silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited February 2015
For goodness sake, you would think that at this point of the game, people would understand the difference of what we were discussing.
Two different types of RP process.
a. RP for enchants, has no complaints, it was fine as is per se.
and
b. RP for artifact gear, THIS is where our complaints are stemming from.
Also, either some of of you are ignoring all the arguments are just not paying attention, most of our complaints are derived from not being able to play, resource more then one toon anymore and/or being stuck into having to solo grind items to farm.
Apparently there are a few people who just want to grind, well most of us do not want to do that. Getting items to purple should be relative easy (as it is now for artifacts) but since you are locked out of retaining rp resources other then basically dragon hoards, you are stuck stacking dragon hoards just to farm <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
DRAGON HOARDS should be a BONUS, not the primary way to earn RP.
Also the 92k figure thrown out is ridiculous, you might get 12 white pearls a hour vs 12 opals, its all RNG. EVEn then you are just doing nothing but solo grind. and congrats, you are winning at farming. I wouldnt exactly boast about this, it makes me VERY sad as a long time MMO Veteran, that this statement is even thrown out. Grinding was what you did to level alts, get permanent modifiers (which were easier to attain then legendary level of artifact gear is). Heck in most other games you STILL invited your friends for a 300 giant slaying romp fest to get your boons.
BTW this whole (well I played some korean grind fest) just stop it, you chose to play that, I wouldnt, nor would I ever play a game that is specifically set up to do solo work like that. This is why this mod is so important, it will show what they are going to balance out, if they make it the same, then phooey on them.
The AMOUNT of RP you need to get multiple toons to purple even is ludicrous based on the amount of RP available for Artifact gear, let alone legendary.
Please, stop telling us about enchant RP, its not the problem atm.
a. RP for enchants, has no complaints, it was fine as is per se.
and
b. RP for artifact gear, THIS is where our complaints are stemming from.
DRAGON HOARDS should be a BONUS, not the primary way to earn RP.
For the first point, the only reason noone is complaining about RP for enchants is because BOTS farm low level enchants and shards and post them on the AH (more low level enchants). Also you can actually get shards to drop from dungeons, going from a greater to perfect is like 300k RP and shards are like 5000 each?
RP for gear ONLY became an issue with BOTS could no longer sell them on the AH.
BOTH of these "bot" issues stem from the fact that RATHER than REWARD the PLAYER for PLAYING the game, they make the "BEST" way to farm for RP doing grinding on mobs.
Rank 3/4s and Peridots should NOT be the best way to farm RP. It should be through ITEMS and DUNGEONS
I agree 100% Dragon Hoard should be a BONUS not the MAIN way.
Noone complained about RP prior to the bound on account/pickup change. RP was cheap.
NOW they have done that, and have not given us ways to farm it ourselves, its hopeless.
This is the only game I have not minded bots because it had such a positive effect for the entire community due to such a broken system...
Yeah unfortunately this is true.
I mean you can even just look at RP from items and tell there is a major problem
green: 100RP
blue: 300 RP
Epic: 1200 RP?!
Why would I farm epics for 1200 RP when someone can set up a bot to farm Peridots and have multiple STACKS overnight?
Why would I even TRY to farm RP myself when the return on my time is SO low.
If you want to have players farm them, and NOT bots, you need to give more incentive to actually PLAY the game.
This can be done by increasing RP across the board for better items and reducing RP for lesser items. An Epic Item should be VERY valuable in using for RP
I would suggest something like
1 green = 10blues.
20 Blues = 1 T1 Epic
2 T1 Epics = 1 T2 epic ETC
This would mean that
Green = 100rp
blue = 1,000 RP
T1 Epic = 20,000RP
T2 Epic = 40,000 RP
etc....
EITHER that or look at REDUCING the RP required down to reasonable levels.
4: First, 2500RP stones don't cut it when you need millions and millions of em. Second, it's just a shift from RNG mob farming to RNG HE farming, which is potentially even worse. I can kill a lot more mobs farming them, than I can farm RNG drops from HEs.
It's a start at least. At least this way you could put together a party and farm HE's as a group and earn something. It's not all the way there yet, but it's a good step imo.
For goodness sake, you would think that at this point of the game, people would understand the difference of what we were discussing.
Two different types of RP process.
a. RP for enchants, has no complaints, it was fine as is per se.
and
b. RP for artifact gear, THIS is where our complaints are stemming from.
Also, either some of of you are ignoring all the arguments are just not paying attention, most of our complaints are derived from not being able to play, resource more then one toon anymore and/or being stuck into having to solo grind items to farm.
Apparently there are a few people who just want to grind, well most of us do not want to do that. Getting items to purple should be relative easy (as it is now for artifacts) but since you are locked out of retaining rp resources other then basically dragon hoards, you are stuck stacking dragon hoards just to farm <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
DRAGON HOARDS should be a BONUS, not the primary way to earn RP.
Also the 92k figure thrown out is ridiculous, you might get 12 white pearls a hour vs 12 opals, its all RNG. EVEn then you are just doing nothing but solo grind. and congrats, you are winning at farming. I wouldnt exactly boast about this, it makes me VERY sad as a long time MMO Veteran, that this statement is even thrown out. Grinding was what you did to level alts, get permanent modifiers (which were easier to attain then legendary level of artifact gear is). Heck in most other games you STILL invited your friends for a 300 giant slaying romp fest to get your boons.
BTW this whole (well I played some korean grind fest) just stop it, you chose to play that, I wouldnt, nor would I ever play a game that is specifically set up to do solo work like that. This is why this mod is so important, it will show what they are going to balance out, if they make it the same, then phooey on them.
The AMOUNT of RP you need to get multiple toons to purple even is ludicrous based on the amount of RP available for Artifact gear, let alone legendary.
Please, stop telling us about enchant RP, its not the problem atm.
Bear in mind that this thread was written by someone who has plenty of time to farm. I've put in 8, 10, even 12 hours solid farming on some days. It's not fun. One piece of artifact gear is a task enough to get to epic (and I choose epic as the focus of the discussion because, in most cases, you're replacing an EPIC tier piece of gear with said artifact, so it's not unreasonable to expect at least that level of advancement). Multiply that by four. I'm not focusing so much on artifacts (e.g. Lanterns of Revelation) because enchantments are by far much easier to get (I've racked up a hefty number just running around WoD killing stuff and dragon-go-rounds) and even a tier 4 is a better yield of RP than a green piece of gear. The grind to get artifacts up is more of a question of acquiring the necessary AD to get Greater Marks of Potency than a dearth of means to gain RP.
Artifact gear--belts, necks, weapons, offhands--now that's entirely a horse of a different color. You can't refine gear with enchantments, and the amount gained for equipment drops is paltry in comparison even with matching type (200 for a matching piece of green gear vs. 270 for a t4 enchantment and you don't have to worry about type, and that's before crits....really?). Bear in mind that this module will include a new CLASS--that means refining four pieces of gear all over again. Just that alone will turn a lot of people off to trying out the OP, but that's a different discussion there. Also, there are far more sources of enchantments and shards than there are for RP items that can be used for gear.
Union/stability/power stones? Great for artifacts. Lest we forget, though, gear does not have an attribute (union, stability, power). Therefore, such stones are nowhere near as useful for gear items. You get 1/5 the advertised value for using an attribute stone on an item not of that attribute--giving attribute stones to refine gear is no better than simply giving peridots or pearls.
Increasing the sources of RP for artifact items is all fine and good. It's a step in the general right direction. But it nowhere near addresses the bigger problem. It does not touch the task of refining artifact gear to an acceptable level.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited February 2015
Also, no source of materials addresses the issue of the tendon-destroying refining interface.
I honestly have to assume the devs have in their magic toolbox the option to instantly make any piece of artifact gear any level they want it to be, and have never actually sat down and tested the physical act of dragging and dropping a bazillion peridots into an item 5 at a time, or identifying whichever trash drops meet your threshold for "worth it" and dragging them over one at a time. Or they tested it with blood rubies, which negates the consideration of the low average amount of RP gained per action (yeah, even the opals).
Even if they tested out the system prior to approving it for release, they can't have done so for more than a few minutes before deciding it seemed fine, and there is no way they actually made legendary gear in a fashion that mimicked ordinary play. For one thing, it would have been utterly impossible on their development schedule; no staff member would have had that kind of time. Whatever model they were using to determine the system was fit for release was already using unrealistic standards.
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited February 2015
And then they give us events in which it's to our benefit (from a power standpoint, not for our health) to refine as many things in a short time frame as we can get our hands on, and to save as much as we can store for such events.
It's not really any better to look at it from the perspective of us being meant to refine our junk only at the end of a play session, or when our bags can't hold any more, whichever comes first. Because we all understand that this is a way to get nowhere very slowly. (Still 4k short of rank 36 on the main hand of the character I've got running Gnarlroot this week with saved keys, based on cramming weapons into it and saving the stones.)
Look at how many people say they vendor their rank 1s and 2s because they're not worth the trouble.
I don't disagree with your point. But in their defense, it was never their intention for us to refine 20 stacks of peridots at a time.
Whilst I agree with your point the interface is still no better if you use it to refine a small number of things as they drop in the world, which seems to be more in keeping with the intent of the design.
Go create a new account. Lvl 60. Without using existing AD/RP you have on any other account. See how long it takes you to farm the arti gear to even purple. It takes longer than it should. (from players perspective)
The math you keep talking about.
Purple > fomorion/dread legion/ancient
If you are arguing you need anything more than ancient. Thats for a diff topic.
Go create a new account. Lvl 60. Without using existing AD/RP you have on any other account. See how long it takes you to farm the arti gear to even purple. It takes longer than it should. (from players perspective)
The math you keep talking about.
Purple > fomorion/dread legion/ancient
If you are arguing you need anything more than ancient. Thats for a diff topic.
I'll even add one more caveat: Do so within the standard 2-4 hour total play time window that the average player has. That means blocking off a substantial amount of time for farming RP.
I've done this. I've put in six plus HOURS of farming on a daily basis. I've put in more hours farming than most players have for the entirety of their available playtime. That's between the occasional DD and Tiamat run. I've run so many circles in WoD I can probably navigate on memory alone.
What do I have to show for it? Three DAYS to get a belt from 30 to not even 35. I can scarcely imagine what it must feel like to the average joe who has about 3 hours to play total in a day and has to block off a significant time of that for farming RP or spend massive amounts of AD--especially when they have more than one piece of gear to refine.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Lol not sure if i got spanked there or not
Just saying you dont need all of that, just boost the stats you need. Choose wisely and understand that 'All that glitter is not gold'
Between all 7 of mine i get the bang for RP i need. dont have to grind for rp becuse its over kill. .01 vrs .02 .. so what
if i maxed them all id have 75% of it that dosnt mean squat.
sry boss
You're missing the point of this thread. I'm not worried about getting legendary. However, you're trading an epic piece of gear for that artifact weapon. It's not unreasonable to expect that getting the artifact item to epic tier shouldn't take months.
Those that keep saying "you don't need orange gear" invariably miss the point. It's not about legendary. It's about reasonable gear progression.
FYI: To show what all that farming has gotten so far (and that I'm not some lowbie asking for an easy ride for other players), a snapshot of my current character sheet:
The neck piece is rank 21 and the belt is 33. All other artifact gear is 35 or better. At any rate, yes, with that gear score, I don't need legendary. But it's been one doozy of a time getting it all just to epic.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
I still don't get why anyone would defend the system. I've been trying to hammer in the flaws of the rp system for a while now. Some may see me as a hater, but really all I do for the most part is just point out glaring faults. Grinding doesn't necessarily have to be so bad, but it has to feel rewarding it in some way. The way this is done is that people don't want to grind (to the extent implemented as it is), and people don't want to refine. There's just not really much good to say about any of it. I mean when the first instinct is to buy the rp out, that's clearly not healthy design. The same goes with campaign completion packs you can buy, people should buy them for convenience, but I'm sure a big factor in anyone who actually bought them was that they just did not want to do the content (sharandar particularly).
The problem is indeed in gear progression pace. When you upgraded all your stuff to blue quality, it starts to take too much time to see any advancement. Days of grinding to get a bit of stats or trying to have fun doing PvP/PvE events and don't progress at all. For a session-based PvP MMO (log in to play the same maps with the same rules all over again) Neverwinter is too unbalanced, session-based PvE content is either too easy or frustrating (Tiamat).
Neverwinter must have character strength progression included in fun aspects of the game.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
I still don't get why anyone would defend the system. I've been trying to hammer in the flaws of the rp system for a while now. Some may see me as a hater, but really all I do for the most part is just point out glaring faults. Grinding doesn't necessarily have to be so bad, but it has to feel rewarding it in some way. The way this is done is that people don't want to grind (to the extent implemented as it is), and people don't want to refine.
That's the bottom line for me.
I don't mind the "grind" or something taking a long time. Hell, I'm coming up on my 2-year anniversary this April. I don't mind investing time.
The problem is the system just isn't FUN. Grinding individual stones isn't fun. And then refining them 5 at a time is awful.
My Artifact Weapon is Legendary. I got that by buying or identifying blues and refining them. Prior to the weapons going Live, I had purchased a large stash of them off the AH, so for the most part I didn't even have to grind for them.
On the first double refinement weekend, it took me about 11 hours over the course of 3 days to go from Epic to Legendary (35-60). That's purely pulling things out of my mail, sending stuff from toon to toon, and dropping in all in one weapon.
11 hours. On a doubled weekend. Purely the process. When my weapon finally hit level 60, I wasn't excited. I wanted to vomit. I had to turn the game off and lay down. That's NOT fun.
One, it rewards players for playing the game. It's a system that says, "Hey! You want the BEST stuff? Cool. Play the game." The more time you spend playing Neverwinter, the closer you get to Legendary items. So by default, Legendary items are rewarded to players who spend time in the game. And we know that playing players are paying players.
Second, the interface I laid out (which is identical to the already implemented Black Ice system) is easy. The hard part is earning the EXP. The easy part is spending it.
I just don't get why the Devs haven't even bothered to respond. We've put out ideas that could also be monetized more effectively AND help increase retention. But all we get is silence.
This is a major issue, and generally it's the top complaint you see from people (outside of PvP), and a big reason why people don't stick around much longer after hitting 60. Once they realize how far out of reach this stuff is, even if they play a lot, it kills the incentive to keep adventuring in Neverwinter.
That being said when got my first artifact to purple - not organge mind you - but purple I decided that participating in the RP system part of the game was pretty much not something that was for me. Like a lot of AD cost of upgrades in this game (pet/mount) the cost are just way to high. From green to blue refining seemed fine but after that it just got rediculous. So, basically I upgrade my stuff to blues and call it done. This limits my gearscore and ulimatly puts a cap on the level of power any one on my toons can reach which is not fun.
At a minimum they need make it where you can put a stack of those stones in one of the 5 slots. Thats a basic quaility of life if they want to keep the system intact. At least reduce the housekeaping for the system.
That being said - I would really like to see mutiple ways of leveing gear. The use of Overflow xp is my favorite concept for system overhall.
Additionally I would like to be able to DE green weapon/armor drops into residium (or something else - in lore DE a magic weapon gives residium) and be able to use that in refinement as well. As it stands greem drops are worthless - I dont pick them up unless I miss click and I surely don't waste an ID scroll on them. Yes, greens at 70 might be valuable for a few weeks - tops. If the DE is to much interface clicking (and it very well might be) then alow the use of Green drops directly in the rifinement interface. There has to be a ritual or whatever to allow a magic item to absorb the power of another item.
Still - overflow XP seems to be the cleanest easiest way. And it fun to kill stuff to make a character - or an item - more powerfull.
Lorgrius
A Day in the Life of a Ranger NW-DKCE6OZVH The Mines of GubassoDaily! NW-DN7Z5LHAR The Vault of HargonDaily! NW-DP4X6HAEP
We can talk about it all we like but whatever is currently on preview is pretty much what we are getting for mod 6.
The best we can hope for is that RP drops are bigger and/or more frequent. I can't see any bigger changes popping up any day soon.
And I suspect the reason the devs have not commented on any of the various suggestions is that they know that it ain't gonna change.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
I don't mind the "grind" or something taking a long time. Hell, I'm coming up on my 2-year anniversary this April. I don't mind investing time.
The problem is the system just isn't FUN. Grinding individual stones isn't fun. And then refining them 5 at a time is awful.
My Artifact Weapon is Legendary. I got that by buying or identifying blues and refining them. Prior to the weapons going Live, I had purchased a large stash of them off the AH, so for the most part I didn't even have to grind for them.
On the first double refinement weekend, it took me about 11 hours over the course of 3 days to go from Epic to Legendary (35-60). That's purely pulling things out of my mail, sending stuff from toon to toon, and dropping in all in one weapon.
11 hours. On a doubled weekend. Purely the process. When my weapon finally hit level 60, I wasn't excited. I wanted to vomit. I had to turn the game off and lay down. That's NOT fun.
One, it rewards players for playing the game. It's a system that says, "Hey! You want the BEST stuff? Cool. Play the game." The more time you spend playing Neverwinter, the closer you get to Legendary items. So by default, Legendary items are rewarded to players who spend time in the game. And we know that playing players are paying players.
Second, the interface I laid out (which is identical to the already implemented Black Ice system) is easy. The hard part is earning the EXP. The easy part is spending it.
I just don't get why the Devs haven't even bothered to respond. We've put out ideas that could also be monetized more effectively AND help increase retention. But all we get is silence.
This is a major issue, and generally it's the top complaint you see from people (outside of PvP), and a big reason why people don't stick around much longer after hitting 60. Once they realize how far out of reach this stuff is, even if they play a lot, it kills the incentive to keep adventuring in Neverwinter.
I identified with some description because almost threw up also after reaching the level 60 could well set the feeling I had after this boring without notion and think about doing it again or replace new for old turns my stomach. seriously have faith though the devs listen to the community not to do exactly what we asked but to listen and implement your own product!
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited February 2015
I logged in, ran one random Tiamat, did my leadership/invoke and logged off.
I cant do it anymore, this game holds no joy for me, its not fun and I refuse to do this grinding they put in front of us. The progression pace is ridiculous , the process is annoying.
I really dont care about anything else, this simply is the biggest issue in thier game.
If they dont care enough for us to even respond, I cant care enough to play it.
I know some of you care enough about this lore to stay here, but I dont, even my beloved LOTRO (which I read a bazillion times) kept me only for 3.5 years, due to similar changes (dumped DDs for almost 6 months in favor of solo grind between mod releases.. boo to this)
I play a Massive multiplayer game for one reason, to play with others, whether that is pvping or pve. A few solo dailies are ok and breaks it up, but its too much, too often and there is simply no point in going further.
As someone who only has a cursory knowledge of DD and the realms (which honestly is probably the vast majority of players, Im broaching it from a purely play-ability side of the fence.) This game simply is not working for many of us.
In summary what we want is a basic RP income without normal drops and dragon hoard enchantments and in addition we want several ways to earn additional RP like the free drops (Guranteed Dungeon Chest Drops, etc.), bound RP with dragon hoard enchantments, buyable RP (Game Money AND Real Money) and maybe a fourth way (for example jewelcrafting which can generate more RP if you use money (Ingame or Real) to get better assets to generate more RP out of this way).
AND the possibilty to throw whole stacks in it?
Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited February 2015
I would, *would* spend AD on RP, but THIER ideal costs on RP are unfathomable. 30,000 for 5,000 RP? 300,000 for 50,000...!?
Comments
Two different types of RP process.
a. RP for enchants, has no complaints, it was fine as is per se.
and
b. RP for artifact gear, THIS is where our complaints are stemming from.
Also, either some of of you are ignoring all the arguments are just not paying attention, most of our complaints are derived from not being able to play, resource more then one toon anymore and/or being stuck into having to solo grind items to farm.
Apparently there are a few people who just want to grind, well most of us do not want to do that. Getting items to purple should be relative easy (as it is now for artifacts) but since you are locked out of retaining rp resources other then basically dragon hoards, you are stuck stacking dragon hoards just to farm <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
DRAGON HOARDS should be a BONUS, not the primary way to earn RP.
Also the 92k figure thrown out is ridiculous, you might get 12 white pearls a hour vs 12 opals, its all RNG. EVEn then you are just doing nothing but solo grind. and congrats, you are winning at farming. I wouldnt exactly boast about this, it makes me VERY sad as a long time MMO Veteran, that this statement is even thrown out. Grinding was what you did to level alts, get permanent modifiers (which were easier to attain then legendary level of artifact gear is). Heck in most other games you STILL invited your friends for a 300 giant slaying romp fest to get your boons.
BTW this whole (well I played some korean grind fest) just stop it, you chose to play that, I wouldnt, nor would I ever play a game that is specifically set up to do solo work like that. This is why this mod is so important, it will show what they are going to balance out, if they make it the same, then phooey on them.
The AMOUNT of RP you need to get multiple toons to purple even is ludicrous based on the amount of RP available for Artifact gear, let alone legendary.
Please, stop telling us about enchant RP, its not the problem atm.
For the first point, the only reason noone is complaining about RP for enchants is because BOTS farm low level enchants and shards and post them on the AH (more low level enchants). Also you can actually get shards to drop from dungeons, going from a greater to perfect is like 300k RP and shards are like 5000 each?
RP for gear ONLY became an issue with BOTS could no longer sell them on the AH.
BOTH of these "bot" issues stem from the fact that RATHER than REWARD the PLAYER for PLAYING the game, they make the "BEST" way to farm for RP doing grinding on mobs.
Rank 3/4s and Peridots should NOT be the best way to farm RP. It should be through ITEMS and DUNGEONS
I agree 100% Dragon Hoard should be a BONUS not the MAIN way.
Noone complained about RP prior to the bound on account/pickup change. RP was cheap.
NOW they have done that, and have not given us ways to farm it ourselves, its hopeless.
Yeah unfortunately this is true.
I mean you can even just look at RP from items and tell there is a major problem
green: 100RP
blue: 300 RP
Epic: 1200 RP?!
Why would I farm epics for 1200 RP when someone can set up a bot to farm Peridots and have multiple STACKS overnight?
Why would I even TRY to farm RP myself when the return on my time is SO low.
If you want to have players farm them, and NOT bots, you need to give more incentive to actually PLAY the game.
This can be done by increasing RP across the board for better items and reducing RP for lesser items. An Epic Item should be VERY valuable in using for RP
I would suggest something like
1 green = 10blues.
20 Blues = 1 T1 Epic
2 T1 Epics = 1 T2 epic ETC
This would mean that
Green = 100rp
blue = 1,000 RP
T1 Epic = 20,000RP
T2 Epic = 40,000 RP
etc....
EITHER that or look at REDUCING the RP required down to reasonable levels.
It's a start at least. At least this way you could put together a party and farm HE's as a group and earn something. It's not all the way there yet, but it's a good step imo.
Bear in mind that this thread was written by someone who has plenty of time to farm. I've put in 8, 10, even 12 hours solid farming on some days. It's not fun. One piece of artifact gear is a task enough to get to epic (and I choose epic as the focus of the discussion because, in most cases, you're replacing an EPIC tier piece of gear with said artifact, so it's not unreasonable to expect at least that level of advancement). Multiply that by four. I'm not focusing so much on artifacts (e.g. Lanterns of Revelation) because enchantments are by far much easier to get (I've racked up a hefty number just running around WoD killing stuff and dragon-go-rounds) and even a tier 4 is a better yield of RP than a green piece of gear. The grind to get artifacts up is more of a question of acquiring the necessary AD to get Greater Marks of Potency than a dearth of means to gain RP.
Artifact gear--belts, necks, weapons, offhands--now that's entirely a horse of a different color. You can't refine gear with enchantments, and the amount gained for equipment drops is paltry in comparison even with matching type (200 for a matching piece of green gear vs. 270 for a t4 enchantment and you don't have to worry about type, and that's before crits....really?). Bear in mind that this module will include a new CLASS--that means refining four pieces of gear all over again. Just that alone will turn a lot of people off to trying out the OP, but that's a different discussion there. Also, there are far more sources of enchantments and shards than there are for RP items that can be used for gear.
Union/stability/power stones? Great for artifacts. Lest we forget, though, gear does not have an attribute (union, stability, power). Therefore, such stones are nowhere near as useful for gear items. You get 1/5 the advertised value for using an attribute stone on an item not of that attribute--giving attribute stones to refine gear is no better than simply giving peridots or pearls.
Increasing the sources of RP for artifact items is all fine and good. It's a step in the general right direction. But it nowhere near addresses the bigger problem. It does not touch the task of refining artifact gear to an acceptable level.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
I honestly have to assume the devs have in their magic toolbox the option to instantly make any piece of artifact gear any level they want it to be, and have never actually sat down and tested the physical act of dragging and dropping a bazillion peridots into an item 5 at a time, or identifying whichever trash drops meet your threshold for "worth it" and dragging them over one at a time. Or they tested it with blood rubies, which negates the consideration of the low average amount of RP gained per action (yeah, even the opals).
Even if they tested out the system prior to approving it for release, they can't have done so for more than a few minutes before deciding it seemed fine, and there is no way they actually made legendary gear in a fashion that mimicked ordinary play. For one thing, it would have been utterly impossible on their development schedule; no staff member would have had that kind of time. Whatever model they were using to determine the system was fit for release was already using unrealistic standards.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
It's not really any better to look at it from the perspective of us being meant to refine our junk only at the end of a play session, or when our bags can't hold any more, whichever comes first. Because we all understand that this is a way to get nowhere very slowly. (Still 4k short of rank 36 on the main hand of the character I've got running Gnarlroot this week with saved keys, based on cramming weapons into it and saving the stones.)
Look at how many people say they vendor their rank 1s and 2s because they're not worth the trouble.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Whilst I agree with your point the interface is still no better if you use it to refine a small number of things as they drop in the world, which seems to be more in keeping with the intent of the design.
Go create a new account. Lvl 60. Without using existing AD/RP you have on any other account. See how long it takes you to farm the arti gear to even purple. It takes longer than it should. (from players perspective)
The math you keep talking about.
Purple > fomorion/dread legion/ancient
If you are arguing you need anything more than ancient. Thats for a diff topic.
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I'll even add one more caveat: Do so within the standard 2-4 hour total play time window that the average player has. That means blocking off a substantial amount of time for farming RP.
I've done this. I've put in six plus HOURS of farming on a daily basis. I've put in more hours farming than most players have for the entirety of their available playtime. That's between the occasional DD and Tiamat run. I've run so many circles in WoD I can probably navigate on memory alone.
What do I have to show for it? Three DAYS to get a belt from 30 to not even 35. I can scarcely imagine what it must feel like to the average joe who has about 3 hours to play total in a day and has to block off a significant time of that for farming RP or spend massive amounts of AD--especially when they have more than one piece of gear to refine.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
You're missing the point of this thread. I'm not worried about getting legendary. However, you're trading an epic piece of gear for that artifact weapon. It's not unreasonable to expect that getting the artifact item to epic tier shouldn't take months.
Those that keep saying "you don't need orange gear" invariably miss the point. It's not about legendary. It's about reasonable gear progression.
FYI: To show what all that farming has gotten so far (and that I'm not some lowbie asking for an easy ride for other players), a snapshot of my current character sheet:
The neck piece is rank 21 and the belt is 33. All other artifact gear is 35 or better. At any rate, yes, with that gear score, I don't need legendary. But it's been one doozy of a time getting it all just to epic.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
So far I'm past caring about the game improving.
Neverwinter must have character strength progression included in fun aspects of the game.
Sadly, this is where Im at as well
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
That's the bottom line for me.
I don't mind the "grind" or something taking a long time. Hell, I'm coming up on my 2-year anniversary this April. I don't mind investing time.
The problem is the system just isn't FUN. Grinding individual stones isn't fun. And then refining them 5 at a time is awful.
My Artifact Weapon is Legendary. I got that by buying or identifying blues and refining them. Prior to the weapons going Live, I had purchased a large stash of them off the AH, so for the most part I didn't even have to grind for them.
On the first double refinement weekend, it took me about 11 hours over the course of 3 days to go from Epic to Legendary (35-60). That's purely pulling things out of my mail, sending stuff from toon to toon, and dropping in all in one weapon.
11 hours. On a doubled weekend. Purely the process. When my weapon finally hit level 60, I wasn't excited. I wanted to vomit. I had to turn the game off and lay down. That's NOT fun.
It's why I suggested the Experience system.
One, it rewards players for playing the game. It's a system that says, "Hey! You want the BEST stuff? Cool. Play the game." The more time you spend playing Neverwinter, the closer you get to Legendary items. So by default, Legendary items are rewarded to players who spend time in the game. And we know that playing players are paying players.
Second, the interface I laid out (which is identical to the already implemented Black Ice system) is easy. The hard part is earning the EXP. The easy part is spending it.
I just don't get why the Devs haven't even bothered to respond. We've put out ideas that could also be monetized more effectively AND help increase retention. But all we get is silence.
This is a major issue, and generally it's the top complaint you see from people (outside of PvP), and a big reason why people don't stick around much longer after hitting 60. Once they realize how far out of reach this stuff is, even if they play a lot, it kills the incentive to keep adventuring in Neverwinter.
That being said when got my first artifact to purple - not organge mind you - but purple I decided that participating in the RP system part of the game was pretty much not something that was for me. Like a lot of AD cost of upgrades in this game (pet/mount) the cost are just way to high. From green to blue refining seemed fine but after that it just got rediculous. So, basically I upgrade my stuff to blues and call it done. This limits my gearscore and ulimatly puts a cap on the level of power any one on my toons can reach which is not fun.
At a minimum they need make it where you can put a stack of those stones in one of the 5 slots. Thats a basic quaility of life if they want to keep the system intact. At least reduce the housekeaping for the system.
That being said - I would really like to see mutiple ways of leveing gear. The use of Overflow xp is my favorite concept for system overhall.
Additionally I would like to be able to DE green weapon/armor drops into residium (or something else - in lore DE a magic weapon gives residium) and be able to use that in refinement as well. As it stands greem drops are worthless - I dont pick them up unless I miss click and I surely don't waste an ID scroll on them. Yes, greens at 70 might be valuable for a few weeks - tops. If the DE is to much interface clicking (and it very well might be) then alow the use of Green drops directly in the rifinement interface. There has to be a ritual or whatever to allow a magic item to absorb the power of another item.
Still - overflow XP seems to be the cleanest easiest way. And it fun to kill stuff to make a character - or an item - more powerfull.
A Day in the Life of a Ranger
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The Mines of Gubasso Daily!
NW-DN7Z5LHAR
The Vault of Hargon Daily!
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The best we can hope for is that RP drops are bigger and/or more frequent. I can't see any bigger changes popping up any day soon.
And I suspect the reason the devs have not commented on any of the various suggestions is that they know that it ain't gonna change.
This is likely it.
I suppose we'll see an increase drop rate on some stuff, and maybe slightly bigger stones. But no major changes to the actual system.
I identified with some description because almost threw up also after reaching the level 60 could well set the feeling I had after this boring without notion and think about doing it again or replace new for old turns my stomach. seriously have faith though the devs listen to the community not to do exactly what we asked but to listen and implement your own product!
I cant do it anymore, this game holds no joy for me, its not fun and I refuse to do this grinding they put in front of us. The progression pace is ridiculous , the process is annoying.
I really dont care about anything else, this simply is the biggest issue in thier game.
If they dont care enough for us to even respond, I cant care enough to play it.
I know some of you care enough about this lore to stay here, but I dont, even my beloved LOTRO (which I read a bazillion times) kept me only for 3.5 years, due to similar changes (dumped DDs for almost 6 months in favor of solo grind between mod releases.. boo to this)
I play a Massive multiplayer game for one reason, to play with others, whether that is pvping or pve. A few solo dailies are ok and breaks it up, but its too much, too often and there is simply no point in going further.
As someone who only has a cursory knowledge of DD and the realms (which honestly is probably the vast majority of players, Im broaching it from a purely play-ability side of the fence.) This game simply is not working for many of us.
Devs?
AND the possibilty to throw whole stacks in it?