I felt that Restoring strike should be an Aoe (then People will value it a LOT more) . or While unstoppable we should gain additional Life on hit / Lifesteal chance (in that case we'd have more sustain when we are in our "rage" state thus giving us more of a Berserker style of combat, which is really cool and fun )
from my experience @ lvl 70, the changes fix gwf damage issues, i do like that they went without cc since that might be over the top in PvP
General
Unstoppable needs more damage resistance
the encounter that throws daggers shouldnt have jump back
in PvE
damage should be fine, now we need reliable defense - life steal(or some other heal) and/or damage resistance, with stat changes base DR is really low - 18% at 3.2k def
in PvP
since we dont get any dodge immunities we need some defense that isnt ignored by the ****ton of ArP added in mod 6, both stat and enchants, imho unstoppable should provide more damage resistance and that damage resistance should ignore ArP and enchants, some single target damage/cc,
this seems to be a good idea, most classes now have more dodges so adding encounter with gap closer and a cc would be just whats needed
Iron Vanguard : Inexorable Shift (Throw yourself at an enemy, and knock them back/down) This could be a targeted encounter so we finally have a targetted stun / prone outside of savage advance Information from here
this could be used in place of daring shout, daring shout could be merged with come and get it making it a good tanking option, this would solve possible problems with intimidation
or restoring could be merged with not so fast making it aoe heal + slow and the new encounter could take its place
or takedown could be improved with gap closer and a bit more damage, though restoring and not so fast needs a look, daring and come and get it could use a merge too
Have a look at how feedback if provided in their threads though, a lot of their threads have more of the color coded feedback than ours does we need to give feedback in the way they said so we can get it through that we seriously need fixing.
Feedback : Feats
A lot of our feats need general reworks, such as Grit and Unfettering strikes, Grit's 3% max hp heal just is not enough to be viable at all in any sense, and Unfettering strikes movement speed is barely useful for a destroyer.
First of all, I would change Grit to be a Temp hp % of around 5/10/15% added when you are healed by a power, with a cooldown of 25 seconds, This gives it viability to be used in pvp, and in pve instances.
Unstoppable Recovery : (Tier 1 Sentinel feat) - Change this to a heal that heals you for .5/1/1.5/2/2.5 % Max hp per second during unstoppable . So at 8 seconds unstoppable (max possible) , thats a 20% max hp heal. Its spread out over a long time, if too strong add an CD of 45 seconds.
Unfettering strikes could be reworked into a "counter" skill, that when you deflect from melee has a chance to proc dealing damage back (with an ICD of course) , But this sounds a lot like a GF power more than a GWF one.
There are heaps of viable skills from D&D that could be considered also in place of the unused / lesser used ones.
Iron Vanguard : Inexorable Shift (Throw yourself at an enemy, and knock them back/down) This could be a targeted encounter so we finally have a targetted stun / prone outside of savage advance Information from here
Swordmaster : Steel Blitz works quite different in D&D, whenever you crit, you have the ability to use another encounter you recently used. As this would be broken, maybe change it so it reduces existing cooldowns and 25% when you crit (with a ICD of 10-15 seconds) (information gotten from here)
Precision Cut : another swordmaster skill, this one is decribed as "You slip your blade past your enemy’s armor and slice him just so, leaving a bleeding gash." Piercing damage + bleed??
I understand some of these Suggestions are more towards a total class rework, but we may need one of them.. if not in mod 6, definitely so in mod 7.
There are alot of blue posts in the thread, they get washed out in a SEA of blue though, thus many start to try and spruce up their posts with more colors so its not just a sea of BLUE.
First of all, I would change Grit to be a Temp hp % of around 5/10/15% added when you are healed by a power, with a cooldown of 25 seconds, This gives it viability to be used in pvp, and in pve instances.
15% in PVE = 7.5% PVP I would suggest this being improved even more to 10/15/20% and given a 30 sec ICD. Now this actually means something in both PVE and PVP.
Unstoppable Recovery : (Tier 1 Sentinel feat) - Change this to a heal that heals you for .5/1/1.5/2/2.5% Max hp per second during unstoppable . So at 8 seconds unstoppable (max possible) , thats a 20% max hp heal. Its spread out over a long time, if too strong add an CD of 45 seconds.
I REALLY like this idea, however fear that the entire class MUST now get this feat to be viable. I never like a feat being required, but I guess its an easy change to help alleviate some of the issues.
Again, in PVP at MAX its a 10% HoT. This seems VERY underwhelming given the fact it takes nearly 40-50% of your HP to earn a max unstoppable. Id honestly RATHER have this give us an EXTRA say "5% Temp HP per second". This would be 40% Temp HP max (replacing what was lost) HOWEVER temp HP fades over time thus the 5% Temp HP (2.5% in PVP) you got at second "1" would have already "faded by the time you got out of unstoppable.
This ALSO helps the class in PVP because now coming out of unstoppable we would have some "trail Temp HP" that can help us towards the next Unstoppable. It would remove the "base healing" which still makes us NEED a healer, however it does give us tools to survive.
Unfettering strikes could be reworked into a "counter" skill, that when you deflect from melee has a chance to proc dealing damage back (with an ICD of course) , But this sounds a lot like a GF power more than a GWF one.
I think we need the movement speed TBH. The only change to this would be increasing the movement speed bonus to 6 seconds instead of 4. This allows for mobility. The OTHER option would be to make this like a CW feat where you gain back stamina when crit. This also would allow for more stamina (which is a big weakness of ours).
Iron Vanguard : Inexorable Shift (Throw yourself at an enemy, and knock them back/down) This could be a targeted encounter so we finally have a targetted stun / prone outside of savage advance Information from here
LOVE this idea. Basically an "encounter" version of Savage Advance. JUST like all the other moves such as the "Fissure" move copies the GF daily. This Inexorable Shift could COPY Savage Advanace but as an Encounter. LOVE IT!
Swordmaster : Steel Blitz works quite different in D&D, whenever you crit, you have the ability to use another encounter you recently used. As this would be broken, maybe change it so it reduces existing cooldowns and 25% when you crit (with a ICD of 10-15 seconds) (information gotten from here)
This could be JUST the change SwordMasters need. I LOVE this. This would make Steel Blitz + Weapon Master a VERY deadly combo however in PVE you would lose "Destroyer" stacks which also are a big damage boost.
Maybe for each rank it would be: Whenever you crit, reduce your cooldowns by 50% (remember 100% CD reduction means it was cut in HALF) So this would be 4 crits for an instant CD reset. This would make SM VERY strong.
Then you have other suggestions that are AWESOME such as:
Restoring Strike: Turn this attack "sideways" and make it an AoE! Self HEALING!!!
Come and Get it, Combine this with Daring Shout: Pulls enemies in, debuffs them (mark) AND boosts damage for a short time (plus intimidation) which makes this a good PVE ability.
That would open the "room" for that new ability "Inexorable Shift".
ALL of this would put the GWF back into competitive area. The two most notable for PVP would be "Unstoppable Recovery" granting 5% Temp HP per each second in unstoppable along with the gap closer "Inexorable Shift". This would allow GWFs to use sprint more defensively.
For PVE the CAGI+DS combo along with Steel Blitz would be pretty dangerous! I could see Steel Blitz being very strong for DPS in all classes but not as good for tanking because of Mark on Threat Rush.
I REALLY REALLY want this now. Like. So .. sooo badly. I will be so upset when/if it doesnt happen at least partially.
On a related note, do we have a class advocate yet? because if we wont have one all this is potentially going to waste.
Also for
Swordmaster : Steel Blitz works quite different in D&D, whenever you crit, you have the ability to use another encounter you recently used. As this would be broken, maybe change it so it reduces existing cooldowns and 25% when you crit (with a ICD of 10-15 seconds) (information gotten from here)
My idea was a 25% reduction of existing cooldowns, But I forgot that 100% is half not 50%. I added an ICD also as 4 crits is VERY easy to get. Maybe a Tweak would be 50% of the current cooldown (so 20 sec goes to 15 sec, if the same cooldown was at 12 secs it would become 8 seconds) With an 5/4/3/2 (scales with level) second cooldown on Proccing Steel blitz?? or do you think it has to be the TOTAL cooldown to be worth it. even if it was a 2 second cooldown and total cooldowns, it means the shortest cooldown you'd have is 8 seconds, but due to the large number of possible crits I feel this would be too overpowered and that reducing the remaining cooldown instead is more balanced.
Finally figured out why my Weapon Master won't work or stack at all.
Once it's 4th tier, Weapon Master stops working for me completely. Til then it's fine.
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kieranmtornMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 382Arc User
edited February 2015
Feedback(PVE):
Mighty Blade: What is an AOE, I'm tired of having to test to see which skill qualifies as AOE for each skill and special case (this gets very old).
Warrior's Courage: another pointless passive class skill. No reason to waste skill points here.
Wrathful Determination: not pointless but clearly very limited utility. A Destroyer build should never use this, since going unstoppable is your basic desired state as a GWF. Possibly useful to an Instigator or Sentinel.
Unfettered Strikes: Say what? A buff to my running away ability. Not going to waste skill points here until I'm forced to.
One thing I'm concerned with is the difficulty with health sustain when in HE's & Dungeons (not normal adventuring). I already feat Unstoppable Recovery and a large amount of Life Steal (with 2 boons from ToD, Endless Consumption, and a Perfect Lifedrinker for testing). I'm managing, but I'd hate so see what people with less gear/boons are going to face.
"How is the power working now on preview? Explain what you were doing, in great detail." Both on live and on Preview the DR gain is too low. With the removal of in combat regen, GWFs feel VERY squishy. The Temp HP we gain and poor DR we gain feels like nothing at all.
This is even more apparent in PVP. I run into combat and literally will get 1 shot by a TR using shocking execute in stealth. I have over 40k HP and I get one shot. Even if I dont, a TR can lashing blade crit for 25-30k easily, and once I pop unstoppable I get a VERY small amount of Temp HP back and his Shadow of Demise will proc (multiple times with enchants like GPF) and bypass the DR boost I get IN unstoppable.
Even if they are not Exec TRs, MANY classes have piercing damage that bypass the DR we gain. 15% is hardly even noticeable for a class that has to FACE TANK damage with NO immunity frames from dodges. Overall even playing my Sentinel feels like I am playing a class wearing cloth or leather. Classes like TR, HR, CW who all SHOULD be less tanky than my Sentinel GWF are much MORE tanky.
"Why do you like or dislike this power? Explain why you feel this way in great detail." I dislike this power because it is such a crutch for the class. The class is very squishy both inside and outside unstoppable. The DR gain is minimal especially with more classes able to stack higher amounts of ARP. The worst thing about it was when it was changed to be a % of HP rather than total damage taken, but they did NOT account for the DR factor. In the past you could take 12-15k DAMAGE which would only be about 6-7k of your HP to get unstoppable. Now you must actually lose that 12-15k of your HP, which is a massive nerf to the class.
Even the duration is short, most classes have ranged ability or the ability to dodge the GWF, MOST of the time when fighting a class they will damage you down and CC you until you pop unstoppable. You THEN have to use sprint IN unstoppable to CATCH the class, because our CC was nerfed, however the second you get close to them, they dodge with immunity frames and it only takes about 2 dodges before you are back out of unstoppable. Then you are susceptible to CC and damage again because you had to spend sprint to CATCH the class in the first place.
"In what way do you feel it should be changed? Explain in great detail." Unstoppable needs a few changes.
1) The DR needs to be brought up a tad, even 20-40% would help.
2) The amount of HP you lose needs to DECREASE from where it is at right now. Currently its AROUND 20/25% for half a bar and 40/50% for a full 8 second bar. This needs to be brought DOWN to about <15% HP lost for HALF a bar and <30% HP lost for a FULL bar.
3) The Temp HP you gain from unstoppable should be reworked. I do not JUST like buffing the temp HP but rather copy the PnP mechanic over from "Battlerager Vigor" - Where you gain temporary hit points each time you are struck in combat. However this can be REWORKED to be you gain Temp HP each time you are struck IN UNSTOPPABLE. For this I would suggest around 4% based on determination. Meaning you pop unstoppable with half a bar, you will gain 4% Temp HP PER HIT you take during unstoppable with a 1 sec ICD. This would mean a FULL amount of TEMP HP at 4 seconds would be 16%. While an 8 second Unstoppable would be up to 32%. This is HALVED in PVP. The reason this would be so powerful is part of that temp HP NEEDs to carry over after unstoppable ends and assists you in earning your NEXT unstoppable.
4) *REMOVE* the fact that you cannot gain determination during unstoppable. While IN unstoppable if we take enough damage or as a destroyer - deal enough damage - we should be able to extend the duration of unstoppable. Think about it. We have increased DR so we wont earn THAT much and most classes dont attack us anyways, however if we are attacked during unstoppable we should be gaining that temp HP AND determination which extends unstoppable.
5) *REMOVE* the at will damage penalty during unstoppable. This never made sense and makes unstoppable frankly lack luster for damage purposes.
"Why do you feel it should be changed this way? Explain why you feel this would be better in great detail." I feel it should be changed in this way because GWFs are HEAVILY reliant on Unstoppable. GWFs have to face tank damage to earn their mechanic while other classes (like TR) can use encounters to insta fill their stealth meter. GFs is based on stamina meter and have abilities that regen stamina for blocking. Other classes like CW have a perma shield as well as near infinite dodges if you try and attack them. GWFs have no such thing, no "escape" mechanic, no "dodge" ability, no "immunity frames" and whats worse is we cant even unstoppable on command, we are reliant on OTHER classes/mobs attacking us to THEN grant us this ability. So Unstoppable is NOT something we can use on command or even at full HP, it requires us to lose HP to gain it. When we do, the DR is too small to notice, classes hit us with a ton of piercing damage that bypass all that DR, AND the amount of temp hp "buffer" we have is too small to help at all.... Then we are FORCED to use our only other defensive tool (sprint) for offensive purposes DURING unstoppable to even get TO the target.
I feel the changes above not only will assist in PVP play but also PVE play. The ability to extend unstoppable helps if we are REALLY under fire and taking heavy hits. The ability to generate temp hp when stuck helps this out as well - the more damage we take the tankier we end up getting. Ontop of that, the ability to use at wills without a damage reduction IN unstoppable would be great as well! Finally, the amount of HP we must lose AND the DR boost truly help when you actually DO pop unstoppable.
+1 To all of this. Determination has been nerfed into the ground. I have a BIS GWF that's not even fun to play anymore because of a series of nerfs to the class but unstoppable is clutch for this class, we lost all ability to survive with nerfs to Determination and to DR gains as well as the nonsensical piercing damage that is broken and yet continues to exist. Until they fix these issues GWF is a dead class in PVP and most certainly not very fun to play. One shots from every class in the form of SE, Iceknife, ridiculous constricting arrows +Bleed ticks. This class needs some serious love and Determination/unstoppable is the first place they need it.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
FEEDBACK: Weapon Master Stacks, and Destroyer (Focused Destroyer) Stacks.
"How is the power working now on preview? Explain what you were doing, in great detail." Currently the fact that we can get 4 stacks now up from 3 is GREAT! With the nerf to all stats this allows for a GWF to reach a decent amount of crit, which can potentially enable them to compete with other classes like TR (100% stealth crit) and CW (eots 100% crit). This issue is that BOTH of these stacks are VERY poorly implemented with stack duration.
I have been testing alot of builds on the PTR, as well as this is the same mechanic from LIVE, and the stacks just fall off FAR too fast. Weapon Master is not as bad since its 100% chance to gain a stack on hitting, however in PVE if you cannot sprint or are out of threat rush charges, sometimes you can have these stacks fall off.
This too is even worse when it comes to PVP. Its nearly impossible to get full stacks of weapon master and keep them up, same with Destroyer, you are lucky to get 1 let alone two stacks of this feat. It is far too hard to sustain and considering ALOT of our damage comes from these abilities, its very frustrating to get kited around, unable to attack or even proned unable to attack and lose stacks.
It also makes daily powers like "Avalanche of Steel" worthless since you lose all the stacks in the animation it takes you to jump up and back down. In PVE, by the time you DO get 1 or 2 stacks the mobs are already dead, and in dungeons this is the same as well. You finally get "up to speed" with stacking and the fight is over, or you are running over to another mob only to lose your stacks. NO other class is THIS reliant on stacks that only last such a short duration.
"Why do you like or dislike this power? Explain why you feel this way in great detail." I like these powers because they give us much needed boosts. Weapon Master gives crit and Destroyer gives damage. I VERY much dislike how fast the stacks fall off. It hurts the class very much since the "variance" in damage can be so great. A Destroyer with full Destroyer stacks and Weapon Master Stacks can be VERY beastly however there is such FEW small scenarios or opportunities to even get INTO this position.
What I fear the most is this translation over to the console version is going to be even more apparent since its hard to get these stacks on a PC! Think of how hard it will be on an Xbox!
"In what way do you feel it should be changed? Explain in great detail." The IDEAL to me would actually be to have the stacks last for as long as you are in combat. If you leave combat you start getting regen back, as long as you are in combat if you build a stack you should retain that stack until you leave. This makes gaining the stacks just as hard to get, however much easier to retain if you are TRYING To stay in combat. If you are trying to avoid combat, then its fair to lose them.
Either that or even given something like an 8 second duration could work as well. Something that makes it easier to gain stacks and keep them. For the most part I like the in combat out of combat idea as this is more common sense IMO. If your in combat fighting, you dont get regen, and you take time to build up your damage. The second you leave combat stacks fall off and you lose "momentum" this makes you have inecntive to chain "encounter (meaning combat encounters) rather than wait for regen however must balance that with your HP as well. Given Regen in combat is gone, I think this presents a fair tradeoff between damage and survival.
"Why do you feel it should be changed this way? Explain why you feel this would be better in great detail." I feel it needs to be changed because GWFs have alot of very key hard choices with features. Run Speed is something we VERY much need so Bravery ends up being a default for many. The features just seem rather lackluster from what they could be. This is less apparent in PVE with more "uptime" but VERY apparent in PVP with how many times a GWF can be "kited" around unable to attack. Part of this has to do with other mechanics like sprint versus their dodges as well, but it makes these "stacking" feats un reliable and while they WOULD be great options they are just too lack luster to play with. Especially Destroyer because of the low chance to gain a stack and the VERY small window it is actually up. Also now that in combat regen is gone, GWFs will need to rely more on lifesteal and stacking lifesteal, however if their damage is unreliable because of the short duration of these stacks, its makes the class FAR too unstable.
I have been testing our stamina gain on PTR and LIVE. My GWF has 24 STR (14% Stam Gain) and another 5% in stamina recharge stat for a total of 19% Stamina Recharge. Spending my FULL sprint meter it takes me 18 seconds to regen it back to full.
I hop over to my TR who has 18 STR(8% Stam regen) along with 2 points in a feat for a total of 12% more Stamina Regen (6% LESS than my GWF) however I spend my entire meter (dodge 4 times doesnt do it, so I wait and roll AGAIN to FULLY spend the whole meter) and he can recharge his entire stamina bar in just 16 seconds
If all things were EQUAL, My stamina recharge at 12% should be 16 seconds, Adding another 7% recharge should make me FULLY regen in about 14.5seconds. Thus Our STAMINA gain needs to be increased ABOUT 25%.
OVERALL: Our BASE stamina Regen Rate needs to be increased!!!
"How is the power working now on preview? Explain what you were doing, in great detail." Currently the capstone is providing a significant amount of damage, however the class does not gain anything special over the Destroyer Capstone which has more perks than just damage. Destroyer Capstone damage boost lasts for 25 seconds (admittedly takes more to GET stacks) however it ALSO enables you to earn determination based on damage dealt.
I have been testing some INSTA builds on the PTR to try and make a GWF focused on Sprint/Run Speed but everything I try is just so LackLuster. You are MUCH worse off that Destroyer because not only do you have no way to generate Determination (like Destroyer) you dont have increased DR in unstoppable (like Sent). So its seems there is some room for improvement for this spec.
"Why do you like or dislike this power? Explain why you feel this way in great detail." Everything in this tree is just so lakc-luster with the exception of Student of the Sword as well as Viscous Advantage. Things like "Fleet Footed" only giving a 3 second run speed AFTER controlling a target? You ALREADY have to be ontop of the target to control them, so it seems the buff is un needed when its granted.
Things like "Group Assault" for being a T4(T5 on PTR) feat, only giving 10% more damage seems VERY poor. Or even the Capstone not giving anything but damage bonus, where the other tree capstones give both utility and either damage or DR.
I run into a group of mobs in PVE, I get hit 2-3 times which gives me some damage bonus, I use some encounters, they just dont hit THAT hard and once I kill I try to move to the next group but my capstone stacks have fallen off. Contrast to my Destroyer who can easily keep his Destroyer Stacks up between mobs. I get the "tradeoff" however considering the lack of utility and damage feats this tree has... It leaves alot to be desired.
"In what way do you feel it should be changed? Explain in great detail." I have a few Ideas I will detail out here:
Tier 1: Fleet Footed:
Option 1) Whenever CONTROLLED BY a target, increase your run speed by 3/6/9/12/15% for 6 seconds. This will nto be as useful in PVE however if you are ever controlled or affected by control you usually want more run speed afterwards. When you control someone else, you generally do not need more run speed because they are controlled.
Option 2) When you sprint, you gain 15% more run speed. This one basically just makes Sprint faster. Would be very useful for alot of builds.
Tier 3(LIVE) / 4 (PTR): Allied Opportunity: Mighty Leap and Not so Fast need to be given a MUCH higher damage boost combined with a much lower CD. This should MIMIC Relentless Battle Fury. Cooldowns Reduced 50%. Damage increased 30%. Not So Fasts slow debuff lasts 25% longer.
Tier 3(LIVE) / 4 (PTR): Nimble Runner: 10% more deflect is very poor bonus considering you can get 5% up 100% of the time from a Tier 1 feat in Sentinel. This should ALSO either increase your stamina recharge or decrease the amount of stamina drain while sprinting.
Tier 4(LIVE) / 5 (PTR): Group Assault: This should be an AoE damage increase by 40% (Greater than the PTR new Tier 3 feat for Destroyers of 30% more AOE damage)
Tier 5 (LIVE) / 6 PTR: Capstone: Instigators Vengeance: Increase the duration of each stack to 8 seconds (up from 6) ALSO:
Option 1) Also, this feat should Gain determination by spending stamina. This gives the Instagator an ability to generate determination on their own given they cannot do it by DEALING damage like Destroyer and their Unstoppable is not as tanky as the Sentinels.
Option 2) INSTEAD of giving determination from sprinting (like the TR) Give stamina gain based upon being struck (like the CW). This way, Instagators have much more sprint-ability when being attacked and also gain damage stacks when being attacked. This allows them to be the most mobile of the GWF classes which makes them a little tankier than the Destroyer with less damage, but not as tanky as the Sentinel but they have more damage.... Its a fair middle ground.
"Why do you feel it should be changed this way? Explain why you feel this would be better in great detail." I feel these changes are due since Instagators have never been good at all. They have no utility function like Destroyers in gaining determination. They are not as tanky as a Sentinel, their stack/damage gain is clunky and falls off too fast between being stuck (not to mention if you control a target you risk stacks falling off) Giving them the above changes not only boosts their AoE DPS, it makes their stacks much more reliable, it gives them utility with either having MORE sprint or gaining determination faster. This would put Instagator in a sweet spot as far as tradeoffs and now you have three somewhat viable paths.
GWFs still retain problems overall, so I would still strongly suggest the Unstoppable Rework as detailed above as well. These changes however would make the Instagator a much more "frontline" GWF, more tanky than a destroyer but not as much damage. More damage than a Sent but not as tanky. The perfect sweet spot.
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icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
edited February 2015
aryoux has both the knowledge and passion for GWF, I would very much love to vote him for GWF advocate! Gonna file in a request sooner or later!
SCALE AGILITY ---> You gain 10% chance to deflect attacks (up to 5%).
POWERFUL CHALLENGE ---> You deal an additional 30% damage to Marked Targets ( up to 15%).
INTIMIDATION ---> Daring Shout and Come and Get It now do 350% of your weapon damage as physical damage.
MASTER AT ARMS ---> Weapon Master now also grants 10% deflect chance (up to 2%) .
SENTINEL'S AEGIS ---> Increase effectiveness of your DEFENSE STAT. by 60% (up to 20%) . Unstoppable now Grants 60-100% Damage Resistance
Scale Agility: Being a T1 feat I think this is actually OK.
Powerful Challenge: Please no more damage boosts from Mark. I actually think this should be removed and Powerful Challenge now instead gives 50% more THREAT to marked targets. But rather than JUST a nerf, GWFs should be given BACK that damage with Strength. STR should give 2% Damage boost and 2% Stamina Recharge (up from 1%/1%)
Intimidation: 350% Weapon damage - COMPLETELY agree. I would even Love to see this turned into a DoT like DCs Fire of the Gods deal... 100% Weapon damage every second for 15 seconds.. This also removes the "burst" from this ability but gives it a nice DPS boost for tanking.
Master at Arms: This grants 2% PER STACK. You can currently get 10% deflect from this (I think its bugged) I dont think this needs a buff IMO. As mentioned before (in previous thread) having these stacks up for Combat duration would make it more powerful already.
SENTINEL'S AEGIS: You basically already have 100% DR since most Sents have about 55%+ DR out of unstoppable. Unstop adds 30%+ DR Putting you over the cap of 80%.
What should happen to Sent Aegis is you build 20% more determination from TAKING damage as well as the Defense stat is increased 20%. This would give faster access to unstoppable.
The 4 pieces/full set bonus shall be changed for sure into : TITAN'S STRENGTH: this set grants you 25% of your defense as power
Right now (both Live and test), the "use a daily -> +15% to DR and Run speed" ' buff is useless, basically, due it only works/is useful with Spinning Strike and Slam...
I'd rather it worked the other way around or something and gave you more defence based power. But that could cause an endless loop with the heroic feat unless it was coded not to include the power given by feats. (perhaps 25% of power given by items goes to defence, or increases your max hp by x% of your defence)
At the same time though. titans set is a level 60 set, i'd rather save awesome 4 set bonuses for the new sets that are coming.
I'd rather it worked the other way around or something and gave you more defence based power. But that could cause an endless loop with the heroic feat unless it was coded not to include the power given by feats. (perhaps 25% of power given by items goes to defence, or increases your max hp by x% of your defence)
At the same time though. titans set is a level 60 set, i'd rather save awesome 4 set bonuses for the new sets that are coming.
Issue is that Titan set doesnt have much power... The defense it gives would be meaningless.
I like this as an idea. Grants you power = to a % of defense.
Although I dont know if 25% is good enough for a 4 pc TBH. Even if you have 10k Defense thats only 2500 Power which with the new curve is like 6% dmg which is pretty small TBH.
If you REALLY want to make it useful then it would grant something like 10% of your defence as BOTH armor pen AND power.
Now at 10k Defense you would get 1k ARP and 1k POWER which would be only 2.5% dmg boost but would give like 10% ARP.
We are making some adjustments to GWF sustained throughput as well as remove some debuffs that were rather difficult to understand on the fly. Additionally the Swordmaster buffs will also affect Guardian Fighters. These buffs should help round out several powers that were underperforming and improve GWF damage overall, putting them in a more competitive place in longer fights.
Great Weapon Fighter
Unstoppable: No longer reduces the damage of At Will powers.
Reaping Strike: Damage no longer decreased for hitting multiple targets.
Reaping Strike: Damage increased by roughly 25%.
Reaping Strike: Determination gain while charging Reaping Strike is now increased by 25% base (up from 5%) and now gains 10% per rank (up from 5%).
Reaping Strike: Damage Resistance granted while charging Reaping Strike has been increased to 20% (up from 8%).
Sure Strike: Damage of the final strike increased by roughly 30%.
Wicked Strike: No longer does reduced damage when hitting multiple targets.
Wicked Strike: Damage of the final strike increased by roughly 15%.
Swordmaster: Weapon Master's Stirke: Damage increased by roughly 50%.
Swordmaster: Weapon Master's Stirke: Debuff now lasts 6 seconds by default and gains 2 seconds per rank (up from 3 and 1 respectively).
Swordmaster: Weapon Master's Stirke: No longer does reduced damage when hitting multiple targets.
Great Weapon Fighter: Feats: Intimidation: This feat now deals 25/50/75/100/125% of your weapon damage (instead of scaling on your power). This damage is amplified by power. Intimidated targets now take 100/200/300/400/500% more threat from you (up from 10/20/30/40/50%).
Great Weapon Fighter: Feats: Sentinel's Aegis: Now also passively increases threat generation by 250%.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
We are making some adjustments to GWF sustained throughput as well as remove some debuffs that were rather difficult to understand on the fly. Additionally the Swordmaster buffs will also affect Guardian Fighters. These buffs should help round out several powers that were underperforming and improve GWF damage overall, putting them in a more competitive place in longer fights.
Great Weapon Fighter
Unstoppable: No longer reduces the damage of At Will powers.
Reaping Strike: Damage no longer decreased for hitting multiple targets.
Reaping Strike: Damage increased by roughly 25%.
Reaping Strike: Determination gain while charging Reaping Strike is now increased by 25% base (up from 5%) and now gains 10% per rank (up from 5%).
Reaping Strike: Damage Resistance granted while charging Reaping Strike has been increased to 20% (up from 8%).
Sure Strike: Damage of the final strike increased by roughly 30%.
Wicked Strike: No longer does reduced damage when hitting multiple targets.
Wicked Strike: Damage of the final strike increased by roughly 15%.
Swordmaster: Weapon Master's Stirke: Damage increased by roughly 50%.
Swordmaster: Weapon Master's Stirke: Debuff now lasts 6 seconds by default and gains 2 seconds per rank (up from 3 and 1 respectively).
Swordmaster: Weapon Master's Stirke: No longer does reduced damage when hitting multiple targets.
Great Weapon Fighter: Feats: Intimidation: This feat now deals 25/50/75/100/125% of your weapon damage (instead of scaling on your power). This damage is amplified by power. Intimidated targets now take 100/200/300/400/500% more threat from you (up from 10/20/30/40/50%).
Great Weapon Fighter: Feats: Sentinel's Aegis: Now also passively increases threat generation by 250%.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Awesome! Great too see you here in the thread and the WMS Buff makes it very powerful. There has been some really awesome suggestions regarding our survivability and Stamina gain in the last few pages that are interesting and in line with 4e also so I'm keen to see any further changes that may be made before release.
Issue is that Titan set doesnt have much power... The defense it gives would be meaningless.
I like this as an idea. Grants you power = to a % of defense.
Although I dont know if 25% is good enough for a 4 pc TBH. Even if you have 10k Defense thats only 2500 Power which with the new curve is like 6% dmg which is pretty small TBH.
If you REALLY want to make it useful then it would grant something like 10% of your defence as BOTH armor pen AND power.
Now at 10k Defense you would get 1k ARP and 1k POWER which would be only 2.5% dmg boost but would give like 10% ARP.
I see your point there with the low power from the set, I just thought that a more powerful copy of one of our Heroic feats as a set bonus was boring. haha. I'd like too see a Set bonus that reduces our stamina use by x%and increases stamina regen in combat or something though, that could be cool.
We are making some adjustments to GWF sustained throughput as well as remove some debuffs that were rather difficult to understand on the fly. Additionally the Swordmaster buffs will also affect Guardian Fighters. These buffs should help round out several powers that were underperforming and improve GWF damage overall, putting them in a more competitive place in longer fights.
Great Weapon Fighter
Unstoppable: No longer reduces the damage of At Will powers.
Reaping Strike: Damage no longer decreased for hitting multiple targets.
Reaping Strike: Damage increased by roughly 25%.
Reaping Strike: Determination gain while charging Reaping Strike is now increased by 25% base (up from 5%) and now gains 10% per rank (up from 5%).
Reaping Strike: Damage Resistance granted while charging Reaping Strike has been increased to 20% (up from 8%).
Sure Strike: Damage of the final strike increased by roughly 30%.
Wicked Strike: No longer does reduced damage when hitting multiple targets.
Wicked Strike: Damage of the final strike increased by roughly 15%.
Swordmaster: Weapon Master's Stirke: Damage increased by roughly 50%.
Swordmaster: Weapon Master's Stirke: Debuff now lasts 6 seconds by default and gains 2 seconds per rank (up from 3 and 1 respectively).
Swordmaster: Weapon Master's Stirke: No longer does reduced damage when hitting multiple targets.
Great Weapon Fighter: Feats: Intimidation: This feat now deals 25/50/75/100/125% of your weapon damage (instead of scaling on your power). This damage is amplified by power. Intimidated targets now take 100/200/300/400/500% more threat from you (up from 10/20/30/40/50%).
Great Weapon Fighter: Feats: Sentinel's Aegis: Now also passively increases threat generation by 250%.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Can we get some paladin updates GC one in particular is why the nerf to Aura of courage and radiance sorry to hijack the GWF thread
Gang Busters PvP Guild Recruiting When Mod 6 goes live Pm Me for more Info If you have any Paladin question Message Me and i will get back to you ASAP
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
We are making some adjustments to GWF sustained throughput as well as remove some debuffs that were rather difficult to understand on the fly. Additionally the Swordmaster buffs will also affect Guardian Fighters. These buffs should help round out several powers that were underperforming and improve GWF damage overall, putting them in a more competitive place in longer fights.
Great Weapon Fighter
Unstoppable: No longer reduces the damage of At Will powers.
Reaping Strike: Damage no longer decreased for hitting multiple targets.
Reaping Strike: Damage increased by roughly 25%.
Reaping Strike: Determination gain while charging Reaping Strike is now increased by 25% base (up from 5%) and now gains 10% per rank (up from 5%).
Reaping Strike: Damage Resistance granted while charging Reaping Strike has been increased to 20% (up from 8%).
Sure Strike: Damage of the final strike increased by roughly 30%.
Wicked Strike: No longer does reduced damage when hitting multiple targets.
Wicked Strike: Damage of the final strike increased by roughly 15%.
Swordmaster: Weapon Master's Stirke: Damage increased by roughly 50%.
Swordmaster: Weapon Master's Stirke: Debuff now lasts 6 seconds by default and gains 2 seconds per rank (up from 3 and 1 respectively).
Swordmaster: Weapon Master's Stirke: No longer does reduced damage when hitting multiple targets.
Great Weapon Fighter: Feats: Intimidation: This feat now deals 25/50/75/100/125% of your weapon damage (instead of scaling on your power). This damage is amplified by power. Intimidated targets now take 100/200/300/400/500% more threat from you (up from 10/20/30/40/50%).
Great Weapon Fighter: Feats: Sentinel's Aegis: Now also passively increases threat generation by 250%.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Now this is more like it. This is getting on the right track. I like the sound of all of those.
Theres a few more things I would add, such as making Punishing Charge go a bit farther, or add an affect to it to grant it more utility such as a knockback without prone (like Sunbust, but not as high being knocked up. About half the knockback distance ).
Determination gain from Steadfast Determination increased.
Wicked's strike animation should be more easily stopped when using sprint. As it is now, its hard to stop out of Wicked Strike to evade anything, as the character will continue using the animation until its finished before bothering to sprint.
Unstoppable needs a slight increase in its default DR.
thats about it. I like everything else. Especially something FINALLY being done about Reaping Strike.
We are making some adjustments to GWF sustained throughput as well as remove some debuffs that were rather difficult to understand on the fly. Additionally the Swordmaster buffs will also affect Guardian Fighters. These buffs should help round out several powers that were underperforming and improve GWF damage overall, putting them in a more competitive place in longer fights.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
FEEDBACK ON CHANGES: Overall, Thanks for these changes however I am hoping that there is more you are working on. GWFs are NOT tanky enough at all.
TRs/CWs/HRs are ALL tankier than even the Sent GWF. In PVE it is less noticable because there is no piercing damage, there is no healing depression, the hardest content is not going to 1 shot you - like a TR in PVP.
We DESPERATELY need DEFENSIVE tools to survive. I posted details in the previous page and PMd you about this. PLEASE review it Crush.
All of these changes are a step in the right direction, I completely agree. However, you still haven't made many changes to help increase our survivability. Something needs to change that will allow sentinel specced GWFs to actually tank.
All of these changes are a step in the right direction, I completely agree. However, you still haven't made many changes to help increase our survivability. Something needs to change that will allow sentinel specced GWFs to actually tank.
Not JUST sentinel GWFs and not just for TANKING but look at PVP. Its a joke. GWFs are SO squishy and a LARGE part of the issue came when they nerfed determination gain. I detailed out what needs to be taken into consideration here:
"How is the power working now on preview? Explain what you were doing, in great detail." Both on live and on Preview the DR gain is too low. With the removal of in combat regen, GWFs feel VERY squishy. The Temp HP we gain and poor DR we gain feels like nothing at all.
This is even more apparent in PVP. I run into combat and literally will get 1 shot by a TR using shocking execute in stealth. I have over 40k HP and I get one shot. Even if I dont, a TR can lashing blade crit for 25-30k easily, and once I pop unstoppable I get a VERY small amount of Temp HP back and his Shadow of Demise will proc (multiple times with enchants like GPF) and bypass the DR boost I get IN unstoppable.
Even if they are not Exec TRs, MANY classes have piercing damage that bypass the DR we gain. 15% is hardly even noticeable for a class that has to FACE TANK damage with NO immunity frames from dodges. Overall even playing my Sentinel feels like I am playing a class wearing cloth or leather. Classes like TR, HR, CW who all SHOULD be less tanky than my Sentinel GWF are much MORE tanky.
"Why do you like or dislike this power? Explain why you feel this way in great detail." I dislike this power because it is such a crutch for the class. The class is very squishy both inside and outside unstoppable. The DR gain is minimal especially with more classes able to stack higher amounts of ARP. The worst thing about it was when it was changed to be a % of HP rather than total damage taken, but they did NOT account for the DR factor. In the past you could take 12-15k DAMAGE which would only be about 6-7k of your HP to get unstoppable. Now you must actually lose that 12-15k of your HP, which is a massive nerf to the class.
Even the duration is short, most classes have ranged ability or the ability to dodge the GWF, MOST of the time when fighting a class they will damage you down and CC you until you pop unstoppable. You THEN have to use sprint IN unstoppable to CATCH the class, because our CC was nerfed, however the second you get close to them, they dodge with immunity frames and it only takes about 2 dodges before you are back out of unstoppable. Then you are susceptible to CC and damage again because you had to spend sprint to CATCH the class in the first place.
"In what way do you feel it should be changed? Explain in great detail." Unstoppable needs a few changes.
1) The DR needs to be brought up a tad, even 20-40% would help.
2) The amount of HP you lose needs to DECREASE from where it is at right now. Currently its AROUND 20/25% for half a bar and 40/50% for a full 8 second bar. This needs to be brought DOWN to about <15% HP lost for HALF a bar and <30% HP lost for a FULL bar.
3) The Temp HP you gain from unstoppable should be reworked. I do not JUST like buffing the temp HP but rather copy the PnP mechanic over from "Battlerager Vigor" - Where you gain temporary hit points each time you are struck in combat. However this can be REWORKED to be you gain Temp HP each time you are struck IN UNSTOPPABLE. For this I would suggest around 4% based on determination. Meaning you pop unstoppable with half a bar, you will gain 4% Temp HP PER HIT you take during unstoppable with a 1 sec ICD. This would mean a FULL amount of TEMP HP at 4 seconds would be 16%. While an 8 second Unstoppable would be up to 32%. This is HALVED in PVP. The reason this would be so powerful is part of that temp HP carries over after unstoppable ends and assists you in earning your NEXT unstoppable.
4) *REMOVE* the fact that you cannot gain determination during unstoppable. While IN unstoppable if we take enough damage or as a destroyer - deal enough damage - we should be able to extend the duration of unstoppable. Think about it. We have increased DR so we wont earn THAT much and most classes dont attack us anyways, however if we are attacked during unstoppable we should be gaining that temp HP AND determination which extends unstoppable.
5) *REMOVE* the at will damage penalty during unstoppable. This never made sense and makes unstoppable frankly lack luster for damage purposes.
"Why do you feel it should be changed this way? Explain why you feel this would be better in great detail." I feel it should be changed in this way because GWFs are HEAVILY reliant on Unstoppable. GWFs have to face tank damage to earn their mechanic while other classes (like TR) can use encounters to insta fill their stealth meter. GFs is based on stamina meter and have abilities that regen stamina for blocking. Other classes like CW have a perma shield as well as near infinite dodges if you try and attack them. GWFs have no such thing, no "escape" mechanic, no "dodge" ability, no "immunity frames" and whats worse is we cant even unstoppable on command, we are reliant on OTHER classes/mobs attacking us to THEN grant us this ability. So Unstoppable is NOT something we can use on command or even at full HP, it requires us to lose HP to gain it. When we do, the DR is too small to notice, classes hit us with a ton of piercing damage that bypass all that DR, AND the amount of temp hp "buffer" we have is too small to help at all.... Then we are FORCED to use our only other defensive tool (sprint) for offensive purposes DURING unstoppable to even get TO the target.
I feel the changes above not only will assist in PVP play but also PVE play. The ability to extend unstoppable helps if we are REALLY under fire and taking heavy hits. The ability to generate temp hp when stuck helps this out as well - the more damage we take the tankier we end up getting. Ontop of that, the ability to use at wills without a damage reduction IN unstoppable would be great as well! Finally, the amount of HP we must lose AND the DR boost truly help when you actually DO pop unstoppable.
We are making some adjustments to GWF sustained throughput as well as remove some debuffs that were rather difficult to understand on the fly. Additionally the Swordmaster buffs will also affect Guardian Fighters. These buffs should help round out several powers that were underperforming and improve GWF damage overall, putting them in a more competitive place in longer fights.
Great Weapon Fighter
Unstoppable: No longer reduces the damage of At Will powers.
Reaping Strike: Damage no longer decreased for hitting multiple targets.
Reaping Strike: Damage increased by roughly 25%.
Reaping Strike: Determination gain while charging Reaping Strike is now increased by 25% base (up from 5%) and now gains 10% per rank (up from 5%).
Reaping Strike: Damage Resistance granted while charging Reaping Strike has been increased to 20% (up from 8%).
Sure Strike: Damage of the final strike increased by roughly 30%.
Wicked Strike: No longer does reduced damage when hitting multiple targets.
Wicked Strike: Damage of the final strike increased by roughly 15%.
Swordmaster: Weapon Master's Stirke: Damage increased by roughly 50%.
Swordmaster: Weapon Master's Stirke: Debuff now lasts 6 seconds by default and gains 2 seconds per rank (up from 3 and 1 respectively).
Swordmaster: Weapon Master's Stirke: No longer does reduced damage when hitting multiple targets.
Great Weapon Fighter: Feats: Intimidation: This feat now deals 25/50/75/100/125% of your weapon damage (instead of scaling on your power). This damage is amplified by power. Intimidated targets now take 100/200/300/400/500% more threat from you (up from 10/20/30/40/50%).
Great Weapon Fighter: Feats: Sentinel's Aegis: Now also passively increases threat generation by 250%.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
This is A.W.E.S.O.M.E. Thanks! Finally GWF will be able to generate threat properly! I wonder how does the "This damage is amplified by power." work for intimidation but I guess we'll see soon enough
Although, I agree with others. This is a great move forward but GWF still needs some fine tuning towards better survivability. So does GF. For example, tank Paladin has his shields and lots of ways to gain temporary points without drawbacks. Whereas GWF needs to lose hp in order to activate his main defensive mechanism and GF depends on guard and guard regeneration only. Regeneration and life steal was pretty much enough to keep one alive but we all know that's out of equation in mod 6.
And yes, being able to queue with sentinel GWF as a tank would be nice. Or at least without tank Paladin, we can live with the other sentinel GWFs and GFs. Whereas Paladins kinda make all the extra threat generation go to waste with their permament taunts.
Comments
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
General
Unstoppable needs more damage resistance
the encounter that throws daggers shouldnt have jump back
in PvE
damage should be fine, now we need reliable defense - life steal(or some other heal) and/or damage resistance, with stat changes base DR is really low - 18% at 3.2k def
in PvP
since we dont get any dodge immunities we need some defense that isnt ignored by the ****ton of ArP added in mod 6, both stat and enchants, imho unstoppable should provide more damage resistance and that damage resistance should ignore ArP and enchants, some single target damage/cc,
this seems to be a good idea, most classes now have more dodges so adding encounter with gap closer and a cc would be just whats needed this could be used in place of daring shout, daring shout could be merged with come and get it making it a good tanking option, this would solve possible problems with intimidation
or restoring could be merged with not so fast making it aoe heal + slow and the new encounter could take its place
or takedown could be improved with gap closer and a bit more damage, though restoring and not so fast needs a look, daring and come and get it could use a merge too
There are alot of blue posts in the thread, they get washed out in a SEA of blue though, thus many start to try and spruce up their posts with more colors so its not just a sea of BLUE.
First of all, I would change Grit to be a Temp hp % of around 5/10/15% added when you are healed by a power, with a cooldown of 25 seconds, This gives it viability to be used in pvp, and in pve instances.
15% in PVE = 7.5% PVP I would suggest this being improved even more to 10/15/20% and given a 30 sec ICD. Now this actually means something in both PVE and PVP.
Unstoppable Recovery : (Tier 1 Sentinel feat) - Change this to a heal that heals you for .5/1/1.5/2/2.5% Max hp per second during unstoppable . So at 8 seconds unstoppable (max possible) , thats a 20% max hp heal. Its spread out over a long time, if too strong add an CD of 45 seconds.
I REALLY like this idea, however fear that the entire class MUST now get this feat to be viable. I never like a feat being required, but I guess its an easy change to help alleviate some of the issues.
Again, in PVP at MAX its a 10% HoT. This seems VERY underwhelming given the fact it takes nearly 40-50% of your HP to earn a max unstoppable. Id honestly RATHER have this give us an EXTRA say "5% Temp HP per second". This would be 40% Temp HP max (replacing what was lost) HOWEVER temp HP fades over time thus the 5% Temp HP (2.5% in PVP) you got at second "1" would have already "faded by the time you got out of unstoppable.
This ALSO helps the class in PVP because now coming out of unstoppable we would have some "trail Temp HP" that can help us towards the next Unstoppable. It would remove the "base healing" which still makes us NEED a healer, however it does give us tools to survive.
Unfettering strikes could be reworked into a "counter" skill, that when you deflect from melee has a chance to proc dealing damage back (with an ICD of course) , But this sounds a lot like a GF power more than a GWF one.
I think we need the movement speed TBH. The only change to this would be increasing the movement speed bonus to 6 seconds instead of 4. This allows for mobility. The OTHER option would be to make this like a CW feat where you gain back stamina when crit. This also would allow for more stamina (which is a big weakness of ours).
Iron Vanguard : Inexorable Shift (Throw yourself at an enemy, and knock them back/down) This could be a targeted encounter so we finally have a targetted stun / prone outside of savage advance Information from here
LOVE this idea. Basically an "encounter" version of Savage Advance. JUST like all the other moves such as the "Fissure" move copies the GF daily. This Inexorable Shift could COPY Savage Advanace but as an Encounter. LOVE IT!
Swordmaster : Steel Blitz works quite different in D&D, whenever you crit, you have the ability to use another encounter you recently used. As this would be broken, maybe change it so it reduces existing cooldowns and 25% when you crit (with a ICD of 10-15 seconds) (information gotten from here)
This could be JUST the change SwordMasters need. I LOVE this. This would make Steel Blitz + Weapon Master a VERY deadly combo however in PVE you would lose "Destroyer" stacks which also are a big damage boost.
Maybe for each rank it would be: Whenever you crit, reduce your cooldowns by 50% (remember 100% CD reduction means it was cut in HALF) So this would be 4 crits for an instant CD reset. This would make SM VERY strong.
Then you have other suggestions that are AWESOME such as:
Restoring Strike: Turn this attack "sideways" and make it an AoE! Self HEALING!!!
Come and Get it, Combine this with Daring Shout: Pulls enemies in, debuffs them (mark) AND boosts damage for a short time (plus intimidation) which makes this a good PVE ability.
That would open the "room" for that new ability "Inexorable Shift".
ALL of this would put the GWF back into competitive area. The two most notable for PVP would be "Unstoppable Recovery" granting 5% Temp HP per each second in unstoppable along with the gap closer "Inexorable Shift". This would allow GWFs to use sprint more defensively.
For PVE the CAGI+DS combo along with Steel Blitz would be pretty dangerous! I could see Steel Blitz being very strong for DPS in all classes but not as good for tanking because of Mark on Threat Rush.
All of this would be amazing to see implemented.
I REALLY REALLY want this now. Like. So .. sooo badly. I will be so upset when/if it doesnt happen at least partially.
On a related note, do we have a class advocate yet? because if we wont have one all this is potentially going to waste.
Also for
My idea was a 25% reduction of existing cooldowns, But I forgot that 100% is half not 50%. I added an ICD also as 4 crits is VERY easy to get. Maybe a Tweak would be 50% of the current cooldown (so 20 sec goes to 15 sec, if the same cooldown was at 12 secs it would become 8 seconds) With an 5/4/3/2 (scales with level) second cooldown on Proccing Steel blitz?? or do you think it has to be the TOTAL cooldown to be worth it. even if it was a 2 second cooldown and total cooldowns, it means the shortest cooldown you'd have is 8 seconds, but due to the large number of possible crits I feel this would be too overpowered and that reducing the remaining cooldown instead is more balanced.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
This would be about 3x the width of the current effect and make it MUCH more frontal damage focused.
Once it's 4th tier, Weapon Master stops working for me completely. Til then it's fine.
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
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Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
One thing I'm concerned with is the difficulty with health sustain when in HE's & Dungeons (not normal adventuring). I already feat Unstoppable Recovery and a large amount of Life Steal (with 2 boons from ToD, Endless Consumption, and a Perfect Lifedrinker for testing). I'm managing, but I'd hate so see what people with less gear/boons are going to face.
"How is the power working now on preview? Explain what you were doing, in great detail."
Both on live and on Preview the DR gain is too low. With the removal of in combat regen, GWFs feel VERY squishy. The Temp HP we gain and poor DR we gain feels like nothing at all.
This is even more apparent in PVP. I run into combat and literally will get 1 shot by a TR using shocking execute in stealth. I have over 40k HP and I get one shot. Even if I dont, a TR can lashing blade crit for 25-30k easily, and once I pop unstoppable I get a VERY small amount of Temp HP back and his Shadow of Demise will proc (multiple times with enchants like GPF) and bypass the DR boost I get IN unstoppable.
Even if they are not Exec TRs, MANY classes have piercing damage that bypass the DR we gain. 15% is hardly even noticeable for a class that has to FACE TANK damage with NO immunity frames from dodges. Overall even playing my Sentinel feels like I am playing a class wearing cloth or leather. Classes like TR, HR, CW who all SHOULD be less tanky than my Sentinel GWF are much MORE tanky.
"Why do you like or dislike this power? Explain why you feel this way in great detail."
I dislike this power because it is such a crutch for the class. The class is very squishy both inside and outside unstoppable. The DR gain is minimal especially with more classes able to stack higher amounts of ARP. The worst thing about it was when it was changed to be a % of HP rather than total damage taken, but they did NOT account for the DR factor. In the past you could take 12-15k DAMAGE which would only be about 6-7k of your HP to get unstoppable. Now you must actually lose that 12-15k of your HP, which is a massive nerf to the class.
Even the duration is short, most classes have ranged ability or the ability to dodge the GWF, MOST of the time when fighting a class they will damage you down and CC you until you pop unstoppable. You THEN have to use sprint IN unstoppable to CATCH the class, because our CC was nerfed, however the second you get close to them, they dodge with immunity frames and it only takes about 2 dodges before you are back out of unstoppable. Then you are susceptible to CC and damage again because you had to spend sprint to CATCH the class in the first place.
"In what way do you feel it should be changed? Explain in great detail."
Unstoppable needs a few changes.
1) The DR needs to be brought up a tad, even 20-40% would help.
2) The amount of HP you lose needs to DECREASE from where it is at right now. Currently its AROUND 20/25% for half a bar and 40/50% for a full 8 second bar. This needs to be brought DOWN to about <15% HP lost for HALF a bar and <30% HP lost for a FULL bar.
3) The Temp HP you gain from unstoppable should be reworked. I do not JUST like buffing the temp HP but rather copy the PnP mechanic over from "Battlerager Vigor" - Where you gain temporary hit points each time you are struck in combat. However this can be REWORKED to be you gain Temp HP each time you are struck IN UNSTOPPABLE. For this I would suggest around 4% based on determination. Meaning you pop unstoppable with half a bar, you will gain 4% Temp HP PER HIT you take during unstoppable with a 1 sec ICD. This would mean a FULL amount of TEMP HP at 4 seconds would be 16%. While an 8 second Unstoppable would be up to 32%. This is HALVED in PVP. The reason this would be so powerful is part of that temp HP NEEDs to carry over after unstoppable ends and assists you in earning your NEXT unstoppable.
4) *REMOVE* the fact that you cannot gain determination during unstoppable. While IN unstoppable if we take enough damage or as a destroyer - deal enough damage - we should be able to extend the duration of unstoppable. Think about it. We have increased DR so we wont earn THAT much and most classes dont attack us anyways, however if we are attacked during unstoppable we should be gaining that temp HP AND determination which extends unstoppable.
5) *REMOVE* the at will damage penalty during unstoppable. This never made sense and makes unstoppable frankly lack luster for damage purposes.
"Why do you feel it should be changed this way? Explain why you feel this would be better in great detail."
I feel it should be changed in this way because GWFs are HEAVILY reliant on Unstoppable. GWFs have to face tank damage to earn their mechanic while other classes (like TR) can use encounters to insta fill their stealth meter. GFs is based on stamina meter and have abilities that regen stamina for blocking. Other classes like CW have a perma shield as well as near infinite dodges if you try and attack them. GWFs have no such thing, no "escape" mechanic, no "dodge" ability, no "immunity frames" and whats worse is we cant even unstoppable on command, we are reliant on OTHER classes/mobs attacking us to THEN grant us this ability. So Unstoppable is NOT something we can use on command or even at full HP, it requires us to lose HP to gain it. When we do, the DR is too small to notice, classes hit us with a ton of piercing damage that bypass all that DR, AND the amount of temp hp "buffer" we have is too small to help at all.... Then we are FORCED to use our only other defensive tool (sprint) for offensive purposes DURING unstoppable to even get TO the target.
I feel the changes above not only will assist in PVP play but also PVE play. The ability to extend unstoppable helps if we are REALLY under fire and taking heavy hits. The ability to generate temp hp when stuck helps this out as well - the more damage we take the tankier we end up getting. Ontop of that, the ability to use at wills without a damage reduction IN unstoppable would be great as well! Finally, the amount of HP we must lose AND the DR boost truly help when you actually DO pop unstoppable.
"How is the power working now on preview? Explain what you were doing, in great detail."
Currently the fact that we can get 4 stacks now up from 3 is GREAT! With the nerf to all stats this allows for a GWF to reach a decent amount of crit, which can potentially enable them to compete with other classes like TR (100% stealth crit) and CW (eots 100% crit). This issue is that BOTH of these stacks are VERY poorly implemented with stack duration.
I have been testing alot of builds on the PTR, as well as this is the same mechanic from LIVE, and the stacks just fall off FAR too fast. Weapon Master is not as bad since its 100% chance to gain a stack on hitting, however in PVE if you cannot sprint or are out of threat rush charges, sometimes you can have these stacks fall off.
This too is even worse when it comes to PVP. Its nearly impossible to get full stacks of weapon master and keep them up, same with Destroyer, you are lucky to get 1 let alone two stacks of this feat. It is far too hard to sustain and considering ALOT of our damage comes from these abilities, its very frustrating to get kited around, unable to attack or even proned unable to attack and lose stacks.
It also makes daily powers like "Avalanche of Steel" worthless since you lose all the stacks in the animation it takes you to jump up and back down. In PVE, by the time you DO get 1 or 2 stacks the mobs are already dead, and in dungeons this is the same as well. You finally get "up to speed" with stacking and the fight is over, or you are running over to another mob only to lose your stacks. NO other class is THIS reliant on stacks that only last such a short duration.
"Why do you like or dislike this power? Explain why you feel this way in great detail."
I like these powers because they give us much needed boosts. Weapon Master gives crit and Destroyer gives damage. I VERY much dislike how fast the stacks fall off. It hurts the class very much since the "variance" in damage can be so great. A Destroyer with full Destroyer stacks and Weapon Master Stacks can be VERY beastly however there is such FEW small scenarios or opportunities to even get INTO this position.
What I fear the most is this translation over to the console version is going to be even more apparent since its hard to get these stacks on a PC! Think of how hard it will be on an Xbox!
"In what way do you feel it should be changed? Explain in great detail."
The IDEAL to me would actually be to have the stacks last for as long as you are in combat. If you leave combat you start getting regen back, as long as you are in combat if you build a stack you should retain that stack until you leave. This makes gaining the stacks just as hard to get, however much easier to retain if you are TRYING To stay in combat. If you are trying to avoid combat, then its fair to lose them.
Either that or even given something like an 8 second duration could work as well. Something that makes it easier to gain stacks and keep them. For the most part I like the in combat out of combat idea as this is more common sense IMO. If your in combat fighting, you dont get regen, and you take time to build up your damage. The second you leave combat stacks fall off and you lose "momentum" this makes you have inecntive to chain "encounter (meaning combat encounters) rather than wait for regen however must balance that with your HP as well. Given Regen in combat is gone, I think this presents a fair tradeoff between damage and survival.
"Why do you feel it should be changed this way? Explain why you feel this would be better in great detail."
I feel it needs to be changed because GWFs have alot of very key hard choices with features. Run Speed is something we VERY much need so Bravery ends up being a default for many. The features just seem rather lackluster from what they could be. This is less apparent in PVE with more "uptime" but VERY apparent in PVP with how many times a GWF can be "kited" around unable to attack. Part of this has to do with other mechanics like sprint versus their dodges as well, but it makes these "stacking" feats un reliable and while they WOULD be great options they are just too lack luster to play with. Especially Destroyer because of the low chance to gain a stack and the VERY small window it is actually up. Also now that in combat regen is gone, GWFs will need to rely more on lifesteal and stacking lifesteal, however if their damage is unreliable because of the short duration of these stacks, its makes the class FAR too unstable.
I have been testing our stamina gain on PTR and LIVE. My GWF has 24 STR (14% Stam Gain) and another 5% in stamina recharge stat for a total of 19% Stamina Recharge. Spending my FULL sprint meter it takes me 18 seconds to regen it back to full.
I hop over to my TR who has 18 STR(8% Stam regen) along with 2 points in a feat for a total of 12% more Stamina Regen (6% LESS than my GWF) however I spend my entire meter (dodge 4 times doesnt do it, so I wait and roll AGAIN to FULLY spend the whole meter) and he can recharge his entire stamina bar in just 16 seconds
If all things were EQUAL, My stamina recharge at 12% should be 16 seconds, Adding another 7% recharge should make me FULLY regen in about 14.5seconds. Thus Our STAMINA gain needs to be increased ABOUT 25%.
OVERALL: Our BASE stamina Regen Rate needs to be increased!!!
"How is the power working now on preview? Explain what you were doing, in great detail."
Currently the capstone is providing a significant amount of damage, however the class does not gain anything special over the Destroyer Capstone which has more perks than just damage. Destroyer Capstone damage boost lasts for 25 seconds (admittedly takes more to GET stacks) however it ALSO enables you to earn determination based on damage dealt.
I have been testing some INSTA builds on the PTR to try and make a GWF focused on Sprint/Run Speed but everything I try is just so LackLuster. You are MUCH worse off that Destroyer because not only do you have no way to generate Determination (like Destroyer) you dont have increased DR in unstoppable (like Sent). So its seems there is some room for improvement for this spec.
"Why do you like or dislike this power? Explain why you feel this way in great detail."
Everything in this tree is just so lakc-luster with the exception of Student of the Sword as well as Viscous Advantage. Things like "Fleet Footed" only giving a 3 second run speed AFTER controlling a target? You ALREADY have to be ontop of the target to control them, so it seems the buff is un needed when its granted.
Things like "Group Assault" for being a T4(T5 on PTR) feat, only giving 10% more damage seems VERY poor. Or even the Capstone not giving anything but damage bonus, where the other tree capstones give both utility and either damage or DR.
I run into a group of mobs in PVE, I get hit 2-3 times which gives me some damage bonus, I use some encounters, they just dont hit THAT hard and once I kill I try to move to the next group but my capstone stacks have fallen off. Contrast to my Destroyer who can easily keep his Destroyer Stacks up between mobs. I get the "tradeoff" however considering the lack of utility and damage feats this tree has... It leaves alot to be desired.
"In what way do you feel it should be changed? Explain in great detail."
I have a few Ideas I will detail out here:
Tier 1: Fleet Footed:
Option 1) Whenever CONTROLLED BY a target, increase your run speed by 3/6/9/12/15% for 6 seconds. This will nto be as useful in PVE however if you are ever controlled or affected by control you usually want more run speed afterwards. When you control someone else, you generally do not need more run speed because they are controlled.
Option 2) When you sprint, you gain 15% more run speed. This one basically just makes Sprint faster. Would be very useful for alot of builds.
Tier 3(LIVE) / 4 (PTR): Allied Opportunity: Mighty Leap and Not so Fast need to be given a MUCH higher damage boost combined with a much lower CD. This should MIMIC Relentless Battle Fury. Cooldowns Reduced 50%. Damage increased 30%. Not So Fasts slow debuff lasts 25% longer.
Tier 3(LIVE) / 4 (PTR): Nimble Runner: 10% more deflect is very poor bonus considering you can get 5% up 100% of the time from a Tier 1 feat in Sentinel. This should ALSO either increase your stamina recharge or decrease the amount of stamina drain while sprinting.
Tier 4(LIVE) / 5 (PTR): Group Assault: This should be an AoE damage increase by 40% (Greater than the PTR new Tier 3 feat for Destroyers of 30% more AOE damage)
Tier 5 (LIVE) / 6 PTR: Capstone: Instigators Vengeance: Increase the duration of each stack to 8 seconds (up from 6) ALSO:
Option 1) Also, this feat should Gain determination by spending stamina. This gives the Instagator an ability to generate determination on their own given they cannot do it by DEALING damage like Destroyer and their Unstoppable is not as tanky as the Sentinels.
Option 2) INSTEAD of giving determination from sprinting (like the TR) Give stamina gain based upon being struck (like the CW). This way, Instagators have much more sprint-ability when being attacked and also gain damage stacks when being attacked. This allows them to be the most mobile of the GWF classes which makes them a little tankier than the Destroyer with less damage, but not as tanky as the Sentinel but they have more damage.... Its a fair middle ground.
"Why do you feel it should be changed this way? Explain why you feel this would be better in great detail."
I feel these changes are due since Instagators have never been good at all. They have no utility function like Destroyers in gaining determination. They are not as tanky as a Sentinel, their stack/damage gain is clunky and falls off too fast between being stuck (not to mention if you control a target you risk stacks falling off) Giving them the above changes not only boosts their AoE DPS, it makes their stacks much more reliable, it gives them utility with either having MORE sprint or gaining determination faster. This would put Instagator in a sweet spot as far as tradeoffs and now you have three somewhat viable paths.
GWFs still retain problems overall, so I would still strongly suggest the Unstoppable Rework as detailed above as well. These changes however would make the Instagator a much more "frontline" GWF, more tanky than a destroyer but not as much damage. More damage than a Sent but not as tanky. The perfect sweet spot.
Go on bro, keep up with the great stuffs!
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
SENTINEL FEATS :
SCALE AGILITY ---> You gain 10% chance to deflect attacks (up to 5%).
POWERFUL CHALLENGE ---> You deal an additional 30% damage to Marked Targets ( up to 15%).
INTIMIDATION ---> Daring Shout and Come and Get It now do 350% of your weapon damage as physical damage.
MASTER AT ARMS ---> Weapon Master now also grants 10% deflect chance (up to 2%) .
SENTINEL'S AEGIS ---> Increase effectiveness of your DEFENSE STAT. by 60% (up to 20%) . Unstoppable now Grants 60-100% Damage Resistance
Scale Agility: Being a T1 feat I think this is actually OK.
Powerful Challenge: Please no more damage boosts from Mark. I actually think this should be removed and Powerful Challenge now instead gives 50% more THREAT to marked targets. But rather than JUST a nerf, GWFs should be given BACK that damage with Strength. STR should give 2% Damage boost and 2% Stamina Recharge (up from 1%/1%)
Intimidation: 350% Weapon damage - COMPLETELY agree. I would even Love to see this turned into a DoT like DCs Fire of the Gods deal... 100% Weapon damage every second for 15 seconds.. This also removes the "burst" from this ability but gives it a nice DPS boost for tanking.
Master at Arms: This grants 2% PER STACK. You can currently get 10% deflect from this (I think its bugged) I dont think this needs a buff IMO. As mentioned before (in previous thread) having these stacks up for Combat duration would make it more powerful already.
SENTINEL'S AEGIS: You basically already have 100% DR since most Sents have about 55%+ DR out of unstoppable. Unstop adds 30%+ DR Putting you over the cap of 80%.
What should happen to Sent Aegis is you build 20% more determination from TAKING damage as well as the Defense stat is increased 20%. This would give faster access to unstoppable.
I'd rather it worked the other way around or something and gave you more defence based power. But that could cause an endless loop with the heroic feat unless it was coded not to include the power given by feats. (perhaps 25% of power given by items goes to defence, or increases your max hp by x% of your defence)
At the same time though. titans set is a level 60 set, i'd rather save awesome 4 set bonuses for the new sets that are coming.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
Issue is that Titan set doesnt have much power... The defense it gives would be meaningless.
I like this as an idea. Grants you power = to a % of defense.
Although I dont know if 25% is good enough for a 4 pc TBH. Even if you have 10k Defense thats only 2500 Power which with the new curve is like 6% dmg which is pretty small TBH.
If you REALLY want to make it useful then it would grant something like 10% of your defence as BOTH armor pen AND power.
Now at 10k Defense you would get 1k ARP and 1k POWER which would be only 2.5% dmg boost but would give like 10% ARP.
Great Weapon Fighter
Unstoppable: No longer reduces the damage of At Will powers.
Reaping Strike: Damage no longer decreased for hitting multiple targets.
Reaping Strike: Damage increased by roughly 25%.
Reaping Strike: Determination gain while charging Reaping Strike is now increased by 25% base (up from 5%) and now gains 10% per rank (up from 5%).
Reaping Strike: Damage Resistance granted while charging Reaping Strike has been increased to 20% (up from 8%).
Sure Strike: Damage of the final strike increased by roughly 30%.
Wicked Strike: No longer does reduced damage when hitting multiple targets.
Wicked Strike: Damage of the final strike increased by roughly 15%.
Swordmaster: Weapon Master's Stirke: Damage increased by roughly 50%.
Swordmaster: Weapon Master's Stirke: Debuff now lasts 6 seconds by default and gains 2 seconds per rank (up from 3 and 1 respectively).
Swordmaster: Weapon Master's Stirke: No longer does reduced damage when hitting multiple targets.
Great Weapon Fighter: Feats: Intimidation: This feat now deals 25/50/75/100/125% of your weapon damage (instead of scaling on your power). This damage is amplified by power. Intimidated targets now take 100/200/300/400/500% more threat from you (up from 10/20/30/40/50%).
Great Weapon Fighter: Feats: Sentinel's Aegis: Now also passively increases threat generation by 250%.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Awesome! Great too see you here in the thread and the WMS Buff makes it very powerful. There has been some really awesome suggestions regarding our survivability and Stamina gain in the last few pages that are interesting and in line with 4e also so I'm keen to see any further changes that may be made before release.
I see your point there with the low power from the set, I just thought that a more powerful copy of one of our Heroic feats as a set bonus was boring. haha. I'd like too see a Set bonus that reduces our stamina use by x% and increases stamina regen in combat or something though, that could be cool.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
Can we get some paladin updates GC one in particular is why the nerf to Aura of courage and radiance sorry to hijack the GWF thread
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Now this is more like it. This is getting on the right track. I like the sound of all of those.
Theres a few more things I would add, such as making Punishing Charge go a bit farther, or add an affect to it to grant it more utility such as a knockback without prone (like Sunbust, but not as high being knocked up. About half the knockback distance ).
Determination gain from Steadfast Determination increased.
Wicked's strike animation should be more easily stopped when using sprint. As it is now, its hard to stop out of Wicked Strike to evade anything, as the character will continue using the animation until its finished before bothering to sprint.
Unstoppable needs a slight increase in its default DR.
thats about it. I like everything else. Especially something FINALLY being done about Reaping Strike.
FEEDBACK ON CHANGES:
Overall, Thanks for these changes however I am hoping that there is more you are working on. GWFs are NOT tanky enough at all.
TRs/CWs/HRs are ALL tankier than even the Sent GWF. In PVE it is less noticable because there is no piercing damage, there is no healing depression, the hardest content is not going to 1 shot you - like a TR in PVP.
We DESPERATELY need DEFENSIVE tools to survive. I posted details in the previous page and PMd you about this. PLEASE review it Crush.
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Not JUST sentinel GWFs and not just for TANKING but look at PVP. Its a joke. GWFs are SO squishy and a LARGE part of the issue came when they nerfed determination gain. I detailed out what needs to be taken into consideration here:
This is A.W.E.S.O.M.E. Thanks! Finally GWF will be able to generate threat properly! I wonder how does the "This damage is amplified by power." work for intimidation but I guess we'll see soon enough
Although, I agree with others. This is a great move forward but GWF still needs some fine tuning towards better survivability. So does GF. For example, tank Paladin has his shields and lots of ways to gain temporary points without drawbacks. Whereas GWF needs to lose hp in order to activate his main defensive mechanism and GF depends on guard and guard regeneration only. Regeneration and life steal was pretty much enough to keep one alive but we all know that's out of equation in mod 6.
And yes, being able to queue with sentinel GWF as a tank would be nice. Or at least without tank Paladin, we can live with the other sentinel GWFs and GFs. Whereas Paladins kinda make all the extra threat generation go to waste with their permament taunts.