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'Message From The Neverwinter Management Team' - Questions.

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    urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    edited May 2017

    @jumpingmorks.

    You want me to bring proofs that x players where guilt,?
    But I can ask you to provide proofs/facts/data that these players where innocent

    So I can write my assumptions, and you can do also write assumption,. And neither you, neither me have access to game logs..

    Next, when comes baning, there are 2 type players.

    1) guilt(bot users, game logs prove guilty).
    2) innocent Game logs prove that they didn't use bots.

    And there is no middle ground.

    Now funny party, how you defy which player is legitimate and which player is not.
    Also do u think that when player reach x GS do not use bot, then u are wrong.




    Game logs have to be interpreted by people who are fallible. You're under the assumption that Cryptic carefully analyzes their data and knows enough about their game to properly discern the difference between someone that is botting and someone that is not. They've repeatedly shown this is not the case. Pretty much every game studio that starts talking about bans being that simple because of logs is outright lying. There is plenty of grey area in their interpretation outside of extreme examples.

    In FPSes devs face the same problem where it's really easy to catch someone that's using an aimbot without trying to hide it. If someone is just helicopter snapping and hitting 100% of their shots you'll catch them really easily. Then there are players who use aimbots that are so subtle that they're hard to spot at LANs even. Then there are players that are just so good it looks like they're aimbotting. Even if you've got data on players there's always a human element to the process involved in determining whether a ban is justified and humans can screw up.
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    jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    I'd like to add that I hope nothing I have said comes across as advice. I have no idea how to run a business, let alone a successful one, and I have no idea how the feelings I have mentioned here could be translated into a process that would improve customer experience next time a ban wave is needed.

    But what I do hope is that anything I say and how I feel, as well as all the feedback everyone gives and has given in this thread is able to be used and translated contrsuctively into a better experience for all of us, players and Crytpic alike.
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    ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited May 2017
    How you feel is advice as it would be best for the devs to not do something which makes you feel the way you do going forward. ;)
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    hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,181 Arc User

    So, two guys are walking along a sidewalk, when one guys warns his friend, "Hey watch out! That is dog poo."
    The first guy disagrees, "No, its not. That isn't dog poo."

    The first guy replies, "Sure it is. Go smell it."
    "What? you have got to be kidding me!" the second guy objects.
    "No really, go smell it."
    "Well, it smells like dog *poo*. But it could just be that I am smelling other piles of dog poo nearby." The second man quips.

    "Well then, touch it." the first man insists.
    "What? No way!"
    "Yes, touch it, if you want to know its dog poo."
    "Well, it certainly feels like dog poo. But, it could be that someone dropped some chocolate pudding." The second man replies.

    "Well then, taste it." The first man demands.
    "No! I absolutely will not taste it." The second man indignantly says.
    "NO, go taste it. That will tell you for sure if its dog poo." The first man answers.
    *Smack smack smack* "Well, it certainly tastes like dog poo!" The second man sneers.

    "Ah well then," the first man smiles, "I was right then. Good thing we didn't step in it."
    "Yeah," the second man replies.

    End of story

    I can say, that is one of best examples...


    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
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    hamsterioustoon#6983 hamsterioustoon Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    Edit: double post
    Post edited by hamsterioustoon#6983 on
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    hamsterioustoon#6983 hamsterioustoon Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    It never stops to amaze me the enduring perception that some people have about characters.They stick a label ,a tag on one ,and they keep this tag for ever
    Long time player=no botter, reknown forumer=no botter, youtuber=no botter known guild officer/leader=no botter.

    It is if the BiS players have no use for botting:While they need to keep up and stay everytime at BiS level.

    Some forumers here defended the botters ,taking their word that do not and did not botted: With out proofs.Yet, at the same time they will DEMAND proof from the other side.
    I will answer then : go to the "other " forum I made similar ,in theme and essense ,posts there.And?
    Well after the initial "troll" tag ,I got people (the banned ones) started talking:
    "Ok I dont say that I am 100% legit .." "I definitelly did not bot the last year " "Is botting in foundry ,consider botting ?" "Ok I might did some questionable things in foundry but that was years ago" "i am legit ,just i never turn NW off ,it runs for days " "my kids play my accoubt so NW is always on 24/7" etc etc....

    From the six people that responded to my post ,5 were violated TOS in one way or another and admitted it.only one guy seemed completely innocent.
    So there go your numbers for the one that asked for them.

    Ofcourse this is cryptic's fault:But from the opposite side.It should had swang the ban bat hard years ago:Now the offenders take for granted that what ever they do,if they orchestrated a little whine charade-parade in the forums ,and play the victim ,they will get released loose all over again.

    Hey with all the naive comments I read up here,guys might be right after all.



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    jaegernljaegernl Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 455 Arc User
    edited May 2017

    People never stop to amaze me.They put tags on someone ,"good" ,"bad" ,"botter","legit" and somehow they think these terms are rock solid per infitum.
    The assumption BiS=no botter ,reknown forumer=no botter ,dedicated player=no botter ,always cracks me up.

    Some people asked for proof...when are they that take for granted the words of the banned people.Like banned people are above morals and critisism.
    Well for the sake of discussion I made a similar post to the "other " forum.And said more or less the same thing.After i got the troll definition,people started to talk.
    I mean the banned ones.Some examples of their logic
    "I am not 100% legit ,but " "I surely have not botted the last year " "I maybe crossed the line during foundry days " "is botting in foundry botting? " "using an invoking script should not consider botting " " ok my kids use my account and my acount stays open the whole day "- honest translation,I bot but i dont want to tell it.
    "I am a legit player i do nothing wrong ,i just have the custon not to close NW for any reason ,it just stays for ever open " etc etc...

    You don't believe me?go there and check it out.

    Bottom line: cause cryptic did not swinged the nerf bat hard when had do (resonator etc ) and because every time it catches "prominent members of the community" ,it forgives them (the pattern is there ,check one famous GWf case) people take for granted that a little drama and orchestrated cry dance ,accompanied by their naive friends,will get them out of ban confinment.
    Well maybe they are right after all.

    Why not?When the officer of a known guild that its core of players destroyed NW economy with the resonator exploit ,comes up here and talks about legit players,sure everything is possible.

    As for some known players that took and bite the "I am innocent " bone ,they really made me sad.
    I thought they were less naive.Hard fact,they are not.

    Once again, we meet a player that completely missed the point of the entire thread. It's like they don't read, but just want to leave a diarrhea of words.

    You have examples of people that botted, and have been banned for doing so, and, after the fact try to legitimize their behaviour. That's great. But your logic is so flawed it's bordering stupidity. Some have done that, therefor all have done it. You're basicly making the argument for genocide. Stop it.

    Please, stay out of this thread and stop trying to derail it. Stop it.
    Isaac the Adequate - Level 70 Oath of Protection Paladin
    Aurelius the Awkward - Level 70 Pathfinder Ranger
    We have looked into reports of players experiencing connection problems and have been unable to identify any server, data center, or client-side issues. We believe this may be ISP related.
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    jaegernljaegernl Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 455 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    This is about as bad as the people trying to blame all the bad sides of Neverwinter on the 'whales'. We always need a bad guy. We always need to externalize the guilt. First it's the supposed 'whales' driving everything. Now it's the 'botters' - apparently everyone that's BiS, per an earlier comment - that have been ruining things.

    Newsflash, ladies. You can't have both.
    Isaac the Adequate - Level 70 Oath of Protection Paladin
    Aurelius the Awkward - Level 70 Pathfinder Ranger
    We have looked into reports of players experiencing connection problems and have been unable to identify any server, data center, or client-side issues. We believe this may be ISP related.
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    gabrieldourdengabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    weaver936 said:

    A couple points" Just because everyone is doing it. doesn't make it right... just because the top guilds/alliances are doing it, doesn't make it right... just because you don't like the "slow way" of doing things and the grind is "unbearable or too much.. does not mean you have the right to use unfair things to make it faster or easier. And just because you think your buddy is fun and friendly and generaous doesn't mean they weren't breakign the rules.

    Just because the a Community is SO corrupt and crooked doesn't mean the Devs should ignore the problem. and just because they have decided to have MERCY on some people.. and show a but of GRACE doesn't mean they are admitting they did something wrong.

    It's really a shameful state of affairs when the Devs get criticized for being merciful or giving the probabtionary or grace period.

    If you HAVE NOT read the TERMS OF SERVICE and say that the Devs haven't said what you can and can't do to avoid getting banned.. then you have no right to claim they haven't made the rules clear. At some point.. common sense should tell you that something like dieing and wall hacking to get back into the boss fight, when every other dungeon doesn't allow that is probably an Exploit... expecially when the Devs already tried to fix stop that from happening previously (just an example).

    Just because people are so clueless about simple Morality does not mean taht the Devs are to blame for the bans... *rolls eyes*

    I criticized you before in other threads but here you nailed it down. The devs may have made a mistake here or there and that has to be corrected but I don't see reasons to complain so loudly.
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    loboguildloboguild Member Posts: 2,371 Arc User
    jaegernl wrote: »
    Once again, we meet a player that completely missed the point of the entire thread. It's like they don't read, but just want to leave a diarrhea of words.

    You have examples of people that botted, and have been banned for doing so, and, after the fact try to legitimize their behaviour. That's great. But your logic is so flawed it's bordering stupidity. Some have done that, therefor all have done it. You're basicly making the argument for genocide. Stop it.

    Please, stay out of this thread and stop trying to derail it. Stop it.

    It's not only that, most of the quote are made up. I'm sure these are things caught botters *could* say, but unfortunately it hasn't been posted on the source referred to. At least not publicly afaik.​​
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    armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User
    Why are players arguing between themselves about what is and what isn't botting? And why is it always the same old faces doing the arguing and taking their usual pro or anti positions?

    This is a feedback thread - not facebook.
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

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    jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited May 2017

    People never stop to amaze me.They put tags on someone ,"good" ,"bad" ,"botter","legit" and somehow they think these terms are rock solid per infitum.
    The assumption BiS=no botter ,reknown forumer=no botter ,dedicated player=no botter ,always cracks me up.

    Some people asked for proof...when are they that take for granted the words of the banned people.Like banned people are above morals and critisism.
    Well for the sake of discussion I made a similar post to the "other " forum.And said more or less the same thing.After i got the troll definition,people started to talk.
    I mean the banned ones.Some examples of their logic
    "I am not 100% legit ,but " "I surely have not botted the last year " "I maybe crossed the line during foundry days " "is botting in foundry botting? " "using an invoking script should not consider botting " " ok my kids use my account and my acount stays open the whole day "- honest translation,I bot but i dont want to tell it.
    "I am a legit player i do nothing wrong ,i just have the custon not to close NW for any reason ,it just stays for ever open " etc etc...

    You don't believe me?go there and check it out.

    Bottom line: cause cryptic did not swinged the nerf bat hard when had do (resonator etc ) and because every time it catches "prominent members of the community" ,it forgives them (the pattern is there ,check one famous GWf case) people take for granted that a little drama and orchestrated cry dance ,accompanied by their naive friends,will get them out of ban confinment.
    Well maybe they are right after all.

    Why not?When the officer of a known guild that its core of players destroyed NW economy with the resonator exploit ,comes up here and talks about legit players,sure everything is possible.

    As for some known players that took and bite the "I am innocent " bone ,they really made me sad.
    I thought they were less naive.Hard fact,they are not.

    I don't know who botted, who bots and who doesn't bot and/or who has never botted, except me of course :P

    I've never been banned I wasn't banned this time. I think I might be right in assuming I have a good track record so far of being an honest player, maybe?

    So, I would like you to answer me why I am so upset. Do you believe as an honest player I have no reason to be upset?

    Everyone lies, we all lie every day, we lie for the best of reasons we lie for the worst of reasons, it's what humanity does. We are especially good at lying to ourselves. To respect the fragility of truth, is like walking into a room without disturbing any of the air molecules. It's absolutely psychologically impossible for a human to 100% tell the truth, it's a higher concept that we are biologically incapable of respecting to the highest degree that such respect deserves.

    So never invoke the truth, because it is rarely the truth.

    Regardless of who did what and how, I am still upset, Cryptic has the data we do not, they are in a better position to judge who are the dirty little cheaters not us so before we go out and lash out at anyone we believe is something they may not be, we must realise that Cryptic is in a better position than any of us to determine that fact.

    I am upset, and I have said this before, I will no doubt say it again, how this was implemented, how feedback was treated, how feedback was given and how I might be treated should I mistakenly be targeted next time by an automated filter. I have no idea if the people you think cheated ;and clearly you have no positive feelings towards them, actually cheated, whether they got banned, whether thay are still banned or whether they are unbanned.

    My position does not change.

    I am upset, and I have said this before, I will no doubt say it again, how this was implemented, how my feedback was treated, how feedback was given and how I might be treated should I mistakenly be targeted next time by an automated filter.

    I did not feel like a valued customer during this process and I wasn't even one of those banned. I would like to know that next time this happens ;and ban waves will happen and those of us who just want to play the game fairly want these ban waves, that my custom is valued, if I am affected by the next ban wave by mistake I want to know that I will be valued as a customer and will be treated fairly and promptly.
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    beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    loboguild said:

    It's not only that, most of the quote are made up. I'm sure these are things caught botters *could* say, but unfortunately it hasn't been posted on the source referred to. At least not publicly afaik.​​

    They're not quotes, but includes recognizable paraphrases of admissions by actual users. But let's see if I can get away with quoting the originals:

    "WHile i agree maybe that is botting but who stops somone to let his brother or his child to play while he is sleeping? Also that is not account sharing because account sharing is when you give information to another person and not when the other person replace you on the pc."

    "don't clame myself 100% legit, but 100% sure done nothing that deserves permanent ban recently."

    "I also never donate to game and did NOTHING illegal last year for sure (before all was farming foundary so it doesnt count)"

    "using old foundries is not botting" (This one I'll say is a reader error. Simply playing Foundry quests is no more botting than playing any mission designed by Cryptic.)

    So yes, there absolutely are admissions of culpability salted amongst the protests of innocence.
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    Neverwinter Census 2017

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    loboguildloboguild Member Posts: 2,371 Arc User
    Thanks @beckylunatic, I didn't crawl as thoroughly as I should have. I searched for the quotes and couldn't pull them up. I'll stick to my initial point though. As presented the facts are made up, it's not an accurate representation of the discussion.​​
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    beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    I agree it's a misrepresentation based on a handful of cherrypicked users who admitted to doing something against the ToS at some point (whether they recognize it or not).

    There are more users who were bewildered at their ban and unable to provide any details of what they might have done to get flagged, because they genuinely appear to have no idea.
    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
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    ariachniaariachnia Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    loboguild said:



    To give another pretty classic example: Multi accounting. The ToS do not state anything about this, yet we know from semi official statements that the tolerated amount of accounts is 2 per household/IP/whatever. Now you can say that this is common sense, but is it? In the end it's not forbidden in the ToS, hence it should be allowed to create as many accounts as you want. End of discussion.


    Is this true? My husband and I both play and my nephew (who lives with me) wants to. It sounds like I need to encourage him to stick with WoW.
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    thegreatmikeythegreatmikey Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 122 Arc User
    If you were all as technologically un-savvy as I am you would all be safe. I don't understand half of what you guys are describing. I had no idea a mouse could basically be used as a keyboard. I have no idea how a character can be "bound" to another character and made to buff the heck out of it and had no idea it could be done. I go along with my basic keyboard and basic mouse and never get as high up in the damage dealt or enemies killed charts as most.

    Honestly, you all make me feel kinda obsolete. Stupid smart people!
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    nameexpirednameexpired Member Posts: 1,282 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    IMO we have 2 issues:
    We don't know why people were banned, except that Cryptic perceived a violation of the ToS.
    Many posters here refer to botting. But what is botting?

    Would I bot running a script to drag a toon through Arcane Reservoir?
    Would I bot recording and playing a macro to login/collect professions/logout?
    Would I bot using the follow command to let a friend drag me through Arcane Reservoir while typing guild chat?
    Would I bot using the follow command to let a friend drag me through Arcane Reservoir while taking a leak?
    Would I bot by assigning the logout command to a single key? (takes at least a key and 2 mouseclicks otherwise)

    All these things have to be considered illegal

    Personally I am a fan of the old flatulence rule of "one keystroke, one key input." You can customize layouts however you want as long as one key's input is done with one keystroke. It's simple. You have a keyboard that let's you program a key to do your full combo with a delay between 5 keystrokes? That's nice but program the key to enter whatever key you want and do not set it up to enter 5 keystrokes for one key press.

    And how does Razor tie into this? Does PWE promote a keyboard producing company that is selling MMO-contraband?
    Something like "We encourage you to buy this keyboard from our partner company, but if you utilize it expect unmentionable."

    "playstyle of our most dedicated players so some of those accounts affected by the recent bans will be released on a probationary status and monitored"

    I understand Cryptic being quiet about bot detection, but may I ask, what do I have to do to be considered a "most dedicated player"? This is reeking terrible.

    In the end, we don't know and probably never will know why people were banned and then unbanned again.
    But I really think many problems could be handled way better by having a real person looking into things, like a Gamemaster. Cryptic might want to consider having one.

    I also get a lot of frustration and lack of any visible action on the bot front considering:
    • Months of "report spam" mail button clicks being answered with "you are simply to stupid to report spam, we don't know that user." (at least that is the message that comes across)
      • Btw, Word on the street screen is that these accounts have already been identified as gold sellers and been banned, this produces the error message. Please hire a rocket scientist to advise you delete their junk mail as well!
    • Years of no visible activity (other than nerfing the actual players by e.g. making nodes worthless) when reporting tons of bots to farm lairs for R5 (anyone remember the Mt. Hothenow farmers?)



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    thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    ariachnia said:

    loboguild said:



    To give another pretty classic example: Multi accounting. The ToS do not state anything about this, yet we know from semi official statements that the tolerated amount of accounts is 2 per household/IP/whatever. Now you can say that this is common sense, but is it? In the end it's not forbidden in the ToS, hence it should be allowed to create as many accounts as you want. End of discussion.


    Is this true? My husband and I both play and my nephew (who lives with me) wants to. It sounds like I need to encourage him to stick with WoW.
    @ariachnia I wouldn't be inclined to believe this, provided each of the people in the family is actually playing, it should be fine.
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    matthattrmatthattr Member Posts: 84 Arc User
    armadeonx said:

    Why are players arguing between themselves about what is and what isn't botting? And why is it always the same old faces doing the arguing and taking their usual pro or anti positions?

    This is a feedback thread - not facebook.

    Well, actually it's a "discussion" thread. So people are you know..."discussing".
    feedback is whole other category on the forum headings page. Just like ones for PC/console, pvp, support, class discussion etc.

    If you find "discussing" tiresome, just like if you don't like whats on T.V., turn it off.

    I too find it a tad specious on Cryptics part.
    Ban Hammer!....oops we caught major players....ummm ok rubber mallet?? Ermm ok "probation" yeh that sounds plausable! Spagetti post to baffle them with BS...*dust off hands* there job well done...let's move on problem solved!

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    zebularzebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator

    Would I bot by assigning the logout command to a single key? (takes at least a key and 2 mouseclicks otherwise)

    This is incorrect. There is a slash command to do just this, /gotocharacterselect All you need to do is either type that slash command in chat or follow the game's own keybinding command /bind X gotocharacterselect Where X would be the desired key. This is detailed on the Official Wiki.

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    jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    Because if it is in the game, it must be legit to use it.

    EDIT: Not sure if I asked question or made statement.
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    zebularzebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited May 2017

    Because if it is in the game, it must be legit to use it.

    EDIT: Not sure if I asked question or made statement.

    Well, let me explain then. Using /gotocharacter select manually or in keyboard form to log out to the character select alone is okay. What would not be okay would be to use it in an automated script/macro that (may or may not be in part of other commands/action) takes you to the login screen and then automatically logs you into a character (and may or may not be in part of other commands/action). That would not be okay. It's the automated script/macro that is the no no, not necessarily the individual commands there-in. I'd also gander to say that having a script that logs out via recorded actions would be a no no. Simply using /gotocharacterselect by manually typing it in or as a set hotkey via the in-game manual way of adding hotkeys is not an issue.
    Post edited by zebular on
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    jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    kreatyve said:

    General note: Discussing moderation is still not allowed. If you have an issue or question about moderation of this or any other thread, please contact a moderator or @nitocris83. Thanks.

    I'd just like to take this opportunity to repost a previous message in this thread that may clear any confusion that I can say confused me at first.

    Please keep this in mind when you post.

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    tripsofthrymrtripsofthrymr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,624 Community Moderator
    ariachnia said:

    loboguild said:


    yet we know from semi official statements that the tolerated amount of accounts is 2 per household/IP/whatever.

    Is this true? My husband and I both play and my nephew (who lives with me) wants to. It sounds like I need to encourage him to stick with WoW.
    I confirmed with @nitocris83 that there is no specific limit on accounts per household.

    I play, my wife plays, and my three kids play sometimes. Never had a problem.

    My personal (unconfirmed) belief: Many accounts per household may be examined as a factor in determining whether the behavior observed from a specific IP defies the laws of physics and biology.

    (As a technical note, the IP address isn't a perfect proxy for a household. There are cases where a single household can frequently be assigned a new IP and there are cases where many - at times tens of thousands - of households can be routed through a single IP.)

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    loboguildloboguild Member Posts: 2,371 Arc User
    @tripsofthrymr @nitocris83 People claim to have been banned for it. Also "household" is not accurate enough. Does it mean it's okay if different people play in the same "household". Or can one player have multiple accounts, given they do not violate the does with other actions?​​
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    dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User

    ariachnia said:

    loboguild said:


    yet we know from semi official statements that the tolerated amount of accounts is 2 per household/IP/whatever.

    Is this true? My husband and I both play and my nephew (who lives with me) wants to. It sounds like I need to encourage him to stick with WoW.
    I confirmed with @nitocris83 that there is no specific limit on accounts per household.

    I play, my wife plays, and my three kids play sometimes. Never had a problem.

    My personal (unconfirmed) belief: Many accounts per household may be examined as a factor in determining whether the behavior observed from a specific IP defies the laws of physics and biology.

    (As a technical note, the IP address isn't a perfect proxy for a household. There are cases where a single household can frequently be assigned a new IP and there are cases where many - at times tens of thousands - of households can be routed through a single IP.)

    I agree this needs to be articulated more clearly. Earlier posts by mods included refrences to account limits, although in that context it was number of accounts one person can have.

    I also stumbled on becky's inquiry into invoking for hubby.

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/comment/12676882

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    tripsofthrymrtripsofthrymr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,624 Community Moderator
    loboguild said:

    @tripsofthrymr @nitocris83 People claim to have been banned for it. Also "household" is not accurate enough. Does it mean it's okay if different people play in the same "household". Or can one player have multiple accounts, given they do not violate the does with other actions?​​

    People claim lots of things on the internet.

    Only Customer Service knows for sure what evidence they have to support a specific ban. If someone truly was banned only for having more than two accounts tied to their "household," and they did absolutely nothing else that would raise red flags, I would say they have excellent grounds for appeal. I can't say whether that ever happened in the history of Neverwinter, but I can say that violating what Cryptic feels are the limits of "physics and biology" is the criteria they intended to apply to the current round of bans. I don't have an opinion about how well they hit that target because I'm a player that also volunteers to help moderate the forums and not in any way privy to the methodology used to identify bots or to player account information.

    Caritas Guild Founder (Greycloak Alliance)

    Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
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    tripsofthrymrtripsofthrymr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,624 Community Moderator
    edited May 2017
    loboguild said:

    Or can one player have multiple accounts, given they do not violate the does with other actions?​​

    From how I understand the ToS, there's nothing preventing one person from having multiple accounts per se.

    If one person has a hundred accounts that collectively are active 24/7, starting new leadership tasks and invoking, that will almost certainly be seen by Cryptic (or any other MMO operator) as a violation of the ToS.

    There's a ton of grey area between having two accounts and having a hundred. You aren't likely to get a firm statement from any MMO about precisely where they draw the line, and indeed that line is likely to move over time.

    Caritas Guild Founder (Greycloak Alliance)

    Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
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