ok well and dandy but if they want to pigeon hole us into a tank class then we should be 20% more tanky than a sentinel GWF but we just are not and thats a fact so it's pointless to assume we are a "tank" class. the GF class is more like a companion to other classes on dungeon runs on live. as it stands if they want us to be tank especially if we are going to be getting 20 adds on enforced threat then we need 4x more defense this is a fact it's sad that a scale wearing class has more DR and more deflect than a class in full plate in a shield something is backwards there.
if you want to tank roll a sent GWF, if you want to do both roll a destroyer GWF thats what all this boils down too.
if you want to stand around the enclave and look cool in your full plate armor roll a GF simple as that this class is in the dumps with no hopes of recovering it unless certain things happen.
feedback
1. our damage needs to be boosted on all at wills by i would say 10% maybe more
2. our horrendously broken block on preview needs to be fixed ASAP
3. we need to have at least 10-15% more DR than any GWF should ever have
4. our protector capstone should give us 10% deflect heck we could even use more deflect maybe dex should give us 1% per point .GWF can hit over 40% at max GF's can hit 30% with having to sacrafice other stats this shouldnt happen it should come naturally to us these are problems with development since GWF are way ahead of us in the curve and if we truly are suppose to be a tank class then make us one dont just say it.
5. all our abilitys that help a group should be buffed by 15%
6.we are not a tank class but we could be with the right changes GF"S definately need more survivability if this is going to happen since crush has stated we are suppose to be the tanks of this game but our role has been replaced by GWF.
exactly they want us to be tanks but our feats and capstones dont allow us to even remotely reach the level of tankiness a GWF can thats why i brought it up. for 3 points in bravery GWF get 14% deflect without haveing to spend any feat points whatsoever not to mention the run speed but whatever then with 5 stacks it gives them another 10% deflect ontop of the sent capstone which gives them an additional 20% DR this class can cap the 80% dr without even blinking and they can hit 45% deflect just by at least getting 20% on their character sheet and haveing weapon master and bravery slotted this is redundant in the fact GF's are the only class they insist on pushing the trinity aspect
i would switch plate agility out for bravery in a heart beat i would get rid of the protector capstone and give us the sentinels you see everything the sentinel has makes them 4x better at tanking than us it's sad but guys the GF is a dead class when it comes to being a tank it's never gonna happen
Originally Posted by gentlemancrush:
" we do want to reinforce that at his core the Guardian Fighter is NOT a DPS class. While he has options for increasing his damage and being far more disruptive, his primary role in a party should still be controlling mobs with aggro and enabling allies to get into a strong position. The Conqueror tree was (and still is) intended to let players who wish to rely more on THEIR allies healing abilities and their own skills to survive these onslaughts so they can contribute more damage to the team."
feedback^^^then make it so chris give us a big boost to our defense and deflect to coincide with the ability now to aggro 20+mobs by spamming enforced threat it's a joke you guys give our counter part more DR more Deflect more DPS(which i dont mind not haveing alot of it would be nice to be an actual tank) and more more ways to move.
but you buffed GWF so much in this department that in retrospect GF's have lagged miles behind you want us to fill this roll but give us no options or defense to survive this onslaught of critters our DR is terrible our deflect is atrocious these both need to be boosted if you want us to be tank if not just come out and say "hey guys sorry but we actually just dont know what to do with this class"
take a step back and look at what your saying, if you want to enforce us as tanks make it so cause right now our counterparts have it way better and they carry 2handers and wear scale mail how can you not see the problem there. for the love of kelemvor think hard about this because with those quotes its redundant.
personally i could care less about a damage increase what i do care about is being shoehorned into a "tank" role without any actual means to accomplish this role we have 4x less defense than our scale wearing brothers it just makes no sense and is backwards beyond everything you said about it chris.
everyone is on this damage kick sure it's nice but it wont fix the problem as a whole we need 4x more defenese if we are to be tanking 20+ mobs with enforced threat right now our block is screwed our defenses/deflect are 4x less than our counterparts and our capstones are useless with the exception of the new tactician one. if you cant see the problem with this picture and are still trying to enforce our role as tanks i give up.
im just hopeing they make a paladin one of these days so i can take all my enchants and ad and start fresh on hopefully a decent plate wearing class.
Replies: 924
Views: 46,344<---not much to show for it
By the way.
Feedback: Guard Walk Speed
I think 85% is still a little bit too high. 75% is fine with me.
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epclipseingmoonMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
Will we see Iron Vanguard buffed for us? Swordmaster for a tank does not make sence why buff that one?
Threatening rush is a must have mob collecting power and it gives us movement more or less too rounding things up.
Frontline Serge can get us out of being surrounded and dead. If mobs get behind our block we die afterall.
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited July 2014
I have removed quite a bit of the discussions and debates that occured just in the last twelve hours and there are likely another 30+ pages which can and will be removed from this thread when I have the spare time.
Please keep this thread for feedback.
Do not debate with other users. Do not post speculations.
And do try to keep the feedback based on the current changes on the Preview Shard.
Additionally please try to keep the feedback as tweaks to the existing changes. The number one cause of the debates and discussions are valid feedback that are in fact wish lists.
Those types of suggestions are not bad and these changes were absolutely derived from the various wish lists and debates we have had on the forums for months now... But this thread is not the place for them.
Try to keep the feedback at least somewhat related to the current changes. If you read your post and it can be summarized as 'I don't agree with these changes and want the devs to do something completely different than what is on the Preview Shard and Live Server' it more than likely should be posted somewhere besides the Official Feedback threads.
It doesn't make them bad ideas but, if for no other reason than organisation of feedback, game changing suggestions more often than not do not belong in the feedback threads.
With the current preview guard mechanic allowing 20% damage even through blocked attacks, its imperative that the GF be given more deflection as we need to be able to mitigate more damage, once guard is down we are completely helpless. This applies to both PvE and PvP...
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I think a large factor thats being forgotten is that GFs cant really attack or do anything while blocking where as a GWF can not only attack but also sprint etc. They build unstopppable the more damage they take meaning they GAIN tankiness the more mobs are on them.
GFs now on PTR still have broken block, not working as intended, which is hurting us alot. Even once fixed though it seems to me that GFs DR needs to be boosted.
A clever idea was to boost tue impact AC has on the class. In PnP AC is HUGE but here its a joke... Buffing AC could give GFs the tankiness needed to survive
However GWFs can get north of 35-40% deflect fairly easily where as a GF struggles to get 25%.
Also a GWF can get north of 30-40% crit very easily where as a GF has to max stack crit just to touch 21%ish (in pvp).
Again a REALLY easy way to fix these two issues: Move ARP onto CON. Give DEX = 1% deflect per point AND add crit (.5%) to DEX as well
You know... thinking about all of this more, Crush posted saying were not a DPS class, but like others have mentioned not only are we NOT even close to a DPS class, we arent even much of a tanky class either...
With the above post in mind, hopefully we can get some "agreement" as to the proper direction of the GF... What do people think about THESE changes?
CUMULATIVE CHANGES TO GF:
1) CON = ADDED 1% ARP per point. Keep AP gain and HP.
DEX = 1% Deflection per point. .5% CRIT added per point.
2) Boost the effectiveness of AC ALOT. Instead of 2 AC = 1%DR, maybe 3AC = 2% DR. This would be a 50% increase in AC/DR meaning most GFs would gain about 15% DR?
3) TACTICAL SUPERIORITY - Now grants 1/2/3/4/5% More Crit when Combat Superiority is slotted ONTOP of the 1/2/3/4/5% dmg boost. (This seems STILL lackluster for a T4 feat btw but acceptable
4) RECKLESS ATTACKER Now grants 3 stacks @ 10% damage boost - applied by the GF's attacks. Lasts 10 seconds.
All of these changes total:
- Buffs AC effectiveness (NEEDED)
- Buffs GFs Deflection (NEEDED)
- Allows for GFs to get DECENT crit (MAX would be 7%-7.5% from DEX and 5% more from TS now - 12% total boost)
- Allows for fair damage boost to Reckless - with adding crit to other places instead.
ALL of this allows for the GF to me more of a walking tank, and even with all these changes the GF STILL wont be considered a DPS class, but atleast now Conq can deal SOME damage and still maintain SOME tankiness, Now the Protector tree would be THAT much more tanky. These changes IMO are needed. There are others as well but I chose to focus on just a few areas....
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epclipseingmoonMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
A GWF should have a higher deflection due to the fact they have a huge 2 handed blade and can block attacks common sence...
A GF should never have as high deflect because how can you hold a shield and focuss on deflecting with one hand more or less.
Now our DR on the other hands should be buffed and GWF's scale lowered say to say 85% DR. Buff their deflect though.
What I mean is:
A GWF's Armor at say 4,600 should be the same as A GF's at 4,000 and have around the same DR%
A GWF should have a higher deflection due to the fact they have a huge 2 handed blade and can block attacks common sence...
A GF should never have as high deflect because how can you hold a shield and focuss on deflecting with one hand more or less.
Now our DR on the other hands should be buffed and GWF's scale lowered say to say 85% DR. Buff their deflect though.
Not sure I completely understand where you are coming from on that. A real shield's only purpose is to deflect attacks. Why would that mean a GF should deflect less?
Feedback: Deflection Deflection is one of the key defensive stats in this game. The GF gets lots of items with defelction on it and cain raise the score fairly high, but without feats that non tank classes get we still fall behind them in deflect percentage by a large margin.
This is really hurting the survivability of the class. Modilfiers only help when they are being added to soemthing. 10% (from deflection on items) added to a base with feats of around 15% only =25%. A class with less deflect adding 8% (from a lower amount of deflection on items) to a base of 25% with feats is 33% So the "tank" ends up only blocking 1 in 4 even though he geared for deflecting and the "dps" deflects 1 in 3. This is wrong.
Feedback: Block Although block is suppose to stop a large portion of damage, it does not because it is currently not working as intended. I understand that is "suppose" to be fixed and will help immensely. The true problem is that as stated before GF is NOT suppose to be a dps class. I think it would be safer to assume the role was to be a tank since thats what most shield wielding characters in every game have been. As the key ability for defending, block has a very glaring weakness. It is the only shift ability that does not give protection from every angle. If something is behind the GF his shift ability does nothing. With mobs being pushed around and players able to think, it is almost impossible to keep everything infront of you. If the GF is suppose to be the tank, it needs a reliable way to stop the damage, not be the only class that's shift doesnt protect from all angles.
The main problem I see in this thread are the different demands from GF players.
U cant be super tanky, support ur group, protect ur group, cc the enemy and dealing great dmg all at once.
I played a GF myself before mod2 and he was great fun, because he newrly had all of above qualities. These days are gone and will nver come again.
I still see players here demanding GF should have the option to do good dmg while beeing tanky. Thats nust wrong. We have already a class for that and thats the gwf. What GFs really should focus on is tankiness, some kind of node control and group protection.
If u wanna play a dps GF ur in a bad spot as the DC who wanna go dps.
So what the GF needs is more HP, more resistances and more abilities to mitigate incoming dmg for the party. He DOES NOT need more mobility or more dmg. Giving him 85% run speed while shield is up is ridiciolous, but giving him cc immunity is great on the other hand.
Players have to understand that a GF is a SUPPORT class and the buffs to the class should focus on this aspect.
If the devs can pull this off I will play my GF again. Because before mod2 I was tired beeing a flying, charging superman who kills in one rotation, and after mod2 I was tired beeing the weak spot in any giving team.
Give GF super tankiness, give him nice node control as push backs to knock someone off the node, and leave his weak dmg and his low mobility as it is.
My opinion from a pvp perspective.
I disagree. I think the issue lies with what the GF is intended to do. Guardian Fighters are still fighters, same as GWFs who just CHOOSE to specialize in more "defensive" capabilities. The problem is, not only are they NOT dish out damage, they also CANT take a beating.
BOTH of these aspects need to be buffed. GFs were only fine pre-mod 2 because tenacity actually helped the LOWEST DR classes the most and hardly benefited higher DR characters like GWF/GF. Also a GFs damage abilities really shined pre-tenacity because of crit/burst damage. That has been nerfed now so even when you crit now - which is rare, it isnt as bursty as it once was. Ontop of ALL of that, classes have figured out how to counter block and each class has multiple ways to do so. So prior to that, most pvpers didnt honestly know how to counter block which made it seem much more useful than it actually was...
A Conq GF should be arguably the LEAST tanky of the GFs but spit out the most damage. Not as high as a Striker class, but arguably in the same range, they sacrifice tankiness and group support to deal more damage - this currently is REALLY LACKING!
A Prot GF should lose damage for more defensive characteristics. Again lacking
Tact -blah blah Utility.
PART OF THE PROBLEM IS FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCES IN THE GAME.
Guardian Fighters get the lowest weapon damage - ok fine... But AC has been vastly undervalued in this game. So GFs get the raw end of the deal with very low damage (and damage potential) as well as being hurt very badly on the defensive side of things.
Should a guardian fighter ONLY be tanky when using a shield to block? NO. They should feel tanky 24/7 as they are wearing frikin plate armor.... They have the slowest run speed, with ZERO feats/features to increase that. They have zero feats/ features to increase deflect (higher than other classes)/crit either. This is part of the fundamental problem.
- Just think of the HR here... Im fairly certain they have a feat that grants them 10% deflect in melee stance? Either THIS (and other classes) needs to be in the form of pure stats. or MAYBE the GF needs to get some love...
AC - typically a HUGE defensive variable, has been horribly translated over, so the GF gets the raw end of both deals - low damage, low weapon damage, and the ONE thing they SHOULD excel at is high AC.
This is why I STILL propose (and I hope people back me up here)
CON = HP/ARP/AP gain.
DEX = 1% deflect (up from .5%) and .5% CRIT (from 0%).
AC re-worked to 2% DR every 3 AC (UP FROM 1% DR every 2 AC)
THEN add more crit into the Conq Tree and for the Capstone make it pure damage (maybe 10% @ 3 stacks).
This NOW allows the GF conqs to deal a moderate amount of damage and retain SOME tankiness.
This allows Prot GFs to be MUCH tankier (with more AC benefits and now the damage reductions are that much more potent)
and NOW allows tacts to still have a mix of both
I disagree. I think the issue lies with what the GF is intended to do. Guardian Fighters are still fighters, same as GWFs who just CHOOSE to specialize in more "defensive" capabilities. The problem is, not only are they NOT dish out damage, they also CANT take a beating.
BOTH of these aspects need to be buffed. GFs were only fine pre-mod 2 because tenacity actually helped the LOWEST DR classes the most and hardly benefited higher DR characters like GWF/GF. Also a GFs damage abilities really shined pre-tenacity because of crit/burst damage. That has been nerfed now so even when you crit now - which is rare, it isnt as bursty as it once was. Ontop of ALL of that, classes have figured out how to counter block and each class has multiple ways to do so. So prior to that, most pvpers didnt honestly know how to counter block which made it seem much more useful than it actually was...
A Conq GF should be arguably the LEAST tanky of the GFs but spit out the most damage. Not as high as a Striker class, but arguably in the same range, they sacrifice tankiness and group support to deal more damage - this currently is REALLY LACKING!
A Prot GF should lose damage for more defensive characteristics. Again lacking
Tact -blah blah Utility.
PART OF THE PROBLEM IS FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCES IN THE GAME.
Guardian Fighters get the lowest weapon damage - ok fine... But AC has been vastly undervalued in this game. So GFs get the raw end of the deal with very low damage (and damage potential) as well as being hurt very badly on the defensive side of things.
Should a guardian fighter ONLY be tanky when using a shield to block? NO. They should feel tanky 24/7 as they are wearing frikin plate armor.... They have the slowest run speed, with ZERO feats/features to increase that. They have zero feats/ features to increase deflect (higher than other classes)/crit either. This is part of the fundamental problem.
- Just think of the HR here... Im fairly certain they have a feat that grants them 10% deflect in melee stance? Either THIS (and other classes) needs to be in the form of pure stats. or MAYBE the GF needs to get some love...
AC - typically a HUGE defensive variable, has been horribly translated over, so the GF gets the raw end of both deals - low damage, low weapon damage, and the ONE thing they SHOULD excel at is high AC.
This is why I STILL propose (and I hope people back me up here)
CON = HP/ARP/AP gain.
DEX = 1% deflect (up from .5%) and .5% CRIT (from 0%).
AC re-worked to 2% DR every 3 AC (UP FROM 1% DR every 2 AC)
THEN add more crit into the Conq Tree and for the Capstone make it pure damage (maybe 10% @ 3 stacks).
This NOW allows the GF conqs to deal a moderate amount of damage and retain SOME tankiness.
This allows Prot GFs to be MUCH tankier (with more AC benefits and now the damage reductions are that much more potent)
and NOW allows tacts to still have a mix of both
I agree with all this and really hope one day it is fixed so we the "tank" class have good defense. I don't want to have the best dmg but we should not have less than a cleric since as ayroux already said, we are a fighter class too.
This is why I STILL propose (and I hope people back me up here)
CON = HP/ARP/AP gain.
DEX = 1% deflect (up from .5%) and .5% CRIT (from 0%).
AC re-worked to 2% DR every 3 AC (UP FROM 1% DR every 2 AC)
i 1000% back you on this and it is sorely needed for this class.
the reasons i brought up/compare our counter parts the GWF are these
feedback
a GWF can reach 45% deflect simply by putting 3 points into bravery which isn't even a feat but a class skill btw(14%) haveing weapon master slotted/feated(10%) and haveing 5/5 in scale agility(5%) thats a super easy 29% deflect right there now all they need is a low end stat from gear which they can hit 30% easy with the right gear ontop of that they have near a base DR like us with sentinel capstone increaseing this by 20%
VS
a GF who only has plate agility 5/5 (5%) and to get even 30% deflect we have to sacrafice alot in other stats also if you want a high DR you have to do this aswell see my point something is backwards here.
especially since crush has stated we are not DPS we are tanks well i hate to break it to you but how about they reinforce GWF roll as DPS strikers and not tanks.
to say reinforce means we were tanks from the beginning but none and i mean none of our feats/skills give us any means to fulfill this roll GF's should easily hit 45% deflect and close to 60%DR but that is impossible unless you gimp your character.
now consider this with the new threat hitting 20 mobs that are now swarming you we should have higher DR and deflect to survive this onslaught this needs to happen.
the problem is GF's have all the skills to make them a walking singularity in dungeons but the devs have implemented this poorly. if we had a higher base DR a higher base deflect we could spam enforced threat every 10 seconds while holding 20 mobs on us with the help of a healer but we will just drop in a matter of seconds due to our low defense
thats why i was comparing the 2. GWF A STRIKER CLASS NOT A TANK REINFORCE THAT WHY DONT YA should not have more DR/Deflect than the tank that has been reinforced by crush it just doesnt make sense the logic is wrong and the development is wrong hence why saying we are the tank class is redundant.
im fine with haveing low end damage if i wanted to dps i would roll a GWF or any other striker class but i wanted to be a tank but this class is so far from a tank it's laughable our DR and Deflect need to be upped 4x as much. tanks should absorb damage while holding mobs with threat currently we can hold the threat but not absorb the incoming damage well.
and if the devs truly want to reinforce this then that needs to happen
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epclipseingmoonMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
Here is what the GF needs.
1. Knights Valor: reset as class feature keep at 50% but cut the damage we gfs get from it to 20%. Having it as an encounter with cd is bad because we can't recast it if cced and its needed for the other melee classes.
2. Shield Wall: encounter A wall that is placed behind you in a 45 degree cone. Gives the 80% block for a few seconds to all members in the cone. But as soon as they leave cone def bonues is gone like astral shield. Basicly it could save lifes.
3. Make plate have a higher DR than Scale. eg GWFS 4600 = GFS 4000 at 85% Same DR at that level
4. Make our Armor Defence soft cap alot higher because we are a tank class.
5. Buff Iron Vanguard rather than Swordmaster.
6. Make Cleave Hit 180 Degrees and make it 10% faster.
7. Make Crushing Serge A little faster.
8. Add The ability to use certain encounters behind block such as Villians Menace and Fighters Recovery. Tanking would be alot easyer with this if we can cast thoese then lower block and use one skill. problem is with lots of mobs its hard to use fighters recovery then launch an encounter to start to heal ourself without being ragdolled.
9. Fix the stam block as it is currently bugged. Block falling before stams gone and such.
10. Add Crit stat to Dex even if its only say .5%
Well that about sums up how to fix this class in one post. We don't need our damage boosted much because this is a tank class.
Hey all, I wanted to drop in and share some changes and bug fixes we are making to several Guardian Fighter powers to make them more flexible and usable.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: This power no longer has a maximum duration. Once it is toggled on it must be manually toggled off. While in combat it will generate AP only while in combat and will generate every 10 seconds while in combat.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: Base cooldown reduced to 10 seconds (down from 12).
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: Ranking the power up no longer increases the duration of Knight's Valor. Additional ranks in the power reduce the damage you take from intercepted damage. Allies still transfer 50% damage regardless of rank.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Challenge: This power should no longer be cancelled accidentally when casting powers rapidly.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Challenge: This power can now be toggled off if the Guardian Figther presses the button again. You must wait 1 second after activating the power to do this.
Guardian Fighter: Crushing Surge: Damage and Healing from this power have been increased by roughly 66%.
I am also hoping the fix to Block will make it in this week (it requires some changes to the underlying code).
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
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elveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 336
Hey all, I wanted to drop in and share some changes and bug fixes we are making to several Guardian Fighter powers to make them more flexible and usable.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: This power no longer has a maximum duration. Once it is toggled on it must be manually toggled off. While in combat it will generate AP only while in combat and will generate every 10 seconds while in combat.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: Base cooldown reduced to 10 seconds (down from 12).
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: Ranking the power up no longer increases the duration of Knight's Valor. Additional ranks in the power reduce the damage you take from intercepted damage. Allies still transfer 50% damage regardless of rank.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Challenge: This power should no longer be cancelled accidentally when casting powers rapidly.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Challenge: This power can now be toggled off if the Guardian Figther presses the button again. You must wait 1 second after activating the power to do this.
Guardian Fighter: Crushing Surge: Damage and Healing from this power have been increased by roughly 66%.
I am also hoping the fix to Block will make it in this week (it requires some changes to the underlying code).
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: This power no longer has a maximum duration. Once it is toggled on it must be manually toggled off. While in combat it will generate AP only while in combat and will generate every 10 seconds while in combat.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: Base cooldown reduced to 10 seconds (down from 12).
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: Ranking the power up no longer increases the duration of Knight's Valor. Additional ranks in the power reduce the damage you take from intercepted damage. Allies still transfer 50% damage regardless of rank.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Challenge: This power should no longer be cancelled accidentally when casting powers rapidly.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Challenge: This power can now be toggled off if the Guardian Figther presses the button again. You must wait 1 second after activating the power to do this.
Guardian Fighter: Crushing Surge: Damage and Healing from this power have been increased by roughly 66%.
I am also hoping the fix to Block will make it in this week (it requires some changes to the underlying code).
...
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
These are interesting changes.
But without a functioning block, no test will be worth much. I hope you'll get it working.
Olaf, freelance guardian fighter.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
Hey all, I wanted to drop in and share some changes and bug fixes we are making to several Guardian Fighter powers to make them more flexible and usable.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: This power no longer has a maximum duration. Once it is toggled on it must be manually toggled off. While in combat it will generate AP only while in combat and will generate every 10 seconds while in combat.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: Base cooldown reduced to 10 seconds (down from 12).
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: Ranking the power up no longer increases the duration of Knight's Valor. Additional ranks in the power reduce the damage you take from intercepted damage. Allies still transfer 50% damage regardless of rank.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Challenge: This power should no longer be cancelled accidentally when casting powers rapidly.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Challenge: This power can now be toggled off if the Guardian Figther presses the button again. You must wait 1 second after activating the power to do this.
Guardian Fighter: Crushing Surge: Damage and Healing from this power have been increased by roughly 66%.
I am also hoping the fix to Block will make it in this week (it requires some changes to the underlying code).
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
I know this is a bit farfetched, but I feel this should be changed to a passive (yellow, class skill or whatever its called) ability. Its a huge change, and i think very great for us as a tank, but it feels more like a passive you would slot in, instead of taking up an encounter space.
Overall, I am happy with it, but please give this some thought. Also, please look into being able to use encounters from blocking, puts us more on par with the other classes.
Hey all, I wanted to drop in and share some changes and bug fixes we are making to several Guardian Fighter powers to make them more flexible and usable.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: This power no longer has a maximum duration. Once it is toggled on it must be manually toggled off. While in combat it will generate AP only while in combat and will generate every 10 seconds while in combat.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: Base cooldown reduced to 10 seconds (down from 12).
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: Ranking the power up no longer increases the duration of Knight's Valor. Additional ranks in the power reduce the damage you take from intercepted damage. Allies still transfer 50% damage regardless of rank.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Challenge: This power should no longer be cancelled accidentally when casting powers rapidly.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Challenge: This power can now be toggled off if the Guardian Figther presses the button again. You must wait 1 second after activating the power to do this.
Guardian Fighter: Crushing Surge: Damage and Healing from this power have been increased by roughly 66%.
I am also hoping the fix to Block will make it in this week (it requires some changes to the underlying code).
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Much appreciated on these fixes especially on crushing surge now a worthy single target at will. And again we need the block fix before testing can really be started again as at this point it is full of holes.
The dynamic change to KC will make things very interesting as now it is a toggle, I will enjoy playing with this skill now.
Main-Lothor Syralth Guardian Fighter
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
Hey all, I wanted to drop in and share some changes and bug fixes we are making to several Guardian Fighter powers to make them more flexible and usable.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: This power no longer has a maximum duration. Once it is toggled on it must be manually toggled off. While in combat it will generate AP only while in combat and will generate every 10 seconds while in combat.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: Base cooldown reduced to 10 seconds (down from 12).
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: Ranking the power up no longer increases the duration of Knight's Valor. Additional ranks in the power reduce the damage you take from intercepted damage. Allies still transfer 50% damage regardless of rank.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Challenge: This power should no longer be cancelled accidentally when casting powers rapidly.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Challenge: This power can now be toggled off if the Guardian Figther presses the button again. You must wait 1 second after activating the power to do this.
Guardian Fighter: Crushing Surge: Damage and Healing from this power have been increased by roughly 66%.
I am also hoping the fix to Block will make it in this week (it requires some changes to the underlying code).
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Awesome this will make actual SW healer and GF viable in pvp and pve .
GF and SW healer is a must have in both pvp and pve .
Agan AWESOOOOMMEEEE nice work Devs you are finaly fix pve tank &healer .
Hey all, I wanted to drop in and share some changes and bug fixes we are making to several Guardian Fighter powers to make them more flexible and usable.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: This power no longer has a maximum duration. Once it is toggled on it must be manually toggled off. While in combat it will generate AP only while in combat and will generate every 10 seconds while in combat.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: Base cooldown reduced to 10 seconds (down from 12).
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: Ranking the power up no longer increases the duration of Knight's Valor. Additional ranks in the power reduce the damage you take from intercepted damage. Allies still transfer 50% damage regardless of rank.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Challenge: This power should no longer be cancelled accidentally when casting powers rapidly.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Challenge: This power can now be toggled off if the Guardian Figther presses the button again. You must wait 1 second after activating the power to do this.
Guardian Fighter: Crushing Surge: Damage and Healing from this power have been increased by roughly 66%.
I am also hoping the fix to Block will make it in this week (it requires some changes to the underlying code).
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Have not tested, but very much in approval. This can make GF really really useful in Dungeons.
Hey all, I wanted to drop in and share some changes and bug fixes we are making to several Guardian Fighter powers to make them more flexible and usable.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: This power no longer has a maximum duration. Once it is toggled on it must be manually toggled off. While in combat it will generate AP only while in combat and will generate every 10 seconds while in combat.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: Base cooldown reduced to 10 seconds (down from 12).
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: Ranking the power up no longer increases the duration of Knight's Valor. Additional ranks in the power reduce the damage you take from intercepted damage. Allies still transfer 50% damage regardless of rank.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Challenge: This power should no longer be cancelled accidentally when casting powers rapidly.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Challenge: This power can now be toggled off if the Guardian Figther presses the button again. You must wait 1 second after activating the power to do this.
Guardian Fighter: Crushing Surge: Damage and Healing from this power have been increased by roughly 66%.
I am also hoping the fix to Block will make it in this week (it requires some changes to the underlying code).
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Thanks Crush, the Knights Valor change seems VERY intriguing... I can see it really making a huge difference now. This still makes me worry about GFs ability to TAKE damage outside of block.
Even with the block changes, when a GF is controlled or outside of block, it feels like wearing cloth armor. I think the biggest issue is that even though a class like GWF has "lighter" armor than GFs, they get SO much more deflect, while their actual DR is slightly lower, they STILL are much more tanky due to deflect.
PLEASE LOOK AT BUFFING AC!!!!! 2 AC for 1% DR seems REALLY LOW!
Id also like to point out some bugs: Heroic Feat: Strength Focus - does not do anything. Also other classes that have this dont have "increased effectiveness" but purely increased damage by 2/4/6% from STR.
Heroic Feat: Armor Specialization apparently does nothing as well. Maybe this is partly why GFs seem so pathetic... Also maybe this needs to be buffed up some as well...
HEROIC FEAT: PIN DOWN: Now that Frontline has been re-worked. Can this feat get changes to "The STUN duration of your powers are increased .1/.2/.3 seconds.
OTHERS: There are many others, these are more just the noticeable ones...
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited July 2014
Actual this will make the game full balanced in pve .
Why ?
GF is now a must have DC or SW healer is a must have too and last CW or HR (root cc machine).
And will open 2 slots. This can be Destoyer Executioner or HR Ranged destoyer .
Every one can be usefull agan .
I cant say it more then one time WELL DONE DEVS you will make fantastic game experience and from now own nobody have to suffer fom pve part.
Congratulation after 1 year finaly fixed PVE balance.
I dont think anithing must be changed from now own if some ppl find out hou too use this for they advantage. And dont forget PVP was never ever about 1 VS 1 is about 5VS5 or 20VS20
Id also like to point out some bugs: Heroic Feat: Armor Specialization apparently does nothing as well. Maybe this is partly why GFs seem so pathetic... Also maybe this needs to be buffed up some as well...
This does work at the very least for GWF (I never tested on GF). It essentially boosts your current DR by 5/10/15% but it DOES NOT reflect it on the character sheet. If you want to confirm whether or not it works, find any enemy and let it hit you without the feat and then with the feat (make it the same enemy just so its consistent) and you should notice that the % of damage you receive is less with the feat.
With 35.1 damage reduction on my GWF, I get 5.2% extra DR with the feat if I max it out. This should apply to GF as well, but I don't have one to test with.
Edit: just copied over the invoking GF that I completely forgot about to test the Armor Specialization and it works the exact same as GWF (applies the bonus, but doesn't reflect in the character sheet) by just letting stuff beat me up with and without the feat. It works.
The changes to KV and KC, if they work, gives the GF many choices he can use for encounters in different situations. Chrushing Surge will allow the GF to do decent single target damage and add survivability. It is appreciated that our feedback is being recognized. My only question is without changes to overall survivability are GF meant to be boss tanks(single target) and not general tanks (multiple targets) since we do not have the tools to do so? We have threat, with the changes we will have group utility, single target damage, but will not have defenses to compensate for the massive threat we will be able to produce against multiple mobs. As pointed out in several posts we have defense and deflect stats galore, but lack the feats/class features to match the other classes. I do not see this being a problem against single targets though.
Buff all GF weapon damage by 20%, remove "mark" from tab, and place Knights Valor on Tab as the Class feature...
GFs will then have decent weapon damage (basically weapon+mark damage). A really good class mechanic now (Knights valor) which opens up the ability to slot other abilities LIKE "Enforced Threat" - an AOE mark into the encounter bar. It always seemed to me that Knights Valor would make the perfect "tab" for a GF.
If you do this, "temporary marks" - like Threat Rush/Enforced Threat etc should last a fixed duration - instead of being removed when hit.
Hey all, I wanted to drop in and share some changes and bug fixes we are making to several Guardian Fighter powers to make them more flexible and usable.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: This power no longer has a maximum duration. Once it is toggled on it must be manually toggled off. While in combat it will generate AP only while in combat and will generate every 10 seconds while in combat.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: Base cooldown reduced to 10 seconds (down from 12).
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: Ranking the power up no longer increases the duration of Knight's Valor. Additional ranks in the power reduce the damage you take from intercepted damage. Allies still transfer 50% damage regardless of rank.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Challenge: This power should no longer be cancelled accidentally when casting powers rapidly.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Challenge: This power can now be toggled off if the Guardian Figther presses the button again. You must wait 1 second after activating the power to do this.
Guardian Fighter: Crushing Surge: Damage and Healing from this power have been increased by roughly 66%.
I am also hoping the fix to Block will make it in this week (it requires some changes to the underlying code).
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
WOW!, I didn't saw this, if Crushing Surge was good, now it's gona be THE At-Will (for PvP)!, also, Knight's Valor will be a huge improvement for PvE, I see that this kind of Threat and Utiliy will be good (and it's gonna have a great sinergy with my GF, Fey Thistle, Augmented Thayan Bastion, Avalanche, Renegade Evoker and Blacksmith do their job).
I disagree. I think the issue lies with what the GF is intended to do. Guardian Fighters are still fighters, same as GWFs who just CHOOSE to specialize in more "defensive" capabilities. The problem is, not only are they NOT dish out damage, they also CANT take a beating.
BOTH of these aspects need to be buffed. GFs were only fine pre-mod 2 because tenacity actually helped the LOWEST DR classes the most and hardly benefited higher DR characters like GWF/GF. Also a GFs damage abilities really shined pre-tenacity because of crit/burst damage. That has been nerfed now so even when you crit now - which is rare, it isnt as bursty as it once was. Ontop of ALL of that, classes have figured out how to counter block and each class has multiple ways to do so. So prior to that, most pvpers didnt honestly know how to counter block which made it seem much more useful than it actually was...
A Conq GF should be arguably the LEAST tanky of the GFs but spit out the most damage. Not as high as a Striker class, but arguably in the same range, they sacrifice tankiness and group support to deal more damage - this currently is REALLY LACKING!
A Prot GF should lose damage for more defensive characteristics. Again lacking
Tact -blah blah Utility.
PART OF THE PROBLEM IS FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCES IN THE GAME.
Guardian Fighters get the lowest weapon damage - ok fine... But AC has been vastly undervalued in this game. So GFs get the raw end of the deal with very low damage (and damage potential) as well as being hurt very badly on the defensive side of things.
Should a guardian fighter ONLY be tanky when using a shield to block? NO. They should feel tanky 24/7 as they are wearing frikin plate armor.... They have the slowest run speed, with ZERO feats/features to increase that. They have zero feats/ features to increase deflect (higher than other classes)/crit either. This is part of the fundamental problem.
- Just think of the HR here... Im fairly certain they have a feat that grants them 10% deflect in melee stance? Either THIS (and other classes) needs to be in the form of pure stats. or MAYBE the GF needs to get some love...
AC - typically a HUGE defensive variable, has been horribly translated over, so the GF gets the raw end of both deals - low damage, low weapon damage, and the ONE thing they SHOULD excel at is high AC.
This is why I STILL propose (and I hope people back me up here)
CON = HP/ARP/AP gain.
DEX = 1% deflect (up from .5%) and .5% CRIT (from 0%).
AC re-worked to 2% DR every 3 AC (UP FROM 1% DR every 2 AC)
THEN add more crit into the Conq Tree and for the Capstone make it pure damage (maybe 10% @ 3 stacks).
This NOW allows the GF conqs to deal a moderate amount of damage and retain SOME tankiness.
This allows Prot GFs to be MUCH tankier (with more AC benefits and now the damage reductions are that much more potent)
and NOW allows tacts to still have a mix of both
Comments
if you want to tank roll a sent GWF, if you want to do both roll a destroyer GWF thats what all this boils down too.
if you want to stand around the enclave and look cool in your full plate armor roll a GF simple as that this class is in the dumps with no hopes of recovering it unless certain things happen.
feedback
1. our damage needs to be boosted on all at wills by i would say 10% maybe more
2. our horrendously broken block on preview needs to be fixed ASAP
3. we need to have at least 10-15% more DR than any GWF should ever have
4. our protector capstone should give us 10% deflect heck we could even use more deflect maybe dex should give us 1% per point .GWF can hit over 40% at max GF's can hit 30% with having to sacrafice other stats this shouldnt happen it should come naturally to us these are problems with development since GWF are way ahead of us in the curve and if we truly are suppose to be a tank class then make us one dont just say it.
5. all our abilitys that help a group should be buffed by 15%
6.we are not a tank class but we could be with the right changes GF"S definately need more survivability if this is going to happen since crush has stated we are suppose to be the tanks of this game but our role has been replaced by GWF.
i would switch plate agility out for bravery in a heart beat i would get rid of the protector capstone and give us the sentinels you see everything the sentinel has makes them 4x better at tanking than us it's sad but guys the GF is a dead class when it comes to being a tank it's never gonna happen
Originally Posted by gentlemancrush:
" we do want to reinforce that at his core the Guardian Fighter is NOT a DPS class. While he has options for increasing his damage and being far more disruptive, his primary role in a party should still be controlling mobs with aggro and enabling allies to get into a strong position. The Conqueror tree was (and still is) intended to let players who wish to rely more on THEIR allies healing abilities and their own skills to survive these onslaughts so they can contribute more damage to the team."
feedback^^^then make it so chris give us a big boost to our defense and deflect to coincide with the ability now to aggro 20+mobs by spamming enforced threat it's a joke you guys give our counter part more DR more Deflect more DPS(which i dont mind not haveing alot of it would be nice to be an actual tank) and more more ways to move.
but you buffed GWF so much in this department that in retrospect GF's have lagged miles behind you want us to fill this roll but give us no options or defense to survive this onslaught of critters our DR is terrible our deflect is atrocious these both need to be boosted if you want us to be tank if not just come out and say "hey guys sorry but we actually just dont know what to do with this class"
take a step back and look at what your saying, if you want to enforce us as tanks make it so cause right now our counterparts have it way better and they carry 2handers and wear scale mail how can you not see the problem there. for the love of kelemvor think hard about this because with those quotes its redundant.
personally i could care less about a damage increase what i do care about is being shoehorned into a "tank" role without any actual means to accomplish this role we have 4x less defense than our scale wearing brothers it just makes no sense and is backwards beyond everything you said about it chris.
everyone is on this damage kick sure it's nice but it wont fix the problem as a whole we need 4x more defenese if we are to be tanking 20+ mobs with enforced threat right now our block is screwed our defenses/deflect are 4x less than our counterparts and our capstones are useless with the exception of the new tactician one. if you cant see the problem with this picture and are still trying to enforce our role as tanks i give up.
im just hopeing they make a paladin one of these days so i can take all my enchants and ad and start fresh on hopefully a decent plate wearing class.
Replies: 924
Views: 46,344<---not much to show for it
Feedback: Guard Walk Speed
I think 85% is still a little bit too high. 75% is fine with me.
Threatening rush is a must have mob collecting power and it gives us movement more or less too rounding things up.
Frontline Serge can get us out of being surrounded and dead. If mobs get behind our block we die afterall.
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
Please keep this thread for feedback.
Do not debate with other users. Do not post speculations.
And do try to keep the feedback based on the current changes on the Preview Shard.
Additionally please try to keep the feedback as tweaks to the existing changes. The number one cause of the debates and discussions are valid feedback that are in fact wish lists.
Those types of suggestions are not bad and these changes were absolutely derived from the various wish lists and debates we have had on the forums for months now...
But this thread is not the place for them.
Try to keep the feedback at least somewhat related to the current changes. If you read your post and it can be summarized as 'I don't agree with these changes and want the devs to do something completely different than what is on the Preview Shard and Live Server' it more than likely should be posted somewhere besides the Official Feedback threads.
It doesn't make them bad ideas but, if for no other reason than organisation of feedback, game changing suggestions more often than not do not belong in the feedback threads.
With the current preview guard mechanic allowing 20% damage even through blocked attacks, its imperative that the GF be given more deflection as we need to be able to mitigate more damage, once guard is down we are completely helpless. This applies to both PvE and PvP...
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
GFs now on PTR still have broken block, not working as intended, which is hurting us alot. Even once fixed though it seems to me that GFs DR needs to be boosted.
A clever idea was to boost tue impact AC has on the class. In PnP AC is HUGE but here its a joke... Buffing AC could give GFs the tankiness needed to survive
However GWFs can get north of 35-40% deflect fairly easily where as a GF struggles to get 25%.
Also a GWF can get north of 30-40% crit very easily where as a GF has to max stack crit just to touch 21%ish (in pvp).
Again a REALLY easy way to fix these two issues:
Move ARP onto CON. Give DEX = 1% deflect per point AND add crit (.5%) to DEX as well
With the above post in mind, hopefully we can get some "agreement" as to the proper direction of the GF... What do people think about THESE changes?
CUMULATIVE CHANGES TO GF:
1) CON = ADDED 1% ARP per point. Keep AP gain and HP.
DEX = 1% Deflection per point. .5% CRIT added per point.
2) Boost the effectiveness of AC ALOT. Instead of 2 AC = 1%DR, maybe 3AC = 2% DR. This would be a 50% increase in AC/DR meaning most GFs would gain about 15% DR?
3) TACTICAL SUPERIORITY - Now grants 1/2/3/4/5% More Crit when Combat Superiority is slotted ONTOP of the 1/2/3/4/5% dmg boost. (This seems STILL lackluster for a T4 feat btw but acceptable
4) RECKLESS ATTACKER Now grants 3 stacks @ 10% damage boost - applied by the GF's attacks. Lasts 10 seconds.
All of these changes total:
- Buffs AC effectiveness (NEEDED)
- Buffs GFs Deflection (NEEDED)
- Allows for GFs to get DECENT crit (MAX would be 7%-7.5% from DEX and 5% more from TS now - 12% total boost)
- Allows for fair damage boost to Reckless - with adding crit to other places instead.
ALL of this allows for the GF to me more of a walking tank, and even with all these changes the GF STILL wont be considered a DPS class, but atleast now Conq can deal SOME damage and still maintain SOME tankiness, Now the Protector tree would be THAT much more tanky. These changes IMO are needed. There are others as well but I chose to focus on just a few areas....
A GF should never have as high deflect because how can you hold a shield and focuss on deflecting with one hand more or less.
Now our DR on the other hands should be buffed and GWF's scale lowered say to say 85% DR. Buff their deflect though.
What I mean is:
A GWF's Armor at say 4,600 should be the same as A GF's at 4,000 and have around the same DR%
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
Not sure I completely understand where you are coming from on that. A real shield's only purpose is to deflect attacks. Why would that mean a GF should deflect less?
Feedback: Deflection
Deflection is one of the key defensive stats in this game. The GF gets lots of items with defelction on it and cain raise the score fairly high, but without feats that non tank classes get we still fall behind them in deflect percentage by a large margin.
This is really hurting the survivability of the class. Modilfiers only help when they are being added to soemthing. 10% (from deflection on items) added to a base with feats of around 15% only =25%. A class with less deflect adding 8% (from a lower amount of deflection on items) to a base of 25% with feats is 33% So the "tank" ends up only blocking 1 in 4 even though he geared for deflecting and the "dps" deflects 1 in 3. This is wrong.
Feedback: Block
Although block is suppose to stop a large portion of damage, it does not because it is currently not working as intended. I understand that is "suppose" to be fixed and will help immensely. The true problem is that as stated before GF is NOT suppose to be a dps class. I think it would be safer to assume the role was to be a tank since thats what most shield wielding characters in every game have been. As the key ability for defending, block has a very glaring weakness. It is the only shift ability that does not give protection from every angle. If something is behind the GF his shift ability does nothing. With mobs being pushed around and players able to think, it is almost impossible to keep everything infront of you. If the GF is suppose to be the tank, it needs a reliable way to stop the damage, not be the only class that's shift doesnt protect from all angles.
I disagree. I think the issue lies with what the GF is intended to do. Guardian Fighters are still fighters, same as GWFs who just CHOOSE to specialize in more "defensive" capabilities. The problem is, not only are they NOT dish out damage, they also CANT take a beating.
BOTH of these aspects need to be buffed. GFs were only fine pre-mod 2 because tenacity actually helped the LOWEST DR classes the most and hardly benefited higher DR characters like GWF/GF. Also a GFs damage abilities really shined pre-tenacity because of crit/burst damage. That has been nerfed now so even when you crit now - which is rare, it isnt as bursty as it once was. Ontop of ALL of that, classes have figured out how to counter block and each class has multiple ways to do so. So prior to that, most pvpers didnt honestly know how to counter block which made it seem much more useful than it actually was...
A Conq GF should be arguably the LEAST tanky of the GFs but spit out the most damage. Not as high as a Striker class, but arguably in the same range, they sacrifice tankiness and group support to deal more damage - this currently is REALLY LACKING!
A Prot GF should lose damage for more defensive characteristics. Again lacking
Tact -blah blah Utility.
PART OF THE PROBLEM IS FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCES IN THE GAME.
Guardian Fighters get the lowest weapon damage - ok fine... But AC has been vastly undervalued in this game. So GFs get the raw end of the deal with very low damage (and damage potential) as well as being hurt very badly on the defensive side of things.
Should a guardian fighter ONLY be tanky when using a shield to block? NO. They should feel tanky 24/7 as they are wearing frikin plate armor.... They have the slowest run speed, with ZERO feats/features to increase that. They have zero feats/ features to increase deflect (higher than other classes)/crit either. This is part of the fundamental problem.
- Just think of the HR here... Im fairly certain they have a feat that grants them 10% deflect in melee stance? Either THIS (and other classes) needs to be in the form of pure stats. or MAYBE the GF needs to get some love...
AC - typically a HUGE defensive variable, has been horribly translated over, so the GF gets the raw end of both deals - low damage, low weapon damage, and the ONE thing they SHOULD excel at is high AC.
This is why I STILL propose (and I hope people back me up here)
CON = HP/ARP/AP gain.
DEX = 1% deflect (up from .5%) and .5% CRIT (from 0%).
AC re-worked to 2% DR every 3 AC (UP FROM 1% DR every 2 AC)
THEN add more crit into the Conq Tree and for the Capstone make it pure damage (maybe 10% @ 3 stacks).
This NOW allows the GF conqs to deal a moderate amount of damage and retain SOME tankiness.
This allows Prot GFs to be MUCH tankier (with more AC benefits and now the damage reductions are that much more potent)
and NOW allows tacts to still have a mix of both
I agree with all this and really hope one day it is fixed so we the "tank" class have good defense. I don't want to have the best dmg but we should not have less than a cleric since as ayroux already said, we are a fighter class too.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
i 1000% back you on this and it is sorely needed for this class.
the reasons i brought up/compare our counter parts the GWF are these
feedback
a GWF can reach 45% deflect simply by putting 3 points into bravery which isn't even a feat but a class skill btw(14%) haveing weapon master slotted/feated(10%) and haveing 5/5 in scale agility(5%) thats a super easy 29% deflect right there now all they need is a low end stat from gear which they can hit 30% easy with the right gear ontop of that they have near a base DR like us with sentinel capstone increaseing this by 20%
VS
a GF who only has plate agility 5/5 (5%) and to get even 30% deflect we have to sacrafice alot in other stats also if you want a high DR you have to do this aswell see my point something is backwards here.
especially since crush has stated we are not DPS we are tanks well i hate to break it to you but how about they reinforce GWF roll as DPS strikers and not tanks.
to say reinforce means we were tanks from the beginning but none and i mean none of our feats/skills give us any means to fulfill this roll GF's should easily hit 45% deflect and close to 60%DR but that is impossible unless you gimp your character.
now consider this with the new threat hitting 20 mobs that are now swarming you we should have higher DR and deflect to survive this onslaught this needs to happen.
the problem is GF's have all the skills to make them a walking singularity in dungeons but the devs have implemented this poorly. if we had a higher base DR a higher base deflect we could spam enforced threat every 10 seconds while holding 20 mobs on us with the help of a healer but we will just drop in a matter of seconds due to our low defense
thats why i was comparing the 2. GWF A STRIKER CLASS NOT A TANK REINFORCE THAT WHY DONT YA should not have more DR/Deflect than the tank that has been reinforced by crush it just doesnt make sense the logic is wrong and the development is wrong hence why saying we are the tank class is redundant.
im fine with haveing low end damage if i wanted to dps i would roll a GWF or any other striker class but i wanted to be a tank but this class is so far from a tank it's laughable our DR and Deflect need to be upped 4x as much. tanks should absorb damage while holding mobs with threat currently we can hold the threat but not absorb the incoming damage well.
and if the devs truly want to reinforce this then that needs to happen
1. Knights Valor: reset as class feature keep at 50% but cut the damage we gfs get from it to 20%. Having it as an encounter with cd is bad because we can't recast it if cced and its needed for the other melee classes.
2. Shield Wall: encounter A wall that is placed behind you in a 45 degree cone. Gives the 80% block for a few seconds to all members in the cone. But as soon as they leave cone def bonues is gone like astral shield. Basicly it could save lifes.
3. Make plate have a higher DR than Scale. eg GWFS 4600 = GFS 4000 at 85% Same DR at that level
4. Make our Armor Defence soft cap alot higher because we are a tank class.
5. Buff Iron Vanguard rather than Swordmaster.
6. Make Cleave Hit 180 Degrees and make it 10% faster.
7. Make Crushing Serge A little faster.
8. Add The ability to use certain encounters behind block such as Villians Menace and Fighters Recovery. Tanking would be alot easyer with this if we can cast thoese then lower block and use one skill. problem is with lots of mobs its hard to use fighters recovery then launch an encounter to start to heal ourself without being ragdolled.
9. Fix the stam block as it is currently bugged. Block falling before stams gone and such.
10. Add Crit stat to Dex even if its only say .5%
Well that about sums up how to fix this class in one post. We don't need our damage boosted much because this is a tank class.
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: This power no longer has a maximum duration. Once it is toggled on it must be manually toggled off. While in combat it will generate AP only while in combat and will generate every 10 seconds while in combat.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: Base cooldown reduced to 10 seconds (down from 12).
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: Ranking the power up no longer increases the duration of Knight's Valor. Additional ranks in the power reduce the damage you take from intercepted damage. Allies still transfer 50% damage regardless of rank.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Challenge: This power should no longer be cancelled accidentally when casting powers rapidly.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Challenge: This power can now be toggled off if the Guardian Figther presses the button again. You must wait 1 second after activating the power to do this.
Guardian Fighter: Crushing Surge: Damage and Healing from this power have been increased by roughly 66%.
I am also hoping the fix to Block will make it in this week (it requires some changes to the underlying code).
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
These are actually very good changes!
These are interesting changes.
But without a functioning block, no test will be worth much. I hope you'll get it working.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
I know this is a bit farfetched, but I feel this should be changed to a passive (yellow, class skill or whatever its called) ability. Its a huge change, and i think very great for us as a tank, but it feels more like a passive you would slot in, instead of taking up an encounter space.
Overall, I am happy with it, but please give this some thought. Also, please look into being able to use encounters from blocking, puts us more on par with the other classes.
Much appreciated on these fixes especially on crushing surge now a worthy single target at will. And again we need the block fix before testing can really be started again as at this point it is full of holes.
The dynamic change to KC will make things very interesting as now it is a toggle, I will enjoy playing with this skill now.
Awesome this will make actual SW healer and GF viable in pvp and pve .
GF and SW healer is a must have in both pvp and pve .
Agan AWESOOOOMMEEEE nice work Devs you are finaly fix pve tank &healer .
Have not tested, but very much in approval. This can make GF really really useful in Dungeons.
Thanks Crush, the Knights Valor change seems VERY intriguing... I can see it really making a huge difference now. This still makes me worry about GFs ability to TAKE damage outside of block.
Even with the block changes, when a GF is controlled or outside of block, it feels like wearing cloth armor. I think the biggest issue is that even though a class like GWF has "lighter" armor than GFs, they get SO much more deflect, while their actual DR is slightly lower, they STILL are much more tanky due to deflect.
PLEASE LOOK AT BUFFING AC!!!!! 2 AC for 1% DR seems REALLY LOW!
Id also like to point out some bugs:
Heroic Feat: Strength Focus - does not do anything. Also other classes that have this dont have "increased effectiveness" but purely increased damage by 2/4/6% from STR.
Heroic Feat: Armor Specialization apparently does nothing as well. Maybe this is partly why GFs seem so pathetic... Also maybe this needs to be buffed up some as well...
HEROIC FEAT: PIN DOWN: Now that Frontline has been re-worked. Can this feat get changes to "The STUN duration of your powers are increased .1/.2/.3 seconds.
OTHERS: There are many others, these are more just the noticeable ones...
Why ?
GF is now a must have DC or SW healer is a must have too and last CW or HR (root cc machine).
And will open 2 slots. This can be Destoyer Executioner or HR Ranged destoyer .
Every one can be usefull agan .
I cant say it more then one time WELL DONE DEVS you will make fantastic game experience and from now own nobody have to suffer fom pve part.
Congratulation after 1 year finaly fixed PVE balance.
I dont think anithing must be changed from now own if some ppl find out hou too use this for they advantage. And dont forget PVP was never ever about 1 VS 1 is about 5VS5 or 20VS20
This does work at the very least for GWF (I never tested on GF). It essentially boosts your current DR by 5/10/15% but it DOES NOT reflect it on the character sheet. If you want to confirm whether or not it works, find any enemy and let it hit you without the feat and then with the feat (make it the same enemy just so its consistent) and you should notice that the % of damage you receive is less with the feat.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?706381-feat-GWF-GF-does-not-work
With 35.1 damage reduction on my GWF, I get 5.2% extra DR with the feat if I max it out. This should apply to GF as well, but I don't have one to test with.
Edit: just copied over the invoking GF that I completely forgot about to test the Armor Specialization and it works the exact same as GWF (applies the bonus, but doesn't reflect in the character sheet) by just letting stuff beat me up with and without the feat. It works.
Why not:
Buff all GF weapon damage by 20%, remove "mark" from tab, and place Knights Valor on Tab as the Class feature...
GFs will then have decent weapon damage (basically weapon+mark damage). A really good class mechanic now (Knights valor) which opens up the ability to slot other abilities LIKE "Enforced Threat" - an AOE mark into the encounter bar. It always seemed to me that Knights Valor would make the perfect "tab" for a GF.
If you do this, "temporary marks" - like Threat Rush/Enforced Threat etc should last a fixed duration - instead of being removed when hit.
WOW!, I didn't saw this, if Crushing Surge was good, now it's gona be THE At-Will (for PvP)!, also, Knight's Valor will be a huge improvement for PvE, I see that this kind of Threat and Utiliy will be good (and it's gonna have a great sinergy with my GF, Fey Thistle, Augmented Thayan Bastion, Avalanche, Renegade Evoker and Blacksmith do their job).
Great changes.
^^^
+1
Fully agree.