remove marks' damage and put all that damage into base encounter and dailies damage. Let the mark system as a GF-class and let us, GWF-class, deal plain damage.
Agreed. Marks, like IV, belong to GF. Stacks, delays everywhere before anything procs... and now marks? Gwf in DnD delivers instant damage, not delayed damage. We're not supposed to be setting bear traps and come back the day after to possibly see the delivered damage.
ToD = ..........
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
Agreed. Marks, like IV, belong to GF. Stacks, delays everywhere before anything procs... and now marks? Gwf in DnD delivers instant damage, not delayed damage. We're not supposed to be setting bear traps and come back the day after to possibly see the delivered damage.
Both are fighters; GWF has daring shout - GWFs marking inst something wrong. Thing is we need better base damage, bonus damage from marking should come with powerful challenge. Threating rush mark might help tanking and buff party members damage + its nice gap closer; we need gap closers.
Agreed. Marks, like IV, belong to GF. Stacks, delays everywhere before anything procs... and now marks? Gwf in DnD delivers instant damage, not delayed damage. We're not supposed to be setting bear traps and come back the day after to possibly see the delivered damage.
Well I assume Mark was taken from "Combat Challenge": "In combat, it's dangerous to ignore a fighter. Every time you attack an enemy, whether the attack hits or misses, you can choose to mark that target"
So how does Mark work? "When a marked enemy is adjacent to the fighter who marked it, and shifts or makes an attack that does not include the fighter who marked it as a target, the fighter who marked it can make amelee basic attack against it as an immediate interrupt action."
So how could this work better in NeverWinter?
I think the easiest transition into the game would be to instead of providing damage % increase and Combat advantage, it provide an interrupt % each time you attack a market target. This interrupt would place any attack on CD - rather than just interrupting it. I think the % could be around 10%. This Interrupt would also interrupt movement as well, focring a player to "re-press" a run button. While this isnt a direct "CC" it definitely helps the GWF NOT get kited around and make it dangerous to get within range.
GWF Mark, should be able to be applied off: - Threat Rush, Daring Shout, IBS (should mark regardless of kill.) Flourish, Punishing Charge, Battle Fury, Daring Shout, and Roar.
Then, Take the Damage we lose, and apply it to other areas. ALL our base attacks should get increased by about 25%. Strength should also be increased to 2% damage per point. This will provide ABOUT a +40% (with 25 STR) damage bonus to our "Base" which starts coming CLOSER to what is was pre-mark without relying on Mark.
You can THEN change Powerful Challenge to "Attacking Targets who are Marked now also grants Combat advantage for 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5 seconds and increases your threat by: 10/20/30/40/50%, this provides both increased damage AND threat for Sentinels. But now, combat advantage becomes much more important again and abilities that grant this are not "automatic" anymore, meaning positioning becomes much more important.
Thus a Destroyer (for instance) can either choose to go with Sentinel feats like powerful challenge - giving them combat advantage OR Instigator and get Allied Opportunity for Combat Advantage. FYI - Mighty Leap needs to Stun for 2 seconds minimum (not affected by Deflect). An Instagator can get easy access to CA as well as Sentinel. Each with their own pros and cons.
Now we have:
1) Multiple ways to add mark, which has a chance to interrupt - truly making the Fighter a threat that cannot be ignored.
2) Increased Base damage in place of damage reliant upon mark, this helps both SM and IV be "on par" with eachother.
3) Multiple paths in each tree that grant combat advantage back to the GWF for a limited time, IN BOTH TREES.
4) Strength becomes more important for GWFs - this should be our primary stat.
All that is LEFT to fix, is the stacking system, and making Temp HP NOT reliant upon damage boosts. As well as our Damage Resistance from Unstoppable being on its OWN layer of DR, as well as boosting it to a BASE of 30% (compared to GFs block of 80% which they have on demand).
I think that would be ideal for GWFs, now we have many options for many builds, each with their own pros and cons. SM can arguably deal slighty more damage with Weapon Master Strike. They both have the ability to mark with MANY encounters as well as feats that would then give combat advantage for a short time.
How about GFs? They have Mark on Tab: I think this has multiple options. GFs, can mark targets with Tab, which would NOT grant combat advantage or damage bonus anymore. When they attack they also have a chance to interrupt but ALSO, when they DO interrupt, their "tab" mechanic lights up and becomes on activatable "melee attack" that they can use on command - this would be VERY similar (or mayb even copy) Griffons Wrath as the interrupt attack.
So how that would work is a GF Marks the Target, starts attacking and the % chance procs which interrupts the targets action (places the skill interrupted, if any, on CD). The GF THEN has a 3-4 second window to press "TAB" again which activates a nice hard hitting attack "picture griffons wrath here" that deals nice damage and STUNS the target for 2 seconds (not affected by deflect). I can imagine things like Enforced Threat nearly proccing this everytime, giving a nice AoE interrupt as well as Mark all targets as well as proc the Tab "Encounter" for a solo-Stun. GFs and GWFs truly become a Melee Opponent to fear!
BOTH of these are more true to the D&D PnP version and better represent Mark as well as Make some nice balance adjustments to the class.
Not to mention that it makes GF-playing MUCH more fun because they normally have to waste an encounter slot on Knights Valor or Into the Fray for Party DPS/Protection. So this (in a way) gives GFs BACK an "encounter" to use for damage/CC purposes.
Unstoppable needs a buff. Even with 46k HP, using Restoring strike and avoiding the big bad red areas, the enemies can easily take you down during unstoppable, we still take way too much damage during unstoppable.
What is the point in calling a mechanic "unstoppable" if the warrior still takes massive amounts of damage and must run around to avoid getting killed?
Now, it's ok if the GWF must sprint and avoid damage when he's normal to build determination without getting killed. But once we go unstoppable, in both mod6 PvE and PvP, IT DOES NOTHING.
Those 4-8 seconds should be that short period of time during which the GWF is "unstoppable" and can focus on attacking. Instead, we still get a ton of damage and die.
Until GWFs get capstone at level 70, Unstoppable is USELESS. It does not build up damage and it's completely uneffective for defense in PvP and PvE. Now with damage buff, even WoD mobs take down GWFs during unstoppable. You must run most of the time, hit and run EVEN DURING UNSTOPPABLE, which sorry but is complete nonsense.
Now, sincerely, instead of buffing determination gain for more useless unstoppable, i really think it's way better if we get a buff to steadfast determination for tradeoff, keep current determination gain or just SLIGHTLY faster, but turn unstoppable again into a short period of time during which the GWF absorbs most of the incoming damage.
Also, consider how faster determination gain where already we have DPS overkill in both PvP and PvE, would result in the bar filling up too fast, making the GWF still take more damage than it's needed, while the basic, defensive side of the mechanic will remain worthless.
Right now, seeing GWFs going all big and red and still go down fast, is a bit pathetic.
Bring the mechanic in line with what other classes have.
Right now, the BASIC mechanic is useless. The DR is useless against both solo-content mobs and other players. It just makes you at-will faster, but you can't do it cause if you stop moving, you die. That's dumb. Plain and simple.
Feedback:
- Make determination gain based on total % of HP lost and make it a SOLID 20% HP lost for half bar, 40% of total HP lost for a full unstoppable, which can be buffed through steadfast determination at the cost of one defensive or offensive passive power. Better than what we have now (50% HP lost for a full bar), but not too fast either.
- Make Unstoppable 60% DR base, 80% on sentinels, not-debuffable, not pierceable.
- Buff RS damage and healing on sentinel capstone
Now, if i'm right, you have a warrior that as a sentinel can actually tank, is flexible and can go either for more damage, more movement speed or more determination gain, each one combined the way we want. Leaves plenty of time for other classes to deal damage, leaves time to GWF to manage his unstoppable building determination at a reasonable speed, and makes unstoppable a useful tool to survive, perhaps timing it to shield yourself from a big hit (right now, even "timing" unstoppable, you still take very high damage and die).
I do agree that unstoppable seems rather weak as far as the DR is concerned. I do like keeping the determination gain on a PRE-DR basis since that REALLY helps align the GWFs tools with eachother instead of making them opposites.
If its % of HP loss, when we sprint we actually gain LESS determination. The tankier we build, for the same damage we take we build less. I think this is a flawed mechanic.
If its PRE-DR based, then when we SPRINT we actually still gain the same amount of determination BUT lost less HP. Also the tankier we build the better as now we can earn MORE determination per damage with losing LESS HP to do it.
I do agree it needs a buff. Something to note: Unstoppable CURRENTLY:
- CC Immunity
- Grants 15-30% DR
- Grants 8-16% Temp HP (multiplied by damage bonus)
- Grants 20% run speed
- Grants ALSO ~30% increased attack speed
Thats ALOT of very random, different things that I think need to be simplified DOWN.
Unstoppable SHOULD:
- CC Immunity
- Grant 30% DR (on its OWN layer - like Block)
- Grant 15% Temp HP
- Grant 20% Run Speed
- Grant 30% increased attack speed
Now all of this is very consistent regardless of what % of determination you have. So what is the benefit of having more determination? Well, LONGER unstoppable, LONGER run speed, LONGER CC immunity, LONGER attack speed I dont think we need to have more DR and more temp HP just because of more determination.
Now will this be enough? Players seem to keep saying its not enough DR.
Well this is where I think there is a very good solution that might be very unique and feel very good:
REMOVE the In-ability (lack of ability) to earn determination DURING unstoppable.
What this will potentially do is allow you to stay in unstoppable much longer if you continue to take damage. Thus helps alleviate the issue that GWFs have when they pop unstoppable and continue to get pelted during unstoppable, even with increased DR, to continue to have increased DR, attack speed, run speed etc.
Why I dont think its THAT OP would be the fact that we DONT get extended Temp HP so its not a "self heal" given the short duration of Unstoppable and how fast its spent, this would translate over to MAYBE 1-3 seconds more of Uptime but only if we are really being pelted. If classes dont hurt us, dodge 2x chances are we will be out of it and vulnerable.
Class Features
The following class features will become available at 60 points.
Warrior's Courage - Gain 5/10/15% Damage Resistance when below 50% HP. Gain 3/6/9% Deflect chance when below 25% HP.
Wrathful Determination - You gain up to 5/7.5/9% melee damage as your Determination fills up. This bonus is doubled when your Determination is full. Rank: +2.5% damage.
[/LIST]
Wrathful Determination
I have no will to use it, cause it discorages me to use my class feature.
Could be diferent, the double bonus at full bar could be prolonged to unstoppable.
So people have an alternative to the Stacking sistem, with an 18% at unstoppable.
No, forget unstoppable (or mark) ... we are falling into the trap to try make the class "viable" w/o do the real job.
It is necessary to work on the basics.
Ws, for example, reduce damage on the enemy 6%. Why not 12/20? Slam reduces 15. Why not 30/40? Sure strike has no additional effect. Why dont add stamina gain for this Atwill? Savage advanced is not usable in pve and the class need close gaps for pvp. Why not cut the MP cost? Mleap is a potential close gap / dodge and the number of enemies in dungeons have been decreased, so ... charges. Roar had adjusted bug and became a poor encounter: why not give charges too? better bonus for nsf maybe?
the class still have a horrible base damage for a burst class. IAM NOT HAPPY TO NEED SO MUCH STACKS, OR MARK. STACKS FOR A GLASS CANNON MELEE CLASS W/O DODGE IS A CRIME.
Grand fissure was destroyed, period? Reaping strike continues unusable, period? Steadfast still unusable, period? LETS BE CLEAR HERE; IF GWF AND CWS SHARE THE SAME CLASS FEATURE, STEEL BLITZ, WHY THE MAIN DPS CLASS VERSION IS WORST? THE SAME QUESTION COME ABOUT WEAPON MASTER.
cw vs gwf in tank. NO MIMIMI, FACTS. PROVES. THE REALITY
why cw, A RANGE CLASS, that DONT NEED fight so close and dont is a atwill focused have better survive tools than a single class that dont have dodge and IS A SECUNDARY TANK?
nerf cw dont will help now (too late... again. you choose, again, destroy even more the game than fix this class before to launch a new one.), so... WORK IN THE BASE OF GWF. YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT GWFS IN PVE. THIS IS ABOUT FACTS. NUMBERS. REALITY.
in facts, months ago i say "nerf ls dont will balance pve" and after that, curves will be a massive problem of gwf, and after that, most part of gwf players dont will be able to reach lvl 70. now i said what you need to do to MAYBE turn the gwf life less pathetic to THIS MODULE, not the m7 when the problems will change. DONT THINK, DO! i know what are i talk about, my good lord...
in fact, since m3 i said, in the next modules, gwf will be dead, but lets forget
Yeah, in all honesty i was thinking about a way to make sprint let the gwf gain more determination if used well.
It's just that testing destroyer in wod, 46k hp, lvl 60, reinforced avatar of war, i noticed that if you go unstoppable and stop to, well, attack to gain stacks, vs normal grups of mobs, well, you die cause you still take a lot of damage during unstoppable.
As shown above, current unstoppable base level is useless in solo pve to survive. CW shield on tab works a lot better and that's absurd.
In pvp it's the same. You go unstoppable, you still get a ton of damage with all the piercing damage and debuffs.
Long story short, dr from unstoppable as it is, will be almost uneffective in module 6, if you ask me. The damage seems fine, but we're made of thin paper...
Now i'd understand if it was group content where mobs are cced and you are protected.
But struggling to survive in solo content cause even when we go unstoppable, we can't stop running around or the group of mobs we face still kills us?
Challenge is: i have to hit-run and select the damage i take to build determination or i get killed. Then i go unstoppable, go all out in attack, then back to careful hit-run.
Now, from my tests, it's: hit-run, go unstoppable, hit-run or you die.
Unstoppable must grant in pve solo content and pvp, a strong enough degree of protection. Right now, it doesn't. Basically, until you get a capstone, it does nothing. Not enough protection, can't stop to take advantage of the increased at-will speed. We can run faster, but we can't fight in melee.
Unstoppable must grant a solid mitigation to allow the melee fighter to actually go all-out in attack and tank the damage from solo content and pvp. Going unstoppable more does not solve the issue since unstoppable at base level does not provide enough protection in my opinion.
Now i understand destroyer is a DPS path, but it's a melee fighter that cannot fight in a brawl but has to run from the enemy non-stop. Turns big and red and...dies.
Capstones add useful buffs but that means that until you get to 70, your class mechanic provides nothing to really help you.
Take a CW. Make it melee and with less cc. Take away shield on tab.
Now you have gwf in module 6.
If unstoppable is meant to provide other tools and little protection, then turn sprint in a full cc-DPS immunity.
Else, you have a melee fighter class that goes down way too fast, taking tons of damage in any situation (sprinting, normal or unstoppable) with insufficient tools to mitigate incoming DPS.
Could not agree more.
From my tests, same experience. Devs, look at that video. That's gwf in solo content.
Lacks survivability for a melee class. Look at damage taken during unstoppable. It's still huge, expecially considering a gwf fights in melee range surrounded by mobs.
Plus, i'm quite disappointed how the new powers are...ranged??
We're a melee class. We should fight melee. Are you trying to turn us into a poverty version of a CW but less survivable?
this is before the atwill/temporary hp buff, BUT, my general base down, grand fissure is no longer useful (in fact, i dont have a third good encounter...only daggers and the decadent ibs) and now enemies hit for 2x to 10x more hard.
summary:that video show a poor class - the over nerfed good damage dont justify this class being so poor in general - and that is worst now, internally and externally.
but the devs are happy...
speak about pve/solo. or buff the damage again and giveme dodges (or parryng/block), or do a complete work, atwill by atwill, encounter by encounter, class feature by class feature, daily by daily, feat by feat.
down the damage of monsters and fix the m4/m5 buffed classes will work too, but god know that will not happen.
The point is also that, for example, destroyer must gain stacks of capstone during unstoppable, which means you either FLS on a group during unstoppable before you gain stacks (less damage) or you need to stop and at-will. But you can't do that cause, if you do, the group of mobs will kill you while you are "unstoppable", proving this way that you are, indeed, "stoppable".
Also, even the DPS path (destroyer) works building damage slowly AFTER taking damage. Now, if you keep it as squishy as paper, you pretty much make the very same mechanic work AGAINST the fighter.
"I force you to take damage to deal damage, but i make you also unable to survive more than few hits".
"You are a melee fighter who fights inside packs of mobs. But, uhm, well, if they hit you, you die in few hits"
Devs, you either give us heavy DPS straight away so we hit and run all the time, or you give us the tools to tank/ absorb damage to then slowly build-up our damage buffs.
Also, 80% DR on sentinel with little damage, when it can get pierced and debuffed, oneshotted by SE exc... does NOT make the path "tanky". Just barely more survivable in PvE, still easily killed in PvP.
If my GWF of 24k near bis feels so squishy in mod 6, I can only imagine how lesser geared players will fare. Personally I think once it all goes LIVE people will realize that they, in fact, cannot play the game because pve is brutally stronger than them. At this point forum raging will ensue, some reddit topics as well since moderatos here delete posts left and right. Many people will leave the game for real and PWE will be forced to cut losses again. Who knows maybe even Crush will get "crushed"
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Feedback: our DR / defence need to stock up,
I was thinking about, why do we not degrees the 400 DEF=1%DR for GWF "Especially.
like 250DEF=1%DR or 300DEF=1%DR at least.
we are a melee class with no dodges,
how is it possible that a CW with only 1k DEF survive longer than a gwf with 3k+Def ??
it's simply because of the constantly dodge,
How does a Fight work ??
GWF must accept hurts at first, before he actually can start attacking.
all Ranged (+TR) classes throwing 2-3 free encounters or straight a Daily at first.
Before gwfs Turn, than we can beginnen to start attacking,
and than is probably too late for us, we lost already a lot of HP.
If we have luck to survive than with a very low HP otherwise we are already dead.
(btw TR is not a pure/ Real melee, he's more hybrid Ranged.
TR got a lot of distance skil,cload,path,impact etc. Currently theres only GWF/GF as melee class,
i just want to clarity.)
<::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
When going unstoppable, the GWF gain 30% additional DR and 30% temporary HP (15% in PvP with Healing Depression). This DR cannot be pierced or debuffed, and the HPs stay after unstoppable and are buffed by bonus damage. When struck by a monster during unstoppable, the GWF gain 10% determination and 15% temporary, "normal" DR for a max of 30% temporary DR. This temporary buffs disappear after Unstoppable wears out.
The idea is to give unstoppable a solid, basic, but not OP mitigation for PvP, then make hits during Unstoppable "buff" him in PvE so that the GWF can fight in melee range without dying in few hits by solo content mobs. This way in PvE the warrior is able to tank a bit more cause in few hits his DR will be maxed during unstoppable and unstoppable will be extended a bit.
In PvP not-pierceable DR will solve the SE-oneshotting issues hopefully, while giving to destroyer enough survivability to build up stacks.
Sentinel capstone: 80% DR straight from unstoppable, and Unstoppable DR cannot be pierced or debuffed and instead of temporary DR, when hit by monsters or players during unstoppable, the GWF gain 2% of total HPs as temporary HP for a max of 10% temporary HP. These HPs disappear after Unstoppable wears out.
Restoring strike damage is increased by 30%.
Destroyer capstone: when dealing damage during unstoppable you gain 5% determination
Numbers can be changed but the basic idea is to increase PvE tankyness a lot (needed) as a base, while increasing PvP survivability a bit.
Pretty much destroyers would survive a bit more in PvP to build up damage, sentinels will have a bit more single target DPS but still behind DPS classes/ builds, and a MASSIVE boost to protection (80% unpierceable/ undebuffable DR during unstoppable) to make up for the loss of intimidation.
This way you have viable DPS melee warriors and tanky survivability builds.
Instigator capstone: you gain 10% more damage, plus when hit you gain 10% damage and 5% shorter cooldowns, stacks up to 40% damage (4 stacks) and 30% cooldown reduction (6 stacks).
Also, even the DPS path (destroyer) works building damage slowly AFTER taking damage. Now, if you keep it as squishy as paper, you pretty much make the very same mechanic work AGAINST the fighter.
"I force you to take damage to deal damage, but i make you also unable to survive more than few hits".
"You are a melee fighter who fights inside packs of mobs. But, uhm, well, if they hit you, you die in few hits"
i agree ...
what scares me is this: most of the offensive buffs we request over the last modules were given, some even unnecessary,
in the t"emporary hp week", the class was very close to being A+++.
*in this time, just need determination gain equal for all trees, work in instigators, BEST OPTIONS to replace ibs, better arp, and done! (pve).
a change in the general rules of the game and the whole class collapses. gwf is very, very inconsistent.
just think about the capstone of the instigator. imagine how much damage he need take in pve/solo to acquire and sustain the stacks. this tree are closed.
building damage slowly AFTER taking damage. Now, if you keep it as squishy as paper, you pretty much make the very same mechanic work AGAINST the fighter.
This.
Unlike us, the foes have no stacks, no delays, no feats that *may* proc but usually don't. They kill us right here, right now.
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someonediesMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,257Arc User
edited March 2015
and again:
Feedback:
Iron Vanguard: Threatening Rush: remove charges (for PVE maybe?);
Swordmaster: refund old Weapon Master's Strike (animation cancelling).
This.
Unlike us, the foes have no stacks, no delays, no feats that *may* proc but usually don't. They kill us right here, right now.
Yeah this is a large part of our issue.
Honestly id rather them remove ALL stacking and just give each feat a chance to proc the FULL buff for X duration. Im sure on a DPS "calculation" you could scale this easily to be the same as it is right now, but this would DRASTICALLY help PVP.
What i dont understand is why we dont do something like this:
Destroyer: You gain +9% damage for 4 seconds after attacking more than 3 targets with a single attack (removed stacking). Additional ranks: +9% damage, +9% damage. (SAME overall damage, same 'uptime' effect but REMOVED stacking.
Thus this removes stacking completely which frankly will NOT affect PVE DPS AT ALL since its VERY easy to get stacks in PVE. But this VERY VERY MUCH increases the PVP benefits.
THEN: Focused Destroyer:Destroyer now has a chance (up to 25% - same as now) to apply after attacking any number of targets. Additionally, Destroyer grants you an extra: 2/4/6/8/10% damage.
Overall this makes NO difference in PVE, it actually SLIGHTLY lowers the overall damage we gain. BUT! requires NO stacking. Its a flat 4 second buff on ANY attack.
Just think about the capstone of the instigator. imagine how much damage he need take in pve/solo to acquire and sustain the stacks. this tree are closed.
SOLUTION: Instigator's Vengeance: Increase your damage by 50% for 6 seconds after you are struck in combat.
- NO stacking, requires you to be hit. Much better uptime for both solo-play, PVP, and PVE. Much more reliable to get up and easier to keep up.
PROBLEM:
Destroyer Capstone, requires Unstoppable to access. Also requires stacking IN unstoppable which takes a significant build up period.
SOLUTION: Destroyer's Purpose: You now gain determination by dealing damage. Also, increases your encounter power damage by 10% in Unstoppable.
- Each time you attack, gain a stack of Destroyers Purpose (max of 10). Each stack increases your damage by 5%. Each stack lasts 25 seconds.
Basically the ONLY changes are:
- Removed Ustoppable requirement.
- Each stack has its OWN duration, they do NOT refresh themselves. This would act much like Negation Enchant does today.
OVERALL: NO difference in PVE damage, better access to damage in PVP without making it OP.
this thing about dont Affect pve is just dev mimiim.
gwf should over dps all classes, including sws. why? because is melee glass cannon w/o dodge, so, more exposed.
the solution for stacks is simple: remove that and put in the base (50% damage buff).for capstone, instigators will reflect the incoming damage+your damage bonus (15 secs cooldown). this is a true vengeance. for destroyer you can over buff the encounter bonus during unstoppable.
the rest, take all the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> encounters and give stacks. determination by damage dealer for all trees. more dr during sprint. put Wrathful Determination bonus in destroyer line. now, maybe, i will have some fun and not only the devs.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited March 2015
feedback: reverse grand fissure, it needs more bite then you have given it. GWF needs some more reliable ways to AOE through DDs, it cant be just a single attack BOSS class, that didnt work for the TR and it wont work for the GWF.
IT would be nice if you looked at some other aoe skills as well, but Ill take one step in the right direction. We should be able to load out different powers for different circumstances, just like the CW/TR does. This has always been a fairly week point on this class and should be looked at before release.
rofl is it me or grand fissure got dmg nerfed again??
last time i had 5k base dmg on it now its 3k wtf?
the most important class of the game (you can love or hate; antagonism have your power) still being nerfed when the time is to overbuff this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. "but the devs are happy". well, less 9 now.
Feedback Grand Fissure/hidden daggers:
Why you guys make another skill that GWF will not use, grand fissure has way too low dmg,very long animation and its really difficult to hit the targets overall its just another useless skill in GWF arsenal.(basicaly 80% of the GWF skills are useless)
Hidden daggers doesnt even fit the class, damage buff is nice but the skill itself is terrible please change it into something else.
I kinda liked hidden daggers lol but anyways yes this on grand fissure its too hard to hit with being narrow with a long cast time and the AI's tendancy to want to flank you I figured that was why it hit so hard but nope they want it a 3k so it will be relegated to those powers no one uses like reaping strike
front line surge even nerfed hits harder faster has a bigger AoE and prones enemies for an intterupt instead of just a dinky slow
I am not sure why you guys don't like Hidden Daggers. It doesn't fit 100% with a big sword swinger image, but i can see a GWF having a bunch of daggers for special uses.
Either way HD is a great pve skill. the damage buff it gives, and the 3 charges as well as it's overall damage make it better then any other encounter GWF have other then IBS
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Comments
Agreed. Marks, like IV, belong to GF. Stacks, delays everywhere before anything procs... and now marks? Gwf in DnD delivers instant damage, not delayed damage. We're not supposed to be setting bear traps and come back the day after to possibly see the delivered damage.
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
Both are fighters; GWF has daring shout - GWFs marking inst something wrong. Thing is we need better base damage, bonus damage from marking should come with powerful challenge. Threating rush mark might help tanking and buff party members damage + its nice gap closer; we need gap closers.
Great suggestion, helps all GWFs.
Well I assume Mark was taken from "Combat Challenge":
"In combat, it's dangerous to ignore a fighter. Every time you attack an enemy, whether the attack hits or misses, you can choose to mark that target"
So how does Mark work?
"When a marked enemy is adjacent to the fighter who marked it, and shifts or makes an attack that does not include the fighter who marked it as a target, the fighter who marked it can make a melee basic attack against it as an immediate interrupt action."
So how could this work better in NeverWinter?
I think the easiest transition into the game would be to instead of providing damage % increase and Combat advantage, it provide an interrupt % each time you attack a market target. This interrupt would place any attack on CD - rather than just interrupting it. I think the % could be around 10%. This Interrupt would also interrupt movement as well, focring a player to "re-press" a run button. While this isnt a direct "CC" it definitely helps the GWF NOT get kited around and make it dangerous to get within range.
GWF Mark, should be able to be applied off:
- Threat Rush, Daring Shout, IBS (should mark regardless of kill.) Flourish, Punishing Charge, Battle Fury, Daring Shout, and Roar.
Then, Take the Damage we lose, and apply it to other areas. ALL our base attacks should get increased by about 25%. Strength should also be increased to 2% damage per point. This will provide ABOUT a +40% (with 25 STR) damage bonus to our "Base" which starts coming CLOSER to what is was pre-mark without relying on Mark.
You can THEN change Powerful Challenge to "Attacking Targets who are Marked now also grants Combat advantage for 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5 seconds and increases your threat by: 10/20/30/40/50%, this provides both increased damage AND threat for Sentinels. But now, combat advantage becomes much more important again and abilities that grant this are not "automatic" anymore, meaning positioning becomes much more important.
Thus a Destroyer (for instance) can either choose to go with Sentinel feats like powerful challenge - giving them combat advantage OR Instigator and get Allied Opportunity for Combat Advantage. FYI - Mighty Leap needs to Stun for 2 seconds minimum (not affected by Deflect). An Instagator can get easy access to CA as well as Sentinel. Each with their own pros and cons.
Now we have:
1) Multiple ways to add mark, which has a chance to interrupt - truly making the Fighter a threat that cannot be ignored.
2) Increased Base damage in place of damage reliant upon mark, this helps both SM and IV be "on par" with eachother.
3) Multiple paths in each tree that grant combat advantage back to the GWF for a limited time, IN BOTH TREES.
4) Strength becomes more important for GWFs - this should be our primary stat.
All that is LEFT to fix, is the stacking system, and making Temp HP NOT reliant upon damage boosts. As well as our Damage Resistance from Unstoppable being on its OWN layer of DR, as well as boosting it to a BASE of 30% (compared to GFs block of 80% which they have on demand).
I think that would be ideal for GWFs, now we have many options for many builds, each with their own pros and cons. SM can arguably deal slighty more damage with Weapon Master Strike. They both have the ability to mark with MANY encounters as well as feats that would then give combat advantage for a short time.
How about GFs? They have Mark on Tab:
I think this has multiple options. GFs, can mark targets with Tab, which would NOT grant combat advantage or damage bonus anymore. When they attack they also have a chance to interrupt but ALSO, when they DO interrupt, their "tab" mechanic lights up and becomes on activatable "melee attack" that they can use on command - this would be VERY similar (or mayb even copy) Griffons Wrath as the interrupt attack.
So how that would work is a GF Marks the Target, starts attacking and the % chance procs which interrupts the targets action (places the skill interrupted, if any, on CD). The GF THEN has a 3-4 second window to press "TAB" again which activates a nice hard hitting attack "picture griffons wrath here" that deals nice damage and STUNS the target for 2 seconds (not affected by deflect). I can imagine things like Enforced Threat nearly proccing this everytime, giving a nice AoE interrupt as well as Mark all targets as well as proc the Tab "Encounter" for a solo-Stun. GFs and GWFs truly become a Melee Opponent to fear!
BOTH of these are more true to the D&D PnP version and better represent Mark as well as Make some nice balance adjustments to the class.
Not to mention that it makes GF-playing MUCH more fun because they normally have to waste an encounter slot on Knights Valor or Into the Fray for Party DPS/Protection. So this (in a way) gives GFs BACK an "encounter" to use for damage/CC purposes.
Unstoppable needs a buff. Even with 46k HP, using Restoring strike and avoiding the big bad red areas, the enemies can easily take you down during unstoppable, we still take way too much damage during unstoppable.
What is the point in calling a mechanic "unstoppable" if the warrior still takes massive amounts of damage and must run around to avoid getting killed?
Now, it's ok if the GWF must sprint and avoid damage when he's normal to build determination without getting killed. But once we go unstoppable, in both mod6 PvE and PvP, IT DOES NOTHING.
Those 4-8 seconds should be that short period of time during which the GWF is "unstoppable" and can focus on attacking. Instead, we still get a ton of damage and die.
Until GWFs get capstone at level 70, Unstoppable is USELESS. It does not build up damage and it's completely uneffective for defense in PvP and PvE. Now with damage buff, even WoD mobs take down GWFs during unstoppable. You must run most of the time, hit and run EVEN DURING UNSTOPPABLE, which sorry but is complete nonsense.
Now, sincerely, instead of buffing determination gain for more useless unstoppable, i really think it's way better if we get a buff to steadfast determination for tradeoff, keep current determination gain or just SLIGHTLY faster, but turn unstoppable again into a short period of time during which the GWF absorbs most of the incoming damage.
Also, consider how faster determination gain where already we have DPS overkill in both PvP and PvE, would result in the bar filling up too fast, making the GWF still take more damage than it's needed, while the basic, defensive side of the mechanic will remain worthless.
Right now, seeing GWFs going all big and red and still go down fast, is a bit pathetic.
Bring the mechanic in line with what other classes have.
Right now, the BASIC mechanic is useless. The DR is useless against both solo-content mobs and other players. It just makes you at-will faster, but you can't do it cause if you stop moving, you die. That's dumb. Plain and simple.
Feedback:
- Make determination gain based on total % of HP lost and make it a SOLID 20% HP lost for half bar, 40% of total HP lost for a full unstoppable, which can be buffed through steadfast determination at the cost of one defensive or offensive passive power. Better than what we have now (50% HP lost for a full bar), but not too fast either.
- Make Unstoppable 60% DR base, 80% on sentinels, not-debuffable, not pierceable.
- Buff RS damage and healing on sentinel capstone
Now, if i'm right, you have a warrior that as a sentinel can actually tank, is flexible and can go either for more damage, more movement speed or more determination gain, each one combined the way we want. Leaves plenty of time for other classes to deal damage, leaves time to GWF to manage his unstoppable building determination at a reasonable speed, and makes unstoppable a useful tool to survive, perhaps timing it to shield yourself from a big hit (right now, even "timing" unstoppable, you still take very high damage and die).
With all due respect I think I disagree.
I do agree that unstoppable seems rather weak as far as the DR is concerned. I do like keeping the determination gain on a PRE-DR basis since that REALLY helps align the GWFs tools with eachother instead of making them opposites.
If its % of HP loss, when we sprint we actually gain LESS determination. The tankier we build, for the same damage we take we build less. I think this is a flawed mechanic.
If its PRE-DR based, then when we SPRINT we actually still gain the same amount of determination BUT lost less HP. Also the tankier we build the better as now we can earn MORE determination per damage with losing LESS HP to do it.
I do agree it needs a buff. Something to note:
Unstoppable CURRENTLY:
- CC Immunity
- Grants 15-30% DR
- Grants 8-16% Temp HP (multiplied by damage bonus)
- Grants 20% run speed
- Grants ALSO ~30% increased attack speed
Thats ALOT of very random, different things that I think need to be simplified DOWN.
Unstoppable SHOULD:
- CC Immunity
- Grant 30% DR (on its OWN layer - like Block)
- Grant 15% Temp HP
- Grant 20% Run Speed
- Grant 30% increased attack speed
Now all of this is very consistent regardless of what % of determination you have. So what is the benefit of having more determination? Well, LONGER unstoppable, LONGER run speed, LONGER CC immunity, LONGER attack speed I dont think we need to have more DR and more temp HP just because of more determination.
Now will this be enough? Players seem to keep saying its not enough DR.
Well this is where I think there is a very good solution that might be very unique and feel very good:
REMOVE the In-ability (lack of ability) to earn determination DURING unstoppable.
What this will potentially do is allow you to stay in unstoppable much longer if you continue to take damage. Thus helps alleviate the issue that GWFs have when they pop unstoppable and continue to get pelted during unstoppable, even with increased DR, to continue to have increased DR, attack speed, run speed etc.
Why I dont think its THAT OP would be the fact that we DONT get extended Temp HP so its not a "self heal" given the short duration of Unstoppable and how fast its spent, this would translate over to MAYBE 1-3 seconds more of Uptime but only if we are really being pelted. If classes dont hurt us, dodge 2x chances are we will be out of it and vulnerable.
Wrathful Determination
I have no will to use it, cause it discorages me to use my class feature.
Could be diferent, the double bonus at full bar could be prolonged to unstoppable.
So people have an alternative to the Stacking sistem, with an 18% at unstoppable.
It is necessary to work on the basics.
Ws, for example, reduce damage on the enemy 6%. Why not 12/20? Slam reduces 15. Why not 30/40? Sure strike has no additional effect. Why dont add stamina gain for this Atwill? Savage advanced is not usable in pve and the class need close gaps for pvp. Why not cut the MP cost? Mleap is a potential close gap / dodge and the number of enemies in dungeons have been decreased, so ... charges. Roar had adjusted bug and became a poor encounter: why not give charges too? better bonus for nsf maybe?
the class still have a horrible base damage for a burst class. IAM NOT HAPPY TO NEED SO MUCH STACKS, OR MARK. STACKS FOR A GLASS CANNON MELEE CLASS W/O DODGE IS A CRIME.
Grand fissure was destroyed, period? Reaping strike continues unusable, period? Steadfast still unusable, period? LETS BE CLEAR HERE; IF GWF AND CWS SHARE THE SAME CLASS FEATURE, STEEL BLITZ, WHY THE MAIN DPS CLASS VERSION IS WORST? THE SAME QUESTION COME ABOUT WEAPON MASTER.
cw vs gwf in tank. NO MIMIMI, FACTS. PROVES. THE REALITY
why cw, A RANGE CLASS, that DONT NEED fight so close and dont is a atwill focused have better survive tools than a single class that dont have dodge and IS A SECUNDARY TANK?
nerf cw dont will help now (too late... again. you choose, again, destroy even more the game than fix this class before to launch a new one.), so... WORK IN THE BASE OF GWF. YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT GWFS IN PVE. THIS IS ABOUT FACTS. NUMBERS. REALITY.
in facts, months ago i say "nerf ls dont will balance pve" and after that, curves will be a massive problem of gwf, and after that, most part of gwf players dont will be able to reach lvl 70. now i said what you need to do to MAYBE turn the gwf life less pathetic to THIS MODULE, not the m7 when the problems will change. DONT THINK, DO! i know what are i talk about, my good lord...
in fact, since m3 i said, in the next modules, gwf will be dead, but lets forget
Yeah, in all honesty i was thinking about a way to make sprint let the gwf gain more determination if used well.
It's just that testing destroyer in wod, 46k hp, lvl 60, reinforced avatar of war, i noticed that if you go unstoppable and stop to, well, attack to gain stacks, vs normal grups of mobs, well, you die cause you still take a lot of damage during unstoppable.
As shown above, current unstoppable base level is useless in solo pve to survive. CW shield on tab works a lot better and that's absurd.
In pvp it's the same. You go unstoppable, you still get a ton of damage with all the piercing damage and debuffs.
Long story short, dr from unstoppable as it is, will be almost uneffective in module 6, if you ask me. The damage seems fine, but we're made of thin paper...
Now i'd understand if it was group content where mobs are cced and you are protected.
But struggling to survive in solo content cause even when we go unstoppable, we can't stop running around or the group of mobs we face still kills us?
Challenge is: i have to hit-run and select the damage i take to build determination or i get killed. Then i go unstoppable, go all out in attack, then back to careful hit-run.
Now, from my tests, it's: hit-run, go unstoppable, hit-run or you die.
Unstoppable must grant in pve solo content and pvp, a strong enough degree of protection. Right now, it doesn't. Basically, until you get a capstone, it does nothing. Not enough protection, can't stop to take advantage of the increased at-will speed. We can run faster, but we can't fight in melee.
Unstoppable must grant a solid mitigation to allow the melee fighter to actually go all-out in attack and tank the damage from solo content and pvp. Going unstoppable more does not solve the issue since unstoppable at base level does not provide enough protection in my opinion.
Now i understand destroyer is a DPS path, but it's a melee fighter that cannot fight in a brawl but has to run from the enemy non-stop. Turns big and red and...dies.
Capstones add useful buffs but that means that until you get to 70, your class mechanic provides nothing to really help you.
Take a CW. Make it melee and with less cc. Take away shield on tab.
Now you have gwf in module 6.
If unstoppable is meant to provide other tools and little protection, then turn sprint in a full cc-DPS immunity.
Else, you have a melee fighter class that goes down way too fast, taking tons of damage in any situation (sprinting, normal or unstoppable) with insufficient tools to mitigate incoming DPS.
Could not agree more.
From my tests, same experience. Devs, look at that video. That's gwf in solo content.
Lacks survivability for a melee class. Look at damage taken during unstoppable. It's still huge, expecially considering a gwf fights in melee range surrounded by mobs.
Plus, i'm quite disappointed how the new powers are...ranged??
We're a melee class. We should fight melee. Are you trying to turn us into a poverty version of a CW but less survivable?
summary:that video show a poor class - the over nerfed good damage dont justify this class being so poor in general - and that is worst now, internally and externally.
but the devs are happy...
speak about pve/solo. or buff the damage again and giveme dodges (or parryng/block), or do a complete work, atwill by atwill, encounter by encounter, class feature by class feature, daily by daily, feat by feat.
down the damage of monsters and fix the m4/m5 buffed classes will work too, but god know that will not happen.
Also, even the DPS path (destroyer) works building damage slowly AFTER taking damage. Now, if you keep it as squishy as paper, you pretty much make the very same mechanic work AGAINST the fighter.
"I force you to take damage to deal damage, but i make you also unable to survive more than few hits".
"You are a melee fighter who fights inside packs of mobs. But, uhm, well, if they hit you, you die in few hits"
Devs, you either give us heavy DPS straight away so we hit and run all the time, or you give us the tools to tank/ absorb damage to then slowly build-up our damage buffs.
Also, 80% DR on sentinel with little damage, when it can get pierced and debuffed, oneshotted by SE exc... does NOT make the path "tanky". Just barely more survivable in PvE, still easily killed in PvP.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I was thinking about, why do we not degrees the 400 DEF=1%DR for GWF "Especially.
like 250DEF=1%DR or 300DEF=1%DR at least.
we are a melee class with no dodges,
how is it possible that a CW with only 1k DEF survive longer than a gwf with 3k+Def ??
it's simply because of the constantly dodge,
How does a Fight work ??
GWF must accept hurts at first, before he actually can start attacking.
all Ranged (+TR) classes throwing 2-3 free encounters or straight a Daily at first.
Before gwfs Turn, than we can beginnen to start attacking,
and than is probably too late for us, we lost already a lot of HP.
If we have luck to survive than with a very low HP otherwise we are already dead.
(btw TR is not a pure/ Real melee, he's more hybrid Ranged.
TR got a lot of distance skil,cload,path,impact etc. Currently theres only GWF/GF as melee class,
i just want to clarity.)
In place of the planned buffs:
- Keep stuns 3s non deflectable
- Unstoppable DR rework
When going unstoppable, the GWF gain 30% additional DR and 30% temporary HP (15% in PvP with Healing Depression). This DR cannot be pierced or debuffed, and the HPs stay after unstoppable and are buffed by bonus damage. When struck by a monster during unstoppable, the GWF gain 10% determination and 15% temporary, "normal" DR for a max of 30% temporary DR. This temporary buffs disappear after Unstoppable wears out.
The idea is to give unstoppable a solid, basic, but not OP mitigation for PvP, then make hits during Unstoppable "buff" him in PvE so that the GWF can fight in melee range without dying in few hits by solo content mobs. This way in PvE the warrior is able to tank a bit more cause in few hits his DR will be maxed during unstoppable and unstoppable will be extended a bit.
In PvP not-pierceable DR will solve the SE-oneshotting issues hopefully, while giving to destroyer enough survivability to build up stacks.
Sentinel capstone: 80% DR straight from unstoppable, and Unstoppable DR cannot be pierced or debuffed and instead of temporary DR, when hit by monsters or players during unstoppable, the GWF gain 2% of total HPs as temporary HP for a max of 10% temporary HP. These HPs disappear after Unstoppable wears out.
Restoring strike damage is increased by 30%.
Destroyer capstone: when dealing damage during unstoppable you gain 5% determination
Numbers can be changed but the basic idea is to increase PvE tankyness a lot (needed) as a base, while increasing PvP survivability a bit.
Pretty much destroyers would survive a bit more in PvP to build up damage, sentinels will have a bit more single target DPS but still behind DPS classes/ builds, and a MASSIVE boost to protection (80% unpierceable/ undebuffable DR during unstoppable) to make up for the loss of intimidation.
This way you have viable DPS melee warriors and tanky survivability builds.
Instigator capstone: you gain 10% more damage, plus when hit you gain 10% damage and 5% shorter cooldowns, stacks up to 40% damage (4 stacks) and 30% cooldown reduction (6 stacks).
i agree ...
what scares me is this: most of the offensive buffs we request over the last modules were given, some even unnecessary,
in the t"emporary hp week", the class was very close to being A+++.
*in this time, just need determination gain equal for all trees, work in instigators, BEST OPTIONS to replace ibs, better arp, and done! (pve).
a change in the general rules of the game and the whole class collapses. gwf is very, very inconsistent.
just think about the capstone of the instigator. imagine how much damage he need take in pve/solo to acquire and sustain the stacks. this tree are closed.
This.
Unlike us, the foes have no stacks, no delays, no feats that *may* proc but usually don't. They kill us right here, right now.
Feedback:
Iron Vanguard: Threatening Rush: remove charges (for PVE maybe?);
Swordmaster: refund old Weapon Master's Strike (animation cancelling).
Dead🔪Yeah this is a large part of our issue.
Honestly id rather them remove ALL stacking and just give each feat a chance to proc the FULL buff for X duration. Im sure on a DPS "calculation" you could scale this easily to be the same as it is right now, but this would DRASTICALLY help PVP.
What i dont understand is why we dont do something like this:
Destroyer: You gain +9% damage for 4 seconds after attacking more than 3 targets with a single attack (removed stacking). Additional ranks: +9% damage, +9% damage. (SAME overall damage, same 'uptime' effect but REMOVED stacking.
Thus this removes stacking completely which frankly will NOT affect PVE DPS AT ALL since its VERY easy to get stacks in PVE. But this VERY VERY MUCH increases the PVP benefits.
THEN:
Focused Destroyer: Destroyer now has a chance (up to 25% - same as now) to apply after attacking any number of targets. Additionally, Destroyer grants you an extra: 2/4/6/8/10% damage.
Overall this makes NO difference in PVE, it actually SLIGHTLY lowers the overall damage we gain. BUT! requires NO stacking. Its a flat 4 second buff on ANY attack.
This seems the MOST logical to me.
SOLUTION:
Instigator's Vengeance: Increase your damage by 50% for 6 seconds after you are struck in combat.
- NO stacking, requires you to be hit. Much better uptime for both solo-play, PVP, and PVE. Much more reliable to get up and easier to keep up.
PROBLEM:
Destroyer Capstone, requires Unstoppable to access. Also requires stacking IN unstoppable which takes a significant build up period.
SOLUTION:
Destroyer's Purpose: You now gain determination by dealing damage. Also, increases your encounter power damage by 10% in Unstoppable.
- Each time you attack, gain a stack of Destroyers Purpose (max of 10). Each stack increases your damage by 5%. Each stack lasts 25 seconds.
Basically the ONLY changes are:
- Removed Ustoppable requirement.
- Each stack has its OWN duration, they do NOT refresh themselves. This would act much like Negation Enchant does today.
OVERALL: NO difference in PVE damage, better access to damage in PVP without making it OP.
gwf should over dps all classes, including sws. why? because is melee glass cannon w/o dodge, so, more exposed.
the solution for stacks is simple: remove that and put in the base (50% damage buff).for capstone, instigators will reflect the incoming damage+your damage bonus (15 secs cooldown). this is a true vengeance. for destroyer you can over buff the encounter bonus during unstoppable.
put grand fissure in line of flourish damage at least. flourish need have the range back+damage buff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmJRFzdoMvkpoint
the rest, take all the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> encounters and give stacks. determination by damage dealer for all trees. more dr during sprint. put Wrathful Determination bonus in destroyer line. now, maybe, i will have some fun and not only the devs.
IT would be nice if you looked at some other aoe skills as well, but Ill take one step in the right direction. We should be able to load out different powers for different circumstances, just like the CW/TR does. This has always been a fairly week point on this class and should be looked at before release.
the most important class of the game (you can love or hate; antagonism have your power) still being nerfed when the time is to overbuff this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. "but the devs are happy". well, less 9 now.
I kinda liked hidden daggers lol but anyways yes this on grand fissure its too hard to hit with being narrow with a long cast time and the AI's tendancy to want to flank you I figured that was why it hit so hard but nope they want it a 3k so it will be relegated to those powers no one uses like reaping strike
front line surge even nerfed hits harder faster has a bigger AoE and prones enemies for an intterupt instead of just a dinky slow
Either way HD is a great pve skill. the damage buff it gives, and the 3 charges as well as it's overall damage make it better then any other encounter GWF have other then IBS
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!