Daze, stun, disorient.. either one is fine cause indeed Smite sounds like a heavy smackdown leaving the target shaken i.e under cc.
I agree.
Devoted Cleric's first Daily "Guardian of Faith" (Angel drops from the sky to prone target and cause massive damage) is what I call a "Smite". This daily (Guardian of Faith) should me renamed Smite, given to Paladin to replace his first daily and rename the "Smite" Encounter power to something else. Like "Skull Cleaver" or sumfin'.
Valorous Strike-bug
The tooltip lists this at will with a 5 foot cylinder range. But it still only hits one target. Not sure if that is a mistake in its listing or in the appliance of the attack. As for a single target attack, a 5 foot cylinder range is a bit redundant as when not directly aimed the character moves to attack the nearest target, regardless of where they are around him if they are in melee range of the attack. a 5 foot cylinder range implies it can hit all targets in front in a coned path like Dazing Strike rather than just giving the range like most other single target melee attacks.
Smite - Feedback The animation is much better than before, it still needs better syncing to when the actual damage is dealt, the damage is still being dealt before the strike even finishes.
Weapons-feedback
I'd like alot more variety in weapons for paladin. As some feel hammers/maces fit paladins and many other, including myself feel swords fit them. And in actuality in dnd in most guides, they advise paladins to not use maces. Though I wont dismiss maces altogether, there really needs to be an alternative to thier more advisable weapon type.
Radiant Strike - feedback
The animation of this attack sometimes spazzes out when used consecutively. Making its application kind of misleading, sometimes it shows hitting more than it actually does. In addition this at will doesnt really show good visual feedback for what it represents. Its attack is ranged outward from the player when it makes contact to an enemy, for all visual purposes, the only thing visually shown from this attack is that he's bashing one enemy with his shield, and theres no real sense of radiance from the strike at all.
Burning Light - feedback
There is no listed damage for this encounter ( which may or maynot also be a problem for the devotion variant that also heals)
Sancturary - bug This power seems still seems to sometimes not register, at times this skill will not work when shift is pressed, though it shows the character holding up thier shield, the blue aura doesnt appear and its clear you arent actually blocking as no stamina is being drained, but your character still holds up thier shield, giving the misleading interpretation you're blocking when you arent.
Sacred Weapon - feedback
There is no listed damage value for this encounters effect.
Divine's Call - feedback The visual feedback from this is much appreciated.
Divine Action - bug
Rank 1 of this heroic feat isnt adding any value to AP at all. Using Divines Call multiple times does not add 1% to AP.
Sanctuary - bug#2
Sanctuary doesnt heal allies within the zone, only yourself still from what I've tested. In and Out of party.
Bane - Feedback
The mark representing the target should be changed to another effect. A standard mark makes it very difficult to tell which target you've marked when there are fighters in the party, essentially making your mark ineffective when you cant tell which is yours, and it being an encounter power makes it easy to waste it. I dont get the sense that the mark is a holy mark, since it uses the same standard mark from both fighter's abilities. I assume and hope this is just a placeholder however. Theres also no animation of this encounter being used through the character is stuck in place for a second when using this skill as if there should be one there.
Paladin overall damage - Feedback
I've begun hitting the area in leveling where damage is beginning to fall off very early. Given Paladin is a support class by default just like the Devotion Cleric, its kind of strange the cleric can by default deal much more damage than the paladin with alot more ease, in addition to having control. Kind of finding myself slugging through basic pve monsters only if I used a select group of encounters and at wills. For anything I find myself basically just spamming Burning Light and Radiant Strike simply because we dont really have that many options in damage. Our only really good damage option is completely reliant upon our first daily (even that starts to fall off in damage post level 15 ). The reason damage is a concern is that Paladin's are the most mobility crippled, but even if they manage to get close enough to thier targets, it doesnt matter very much because the afflicting damage at close range is just very low. To deal any decent damage requires paladins to specifically have aura of courage and stack HP stats. Where the same default role of a class has multiple methods of dealing decent enough damage, and control and heal from a distance, but the same support role of the class (paladin) can only manage at close range but thier is subpar when they finally get in range.
Smite - Feedback
The damage of this skill is very very poor as you get higher in level ( it was pretty poor even fore lower levels).
Shield - feedback
I feel Paladin's shouldnt commonly have the same kind of shields Guardian Fighters have. Guardian Fighters seem to often carry Tower Shields. Paladin's should have different shield options such as Kite and Round Shields to differentiate.
After the update, I've copied feedback from my original post while making edits to them to reflect the updates made to preview and emphasis still oncurring problems and feedback.
Feedback: I'm honestly not sure if this is a bug or just further proof that I am playing on a subpar rig, probably the rig tbh, but I find the animation of Oath Strike to be almost jerky. I also notice that sometimes the mainhand weapon doesn't even appear in your hand until roughly the tail end of the first strike. But, once again, that could just be my computer. That being said, I don't really see any point in picking up Oath Strike until Paragon level due to the fact that whatever bonus radiant damage we get with the power seems to be almost negligent.
Feedback: With regards to Divine Call, any chance we could get a golden or yellow hue X over the heads of foes affected by this power? I know that puts it once more in kind of GF territory, but I'm still not really seeing anything that even suggests that foes are are affected by this power. Or, barring the yellow or golden X, could always make it a red O so GF's and OP's can amuse themselves with a friendly game of tic-tac-toe.
I expected the pally to be a front line, dynamic, mobile, high risk/reward melee type. I was excited to play this type of class, but thus far, that is not the case. The pally counterparts (the GF and DC) are much better at their respective roles, and offer more buff/debuff to their party.
This is the part that really surprises me, I really expected the pally to be a heavy buffer/debuffer. I thought the pally would be low dps and high survivability (and they are), but they would make up for it in large party buffs. This is not the case and the gf/dc both do better. The dc does a much better job in all respects and from the safety of range.
A couple of things that I think would fix the pally;
Their dps is way too low. They need to be up at least to a gf.
Burning light - each rank should lower charge time by .5secs.
Divine touch - damage is slightly higher than an at-will (way too low).
Auras - need to have their range increased to 60'. Pallys do most of their stuff at melee range meaning the ranged members of the party dont get the aura effect. Sanctuary is fine because you get a circle that you can move around and see when your party is in it.
Debuffs - like vow and bane have to benefit the entire party. A 40% damage buff to just the pally is useless.
Buffs - have to effect the entire party. Damage shields only effecting one player is crappy. This is the staple of the pally, protecting the party, having the buffs from encounters only effect the pally or one other person is terrible. It would be like the GF's Into the Fray only buffing the GF.
There could be a feat that turns the damage absorbing shields into damage reflecting shields. Giving the pally some passive damage.
The pally needs some way to engage ranged targets. My suggestion is an encounter called
Pursuit of Justice - the pally throws his shield and up to 5 opponents within a 80' range are damaged, dazed, snared and marked. The mark means any ally hitting the marked target gets a small heal and stamina buff.
This is all just my opinion. NW is still mostly a dps game. The pally has the worst dps and doesnt bring anything that another class can do better. I just dont see any compelling reason to play a pally other than its new and something different to try.
I tend to agree with you. 'Paladin' has a certain ring to it suggesting this great, heavenly powered warrior who can protect his allies, heal them to an extent and lay the smackdown on the wicked. Our Paladin does heal and can stay alive..and thats all I see from him. The Devs succeeded in making an immovable object, at least in PVE as Im sure in PVP plenty of people with high damage, ArmPen and high CC can and will destroy him.
As for party wide buffs - what possibly can they give the Pally? We already have Knight's Valor and ITF from GFs, nothing the protector Pally has can rival those 2 abilities.
Accumulation of Aggro - I saw some folks overreacting to the Pally's supposed aggro grabbing ability. Let me tell you, my lvl42 Paladin absolutely loses aggro to my basic Wizard companion if the fight lasts longer than a few seconds. I entered the Gray Wolf Den dungeon solo to test tanking and my Wizard died so many times because mobs would jump to him despite me pumping out my "insane" aoe and using my Tab flashlight as often as possible. A GF with KV on will be a better tank period. Once Paragon feats arrive we can see if there is a change to that or not.
Overall damage output of the Paladin - like many have stated the Pally's damage is ridiculously low. My best dps tool is my Aura of Courage and my best enounter takes too long to cast and too long to recharge.
Smite still needs syncing
Radiant Strike needs to stop using the shield slam animation twice - this seriously breaks the flow of combat
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
I tend to agree with you. 'Paladin' has a certain ring to it suggesting this great, heavenly powered warrior who can protect his allies, heal them to an extent and lay the smackdown on the wicked. Our Paladin does heal and can stay alive..and thats all I see from him. The Devs succeeded in making an immovable object, at least in PVE as Im sure in PVP plenty of people with high damage, ArmPen and high CC can and will destroy him.
As for party wide buffs - what possibly can they give the Pally? We already have Knight's Valor and ITF from GFs, nothing the protector Pally has can rival those 2 abilities.
Accumulation of Aggro - I saw some folks overreacting to the Pally's supposed aggro grabbing ability. Let me tell you, my lvl42 Paladin absolutely loses aggro to my basic Wizard companion if the fight lasts longer than a few seconds. I entered the Gray Wolf Den dungeon solo to test tanking and my Wizard died so many times because mobs would jump to him despite me pumping out my "insane" aoe and using my Tab flashlight as often as possible. A GF with KV on will be a better tank period. Once Paragon feats arrive we can see if there is a change to that or not.
Overall damage output of the Paladin - like many have stated the Pally's damage is ridiculously low. My best dps tool is my Aura of Courage and my best enounter takes too long to cast and too long to recharge.
Smite still needs syncing
Radiant Strike needs to stop using the shield slam animation twice - this seriously breaks the flow of combat
Feedback : 500% threat is nothing if you can only hit 200- 1000 and maximum crit 3000 dmg Vs 100000 -250000 dmg cuz 200 *5 is will only make 1000 dmg as threat on her current stat prot pally will not do they job .
The same issue happened on eraly beta when GF cannot hold the agro vs DC and CW.
Somone need to realise tank and support classes dps from 1-10 are in 1-3 dps and controll classes dps are in top 9-10.
So i think pally need some dps boost and superb 10000% threat boost also her brothers GF & GWF need much more threat boost. W/o LS 5 man pt will need healer and tank how can hold the agro.
Bug with two GF's skills "Threating rush" and "Linging strike" (names may be not accurate).
During a jump GF sometimes hangs in the air. I assume that because of target comes out of the initial coverage skills. After each delay coverage updated.
You really need to post these in the Actual Guardian Fighter feedback thread. This is Oathbound Paladin Overall Paladin Feedback:
In addition to the previous posts. The Paladin is performing pretty subpar further in. It cant deal decent enough damage, and the lack of abilties in choice to do damage, cant hold threat well at all. (worse than GF's in beta and release in terms of threat holding) and its buffing abilities arent really all that great.
As I mentioned in my feedback. A DC who shares the same support roles as Paladin, does everything better than the paladin in damage (no matter the spec) and healing and buffing, with the addition of doing all of that at range. And the GF as a tank spec can take damage, deal decent damage, and buff party members better as well but being being more mobile.
Right now the Paladin feels lack luster as its only means of offense is melee range, but when he/she gets into melee range, they simply tickle. Thier only means of dealing damage relies on a single daily and a single area encounter thats a dot. Thats it. Even the older version of DC's had much more to work with and were in a better position than Paladin's right now.
I've now levelled a Palladin to 31 (just started Helm's Hold). Overall it's a fun class with some fun gameplay. I don't mind the lowish DPS overall as even with minimal twinking (just a few hand-me-down L4 enchants) I can still one-shot groups of minions with Templar's Wrath. However, I would say that Smite is woefully underpowered. The animation looks like a huge overhead bash but on anything other than a minion the damage is almost unnoticeable on the primary target and completely unnoticeable on surrounding mobs. This encounter needs a significant buff IMO. Similarly, At-Wills seem overly weak even against low level mobs.
Of course it may be that the Paragon feats will significantly change things up.
I've now levelled a Palladin to 31 (just started Helm's Hold). Overall it's a fun class with some fun gameplay. I don't mind the lowish DPS overall as even with minimal twinking (just a few hand-me-down L4 enchants) I can still one-shot groups of minions with Templar's Wrath. However, I would say that Smite is woefully underpowered. The animation looks like a huge overhead bash but on anything other than a minion the damage is almost unnoticeable on the primary target and completely unnoticeable on surrounding mobs. This encounter needs a significant buff IMO. Similarly, At-Wills seem overly weak even against low level mobs.
Of course it may be that the Paragon feats will significantly change things up.
Smite's damage is still unnoticeable at lvl 45 with all rank 9 Radiants slotted
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Paladin now at 61, how i feel about the Paladin so far.
Can stacks Tonnes of HP, im at around 65k HP right now but certainly noticed the Drop in Damage Resistance thanks to the new and unimproved Stat Curves.
So far I cannot honestly see Pally doign anything more than being a Stunmower, im quite suprised how much CC this class has, and am EXTREMELY interested in how "disorients" target would apply to a Player in PvP. Since its not exactly a Stun, it does seem able to stop a mobs cast, but obviously keep them from casting or attacking after that initial attack. so what happens to a player?
Ive been stacking as much Crit and HP as I can, im 24 con, and wisdom, what I am currently trying to test is how far I can take the Paladin as a CC class and attempting to maximize AoE DPS/ Temp HP Gains. how much longer can I extend the durations of the AoE Stuns etc.
The AoE attack with stun that provides the Temp HP is great ability, but the animation involved is brutally slow, some time involved before the ability can fire off, and then half of hte stun duration is lost as you are unable to attack for like 2 or 3 secs. this leaved a gap between that ability and then a fully charged PBAOE+Disorient ability, which I love this , great damage. This isnt a bad thing, no one like to be completely stun locked lol but im trying to see if I will be able to make a perma stun lock build ^^
Unfortunately, I cannot seem to find a happy 3rd ability to use??
I cant remember named of abilities, so bare with me please
So Far At Wills, the first 2 , Shield Dash and the basid At Will, great damage from beginning all the way through, there is another at will that provides a Damage SHield, but its a bit too slow and for now i have no use for extra damage mitigation .
PBAoE + Stun + Temp HP Gain = Amazing, Animations are too long however and wastes half of the stun duration.
PBAoE ChargeUp + Disorient = One really cool ability, BUT WHAT DOES DISORIENT DO TO PLAYERS????
3rd ability?! Well for the same of synergy and AOE damage, I have been using the On Target PBAoE which provides a damage Shield. This Damage SHield is pretty useless later in the game and only see to work vs trash mobs, I see no difference vs tough or bosses
The other option, is the "Taunts all mobs, absorbs all damage, and then releases 50% of that damage as an AOE burst". well... Very useful in a boss fight, but otherwise all other mobs are dead before that AOE Proc can go off lol
Smite.. Useless in my opinion.. the DOT Damage is extremely useless, and hte attack itself is less damage than using the standard At Will.
I also do not use Sacred Weapon, since im focusing on AOE, thats obviously going to help me very little.
[/COLOR]
So anyone wanna tell me what exactly Disorient Means when in PvP?
Cryptic, did you honestly mean to make an unkilliable version of the CW with all this CC?
Will you plan on implementing a "Target is Immune to Stun/Daze for X Duration" after being stunned? This is very common in games with PvP (Warhammer Online, DAOC) and keeps things fair and from being a stun lock competition, which is what I am goign to turn this Paladin into, a nearly impossible to kill Stun Bomber...
Many of Paladin's abilities feel the same. Examples:
1) Aura of Truth and Aura of Protection are the same - i get it, someone may want to stack crazy DR - pointless as everyone will be ignoring it easily in mod 6
2) Vow of emnity and Bane are so similar and both are basically a poor mans Knights Challenge
3) Binding oath, Shield of Faith and Divine Protector - 2 dailies and 1 encounter doing the same and are basically a poor mans Knights Valor
4) Absolution, Divine touch - both give a shield to a Pally who doesnt need it, one deals almost no damage, the other deals NO damage
Great utility guys, you overdid it.How about some damaging options ? Smite, Templars Wrath, Burning Light - this is it and its lacking.
@animalust - hey man, even if Burning Light disables players the same way it does NPCs it wont have a place in PVP - the cast is too long, any PVP player worth his salt will end you or CC you while you're casting. Also the cooldown is extreme. Id say BL needs CC immunity while casting. Also OPs are not like CWs at all, having CC and actually applying it in PVP are two very different things. Do you see GFs stun locking people ? Not since some mods ago. They still have the CC abilities but classes have changed alot, locking down a dodger is next to impossible these days. Not to mention tenacity and deflect vs stuns
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Feedback Divine Lunge
This skill is da bomb but it blows targets a bit to far but its another thing for GF to be jelly of us for another hard taunt on the lunge no less and the dmg is acceptable cant wait to see the justice tree
Feedback Aura Of Radiance
The 30% dmg Nerf Was a Bit much but it was one of the main skills we needed to deal at least some moderate dmg with
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Does Circle of Power increase the damage of all allies in the circle, or just yourself? The tooltip just says it's YOU that gets the damage boost but to have such a large area of effect to boost only yourself seems a bit much.
That being asked, the damage boost it provides for my lvl 70 Paladin is very welcome. Even with the Aura of Courage (less damage added per rank) and Radiant nerfs, I feel like I'm doing better in DPS.
Divine Lunge also means some different options for dealing damage, I've been experimenting between using this or CoP alongside Templar's Wrath and Burning Light. Lunge's knockback might be too excessive, but at least it holds to the 5 target cap.
Now Paladin's have THREE damage-dealing AoE CC encounters, and 4 AoE CC encounters if you throw Banishment in. The paladin's kinda becoming a CC machine, but I wonder how good any of it will be for PvP since the best one needs a long charge for full effectiveness.
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The only one I've seen so far is the Black Earth Mace that you get as soon as you enter the Drowned Shore. Or perhaps this isn't a bug at all, you sneaky devils.
Bug, I think: Tooltips
The damage for Shielding Strike and Divine Lunge aren't shown in the tooltip. You can see how much they do when you hover over them in the power bar/tray/whatever you want to call it.
Feedback: Smite
It now looks really super cool, like what you would expect when you smite someone with holy fire. It just felt good to use. Although I did notice the initial damage appears to be delayed. In fact, the damage from Aura of Courage that Smite triggers happens a full second before any damage from Smite itself.
Feedback: Divine Lunge
Looks like an all around good power so far. Not a fan of the knockback, but the prone and taunt are certainly useful.
Feedback: Aura of Radiance
The reduction in damage was immediately noticeable. This was one of the few options for dealing passable damage (alongside Courage), which takes a hit to our solo questing and threat generation. But above all that, I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned in the patch notes.
Feedback: Bulwark feats
These turn the living wall into a living steel bunker. I saw protection comparable to Shielding Strike, and thought that's what was doing all the work until I realized I forgot to slot it. Really looking forward to see what waits in the other 2 feat paths.
Feedback Bulwark Tree
The trees description is quite off it dose not offer you any more control than you already have it dose not taunt more then already can do. Its more on the line of self buffing but its cool down when allies take dmg your at-wills have a chance of recharging you powers faster.This tree dose make you a complete Bunker Buff Bot though
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BUG - Daily - Divine Protector Daily doesn`t consume AP and can be used without filled AP bar.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited February 2015
Feedback Protector+Bulwark lvl 65 -70:
This class is a joke and i tell you why.
Vs minions the Protector Bulwark tree is nice but when you meet a boss you die instant from 1 hits pfff.
The shif mech is a joke i pressed tab +shift and the crabb boss oneshoted me from full hp 60k + 30 K temp i have 30% dr +10 % from divinity + 60% from shift total 80 % capped +90k hp and i was one hit this must be a joke .
MY gf in the same gear laughed on this boss ,the crab cant even scratch him .
Feedback Dmg : no no no from what i say the pally is the new off tank he is only good vs minions but her dmg got a super nerf so he cant hold the agro soo well on minions but he can hold the agro well vs bosses but bosses 1 shoot him i dont get the logic.
Ofc you have hard taunts but hard taunts dont last long enugh to lock the enemys on you long enugh.
Aura of Radiance got too big nerf . form 1000-1500 dmg now down to 500-600
Aura of Courage got too big nerf . form 1000-1500 dmg now down to 500-600
Pally is worst and worst no dmg and her role shoud be tank but he cant survive bosses whats her role???
PS: The full pally looks like to me GWF sentinel w/o any dmg good aganst minions but when you meet Galakras you die from 1 hit.
He shoud have the same shild mech like GF w/o he is a puching bag hou dont last on bosses .
Gues i lost my intress on pally i think i will stay on GF its 10 millions better then pally.
Bulwark feats felt so sad and useless that it caused physical pain adding the points, a big pile of meh, waiting for Justice, hope it will be more fun
Holy Resurgence - stamina already regenerates fast and i rarely need to use shift anyway
Unflinching Resolve - 10% cc resist mehh
To my side - so the ppl running ahead of the slowpoke paladin will be able to run faster ?
Stand fast - kind of useful, but still meh
Sanctity - a few points of random stats, meh
Martyrs blood - insanely low chance for pvp, might have a bit of a use in pvp
Exemplar of the light, some shield, as if the 500k shield from templars wasnt enough
Vigilance - more mitigation that will get ignored by everybody and their mother in pvp, in pve paladin will probably have close to max DR without even needing shift
head unbowed - more divine call energy when it regens so fast you need to have a macro that auto spams it every 2 sec, why would you need more of smth that you can spam every 2 sec ?
avengers presence - mehh
holy barrier - cant be bothered using divine call, maybe will get a macro that spams it every 2 or 3 seconds, no point using it manually
I have to agree with Marnival on this. The Paladin as it stands has no place in group content in either PVE nor PVP and isn't going to be that great for solo content either. In this game DPS is king and the Paladin will be the ONLY CLASS without decent DPS. It's support capability is less than a DC and it's tanking capability is no better than a GF - all the while with less DPS than either.
I really can't understand what role the Devs see the Paladin fulfilling. Which is a real shame as there is a fun class in there trying to get out.
schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited February 2015
Feedback :
Even if i don't always agree with marnival or twilightwatchman now i must give both of them rigth .
Just think about this class he have no tool to survive 100-200 k hitting bosses her Shift mech don't function like Gfs ( he got the 60% DR as + of her existing dr and not above it like GF ) he is good at off tanking lowbye but her dps isnt enugh to manage the agro 100% time.
Now the current meta is in dps rank : CW king dps with SW second ruler is GWF/TR/DC/HR and on the last spot conq GF have 1/5 dps as those classes . But pally have 1/10 dps of GF this is a joke he have even lower dmg then a white companion .
W/o any support buffer controller role , this class is dead even before he is born.
Removed some posts that were either arguing over another player's feedback or not in the specified format. Please stick to the format laid out in the first posts of this thread.
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Feedback
Circle Of Power I am sorry but this should be a group Buff why well it looks like one and seriously your party would love you for using this on them 30% more dmg for 30 Seconds is an amazing party Buff. But in all honesty i do find certian things about this skil redundant like if you devotion you get 30% more healing we already have a AT-WILL CF Dailiys and a Toggle Encounter that dose this kind of bonus already sorry if i left other skills out but we have enough heal boosters already can we get some defense/deflection or crit/lifesteal boosters for the party In devotion path But i will save that until i see the light path over all it seems like a lazily thought out skill much like the bulwark tree witch i will touch on again below.
Feedback Bulwark Tree
I am going to give more in depth feed back This tree and its capstone is a whole plate of redundant 3 of the feats in this tree give an absorption shield we have a at will and encounters and dailies that do this better divine touch sucks but hell its there. You could boost the control resist feat in it to maby 30% also 5% DR and Deflection for standing still is laughable and in short the whole tree while good at absorbing dmg seems kinda of lazily done. To get feat tree that took a while to get here i was kinda expecting more then an absorption tree. And on martys blood my tiefling already gets something similar for being him and it procs more often. Avenger could be nice for skills like Circle Of power and Banish. Overall its a lazily done tree with a capital L and bad description like i said before
Feedback Divine Lunge
This is a good flipping skill the more i use it the more it never will be removed from my bar but its still a lazily done skill basically you took Lunging strike bull strike and Enforced Threat and stuck them together into 1 Encounter. I am glad to have a nice long ranged gap closer and CC so don't get me wrong.
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Two things that I think would greatly improve the pally.
The lunging strike encounter needs to be much earlier, maybe lvl20. Pallys need some ability to engage ranged targets and lvl65 is too late. Also needs a bit quicker refresh 10sec or so.
Sanctuary - could do some damage. The healer would do 100dps and the tank does 500dps with a hard taunt. The GF can have shield up and do some damage to maintain agro. This change would help the pally get some much needed agro lock while maintaining a shield on the party.
Two things that I think would greatly improve the pally.
The lunging strike encounter needs to be much earlier, maybe lvl20. Pallys need some ability to engage ranged targets and lvl65 is too late. Also needs a bit quicker refresh 10sec or so.
I totally agree lunge should be at least a lvl 20 skill for us switch it with bane or at least VoE
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Comments
I agree.
Devoted Cleric's first Daily "Guardian of Faith" (Angel drops from the sky to prone target and cause massive damage) is what I call a "Smite". This daily (Guardian of Faith) should me renamed Smite, given to Paladin to replace his first daily and rename the "Smite" Encounter power to something else. Like "Skull Cleaver" or sumfin'.
The tooltip lists this at will with a 5 foot cylinder range. But it still only hits one target. Not sure if that is a mistake in its listing or in the appliance of the attack. As for a single target attack, a 5 foot cylinder range is a bit redundant as when not directly aimed the character moves to attack the nearest target, regardless of where they are around him if they are in melee range of the attack. a 5 foot cylinder range implies it can hit all targets in front in a coned path like Dazing Strike rather than just giving the range like most other single target melee attacks.
Smite - Feedback
The animation is much better than before, it still needs better syncing to when the actual damage is dealt, the damage is still being dealt before the strike even finishes.
Weapons-feedback
I'd like alot more variety in weapons for paladin. As some feel hammers/maces fit paladins and many other, including myself feel swords fit them. And in actuality in dnd in most guides, they advise paladins to not use maces. Though I wont dismiss maces altogether, there really needs to be an alternative to thier more advisable weapon type.
Radiant Strike - feedback
The animation of this attack sometimes spazzes out when used consecutively. Making its application kind of misleading, sometimes it shows hitting more than it actually does. In addition this at will doesnt really show good visual feedback for what it represents. Its attack is ranged outward from the player when it makes contact to an enemy, for all visual purposes, the only thing visually shown from this attack is that he's bashing one enemy with his shield, and theres no real sense of radiance from the strike at all.
Burning Light - feedback
There is no listed damage for this encounter ( which may or maynot also be a problem for the devotion variant that also heals)
Sancturary - bug
This power seems still seems to sometimes not register, at times this skill will not work when shift is pressed, though it shows the character holding up thier shield, the blue aura doesnt appear and its clear you arent actually blocking as no stamina is being drained, but your character still holds up thier shield, giving the misleading interpretation you're blocking when you arent.
Sacred Weapon - feedback
There is no listed damage value for this encounters effect.
Divine's Call - feedback
The visual feedback from this is much appreciated.
Divine Action - bug
Rank 1 of this heroic feat isnt adding any value to AP at all. Using Divines Call multiple times does not add 1% to AP.
Sanctuary - bug#2
Sanctuary doesnt heal allies within the zone, only yourself still from what I've tested. In and Out of party.
Bane - Feedback
The mark representing the target should be changed to another effect. A standard mark makes it very difficult to tell which target you've marked when there are fighters in the party, essentially making your mark ineffective when you cant tell which is yours, and it being an encounter power makes it easy to waste it. I dont get the sense that the mark is a holy mark, since it uses the same standard mark from both fighter's abilities. I assume and hope this is just a placeholder however. Theres also no animation of this encounter being used through the character is stuck in place for a second when using this skill as if there should be one there.
Paladin overall damage - Feedback
I've begun hitting the area in leveling where damage is beginning to fall off very early. Given Paladin is a support class by default just like the Devotion Cleric, its kind of strange the cleric can by default deal much more damage than the paladin with alot more ease, in addition to having control. Kind of finding myself slugging through basic pve monsters only if I used a select group of encounters and at wills. For anything I find myself basically just spamming Burning Light and Radiant Strike simply because we dont really have that many options in damage. Our only really good damage option is completely reliant upon our first daily (even that starts to fall off in damage post level 15 ). The reason damage is a concern is that Paladin's are the most mobility crippled, but even if they manage to get close enough to thier targets, it doesnt matter very much because the afflicting damage at close range is just very low. To deal any decent damage requires paladins to specifically have aura of courage and stack HP stats. Where the same default role of a class has multiple methods of dealing decent enough damage, and control and heal from a distance, but the same support role of the class (paladin) can only manage at close range but thier is subpar when they finally get in range.
Smite - Feedback
The damage of this skill is very very poor as you get higher in level ( it was pretty poor even fore lower levels).
Shield - feedback
I feel Paladin's shouldnt commonly have the same kind of shields Guardian Fighters have. Guardian Fighters seem to often carry Tower Shields. Paladin's should have different shield options such as Kite and Round Shields to differentiate.
After the update, I've copied feedback from my original post while making edits to them to reflect the updates made to preview and emphasis still oncurring problems and feedback.
Feedback: With regards to Divine Call, any chance we could get a golden or yellow hue X over the heads of foes affected by this power? I know that puts it once more in kind of GF territory, but I'm still not really seeing anything that even suggests that foes are are affected by this power. Or, barring the yellow or golden X, could always make it a red O so GF's and OP's can amuse themselves with a friendly game of tic-tac-toe.
I expected the pally to be a front line, dynamic, mobile, high risk/reward melee type. I was excited to play this type of class, but thus far, that is not the case. The pally counterparts (the GF and DC) are much better at their respective roles, and offer more buff/debuff to their party.
This is the part that really surprises me, I really expected the pally to be a heavy buffer/debuffer. I thought the pally would be low dps and high survivability (and they are), but they would make up for it in large party buffs. This is not the case and the gf/dc both do better. The dc does a much better job in all respects and from the safety of range.
A couple of things that I think would fix the pally;
Their dps is way too low. They need to be up at least to a gf.
Burning light - each rank should lower charge time by .5secs.
Divine touch - damage is slightly higher than an at-will (way too low).
Auras - need to have their range increased to 60'. Pallys do most of their stuff at melee range meaning the ranged members of the party dont get the aura effect. Sanctuary is fine because you get a circle that you can move around and see when your party is in it.
Debuffs - like vow and bane have to benefit the entire party. A 40% damage buff to just the pally is useless.
Buffs - have to effect the entire party. Damage shields only effecting one player is crappy. This is the staple of the pally, protecting the party, having the buffs from encounters only effect the pally or one other person is terrible. It would be like the GF's Into the Fray only buffing the GF.
There could be a feat that turns the damage absorbing shields into damage reflecting shields. Giving the pally some passive damage.
The pally needs some way to engage ranged targets. My suggestion is an encounter called
Pursuit of Justice - the pally throws his shield and up to 5 opponents within a 80' range are damaged, dazed, snared and marked. The mark means any ally hitting the marked target gets a small heal and stamina buff.
This is all just my opinion. NW is still mostly a dps game. The pally has the worst dps and doesnt bring anything that another class can do better. I just dont see any compelling reason to play a pally other than its new and something different to try.
I tend to agree with you. 'Paladin' has a certain ring to it suggesting this great, heavenly powered warrior who can protect his allies, heal them to an extent and lay the smackdown on the wicked. Our Paladin does heal and can stay alive..and thats all I see from him. The Devs succeeded in making an immovable object, at least in PVE as Im sure in PVP plenty of people with high damage, ArmPen and high CC can and will destroy him.
As for party wide buffs - what possibly can they give the Pally? We already have Knight's Valor and ITF from GFs, nothing the protector Pally has can rival those 2 abilities.
Accumulation of Aggro - I saw some folks overreacting to the Pally's supposed aggro grabbing ability. Let me tell you, my lvl42 Paladin absolutely loses aggro to my basic Wizard companion if the fight lasts longer than a few seconds. I entered the Gray Wolf Den dungeon solo to test tanking and my Wizard died so many times because mobs would jump to him despite me pumping out my "insane" aoe and using my Tab flashlight as often as possible. A GF with KV on will be a better tank period. Once Paragon feats arrive we can see if there is a change to that or not.
Overall damage output of the Paladin - like many have stated the Pally's damage is ridiculously low. My best dps tool is my Aura of Courage and my best enounter takes too long to cast and too long to recharge.
Smite still needs syncing
Radiant Strike needs to stop using the shield slam animation twice - this seriously breaks the flow of combat
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Feedback : 500% threat is nothing if you can only hit 200- 1000 and maximum crit 3000 dmg Vs 100000 -250000 dmg cuz 200 *5 is will only make 1000 dmg as threat on her current stat prot pally will not do they job .
The same issue happened on eraly beta when GF cannot hold the agro vs DC and CW.
Somone need to realise tank and support classes dps from 1-10 are in 1-3 dps and controll classes dps are in top 9-10.
So i think pally need some dps boost and superb 10000% threat boost also her brothers GF & GWF need much more threat boost. W/o LS 5 man pt will need healer and tank how can hold the agro.
[Combat (Self)] Your Divine Judgement deals 6404 (7043) Radiant Damage to Ruffian. both me and Riffian were at lvl 45
Heroism - removed the temp HP I had from Templar's Wrath instead of granting me more, this has happened twice so far
Sanctuary - delay before activation, sometimes it animates but without the effect, doesnt heal allies
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
You really need to post these in the Actual Guardian Fighter feedback thread. This is Oathbound Paladin
Overall Paladin Feedback:
In addition to the previous posts. The Paladin is performing pretty subpar further in. It cant deal decent enough damage, and the lack of abilties in choice to do damage, cant hold threat well at all. (worse than GF's in beta and release in terms of threat holding) and its buffing abilities arent really all that great.
As I mentioned in my feedback. A DC who shares the same support roles as Paladin, does everything better than the paladin in damage (no matter the spec) and healing and buffing, with the addition of doing all of that at range. And the GF as a tank spec can take damage, deal decent damage, and buff party members better as well but being being more mobile.
Right now the Paladin feels lack luster as its only means of offense is melee range, but when he/she gets into melee range, they simply tickle. Thier only means of dealing damage relies on a single daily and a single area encounter thats a dot. Thats it. Even the older version of DC's had much more to work with and were in a better position than Paladin's right now.
I've now levelled a Palladin to 31 (just started Helm's Hold). Overall it's a fun class with some fun gameplay. I don't mind the lowish DPS overall as even with minimal twinking (just a few hand-me-down L4 enchants) I can still one-shot groups of minions with Templar's Wrath. However, I would say that Smite is woefully underpowered. The animation looks like a huge overhead bash but on anything other than a minion the damage is almost unnoticeable on the primary target and completely unnoticeable on surrounding mobs. This encounter needs a significant buff IMO. Similarly, At-Wills seem overly weak even against low level mobs.
Of course it may be that the Paragon feats will significantly change things up.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Smite's damage is still unnoticeable at lvl 45 with all rank 9 Radiants slotted
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Paladin now at 61, how i feel about the Paladin so far.
Can stacks Tonnes of HP, im at around 65k HP right now but certainly noticed the Drop in Damage Resistance thanks to the new and unimproved Stat Curves.
So far I cannot honestly see Pally doign anything more than being a Stunmower, im quite suprised how much CC this class has, and am EXTREMELY interested in how "disorients" target would apply to a Player in PvP. Since its not exactly a Stun, it does seem able to stop a mobs cast, but obviously keep them from casting or attacking after that initial attack. so what happens to a player?
Ive been stacking as much Crit and HP as I can, im 24 con, and wisdom, what I am currently trying to test is how far I can take the Paladin as a CC class and attempting to maximize AoE DPS/ Temp HP Gains. how much longer can I extend the durations of the AoE Stuns etc.
The AoE attack with stun that provides the Temp HP is great ability, but the animation involved is brutally slow, some time involved before the ability can fire off, and then half of hte stun duration is lost as you are unable to attack for like 2 or 3 secs. this leaved a gap between that ability and then a fully charged PBAOE+Disorient ability, which I love this , great damage. This isnt a bad thing, no one like to be completely stun locked lol but im trying to see if I will be able to make a perma stun lock build ^^
Unfortunately, I cannot seem to find a happy 3rd ability to use??
I cant remember named of abilities, so bare with me please
So Far At Wills, the first 2 , Shield Dash and the basid At Will, great damage from beginning all the way through, there is another at will that provides a Damage SHield, but its a bit too slow and for now i have no use for extra damage mitigation .
PBAoE + Stun + Temp HP Gain = Amazing, Animations are too long however and wastes half of the stun duration.
PBAoE ChargeUp + Disorient = One really cool ability, BUT WHAT DOES DISORIENT DO TO PLAYERS????
3rd ability?! Well for the same of synergy and AOE damage, I have been using the On Target PBAoE which provides a damage Shield. This Damage SHield is pretty useless later in the game and only see to work vs trash mobs, I see no difference vs tough or bosses
The other option, is the "Taunts all mobs, absorbs all damage, and then releases 50% of that damage as an AOE burst". well... Very useful in a boss fight, but otherwise all other mobs are dead before that AOE Proc can go off lol
Smite.. Useless in my opinion.. the DOT Damage is extremely useless, and hte attack itself is less damage than using the standard At Will.
I also do not use Sacred Weapon, since im focusing on AOE, thats obviously going to help me very little.
[/COLOR]
So anyone wanna tell me what exactly Disorient Means when in PvP?
Cryptic, did you honestly mean to make an unkilliable version of the CW with all this CC?
Will you plan on implementing a "Target is Immune to Stun/Daze for X Duration" after being stunned? This is very common in games with PvP (Warhammer Online, DAOC) and keeps things fair and from being a stun lock competition, which is what I am goign to turn this Paladin into, a nearly impossible to kill Stun Bomber...
Many of Paladin's abilities feel the same. Examples:
1) Aura of Truth and Aura of Protection are the same - i get it, someone may want to stack crazy DR - pointless as everyone will be ignoring it easily in mod 6
2) Vow of emnity and Bane are so similar and both are basically a poor mans Knights Challenge
3) Binding oath, Shield of Faith and Divine Protector - 2 dailies and 1 encounter doing the same and are basically a poor mans Knights Valor
4) Absolution, Divine touch - both give a shield to a Pally who doesnt need it, one deals almost no damage, the other deals NO damage
Great utility guys, you overdid it. How about some damaging options ? Smite, Templars Wrath, Burning Light - this is it and its lacking.
@animalust - hey man, even if Burning Light disables players the same way it does NPCs it wont have a place in PVP - the cast is too long, any PVP player worth his salt will end you or CC you while you're casting. Also the cooldown is extreme. Id say BL needs CC immunity while casting. Also OPs are not like CWs at all, having CC and actually applying it in PVP are two very different things. Do you see GFs stun locking people ? Not since some mods ago. They still have the CC abilities but classes have changed alot, locking down a dodger is next to impossible these days. Not to mention tenacity and deflect vs stuns
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Divine Lunge
This skill is da bomb but it blows targets a bit to far but its another thing for GF to be jelly of us for another hard taunt on the lunge no less and the dmg is acceptable cant wait to see the justice tree
Feedback
Aura Of Radiance
The 30% dmg Nerf Was a Bit much but it was one of the main skills we needed to deal at least some moderate dmg with
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
That being asked, the damage boost it provides for my lvl 70 Paladin is very welcome. Even with the Aura of Courage (less damage added per rank) and Radiant nerfs, I feel like I'm doing better in DPS.
Divine Lunge also means some different options for dealing damage, I've been experimenting between using this or CoP alongside Templar's Wrath and Burning Light. Lunge's knockback might be too excessive, but at least it holds to the 5 target cap.
Now Paladin's have THREE damage-dealing AoE CC encounters, and 4 AoE CC encounters if you throw Banishment in. The paladin's kinda becoming a CC machine, but I wonder how good any of it will be for PvP since the best one needs a long charge for full effectiveness.
CW: Rodrant Turnbul
TR: Rodran
DC: Rodrat
GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL
Other GWF: Shieldrant
HR: Bowdrant
SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!)
OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
The only one I've seen so far is the Black Earth Mace that you get as soon as you enter the Drowned Shore. Or perhaps this isn't a bug at all, you sneaky devils.
Bug, I think: Tooltips
The damage for Shielding Strike and Divine Lunge aren't shown in the tooltip. You can see how much they do when you hover over them in the power bar/tray/whatever you want to call it.
Feedback: Smite
It now looks really super cool, like what you would expect when you smite someone with holy fire. It just felt good to use. Although I did notice the initial damage appears to be delayed. In fact, the damage from Aura of Courage that Smite triggers happens a full second before any damage from Smite itself.
Feedback: Divine Lunge
Looks like an all around good power so far. Not a fan of the knockback, but the prone and taunt are certainly useful.
Feedback: Aura of Radiance
The reduction in damage was immediately noticeable. This was one of the few options for dealing passable damage (alongside Courage), which takes a hit to our solo questing and threat generation. But above all that, I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned in the patch notes.
Feedback: Bulwark feats
These turn the living wall into a living steel bunker. I saw protection comparable to Shielding Strike, and thought that's what was doing all the work until I realized I forgot to slot it. Really looking forward to see what waits in the other 2 feat paths.
Bulwark Tree
The trees description is quite off it dose not offer you any more control than you already have it dose not taunt more then already can do. Its more on the line of self buffing but its cool down when allies take dmg your at-wills have a chance of recharging you powers faster.This tree dose make you a complete Bunker Buff Bot though
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Daily doesn`t consume AP and can be used without filled AP bar.
This class is a joke and i tell you why.
Vs minions the Protector Bulwark tree is nice but when you meet a boss you die instant from 1 hits pfff.
The shif mech is a joke i pressed tab +shift and the crabb boss oneshoted me from full hp 60k + 30 K temp i have 30% dr +10 % from divinity + 60% from shift total 80 % capped +90k hp and i was one hit this must be a joke .
MY gf in the same gear laughed on this boss ,the crab cant even scratch him .
Feedback Dmg : no no no from what i say the pally is the new off tank he is only good vs minions but her dmg got a super nerf so he cant hold the agro soo well on minions but he can hold the agro well vs bosses but bosses 1 shoot him i dont get the logic.
Ofc you have hard taunts but hard taunts dont last long enugh to lock the enemys on you long enugh.
Aura of Radiance got too big nerf . form 1000-1500 dmg now down to 500-600
Aura of Courage got too big nerf . form 1000-1500 dmg now down to 500-600
Pally is worst and worst no dmg and her role shoud be tank but he cant survive bosses whats her role???
PS: The full pally looks like to me GWF sentinel w/o any dmg good aganst minions but when you meet Galakras you die from 1 hit.
He shoud have the same shild mech like GF w/o he is a puching bag hou dont last on bosses .
Gues i lost my intress on pally i think i will stay on GF its 10 millions better then pally.
Holy Resurgence - stamina already regenerates fast and i rarely need to use shift anyway
Unflinching Resolve - 10% cc resist mehh
To my side - so the ppl running ahead of the slowpoke paladin will be able to run faster ?
Stand fast - kind of useful, but still meh
Sanctity - a few points of random stats, meh
Martyrs blood - insanely low chance for pvp, might have a bit of a use in pvp
Exemplar of the light, some shield, as if the 500k shield from templars wasnt enough
Vigilance - more mitigation that will get ignored by everybody and their mother in pvp, in pve paladin will probably have close to max DR without even needing shift
head unbowed - more divine call energy when it regens so fast you need to have a macro that auto spams it every 2 sec, why would you need more of smth that you can spam every 2 sec ?
avengers presence - mehh
holy barrier - cant be bothered using divine call, maybe will get a macro that spams it every 2 or 3 seconds, no point using it manually
Gushind Wound with Aura of Courage.
http://puu.sh/fU03h/1c936131f5.png
+
http://youtu.be/qOop6yA61js
I have to agree with Marnival on this. The Paladin as it stands has no place in group content in either PVE nor PVP and isn't going to be that great for solo content either. In this game DPS is king and the Paladin will be the ONLY CLASS without decent DPS. It's support capability is less than a DC and it's tanking capability is no better than a GF - all the while with less DPS than either.
I really can't understand what role the Devs see the Paladin fulfilling. Which is a real shame as there is a fun class in there trying to get out.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Even if i don't always agree with marnival or twilightwatchman now i must give both of them rigth .
Just think about this class he have no tool to survive 100-200 k hitting bosses her Shift mech don't function like Gfs ( he got the 60% DR as + of her existing dr and not above it like GF ) he is good at off tanking lowbye but her dps isnt enugh to manage the agro 100% time.
Now the current meta is in dps rank : CW king dps with SW second ruler is GWF/TR/DC/HR and on the last spot conq GF have 1/5 dps as those classes . But pally have 1/10 dps of GF this is a joke he have even lower dmg then a white companion .
W/o any support buffer controller role , this class is dead even before he is born.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Circle Of Power
I am sorry but this should be a group Buff why well it looks like one and seriously your party would love you for using this on them 30% more dmg for 30 Seconds is an amazing party Buff. But in all honesty i do find certian things about this skil redundant like if you devotion you get 30% more healing we already have a AT-WILL CF Dailiys and a Toggle Encounter that dose this kind of bonus already sorry if i left other skills out but we have enough heal boosters already can we get some defense/deflection or crit/lifesteal boosters for the party In devotion path But i will save that until i see the light path over all it seems like a lazily thought out skill much like the bulwark tree witch i will touch on again below.
Feedback
Bulwark Tree
I am going to give more in depth feed back This tree and its capstone is a whole plate of redundant 3 of the feats in this tree give an absorption shield we have a at will and encounters and dailies that do this better divine touch sucks but hell its there. You could boost the control resist feat in it to maby 30% also 5% DR and Deflection for standing still is laughable and in short the whole tree while good at absorbing dmg seems kinda of lazily done. To get feat tree that took a while to get here i was kinda expecting more then an absorption tree. And on martys blood my tiefling already gets something similar for being him and it procs more often. Avenger could be nice for skills like Circle Of power and Banish. Overall its a lazily done tree with a capital L and bad description like i said before
Feedback
Divine Lunge
This is a good flipping skill the more i use it the more it never will be removed from my bar but its still a lazily done skill basically you took Lunging strike bull strike and Enforced Threat and stuck them together into 1 Encounter. I am glad to have a nice long ranged gap closer and CC so don't get me wrong.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The lunging strike encounter needs to be much earlier, maybe lvl20. Pallys need some ability to engage ranged targets and lvl65 is too late. Also needs a bit quicker refresh 10sec or so.
Sanctuary - could do some damage. The healer would do 100dps and the tank does 500dps with a hard taunt. The GF can have shield up and do some damage to maintain agro. This change would help the pally get some much needed agro lock while maintaining a shield on the party.
I totally agree lunge should be at least a lvl 20 skill for us switch it with bane or at least VoE
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]