no dude you dont know what you are talking about.
with new smoke bomb you daze everything while duelist of your enemy.
it's so **** good that you even start to accept stealth depletion.
In pvp im not that happy.
we get one shotted every 2 sec...really... it's fun from being fun but i hope you listening to our concerns about cooldowns and survivabilities.
hell if even kweassa tends to agree, the problem is far evident.
Smoke Bomb is probably gonna get nerfed, its like a mini Oppressive Force and TR is mainly supposed to be single target damage. I would rather it stay the way it is now though.
I Dont know why ya all care that pve tr is better (yes it is) but are you r******edd to run the same 10 dungeons over and over again ??
BTW no tr can do more dps than any cw or sw even RIGHT AFTER THE REWORK so again... I WANT TO THANK THE 10% OF THE TRS FOR THEIR FEEDBACK , WE 'LL TALK AGAIN IN 2 WEEKS.BTW >>REALLY TR IS AN AOE CLASS NOW??? REALLY??? THAT MAKES YOU HAPPY??
you cant have the right single target without breaking pvp.
this is why executioner is kinda a joke.
yes it makes me happier than yesterday
and news at 20: we are the worst class in pvp since mod 3
basically we have now a perfect compromise between single target and aoe which is dished out in roguish way. it's the most funnier thing i ever played after a trapper HR.
PVE is perfect now with that buff ! PERFECT ! scoundrel get a +25% damage on it, executioner a 25% more damages for all enemies below 70% hp, saboteur a refill of stealth. PERFECT ! NO OTHER WORDS.
BUT Please...really....keep all the cooldowns down 15 sec just please.
hard buff survivability out of stealth and for me we are done.
then performances would be based on skill and not on overpowered things or mechanics.
just for the note: really underperforming skill are impact shot, shocking execution, shadow strike could use a faster animation.
You guys did a great job and I know its not easy task to do all of this so thank you and hope to see more improvement.
And I would like to add the following that needs attention:
*Stat Designneeds improvement *Sneak Attackgives huge bonus movement speed out of stealth and half value when in stealth. Rogues have alot of stealth base meaning those are dead when out of stealth. *Whisperknife: Razor ActionI think this needs rework like a successful deflect restores % of stamina and increase in deflect chance by 2%(+2% per rank) *Whisperknife: Advantageous PositionThe 20% reduction in range damage is not enough to keep rogues alive with the current damage output of range class most especially CW, further improving it to 50-70% will be fine considering its duration and only for range damage. *Master Infiltrator: Gloaming CutIts hard to land in PVP with its current slow activation 8Shadow StrikeIts very slow and in PVP every second is important for rogues to survive. The reduced CD per rank and a slight daze even out stealth would be nice. *StealthThe regeneration when the meter is empty is very important to us, a simple DOT can ruin our mechanic stopping it from being refilled due to this we rely too much with Shadow Strike which has poor damage long cooldown and slow activation could you please put more attention to this.
Smoke Bomb is probably gonna get nerfed, its like a mini Oppressive Force and TR is mainly supposed to be single target damage. I would rather it stay the way it is now though.
Another hypocrite making propaganda. CW has more single target dmg, more aoe, more control more survivability and you are just another from plague of anti TR's.
Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools) Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion) Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
Another hypocrite making propaganda. CW has more single target dmg, more aoe, more control more survivability and you are just another from plague of anti TR's.
it's not different from icy terrain.... just a bigger radius but less up time
everything s gonna get nerfed not cause of the pve , pve was never any reason to cause any nerf
PVP WAS THE REASON
Reason of nerfs was before TR are not defending their class, they support nerfs and suggest them like you just did. I have never ever seen nerf thread in CW supported by them when they are soo ** that it's out of imagination.
Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools) Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion) Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
Smoke Bomb is probably gonna get nerfed, its like a mini Oppressive Force and TR is mainly supposed to be single target damage. I would rather it stay the way it is now though.
I do not know why these people are here, CW is on the top of food chain what else do you want to prove? dont you want to have a fair game with other class? I assure you the moment MOD 5 comes to live I will make a TR build to screw every last one of your kind and the only game you will enjoy are premade matches in dominion with 17k+ GS team.
Seems you all got offended by my previous statement, I guess I should have worded that properly. I FEEL like it will get nerfed, you all say I am anti-TR, you can clearly see I said I would rather it stay the same. My main character is a TR btw. I don't WANT it to get nerfed, its a feeling, mainly because I feel its a very good skill and with how the TR has been treated before...
Seems you all got offended by my previous statement, I guess I should have worded that properly. I FEEL like it will get nerfed, you all say I am anti-TR, you can clearly see I said I would rather it stay the same. My main character is a TR btw. I don't WANT it to get nerfed, its a feeling, mainly because I feel its a very good skill and with how the TR has been treated before...
If TR should be nerf then they should start with CW and HR.
Reason of nerfs was before TR are not defending their class, they support nerfs and suggest them like you just did. I have never ever seen nerf thread in CW supported by them when they are soo ** that it's out of imagination.
agreed. there are even some whisperknives who never fail to encourage nerfing master infiltrators instead of just buffing their paragon. but the real problem is this entire community all enjoy making nerf threads targetted at rogues. some even did it as a joke, thread passed a dozen pages, and eventually the devs caved to multiple threads about it. quite frankly, it's better to not argue against it and hope the threads die out within a few pages so the devs won't notice.
it's not different from icy terrain.... just a bigger radius but less up time
smoke bomb is inferior to icy terrain though. both wizard paragons proc extra damage on top of it which equals to more damage and 1 paragon can boost group dps by 15% that way. regardless, highly-geared wizards just melt entire groups quick enough to not care......including the barbarian ambush in shores of tuern and without getting hit once.
1.Gloaming Cut: make it faster (30-40%? like with DF) OR revert damage OR both
That way it will be rewarding to either aim and hit well or stick on target with constant hitting
2. Still GC: Change sneaky stabber to 4/8/12/16/20% (5/10/15/20/25%?) stealth granted AND make GC drain stealth (with this feat it`ll be +5% (10?) per hit)
BUT it require 1. Otherwise it`s just a nerf that shouldn`t be.
3. If not 2, change sneaky stabber to grant 2/4/6/8/10% (1/2/3/4/5?) stealth from ANY attack (or any at-will at least) grant GC MUCH HIGHER dmg and make GC deplete stealth. That way TRs WILL HAVE TO go out from stealth BUT will be able to go into stealth as fast. (DF flurry deplete your stealth? Well, the 2nd part of flurry will also grant it back )
Sneaky stabber might be in 3rd tier feat, not 2nd... but if not, hey, that would help all other TRs too if they would take 2 feats in sab.
PS: + it would make TRs fight instead of running and hiding. If you deal dmg out of stealth you would be rewarded, If you deal dmg IN stealth, you drain it by that 5/10%, If you troll in pvp and run to restore stealth, it`ll take longer time than fighting.
PS2: FIX THE STATS, now i don`t want to take any point in dex, while it`s main TR stat and that crazy! (good suggestions in other posts in this topic. I like the one with +% movement)
Here an example of pve set up.
heroic encounter, tower of auril
Prospector:
it took about 14 min
i would have liked to use blitz and duelist more but this is the only way to solo the heroic encounter without dying... so forgive me XD
14mins not too shabby there, rayr. Me, I've filmed one of the easier ones, the corrupted wolves thing. It took me around 9 mins I think -- Smoke Bomb really made a difference.
I think our "selling point" in PvE can be AoE damage assistance + harassment + "tanking".. sorta 'garbage man' to take out the trash mobs or keep them occupied when a lot of them are around.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Feedback
DEX attribute is archaic. TR don't need more crit chance, because they have 100% critic in stealth and also because from all stats this critic chance is the least reliable. Damage % increased should be on dexterity. HR and CW has dmg % improved on their main attribute.
Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools) Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion) Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
Feedback
DEX attribute is archaic. TR don't need more crit chance, because they have 100% critic in stealth and also because from all stats this critic chance is the least reliable. Damage % increased should be on dexterity. HR and CW has dmg % improved on their main attribute.
I'm not exactly against it, but I'm kinda wondering why this needs to go forth.
Because, as it is, this actually makes it easier to manage/build stats for a TR since now, he can probably dump the INT and DEX stats, have it around maybe 17~20 with natural increase, and then move all his stats to CON and CHA -- since most of the damage factor is provided to you with the auto-crit from stealth, and you have the leisure of putting more stat points to CON for HP and CHA for deflect.
Previously, you'd have had to spread it all around CON, CHA, DEX, or just give up deflection and go for CON/DEX... or in many cases, give up even dex and go CON/INT for PvP purposes.
Now, with the "old perma" type of playing being less important, all TRs can have more HP and deflect without a big loss to his damage.
...
Do we really need the DEX?
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Secondary ability score have less benefits, other class have armor penetration and damage bonus in CON which makes them durable and able to dish more damage. CW have damage bonus and Recharge Speed in INT which is a deadly combination in one ability score (see how unfair?) Plus CHA gives them crit and combat advatage (OP huh? WhyTR dont have Action Point gain or Armor Pen in INT or CON?They need to realign our Ability Scores
I'm not exactly against it, but I'm kinda wondering why this needs to go forth.
Because, as it is, this actually makes it easier to manage/build stats for a TR since now, he can probably dump the INT and DEX stats, have it around maybe 17~20 with natural increase, and then move all his stats to CON and CHA -- since most of the damage factor is provided to you with the auto-crit from stealth, and you have the leisure of putting more stat points to CON for HP and CHA for deflect.
Previously, you'd have had to spread it all around CON, CHA, DEX, or just give up deflection and go for CON/DEX... or in many cases, give up even dex and go CON/INT for PvP purposes.
Now, with the "old perma" type of playing being less important, all TRs can have more HP and deflect without a big loss to his damage.
...
Do we really need the DEX?
Look for TR rolling stats that dex is very low is very hard. So we will still have more dex than we want to. That is why it's better when it gives us something that is helpful.
Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools) Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion) Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
I'm not exactly against it, but I'm kinda wondering why this needs to go forth.
Because, as it is, this actually makes it easier to manage/build stats for a TR since now, he can probably dump the INT and DEX stats, have it around maybe 17~20 with natural increase, and then move all his stats to CON and CHA -- since most of the damage factor is provided to you with the auto-crit from stealth, and you have the leisure of putting more stat points to CON for HP and CHA for deflect.
Previously, you'd have had to spread it all around CON, CHA, DEX, or just give up deflection and go for CON/DEX... or in many cases, give up even dex and go CON/INT for PvP purposes.
Now, with the "old perma" type of playing being less important, all TRs can have more HP and deflect without a big loss to his damage.
...
Do we really need the DEX?
I am just a cheap *******, honestly, and I hate to have to purchase a race reroll to fix my stats for the new setup. Also I was an idiot with a dex belt and I will have to replace that too (but I may have anyways). Also the stat rolls bias points towards what it thinks is the primary (dex) and we will lose more of our 'true' primary (char/con/str) because of it. That is the only issues with me and I suppose they are minor.
I am just a cheap *******, honestly, and I hate to have to purchase a race reroll to fix my stats for the new setup. Also I was an idiot with a dex belt and I will have to replace that too (but I may have anyways). Also the stat rolls bias points towards what it thinks is the primary (dex) and we will lose more of our 'true' primary (char/con/str) because of it. That is the only issues with me and I suppose they are minor.
dex never was and never will be our main stat...
even in this module playing with more than 20 dex is just stupid.
because
1) you have much greater return from raw power ( str ), lowering cds ( int ).
2) because RNG is streaky....which means you will always either crit or not crit at all
dex never was and never will be our main stat...
even in this module playing with more than 20 dex is just stupid.
because
1) you have much greater return from raw power ( str ), lowering cds ( int ).
2) because RNG is streaky....which means you will always either crit or not crit at all
I agree here. I took dex back in the day and never altered it after I knew the truth of things. Since I looted a dex belt I wore it instead of selling it and getting a wiser belt. It was not a large loss as even though less damage than str it helped a bit on deflect and the crit was helpful with keeping the large crit bleed stacks set and I found that convenience valuable enough to justify my earlier ill informed choices.
For those of you concerned about our shift from single target to more AE damage you should realize that you are under the false assumption that the TR had the best single target damage to begin with. This is wrong, and even though the best thing the TR did was single target damage, the TR was not the best class at single target damage. On boss fights a GWF was heavily favored even though bleed came into effect it was not enough to compete with their %health based at will and IBS damage bonuses. HR also had superior damage as did CW (not from simply single target damage but they could do more damage to a single target in a given time but this could be from glyphs or who knows what). SW is odd as some seem to do poorly and I have seen some SW with 3k less GS pop off 50% more single target damage so I don't know what the deal is (I know TT is still bugged (700k crits anyone) but I have seen some insane damage come from hellfire too).
Comments
with new smoke bomb you daze everything while duelist of your enemy.
it's so **** good that you even start to accept stealth depletion.
In pvp im not that happy.
we get one shotted every 2 sec...really... it's fun from being fun but i hope you listening to our concerns about cooldowns and survivabilities.
hell if even kweassa tends to agree, the problem is far evident.
i will repeat now: PVE TR is now a thing !
BTW no tr can do more dps than any cw or sw even RIGHT AFTER THE REWORK so again... I WANT TO THANK THE 10% OF THE TRS FOR THEIR FEEDBACK , WE 'LL TALK AGAIN IN 2 WEEKS.BTW >>REALLY TR IS AN AOE CLASS NOW??? REALLY??? THAT MAKES YOU HAPPY??
PVP WAS THE REASON
this is why executioner is kinda a joke.
yes it makes me happier than yesterday
and news at 20: we are the worst class in pvp since mod 3
basically we have now a perfect compromise between single target and aoe which is dished out in roguish way. it's the most funnier thing i ever played after a trapper HR.
You guys did a great job and I know its not easy task to do all of this so thank you and hope to see more improvement.
And I would like to add the following that needs attention:
*Stat Design needs improvement
*Sneak Attack gives huge bonus movement speed out of stealth and half value when in stealth. Rogues have alot of stealth base meaning those are dead when out of stealth.
*Whisperknife: Razor Action I think this needs rework like a successful deflect restores % of stamina and increase in deflect chance by 2%(+2% per rank)
*Whisperknife: Advantageous Position The 20% reduction in range damage is not enough to keep rogues alive with the current damage output of range class most especially CW, further improving it to 50-70% will be fine considering its duration and only for range damage.
*Master Infiltrator: Gloaming Cut Its hard to land in PVP with its current slow activation
8Shadow Strike Its very slow and in PVP every second is important for rogues to survive. The reduced CD per rank and a slight daze even out stealth would be nice.
*Stealth The regeneration when the meter is empty is very important to us, a simple DOT can ruin our mechanic stopping it from being refilled due to this we rely too much with Shadow Strike which has poor damage long cooldown and slow activation could you please put more attention to this.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
it's not different from icy terrain.... just a bigger radius but less up time
Reason of nerfs was before TR are not defending their class, they support nerfs and suggest them like you just did. I have never ever seen nerf thread in CW supported by them when they are soo ** that it's out of imagination.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
I do not know why these people are here, CW is on the top of food chain what else do you want to prove? dont you want to have a fair game with other class? I assure you the moment MOD 5 comes to live I will make a TR build to screw every last one of your kind and the only game you will enjoy are premade matches in dominion with 17k+ GS team.
If TR should be nerf then they should start with CW and HR.
Its crab mentality as usual they want to stay in power doesnt want the new TR from getting a equal foot hold with other class.
agreed. there are even some whisperknives who never fail to encourage nerfing master infiltrators instead of just buffing their paragon. but the real problem is this entire community all enjoy making nerf threads targetted at rogues. some even did it as a joke, thread passed a dozen pages, and eventually the devs caved to multiple threads about it. quite frankly, it's better to not argue against it and hope the threads die out within a few pages so the devs won't notice.
smoke bomb is inferior to icy terrain though. both wizard paragons proc extra damage on top of it which equals to more damage and 1 paragon can boost group dps by 15% that way. regardless, highly-geared wizards just melt entire groups quick enough to not care......including the barbarian ambush in shores of tuern and without getting hit once.
heroic encounter, tower of auril
Prospects:
took me 14 min
i m happy.
That way it will be rewarding to either aim and hit well or stick on target with constant hitting
2. Still GC: Change sneaky stabber to 4/8/12/16/20% (5/10/15/20/25%?) stealth granted AND make GC drain stealth (with this feat it`ll be +5% (10?) per hit)
BUT it require 1. Otherwise it`s just a nerf that shouldn`t be.
3. If not 2, change sneaky stabber to grant 2/4/6/8/10% (1/2/3/4/5?) stealth from ANY attack (or any at-will at least) grant GC MUCH HIGHER dmg and make GC deplete stealth. That way TRs WILL HAVE TO go out from stealth BUT will be able to go into stealth as fast. (DF flurry deplete your stealth? Well, the 2nd part of flurry will also grant it back
Sneaky stabber might be in 3rd tier feat, not 2nd... but if not, hey, that would help all other TRs too if they would take 2 feats in sab.
PS: + it would make TRs fight instead of running and hiding. If you deal dmg out of stealth you would be rewarded, If you deal dmg IN stealth, you drain it by that 5/10%, If you troll in pvp and run to restore stealth, it`ll take longer time than fighting.
PS2: FIX THE STATS, now i don`t want to take any point in dex, while it`s main TR stat and that crazy! (good suggestions in other posts in this topic. I like the one with +% movement)
14mins not too shabby there, rayr. Me, I've filmed one of the easier ones, the corrupted wolves thing. It took me around 9 mins I think -- Smoke Bomb really made a difference.
I think our "selling point" in PvE can be AoE damage assistance + harassment + "tanking".. sorta 'garbage man' to take out the trash mobs or keep them occupied when a lot of them are around.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
DEX attribute is archaic. TR don't need more crit chance, because they have 100% critic in stealth and also because from all stats this critic chance is the least reliable. Damage % increased should be on dexterity. HR and CW has dmg % improved on their main attribute.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
I'm not exactly against it, but I'm kinda wondering why this needs to go forth.
Because, as it is, this actually makes it easier to manage/build stats for a TR since now, he can probably dump the INT and DEX stats, have it around maybe 17~20 with natural increase, and then move all his stats to CON and CHA -- since most of the damage factor is provided to you with the auto-crit from stealth, and you have the leisure of putting more stat points to CON for HP and CHA for deflect.
Previously, you'd have had to spread it all around CON, CHA, DEX, or just give up deflection and go for CON/DEX... or in many cases, give up even dex and go CON/INT for PvP purposes.
Now, with the "old perma" type of playing being less important, all TRs can have more HP and deflect without a big loss to his damage.
...
Do we really need the DEX?
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Look for TR rolling stats that dex is very low is very hard. So we will still have more dex than we want to. That is why it's better when it gives us something that is helpful.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
I am just a cheap *******, honestly, and I hate to have to purchase a race reroll to fix my stats for the new setup. Also I was an idiot with a dex belt and I will have to replace that too (but I may have anyways). Also the stat rolls bias points towards what it thinks is the primary (dex) and we will lose more of our 'true' primary (char/con/str) because of it. That is the only issues with me and I suppose they are minor.
dex never was and never will be our main stat...
even in this module playing with more than 20 dex is just stupid.
because
1) you have much greater return from raw power ( str ), lowering cds ( int ).
2) because RNG is streaky....which means you will always either crit or not crit at all
I agree here. I took dex back in the day and never altered it after I knew the truth of things. Since I looted a dex belt I wore it instead of selling it and getting a wiser belt. It was not a large loss as even though less damage than str it helped a bit on deflect and the crit was helpful with keeping the large crit bleed stacks set and I found that convenience valuable enough to justify my earlier ill informed choices.
Actually :
Statistic - Effect of Ability Score on stat per point over 10
Strength = Stamina Regeneration 1%, Damage bonus 1%, DoT resistance 1%
Constitution = Maximum Hit Points 2%
Dexterity = Critical Chance 1%, AoE Damage Resist 1%, Deflection chance 0.5%
Intelligence = Recharge Speed 1%
Wisdom = Control Bonus 1%, Control Resistance 1%
Charisma = Combat Advantage damage 1%, Companion stat bonus 1%, Deflection chance 1%
I think it should to be something as :
Statistic - Effect of Ability Score on stat per point over 10
Strength = Stamina Regeneration 1%, Damage bonus 1%, Run speed 1%
Constitution = Maximum Hit Points 2%,
Dexterity = Critical Chance 0.5%, Combat Advantage damage 1%, Deflection chance 2%
Intelligence = Recharge Speed 1%, Control Resistance 0.5%,
Wisdom = Control resistance 0.5%, Control Bonus 0.5%
Charisma = Control Bonus 1%, Action point gain 0.5%, Companion stat bonus 1%