Thank you Kain for (fast and) informative response! Points me in the right direction and makes sense for me. Prob end up playing Cleric or OP to start, but keeping CW for later play. Happy hunting.
MoF ren also has a low investment, you there to act as a buffbot and to help the party, your help is not measured or improved much by gear, the buffs are just as good with amazing gear as with bad gear.
The thing is with mof ren, when u pug, and pugs see ur dmg, u may be in real troubles, usually arguments like "but coz of me u r doing 100% more dmg" dont work on them, and u may simply get kicked when they will be searching for some1 to blame for wipes etc. Its great choice for premades, when u take de/buffbot GF, de/buffbot DC, de/buffbot OP and de/buffbot cw, all 4 working for one pure dps toon, results outshine by miles any 3-5 dps groups, but as far as gf, op, or dc wont get kicked from group for doing low dmg, cw have chance for that (ops u rolled 1).
About artis, first of all coz of stats, lantern has one of the best ones for dps, also has one the best actives in endgame content (like edemo, when 10 ppl takes advantage of lantern debuff and deals 16% more dmg. Waters from the other hand have good stats for buffbot like gf, for other classes i would still take lantern. Aurora is meh, i think it didnt even get updated with newest potions, if it would, it would be nice 5th arti to have, just for some exclusives from shop, and it was at some point, but now its big naaaaah.
Any advice on how to use the Renegade & Spell Twisting PVE set up and adapt it for PVP too? I feel pushed into focusing on arcane powers rather than ice in PVP as Entangling Force and Repel seem compulsory and Magic Missile does more damagethan other at wills (while controlling human opponents seems impossible without icy veins with all the control resistance out there). Maybe I would benefit by going all arcane on powers (adding in a RoE and Disintegrate) but then would that not take advantage of the feats in this build?
Quick question on artifacts for newbies. Since artifacts will change, why not get Aurora's Whole Realm Catalogue for the merchant summon? Or is the plus crit far more important?
The Realm catalog has atrocious stats, and the Lantern of Revelation that you can choose as a reward from that quest can serve as a great artifact in most endgame builds. Mine has been upgraded to mythic.
And I disagree that the OP requires little gear investment...if you want to play the overly powerful perma-bubble OP, you need to invest a good amount in recovery or +AP gear, and without the perma-bubble running, the OP is a fairly lackluster class, and extremely grinding to solo stuff with...the DPS difference between even a highly geared OP and a low geared CW is substantial, and you'll notice that soloing is much easier on a CW than an OP.
I have both. I've leveled both and played both in dungeons and solo. The OP is by far one of my least favorite classes to grind out dailies on, and that was a big reason I only play him if the group really, really, really needs a tank...which these days is rarely, if ever. With the lack of challenging content, and the ease of PvE, the game meta has shifted back to MOAR DPS!, which doesn't necessarily favor an OP.
There are some OP builds that can outDPS 99% of CWs. Hell, I've seen an OP fighting the black dragon in SH drop its HP 20% in one hit.
> @willson#2163 said: > > > @katamaster81899 said: > > > > > There are some OP builds that can outDPS 99% of CWs. Hell, I've seen an OP fighting the black dragon in SH drop its HP 20% in one hit. > > That was probably a lucky binding oath. > >
the only way that is possible is with a lagadin who exploits the games mechanics.
Big conspiracy that armor pen on Xbox doesn't cap at 60% on PvE and that having it at 100, you see a significant damage increase. Any thoughts on this?
Big conspiracy that armor pen on Xbox doesn't cap at 60% on PvE and that having it at 100, you see a significant damage increase. Any thoughts on this?
I'd argue that this isn't true, however, I haven't played it on Xbox since the closed Alpha way back when.
Brand new player here using this build. Just hit 45 and thought I might give some pure newbie feedback.
@ tanatos, I read through and checked everything and the guide appears to be up to date.
Regarding the build: working fine and a lot of fun. I do have to pay attention sometimes, but that applies to most classes. Using a healer companion and find there are a few times when that helps (e.g. lag bumps, brain farts, etc). However, when I hit level 45 things slowed down ... I am spending a lot of time looting now
Thank you again for the excellent guide and feedback. Happy hunting.
I tested the armor pen theory and it doesnt work. Ran multiple dungeons with same group and had 117% armor pen, and was embarrased each time. Like 4th place embarrassed. I put on my other gear, armor pen was 75% and i smashed everyone.
Ironzerg, just posted this as a separate thread but realized that I should just ask the expert! I'm currently running your build almost to the letter. I just got lucky in getting the Legendary New Life lockbox! Which one would you pick with this build?
Ironzerg, just posted this as a separate thread but realized that I should just ask the expert! I'm currently running your build almost to the letter. I just got lucky in getting the Legendary New Life lockbox! Which one would you pick with this build?
If you're using Ironzerg's build, then none of the New Life companions are really viable. The only situations a CW should be using any of them is a MoF Thaum with balanced Power and Crit, which can be quite a godly DPS boost (40-60%) or a MoF Ren, to compensation for their atrocious damage. An argument could be made that it would be a great boost to SS Thaum, as well, to supplement the eLoL set. Statistically, it should be just behind Spell Storm procs on ACTs.
I'm going to be testing a high Power, low Crit MoF Thaum/Abyss using the Owlbear Cub, Lightning Enchantment and an Imperial or Black Ice set. It's a hefty venture, but I've seen with my own eyes the ridiculous numbers you can crank out with this setup.
The basis of this build is:
-Despite what some people (who don't have one) say, the Owlbear Cub procs off of every hit of an AoE. For CWs, this turns Steal Time and a few other encounters into godly encounters and IS boosted by outside sources (Companion's Gift, Rings of Rising Power and Brutality, Cleric/GF buffs, Black Ice Warhorse). However, it's not boosted by potions.
-It procs off of every single hit of Abyss of Chaos. The Paragon feat by itself only does around 5-6k damage. By itself, not that impressive. But since the Lightning Enchantment procs off of each hit and acts like an encounter, it also procs Infantile Compensation with each target hit by Abyss of Chaos/Lightning Enchantment.
-The reason I'm going MoF on this build is because the Owlbear Cub active ability procs on the first hit of every Smolder/Rimfire. And since SS is crit dependent, I would get no benefit from it running this low crit build.
-This build also frees us up from the benefits of Dragonborn and Tiefling and is maximized by going Human. We want to avoid Charisma at all costs. And this also gives us those 3 extra precious Feat points to max out Learned Spellcaster and Focused Wizardry.
The only downside to this build is we can't use Icy Veins under any circumstances and Critical Conflagration is kind of a waste, but I'll test it out. It might be handy just for Smolder/Rimfire purposes, but since Infantile Compensation can only proc on the initial DoT hit, I may just avoid it altogether. I'm leaning towards running Arcane Presence and Swath of Destruction, since I should be able to spam Fanning the Flame enough (every 4 seconds by my calculations), considering Arcane Presence gives a 25% Recharge Speed reduction (with off-hand bonus) and my Recovery will essentially be replacing my Crit with this build. 25% from Arcane Presence+24% from high INT+10% from WIS (since we're avoiding CHA)+10k Recovery (55% if my calculations are correct)+Spell Twisting.
It provides superior damage on paper in every conceivable way over any crit build. And I've seen a buddy running this build on a 3.4k CW on an MoF Thaum and he consistently out-damages my 4k 72% Crit SS Thaum/Icy Veins build by ~20% every time we run anything.
He also runs a Wild Hunt Rider, Air Archon, Fire Archon and a Lightfoot Thief as a summoned companion.
Also, the Owlbear Cub is godly on Stronghold Siege. The damage seems to be irresistible and he can take out some people with a single Steal Time, especially if it procs Assailant lol.
Sorry for the rant. I just felt you deserved an in-depth response to your question.
Post edited by spiritualxbl on
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Ironzerg, just posted this as a separate thread but realized that I should just ask the expert! I'm currently running your build almost to the letter. I just got lucky in getting the Legendary New Life lockbox! Which one would you pick with this build?
If you're using Ironzerg's build, then none of the New Life companions are really viable. The only situations a CW should be using any of them is a MoF Thaum with balanced Power and Crit, which can be quite a godly DPS boost (40-60%) or a MoF Ren, to compensation for their atrocious damage. An argument could be made that it would be a great boost to SS Thaum, as well, to supplement the eLoL set. Statistically, it should be just behind Spell Storm procs on ACTs.
I'm going to be testing a high Power, low Crit MoF Thaum/Abyss using the Owlbear Cub, Lightning Enchantment and an Imperial or Black Ice set. It's a hefty venture, but I've seen with my own eyes the ridiculous numbers you can crank out with this setup.
The basis of this build is:
-Despite what some people (who don't have one) say, the Owlbear Cub procs off of every hit of an AoE. For CWs, this turns Steal Time and a few other encounters into godly encounters and IS boosted by outside sources (Companion's Gift, Rings of Rising Power and Brutality, Cleric/GF buffs, Black Ice Warhorse). However, it's not boosted by potions.
-It procs off of every single hit of Abyss of Chaos. The Paragon feat by itself only does around 5-6k damage. By itself, not that impressive. But since the Lightning Enchantment procs off of each hit and acts like an encounter, it also procs Infantile Compensation with each target hit by Abyss of Chaos/Lightning Enchantment.
-The reason I'm going MoF on this build is because the Owlbear Cub active ability procs on the first hit of every Smolder/Rimfire. And since SS is crit dependent, I would get no benefit from it running this low crit build.
-This build also frees us up from the benefits of Dragonborn and Tiefling and is maximized by going Human. We want to avoid Charisma at all costs. And this also gives us those 3 extra precious Feat points to max out Learned Spellcaster and Focused Wizardry.
The only downside to this build is we can't use Icy Veins under any circumstances and Critical Conflagration is kind of a waste, but I'll test it out. It might be handy just for Smolder/Rimfire purposes, but since Infantile Compensation can only proc on the initial DoT hit, I may just avoid it altogether. I'm leaning towards running Arcane Presence and Swath of Destruction, since I should be able to spam Fanning the Flame enough (every 4 seconds by my calculations), considering Arcane Presence gives a 25% Recharge Speed reduction (with off-hand bonus) and my Recovery will essentially be replacing my Crit with this build. 25% from Arcane Presence+24% from high INT+10% from WIS (since we're avoiding CHA)+10k Recovery (55% if my calculations are correct)+Spell Twisting.
It provides superior damage on paper in every conceivable way over any crit build. And I've seen a buddy running this build on a 3.4k CW on an MoF Thaum and he consistently out-damages my 4k 72% Crit SS Thaum/Icy Veins build by ~20% every time we run anything.
He also runs a Wild Hunt Rider, Air Archon, Fire Archon and a Lightfoot Thief as a summoned companion.
Also, the Owlbear Cub is godly on Stronghold Siege. The damage seems to be irresistible and he can take out some people with a single Steal Time, especially if it procs Assailant lol.
Sorry for the rant. I just felt you deserved an in-depth response to your question.
Difference between infantile compensation and the elol set/storm spell is simple really. Infantile compensation doesn't benefit from buffs, the other 2 do. Which means in group content your build will always do less than a high crit build (I have the owlbear cub, I have tested it in many builds, including a MoF thaum with abyss+lightning and a MoF thaum with abyss+bilethorn.) Furthermore, you are not taking chilling presence, which is the biggest dps boost to any class hands down that there is.
Ironzerg, just posted this as a separate thread but realized that I should just ask the expert! I'm currently running your build almost to the letter. I just got lucky in getting the Legendary New Life lockbox! Which one would you pick with this build?
If you're using Ironzerg's build, then none of the New Life companions are really viable. The only situations a CW should be using any of them is a MoF Thaum with balanced Power and Crit, which can be quite a godly DPS boost (40-60%) or a MoF Ren, to compensation for their atrocious damage. An argument could be made that it would be a great boost to SS Thaum, as well, to supplement the eLoL set. Statistically, it should be just behind Spell Storm procs on ACTs.
I'm going to be testing a high Power, low Crit MoF Thaum/Abyss using the Owlbear Cub, Lightning Enchantment and an Imperial or Black Ice set. It's a hefty venture, but I've seen with my own eyes the ridiculous numbers you can crank out with this setup.
The basis of this build is:
-Despite what some people (who don't have one) say, the Owlbear Cub procs off of every hit of an AoE. For CWs, this turns Steal Time and a few other encounters into godly encounters and IS boosted by outside sources (Companion's Gift, Rings of Rising Power and Brutality, Cleric/GF buffs, Black Ice Warhorse). However, it's not boosted by potions.
-It procs off of every single hit of Abyss of Chaos. The Paragon feat by itself only does around 5-6k damage. By itself, not that impressive. But since the Lightning Enchantment procs off of each hit and acts like an encounter, it also procs Infantile Compensation with each target hit by Abyss of Chaos/Lightning Enchantment.
-The reason I'm going MoF on this build is because the Owlbear Cub active ability procs on the first hit of every Smolder/Rimfire. And since SS is crit dependent, I would get no benefit from it running this low crit build.
-This build also frees us up from the benefits of Dragonborn and Tiefling and is maximized by going Human. We want to avoid Charisma at all costs. And this also gives us those 3 extra precious Feat points to max out Learned Spellcaster and Focused Wizardry.
The only downside to this build is we can't use Icy Veins under any circumstances and Critical Conflagration is kind of a waste, but I'll test it out. It might be handy just for Smolder/Rimfire purposes, but since Infantile Compensation can only proc on the initial DoT hit, I may just avoid it altogether. I'm leaning towards running Arcane Presence and Swath of Destruction, since I should be able to spam Fanning the Flame enough (every 4 seconds by my calculations), considering Arcane Presence gives a 25% Recharge Speed reduction (with off-hand bonus) and my Recovery will essentially be replacing my Crit with this build. 25% from Arcane Presence+24% from high INT+10% from WIS (since we're avoiding CHA)+10k Recovery (55% if my calculations are correct)+Spell Twisting.
It provides superior damage on paper in every conceivable way over any crit build. And I've seen a buddy running this build on a 3.4k CW on an MoF Thaum and he consistently out-damages my 4k 72% Crit SS Thaum/Icy Veins build by ~20% every time we run anything.
He also runs a Wild Hunt Rider, Air Archon, Fire Archon and a Lightfoot Thief as a summoned companion.
Also, the Owlbear Cub is godly on Stronghold Siege. The damage seems to be irresistible and he can take out some people with a single Steal Time, especially if it procs Assailant lol.
Sorry for the rant. I just felt you deserved an in-depth response to your question.
Difference between infantile compensation and the elol set/storm spell is simple really. Infantile compensation doesn't benefit from buffs, the other 2 do. Which means in group content your build will always do less than a high crit build (I have the owlbear cub, I have tested it in many builds, including a MoF thaum with abyss+lightning and a MoF thaum with abyss+bilethorn.) Furthermore, you are not taking chilling presence, which is the biggest dps boost to any class hands down that there is.
Yes, but the has compensation. Since most of the build benefits from multi-proccing Arcane spells, the only Ice spells I would even slot are maybe Chill Strike and Icy Rays for bosses. Each tick of Steal Time procs Infantile Compensation, which would be the majority of your DPS. Tested with a high Recovery+Spell Twisting build and Arcane Presence, Rampage was able to cast keep his Steal Time and Shard up instantly, which generally aren't up even after a full rotation + Spell Twisting. I'm not saying it's a game changing build, but it's a viable alternative to the same old boring cookie cutter builds out there. And despite what some have said, his Companion's Gift and his Rising Power and Brutality rings (even his companion's) were boosting the Infantile Compensation procs. The man was hitting 80k procs with it off of Steal Time. The only drawbacks with it, obviously, is that you lose your eLoL and certain powers. He's running Imprisonment on Tab and he's able to cast it after one rotation, which is insane, because I know for my current build the cooldown time was around 30 seconds. And the reason he Tabbed that is because it gives you full Arcane Mastery stacks, which boosts the HAMSTER out of Steal Time and Shard. It's a build of love, but I've seen the numbers the dude's posted up and it's impressive. Like I said, he out DPSes my 4k CW consistently, and I'm running high crit SS Thaum with Icy and Owlbear Cub. It'll definitely be a more viable build if/when they "fix" the eLoL set.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
I actually like the way you think, seriously. To tell you the truth, I'm totally bored out of my skull with my own build. You've piqued my curiosity, and I'd love to explore some of the theory you're laying down.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
I actually like the way you think, seriously. To tell you the truth, I'm totally bored out of my skull with my own build. You've piqued my curiosity, and I'd love to explore some of the theory you're laying down.
Something that is also fun to try is a pure support MoF ren using trans bilethorn on a drow with abyss of chaos.
I'm finding it more and more practical to stay with a single target loadout through most content now, even in mob-heavy environments. I simply end up doing more damage overall. Admittedly, some of that has to do with getting tired of having to keep swapping loadouts in and out through CN. Thus, I'm getting increasingly interested in arcane over chill stacks. This new stuff is certainly perking my interest.
It's kind of a HAMSTER stacking power. I'm in the process of ditching all my crit, which is a slow process. I can stack power to around 25k and 6k crit, but I have to wait for double RP to get rid of my crit artifacts. I'm also trying to decide if it would be beneficial to run a set or just keep stat maxing on artifact items. It's a shame they changed the stats on the Black Ice stuff from Mod 5, because they were ideal for this build.
I'm currently at running:
MoF (since there's absolutely NO benefit for a SS with no crit) Thaum
Tempest Magic: 5/5 Malevolent Surge: 5/5 Elemental Reinforcement: 5/5 Spell Twisting: 5/5 Elemental Empowerment: 5/5 Assailing Force: 1/1 Reaper's Touch: 5/5 (No point in taking Critical Power, since we don't crit) Arcane Burst: 5/5 (This adds one stack of Arcane Mastery even with a quick cast) Abyss of Chaos: 5/5
I didn't go Icy Veins, because there's no place for Chilling Presence with this build.
I re-rolled for a high INT (21), lowest WIS (13 base) and lowest CHA (11) and then stacked INT and WIS with my points. If I could get CHA lower, I would. That 3% from Prestidigitation seemed to outweigh the benefits, since it's not a static number. 3% Power+Companion's Gift can be 3-4k extra power. I may consider re-rolling a Moon Elf or Sun Elf later, but I don't know.
Powers:
Class Features:
Arcane Presence (Always)
Chilling Presence for groups, Swath of Destruction for groups/solo/boss fights. You could slot Critical Conflagration here if you need to apply Smolder, but you'll almost never be applying Rimfire and the Crit Severity is a complete waste. Chlling Presence is still an outstanding buff for Icy Terrain and Chill Strike, but you have to weigh the pros and cons. If you can adapt without Icy Terrain, Swath of Destruction is definitely the way to go.
*Smolder is such an insignificant part of your damage here. The only beneficial time for it, will be boss fights and when you're able to attack a pack of enemies with a fully charged Scorching Burst.
Rotations:
Solo/Small Dungeons:
1.
Tab: Steal Time. (Controversial? Yup. But on Tab, Steal Time gives you Combat Advantage and a Run Speed buff that's based off of how much time is stolen (how many enemies/how long of a cast you get off) and boosted by Arcane Mastery. For this build, you'll almost always have full Combat Advantage. It's for the whole group, too! A huge reason many people go Renegade in the first place. And since we're stacking Recovery as a secondary stat, the recast time is as short as Disintegrate on a low Recovery build! Another function, albeit super cheap, is that Steal Time can be cancelled after 4 ticks, cast 1 At-Will and it's ready to recast again. This takes patience, but if done right, you can get more DPS with that one skill+Owlbear proc than anyone else would get with it. It's been tested against low crit HRs and CWs get around 40% more benefit than an HR spamming his short rotations.)
Shard of the Endless Avalanche (Another controversial choice. The basis: Summoning a Shard and not launching it builds and refreshes Arcane Mastery stacks. It's also great damage (since we're building for Arcane Mastery) and can act is a makeshift life saver if you get overwhelmed.
Disintegrate (Arcane Based damage, hits like a truck with high stacks (over 150k non-crits solo. It also acts as an activator for Spell Twisting, since it's got the shortest cast time of any of the viable powers.)
Icy Terrain (Since Arcane Presence also boosts the damage of cold-based powers, it'd be silly not to run this.)
At-Wills:
Magic Missile (This is an arcane build, after all.) Scorching Burst (For boss rights and small groups to keep Smolder going)
Dailies:
Oppressive Force (Builds Arcane Mastery stacks)
Furious Immolation (CC that works very well with our rotation, especially Shard. It also applies Smolder.)
Since this build runs a decent WIS/high Recovery, I find I'm getting my Daily every 1 1/2 rotations. It's very easy to alternate these 2 dailies on tougher bosses and packs of enemies and keep your Arcane Mastery stacks and Smolder going.
Group/Big Dungeons:
Tab: Imprisonment (Cast on an enemy and immediately release him. This gives you 4 instant stacks of Arcane Mastery and since it's Tabbed, the cooldown time is only around 12 seconds. Rampage has his down to around 8 seconds, but I haven't gotten my Recovery that high yet.)
You could also use Steal Time for the Tab here, but your DPS will benefit more from Imprisonment, since no other source can give you that many instantaneous stacks of Arcane Mastery.
Icy Terrain (I will never remove this from my rotation lol.)
Steal Time (If you choose not to Tab it.)
Shard of the Endless Avalanche (I'd recommend this for large packs over Disintegrate, the cooldown isn't instant like Disintegrate, but with a high Recovery (mine's 52% currently), a max INT (23%), WIS (12%) and Spell Twisting (40%), trust me, you'll barely have to wait to recast Shard if you do your rotations correctly.)
Same At-Wills, Class Features and Dailies. You don't need Chilling Cloud or Ice Knife, since you won't be casting many At-Wills at all and Ice Knife does pretty crappy damage with this build.
Bosses:
Tab: Imprisonment or Ray of Enfeeblement. (All bosses are immune to the effects of Imprisonment, but it still gives you those fast stacks for high burst damage. Ray of Enfeeblement gives you a 20% debuff and lowers their Mitigation. It's probably the best DPS debuff in the game. And with this build, you can cast both Tabbed charges of it VERY quickly.)
Disintegrate (Our hardest hitting skill for single-target. Hits much harder than it does on any Ice builds.)
Steal Time (This is still our damage king, because of the Owlbear Cub procs.)
Chill Strike (Has better damage than Icy Rays and has an almost instant cooldown. You could also use Icy Terrain to build "some" chill stacks, but I prefer Chill Strike because it allows me to keep my distance and not have to worry about getting downed.)
Same At-Wills, Class Feats and Dailies as above.
This build is one of love, like I expressed earlier. If you haven't truly mastered the CW, this isn't your build. There isn't anything cookie cutter about it and you won't be getting used to the same rotation for everything. It's definitely a throwback to before Mod 4, but I promise you, once you get it down, you'll fall in love with your CW again. You WILL have to master this, but you'll love it. Once you see your Steal Times hitting for 75k x8 + 15k-100k Owlbear Cub procs, you'll understand it.
Boons: I'm not going to list them all, but avoid Crit and choose them as you would any other DPS Thaum.
I would recommend out of personal preference, taking Elven Tranquility over Elven Ferocity in the Sharandar boons, as it seems to proc much more frequently and that 20k heal can save your HAMSTER.
And if you go the Steal Time cancellation route, Stamina will be your best friend. I'm currently running an Elven Enchant for 30% Stamina (@thefabricant showed me the way on that), a Gas Spore companion for 20%, and all possible Stamina boons with the exception of Elven Resolve.
Enchants:
Radiant and Silvery will be your primary. Slot in some Dark if your Armor Penetration isn't at 57%. (You'll get the other 3% from a boon.)
Dark in every defense slot.
Dark in every utility
Companions:
Summoned:
I alternate between a Legendary Mercenary for groups and a Legendary Yeti for soloing. A lot of people also run Legendary Zhentarim Warlocks and Lightfoot Thieves for group play, but any of those 3 will suffice. The Lightfoot Thief is STILL broken, which is the only reason I'm using the Mercenary instead of him.
Owlbear Cub is a key component of this build.
I'm also running Air/Fire/Earth archons. A lot of people don't like the Earth archon, but with my Lifesteal chance at 20%, I'm generally always at full health.
Depending on the situation, I'll swap him out for the Cantankerous Mage. You really notice the CC on Steal Time and Shard with him.
Benefits:
-Not cookie cutter. -More damage than SS Thaum if you master it. -Second to none for personal DPS CW builds. -No more hearing the HAMSTER "you're being greedy and not helping the group and only going for personal DPS" comments. This build gives both. (Combat Advantage from Steal Time, Run Speed (it's on par with GF if you time it right), allowing the other players to get to mobs quicker, the 20% group damage buff from Swatch of Destruction and 20% group damage from Ray of Enfeeblement. It's definitely on par with Chaos Magic, minus the heal.)
Cons:
-Hard to master. -You have to intentionally gear for low crit, which can be frustrating. -Conduit of Ice is one of the worst skills to use for this build. The damage is laughable and we're building Arcane Mastery stacks here, not Chill stacks. And since won't be benefiting from the eLoL set and Spell Storm and Smolder don't matter here, there isn't any real benefit to using this skill. Also, with all the speed run content right now, you rarely find time to get it off before mobs are killed.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
I know someone on PC running this build, I am not sure if its the same person as you, Cyler@oria1, it definitely does not do more damage than SS thaum, I can say that from running with him and from testing it myself (and I can count the number of CW's that hit as hard or harder than me when I am specced for dps on 1 hand, normally, I prefer to run non damage specs though). With that being said, it is still a completely viable build and it is certainly fun to mess around with. In fact, if you look in my CW guide, you should find a similar support MoF build that uses the owlbear as its primary source of damage, appendix 4 I believe.
I know someone on PC running this build, I am not sure if its the same person as you, Cyler@oria1, it definitely does not do more damage than SS thaum, I can say that from running with him and from testing it myself (and I can count the number of CW's that hit as hard or harder than me when I am specced for dps on 1 hand, normally, I prefer to run non damage specs though). With that being said, it is still a completely viable build and it is certainly fun to mess around with. In fact, if you look in my CW guide, you should find a similar support MoF build that uses the owlbear as its primary source of damage, appendix 4 I believe.
Rampage actually got the idea from one of Chem's old formulas, and I tweaked a couple things myself using your aforementioned appendix, as you could probably tell. Do you know what rotation Cyler's running? I've noticed everything has to been in alignment for the DPS to be maximized. I implore you to test it as we've written it out. It's a very gear-oriented and if even one thing's out of place, the favor will scale towards a Crit build.
I'll invite you and you can run a CN or ETOS with us tomorrow.
It's a HAMSTER transition, because you literally have to change every single piece of gear to make it viable. We've spent hundreds of hours testing and honing it and when we duo, I run Lathander's and he runs Imperial. I'll be switching over this next x2 RP.
Also, feel free to have Cyler contact me. I'm always looking to compare notes/builds.
It's a build of love, as I said. After meticulous testing, the gear/feats/powers from loadout 1 are a must for personal DPS.
The damage is as follows:
Min/max - 28k power (without augment). 70% damage bonus 110% cooldown reduction+Spell Twisting=Constant encounter spamming. (Really hard to calculate this into DPS, but I have 0s cooldowns on proper rotations and minimal cooldowns using Imprisonment. The same can never be said for a low recovery build. ~50-60% faster dailies over an SS Thaum/Ren, especially because of AP off-hand. 15% constant damage - Wheel (average) 15% Arcane Mastery - 100% up-time 133% base boost from Arcane Mastery stacks to Chill stacks conversion. 48-96% with CP slotted - Swap for SoD on bosses. 15% encounter boost from Imperial Set. 20% debuff from RoE, constant up-time Tabbed. Abyss - ~20-30% DPS, depending on # of enemies hit. Owlbear Cub - As much as 35% DPS on Rampage's ACTs. 10% WHR ~10% up-time between Archons. Smolder - Very minimal, but still around 5-10% DPS, depending on the map. Combat Advantage via Tabbed Steal Time. 1.25x multiplier. Plus all the other Thaum buffs.
SS Thaum: eLoL - High power/crit, can be up to 30k x2 with ST. SS - 10k x2, very low chance for off-hand to proc. 48-96% CP 50% Crit Severity - Vorpal All the same buffs from companions and Thaum. Icy Veins = more Chill stacks. Owlbear still viable depending on Crit Chance, but marginally only around 5-6m DPS on our ACTs. A fraction of what you can get with low Crit build.
-----
Yes, the eLoL set is a huge bonus. SS isn't essential by any means, but we got slightly higher %'s over AI on our ACTs.
-----
We also tested the build with Icy Veins and CP+AP, but Lightning+Abyss won out every time. We also saw some strange things using Evocation. It really gimped the numbers on Steal Time, specifically. That's why we don't recommend it.
-----
Another thing worth noting is that Shard can multi-proc IC, as well. But the biggest boost to it is from Steal Time.
-----
We also have a TR friend who's been testing it out, and his DPS has increased about 15% over his PVE Executioner AoE build. Apparently they have a LOT of abilities that can multi-proc it. It gimps him elsewhere, obviously, because DEX is their master stat, but he prefers the low Crit build now.
-----
On paper and in testing, we've seen a 20% DPS increase over the cookie cutter SS Thaum. The only drawbacks are having to know how to keep your stacks up, especially if you're not using Imprisonment on Tab. AP is a median buff, as it boosts both Arcane AND Chill stack %'s. Combine that with CP and the fact that our entire rotation consists of Arcane and Cold spells, and it seems to more than balance out the loss of the eLoL set. If/when eLoL gets fixed, it'll be impossible for a cookie cutter build to compete with this one. I've seen Rampage take Paingiver from one of our best Damnation SWs and one of the more popular GWFs on ESOT. Only recently on the GWF front, mind you. The Temp HP nerf has made a lot of GWFs more conscientious about running in head-first LOL.
The real trick with this Encounter build is knowing what procs it and that Steal Time's initial tick seems to be boosted by CG and each subsequent tick procs IC. It's also important to use Shard as a buffer, rather than a damage ability, as it refreshes stacks quite consistently. You won't need a full 4-cast rotation with the cooldowns. You'll be able to spam Steal Time, Icy Terrain and Disintegrate as you wish and when the Shard finally blows up, you'll have it back by the end of the next rotation.
I'll provide some numbers when Dicky gets back on.
My fingers are hurting. Feel free to message me any time if you're curious about anything.
I know someone on PC running this build, I am not sure if its the same person as you, Cyler@oria1, it definitely does not do more damage than SS thaum, I can say that from running with him and from testing it myself (and I can count the number of CW's that hit as hard or harder than me when I am specced for dps on 1 hand, normally, I prefer to run non damage specs though). With that being said, it is still a completely viable build and it is certainly fun to mess around with. In fact, if you look in my CW guide, you should find a similar support MoF build that uses the owlbear as its primary source of damage, appendix 4 I believe.
Rampage actually got the idea from one of Chem's old formulas, and I tweaked a couple things myself using your aforementioned appendix, as you could probably tell. Do you know what rotation Cyler's running? I've noticed everything has to been in alignment for the DPS to be maximized. I implore you to test it as we've written it out. It's a very gear-oriented and if even one thing's out of place, the favor will scale towards a Crit build.
I'll invite you and you can run a CN or ETOS with us tomorrow.
It's a HAMSTER transition, because you literally have to change every single piece of gear to make it viable. We've spent hundreds of hours testing and honing it and when we duo, I run Lathander's and he runs Imperial. I'll be switching over this next x2 RP.
Also, feel free to have Cyler contact me. I'm always looking to compare notes/builds.
It's a build of love, as I said. After meticulous testing, the gear/feats/powers from loadout 1 are a must for personal DPS.
The damage is as follows:
Min/max - 28k power (without augment). 70% damage bonus 110% cooldown reduction+Spell Twisting=Constant encounter spamming. (Really hard to calculate this into DPS, but I have 0s cooldowns on proper rotations and minimal cooldowns using Imprisonment. The same can never be said for a low recovery build. ~50-60% faster dailies over an SS Thaum/Ren, especially because of AP off-hand. 15% constant damage - Wheel (average) 15% Arcane Mastery - 100% up-time 133% base boost from Arcane Mastery stacks to Chill stacks conversion. 48-96% with CP slotted - Swap for SoD on bosses. 15% encounter boost from Imperial Set. 20% debuff from RoE, constant up-time Tabbed. Abyss - ~20-30% DPS, depending on # of enemies hit. Owlbear Cub - As much as 35% DPS on Rampage's ACTs. 10% WHR ~10% up-time between Archons. Smolder - Very minimal, but still around 5-10% DPS, depending on the map. Combat Advantage via Tabbed Steal Time. 1.25x multiplier. Plus all the other Thaum buffs.
SS Thaum: eLoL - High power/crit, can be up to 30k x2 with ST. SS - 10k x2, very low chance for off-hand to proc. 48-96% CP 50% Crit Severity - Vorpal All the same buffs from companions and Thaum. Icy Veins = more Chill stacks. Owlbear still viable depending on Crit Chance, but marginally only around 5-6m DPS on our ACTs. A fraction of what you can get with low Crit build.
-----
Yes, the eLoL set is a huge bonus. SS isn't essential by any means, but we got slightly higher %'s over AI on our ACTs.
-----
We also tested the build with Icy Veins and CP+AP, but Lightning+Abyss won out every time. We also saw some strange things using Evocation. It really gimped the numbers on Steal Time, specifically. That's why we don't recommend it.
-----
Another thing worth noting is that Shard can multi-proc IC, as well. But the biggest boost to it is from Steal Time.
-----
We also have a TR friend who's been testing it out, and his DPS has increased about 15% over his PVE Executioner AoE build. Apparently they have a LOT of abilities that can multi-proc it. It gimps him elsewhere, obviously, because DEX is their master stat, but he prefers the low Crit build now.
-----
On paper and in testing, we've seen a 20% DPS increase over the cookie cutter SS Thaum. The only drawbacks are having to know how to keep your stacks up, especially if you're not using Imprisonment on Tab. AP is a median buff, as it boosts both Arcane AND Chill stack %'s. Combine that with CP and the fact that our entire rotation consists of Arcane and Cold spells, and it seems to more than balance out the loss of the eLoL set. If/when eLoL gets fixed, it'll be impossible for a cookie cutter build to compete with this one. I've seen Rampage take Paingiver from one of our best Damnation SWs and one of the more popular GWFs on ESOT. Only recently on the GWF front, mind you. The Temp HP nerf has made a lot of GWFs more conscientious about running in head-first LOL.
The real trick with this Encounter build is knowing what procs it and that Steal Time's initial tick seems to be boosted by CG and each subsequent tick procs IC. It's also important to use Shard as a buffer, rather than a damage ability, as it refreshes stacks quite consistently. You won't need a full 4-cast rotation with the cooldowns. You'll be able to spam Steal Time, Icy Terrain and Disintegrate as you wish and when the Shard finally blows up, you'll have it back by the end of the next rotation.
I'll provide some numbers when Dicky gets back on.
My fingers are hurting. Feel free to message me any time if you're curious about anything.
I'm sorry, but I still don't see it outDPSing a good SS Thaum CW, like @thefabricant . Lack of eLoL set and then seeing Imprisonment on tab somewhere, not to mention shard... Yeah no, without seeing data parses I'm not believing this...
I know someone on PC running this build, I am not sure if its the same person as you, Cyler@oria1, it definitely does not do more damage than SS thaum, I can say that from running with him and from testing it myself (and I can count the number of CW's that hit as hard or harder than me when I am specced for dps on 1 hand, normally, I prefer to run non damage specs though). With that being said, it is still a completely viable build and it is certainly fun to mess around with. In fact, if you look in my CW guide, you should find a similar support MoF build that uses the owlbear as its primary source of damage, appendix 4 I believe.
Rampage actually got the idea from one of Chem's old formulas, and I tweaked a couple things myself using your aforementioned appendix, as you could probably tell. Do you know what rotation Cyler's running? I've noticed everything has to been in alignment for the DPS to be maximized. I implore you to test it as we've written it out. It's a very gear-oriented and if even one thing's out of place, the favor will scale towards a Crit build.
I'll invite you and you can run a CN or ETOS with us tomorrow.
It's a HAMSTER transition, because you literally have to change every single piece of gear to make it viable. We've spent hundreds of hours testing and honing it and when we duo, I run Lathander's and he runs Imperial. I'll be switching over this next x2 RP.
Also, feel free to have Cyler contact me. I'm always looking to compare notes/builds.
It's a build of love, as I said. After meticulous testing, the gear/feats/powers from loadout 1 are a must for personal DPS.
The damage is as follows:
Min/max - 28k power (without augment). 70% damage bonus 110% cooldown reduction+Spell Twisting=Constant encounter spamming. (Really hard to calculate this into DPS, but I have 0s cooldowns on proper rotations and minimal cooldowns using Imprisonment. The same can never be said for a low recovery build. ~50-60% faster dailies over an SS Thaum/Ren, especially because of AP off-hand. 15% constant damage - Wheel (average) 15% Arcane Mastery - 100% up-time 133% base boost from Arcane Mastery stacks to Chill stacks conversion. 48-96% with CP slotted - Swap for SoD on bosses. 15% encounter boost from Imperial Set. 20% debuff from RoE, constant up-time Tabbed. Abyss - ~20-30% DPS, depending on # of enemies hit. Owlbear Cub - As much as 35% DPS on Rampage's ACTs. 10% WHR ~10% up-time between Archons. Smolder - Very minimal, but still around 5-10% DPS, depending on the map. Combat Advantage via Tabbed Steal Time. 1.25x multiplier. Plus all the other Thaum buffs.
SS Thaum: eLoL - High power/crit, can be up to 30k x2 with ST. SS - 10k x2, very low chance for off-hand to proc. 48-96% CP 50% Crit Severity - Vorpal All the same buffs from companions and Thaum. Icy Veins = more Chill stacks. Owlbear still viable depending on Crit Chance, but marginally only around 5-6m DPS on our ACTs. A fraction of what you can get with low Crit build.
-----
Yes, the eLoL set is a huge bonus. SS isn't essential by any means, but we got slightly higher %'s over AI on our ACTs.
-----
We also tested the build with Icy Veins and CP+AP, but Lightning+Abyss won out every time. We also saw some strange things using Evocation. It really gimped the numbers on Steal Time, specifically. That's why we don't recommend it.
-----
Another thing worth noting is that Shard can multi-proc IC, as well. But the biggest boost to it is from Steal Time.
-----
We also have a TR friend who's been testing it out, and his DPS has increased about 15% over his PVE Executioner AoE build. Apparently they have a LOT of abilities that can multi-proc it. It gimps him elsewhere, obviously, because DEX is their master stat, but he prefers the low Crit build now.
-----
On paper and in testing, we've seen a 20% DPS increase over the cookie cutter SS Thaum. The only drawbacks are having to know how to keep your stacks up, especially if you're not using Imprisonment on Tab. AP is a median buff, as it boosts both Arcane AND Chill stack %'s. Combine that with CP and the fact that our entire rotation consists of Arcane and Cold spells, and it seems to more than balance out the loss of the eLoL set. If/when eLoL gets fixed, it'll be impossible for a cookie cutter build to compete with this one. I've seen Rampage take Paingiver from one of our best Damnation SWs and one of the more popular GWFs on ESOT. Only recently on the GWF front, mind you. The Temp HP nerf has made a lot of GWFs more conscientious about running in head-first LOL.
The real trick with this Encounter build is knowing what procs it and that Steal Time's initial tick seems to be boosted by CG and each subsequent tick procs IC. It's also important to use Shard as a buffer, rather than a damage ability, as it refreshes stacks quite consistently. You won't need a full 4-cast rotation with the cooldowns. You'll be able to spam Steal Time, Icy Terrain and Disintegrate as you wish and when the Shard finally blows up, you'll have it back by the end of the next rotation.
I'll provide some numbers when Dicky gets back on.
My fingers are hurting. Feel free to message me any time if you're curious about anything.
I'm sorry, but I still don't see it outDPSing a good SS Thaum CW, like @thefabricant . Lack of eLoL set and then seeing Imprisonment on tab somewhere, not to mention shard... Yeah no, without seeing data parses I'm not believing this...
The Imprisonment method acts as a buffer. Instant 15% damage buff cast+release. As I said, it's only situational. It's possible (quite easily) to keep your stacks full using Shard+OF, but that's a much trickier situation. If you had told me this a month ago, I would've laughed. But the day I got out-DPSed by a 3.4k CW on my 4k, 70% Crit Chance SS Thaum, I took notice. I can't provide logs since, as I said, I'm waiting for x2 RP to change some gear around, but I'll have him get on and post his logs here. Or better yet, I'll see if he can't cap a vid.
0
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
I know someone on PC running this build, I am not sure if its the same person as you, Cyler@oria1, it definitely does not do more damage than SS thaum, I can say that from running with him and from testing it myself (and I can count the number of CW's that hit as hard or harder than me when I am specced for dps on 1 hand, normally, I prefer to run non damage specs though). With that being said, it is still a completely viable build and it is certainly fun to mess around with. In fact, if you look in my CW guide, you should find a similar support MoF build that uses the owlbear as its primary source of damage, appendix 4 I believe.
Rampage actually got the idea from one of Chem's old formulas, and I tweaked a couple things myself using your aforementioned appendix, as you could probably tell. Do you know what rotation Cyler's running? I've noticed everything has to been in alignment for the DPS to be maximized. I implore you to test it as we've written it out. It's a very gear-oriented and if even one thing's out of place, the favor will scale towards a Crit build.
I'll invite you and you can run a CN or ETOS with us tomorrow.
It's a HAMSTER transition, because you literally have to change every single piece of gear to make it viable. We've spent hundreds of hours testing and honing it and when we duo, I run Lathander's and he runs Imperial. I'll be switching over this next x2 RP.
Also, feel free to have Cyler contact me. I'm always looking to compare notes/builds.
It's a build of love, as I said. After meticulous testing, the gear/feats/powers from loadout 1 are a must for personal DPS.
The damage is as follows:
Min/max - 28k power (without augment). 70% damage bonus 110% cooldown reduction+Spell Twisting=Constant encounter spamming. (Really hard to calculate this into DPS, but I have 0s cooldowns on proper rotations and minimal cooldowns using Imprisonment. The same can never be said for a low recovery build. ~50-60% faster dailies over an SS Thaum/Ren, especially because of AP off-hand. 15% constant damage - Wheel (average) 15% Arcane Mastery - 100% up-time 133% base boost from Arcane Mastery stacks to Chill stacks conversion. 48-96% with CP slotted - Swap for SoD on bosses. 15% encounter boost from Imperial Set. 20% debuff from RoE, constant up-time Tabbed. Abyss - ~20-30% DPS, depending on # of enemies hit. Owlbear Cub - As much as 35% DPS on Rampage's ACTs. 10% WHR ~10% up-time between Archons. Smolder - Very minimal, but still around 5-10% DPS, depending on the map. Combat Advantage via Tabbed Steal Time. 1.25x multiplier. Plus all the other Thaum buffs.
SS Thaum: eLoL - High power/crit, can be up to 30k x2 with ST. SS - 10k x2, very low chance for off-hand to proc. 48-96% CP 50% Crit Severity - Vorpal All the same buffs from companions and Thaum. Icy Veins = more Chill stacks. Owlbear still viable depending on Crit Chance, but marginally only around 5-6m DPS on our ACTs. A fraction of what you can get with low Crit build.
-----
Yes, the eLoL set is a huge bonus. SS isn't essential by any means, but we got slightly higher %'s over AI on our ACTs.
-----
We also tested the build with Icy Veins and CP+AP, but Lightning+Abyss won out every time. We also saw some strange things using Evocation. It really gimped the numbers on Steal Time, specifically. That's why we don't recommend it.
-----
Another thing worth noting is that Shard can multi-proc IC, as well. But the biggest boost to it is from Steal Time.
-----
We also have a TR friend who's been testing it out, and his DPS has increased about 15% over his PVE Executioner AoE build. Apparently they have a LOT of abilities that can multi-proc it. It gimps him elsewhere, obviously, because DEX is their master stat, but he prefers the low Crit build now.
-----
On paper and in testing, we've seen a 20% DPS increase over the cookie cutter SS Thaum. The only drawbacks are having to know how to keep your stacks up, especially if you're not using Imprisonment on Tab. AP is a median buff, as it boosts both Arcane AND Chill stack %'s. Combine that with CP and the fact that our entire rotation consists of Arcane and Cold spells, and it seems to more than balance out the loss of the eLoL set. If/when eLoL gets fixed, it'll be impossible for a cookie cutter build to compete with this one. I've seen Rampage take Paingiver from one of our best Damnation SWs and one of the more popular GWFs on ESOT. Only recently on the GWF front, mind you. The Temp HP nerf has made a lot of GWFs more conscientious about running in head-first LOL.
The real trick with this Encounter build is knowing what procs it and that Steal Time's initial tick seems to be boosted by CG and each subsequent tick procs IC. It's also important to use Shard as a buffer, rather than a damage ability, as it refreshes stacks quite consistently. You won't need a full 4-cast rotation with the cooldowns. You'll be able to spam Steal Time, Icy Terrain and Disintegrate as you wish and when the Shard finally blows up, you'll have it back by the end of the next rotation.
I'll provide some numbers when Dicky gets back on.
My fingers are hurting. Feel free to message me any time if you're curious about anything.
I'm sorry, but I still don't see it outDPSing a good SS Thaum CW, like @thefabricant . Lack of eLoL set and then seeing Imprisonment on tab somewhere, not to mention shard... Yeah no, without seeing data parses I'm not believing this...
The Imprisonment method acts as a buffer. Instant 15% damage buff cast+release. As I said, it's only situational. It's possible (quite easily) to keep your stacks full using Shard+OF, but that's a much trickier situation. If you had told me this a month ago, I would've laughed. But the day I got out-DPSed by a 3.4k CW on my 4k, 70% Crit Chance SS Thaum, I took notice. I can't provide logs since, as I said, I'm waiting for x2 RP to change some gear around, but I'll have him get on and post his logs here. Or better yet, I'll see if he can't cap a vid.
Without seeing actual ACT logs of what constitutes "20% more DPS", it's hard to evaluate. And I don't need to see a video, I'd like to see the ACT logs. And it would even better if you could utilize the Preview Server to do what @thefabricant does and provide a baseline versus the new build.
If you guys have spent hundreds of hours testing this, it'd be nice to see more data.
I know someone on PC running this build, I am not sure if its the same person as you, Cyler@oria1, it definitely does not do more damage than SS thaum, I can say that from running with him and from testing it myself (and I can count the number of CW's that hit as hard or harder than me when I am specced for dps on 1 hand, normally, I prefer to run non damage specs though). With that being said, it is still a completely viable build and it is certainly fun to mess around with. In fact, if you look in my CW guide, you should find a similar support MoF build that uses the owlbear as its primary source of damage, appendix 4 I believe.
Rampage actually got the idea from one of Chem's old formulas, and I tweaked a couple things myself using your aforementioned appendix, as you could probably tell. Do you know what rotation Cyler's running? I've noticed everything has to been in alignment for the DPS to be maximized. I implore you to test it as we've written it out. It's a very gear-oriented and if even one thing's out of place, the favor will scale towards a Crit build.
I'll invite you and you can run a CN or ETOS with us tomorrow.
It's a HAMSTER transition, because you literally have to change every single piece of gear to make it viable. We've spent hundreds of hours testing and honing it and when we duo, I run Lathander's and he runs Imperial. I'll be switching over this next x2 RP.
Also, feel free to have Cyler contact me. I'm always looking to compare notes/builds.
It's a build of love, as I said. After meticulous testing, the gear/feats/powers from loadout 1 are a must for personal DPS.
The damage is as follows:
Min/max - 28k power (without augment). 70% damage bonus 110% cooldown reduction+Spell Twisting=Constant encounter spamming. (Really hard to calculate this into DPS, but I have 0s cooldowns on proper rotations and minimal cooldowns using Imprisonment. The same can never be said for a low recovery build. ~50-60% faster dailies over an SS Thaum/Ren, especially because of AP off-hand. 15% constant damage - Wheel (average) 15% Arcane Mastery - 100% up-time 133% base boost from Arcane Mastery stacks to Chill stacks conversion. 48-96% with CP slotted - Swap for SoD on bosses. 15% encounter boost from Imperial Set. 20% debuff from RoE, constant up-time Tabbed. Abyss - ~20-30% DPS, depending on # of enemies hit. Owlbear Cub - As much as 35% DPS on Rampage's ACTs. 10% WHR ~10% up-time between Archons. Smolder - Very minimal, but still around 5-10% DPS, depending on the map. Combat Advantage via Tabbed Steal Time. 1.25x multiplier. Plus all the other Thaum buffs.
SS Thaum: eLoL - High power/crit, can be up to 30k x2 with ST. SS - 10k x2, very low chance for off-hand to proc. 48-96% CP 50% Crit Severity - Vorpal All the same buffs from companions and Thaum. Icy Veins = more Chill stacks. Owlbear still viable depending on Crit Chance, but marginally only around 5-6m DPS on our ACTs. A fraction of what you can get with low Crit build.
-----
Yes, the eLoL set is a huge bonus. SS isn't essential by any means, but we got slightly higher %'s over AI on our ACTs.
-----
We also tested the build with Icy Veins and CP+AP, but Lightning+Abyss won out every time. We also saw some strange things using Evocation. It really gimped the numbers on Steal Time, specifically. That's why we don't recommend it.
-----
Another thing worth noting is that Shard can multi-proc IC, as well. But the biggest boost to it is from Steal Time.
-----
We also have a TR friend who's been testing it out, and his DPS has increased about 15% over his PVE Executioner AoE build. Apparently they have a LOT of abilities that can multi-proc it. It gimps him elsewhere, obviously, because DEX is their master stat, but he prefers the low Crit build now.
-----
On paper and in testing, we've seen a 20% DPS increase over the cookie cutter SS Thaum. The only drawbacks are having to know how to keep your stacks up, especially if you're not using Imprisonment on Tab. AP is a median buff, as it boosts both Arcane AND Chill stack %'s. Combine that with CP and the fact that our entire rotation consists of Arcane and Cold spells, and it seems to more than balance out the loss of the eLoL set. If/when eLoL gets fixed, it'll be impossible for a cookie cutter build to compete with this one. I've seen Rampage take Paingiver from one of our best Damnation SWs and one of the more popular GWFs on ESOT. Only recently on the GWF front, mind you. The Temp HP nerf has made a lot of GWFs more conscientious about running in head-first LOL.
The real trick with this Encounter build is knowing what procs it and that Steal Time's initial tick seems to be boosted by CG and each subsequent tick procs IC. It's also important to use Shard as a buffer, rather than a damage ability, as it refreshes stacks quite consistently. You won't need a full 4-cast rotation with the cooldowns. You'll be able to spam Steal Time, Icy Terrain and Disintegrate as you wish and when the Shard finally blows up, you'll have it back by the end of the next rotation.
I'll provide some numbers when Dicky gets back on.
My fingers are hurting. Feel free to message me any time if you're curious about anything.
I'm sorry, but I still don't see it outDPSing a good SS Thaum CW, like @thefabricant . Lack of eLoL set and then seeing Imprisonment on tab somewhere, not to mention shard... Yeah no, without seeing data parses I'm not believing this...
The Imprisonment method acts as a buffer. Instant 15% damage buff cast+release. As I said, it's only situational. It's possible (quite easily) to keep your stacks full using Shard+OF, but that's a much trickier situation. If you had told me this a month ago, I would've laughed. But the day I got out-DPSed by a 3.4k CW on my 4k, 70% Crit Chance SS Thaum, I took notice. I can't provide logs since, as I said, I'm waiting for x2 RP to change some gear around, but I'll have him get on and post his logs here. Or better yet, I'll see if he can't cap a vid.
He can always run something with me
Yeah, if you do a run with me @thefabricant and a couple of our other friends we can run ACT as well. My 3.2k Thaum CW outDPSes a 4k Thaum CW in my guild. Not all CWs are equally skilled, build makes a difference, but a lot of it is the player as well. For some reason, @thefabricant probably outDPSes me 80% of the time when are using the same build.
Comments
The thing is with mof ren, when u pug, and pugs see ur dmg, u may be in real troubles, usually arguments like "but coz of me u r doing 100% more dmg" dont work on them, and u may simply get kicked when they will be searching for some1 to blame for wipes etc. Its great choice for premades, when u take de/buffbot GF, de/buffbot DC, de/buffbot OP and de/buffbot cw, all 4 working for one pure dps toon, results outshine by miles any 3-5 dps groups, but as far as gf, op, or dc wont get kicked from group for doing low dmg, cw have chance for that (ops u rolled 1).
About artis, first of all coz of stats, lantern has one of the best ones for dps, also has one the best actives in endgame content (like edemo, when 10 ppl takes advantage of lantern debuff and deals 16% more dmg. Waters from the other hand have good stats for buffbot like gf, for other classes i would still take lantern. Aurora is meh, i think it didnt even get updated with newest potions, if it would, it would be nice 5th arti to have, just for some exclusives from shop, and it was at some point, but now its big naaaaah.
PS, sorry for hijacking ur threat zerg. xD
(Sin)cerely
Kain
The Realm catalog has atrocious stats, and the Lantern of Revelation that you can choose as a reward from that quest can serve as a great artifact in most endgame builds. Mine has been upgraded to mythic.
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Thaumaturge's Time To Shine: A Complete Guide
There are some OP builds that can outDPS 99% of CWs. Hell, I've seen an OP fighting the black dragon in SH drop its HP 20% in one hit.
|| Axios Guild Leader || Neverwinter Trade Forum Moderator || Infernal Paragons ||
Check out my foundry, titled "Akro's Gone Wacko", featuring our ex-CM Akromatik!: NW-DL8J7BY5T
Erza Moonstalker | Lara Moonstalker | Julie Marvell | Erza Moonhunter | Annie Hellangel | Jenn Moonstalker
Thaumaturge's Time To Shine: A Complete Guide
>
> There are some OP builds that can outDPS 99% of CWs. Hell, I've seen an OP fighting the black dragon in SH drop its HP 20% in one hit.
That was probably a lucky binding oath.
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> > @katamaster81899 said:
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> >
> > There are some OP builds that can outDPS 99% of CWs. Hell, I've seen an OP fighting the black dragon in SH drop its HP 20% in one hit.
>
> That was probably a lucky binding oath.
>
>
the only way that is possible is with a lagadin who exploits the games mechanics.
I'd argue that this isn't true, however, I haven't played it on Xbox since the closed Alpha way back when.
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Thaumaturge's Time To Shine: A Complete Guide
Thank you very much for make this guide!
I have two question:
1) Is it guide actually now(27 of february 2016) or not?
2) If i will translate this guide for Russian language, author not prohibit?
@ tanatos, I read through and checked everything and the guide appears to be up to date.
Regarding the build: working fine and a lot of fun. I do have to pay attention sometimes, but that applies to most classes. Using a healer companion and find there are a few times when that helps (e.g. lag bumps, brain farts, etc). However, when I hit level 45 things slowed down ... I am spending a lot of time looting now
Thank you again for the excellent guide and feedback. Happy hunting.
I'm going to be testing a high Power, low Crit MoF Thaum/Abyss using the Owlbear Cub, Lightning Enchantment and an Imperial or Black Ice set. It's a hefty venture, but I've seen with my own eyes the ridiculous numbers you can crank out with this setup.
The basis of this build is:
-Despite what some people (who don't have one) say, the Owlbear Cub procs off of every hit of an AoE. For CWs, this turns Steal Time and a few other encounters into godly encounters and IS boosted by outside sources (Companion's Gift, Rings of Rising Power and Brutality, Cleric/GF buffs, Black Ice Warhorse). However, it's not boosted by potions.
-It procs off of every single hit of Abyss of Chaos. The Paragon feat by itself only does around 5-6k damage. By itself, not that impressive. But since the Lightning Enchantment procs off of each hit and acts like an encounter, it also procs Infantile Compensation with each target hit by Abyss of Chaos/Lightning Enchantment.
-The reason I'm going MoF on this build is because the Owlbear Cub active ability procs on the first hit of every Smolder/Rimfire. And since SS is crit dependent, I would get no benefit from it running this low crit build.
-This build also frees us up from the benefits of Dragonborn and Tiefling and is maximized by going Human. We want to avoid Charisma at all costs. And this also gives us those 3 extra precious Feat points to max out Learned Spellcaster and Focused Wizardry.
The only downside to this build is we can't use Icy Veins under any circumstances and Critical Conflagration is kind of a waste, but I'll test it out. It might be handy just for Smolder/Rimfire purposes, but since Infantile Compensation can only proc on the initial DoT hit, I may just avoid it altogether. I'm leaning towards running Arcane Presence and Swath of Destruction, since I should be able to spam Fanning the Flame enough (every 4 seconds by my calculations), considering Arcane Presence gives a 25% Recharge Speed reduction (with off-hand bonus) and my Recovery will essentially be replacing my Crit with this build. 25% from Arcane Presence+24% from high INT+10% from WIS (since we're avoiding CHA)+10k Recovery (55% if my calculations are correct)+Spell Twisting.
It provides superior damage on paper in every conceivable way over any crit build. And I've seen a buddy running this build on a 3.4k CW on an MoF Thaum and he consistently out-damages my 4k 72% Crit SS Thaum/Icy Veins build by ~20% every time we run anything.
He also runs a Wild Hunt Rider, Air Archon, Fire Archon and a Lightfoot Thief as a summoned companion.
Also, the Owlbear Cub is godly on Stronghold Siege. The damage seems to be irresistible and he can take out some people with a single Steal Time, especially if it procs Assailant lol.
Sorry for the rant. I just felt you deserved an in-depth response to your question.
I actually like the way you think, seriously. To tell you the truth, I'm totally bored out of my skull with my own build. You've piqued my curiosity, and I'd love to explore some of the theory you're laying down.
I'm currently at running:
MoF (since there's absolutely NO benefit for a SS with no crit) Thaum
Feats:
Controlling Action: 2/3
Toughness: 3/3
Fight On: 2/2
Wizard's Wrath: 3/3
Arcane Enhancement: 3/3
Blighting Power: 2/3
Learned Spellcaster: 5/5
Prestidigitation: 3/3
Paragon:
Tempest Magic: 5/5
Malevolent Surge: 5/5
Elemental Reinforcement: 5/5
Spell Twisting: 5/5
Elemental Empowerment: 5/5
Assailing Force: 1/1
Reaper's Touch: 5/5 (No point in taking Critical Power, since we don't crit)
Arcane Burst: 5/5 (This adds one stack of Arcane Mastery even with a quick cast)
Abyss of Chaos: 5/5
I didn't go Icy Veins, because there's no place for Chilling Presence with this build.
I re-rolled for a high INT (21), lowest WIS (13 base) and lowest CHA (11) and then stacked INT and WIS with my points. If I could get CHA lower, I would. That 3% from Prestidigitation seemed to outweigh the benefits, since it's not a static number. 3% Power+Companion's Gift can be 3-4k extra power. I may consider re-rolling a Moon Elf or Sun Elf later, but I don't know.
Powers:
Class Features:
Arcane Presence (Always)
Chilling Presence for groups, Swath of Destruction for groups/solo/boss fights. You could slot Critical Conflagration here if you need to apply Smolder, but you'll almost never be applying Rimfire and the Crit Severity is a complete waste. Chlling Presence is still an outstanding buff for Icy Terrain and Chill Strike, but you have to weigh the pros and cons. If you can adapt without Icy Terrain, Swath of Destruction is definitely the way to go.
*Smolder is such an insignificant part of your damage here. The only beneficial time for it, will be boss fights and when you're able to attack a pack of enemies with a fully charged Scorching Burst.
Rotations:
Solo/Small Dungeons:
1.
Tab: Steal Time. (Controversial? Yup. But on Tab, Steal Time gives you Combat Advantage and a Run Speed buff that's based off of how much time is stolen (how many enemies/how long of a cast you get off) and boosted by Arcane Mastery. For this build, you'll almost always have full Combat Advantage. It's for the whole group, too! A huge reason many people go Renegade in the first place. And since we're stacking Recovery as a secondary stat, the recast time is as short as Disintegrate on a low Recovery build! Another function, albeit super cheap, is that Steal Time can be cancelled after 4 ticks, cast 1 At-Will and it's ready to recast again. This takes patience, but if done right, you can get more DPS with that one skill+Owlbear proc than anyone else would get with it. It's been tested against low crit HRs and CWs get around 40% more benefit than an HR spamming his short rotations.)
Shard of the Endless Avalanche (Another controversial choice. The basis: Summoning a Shard and not launching it builds and refreshes Arcane Mastery stacks. It's also great damage (since we're building for Arcane Mastery) and can act is a makeshift life saver if you get overwhelmed.
Disintegrate (Arcane Based damage, hits like a truck with high stacks (over 150k non-crits solo. It also acts as an activator for Spell Twisting, since it's got the shortest cast time of any of the viable powers.)
Icy Terrain (Since Arcane Presence also boosts the damage of cold-based powers, it'd be silly not to run this.)
At-Wills:
Magic Missile (This is an arcane build, after all.)
Scorching Burst (For boss rights and small groups to keep Smolder going)
Dailies:
Oppressive Force (Builds Arcane Mastery stacks)
Furious Immolation (CC that works very well with our rotation, especially Shard. It also applies Smolder.)
Since this build runs a decent WIS/high Recovery, I find I'm getting my Daily every 1 1/2 rotations. It's very easy to alternate these 2 dailies on tougher bosses and packs of enemies and keep your Arcane Mastery stacks and Smolder going.
Group/Big Dungeons:
Tab: Imprisonment (Cast on an enemy and immediately release him. This gives you 4 instant stacks of Arcane Mastery and since it's Tabbed, the cooldown time is only around 12 seconds. Rampage has his down to around 8 seconds, but I haven't gotten my Recovery that high yet.)
You could also use Steal Time for the Tab here, but your DPS will benefit more from Imprisonment, since no other source can give you that many instantaneous stacks of Arcane Mastery.
Icy Terrain (I will never remove this from my rotation lol.)
Steal Time (If you choose not to Tab it.)
Shard of the Endless Avalanche (I'd recommend this for large packs over Disintegrate, the cooldown isn't instant like Disintegrate, but with a high Recovery (mine's 52% currently), a max INT (23%), WIS (12%) and Spell Twisting (40%), trust me, you'll barely have to wait to recast Shard if you do your rotations correctly.)
Same At-Wills, Class Features and Dailies. You don't need Chilling Cloud or Ice Knife, since you won't be casting many At-Wills at all and Ice Knife does pretty crappy damage with this build.
Bosses:
Tab: Imprisonment or Ray of Enfeeblement. (All bosses are immune to the effects of Imprisonment, but it still gives you those fast stacks for high burst damage. Ray of Enfeeblement gives you a 20% debuff and lowers their Mitigation. It's probably the best DPS debuff in the game. And with this build, you can cast both Tabbed charges of it VERY quickly.)
Disintegrate (Our hardest hitting skill for single-target. Hits much harder than it does on any Ice builds.)
Steal Time (This is still our damage king, because of the Owlbear Cub procs.)
Chill Strike (Has better damage than Icy Rays and has an almost instant cooldown. You could also use Icy Terrain to build "some" chill stacks, but I prefer Chill Strike because it allows me to keep my distance and not have to worry about getting downed.)
Same At-Wills, Class Feats and Dailies as above.
This build is one of love, like I expressed earlier. If you haven't truly mastered the CW, this isn't your build. There isn't anything cookie cutter about it and you won't be getting used to the same rotation for everything. It's definitely a throwback to before Mod 4, but I promise you, once you get it down, you'll fall in love with your CW again. You WILL have to master this, but you'll love it. Once you see your Steal Times hitting for 75k x8 + 15k-100k Owlbear Cub procs, you'll understand it.
Boons: I'm not going to list them all, but avoid Crit and choose them as you would any other DPS Thaum.
I would recommend out of personal preference, taking Elven Tranquility over Elven Ferocity in the Sharandar boons, as it seems to proc much more frequently and that 20k heal can save your HAMSTER.
And if you go the Steal Time cancellation route, Stamina will be your best friend. I'm currently running an Elven Enchant for 30% Stamina (@thefabricant showed me the way on that), a Gas Spore companion for 20%, and all possible Stamina boons with the exception of Elven Resolve.
Enchants:
Radiant and Silvery will be your primary. Slot in some Dark if your Armor Penetration isn't at 57%. (You'll get the other 3% from a boon.)
Dark in every defense slot.
Dark in every utility
Companions:
Summoned:
I alternate between a Legendary Mercenary for groups and a Legendary Yeti for soloing. A lot of people also run Legendary Zhentarim Warlocks and Lightfoot Thieves for group play, but any of those 3 will suffice. The Lightfoot Thief is STILL broken, which is the only reason I'm using the Mercenary instead of him.
Owlbear Cub is a key component of this build.
I'm also running Air/Fire/Earth archons. A lot of people don't like the Earth archon, but with my Lifesteal chance at 20%, I'm generally always at full health.
Depending on the situation, I'll swap him out for the Cantankerous Mage. You really notice the CC on Steal Time and Shard with him.
Benefits:
-Not cookie cutter.
-More damage than SS Thaum if you master it.
-Second to none for personal DPS CW builds.
-No more hearing the HAMSTER "you're being greedy and not helping the group and only going for personal DPS" comments. This build gives both. (Combat Advantage from Steal Time, Run Speed (it's on par with GF if you time it right), allowing the other players to get to mobs quicker, the 20% group damage buff from Swatch of Destruction and 20% group damage from Ray of Enfeeblement. It's definitely on par with Chaos Magic, minus the heal.)
Cons:
-Hard to master.
-You have to intentionally gear for low crit, which can be frustrating.
-Conduit of Ice is one of the worst skills to use for this build. The damage is laughable and we're building Arcane Mastery stacks here, not Chill stacks. And since won't be benefiting from the eLoL set and Spell Storm and Smolder don't matter here, there isn't any real benefit to using this skill. Also, with all the speed run content right now, you rarely find time to get it off before mobs are killed.
I'll invite you and you can run a CN or ETOS with us tomorrow.
It's a HAMSTER transition, because you literally have to change every single piece of gear to make it viable. We've spent hundreds of hours testing and honing it and when we duo, I run Lathander's and he runs Imperial. I'll be switching over this next x2 RP.
Also, feel free to have Cyler contact me. I'm always looking to compare notes/builds.
It's a build of love, as I said. After meticulous testing, the gear/feats/powers from loadout 1 are a must for personal DPS.
The damage is as follows:
Min/max - 28k power (without augment). 70% damage bonus
110% cooldown reduction+Spell Twisting=Constant encounter spamming. (Really hard to calculate this into DPS, but I have 0s cooldowns on proper rotations and minimal cooldowns using Imprisonment. The same can never be said for a low recovery build.
~50-60% faster dailies over an SS Thaum/Ren, especially because of AP off-hand.
15% constant damage - Wheel (average)
15% Arcane Mastery - 100% up-time
133% base boost from Arcane Mastery stacks to Chill stacks conversion.
48-96% with CP slotted - Swap for SoD on bosses.
15% encounter boost from Imperial Set.
20% debuff from RoE, constant up-time Tabbed.
Abyss - ~20-30% DPS, depending on # of enemies hit.
Owlbear Cub - As much as 35% DPS on Rampage's ACTs.
10% WHR
~10% up-time between Archons.
Smolder - Very minimal, but still around 5-10% DPS, depending on the map.
Combat Advantage via Tabbed Steal Time. 1.25x multiplier.
Plus all the other Thaum buffs.
SS Thaum:
eLoL - High power/crit, can be up to 30k x2 with ST.
SS - 10k x2, very low chance for off-hand to proc.
48-96% CP
50% Crit Severity - Vorpal
All the same buffs from companions and Thaum.
Icy Veins = more Chill stacks.
Owlbear still viable depending on Crit Chance, but marginally only around 5-6m DPS on our ACTs. A fraction of what you can get with low Crit build.
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Yes, the eLoL set is a huge bonus. SS isn't essential by any means, but we got slightly higher %'s over AI on our ACTs.
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We also tested the build with Icy Veins and CP+AP, but Lightning+Abyss won out every time. We also saw some strange things using Evocation. It really gimped the numbers on Steal Time, specifically. That's why we don't recommend it.
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Another thing worth noting is that Shard can multi-proc IC, as well. But the biggest boost to it is from Steal Time.
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We also have a TR friend who's been testing it out, and his DPS has increased about 15% over his PVE Executioner AoE build. Apparently they have a LOT of abilities that can multi-proc it. It gimps him elsewhere, obviously, because DEX is their master stat, but he prefers the low Crit build now.
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On paper and in testing, we've seen a 20% DPS increase over the cookie cutter SS Thaum. The only drawbacks are having to know how to keep your stacks up, especially if you're not using Imprisonment on Tab. AP is a median buff, as it boosts both Arcane AND Chill stack %'s. Combine that with CP and the fact that our entire rotation consists of Arcane and Cold spells, and it seems to more than balance out the loss of the eLoL set. If/when eLoL gets fixed, it'll be impossible for a cookie cutter build to compete with this one. I've seen Rampage take Paingiver from one of our best Damnation SWs and one of the more popular GWFs on ESOT. Only recently on the GWF front, mind you. The Temp HP nerf has made a lot of GWFs more conscientious about running in head-first LOL.
The real trick with this Encounter build is knowing what procs it and that Steal Time's initial tick seems to be boosted by CG and each subsequent tick procs IC. It's also important to use Shard as a buffer, rather than a damage ability, as it refreshes stacks quite consistently. You won't need a full 4-cast rotation with the cooldowns. You'll be able to spam Steal Time, Icy Terrain and Disintegrate as you wish and when the Shard finally blows up, you'll have it back by the end of the next rotation.
I'll provide some numbers when Dicky gets back on.
My fingers are hurting. Feel free to message me any time if you're curious about anything.
|| Axios Guild Leader || Neverwinter Trade Forum Moderator || Infernal Paragons ||
Check out my foundry, titled "Akro's Gone Wacko", featuring our ex-CM Akromatik!: NW-DL8J7BY5T
Erza Moonstalker | Lara Moonstalker | Julie Marvell | Erza Moonhunter | Annie Hellangel | Jenn Moonstalker
Thaumaturge's Time To Shine: A Complete Guide
Without seeing actual ACT logs of what constitutes "20% more DPS", it's hard to evaluate. And I don't need to see a video, I'd like to see the ACT logs. And it would even better if you could utilize the Preview Server to do what @thefabricant does and provide a baseline versus the new build.
If you guys have spent hundreds of hours testing this, it'd be nice to see more data.
|| Axios Guild Leader || Neverwinter Trade Forum Moderator || Infernal Paragons ||
Check out my foundry, titled "Akro's Gone Wacko", featuring our ex-CM Akromatik!: NW-DL8J7BY5T
Erza Moonstalker | Lara Moonstalker | Julie Marvell | Erza Moonhunter | Annie Hellangel | Jenn Moonstalker
Thaumaturge's Time To Shine: A Complete Guide
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
|| Axios Guild Leader || Neverwinter Trade Forum Moderator || Infernal Paragons ||
Check out my foundry, titled "Akro's Gone Wacko", featuring our ex-CM Akromatik!: NW-DL8J7BY5T
Erza Moonstalker | Lara Moonstalker | Julie Marvell | Erza Moonhunter | Annie Hellangel | Jenn Moonstalker
Thaumaturge's Time To Shine: A Complete Guide