within a week, because that is how they roll here. Anything can change and nothing is safe.
Overall I am not at all upset about this update, of course we will have to see how it really plays out once it pops up on preview and goes live but I see no reason to cry and yell off the rooftops just yet.
blazious11Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 331Arc User
Deleting double rp event and adding another kind is bad, and I would be happy to keep the original, and I see a very bad consequence:
People who wanted to change their neck, waist, artifakt could break those into the new one, giving around 57% progress during double rp, so changing ther neck and waist to rebalance their builds wasn't that bad. Now that's gone.
I suggest neck and waist artifakts give us always under double rp bonus just as weapons do.
I don't know how artifakts stand now, but refining a new míthic artifakt with breaking another míthic in it should give us a fair progress outside the double rp event.
My story is truly a grand tale! Of course, any story about me is going to be grand simply by virtue of the main character.
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turtlemanjayMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10Arc User
Will enchantments still contribute to the new RP currency? Will enchantments still drop as dungeon chest rewards?
I wonder: apart from what has been said, what will happen to Wanderer’s Fortune mount bonus?, what kind of drop will it give?.
I’ve also read “Dragon Hoard - will now drop gemstones (white pearl, peridot, etc.) Fey Blessing - Still drops enchantments” in the thread about technical details. Any reason to leave the fey blessing the same way?, or any particular reason to nerf the dragon hoard that way?.
I’d like to remind to devs about enchantments basic function is to be equipped in gear/weapons, even if they’re used in RP too. Well, they drop rank 5 for free right now when u’re lvl 70, or higher ranks can be got in lockboxes sometimes or bought (rank 7) from trade bars in the store in PE, as u know. The basic matter is: the only way to get them really 4 free is to drop those rank 5 and equip them in ur gear, as lockboxes suppose previous cash spent and trade bars come from lockboxes… According to what u say enchantments’re not dropping anymore in normal gameplay, and the way to get enchantments is to buy lvl 1 ranks in PE? and refine them all the way till the lvl u wish, even a lvl 5 rank when it can be dropped right now? O.o that’s a true waste of RP in the end, isn’t it?. Not to speak about when a player doesn’t have that much money… not the best seeing ur toons dressed in lvl 1 rank enchantments, when the previous options were much better, and perhaps, fair.
1)Why did you cut the RP necessary to upgrade something by 10 and at the same time cut the RP from refinement items by 10 too? I mean, the cost is the same in the end, so you just did that to deal with smaller numbers? That's it?
2)There are no more power/resonance/stability/thaumaturgic/union stones, right? There's only white pearls, peridots, aquamarine, flawless sapphire, black opal, blood ruby and brilliant diamond that you can convert to "refinement currency", right?
3)Following-up the questions above... You cut the RP cost to upgrade Artifacts and Artifacts Equipment by half, which is like an always double refinement, but can we still use artifacts as feeders? Because if we can't then it's actually more expensive than cheaper to upgrade artifacts even with half the RP. I mean, we have no more Power/Stability/Union farmed from Dread Ring neither Resonance from Heralds of Tiamat (Dragon Run) nor Thaumaturgic from Sharandar. Meanwhile the bulk of our farm will be Peridots which gives 5 times less RP than any lesser stone (this is mitigated by the RP requirement reduction, but it is far from being nullified). There's also Aquamarine, Flawless Sapphire, Black Opal, Blood Ruby and Brilliant Diamond of course, but those are pretty rare compared to the sheer amount of Lesser Stones we can farm before these changes arrive. My suggestion is you boost the drop rate of higher gemstones (Aquamarine, Flawless Sapphire, etc) or you boost the RP of peridots and white pearls. Can you do that?
4)As far as i understand refining Enchantments won't have RP requirements cut in half, only the Artifacts will have this cut, right? What enchants will have is refining straight from rank 7 to 10 (no more needing two rank 7 to build one 8, two 8 to build one 9, two 9 to build one 10 which would totalize eight rank 7). This is great, but only decreases costs from 7 to 10. Upgrading from 10 to 14 will be extremely hard if after these changes we can't get Thaumaturgic Stones from Sharandar's quests anymore. So what kind of gemstone will replace Thaumaturgic at the end of these quests?
I find it really funny all of the people who are complaining " I put real money in this game for just bonding runestones and now they are nerfed so I'm quiting." Games like this are always changing. Maybe next time you people can think of something else to sink your money into then things that could get nerfed. Which from the looks of it everything can be nerfed. Sooooo good luck.
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frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
Is there going to be a cap on RP?
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
I gotta look for an augment with defensive slots now, upgrade that, buy eldritch runestones for it, get new gear for it, new reinforcements for the gear, sell what I have and get new enchantments to rebalance all my stats.
Don't forget that if you give up your current debuff companion, you will lose those debuffs, which will in effect make the content even harder than before. This is mostly going to be an issue in FBI, MSP and ToNG, but losing all those debuffs will have a significant impact there.
Just my grain of salt but I believe VIP needs to be reworked if enchants are to be increased. Also, for non-VIP players, something needs to be done about pres wards/ coal ward prices....make them with professions or something. Prices are so through the roof I really don't feel like grinding for another 5M AD to get coal wards for the 1% chance, THIS this is not fun for me or others. Players need to feel like doing stuff is meaningful in-game not based on buying Zen.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
Okies, so I'm not entirely getting where this particular fear is coming from.
Assuming that we do still get various binding statuses of drops, but don't need to hoard everything for 2xRP, we crunch the character bound stuff where we get it. Same as ever, except it's not taking up bagspace.
Here is the issue - assuming you have unused refinement points on an alt, and enchants on a different alt. Not a problem...you move the enchants to the alt who has the refinement points - refine the enchant there and then move it back.
The problem is when you want to refine something that is character bound or something that will bind once you refine it.
Let's say I have an artifact or some gear on one alt, and refinement points on a different one. I would be stuck...unable to refine. Today I could copy unbound or account-bound stones from the alt to the one holding the artifact or gear, and upgrade it there.
The best solution IMO, would be to make refinement points an account-wide currency, just like Zen. That makes the system even smoother - no need to copy anything back and forth.
so RPs are now a currency? as in single character? as in the old system i saved all my RPs and put them onto an alt, pumped them into a thing and hit upgrade, the new system, i save all my RPs on my alts, put them onto one alt, calculate whats needed, comit that to the alt (adding to currency) and then upgrade.... and the old way was complex? so now if i mess up i end up with X RPs sat on an alt wasted, where right now i can send those few items over to another alt, you havnt actually added anything, we will still hord RPs, and send them where evers needed, we will stil have no bag space ever for "fear of commiting" because of how you guys love to suddenly pull a class appart. all you have done really is add a commit button locking those RPs to that character perminantly. right?
how about, and this is madness thinking i know.. but bear with me
how about enchantments have their own bag space like professions and pets? where they stack to 999 or something? so the bags we have are mirrored for enchants, because now...according to you... we have a billion green items to ID then "bank" the RPs from too...
personally right now i dont touch green or blue armor, because it doesnt stack, and i'll be damed if im getting 6 items and stopping playing to send them to an alt, to break them down to bank the RPs to that character, so no change there... still time consuming and worthless, enchants on the other hand? R5+ i keep only and pass them to an alt to hold until x2 where i then pool them onto the toon im working on, so really? no change there either, im still having no bag space ever, and now i have the added bonus of having to do the math before i bank the RPs on that toon... at least if the RP bank was account wide it would make sense... a little more than it does, or keep it as it is and mirror the bags for RPs, more bags more hoarding ability, the reason we all have 50 bags is for RPs.... nothing changes!
bondings on the other hand... how much do you Devs think a pet costs? not just the pet, but the gear also? well, my DCs pet all the gear is worth 60mil, thats everything, all in, 60mil.... and your going to just simply "take that away" ? so now i need a new pet, a new set of runestones that now go up to 14, so nothing i have will just slot in as a "make do for now" then my main pet has avenger gear, thats not around anymore....so... what your really saying is, and this is reading between the lines a little "go play something else" ?
reason this is my go to option is on my account its taken me 14 months to get my first +5 ring, (a joke to most i know, but bear with me) so RNG is not my strong suit, now i have to play Gambit, with almost no stats over and over and over and over.... to attempt to get an item worth a damn for my new pet?
so nerfing bondings, what does that really actually mean? that year you spent on working your pet to its level is worthless, the players time, a year of (for a lot of players a year is about right) is worthless, all the ADs spent on getting said pet to orrange is worthless, just to orrange is a mil, and thats not exactly pocket change, the pets are costly too, for the more desirable ones, fire arcons etc... the enchantments (often brutals) are expencive.... and we have to change them all now? because the new armor pen isnt fun to hit without bondings, its not a "natural achevement" with high IL, you have to work to get it, all the toons that have been fine tuned with pet, gear and insigs all have to be pulled appart and completely reworked, and now your toons trash and having to work dungeons for ADs...
so did you guys really think this over? and if you did, keep thinking a little longer, subtle hasnt been your strong suits and a slight nerf = destorying X item normally, buff augments, buff other runestones to match bondings... make us more ballenced though smoothing out the differences, not just hack at the problem till its so broken its not a problem anymore!
you should take a vote, who has bondings what level and what did it cost? then work out the nerf to pissed off ratio and then, dont do it!
every time you guys have an idea it normally means a complte rehaul for that class, now its every chatacter in the game!
sorry for the length of this post but....well.... NO isnt really strong enough in this case!
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
But i like the refinement system as it is, i do agree that beginners may feel cheated because of same quality refinement (power artifact into power artifact) and the fact that they miss double RP but when it comes to marks and thaumalurge stones i like the variety existing, the only problem i see is lots of stuff btc without reason, but the fact that i need a greater mark of power to an artifact of power is fun, not troubling.
man this is terrible, absolutely terrible. I have never once seen anybody in-game or on the forums complain that the current RP system is flawed or that it was too complicated. of course I'm just one person but in any case, any complexity that existed is being burnt to the ground in favor of appealing to new players that would probably quit the game before they reach level 50 anyway. like many other posters here have previously said, hoarding enchants and the like was actually pretty fun. there was a treasure hunter role playing feel to it. as far as inventory space goes, I have yet to buy even one runic bag and have no issues with spacing.
speaking of bondings, well this is just a slap in the face. 50% uptime as opposed to 100% for what reasons? where are bondings over performing? 16k premades that farm hati for mats? the same 16k premades joined together farming msva for guildy alts? also in compliance to those BIS players wishes, they needed something else to grind for and so we have 2 new ranks. im dreading my return to farming tier 2 content for salvage because my 3x12 bonding is no longer cutting it for paingiver idoling elitist speedrunners in fbi and msva/nsva. I have no issue with rank 12 eventually being replaced with higher ranks in time, but the time now just doesn't match up. there is no content that would even require 2 higher ranks. unlike some others, I didn't drop a dime for my bondings, I spent my time farming for them, yet I feel the same resentment right now.
Well, from a casual non-BIS player point of view the refinement changes look great. My (non-runic) bags will thank you.
Couple of questions:
Will the new Enchantment Stones drop from Dread Ring lairs instead of marks? (Also maybe rethink the name "Enchantment Stone", it's a bit confusing. Everyone's used to calling them marks, so what's wrong with that?)
Can one still buy rank 5 enchantments from Adventurer Seal Trader?
If there's not gonna be matching bonus from artifacts anymore, can the class artifacts (and others that can't be used to refine other artifacts) be made usable in refining other artifacts or convertable to refining points?
I honestly am not sure you listen to the majority of your fan base. The same players who have stuck by the game (even through things like the mod6 disaster), are the same players who are spending money and time in your game. These players are also the same ones who have built guilds and alliance's with one another, who share and pass down information from old players to new players alike. It's part of what makes the community of NW. The complexity of the game is what keeps a majority of the players playing. The grind included. You're going to take away a big part of the communication that happens between new players and veterans, and in the process confuse everyone with a new RP system 3-4 years into an established game and player base, not to mention all the websites (yours included) that aim to help those who care enough to google search "how to refine" in neverwinter. It's like being in school. When you first start out you don't expect to know very much if anything at all, but over time you learn. From yourself and from others. Word of mouth, forums, etc. It's no longer exciting when it's just a bland vanilla taste rather than moose tracks ice cream.
I remember when the bonding stones were being tested, and the players pointed out the flaws, but you promised that "It will give the players more variety, and better stats".... guess that went out the window. What happened?
I won't even get started with the bag issue. But why did I buy runic bags for all 6 of my toons? Because suckers are born everyday. It's highway robbery.
I hate to admit it but I have spend hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars supporting a game that I've loved and enjoyed since it was a beta, but it's a true slap in the face when bugs ( and I could list an entire page of the fixes that are needed in game, like when I put in 2 tickets about how my title, achievement and item never popped for completing MSVA without anyone dying, but you never even bothered to give me a response, nothing at all) never get fixed, yet you continuously release new content changing the game and causing more players to dump time and money into their builds. Sure new gear will be released, but you should never change what the game developers already put into the game. You need to balance the game ( add something to counter what you already implemented) not change its direction completely. Unless of course you're trying to drive all the veteran players out of the game, so you can get a fresh new customer base into a game that will be on its death bed if this update is implemented as such. It's already bad enough, that new players can get to end game stuff in a mere few months with minimum work comparatively. I'm still hoping and praying that ANY +5 ring drops for me, while 7 times out of 10 a new player gets back to back +5 rings their first few runs.
From a buyer perspective. This is a terriable move on so many levels. Just look at these threads. The ratio of pissed off people is 9 to 1 at best. I think it's time to take a step back and think about what your doing. I for one won't be spending a dime trying to recover my AA D.C. ( or any other character) After yet another substinacial nerf to my toons back page. New gear sure, new dungeons and skirmishes sure, new gems sure, but recovering from a set back that you're willingly implementing on 90% of your players, count me out. News flash, the players who don't have bonding stones are the players who don't spend time or ( in arc's case) money on the game. Which sadly equals no money for the company. Unless it runs on hopes and dreams, than you'll be fine.
Nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf. Never working. Cool
Please please. Rethink this decision on arc's behalf. Save the game.
Post edited by smokepro1 on
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I like this new concept of RP. The fact no one upgraded anything when not in double RP was clearly a design problem. I'll finally be able to get rid of all the stacks of enchants, RP stuff in 3 differents bind types and it'll free lots of space in my account overall. Having a huge stock of RP instead of hundreds of stacks, i love it!
I don't really know yet how it will impact feeders, matching values, and will see it on preview eventually, but that's less a concern for me since RP drops in so many ways now it's not the bottleneck anymore.
I'm more concerned about the upgrade to R14 and the huge cost involved. You'll now need a coa not only for weapon/armor enchants, but now also for regular enchants and runestones. And the coals wards comes only from Zen Market. Don't tell me about the prayers, i pray all days on 6 toons and i didn't got any coalescent in the past 9 months. 9 months. 9. And i'll need dozens of more to upgrade to R14. I don't talk about coas that drop from enchantment packs now, as the droprate seems to be the same as brilliant diamond, aka you won't see one.
So many wards needed, so many new mark, Ultimate marks (what's their cost?), on EVERY enchants is not very alt-friendly when the game just began to be more alt-friendly (campaign tokens, special dungeon drop and Chult gear for alts, bound to account stuff...). This is another step back.
So overall, i like the new concept of refinement, i wanted this for a long time, i'll finally be able to stock the fashion instead of the RP (since we still don't have a fashion tab...). I'm not sure about the R14. I guess it's a new goal to achieve, but i'd really want to see the cost of wards being reduced, because you need so much of them, it's just not possible. I'd ask to reverse the coalgate, but I guess won't happen...
About the bondings changes, I said what I think about it in the appropriate thread. I gave a "Like" overall to the dev post because it's mostly talking about RP, however I disapprove the bondings change.
Ok i know yall needed to do something to adjust bondings to a equivilant level with other types of companions,which is fine.But the cooldown on bondings now will render them useless.in extended fights ie:end game fights last mor than 15 seconds after that u lose all stats armpen power defenses tanks will lose aggro dps lose armpen to deal damage and ppl become squishy.How in any way are u gonna kill the souls in tomb at last boss if ur bondings are on cooldown u need to burst them fast or ur gonna get destroyed. Imo the nerf to the 95% from bondings to 65% is fine its the cooldown that is an issue.Take away icd and its still a good option as are the augments
Please Devs! If you have decided on nerfing bondings so be it but dont mess up with 100% uptime plzzz!!! It will kill bondings for 99% of people whose using them and render them useless. Hope you will head to people who will test this changes on preview and prove you that it will bring major havoc in builds and playstyles that none asked for. The beauty of MMOs are that you can have endless progression but what you are doing with the game it's just grind eternally just to maintain your position... that's very wrong approach and kills joy, fun and meaning to progression in the game. Game as it is now need tons of investing of time and recources to balance your stats and with that 50% uptime BS it will ruin whole system. Hope you will carefully reconsider as what is at stake... i dont want this game to die cause i enjoy it and have put much time and effort towards it... Listen to players or im afraid mod 12.5 will finish the rest 50% of player base that was left from mod 6...
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
when is this change taking place pls is it next mod or after maintanance
Not til 12.5, which is not even up on preview yet. It's too early to panic.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
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seridkalsenovMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 30Arc User
edited August 2017
now i can't say i agree or not but it's kinda hard to face after spent many years trying to upgrade bonding. I actually don't get super shocked on RP changes but the bonding it is. it will affect the performance of most DPSer in T3 dungeons and T3 raids meaning those T3 dungeon and some super hard hitting T2 bos like Egwd need to be readjust the dmg and bos durabiliy so a tank won't get 1 shotted really fast and it won't took 2hrs+ to finish .i will simply said devs will spent more time than just nerfing the bonding, i take the To9G dungeon as example. i did a run and it took around 1-2 hrs to finish that is with 2 support class 2 bis dps and 1 bis tank and all of them use bonding. but what happen if all of them only use augments and R12 eldritch bonus buff + leg companion only ???. no offense, but it will took more than 2 hrs to finish just only removing bonding. that is why some dungeon need to be reworked too if the bonding nerf is live it is equal to spent more time spent more money for the working dev teams and there is a possibility some players will rage quit so easily + elitism will increase. my final word i cant say i agree with RP change but i REALLY REALLY don't agree with bonding nerf.
Words are hard amirite?? People complaining refining higher ranks will be harder aren't paying attention. It says RP value will be reduced by a factor of ten AND progression will be halved. Value is the actual numerical worth, while progression refers to the relative difficulty of getting from 1-12...er... 1-14. From what i've read, max refining gear and enchantments will be easier, and you can do it whenever you want. It's a win/win people.
Save your energy for the bonding discussion, as that's a different story. But i will comment about that in the appropriate thread. But i get why so much of it landed here... words are hard AMIRITE?!?!? LOL
Comments
However I will agree with the suggestion that instead of reducing the up time of Bondings it would be better to reduce the yield.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
why don't the Dev fix the balance between class.. the refinement system is just fine, Fix the bug, fix the use of power how it effects with the enchantment make it balance make it worth in any class how does each of the enchantments will effect each of the class.
Guys you have tons of things to improve on game play and tons of bugs need to be fixed... don't change anything yet or update the attachment rank from 12 to 14 ..mehh this is no use. we have enough on rank up. Just make something worth to play and fun.
for example maybe you can make the town where we come from a live, like my toon come from Silvanite.. so we can go back to our home have a quest to save our land or etc. A signature armor or sets which only come from our town.. its kinda cool when we all in PE can see and finds out that player comes from different town in neverwinter. etc etc etc
i also wonder, how this whole idea came about. so the official post says its to help new players. I then cannot help but ask myself, why do the new players get so much consideration? clearly, reading all of the comments on this discussion, the players who have been around for a long time (like myself) dont seem to be heard.
I could probably prove that over the three and a bit years that i have been playing this game, that i have spent some serious cash, mostly for fun opening lockboxes and to support a game i enjoy. I am somewhat insulted that my spending hasnt resulted in my game play being considered. But, somehow, some dude who has been playing for five minutes, who has probably spent a hundred dollars or so, gets a whole refinement rejig to make it easier for them.
So, having said that, my cynical brain is wondering where i have missed the opportunity for cryptic to make even more money out of people with these changes. i am still trying to figure that out.
what i am not looking forward to, is more people leaving the game because of crazy changes like this. It is a well known fact that people dont like change. it should be done gradually, incrementally, and measured so that people dont freak out. i dont look forward to recruiting more new players to my guild because half of the ones that i have come to know and care about have spat the dummy and left the game. that saddens me. and changes like this one will result in people quitting.
Guild Leader - Valaurakari Ascension
VA is the creator and proud member of The Round Table Alliance
The first ones..
Remember when the tokens upgrade could be bought at the merchant ?
That is gone as well.
No one i ask ,remembers it.
if your argument against it is that you can't afford them, or don't have the time to grind for ad, guess what? U don't need them then. If it makes you feel uncomfty being left behind by players with bondings on, on those rare occasions you log on to play the game for a minute or two, deal with it. Why would u expect access to the same benefits as those who earned them.
If you are a new player, why should things be easier for you at our expense? The nerf to bondings in no way benefits new players. Powercreep curve??? wtf u mean. With or without bondings you still getting carried.
JUST NEED DIFFICULTY HARD !!!!!!!!!!!!!
And lets be honest. Bonding stones are far too overpowered. They are very HAMSTER nice indeed, but overpowered. I'm happy that they actually try to match the other Runestones to its level, would have wished they hadn't done so by a nerf and instead scaled the others higher, but hey... I am sure they have their reasons. It sucks for those who spend a small fortune to get them, or just/will get them before this big update, but that's something to always keep in mind. This is a game that changes frequently based on its own small economy and demographic. Also a lot of it is just a well decorated gamble machine. I'm not saying players have no right to be mad, I've been around since beta release and I've been through all stages XD But really if you invest a lot of time and money into this game, do ask yourself first if you are willing to do so even if that means you might loose it within a week, because that is how they roll here. Anything can change and nothing is safe.
Overall I am not at all upset about this update, of course we will have to see how it really plays out once it pops up on preview and goes live but I see no reason to cry and yell off the rooftops just yet.
People who wanted to change their neck, waist, artifakt could break those into the new one, giving around 57% progress during double rp, so changing ther neck and waist to rebalance their builds wasn't that bad.
Now that's gone.
I suggest neck and waist artifakts give us always under double rp bonus just as weapons do.
I don't know how artifakts stand now, but refining a new míthic artifakt with breaking another míthic in it should give us a fair progress outside the double rp event.
I wonder: apart from what has been said, what will happen to Wanderer’s Fortune mount bonus?, what kind of drop will it give?.
I’ve also read “Dragon Hoard - will now drop gemstones (white pearl, peridot, etc.)
Fey Blessing - Still drops enchantments” in the thread about technical details. Any reason to leave the fey blessing the same way?, or any particular reason to nerf the dragon hoard that way?.
I’d like to remind to devs about enchantments basic function is to be equipped in gear/weapons, even if they’re used in RP too. Well, they drop rank 5 for free right now when u’re lvl 70, or higher ranks can be got in lockboxes sometimes or bought (rank 7) from trade bars in the store in PE, as u know. The basic matter is: the only way to get them really 4 free is to drop those rank 5 and equip them in ur gear, as lockboxes suppose previous cash spent and trade bars come from lockboxes… According to what u say enchantments’re not dropping anymore in normal gameplay, and the way to get enchantments is to buy lvl 1 ranks in PE? and refine them all the way till the lvl u wish, even a lvl 5 rank when it can be dropped right now? O.o that’s a true waste of RP in the end, isn’t it?. Not to speak about when a player doesn’t have that much money… not the best seeing ur toons dressed in lvl 1 rank enchantments, when the previous options were much better, and perhaps, fair.
1)Why did you cut the RP necessary to upgrade something by 10 and at the same time cut the RP from refinement items by 10 too? I mean, the cost is the same in the end, so you just did that to deal with smaller numbers? That's it?
2)There are no more power/resonance/stability/thaumaturgic/union stones, right? There's only white pearls, peridots, aquamarine, flawless sapphire, black opal, blood ruby and brilliant diamond that you can convert to "refinement currency", right?
3)Following-up the questions above... You cut the RP cost to upgrade Artifacts and Artifacts Equipment by half, which is like an always double refinement, but can we still use artifacts as feeders? Because if we can't then it's actually more expensive than cheaper to upgrade artifacts even with half the RP. I mean, we have no more Power/Stability/Union farmed from Dread Ring neither Resonance from Heralds of Tiamat (Dragon Run) nor Thaumaturgic from Sharandar. Meanwhile the bulk of our farm will be Peridots which gives 5 times less RP than any lesser stone (this is mitigated by the RP requirement reduction, but it is far from being nullified). There's also Aquamarine, Flawless Sapphire, Black Opal, Blood Ruby and Brilliant Diamond of course, but those are pretty rare compared to the sheer amount of Lesser Stones we can farm before these changes arrive. My suggestion is you boost the drop rate of higher gemstones (Aquamarine, Flawless Sapphire, etc) or you boost the RP of peridots and white pearls. Can you do that?
4)As far as i understand refining Enchantments won't have RP requirements cut in half, only the Artifacts will have this cut, right? What enchants will have is refining straight from rank 7 to 10 (no more needing two rank 7 to build one 8, two 8 to build one 9, two 9 to build one 10 which would totalize eight rank 7). This is great, but only decreases costs from 7 to 10. Upgrading from 10 to 14 will be extremely hard if after these changes we can't get Thaumaturgic Stones from Sharandar's quests anymore. So what kind of gemstone will replace Thaumaturgic at the end of these quests?
The problem is when you want to refine something that is character bound or something that will bind once you refine it.
Let's say I have an artifact or some gear on one alt, and refinement points on a different one. I would be stuck...unable to refine. Today I could copy unbound or account-bound stones from the alt to the one holding the artifact or gear, and upgrade it there.
The best solution IMO, would be to make refinement points an account-wide currency, just like Zen. That makes the system even smoother - no need to copy anything back and forth.
how about, and this is madness thinking i know.. but bear with me
how about enchantments have their own bag space like professions and pets? where they stack to 999 or something? so the bags we have are mirrored for enchants, because now...according to you... we have a billion green items to ID then "bank" the RPs from too...
personally right now i dont touch green or blue armor, because it doesnt stack, and i'll be damed if im getting 6 items and stopping playing to send them to an alt, to break them down to bank the RPs to that character, so no change there... still time consuming and worthless, enchants on the other hand? R5+ i keep only and pass them to an alt to hold until x2 where i then pool them onto the toon im working on, so really? no change there either, im still having no bag space ever, and now i have the added bonus of having to do the math before i bank the RPs on that toon... at least if the RP bank was account wide it would make sense... a little more than it does, or keep it as it is and mirror the bags for RPs, more bags more hoarding ability, the reason we all have 50 bags is for RPs.... nothing changes!
bondings on the other hand... how much do you Devs think a pet costs? not just the pet, but the gear also? well, my DCs pet all the gear is worth 60mil, thats everything, all in, 60mil.... and your going to just simply "take that away" ? so now i need a new pet, a new set of runestones that now go up to 14, so nothing i have will just slot in as a "make do for now" then my main pet has avenger gear, thats not around anymore....so... what your really saying is, and this is reading between the lines a little "go play something else" ?
reason this is my go to option is on my account its taken me 14 months to get my first +5 ring, (a joke to most i know, but bear with me) so RNG is not my strong suit, now i have to play Gambit, with almost no stats over and over and over and over.... to attempt to get an item worth a damn for my new pet?
so nerfing bondings, what does that really actually mean? that year you spent on working your pet to its level is worthless, the players time, a year of (for a lot of players a year is about right) is worthless, all the ADs spent on getting said pet to orrange is worthless, just to orrange is a mil, and thats not exactly pocket change, the pets are costly too, for the more desirable ones, fire arcons etc... the enchantments (often brutals) are expencive.... and we have to change them all now? because the new armor pen isnt fun to hit without bondings, its not a "natural achevement" with high IL, you have to work to get it, all the toons that have been fine tuned with pet, gear and insigs all have to be pulled appart and completely reworked, and now your toons trash and having to work dungeons for ADs...
so did you guys really think this over? and if you did, keep thinking a little longer, subtle hasnt been your strong suits and a slight nerf = destorying X item normally, buff augments, buff other runestones to match bondings... make us more ballenced though smoothing out the differences, not just hack at the problem till its so broken its not a problem anymore!
you should take a vote, who has bondings what level and what did it cost? then work out the nerf to pissed off ratio and then, dont do it!
every time you guys have an idea it normally means a complte rehaul for that class, now its every chatacter in the game!
sorry for the length of this post but....well.... NO isnt really strong enough in this case!
speaking of bondings, well this is just a slap in the face. 50% uptime as opposed to 100% for what reasons? where are bondings over performing? 16k premades that farm hati for mats? the same 16k premades joined together farming msva for guildy alts? also in compliance to those BIS players wishes, they needed something else to grind for and so we have 2 new ranks. im dreading my return to farming tier 2 content for salvage because my 3x12 bonding is no longer cutting it for paingiver idoling elitist speedrunners in fbi and msva/nsva. I have no issue with rank 12 eventually being replaced with higher ranks in time, but the time now just doesn't match up. there is no content that would even require 2 higher ranks. unlike some others, I didn't drop a dime for my bondings, I spent my time farming for them, yet I feel the same resentment right now.
Couple of questions:
What will happen to Quartermaster Enchantsments? What will they drop?
I remember when the bonding stones were being tested, and the players pointed out the flaws, but you promised that "It will give the players more variety, and better stats".... guess that went out the window. What happened?
I won't even get started with the bag issue. But why did I buy runic bags for all 6 of my toons? Because suckers are born everyday. It's highway robbery.
I hate to admit it but I have spend hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars supporting a game that I've loved and enjoyed since it was a beta, but it's a true slap in the face when bugs ( and I could list an entire page of the fixes that are needed in game, like when I put in 2 tickets about how my title, achievement and item never popped for completing MSVA without anyone dying, but you never even bothered to give me a response, nothing at all) never get fixed, yet you continuously release new content changing the game and causing more players to dump time and money into their builds. Sure new gear will be released, but you should never change what the game developers already put into the game. You need to balance the game ( add something to counter what you already implemented) not change its direction completely. Unless of course you're trying to drive all the veteran players out of the game, so you can get a fresh new customer base into a game that will be on its death bed if this update is implemented as such. It's already bad enough, that new players can get to end game stuff in a mere few months with minimum work comparatively. I'm still hoping and praying that ANY +5 ring drops for me, while 7 times out of 10 a new player gets back to back +5 rings their first few runs.
From a buyer perspective. This is a terriable move on so many levels. Just look at these threads. The ratio of pissed off people is 9 to 1 at best. I think it's time to take a step back and think about what your doing. I for one won't be spending a dime trying to recover my AA D.C. ( or any other character) After yet another substinacial nerf to my toons back page. New gear sure, new dungeons and skirmishes sure, new gems sure, but recovering from a set back that you're willingly implementing on 90% of your players, count me out. News flash, the players who don't have bonding stones are the players who don't spend time or ( in arc's case) money on the game. Which sadly equals no money for the company. Unless it runs on hopes and dreams, than you'll be fine.
Nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf. Never working. Cool
Please please. Rethink this decision on arc's behalf. Save the game.
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I'll finally be able to get rid of all the stacks of enchants, RP stuff in 3 differents bind types and it'll free lots of space in my account overall. Having a huge stock of RP instead of hundreds of stacks, i love it!
I don't really know yet how it will impact feeders, matching values, and will see it on preview eventually, but that's less a concern for me since RP drops in so many ways now it's not the bottleneck anymore.
I'm more concerned about the upgrade to R14 and the huge cost involved. You'll now need a coa not only for weapon/armor enchants, but now also for regular enchants and runestones. And the coals wards comes only from Zen Market. Don't tell me about the prayers, i pray all days on 6 toons and i didn't got any coalescent in the past 9 months. 9 months. 9. And i'll need dozens of more to upgrade to R14. I don't talk about coas that drop from enchantment packs now, as the droprate seems to be the same as brilliant diamond, aka you won't see one.
So many wards needed, so many new mark, Ultimate marks (what's their cost?), on EVERY enchants is not very alt-friendly when the game just began to be more alt-friendly (campaign tokens, special dungeon drop and Chult gear for alts, bound to account stuff...). This is another step back.
So overall, i like the new concept of refinement, i wanted this for a long time, i'll finally be able to stock the fashion instead of the RP (since we still don't have a fashion tab...). I'm not sure about the R14. I guess it's a new goal to achieve, but i'd really want to see the cost of wards being reduced, because you need so much of them, it's just not possible. I'd ask to reverse the coalgate, but I guess won't happen...
About the bondings changes, I said what I think about it in the appropriate thread. I gave a "Like" overall to the dev post because it's mostly talking about RP, however I disapprove the bondings change.
If you have decided on nerfing bondings so be it but dont mess up with 100% uptime plzzz!!! It will kill bondings for 99% of people whose using them and render them useless.
Hope you will head to people who will test this changes on preview and prove you that it will bring major havoc in builds and playstyles that none asked for.
The beauty of MMOs are that you can have endless progression but what you are doing with the game it's just grind eternally just to maintain your position... that's very wrong approach and kills joy, fun and meaning to progression in the game.
Game as it is now need tons of investing of time and recources to balance your stats and with that 50% uptime BS it will ruin whole system.
Hope you will carefully reconsider as what is at stake... i dont want this game to die cause i enjoy it and have put much time and effort towards it...
Listen to players or im afraid mod 12.5 will finish the rest 50% of player base that was left from mod 6...
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http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Video Game Elitist << about elitism if someone don't know what it is.
Save your energy for the bonding discussion, as that's a different story. But i will comment about that in the appropriate thread. But i get why so much of it landed here... words are hard AMIRITE?!?!? LOL