Greater Plague Fire - With our attack speed, encounters and everything it is VERY difficult to keep all three stacks on. Granted in PVE you can manage to pull it off, but I recommend Terror over this for damage purposes, unless you are trying to get rampaging madness, in which GPF is good, but you'd get more damage out of a lightning or something along those lines as well as the stacks.
actually Threatening Rush gives you an immediate 2 stacks of GPF on hit and if you Threatening rush or encounter or cleave you now are at full stacks it's actually pretty easy to upkeep for vanguards anyway. however i am running a reflect build minus briartwine but that may change come mod 4 and if they increase guarded assault or if the ever fix it to procing weapon enchants(which it should) but yeah it does help upkeep madness.
sucks theres only 3 good feats in the conqueror tree improved cleave, combat super, and the capstone the rest are meh imo, i prefer protector but theres not much going on there and i usually skip the capstone since it's the worst
Meh, well there is a pretty cool feat combo I like using. the temp hp when crit and the 15% bonus damage with temp hp. You'd be surprised how often you can sneak that in there (I know, that is what she said) - but I feel like it procs quite a bit. But yeah, I just meant in a pvp as far as my experience goes, I am not constantly swinging as that would mean I am wide open to get flurried, ibs'd that sorta thing. Sure, on a DC you can have those 3 stacks up all day lol.
- It is possible, but not very likely to be successful against a hard hitter for very long. so the trade off is, higher defense debuf for short periods of time, or a smaller defense debuf for a longer time... OR - Feytouch for a damage debuf and a damage gain ?
- I'm surprised you PVE guys aren't going in on Feytouch + Enforced Threat proc'ing on all those monsters for that many stacks.
hmm true i proabably will be switching to swordmaster come mod 4 havent decided yet, however i do like having plague for dismounting procing teneberous the debuff of course and on rare times pulling bad TR's out of stealth, also havent really experimentented with fey but for me the downside to fey in pvp was it only works off Your encounter powers and can only happen once every 20 seconds.
Meh, well there is a pretty cool feat combo I like using. the temp hp when crit and the 15% bonus damage with temp hp. You'd be surprised how often you can sneak that in there (I know, that is what she said) - but I feel like it procs quite a bit. But yeah, I just meant in a pvp as far as my experience goes, I am not constantly swinging as that would mean I am wide open to get flurried, ibs'd that sorta thing. Sure, on a DC you can have those 3 stacks up all day lol.
- It is possible, but not very likely to be successful against a hard hitter for very long. so the trade off is, higher defense debuf for short periods of time, or a smaller defense debuf for a longer time... OR - Feytouch for a damage debuf and a damage gain ?
- I'm surprised you PVE guys aren't going in on Feytouch + Enforced Threat proc'ing on all those monsters for that many stacks.
Take measure (feat), and Wrathful warrior (feat), they work pretty good not the best though in my opinion, did use them for a little while. Best combo I have found Trample the fallen, Tab>mark and Tide of Iron.
Trample the Fallen gives +15% damage increase against any foe under control power, both tab>mark and tide of iron are control powers, so not only are you reducing their def but gaining +15% damage against them to boot.
Exactly, add that to those two feats = 30% damage boost - but again it isn't all the time, but after a few massive shots, I chose that over the AP gain below half life
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Sentinel were keeping the original unstoppable DR, so I don't know how that will change anything (heck, they currently get 50-100% DR because they didn't adjust the 5x unstoppable DR capstone to adjust for the 10-20% amount).
No they dont. DR is capped at 80% no matter where it comes from.
I never understand why people have such a hard time understanding the old capstone... If you have 10k power, only HALF of that power is from the capstone... 10k power = about 59% damage boost, again HALF of which (28.5%) is from the capstone... So the effect to a 10k power GF is the +25% dmg boost is only about 3% less tooltip damage than the old RA... BUT to compensate you get 10% crit too... Which if you have a base of 75% crit severity means a 7.5% dps boost.
A net GAIN of about 3%.
Also as its been highlighted here many times, not only do our powers have higher caps like ET they cause more threat AND some even "hard taunt" too. Meaning it will be VERY easy to get and maintain 5stacks.
The only players that may see a small decrease in performance are PVE power stacked GFs who significantly putgear content and thus dont have to block. Take a proper GS GF into CN and he will HAVE to block and will lose RA bonus... Ontop of that his old RA bonus probably wasnt a 10kpower score so its that much worse for him....
For everyone else this opens more gear choices more stat choices more play styles and all around a buff the class needed!
You forget, that the crit damage is increased by the damage too. So it's more as 7.5% for the 10% crit chance.
Fresh, I know I am very frustrated also. I have done the math with those power to damage formulas posted online, and they do not come close damage wise to what we can generate currently on live.
I agree if they revert us to the old(current) on live it may be putting us right back where we were, BUT if they then buffed the shield when used(raised) to raise the DR like it should have been that's a plus.
I agree the devs have been over loaded with trying to get all the mods out in a timely manner, that they sorta forgot about the GF class. If the buffs and adjustments had come in a timely manner, hey we wouldn't be here discussing it now.
It is a touchy thing trying to buff the class without favoring PvP over Pve or vice versa, my concern is for the entire class. That's why I posted my thoughts and humble opinions in my preceding post, to help the entire class not just one aspect of the class over the other.
Lets keep it this way guy, I enjoy chatting with you, and we both want what is best for the class as a whole. You have great ideas and are really trying to test the changes on the test server and report them here.
Please post a formula, which show that the current on live server conquerer capstone is better as the new one on PTS conquerer capstone. Independent of the bug with only 1 damage buff stack and you get hitted/not get hitted.
Staggering challenge is my second most favored feat, it increases the stock power of griffons wraith with each step, then upon second strike of GW in combat on same foe increases damage by 20%, a lot of people were confused by this skills description.
I know GW is too slow for you PvP guys but in Pve it hits hard almost as hard as anvil sometimes.
I use GW in pvp all the time currently I find it great to have 5 encounters to use instead of 3 though the cd is not great the mini stun on any class trying to shift away helps to keep them there that much longer.
No they dont. DR is capped at 80% no matter where it comes from.
I know its capped, but my point was they hit the 80% cap without even trying to with how the sentinel capstone works at the moment.
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epclipseingmoonMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
I see this class is now dead and I'm glad I have a GWF that I'm going to spec sentinal for a constant 80% dr because hey thats a real tank not this sad excuse of one and also I can use encounters and dailies so I don't think gfs will ever be needed now...
Just make both fighter classes the same spec or we will never have ballence. may as well give the gf guarded unstoppable or something like that that you can use the shield like skills like front line serge behind block and stuff... look at the animation afterall....
PVP will be unballenced till both classes become almost the same.
I see this class is now dead and I'm glad I have a GWF that I'm going to spec sentinal for a constant 80% dr because hey thats a real tank not this sad excuse of one and also I can use encounters and dailies so I don't think gfs will ever be needed now...
Just make both fighter classes the same spec or we will never have ballence. may as well give the gf guarded unstoppable or something like that that you can use the shield like skills like front line serge behind block and stuff... look at the animation afterall....
PVP will be unballenced till both classes become almost the same.
Not really sure how that is relevant, but feel free to get on your GWF, pad and pen on hand and let me give you a few lessons boiiiiii. I'm just kidding, but seriously, you will get destroyed by any halfway competent GF.
Ps. Roar More.
Edit: I think that came off aggressive, and needed much more sarcasm, HOWEVER - I was standing up for the GF's lol
epclipseingmoonMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
my problem here is that the GWF should never be able to tank as well as a GF and yet they can do both tank and dps while we for some reason we can only tank.
Why can't you make a gf be able to be a glass cannon like a destroyer gwf if it wants to be?
in pvp we may be op compaired to the gwf but we are useless compaired to gwfs in t2 runs...
I want to set some matters straight, I do not PvP personnel choice (been there done that don't need it in my entertainment.)
IMHO the following are what is needed:
1. Increase the threat power of mark and threat, not a major overhaul needed.
2. Increase the DR of the shield when it is utilized (RAISED) many have stated the old timer was ok.
3. Do not change block to stamina, why re create the wheel when it has been working for over a year, also when only a few tweeks are needed.
4. Change two of the armor sets pref T2.5 to extreme offensive nature, currently only high general and grand regent are offensive nature but mild when compared to the GWF's sets.
5. Change two of the weapon sets pref T2.5 to offensive nature, currently every one is defensive nature esp the weapon/shield bonus.
6. Raise the damage value of the GF's weapons, as it has been stated why are our weapons stat'd damage wise like a DC's.
7. Leave the conq tree as it is, this tree works.
8. Buff up the protector tree for those GF's who desire to protect/guard the parties/control the mobs.
9. Buff up the tac tree (same as above)
10. Give #8 & 9 defense buffs and defensive debuffs so that they can defend the parties and keep control of the mobs.
These changes could be made without a major overhaul, they have been done is many (countless) other MMO's, but it depends on the coding you all used when developing the game. I feel these changes would not only help the Pve crowd but also help the PvP crowd making it a win-win situation.
I am not trying to tell you dev's how to do your job( you are smarter then I am , I 'm just an old worn out ex-Marine), all I am trying to do is give you the opinion of a gamer with close to thirty years experience in gaming. Yes I started gaming on a souped up 286 with 512 megs of ram, hey at that time that was an insane gaming rig.
These changes will not favor either the PVP crowd nor the PvE crowd at the expense of the other. But it WILL enhance the entire class.
Yo, RED text is ONLY for reporting BUGS. Not for giving feedback....
Ok, i was in the test server and i got back, REALLY, AND I MEAN REAAAALLY ANGRY.
Cryptic guys, plz, go to a cave in the mountains and just get back when GF have ANY, AND I MEAN ANY chance to beat a GWF!!!
Seriously, is it THAT hard to make some test builds and actually try it?
and the conqueror STILL IS infinite % Better than the other 2 builds.
With conqueror at least i can do some damage against similar sentinel GWF before having a terrible death, around 25% damage.
With the other 2 trees GF dies with GWF still at full Health...
The worst part of it all is get rapped with guard own cause 20% of the GWF ROFLM damage is still enough to kill a GF in seconds.
So plz, make some builds and test it! it makes ZERO sense.
I understand the 20% dmg is still bugged so yes that's annoying but it will be fixed and i have been on the test shard a few times and beat every gwf so far. Our char is so much better than on live even with the bugs so i don't understand why your angry, just because we got a buff doesn't mean we will kill any gwf easy, they are still a strong class it is just more balanced between us now.
Also what path are you and what encounters do you use ? I had to test a few builds to find one more effective for mod 4 but i have one now and it works great a few options for heavy dmg and ways to survive well.
Crixus - PVP GF
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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epclipseingmoonMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
sot the 20% dmg is a buff? rofl go conq on live and you get 100% sure on preview you may get some crit but still we are worse off on preview.
sot the 20% dmg is a buff? rofl go conq on live and you get 100% sure on preview you may get some crit but still we are worse off on preview.
I could be wrong but I believe it is, I have 9800 power, so Reckless on live gives me 4900 power when full guard, my lunging strike with a broken guard is about 6500 damage with a full guard its 7800 damage.
Now lets add just 20% damage to my normal damage of 6500 +20% dmg = 7800! So not including the new reckless dmagae bonus just using the new mark I am pretty equal, then add in the reckless attacker 10% crit and another 20% damage is 6500 =40% damage = 9100 damage not including crit. My math could be off though...
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
0
elveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 336
sot the 20% dmg is a buff? rofl go conq on live and you get 100% sure on preview you may get some crit but still we are worse off on preview.
We are not really. The mark gives 20% damage AND combat advantage. Generally you are going to deal more damage on preview than on live now with the same GF if you mark the targets. The only problem is that you are required to get hit to trigger your RA.
I think it is has been like 20 pages since we've heard from Crush, so the guy has to be in the lab cooking up something. Let's just see what he is doing/does before we pull out the pitchforks.
If a Destoyer GWF is getting more immunities and damage mitigation , then its time that Swordmaster GF does the equivalent DPS to a Destroyer! Its ridiculous a DPS class is given that many free tools whilst we GFs struggle to get any...
If DPS can Tank then Tank should be allowed to DPS!
OMG yes thats what I'm saying!!
If a gwf can be speced to do both roles dps or tank then we should be able to too.
We see the sentinal gwfs out dpsing us conq gwf swordmaster tanks so much its sick.
Either nerf their tanking abilitys or make us be able to hit hard like a gwf.
I could be wrong but I believe it is, I have 9800 power, so Reckless on live gives me 4900 power when full guard, my lunging strike with a broken guard is about 6500 damage with a full guard its 7800 damage.
Now lets add just 20% damage to my normal damage of 6500 +20% dmg = 7800! So not including the new reckless dmagae bonus just using the new mark I am pretty equal, then add in the reckless attacker 10% crit and another 20% damage is 6500 =40% damage = 9100 damage not including crit. My math could be off though...
Those numbers include Wrathful warrior too ? If they do you'd be better off removing it, you'll get much clearer idea of your actual damage output
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I could be wrong but I believe it is, I have 9800 power, so Reckless on live gives me 4900 power when full guard, my lunging strike with a broken guard is about 6500 damage with a full guard its 7800 damage.
Now lets add just 20% damage to my normal damage of 6500 +20% dmg = 7800! So not including the new reckless dmagae bonus just using the new mark I am pretty equal, then add in the reckless attacker 10% crit and another 20% damage is 6500 =40% damage = 9100 damage not including crit. My math could be off though...
So I checked the math...
At 9800 power u should have a dmg bonus of 58% (that is true only if power gives the same amount of dmg, I calculated 1% of dmg which is = 168.8684 power, from my power 6417 = 38%) then RA gives u 4900 power = 29% dmg not to mention the incoming heal...
So if your lunging deals 7800 dmg RA gives u 2262 dmg. The new RA gives u 25% flat (no heal) +10% chance to crit (that dosen t mean u crit)
So I checked the math...
At 9800 power u should have a dmg bonus of 58% (that is true only if power gives the same amount of dmg, I calculated 1% of dmg which is = 168.8684 power, from my power 6417 = 38%) then RA gives u 4900 power = 29% dmg not to mention the incoming heal...
So if your lunging deals 7800 dmg RA gives u 2262 dmg. The new RA gives u 25% flat (no heal) +10% chance to crit (that dosen t mean u crit)
But, keep in mind thats doesn't diminish when my guard is lowered or broken. So up-time on RA should be better? I am not arguing for or against just sorting out speculations...
Crit as a GF is hard to build but I am at 22% so this RA will give me 32% crit for 10 seconds.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
here is the problem I like the old RA cause I don t always stay under the guard, I guard only the big hits and CC dmg with the new guard and the old RA (this is a good dream) i only stay 1-2 sec under guard max the rest is up to the DC, life steal, pots to heal me... so if the new RA adds 25% incoming heal or they change the guard so GF regenerates HP under guard it will be nicer...
Again - lets see what Crush is doing as he has been really quiet lately.
This is something we need to wait for as we have given feedback on the previous changes so lets see what he has in store next as the coming changes are to get block where it is supposed to be when 80% cannot be mitigated and we get our own dr on the remaining 20% that is not blocked. Plus there is the new RA where we only got a 5% boost instead of the 25%.
Looking forward to Tactician and Protector changes.
Distracting Shield paragon power is no good at 1/2/3%
I also still think Tide of Iron and Crushing Surge are utility skills. They deserve to be represented that way, not do extra damage. No one uses them anyway, they're novelty skills. There is no point in not simply catering to this.
I recently switched to swordmaster since that will be way better in mod 4 so i use tide instead of threatening rush and its a great skill, i don't spam it, i wait until i knock an enemy prone and get a hit in to debuff them or if i need some guard back fast.
Comments
actually Threatening Rush gives you an immediate 2 stacks of GPF on hit and if you Threatening rush or encounter or cleave you now are at full stacks it's actually pretty easy to upkeep for vanguards anyway. however i am running a reflect build minus briartwine but that may change come mod 4 and if they increase guarded assault or if the ever fix it to procing weapon enchants(which it should) but yeah it does help upkeep madness.
sucks theres only 3 good feats in the conqueror tree improved cleave, combat super, and the capstone the rest are meh imo, i prefer protector but theres not much going on there and i usually skip the capstone since it's the worst
- It is possible, but not very likely to be successful against a hard hitter for very long. so the trade off is, higher defense debuf for short periods of time, or a smaller defense debuf for a longer time... OR - Feytouch for a damage debuf and a damage gain
- I'm surprised you PVE guys aren't going in on Feytouch + Enforced Threat proc'ing on all those monsters for that many stacks.
Take measure (feat), and Wrathful warrior (feat), they work pretty good not the best though in my opinion, did use them for a little while. Best combo I have found Trample the fallen, Tab>mark and Tide of Iron.
Trample the Fallen gives +15% damage increase against any foe under control power, both tab>mark and tide of iron are control powers, so not only are you reducing their def but gaining +15% damage against them to boot.
No they dont. DR is capped at 80% no matter where it comes from.
You forget, that the crit damage is increased by the damage too. So it's more as 7.5% for the 10% crit chance.
Please post a formula, which show that the current on live server conquerer capstone is better as the new one on PTS conquerer capstone. Independent of the bug with only 1 damage buff stack and you get hitted/not get hitted.
I know GW is too slow for you PvP guys but in Pve it hits hard almost as hard as anvil sometimes.
I know its capped, but my point was they hit the 80% cap without even trying to with how the sentinel capstone works at the moment.
Just make both fighter classes the same spec or we will never have ballence. may as well give the gf guarded unstoppable or something like that that you can use the shield like skills like front line serge behind block and stuff... look at the animation afterall....
PVP will be unballenced till both classes become almost the same.
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
Not really sure how that is relevant, but feel free to get on your GWF, pad and pen on hand and let me give you a few lessons boiiiiii. I'm just kidding, but seriously, you will get destroyed by any halfway competent GF.
Ps. Roar More.
Edit: I think that came off aggressive, and needed much more sarcasm, HOWEVER - I was standing up for the GF's lol
Why can't you make a gf be able to be a glass cannon like a destroyer gwf if it wants to be?
in pvp we may be op compaired to the gwf but we are useless compaired to gwfs in t2 runs...
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
Yo, RED text is ONLY for reporting BUGS. Not for giving feedback....
I understand the 20% dmg is still bugged so yes that's annoying but it will be fixed and i have been on the test shard a few times and beat every gwf so far. Our char is so much better than on live even with the bugs so i don't understand why your angry, just because we got a buff doesn't mean we will kill any gwf easy, they are still a strong class it is just more balanced between us now.
Also what path are you and what encounters do you use ? I had to test a few builds to find one more effective for mod 4 but i have one now and it works great a few options for heavy dmg and ways to survive well.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
I could be wrong but I believe it is, I have 9800 power, so Reckless on live gives me 4900 power when full guard, my lunging strike with a broken guard is about 6500 damage with a full guard its 7800 damage.
Now lets add just 20% damage to my normal damage of 6500 +20% dmg = 7800! So not including the new reckless dmagae bonus just using the new mark I am pretty equal, then add in the reckless attacker 10% crit and another 20% damage is 6500 =40% damage = 9100 damage not including crit. My math could be off though...
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
We are not really. The mark gives 20% damage AND combat advantage. Generally you are going to deal more damage on preview than on live now with the same GF if you mark the targets. The only problem is that you are required to get hit to trigger your RA.
Fighters Recovery and Villians Menace should be merged together as the GF cheesy version of an Unstoppable.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
OMG yes thats what I'm saying!!
If a gwf can be speced to do both roles dps or tank then we should be able to too.
We see the sentinal gwfs out dpsing us conq gwf swordmaster tanks so much its sick.
Either nerf their tanking abilitys or make us be able to hit hard like a gwf.
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
Those numbers include Wrathful warrior too ? If they do you'd be better off removing it, you'll get much clearer idea of your actual damage output
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
So I checked the math...
At 9800 power u should have a dmg bonus of 58% (that is true only if power gives the same amount of dmg, I calculated 1% of dmg which is = 168.8684 power, from my power 6417 = 38%) then RA gives u 4900 power = 29% dmg not to mention the incoming heal...
So if your lunging deals 7800 dmg RA gives u 2262 dmg. The new RA gives u 25% flat (no heal) +10% chance to crit (that dosen t mean u crit)
But, keep in mind thats doesn't diminish when my guard is lowered or broken. So up-time on RA should be better? I am not arguing for or against just sorting out speculations...
Crit as a GF is hard to build but I am at 22% so this RA will give me 32% crit for 10 seconds.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
here is the problem I like the old RA cause I don t always stay under the guard, I guard only the big hits and CC dmg with the new guard and the old RA (this is a good dream) i only stay 1-2 sec under guard max the rest is up to the DC, life steal, pots to heal me... so if the new RA adds 25% incoming heal or they change the guard so GF regenerates HP under guard it will be nicer...
This is something we need to wait for as we have given feedback on the previous changes so lets see what he has in store next as the coming changes are to get block where it is supposed to be when 80% cannot be mitigated and we get our own dr on the remaining 20% that is not blocked. Plus there is the new RA where we only got a 5% boost instead of the 25%.
I recently switched to swordmaster since that will be way better in mod 4 so i use tide instead of threatening rush and its a great skill, i don't spam it, i wait until i knock an enemy prone and get a hit in to debuff them or if i need some guard back fast.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]