We are making one more change to Great Weapon Fighters with regards to their survival tools, but it will not make it into this week's build.
Great Weapon Fighter: Unstoppable: The temporary Hit Points granted by unstoppable now scale with your damage bonuses and will persist after unstoppable ends.
In general this is a direct buff to how much Temp HP you will generate when you go unstoppable and should let Great Weapon Fighters maintain better uptime on targets in PVE while being less squishy in PVP.
Thank you for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
You are partially correct. There is another word for 'deflection', which is 'parrying'. However, a TR i.e. uses a parrying dagger, in order to deflect attacks, he does not dodge them, so it has nothing to do with nimbleness. Following this conclusion, a GF should imo have the highest deflect rate of all classes, because they have the biggest tool for deflecting/parrying, aka. 'a shield'.
---
Giving GWF more deflection does not make much sense, because they have no shield or parrying blade/dagger.
Yup, this is why it would make SENSE to give GFs more deflect with block, So rather than block mitigating 80% of damage incoming, it SHOULD be it grants the GF 100% deflect chance (since thats what it really does right?) along with an increase of like 30% deflection severity.
This would do roughly the same thing that 80% DR and the ability to deflect after the DR would give, but it would be more "RP appropriate" but considering its the same end just different "coding" I dont see much issue with leaving it.
We are making one more change to Great Weapon Fighters with regards to their survival tools, but it will not make it into this week's build.
Great Weapon Fighter: Unstoppable: The temporary Hit Points granted by unstoppable now scale with your damage bonuses and will persist after unstoppable ends.
In general this is a direct buff to how much Temp HP you will generate when you go unstoppable and should let Great Weapon Fighters maintain better uptime on targets in PVE while being less squishy in PVP.
Thank you for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Thanks Crush! This is more like it! I will have to test and see how this impacts GWFs, maybe you could add clarity to what this means "damage bonuses"?
So If I have full 10 destroyer stacks up for a damage bonus of 50% what does this mean?
Also, I am a little worried about the healing depression impact to Temp HP. With HD its a pretty big difference between PVE and PVP. IN PVE it could be too OP where as PVP it could not be enough.
I honestly dont see any feats that would be considered OP if you removed healing depression's impact on Temp HP - but kept it with everything else. Is that possible?
This would help all those small 2/3/4% Temp HP feats that fighters have that became useless with HD that could be useful again.
There are no classes that really generate tons of temp HP - I think Temp HP should not have been included in the Healing Depression nerf. Removing HD from Temp HP would make both fighters and now the Pally much more useful with those feats/features.
We are making one more change to Great Weapon Fighters with regards to their survival tools, but it will not make it into this week's build.
Great Weapon Fighter: Unstoppable: The temporary Hit Points granted by unstoppable now scale with your damage bonuses and will persist after unstoppable ends.
In general this is a direct buff to how much Temp HP you will generate when you go unstoppable and should let Great Weapon Fighters maintain better uptime on targets in PVE while being less squishy in PVP.
Thank you for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Won't that make destroyer much tankier than sentinel? I don't think damage bonus should scale Unstoppable. Afterall, destroyer can get 100%+ higher damage bonus than sentinel.
Won't that make destroyer much tankier than sentinel? I don't think damage bonus should scale Unstoppable. Afterall, destroyer can get 100%+ higher dqmage bonus than sentinel.
Yeah Im not 100% sold on this either. I like the fact temp HP lasts now after it ends - which will help alot. However I dont know if temp HP scaled off dmg boosts is what is best. Because Destroyers actually wont get their damage boosted until after they pop unstoppable once already.
By the time they get stacks TO pop unstoppable a second time, they will be <25% HP or dead.
Also even if you get a +50% dmg boost, whats it going to do give us 8-16% * 150%? This is still only 12-24% but cut in HALF for healing depression.
So it would be a NET 6-12% in PVP. That is hardly much gain at all, this is why I think Temp HP first needs to be removed from the impact of Healing Depression - THEN you can beef up the temp HP gain.
I reserve final judgement for testing because now things like STR could potentially give us more temp HP, same with Power etc.... But we will see exactly what does and doesnt count towards this "boost".... Im pretty skeptical because as I said above,
Even if we get +100% dmg boost that puts us back at NORMAL Temp HP levels - with Healing Depression. This will not be enough to make the class viable.
well in other words we dont know for certain what we will have in mod6, and we cannot know if this is a good change..
but he took in consideration our "complains" and buffed temp hp, how it will work by scaling out of damage bonus? i dont know.
like i dont know what will be the max of weapon damage at a rank 80 legendary artifact.
well i do rather have an reliable self healing than more temp hp.
also they could remove piercing damage already.
NO, piercing damage is ok for some to use, but it should grant like armor pen, and not ignore tenacity, steely defense or other types of abilities of that such.
and selfhealing, try restoring strike with a tier 4 and on sentinel paragon.
NO, piercing damage is ok for some to use, but it should grant like armor pen, and not ignore tenacity, steely defense or other types of abilities of that such.
and selfhealing, try restoring strike with a tier 4 and on sentinel paragon.
This exactly. Piercing damage should attack with 100% ARP. The whole concept of "it was already affected by that on the initial attack" just doesnt work. It sounds great in theory but SO many classes have specific mechanics that are not JUST "DR" but are re-active.
A perfect example is a TR using Lashing Blade on a GWF, who then pops unstoppable. 6 seconds later while he is STILL in Unstoppable, SoD procs and kills him. So while the initial hit WAS affected by DR, it wasnt affected by the SAME DR at the time the SoD struck.
Also this type of mechanic requires VERY delicate fine tuning that clearly was not scaled correctly.
Also,
FEEDBACK:
PLEASE consider Removing healing Depression on Temp HP!
We are making one more change to Great Weapon Fighters with regards to their survival tools, but it will not make it into this week's build.
Great Weapon Fighter: Unstoppable: The temporary Hit Points granted by unstoppable now scale with your damage bonuses and will persist after unstoppable ends.
In general this is a direct buff to how much Temp HP you will generate when you go unstoppable and should let Great Weapon Fighters maintain better uptime on targets in PVE while being less squishy in PVP.
Thank you for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
hmmm... damage bonus is my power bonus? well, dont solve much. but you dont need solve all the problems of a class by a single ability, so is conservative buff. nice to see
if is all types of bonus, include external, you will create a unecessary imbalance between sentinels and destroyers. not like "My god, destroyers is a super tank now", but is a inconvenient privilege to be used for troll players in the future. you know how this things work.
yes, but it is a primary change that can result in a nice buff.
for example, you create some feat or class feature that becomes a "counter" based how much temporary hp you have lost in a single shot and this temp hp is scaled by damage bonus.
try one shot one destroyer will be a suicide and if the general damage still great...
"who is this pokemon?"
ps: but yes, is a gf plagiarism i guess
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zekethesinnerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 805Arc User
edited February 2015
Feedback:
Please give us 1 more source of mark or mark-like buff for one of our dpsing encounter/feats. personaly favorite: Weapon Master buff: beside previous functinality, now when criticaly hiting ur enemie, u r apply 1s mark on him, +1s each rank
yes, but it is a primary change that can result in a nice buff.
for example, you create some feat or class feature that becomes a "counter" based how much temporary hp you have lost in a single shot and this temp hp is scaled by damage bonus.
try one shot one destroyer will be a suicide and if the general damage still great...
"who is this pokemon?"
ps: but yes, is a gf plagiarism i guess
Zacazu... I am just letting you know, however you are translating it is not working very well. It is very hard to tell what you are talking about...
Overall I think I agree with you that its a STEP in the right direction. This coupled with the damage reduction during unstoppable being removed will help alot. Overall though I am VERY leery this will not do what we need it to...
And clonkyo1, even having damage immunity during unstoppable wouldnt fix the class, most classes in PVP just dodge us anyways and will just wait out the damage immunity. We dont need flat out more DR we need a way to bolster our HP reserves either with actual healing or things like Temp HP...
gwf got 50k of temporary hp. then lost this 50k (or 100%) by a single shot. tr take back this temporary hp (or % lost) + damage bonus in form of damage.
consequence? trs will need change the strategy against gwfs, so, gwfs will have a chance to one shoot first (using some slow encounter like ibs or grand fissure).
This exactly. Piercing damage should attack with 100% ARP. The whole concept of "it was already affected by that on the initial attack" just doesnt work. It sounds great in theory but SO many classes have specific mechanics that are not JUST "DR" but are re-active.
A perfect example is a TR using Lashing Blade on a GWF, who then pops unstoppable. 6 seconds later while he is STILL in Unstoppable, SoD procs and kills him. So while the initial hit WAS affected by DR, it wasnt affected by the SAME DR at the time the SoD struck.
Also this type of mechanic requires VERY delicate fine tuning that clearly was not scaled correctly.
Also,
FEEDBACK:
PLEASE consider Removing healing Depression on Temp HP!
I agree with this, and the whole idea of piercing damage is fine in concept but I hate how its implemented. Its implemented on an automatic basis. If something is going to do piercing damage there needs to be some actual manual control over what and how one uses it. All this proc base damage period is just silly. Dont even need to think, just the the automatic procs do the damage for you. Its silly for TR's CWs and some degrees SW. I can easily see powers that should have piercing damage built into them. But I dont want to derail the subject on that.
There are no classes that really generate tons of temp HP - I think Temp HP should not have been included in the Healing Depression nerf. Removing HD from Temp HP would make both fighters and now the Pally much more useful with those feats/features.
It also helps GWFs dramatically.
A guild mate said his Paladin built up 65k Temp HP during combat in pve. no idea what the rotation was or if you could pull that off in pvp, but there might be an issue here
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
A guild mate said his Paladin built up 65k Temp HP during combat in pve. no idea what the rotation was or if you could pull that off in pvp, but there might be an issue here
Paladin needs a complete rework of some of their powers that grant temp Hp. For example, they have a daily that gives them 100% their max hp as temp hp. That's sick even with healing depression.
Paladin needs a complete rework of some of their powers that grant temp Hp. For example, they have a daily that gives them 100% their max hp as temp hp. That's sick even with healing depression.
Yeah exactly.... That should be bumped to like 30% HP - and then remove HD.
I mean HD creates ALOT of balance issues with PVE and PVP.
Either something like Temp HP will be overpowered in PVE but balanced in PVP or it will be completely Balanced in PVE but suck in PVP.
Right now GWF Temp HP falls under the latter, its "fair" in PVE but just sucks so hard in PVP....
I get healing/regen/lifesteal being nerfed (semi) but I dont get Temp HP... Thats one that seems like either way you slice it, needs to not be affected by HD.
Does almost twice as low damage as one charge of Hidden Daggers and almost as much as Not So Fast (a power you unlock at lvl 2 or 3). It appears Intimidation was overnerfed.
Please note that Sentinel already deals 50%-100%+ lower damage than Instigator/Destroyer. While it's a tank build let's not forget that while GF and Paladin bring utility to the party (and now damage with their 50% weapon damage increase) GWF only brings damage. It's ok if the damage is much lower than dps spec but making his main tool do much lower damage than an encounter with 3 charges and 12s cooldown (with my recovery Daring Shout has 15s cooldown and Come and Get It 13s) is pretty much thoughtless. Hidden Daggers damage can be further increased by Mighty Blade feat as it counts as AoE, unlike Intimidation.
To better illustrate this, here's some actual data from Preview. No buffs/debuffs used:
This needs to be changed to match that of a shielding GF/Paladin. Additionally, could use a faster startup animation. Currently, it takes 1s+ to start charging. And if you plan to make this a tanking tool you got to make this more responsive than that. CC resist when charging wouldn't hurt either.
the atwills changes is great. sure strike is a big single target resourse now. ibs starting to become a outdated encounter. need 2 or three generous buffs for some encounters, like 3 stacks of roar
1 - offensively gwf really, really need the icewind grand fissure, even if need LOST 25% or 50% hp first. was the only thing that keeps me often to be killed even in easy battles and, in comparison to other classes, seen imposes presence like "my god, wtf is that".
2 - better bonus of arp-const. remember, have 12% of arp, in live, is like 50% for pve and the class dont have much advantage in pvp now.
defensively is necessary to see the change in temporary hp; but a better aoe defence would be welcome.
the rest seens fine for a lvl 60 in icewind... include threat. work paladins
INTIMIDATION : Daring Shout and Come and Get It now Deal 350% of your weapon damage .. (up to 125%)
UNSTOPPABLE RECOVERY : Activating Unstoppable Now Heals you for 10% (up to 5%) of your Max.HP.
MASTER AT ARMS : Furthering your ability to use your weapon defensively , each stack of Weapon Master now also grants 10% (up to 2%) Defelct Chance ... ... ...
SENTINEL'S AEGIS : Increases the effectiveness of your Defense Stat by 50% (up to 20%) and causes Restoring Strike to Heal an additional 50% over 3 sec. Unstoppable now grants 60-100% (up to 40-80%) DR when Activated.
Comments
In general this is a direct buff to how much Temp HP you will generate when you go unstoppable and should let Great Weapon Fighters maintain better uptime on targets in PVE while being less squishy in PVP.
Thank you for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Yup, this is why it would make SENSE to give GFs more deflect with block, So rather than block mitigating 80% of damage incoming, it SHOULD be it grants the GF 100% deflect chance (since thats what it really does right?) along with an increase of like 30% deflection severity.
This would do roughly the same thing that 80% DR and the ability to deflect after the DR would give, but it would be more "RP appropriate" but considering its the same end just different "coding" I dont see much issue with leaving it.
Thanks Crush! This is more like it! I will have to test and see how this impacts GWFs, maybe you could add clarity to what this means "damage bonuses"?
So If I have full 10 destroyer stacks up for a damage bonus of 50% what does this mean?
Also, I am a little worried about the healing depression impact to Temp HP. With HD its a pretty big difference between PVE and PVP. IN PVE it could be too OP where as PVP it could not be enough.
I honestly dont see any feats that would be considered OP if you removed healing depression's impact on Temp HP - but kept it with everything else. Is that possible?
This would help all those small 2/3/4% Temp HP feats that fighters have that became useless with HD that could be useful again.
There are no classes that really generate tons of temp HP - I think Temp HP should not have been included in the Healing Depression nerf. Removing HD from Temp HP would make both fighters and now the Pally much more useful with those feats/features.
It also helps GWFs dramatically.
Won't that make destroyer much tankier than sentinel? I don't think damage bonus should scale Unstoppable. Afterall, destroyer can get 100%+ higher damage bonus than sentinel.
Yeah Im not 100% sold on this either. I like the fact temp HP lasts now after it ends - which will help alot. However I dont know if temp HP scaled off dmg boosts is what is best. Because Destroyers actually wont get their damage boosted until after they pop unstoppable once already.
By the time they get stacks TO pop unstoppable a second time, they will be <25% HP or dead.
Also even if you get a +50% dmg boost, whats it going to do give us 8-16% * 150%? This is still only 12-24% but cut in HALF for healing depression.
So it would be a NET 6-12% in PVP. That is hardly much gain at all, this is why I think Temp HP first needs to be removed from the impact of Healing Depression - THEN you can beef up the temp HP gain.
I reserve final judgement for testing because now things like STR could potentially give us more temp HP, same with Power etc.... But we will see exactly what does and doesnt count towards this "boost".... Im pretty skeptical because as I said above,
Even if we get +100% dmg boost that puts us back at NORMAL Temp HP levels - with Healing Depression. This will not be enough to make the class viable.
well in other words we dont know for certain what we will have in mod6, and we cannot know if this is a good change..
but he took in consideration our "complains" and buffed temp hp, how it will work by scaling out of damage bonus? i dont know.
like i dont know what will be the max of weapon damage at a rank 80 legendary artifact.
NO, piercing damage is ok for some to use, but it should grant like armor pen, and not ignore tenacity, steely defense or other types of abilities of that such.
and selfhealing, try restoring strike with a tier 4 and on sentinel paragon.
This exactly. Piercing damage should attack with 100% ARP. The whole concept of "it was already affected by that on the initial attack" just doesnt work. It sounds great in theory but SO many classes have specific mechanics that are not JUST "DR" but are re-active.
A perfect example is a TR using Lashing Blade on a GWF, who then pops unstoppable. 6 seconds later while he is STILL in Unstoppable, SoD procs and kills him. So while the initial hit WAS affected by DR, it wasnt affected by the SAME DR at the time the SoD struck.
Also this type of mechanic requires VERY delicate fine tuning that clearly was not scaled correctly.
Also,
FEEDBACK:
PLEASE consider Removing healing Depression on Temp HP!
hmmm... damage bonus is my power bonus? well, dont solve much. but you dont need solve all the problems of a class by a single ability, so is conservative buff. nice to see
if is all types of bonus, include external, you will create a unecessary imbalance between sentinels and destroyers. not like "My god, destroyers is a super tank now", but is a inconvenient privilege to be used for troll players in the future. you know how this things work.
for example, you create some feat or class feature that becomes a "counter" based how much temporary hp you have lost in a single shot and this temp hp is scaled by damage bonus.
try one shot one destroyer will be a suicide and if the general damage still great...
"who is this pokemon?"
ps: but yes, is a gf plagiarism i guess
Please give us 1 more source of mark or mark-like buff for one of our dpsing encounter/feats. personaly favorite: Weapon Master buff: beside previous functinality, now when criticaly hiting ur enemie, u r apply 1s mark on him, +1s each rank
Zacazu... I am just letting you know, however you are translating it is not working very well. It is very hard to tell what you are talking about...
Overall I think I agree with you that its a STEP in the right direction. This coupled with the damage reduction during unstoppable being removed will help alot. Overall though I am VERY leery this will not do what we need it to...
And clonkyo1, even having damage immunity during unstoppable wouldnt fix the class, most classes in PVP just dodge us anyways and will just wait out the damage immunity. We dont need flat out more DR we need a way to bolster our HP reserves either with actual healing or things like Temp HP...
consequence? trs will need change the strategy against gwfs, so, gwfs will have a chance to one shoot first (using some slow encounter like ibs or grand fissure).
better?
I agree with this, and the whole idea of piercing damage is fine in concept but I hate how its implemented. Its implemented on an automatic basis. If something is going to do piercing damage there needs to be some actual manual control over what and how one uses it. All this proc base damage period is just silly. Dont even need to think, just the the automatic procs do the damage for you. Its silly for TR's CWs and some degrees SW. I can easily see powers that should have piercing damage built into them. But I dont want to derail the subject on that.
A guild mate said his Paladin built up 65k Temp HP during combat in pve. no idea what the rotation was or if you could pull that off in pvp, but there might be an issue here
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Paladin needs a complete rework of some of their powers that grant temp Hp. For example, they have a daily that gives them 100% their max hp as temp hp. That's sick even with healing depression.
Yeah exactly.... That should be bumped to like 30% HP - and then remove HD.
I mean HD creates ALOT of balance issues with PVE and PVP.
Either something like Temp HP will be overpowered in PVE but balanced in PVP or it will be completely Balanced in PVE but suck in PVP.
Right now GWF Temp HP falls under the latter, its "fair" in PVE but just sucks so hard in PVP....
I get healing/regen/lifesteal being nerfed (semi) but I dont get Temp HP... Thats one that seems like either way you slice it, needs to not be affected by HD.
Does almost twice as low damage as one charge of Hidden Daggers and almost as much as Not So Fast (a power you unlock at lvl 2 or 3). It appears Intimidation was overnerfed.
Please note that Sentinel already deals 50%-100%+ lower damage than Instigator/Destroyer. While it's a tank build let's not forget that while GF and Paladin bring utility to the party (and now damage with their 50% weapon damage increase) GWF only brings damage. It's ok if the damage is much lower than dps spec but making his main tool do much lower damage than an encounter with 3 charges and 12s cooldown (with my recovery Daring Shout has 15s cooldown and Come and Get It 13s) is pretty much thoughtless. Hidden Daggers damage can be further increased by Mighty Blade feat as it counts as AoE, unlike Intimidation.
To better illustrate this, here's some actual data from Preview. No buffs/debuffs used:
http://youtu.be/FnyAuTus4JM
Suggested change: Intimidation should take 250% weapon damage at max rank, not 125% as it does now.
Seems to move me forwards a lot more than before and make me overlap with my enemy target
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
Movement speed is incredibly slow. See here: http://youtu.be/RbB48GnJ8bo
This needs to be changed to match that of a shielding GF/Paladin. Additionally, could use a faster startup animation. Currently, it takes 1s+ to start charging. And if you plan to make this a tanking tool you got to make this more responsive than that. CC resist when charging wouldn't hurt either.
ok,
the atwills changes is great. sure strike is a big single target resourse now. ibs starting to become a outdated encounter. need 2 or three generous buffs for some encounters, like 3 stacks of roar
1 - offensively gwf really, really need the icewind grand fissure, even if need LOST 25% or 50% hp first. was the only thing that keeps me often to be killed even in easy battles and, in comparison to other classes, seen imposes presence like "my god, wtf is that".
2 - better bonus of arp-const. remember, have 12% of arp, in live, is like 50% for pve and the class dont have much advantage in pvp now.
defensively is necessary to see the change in temporary hp; but a better aoe defence would be welcome.
the rest seens fine for a lvl 60 in icewind... include threat. work paladins
INTIMIDATION : Daring Shout and Come and Get It now Deal 350% of your weapon damage .. (up to 125%)
UNSTOPPABLE RECOVERY : Activating Unstoppable Now Heals you for 10% (up to 5%) of your Max.HP.
MASTER AT ARMS : Furthering your ability to use your weapon defensively , each stack of Weapon Master now also grants 10% (up to 2%) Defelct Chance ... ... ...
SENTINEL'S AEGIS : Increases the effectiveness of your Defense Stat by 50% (up to 20%) and causes Restoring Strike to Heal an additional 50% over 3 sec. Unstoppable now grants 60-100% (up to 40-80%) DR when Activated.