And the best part about the auto-loot, auto-identify, auto-refine idea is that even if Cryptic throws more dailies at us, those mobs from those dailies also drop blue/green gear and so it also promotes RP progress.
I'm not so keen on the auto-loot & auto-identify part for the simple reason that both systems work perfectly fine outside of refining. I foresee this being an annoyance for a levelling character that may wish to be more selective about only picking up and IDing relevant class gear.
-edit-
Did I just stand up for the PvP community?? That's a first. But it's the truth nonetheless.
Nah. You stood up for common sense. People are blind and not seeing that the powercreep and PVE being unfarmable has caused even more imbalance amongst players and more imbalanced teams in PVP is just one of the many side-effects.
0
vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
It is perfect now, from a f2p economic model point of view.
I disagree. I and many others have stopped paying because of the rp system. They may get a few large spenders, but hey just lost out on a ton of small spenders because of it. Because of the rp system, I now spend the majority of my time in game making sure I can just use the ZAX and never again spend real money on zen. That is a failed economic model.
First off I personally DONT pass up many items. I play GG/PVP and Tiamat. I havnt run CN in a LONG time cause whats the point? Ancient weapon? Worthless.
Second the DEVS said new dungeons will be short dungeons more like VT in the future, not CN.
Finally,
Lets say everyone DOES run CN for RP and you get 50 green items and 20 blue items each run. Your "auto" system would give about 11,000 RP maybe 13,000 RP depending on item.
Well congratz because now you need to run 1,400 runs of CN to get orange gear. So you start doing that and ill talk to you in two years from now when you got your forth orange item but the items now go to 80 and the equipment is obsolete bevause well be in module 8 by then.
You realize that your not even halfway done on ONE item yet? Even if you got to level 50 on all your items you STILL are NOT EVEN HALF WAY DONE.
0
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited February 2015
I haven't spent a dime on the game in months.. because whats the point.
Spending 10 bucks to speed up to get a bonus = ok I guess.
Spending 10 bucks here = nothing, so again there is no point.
They put it so far out of reach, there really is NO reason to buy anything.
I would normally spend 2-300 a year on a MMO. I was on track until mod 4 to spend about that, now there is zero reason to do that.
So I cant figure how you say that. Most mmos figure out how to micro transaction you, but you give up a uptick for doing so, there is virtually no upticks in doing it, since epic to legendary is so far out of reach, that its ludicrous to even try, putting goals that far out, is bad business model imo.
The typical average mmo player isnt paying a dime into buying real cash into RP. Some might spend some money to spin off other items, reinvest into AD/ZEN to purchase a few, but again, its not really worth the time or effort to do so.
and yes.. when you stop progression in the method they are doing so, makes me not want to even try. I progress a toon through, then play another. I will pay when it makes sense to do so, but here atm there is no reason to do so.
They did the exact opposite of what you are trying to explain.
I fail to see how this is a good f2p model at all, again typically, most MMOs figure out how to part you from your money on either every toon or have account items to purchase.
There is so little account items at the moment, I review them , there is almost no reason to buy anything.
Buy a account bound horse.. done.
.. give us account wardrobes, more account bank slots (the amount they give you is simply not enough, other mmos, Ive bought 100 slots at a time! )
^ thats exactly why I thin just re-adjusting the RP required to match whatever exp is require for that level. This would put lvl 60 artifact item around 900k RP required.
This puts things like Blood Rubies in range price wise. It also means you CAN get the item by playing the game.
Now it would cost you about $120 to get one orange item. Also this gives room for them to increase with the new level cap to lvl 70.
Going JUST to lvl 70 (as opposed to lvl 80) would bump the required RP to about 2.5mil RP for a lvl 70 artifact item. Which is still about 60% of the current cost however much more realistic.
Then the final change to make would be epic item RP = the amount of RAW ad you could have gotten from salvage. Meaning most epics would be 4k-8k rp(doubled if like items so 8k-16k potential) so its much more feasible to use epics for RP instead of blues and greens.
Boom. Done. Problem solved.
Now you can actually run dungeons, pick up greens/blues AND epics which will count a considerable amount more towards RP and then if you WANT you can pay to speed it up.
Also, if it were ME I would "credit" everyone exactly how much RP they have used. So a current Orange item would stay Orange and get bumped to lvl 70. If someone is lvl 35 for instance, and they have used lets say 450k RP, they would get bumped to AROUND lvl 50 (or w.e their existing RP would amount to)
This solves the problem of old users who HAVE spent, not feeling ripped off, and new people who dont have Orange items, like the "finish line" didnt move THAT much further away (since leaving them at lvl 35 but bumping it to 70 is rather defeating).
This literally solves ALL the problems of the RP system.
1) Costs too much
2) RP not feasible to earn in game (solved by Epic Item RP = Raw AD amount)
3) Increase in level cap provides dilemmas - solved by this option.
4) New players who want these items feel it more plausible and affordable to get.
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
You do get RP, you just ignore most of it, along with most players, in part because players only are looking for the "easy" RP stones, also in part because the RP interface makes it cumbersome currently to refine blue/green gear.
I've always saved refining stones for double RP events, which means every character of mine that's obtained an artifact weapon has ranked it up to 35 during one such event. I then resume banking the stones, but I do continue to refine with gear, obtaining match bonuses wherever possible.
Green gear that doesn't match anything gets vendored un-IDed. It's barely worth the effort of cramming into the refining interface during a double RP event, or the scroll use.
So based on green and blue weapons and blues that are not amulets, belts, or off-hands (which get shunted into what I have for matching items, even if I have to mail them around), I've barely managed to make a couple of those weapons rank 36. The progress from refining with gear is in teeny weeny increments once you have an epic item, not even close one rank per week. Progress you can't see is pretty much the equivalent of non-progress.
Now, an epic artifact weapon was pretty darned good, which is why I was ok with the idea of taking each one that high and then largely working on something else. But I'm extremely apprehensive that the level cap raise and the re-gearing means that every bit of it was a waste.
Increasing the caps to keep artifact weapons among the best gear is completely irrelevant to someone who never got remotely close to the first cap. But it is relevant if your item used to be really great at a low rank but isn't good at all anymore unless it's maxxed out. And there is concern based on the new stat scaling that gear that was better than good enough to do everything, even if it wasn't the best, will now not be good enough at all. I don't know yet. Remains to be seen.
I was a huge fan of the concept of gear that got more powerful along with my characters. I'm not a fan of how it's been implemented here.
Dont forget beckylunatic, that even once you get each item to lvl 35, your only about 1/10th of the way to 60! So repeat that process 10 times and youll have Orange gear WOOHOO!
If they do double RP events every other month, itll only take you about another 1.5 years to get full lvl 60 orange items. Oh wait... We will be in mod 10 by that point so you wont even want them
Dont forget beckylunatic, that even once you get each item to lvl 35, your only about 1/10th of the way to 60! So repeat that process 10 times and youll have Orange gear WOOHOO!
If they do double RP events every other month, itll only take you about another 1.5 years to get full lvl 60 orange items. Oh wait... We will be in mod 10 by that point so you wont even want them
I'd slit my wrists, but they're too sore from dragging and dropping....
And not ONE DEV post. Wonder what it takes to get an official response, as someone mentioned, even if its a "Deal with it".
I think the situation can be summed up with a quote
Just then they came in sight of thirty or forty windmills that rise from that plain. And no sooner did Don Quixote see them that he said to his squire, "Fortune is guiding our affairs better than we ourselves could have wished. Do you see over yonder, friend Sancho, thirty or forty hulking giants? I intend to do battle with them and slay them. With their spoils we shall begin to be rich for this is a righteous war and the removal of so foul a brood from off the face of the earth is a service God will bless."
"What giants?" asked Sancho Panza.
"Those you see over there," replied his master, "with their long arms. Some of them have arms well nigh two leagues in length."
"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills. Those things that seem to be their arms are sails which, when they are whirled around by the wind, turn the millstone
Dont forget beckylunatic, that even once you get each item to lvl 35, your only about 1/10th of the way to 60! So repeat that process 10 times and youll have Orange gear WOOHOO!
If they do double RP events every other month, itll only take you about another 1.5 years to get full lvl 60 orange items. Oh wait... We will be in mod 10 by that point so you wont even want them
+1 for this whole comment!!
Excellent summation of the RP/Artifact scenario as it exists today.
I aim to misbehave
0
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited February 2015
Only OP thread has more views.
Recently a poll came on general discussion and it was one of the most active polls of recent note. This is a decivise issue amongst players, but over 85% (combined) said AT the least this process has to change. That is clearly a relevent #, even as a minority, we are reflective of the online player base.
AS a reflection, we are clearly making a statement that this isn't acceptable to the general population of the player base.
Their response so far is making me very concerned that the biggest issue in their game cant EVEN get any response at all.
I'd slit my wrists, but they're too sore from dragging and dropping....
LOL! Exactly.
Like I said before and will say again. As much as I really do like the EXP->RP system, one VERY viable option would be to mimic the level EXP requirements over to the level RP requirements.
So to get a fully upgraded Orange item it would take roughly 900k RP (down from 4.5-4.6M Rp). This actually brings costs/RP/earnings etc VERY much inline with pricing.
The CURRENT RP curves will create a MASSIVE dilemma when trying to increase artifact item level (to 80 is what they said). By my rough estimates this would bump RP required BEYOND Pluto into no-mans land (doesnt exist / pretty sure my game will just un-install itself at that point).
1) I see no reason to put arti-equip at lvl 80. Make it MATCH character level at lvl 70.
2) MIMIC the EXP requirements for arti-equip. By my estimates this would mean RP required for lvl 60 is 900k and RP required for lvl 70 (the new max) would be about 2.5-3M? MUCH more reasonable and still about 50-60% of the CURRENT MAX
3) Let players keep their RP invested. Players who have an orange lvl 60 item auto get a bump to Orange lvl 70. Players who have a Purple lvl 35 and have invested 460k RP, would get a "bump" to the new equiv RP range (my guess would be about lvl 50 item). EVERYONE WINS.
4) Increase the RAW AD awarded for level 70 (item level 100+) items so you can earn much more Raw AD - helping ALL players get the daily cap easier.
5) Give RP EQUIVALENT to the "RAW AD" value. Level 60 Epics offer between 4-6kish Raw AD? Higher end epics offer 8k+ I would imagine new "tier" with Itemlevel (120+) would offer closer to 12k Raw AD? So a GOOD Epic should give you atleast 12k RP, I would even suggest DOUBLING these numbers, so if you get a GOOD epic item you can easily hit your RAW AD cap for the day (removing some of the advantage BOTS have)
Now you have created a system that is much more reasonable to attain by playing the game or even PAYING for those items.
You are MUCH more rewarded for getting a good epic item and using that for RP, and Epics now become a major source of RP.
0
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited February 2015
Still no response. I will not allow this to be buried, shame on them.
Comments
I'm not so keen on the auto-loot & auto-identify part for the simple reason that both systems work perfectly fine outside of refining. I foresee this being an annoyance for a levelling character that may wish to be more selective about only picking up and IDing relevant class gear.
It is perfect now, from a f2p economic model point of view.
Nah. You stood up for common sense. People are blind and not seeing that the powercreep and PVE being unfarmable has caused even more imbalance amongst players and more imbalanced teams in PVP is just one of the many side-effects.
let me say control question )))
how many people you know buy or plan to buy blood rubbies?
I disagree. I and many others have stopped paying because of the rp system. They may get a few large spenders, but hey just lost out on a ton of small spenders because of it. Because of the rp system, I now spend the majority of my time in game making sure I can just use the ZAX and never again spend real money on zen. That is a failed economic model.
First off I personally DONT pass up many items. I play GG/PVP and Tiamat. I havnt run CN in a LONG time cause whats the point? Ancient weapon? Worthless.
Second the DEVS said new dungeons will be short dungeons more like VT in the future, not CN.
Finally,
Lets say everyone DOES run CN for RP and you get 50 green items and 20 blue items each run. Your "auto" system would give about 11,000 RP maybe 13,000 RP depending on item.
Well congratz because now you need to run 1,400 runs of CN to get orange gear. So you start doing that and ill talk to you in two years from now when you got your forth orange item but the items now go to 80 and the equipment is obsolete bevause well be in module 8 by then.
You realize that your not even halfway done on ONE item yet? Even if you got to level 50 on all your items you STILL are NOT EVEN HALF WAY DONE.
Spending 10 bucks to speed up to get a bonus = ok I guess.
Spending 10 bucks here = nothing, so again there is no point.
They put it so far out of reach, there really is NO reason to buy anything.
I would normally spend 2-300 a year on a MMO. I was on track until mod 4 to spend about that, now there is zero reason to do that.
So I cant figure how you say that. Most mmos figure out how to micro transaction you, but you give up a uptick for doing so, there is virtually no upticks in doing it, since epic to legendary is so far out of reach, that its ludicrous to even try, putting goals that far out, is bad business model imo.
The typical average mmo player isnt paying a dime into buying real cash into RP. Some might spend some money to spin off other items, reinvest into AD/ZEN to purchase a few, but again, its not really worth the time or effort to do so.
and yes.. when you stop progression in the method they are doing so, makes me not want to even try. I progress a toon through, then play another. I will pay when it makes sense to do so, but here atm there is no reason to do so.
They did the exact opposite of what you are trying to explain.
I fail to see how this is a good f2p model at all, again typically, most MMOs figure out how to part you from your money on either every toon or have account items to purchase.
There is so little account items at the moment, I review them , there is almost no reason to buy anything.
Buy a account bound horse.. done.
.. give us account wardrobes, more account bank slots (the amount they give you is simply not enough, other mmos, Ive bought 100 slots at a time! )
This puts things like Blood Rubies in range price wise. It also means you CAN get the item by playing the game.
Now it would cost you about $120 to get one orange item. Also this gives room for them to increase with the new level cap to lvl 70.
Going JUST to lvl 70 (as opposed to lvl 80) would bump the required RP to about 2.5mil RP for a lvl 70 artifact item. Which is still about 60% of the current cost however much more realistic.
Then the final change to make would be epic item RP = the amount of RAW ad you could have gotten from salvage. Meaning most epics would be 4k-8k rp(doubled if like items so 8k-16k potential) so its much more feasible to use epics for RP instead of blues and greens.
Boom. Done. Problem solved.
Now you can actually run dungeons, pick up greens/blues AND epics which will count a considerable amount more towards RP and then if you WANT you can pay to speed it up.
Also, if it were ME I would "credit" everyone exactly how much RP they have used. So a current Orange item would stay Orange and get bumped to lvl 70. If someone is lvl 35 for instance, and they have used lets say 450k RP, they would get bumped to AROUND lvl 50 (or w.e their existing RP would amount to)
This solves the problem of old users who HAVE spent, not feeling ripped off, and new people who dont have Orange items, like the "finish line" didnt move THAT much further away (since leaving them at lvl 35 but bumping it to 70 is rather defeating).
This literally solves ALL the problems of the RP system.
1) Costs too much
2) RP not feasible to earn in game (solved by Epic Item RP = Raw AD amount)
3) Increase in level cap provides dilemmas - solved by this option.
4) New players who want these items feel it more plausible and affordable to get.
I've always saved refining stones for double RP events, which means every character of mine that's obtained an artifact weapon has ranked it up to 35 during one such event. I then resume banking the stones, but I do continue to refine with gear, obtaining match bonuses wherever possible.
Green gear that doesn't match anything gets vendored un-IDed. It's barely worth the effort of cramming into the refining interface during a double RP event, or the scroll use.
So based on green and blue weapons and blues that are not amulets, belts, or off-hands (which get shunted into what I have for matching items, even if I have to mail them around), I've barely managed to make a couple of those weapons rank 36. The progress from refining with gear is in teeny weeny increments once you have an epic item, not even close one rank per week. Progress you can't see is pretty much the equivalent of non-progress.
Now, an epic artifact weapon was pretty darned good, which is why I was ok with the idea of taking each one that high and then largely working on something else. But I'm extremely apprehensive that the level cap raise and the re-gearing means that every bit of it was a waste.
Increasing the caps to keep artifact weapons among the best gear is completely irrelevant to someone who never got remotely close to the first cap. But it is relevant if your item used to be really great at a low rank but isn't good at all anymore unless it's maxxed out. And there is concern based on the new stat scaling that gear that was better than good enough to do everything, even if it wasn't the best, will now not be good enough at all. I don't know yet. Remains to be seen.
I was a huge fan of the concept of gear that got more powerful along with my characters. I'm not a fan of how it's been implemented here.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
If they do double RP events every other month, itll only take you about another 1.5 years to get full lvl 60 orange items. Oh wait... We will be in mod 10 by that point so you wont even want them
Replies: 252
Views: 9,214
And not ONE DEV post. Wonder what it takes to get an official response, as someone mentioned, even if its a "Deal with it".
I'd slit my wrists, but they're too sore from dragging and dropping....
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I think the situation can be summed up with a quote
+1 for this whole comment!!
Excellent summation of the RP/Artifact scenario as it exists today.
Recently a poll came on general discussion and it was one of the most active polls of recent note. This is a decivise issue amongst players, but over 85% (combined) said AT the least this process has to change. That is clearly a relevent #, even as a minority, we are reflective of the online player base.
AS a reflection, we are clearly making a statement that this isn't acceptable to the general population of the player base.
Their response so far is making me very concerned that the biggest issue in their game cant EVEN get any response at all.
LOL! Exactly.
Like I said before and will say again. As much as I really do like the EXP->RP system, one VERY viable option would be to mimic the level EXP requirements over to the level RP requirements.
So to get a fully upgraded Orange item it would take roughly 900k RP (down from 4.5-4.6M Rp). This actually brings costs/RP/earnings etc VERY much inline with pricing.
The CURRENT RP curves will create a MASSIVE dilemma when trying to increase artifact item level (to 80 is what they said). By my rough estimates this would bump RP required BEYOND Pluto into no-mans land (doesnt exist / pretty sure my game will just un-install itself at that point).
1) I see no reason to put arti-equip at lvl 80. Make it MATCH character level at lvl 70.
2) MIMIC the EXP requirements for arti-equip. By my estimates this would mean RP required for lvl 60 is 900k and RP required for lvl 70 (the new max) would be about 2.5-3M? MUCH more reasonable and still about 50-60% of the CURRENT MAX
3) Let players keep their RP invested. Players who have an orange lvl 60 item auto get a bump to Orange lvl 70. Players who have a Purple lvl 35 and have invested 460k RP, would get a "bump" to the new equiv RP range (my guess would be about lvl 50 item). EVERYONE WINS.
4) Increase the RAW AD awarded for level 70 (item level 100+) items so you can earn much more Raw AD - helping ALL players get the daily cap easier.
5) Give RP EQUIVALENT to the "RAW AD" value. Level 60 Epics offer between 4-6kish Raw AD? Higher end epics offer 8k+ I would imagine new "tier" with Itemlevel (120+) would offer closer to 12k Raw AD? So a GOOD Epic should give you atleast 12k RP, I would even suggest DOUBLING these numbers, so if you get a GOOD epic item you can easily hit your RAW AD cap for the day (removing some of the advantage BOTS have)
Now you have created a system that is much more reasonable to attain by playing the game or even PAYING for those items.
You are MUCH more rewarded for getting a good epic item and using that for RP, and Epics now become a major source of RP.
That rp cost......................... ow.
its kinda useless tho
0% seriously....
wait what? That's a perfect vorpal in everything but name.
If they reviewed the requirement for a matching epic enchant for upgrading ranks 8 through 10, I'd be a happier camper.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Oh... uh... and buffed the damage it does. Huh. Not the debuff though.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Bilethorn damage buffed.
Lightning damage says it scales to level.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
make a new thread!
upgrading to rank 12 has 1% btw.