Id like to get more opinion on this idea? This gives players a large majority of their "power" back. Basically any GF with <9000 power on LIVE will get a larger power boost.
Then the crit provides roughly another 9% DPS meaning roughly = 1530 power (3060 with the OLD RA) Which would mean any GF who stacked about 12k Power on Live would see equal benefits in DPS.
This provides power over damage - something people complained about.
This provides decent crit chance - the biggest area DPS GFs were lacking.
I dont see AT ALL how it is "OP" I think this would be a good "middle ground" for everyone. The fact that its 3 stacks and WE APPLY IT makes it really easy for a GF to roll into combat, get up and KEEP it up - we have no control over people hitting us.
So I think this solves everyone's dilemma around this rework.
There are a couple of things we need to consider here,
1. we need to understand how the % is being done -
4500 Power = 27% (if every 166 power = 1% damage)
- cleave of 1000 + 30%(+ 27% reckless attacker *which is converted to power) = 57% total coming from power = 1570 damage
OR
- cleave of 1000 + 30% power coming from power + 25% damage* from reckless attack = 1625
Well, dumbed down is dumbed down. The majority of this community is barely able to type their own names without typos, so it didn't surprise me that they find the old Reckless attacker less appealing, since it took some brains to use it, properly. The same goes for the GF who could not defeat a GWF, while i killed them with 25k+ crits. I know what i am doing, i did not need any guides (in a game that consists of nothing but ARCHETYPES, anyway) to build my character in a unique way and be successful with it, against fotm classes aswell as fotm forum-guide, baboon specs. The old block also required an intelligent person sitting in front of the screen, now it requires ZERO brain which caters towards the dumb - newcomer masses, instead of the people who have 12+ years of mmo experience.
---
Like we already mentioned, my wife and i deleted our characters and already found a new game, where the developers at least do not listen to complete delusionists. It was a nice ride, while it lasted. Seeya, to those who care and also seeya, to those who do not care.
Not everything should be only for good, well skilled players, these changes do make guard more simple and easier yes that does help the lesser guardian fighters but if its better then it also helps the more experienced players who are good anyway.
Except for the central flaw that it doesn't work if Level cap or equipment rules or power changes Also it totally breaks everyone pre 60 (because power is not 166 points per % pre 60).
It has to be a percent bonus for these reasons.
Good points - I dont think the pre-60 is IMO a huge deal. The earliest you can get the capstone is what, level 50-51? So its only the final "pre-60" either pvp bracket or dungeons that are affected. IMO, its WAY less game breaking than twinks at that level - just saying.
I think the level cap raising causes bigger issues, this is the first time Ive ever seen a DEV comment on this, and didnt think it was even in the works. So kudos to even thinking about it
I still am holding though that 3 stacks the GF applies is better than 5 stacks someone else applies. Thats my biggest concern here. I think 5 stacks the GF applies is TOO much. Takes too long to build momentum and many classes can kite for over 10 seconds, makes it too easy to lose.
I STILL think 10%/4% would work fine as well, Yes its a 39% damage boost - but again all classes have higher weapons which is the biggest factor in damage, so its not like giving GFs 39% DPS boost and HRs 30% is "breaking" GFs. Heck GWFs have over 1000 damage top end AND a 50% damage capstone. Destroyers Purpose offers almost 40% and thats not even a capstone!
TLDR: 10%dmg/4%crit helps the Conq GF make up for lack of top end weapon damage. I would bet this STILL wont make a GF seen as a "dps class" merely a Tank Class that has decent damage. GWFs/HRs/CWs will still dominate the field in PVE DPS.
-The OTHER option could be to "bring back" the "stalwart" method of giving power... AKA Grants % of HP as power. Now that CON was buffed for GFs, I could see something LIKE
Reckless Attacker: Grants 4% of your Max HP as Power and 4% crit chance. Stacks 3 times, lasts 10 seconds. Thoughts on this?! It now scales with all levels....
Examples:
4% HP at 35k HP = 1400 power/stack (25% dmg boost)
4% HP at 40k HP = 1600 power/stack (28.9% dmg boost)
I am probably MORE in favor of the flat 10%/4% damage boost, but this would make a "scaling" to the capstone...
Guarding less than 100% Block is a very good thing with a number of implications.
It's good for PvE and PvP, especially with +4% health now instead of 2.
I have some idea what the forumla might look like for bleed through damage and I think armor penetration should be taken out of it, even if only on paper first. I think it is an idea worth understanding.
Also, regardless of current preview stamina drain and recharge being bearable as opposed to what it was a week ago, I look at other class discussions and begin to see how far behind we are.
Distracting Shield 1/2/3/4/5% - Buff!
Potent Challenge - 5/10/15% - Outdated
Powerful Attack -2/4/6/8/10% - Dilapidated
Grit 1/2/3% - Outdated, Conflicted
Weapon Mastery 1/2/3% - Out of Place
So is the DR I mentioned going to be separated? Is equipment DR and shield DR going to be mitigated the same amount by the same source of AP or mitigation?
Is 20% AP going to get through 20% of my shield, and 20% of my Damage Resistance? If that is the cae, some people get HUGE mitigation and will effectively make us defenseless regardless of a shield or not... I don't understand why that is ok?
Ill explain how it should work so it is 100% clear.
Given your example of 2000 incoming damage and 50% DR you would take 1000 while not blocking. Then your block would get involved and multiply THAT post resist number by 20% (resulting in 200 incoming damage, or a grand total 90% resistance). You can also take your current damage resistance * 1.8 to find what your blocking resist SHOULD be. Alternately you could multiply the base damage by .2 (Block grants 80%) and then multiply the remaining value (400 in this case) by your damage resist.
This is what makes a multiplicative bonus so nice. As long as you aren't using an operation that isn't a part of the formula you will generally get the right answer.
So. TL;DR. Damage Resistance while blocking works like this. (FinalDamage) = (Damage) * (1 - DamageResist) * (1 - BlockResist)
In your example that would be 200 = (2000) * (1.5) * (1-.8)
Hopefully that clears it up!
Im necro-ing this post just to make sure I 100% understand this...
Also, we attack slowly, we attack melee, not to mention we lack mobility. You can't just say "You aren't a DPS Class". Buff the hard figures on At-Will damage. We are fundamentally undeveloped.
Bug: Block shows that its broken with Stamina remaining Block shows that its broken, when there is still stamina remaining, seems to happen more often when you get hit by many attacks, block still works and until it is drained completely.
Tactician: Martial Mastery: This feat now generates AP for allies within 50' any time you take damage. You no longer have to not be blocking for this effect to work.
YES! Tactician is, as far as I can tell, the tree that's about making your allies stronger, so they can destroy stuff faster. The capstone always felt out of place for this - until this change (which admittedly may take a LOT of fine-tuning to work properly). THANK YOU.
Protector: Iron Guard: Now stacks 4 times, reducing enemy damage by 5% per stack (Maximum reduction of 20%, up from 10%).
Good!.
As a Protector, I find that's pretty useful to decrease the enemy's damage, but although I feel good about the change... I think it would be better if this effect occurs when I take damage, for me it would make more sense (it would be like an improved version of Distracting Shield), and also, it would have a good synergy with Knight's Valor... Also, I think that activating the Protector capstone by making an attack feels weird.
Looking forward to Tactician and Protector changes.
Distracting Shield paragon power is no good at 1/2/3%
I also still think Tide of Iron and Crushing Surge are utility skills. They deserve to be represented that way, not do extra damage. No one uses them anyway, they're novelty skills. There is no point in not simply catering to this.
Looking forward to Tactician and Protector changes.
Distracting Shield paragon power is no good at 1/2/3%
I also still think Tide of Iron and Crushing Surge are utility skills. They deserve to be represented that way, not do extra damage. No one uses them anyway, they're novelty skills. There is no point in not simply catering to this.
I always use tide for pve and pvp great debuff and shield regen.
well with the new one we can make it so it is up 100% of the time, but im really curious as to the response i want to know what he/she thinks what makes old block so grand that the devs should consider keeping it
This is the mentality that is winning here, why would anyone want to block 100% of the time, I thought we were a fighter class, you should not deal damage while hiding behind a shield.
Have any of you tried playing without using your shield, I don't think so, yet everyone camps and insults those of us that do. I didn't need a shield neither did Embracemysword, Ctf4void, Colonelwing and perhaps a few others, we found we can sacrifice the shield to give massive DPS and survive, maybe you all could take a few lessons.
It has been stated those above 5395X2=10790 power will see a slight dps loss, yeah how bout almost 4k in power loss, plus the associated damage that 4k in power will generate. Please do not try and sell me on the idea that crit is going to make up the remaining difference, crit is a non constant variable, it cannot be calculated into a fixed damage formula. Sure sometimes you will hit with more damage, but how often its a variable not fixed. Sure if you could get a GF with close to 50% crit I might agree, but you can't on a GF, its hard enough on a rouge to get that high. SO crit is a low solution variable not ment to be used in any damage based formula.
After these last statements from crush, and especially since I saw him post on the GWF forums he was going to be on there with pewpew to PVP with the other gwf's yesterday, I know whats coming.
SO I will be joining colonelwing and embracemysword and perhaps a few others still on the borderline.
I know someone like ICE will come on here and make a quote like this again:
Q.Q good cya never
This is the mentality that is winning here, why would anyone want to block 100% of the time, I thought we were a fighter class, you should not deal damage while hiding behind a shield.
Have any of you tried playing without using your shield, I don't think so, snip
Well, in my load out I use Bull Rush, Lunging Strike, and Griffin's with Threatening Rush and Cleave right now.
First of all, I acknowledge the gist of everything you said to be absolutely true.
Second, there is a glitch that allows blocking 100% of the time with Mark using tab...
Now with that said. I think the overarcing point of this module is to round out every class as much as possible so we don't get a repeat of the HR debut.
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noerqMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 26Arc User
Secondly, the stacking mechanic. While I am not diametrically opposed to 3 stacks at 10% and 4% that is a far more substantive buff (39% damage buff rather than 32.5%. This equates to 6474 Power) and we do want to reinforce that at his core the Guardian Fighter is NOT a DPS class. While he has options for increasing his damage and being far more disruptive, his primary role in a party should still be controlling mobs with aggro and enabling allies to get into a strong position. The Conqueror tree was (and still is) intended to let players who wish to rely more on their allies healing abilities and their own skills to survive these onslaughts so they can contribute more damage to the team. It could be roughly equated to a Risk/Reward tree, which is where the original Reckless Attacker came from. Conqueror is also intended to provide a strong and viable solo play option for players who prefer to play that way as well.
While i appreciate what you are trying to do for us GFs, I am absolutely sure that this will change NOTHING for us. Why? Simple. We are already "controllers" and, with good gear, already able to tank the **** out of every dungeon. We are still not wanted in groups. And we will never be if you don't change your "it's not a DPS class" attitude. The majority of players doesn't give a **** about the purpose of a class. They give a **** about how fast they can faceroll through dungeons. And without every class being able to kick out a hell lot of more DPS than us, noone will want us after the patch.
(ah and by the way: GWFs are still tankier than GFs. Thank you.)
Agreed, the HR is WAY too tanky. Primarily because of their dodge mechanic as well as some of their other buffs. Honestly Aspect of the Lone Wolf should be reversed. Instead of lowering your DR for each player near you, you should gain DR in proportion to the number of player near you. Thus you become more tanky the more players near you. I think in 1v1 situations this is causing the HR to be FAR too tanky and it seems counter-intuitive to me. In 1v1, they should gain very little DR boost, but surrounded by 5 opponants, this is their class feature that allows them to actually survive.
What do you think of my above proposition? 1500 power + 4% crit stacks 3 times.
If you have 14k power, this would put you back to 7k+4500 = 11,500 power. But gaining 12% Crit is another 9% DPS.
While its a DPS loss, for you to get 14k power you had to lose quite a bit of defensive stats PLUS the ability to use your shield. So this change you still lose about 15% DPS on power, but gain 9% back as crit.
So a total loss of 6% but you gained 12% MORE from mark now so roughly still a DPS boost. This also still allows you to use your shield, AND swap out for more defensive stats or heck even crit/recovery if you would like.
People are saying they shouldnt be catering to the "few pvpers" or the "minority" well... I dont know many GFs who power stack 14k power and if they do, I can guarantee they do not perform well in PVP. These changes (along with some of the others Crush has rolled out) I think will make it a better experience for GFs even in PVE as well.
The cap on ET getting bumped is a massive DPS boost, plus the ability to block increases survivability. That and also all marked targets grant teammates CA? That seems like a reason to bring a GF to me. Plus now that GWFs are not as tanky, CWs dont deal as much damage, it balanced the field MUCH more for the GF that can tank, to also deal decent damage.
Almost feels like reading fiction. 14K Power ? Who even has that much ? And a GF having that much would mean absolutely crappy other stats. Such one-trick pony GF is not reliable at all. In a single pvp match, after you burst a few players they will take note of you and you will be focused till the end. A proper Conq GF has around 4000K base Power in order to have ~2000 Crit/ArmPen/Recovery and ~ 4000 Defence and 1500-2000 Deflect and ~ 1500 Regen.
The Reckless on Preview is quite good in solo PVE and solo PVP ( meaning one on one duels ) an I expect far greater things after the +%damage stacks start working properly. The Guard currently on Preview is quite good too, it allows us to move around well and actually have more uptime shielded ( I can get behind the enemy and hit ToI very fast ). Many GFs I think view the Shield as something they absolutely must use all the time and that is wrong. You are not supposed to always walk around hiding behind the board.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I messaged you, but I will ask here, are you opposed to merging Villains Menace and Fighters Recovery? This would help the GF immensely as they would no longer have to choose freedom, or healing themselves...
I would tone it down some and limit the healing received by a capped % of course, remove the bonus damage on Villains and just use the immunity but this would be an amazing change!
Dont know bout Crush, but I for one am opposed to this. If they merge them and keep both working as they are, it would result in an insanely powerful Daily, couple that with our very reliable AP generation and you have the new unkillable GF who is not only immune to damage for 5 secs but also heals to full HP + deals alot more damage + is CC immune = nerf. Id rather keep my dailies as they are and pick what to use & when to use. As for you dude, if you want to have unstoppable so much just roll a GWF alt.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Hey guys, I wanted to step in and talk about Reckless Attacker and some of the logic behind the change.
First, for those who believe they are getting nerfed. There is actually a power breakpoint where you *would* in theory see a nerf from this change, however it is very high. Reckless Attacker while fully stacked (which in regular content/combat should be fairly straight forward as stacking does not at this time have an ICD) grants 25% base damage and 10% crit (which for someone with no severity increases equates to 7.5% increased damage over the lifetime of of the character). This means a 32.5% damage bonus just from being struck. This means that if your build has more than 5395 Power you will see a slight decrease in damage, however you also gain the ability to use your shield more flexibly and freely without risking dropping below that value. This also frees up many of those stat points to be placed in other locations where you aren't at the DR caps yet. Overall this is a strong buff to the vast majority of GF players, and to those who had the stats and skills where this might be a nerf you will instead see a drastic increase in your combat flexibility and options for any given moment because you no longer have to worry that incoming damage should or shouldn't be blocked.
Secondly, the stacking mechanic. While I am not diametrically opposed to 3 stacks at 10% and 4% that is a far more substantive buff (39% damage buff rather than 32.5%. This equates to 6474 Power) and we do want to reinforce that at his core the Guardian Fighter is NOT a DPS class. While he has options for increasing his damage and being far more disruptive, his primary role in a party should still be controlling mobs with aggro and enabling allies to get into a strong position. The Conqueror tree was (and still is) intended to let players who wish to rely more on their allies healing abilities and their own skills to survive these onslaughts so they can contribute more damage to the team. It could be roughly equated to a Risk/Reward tree, which is where the original Reckless Attacker came from. Conqueror is also intended to provide a strong and viable solo play option for players who prefer to play that way as well.
Finally, as to the other two capstone feats. We will be making some buffs to those as well to better reinforce the roles of the particular trees they are members of.
Protector: Iron Guard: Now stacks 4 times, reducing enemy damage by 5% per stack (Maximum reduction of 20%, up from 10%).
Tactician: Martial Mastery: This feat now generates AP for allies within 50' any time you take damage. You no longer have to not be blocking for this effect to work.
Hopefully that clears up some of the thought process on these changes.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
EDIT: These two changes will not be in this week's preview push. It is much more likely that they will be in next week's push.
Chris first of all thank you for looking at us ,we know how you guys are all pressed with mod 4 coming and we appreciate that you try to keep NW in the elite of the action MMOs.
However:
"Reckless Attacker while fully stacked (which in regular content/combat should be fairly straight forward as stacking does not at this time have an ICD) grants 25% base damage and 10% crit (which for someone with no severity increases equates to 7.5% increased damage over the lifetime of of the character)."
You cannot add crit and damage and make a final result.As others said,crit is an inconsistent stat.In pvp where the encounters are short and brutal even with 25% crit you might never achieve a critical hit.It is just random.That is why we ask for more damage.
" While I am not diametrically opposed to 3 stacks at 10% and 4% that is a far more substantive buff (39% damage buff rather than 32.5%"
Would a compromise of 3 stacks of 10% more damage plus 3 stacks of 3% added critical for a total 30% more damage and 9% critical ,seem fair to you?
I think the 90% of the Conqs that are against the new RA ,would agree to a 30% /9% new RA.
I know, and you just said as the most authentic voice that GF is a controller class.You want to keep in line with trinity theory.
But you know that the other classes do not fit into the trinity theory either.Uber tanky HRs,n1 DPS CWs,ubertanks GWF Sents etc....Is so bad for the balance of the game to give us a 30%/9% new RA?Please think about it.
You spoke about control.
What about control powers?Empowered Griffon's Wrath is so slow that is extremely difficult to land succesive hits.
Crushing Pin (after investing whole 5 points into it) gives a mere 10% more damage for THREE secs.Three secs is just a cleave swing.it is too low.
Into the fray gives minimum HP to party.Why not increase that aspect a little?
Crushing surge animation is so slow that really looks like broken.And it is in that state from day number one.Can its animation speed up a little?
As you saw we are not so few the Gfs as many thought.many that play GFs are more mature in age and more influential people.Bringing more people to NW which is good for all.Please do not bitter us ,give us some attention by improving our class!!
Bug: Guard Contrary to what was stated by devs, guard is ignoring your baseline DR, and this means it becomes worse the better your defense get, and not the other way around.
For example, on my GF this actually makes guard do a -50% damage and not a -80%
Bug Armor Specialization still does not work
Strength focus does nothing for our strength
Knights challenge is still extremely buggy and the delay makes the skill unusable. And also a lot of time the skill goes gray for minutes at a time and i have to re slot it in.
Bug: Guard Break
Most of the time once all your Stamina is drained the Guard doesn't break, the GF just stops guarding.
Instead, the system fires off Guard Breaks randomly when your Stamina is still filled. You start guarding, at 50% (or whatever) the guard meter turns red, but the char remains in guard motion and is actually still guarding according to the ACT:
The marked Guard Break appeared at ~40% of the Stamina and you can see that the following attacks are still correctly being guarded although the system continues to fire a series of additional Breaks.
Bug: Guard Spec: Protector (For whatever reason I couldn't duplicate the bug easily so I don't know if it exists in other specs too. I would assume it will.) At some points in time when the Guard is full, despite using the Guard continuously, the Guard Meter does not degenerate / deplete AT ALL. I have been unable to duplicate this bug repeatedly yet I have noticed it previously while in combat but have dropped Guard to use an Encounter. Eventually, when this bug reoccurred, I WAS ABLE TO HOLD THE GUARD UP INDEFINITELY WITHOUT ANY LOSS OF GUARD METER. I managed to maintain this permanent Guard for 17 minutes. I gave up after this as I couldn't be bothered holding Shift any longer. There did not seem to be a discernible limit in place on how long the Guard would remain in this state. The Guard seemed to work as it would otherwise in that it reduced damage taken accordingly. I could not define a clear reason why this state occurred and was not able to replicate it at will. However, the bug only seems to occur once the Guard Meter is full.
Guarded Assault also does not proc weapon enchants like Plague Fire, Fire Bile, ect it should considering you are the one damaging the opponent i dont know if this a bug or not but i dont see why it shouldnt it's like this on live. however it does proc with briartwine and the like armor enchantments also it does proc Teneberous so why not weapon enchants?
Bug: Shield When controlled, holding shift won't make you hold shield up when contol is over, you need to release and press shift again for it to be hold up.
From what I have found via testing. Our block is not where it is going to be.
Block
Block is capped at 80% DR. And since it is DR, things like thornward can reduce it zero, so I am holding my shield and taking full damage. So once that is fixed it will be a beast. I was able to keep near continuous block for 50 seconds of a minute, and that was max feated, max artifacts, max strength, max stamina gain via boons, so that could be good, but it should be increased because with that set up you aren't going to hurt anything. But like I said, currently it can be mitigated to nothing
Capstone
5% damage is rough testing right now, the crit is ok, but 20% damage increase will be a BIG noticeable difference.
Before anyone tests again
Lets let Crush fix the block, if it is meant to be mitigated, then I would then suggest a revert and leaving the capstone where it is. If our block can be mitigated, there are some classes that can reduce it zero, essentially making it useless.
now there are a lot of repeats of the same ones through these 87 pages so i just took one that has multiple bug reports and put it in here if i am missing any go through the pages and please add them
You are counted as part of this. You generate the AP as well
As far as block goes, it is currently *bugged* and is not providing the full amount of resistance that it should. As far as it being mitigated I have no idea what you mean by that, so I can't really answer. If you are talking about more damage getting through block as your damage resistance is reduced (via Armor Pen or a debuff) then this is true, but was also true with the old block mechanic (it would take more damage because your Damage Resistance did matter). I will need some clarity on what effect is being referenced before I can provide any more information.
we mean that for
example skills like thronward, enfeeblement ext ext ext are reducing our guard DR down to 0% and not our player DR and if it worked that way with old block it did not seem to now with us taking 20% damage through our block it makes it useless.
or at least come here and explain how it's suppose to work for us i get that we can be mitigated but if players can null out our block to the point where 20%dmg isnt getting through it is now 100% dmg while guard is up.is this working as intended and if so this should not happen other than the fact all our other defences are not in the equation while guarding which you have stated is a bug then which DR is suppose to be mitigated while blocking . our block should not be the one being mitgated but our current player DR should this is wrong in so many ways and is not working.
feedback put our block on a seperate DR that cant be mitigated
3 secs is extremely low.We are talking for a mere 10% more damage here.If it was 20% damage ,ok then 3 secs will be sufficient.But 10% more damage for just 3 secs?And after investing 5 (five ) points to it? I think it is too low.Either its damage must improve(i don't see it with the mentality going around) or its duration.5-6 secs would be great i think.
Would a compromise of 3 stacks of 10% more damage plus 3 stacks of 3% added critical for a total 30% more damage and 9% critical ,seem fair to you?
I think the 90% of the Conqs that are against the new RA ,would agree to a 30% /9% new RA.
While this isnt a bad idea at all, I am much more in favor of added crit chance since that is a MAJOR thing lacking for GFs. With no good weapon enchants that we can work with because of low weapon damage and slow hits - which rules out a majority of weapon enchants, the ones left are "effect" enchants like GPF, Bronzewood, Feytouched, Terror, or Vorpal.
No matter the damage scaling enchants like GPF/Terror etc will have roughly the same effect, reducing the crit chance though makes something like Vorpal even LESS viable for our class. Id honestly like to see a crit build viable for GFs.
That said, maybe the solution is to remove some of the crit chance on the capstone, and give it somewhere else.
Tactical Superiority Is a Feat that for a Tier 4 offers VERY little in the way of damage... +5% more? Maybe a solution is to give THIS feat +5% more crit as a base ONTOP of the 5% damage boost.
THEN you can take Reckless Attacker, and reduce the crit there to much less. Say 3 stacks @ 10% damage and 2% Crit.
I think this would be much more fair, it spreads out the damage boosts, gives crit in other areas... I mean for a T4 feat thats pretty lacking, and arguable the new RA is too powerful of a capstone...
Comments
There are a couple of things we need to consider here,
1. we need to understand how the % is being done -
4500 Power = 27% (if every 166 power = 1% damage)
- cleave of 1000 + 30%(+ 27% reckless attacker *which is converted to power) = 57% total coming from power = 1570 damage
OR
- cleave of 1000 + 30% power coming from power + 25% damage* from reckless attack = 1625
Thats how i understand it.
Not everything should be only for good, well skilled players, these changes do make guard more simple and easier yes that does help the lesser guardian fighters but if its better then it also helps the more experienced players who are good anyway.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Good points - I dont think the pre-60 is IMO a huge deal. The earliest you can get the capstone is what, level 50-51? So its only the final "pre-60" either pvp bracket or dungeons that are affected. IMO, its WAY less game breaking than twinks at that level - just saying.
I think the level cap raising causes bigger issues, this is the first time Ive ever seen a DEV comment on this, and didnt think it was even in the works. So kudos to even thinking about it
I still am holding though that 3 stacks the GF applies is better than 5 stacks someone else applies. Thats my biggest concern here. I think 5 stacks the GF applies is TOO much. Takes too long to build momentum and many classes can kite for over 10 seconds, makes it too easy to lose.
I STILL think 10%/4% would work fine as well, Yes its a 39% damage boost - but again all classes have higher weapons which is the biggest factor in damage, so its not like giving GFs 39% DPS boost and HRs 30% is "breaking" GFs. Heck GWFs have over 1000 damage top end AND a 50% damage capstone. Destroyers Purpose offers almost 40% and thats not even a capstone!
TLDR: 10%dmg/4%crit helps the Conq GF make up for lack of top end weapon damage. I would bet this STILL wont make a GF seen as a "dps class" merely a Tank Class that has decent damage. GWFs/HRs/CWs will still dominate the field in PVE DPS.
-The OTHER option could be to "bring back" the "stalwart" method of giving power... AKA Grants % of HP as power. Now that CON was buffed for GFs, I could see something LIKE
Reckless Attacker: Grants 4% of your Max HP as Power and 4% crit chance. Stacks 3 times, lasts 10 seconds. Thoughts on this?! It now scales with all levels....
Examples:
4% HP at 35k HP = 1400 power/stack (25% dmg boost)
4% HP at 40k HP = 1600 power/stack (28.9% dmg boost)
I am probably MORE in favor of the flat 10%/4% damage boost, but this would make a "scaling" to the capstone...
It's good for PvE and PvP, especially with +4% health now instead of 2.
I have some idea what the forumla might look like for bleed through damage and I think armor penetration should be taken out of it, even if only on paper first. I think it is an idea worth understanding.
Also, regardless of current preview stamina drain and recharge being bearable as opposed to what it was a week ago, I look at other class discussions and begin to see how far behind we are.
Distracting Shield 1/2/3/4/5% - Buff!
Potent Challenge - 5/10/15% - Outdated
Powerful Attack -2/4/6/8/10% - Dilapidated
Grit 1/2/3% - Outdated, Conflicted
Weapon Mastery 1/2/3% - Out of Place
That is just the tip of the iceberg.
Is 20% AP going to get through 20% of my shield, and 20% of my Damage Resistance? If that is the cae, some people get HUGE mitigation and will effectively make us defenseless regardless of a shield or not... I don't understand why that is ok?
Im necro-ing this post just to make sure I 100% understand this...
"(FinalDamage) = (Damage) * (1 - DamageResist) * (1 - BlockResist)"
When someone has debuffs or ARP it ONLY mitigates the (1-damageresist) portion correct?
So lets say someone attacks with 2000 but it was debuffed (40%) +ARP (20%) = -60%. but the GF has only 50% DR, so the formula would be:
(440) = 2,000 * (1 - - .10) * ( 1 - 80%)
So the debuffs and ARP can ONLY affect the GFs DR NOT the actual block DR?
Block shows that its broken, when there is still stamina remaining, seems to happen more often when you get hit by many attacks, block still works and until it is drained completely.
but some dmg is counted as Guard break damage
This is crushing surge animation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_g5wP8mwzc
lol - now it looks as bad as it works! excellent!
He was good as hell ppl
Great Feedback, glad he was good as hell
Good!.
As a Protector, I find that's pretty useful to decrease the enemy's damage, but although I feel good about the change... I think it would be better if this effect occurs when I take damage, for me it would make more sense (it would be like an improved version of Distracting Shield), and also, it would have a good synergy with Knight's Valor... Also, I think that activating the Protector capstone by making an attack feels weird.
Thanks
Distracting Shield paragon power is no good at 1/2/3%
I also still think Tide of Iron and Crushing Surge are utility skills. They deserve to be represented that way, not do extra damage. No one uses them anyway, they're novelty skills. There is no point in not simply catering to this.
I always use tide for pve and pvp great debuff and shield regen.
This is the mentality that is winning here, why would anyone want to block 100% of the time, I thought we were a fighter class, you should not deal damage while hiding behind a shield.
Have any of you tried playing without using your shield, I don't think so, yet everyone camps and insults those of us that do. I didn't need a shield neither did Embracemysword, Ctf4void, Colonelwing and perhaps a few others, we found we can sacrifice the shield to give massive DPS and survive, maybe you all could take a few lessons.
It has been stated those above 5395X2=10790 power will see a slight dps loss, yeah how bout almost 4k in power loss, plus the associated damage that 4k in power will generate. Please do not try and sell me on the idea that crit is going to make up the remaining difference, crit is a non constant variable, it cannot be calculated into a fixed damage formula. Sure sometimes you will hit with more damage, but how often its a variable not fixed. Sure if you could get a GF with close to 50% crit I might agree, but you can't on a GF, its hard enough on a rouge to get that high. SO crit is a low solution variable not ment to be used in any damage based formula.
After these last statements from crush, and especially since I saw him post on the GWF forums he was going to be on there with pewpew to PVP with the other gwf's yesterday, I know whats coming.
SO I will be joining colonelwing and embracemysword and perhaps a few others still on the borderline.
I know someone like ICE will come on here and make a quote like this again:
Q.Q good cya never
Well, in my load out I use Bull Rush, Lunging Strike, and Griffin's with Threatening Rush and Cleave right now.
First of all, I acknowledge the gist of everything you said to be absolutely true.
Second, there is a glitch that allows blocking 100% of the time with Mark using tab...
Now with that said. I think the overarcing point of this module is to round out every class as much as possible so we don't get a repeat of the HR debut.
While i appreciate what you are trying to do for us GFs, I am absolutely sure that this will change NOTHING for us. Why? Simple. We are already "controllers" and, with good gear, already able to tank the **** out of every dungeon. We are still not wanted in groups. And we will never be if you don't change your "it's not a DPS class" attitude. The majority of players doesn't give a **** about the purpose of a class. They give a **** about how fast they can faceroll through dungeons. And without every class being able to kick out a hell lot of more DPS than us, noone will want us after the patch.
(ah and by the way: GWFs are still tankier than GFs. Thank you.)
100% Block.
http://youtu.be/4eGo_zaf248
Almost feels like reading fiction. 14K Power ? Who even has that much ? And a GF having that much would mean absolutely crappy other stats. Such one-trick pony GF is not reliable at all. In a single pvp match, after you burst a few players they will take note of you and you will be focused till the end. A proper Conq GF has around 4000K base Power in order to have ~2000 Crit/ArmPen/Recovery and ~ 4000 Defence and 1500-2000 Deflect and ~ 1500 Regen.
The Reckless on Preview is quite good in solo PVE and solo PVP ( meaning one on one duels ) an I expect far greater things after the +%damage stacks start working properly. The Guard currently on Preview is quite good too, it allows us to move around well and actually have more uptime shielded ( I can get behind the enemy and hit ToI very fast ). Many GFs I think view the Shield as something they absolutely must use all the time and that is wrong. You are not supposed to always walk around hiding behind the board.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Dont know bout Crush, but I for one am opposed to this. If they merge them and keep both working as they are, it would result in an insanely powerful Daily, couple that with our very reliable AP generation and you have the new unkillable GF who is not only immune to damage for 5 secs but also heals to full HP + deals alot more damage + is CC immune = nerf. Id rather keep my dailies as they are and pick what to use & when to use. As for you dude, if you want to have unstoppable so much just roll a GWF alt.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Chris first of all thank you for looking at us ,we know how you guys are all pressed with mod 4 coming and we appreciate that you try to keep NW in the elite of the action MMOs.
However:
"Reckless Attacker while fully stacked (which in regular content/combat should be fairly straight forward as stacking does not at this time have an ICD) grants 25% base damage and 10% crit (which for someone with no severity increases equates to 7.5% increased damage over the lifetime of of the character)."
You cannot add crit and damage and make a final result.As others said,crit is an inconsistent stat.In pvp where the encounters are short and brutal even with 25% crit you might never achieve a critical hit.It is just random.That is why we ask for more damage.
" While I am not diametrically opposed to 3 stacks at 10% and 4% that is a far more substantive buff (39% damage buff rather than 32.5%"
Would a compromise of 3 stacks of 10% more damage plus 3 stacks of 3% added critical for a total 30% more damage and 9% critical ,seem fair to you?
I think the 90% of the Conqs that are against the new RA ,would agree to a 30% /9% new RA.
I know, and you just said as the most authentic voice that GF is a controller class.You want to keep in line with trinity theory.
But you know that the other classes do not fit into the trinity theory either.Uber tanky HRs,n1 DPS CWs,ubertanks GWF Sents etc....Is so bad for the balance of the game to give us a 30%/9% new RA?Please think about it.
You spoke about control.
What about control powers?Empowered Griffon's Wrath is so slow that is extremely difficult to land succesive hits.
Crushing Pin (after investing whole 5 points into it) gives a mere 10% more damage for THREE secs.Three secs is just a cleave swing.it is too low.
Into the fray gives minimum HP to party.Why not increase that aspect a little?
Crushing surge animation is so slow that really looks like broken.And it is in that state from day number one.Can its animation speed up a little?
As you saw we are not so few the Gfs as many thought.many that play GFs are more mature in age and more influential people.Bringing more people to NW which is good for all.Please do not bitter us ,give us some attention by improving our class!!
Thanx!
now there are a lot of repeats of the same ones through these 87 pages so i just took one that has multiple bug reports and put it in here if i am missing any go through the pages and please add them
we mean that for
example skills like thronward, enfeeblement ext ext ext are reducing our guard DR down to 0% and not our player DR and if it worked that way with old block it did not seem to now with us taking 20% damage through our block it makes it useless.
or at least come here and explain how it's suppose to work for us
i get that we can be mitigated but if players can null out our block to the point where 20%dmg isnt getting through it is now 100% dmg while guard is up.is this working as intended and if so this should not happen other than the fact all our other defences are not in the equation while guarding which you have stated is a bug then which DR is suppose to be mitigated while blocking . our block should not be the one being mitgated but our current player DR should this is wrong in so many ways and is not working.
feedback
put our block on a seperate DR that cant be mitigated
While this isnt a bad idea at all, I am much more in favor of added crit chance since that is a MAJOR thing lacking for GFs. With no good weapon enchants that we can work with because of low weapon damage and slow hits - which rules out a majority of weapon enchants, the ones left are "effect" enchants like GPF, Bronzewood, Feytouched, Terror, or Vorpal.
No matter the damage scaling enchants like GPF/Terror etc will have roughly the same effect, reducing the crit chance though makes something like Vorpal even LESS viable for our class. Id honestly like to see a crit build viable for GFs.
That said, maybe the solution is to remove some of the crit chance on the capstone, and give it somewhere else.
Tactical Superiority Is a Feat that for a Tier 4 offers VERY little in the way of damage... +5% more? Maybe a solution is to give THIS feat +5% more crit as a base ONTOP of the 5% damage boost.
THEN you can take Reckless Attacker, and reduce the crit there to much less. Say 3 stacks @ 10% damage and 2% Crit.
I think this would be much more fair, it spreads out the damage boosts, gives crit in other areas... I mean for a T4 feat thats pretty lacking, and arguable the new RA is too powerful of a capstone...