well with the new one we can make it so it is up 100% of the time, but im really curious as to the response i want to know what he/she thinks what makes old block so grand that the devs should consider keeping it
This is the mentality that is winning here, why would anyone want to block 100% of the time, I thought we were a fighter class, you should not deal damage while hiding behind a shield.
Have any of you tried playing without using your shield, I don't think so, yet everyone camps and insults those of us that do. I didn't need a shield neither did Embracemysword, Ctf4void, Colonelwing and perhaps a few others, we found we can sacrifice the shield to give massive DPS and survive, maybe you all could take a few lessons.
It has been stated those above 5395X2=10790 power will see a slight dps loss, yeah how bout almost 4k in power loss, plus the associated damage that 4k in power will generate. Please do not try and sell me on the idea that crit is going to make up the remaining difference, crit is a non constant variable, it cannot be calculated into a fixed damage formula. Sure sometimes you will hit with more damage, but how often its a variable not fixed. Sure if you could get a GF with close to 50% crit I might agree, but you can't on a GF, its hard enough on a rouge to get that high. SO crit is a low solution variable not ment to be used in any damage based formula.
After these last statements from crush, and especially since I saw him post on the GWF forums he was going to be on there with pewpew to PVP with the other gwf's yesterday, I know whats coming.
SO I will be joining colonelwing and embracemysword and perhaps a few others still on the borderline.
I know someone like ICE will come on here and make a quote like this again:
Q.Q good cya never
This is the mentality that is winning here, why would anyone want to block 100% of the time, I thought we were a fighter class, you should not deal damage while hiding behind a shield.
Have any of you tried playing without using your shield, I don't think so, snip
Well, in my load out I use Bull Rush, Lunging Strike, and Griffin's with Threatening Rush and Cleave right now.
First of all, I acknowledge the gist of everything you said to be absolutely true.
Second, there is a glitch that allows blocking 100% of the time with Mark using tab...
Now with that said. I think the overarcing point of this module is to round out every class as much as possible so we don't get a repeat of the HR debut.
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noerqMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 26Arc User
Secondly, the stacking mechanic. While I am not diametrically opposed to 3 stacks at 10% and 4% that is a far more substantive buff (39% damage buff rather than 32.5%. This equates to 6474 Power) and we do want to reinforce that at his core the Guardian Fighter is NOT a DPS class. While he has options for increasing his damage and being far more disruptive, his primary role in a party should still be controlling mobs with aggro and enabling allies to get into a strong position. The Conqueror tree was (and still is) intended to let players who wish to rely more on their allies healing abilities and their own skills to survive these onslaughts so they can contribute more damage to the team. It could be roughly equated to a Risk/Reward tree, which is where the original Reckless Attacker came from. Conqueror is also intended to provide a strong and viable solo play option for players who prefer to play that way as well.
While i appreciate what you are trying to do for us GFs, I am absolutely sure that this will change NOTHING for us. Why? Simple. We are already "controllers" and, with good gear, already able to tank the **** out of every dungeon. We are still not wanted in groups. And we will never be if you don't change your "it's not a DPS class" attitude. The majority of players doesn't give a **** about the purpose of a class. They give a **** about how fast they can faceroll through dungeons. And without every class being able to kick out a hell lot of more DPS than us, noone will want us after the patch.
(ah and by the way: GWFs are still tankier than GFs. Thank you.)
Agreed, the HR is WAY too tanky. Primarily because of their dodge mechanic as well as some of their other buffs. Honestly Aspect of the Lone Wolf should be reversed. Instead of lowering your DR for each player near you, you should gain DR in proportion to the number of player near you. Thus you become more tanky the more players near you. I think in 1v1 situations this is causing the HR to be FAR too tanky and it seems counter-intuitive to me. In 1v1, they should gain very little DR boost, but surrounded by 5 opponants, this is their class feature that allows them to actually survive.
What do you think of my above proposition? 1500 power + 4% crit stacks 3 times.
If you have 14k power, this would put you back to 7k+4500 = 11,500 power. But gaining 12% Crit is another 9% DPS.
While its a DPS loss, for you to get 14k power you had to lose quite a bit of defensive stats PLUS the ability to use your shield. So this change you still lose about 15% DPS on power, but gain 9% back as crit.
So a total loss of 6% but you gained 12% MORE from mark now so roughly still a DPS boost. This also still allows you to use your shield, AND swap out for more defensive stats or heck even crit/recovery if you would like.
People are saying they shouldnt be catering to the "few pvpers" or the "minority" well... I dont know many GFs who power stack 14k power and if they do, I can guarantee they do not perform well in PVP. These changes (along with some of the others Crush has rolled out) I think will make it a better experience for GFs even in PVE as well.
The cap on ET getting bumped is a massive DPS boost, plus the ability to block increases survivability. That and also all marked targets grant teammates CA? That seems like a reason to bring a GF to me. Plus now that GWFs are not as tanky, CWs dont deal as much damage, it balanced the field MUCH more for the GF that can tank, to also deal decent damage.
Almost feels like reading fiction. 14K Power ? Who even has that much ? And a GF having that much would mean absolutely crappy other stats. Such one-trick pony GF is not reliable at all. In a single pvp match, after you burst a few players they will take note of you and you will be focused till the end. A proper Conq GF has around 4000K base Power in order to have ~2000 Crit/ArmPen/Recovery and ~ 4000 Defence and 1500-2000 Deflect and ~ 1500 Regen.
The Reckless on Preview is quite good in solo PVE and solo PVP ( meaning one on one duels ) an I expect far greater things after the +%damage stacks start working properly. The Guard currently on Preview is quite good too, it allows us to move around well and actually have more uptime shielded ( I can get behind the enemy and hit ToI very fast ). Many GFs I think view the Shield as something they absolutely must use all the time and that is wrong. You are not supposed to always walk around hiding behind the board.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I messaged you, but I will ask here, are you opposed to merging Villains Menace and Fighters Recovery? This would help the GF immensely as they would no longer have to choose freedom, or healing themselves...
I would tone it down some and limit the healing received by a capped % of course, remove the bonus damage on Villains and just use the immunity but this would be an amazing change!
Dont know bout Crush, but I for one am opposed to this. If they merge them and keep both working as they are, it would result in an insanely powerful Daily, couple that with our very reliable AP generation and you have the new unkillable GF who is not only immune to damage for 5 secs but also heals to full HP + deals alot more damage + is CC immune = nerf. Id rather keep my dailies as they are and pick what to use & when to use. As for you dude, if you want to have unstoppable so much just roll a GWF alt.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Hey guys, I wanted to step in and talk about Reckless Attacker and some of the logic behind the change.
First, for those who believe they are getting nerfed. There is actually a power breakpoint where you *would* in theory see a nerf from this change, however it is very high. Reckless Attacker while fully stacked (which in regular content/combat should be fairly straight forward as stacking does not at this time have an ICD) grants 25% base damage and 10% crit (which for someone with no severity increases equates to 7.5% increased damage over the lifetime of of the character). This means a 32.5% damage bonus just from being struck. This means that if your build has more than 5395 Power you will see a slight decrease in damage, however you also gain the ability to use your shield more flexibly and freely without risking dropping below that value. This also frees up many of those stat points to be placed in other locations where you aren't at the DR caps yet. Overall this is a strong buff to the vast majority of GF players, and to those who had the stats and skills where this might be a nerf you will instead see a drastic increase in your combat flexibility and options for any given moment because you no longer have to worry that incoming damage should or shouldn't be blocked.
Secondly, the stacking mechanic. While I am not diametrically opposed to 3 stacks at 10% and 4% that is a far more substantive buff (39% damage buff rather than 32.5%. This equates to 6474 Power) and we do want to reinforce that at his core the Guardian Fighter is NOT a DPS class. While he has options for increasing his damage and being far more disruptive, his primary role in a party should still be controlling mobs with aggro and enabling allies to get into a strong position. The Conqueror tree was (and still is) intended to let players who wish to rely more on their allies healing abilities and their own skills to survive these onslaughts so they can contribute more damage to the team. It could be roughly equated to a Risk/Reward tree, which is where the original Reckless Attacker came from. Conqueror is also intended to provide a strong and viable solo play option for players who prefer to play that way as well.
Finally, as to the other two capstone feats. We will be making some buffs to those as well to better reinforce the roles of the particular trees they are members of.
Protector: Iron Guard: Now stacks 4 times, reducing enemy damage by 5% per stack (Maximum reduction of 20%, up from 10%).
Tactician: Martial Mastery: This feat now generates AP for allies within 50' any time you take damage. You no longer have to not be blocking for this effect to work.
Hopefully that clears up some of the thought process on these changes.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
EDIT: These two changes will not be in this week's preview push. It is much more likely that they will be in next week's push.
Chris first of all thank you for looking at us ,we know how you guys are all pressed with mod 4 coming and we appreciate that you try to keep NW in the elite of the action MMOs.
However:
"Reckless Attacker while fully stacked (which in regular content/combat should be fairly straight forward as stacking does not at this time have an ICD) grants 25% base damage and 10% crit (which for someone with no severity increases equates to 7.5% increased damage over the lifetime of of the character)."
You cannot add crit and damage and make a final result.As others said,crit is an inconsistent stat.In pvp where the encounters are short and brutal even with 25% crit you might never achieve a critical hit.It is just random.That is why we ask for more damage.
" While I am not diametrically opposed to 3 stacks at 10% and 4% that is a far more substantive buff (39% damage buff rather than 32.5%"
Would a compromise of 3 stacks of 10% more damage plus 3 stacks of 3% added critical for a total 30% more damage and 9% critical ,seem fair to you?
I think the 90% of the Conqs that are against the new RA ,would agree to a 30% /9% new RA.
I know, and you just said as the most authentic voice that GF is a controller class.You want to keep in line with trinity theory.
But you know that the other classes do not fit into the trinity theory either.Uber tanky HRs,n1 DPS CWs,ubertanks GWF Sents etc....Is so bad for the balance of the game to give us a 30%/9% new RA?Please think about it.
You spoke about control.
What about control powers?Empowered Griffon's Wrath is so slow that is extremely difficult to land succesive hits.
Crushing Pin (after investing whole 5 points into it) gives a mere 10% more damage for THREE secs.Three secs is just a cleave swing.it is too low.
Into the fray gives minimum HP to party.Why not increase that aspect a little?
Crushing surge animation is so slow that really looks like broken.And it is in that state from day number one.Can its animation speed up a little?
As you saw we are not so few the Gfs as many thought.many that play GFs are more mature in age and more influential people.Bringing more people to NW which is good for all.Please do not bitter us ,give us some attention by improving our class!!
Bug: Guard Contrary to what was stated by devs, guard is ignoring your baseline DR, and this means it becomes worse the better your defense get, and not the other way around.
For example, on my GF this actually makes guard do a -50% damage and not a -80%
Bug Armor Specialization still does not work
Strength focus does nothing for our strength
Knights challenge is still extremely buggy and the delay makes the skill unusable. And also a lot of time the skill goes gray for minutes at a time and i have to re slot it in.
Bug: Guard Break
Most of the time once all your Stamina is drained the Guard doesn't break, the GF just stops guarding.
Instead, the system fires off Guard Breaks randomly when your Stamina is still filled. You start guarding, at 50% (or whatever) the guard meter turns red, but the char remains in guard motion and is actually still guarding according to the ACT:
The marked Guard Break appeared at ~40% of the Stamina and you can see that the following attacks are still correctly being guarded although the system continues to fire a series of additional Breaks.
Bug: Guard Spec: Protector (For whatever reason I couldn't duplicate the bug easily so I don't know if it exists in other specs too. I would assume it will.) At some points in time when the Guard is full, despite using the Guard continuously, the Guard Meter does not degenerate / deplete AT ALL. I have been unable to duplicate this bug repeatedly yet I have noticed it previously while in combat but have dropped Guard to use an Encounter. Eventually, when this bug reoccurred, I WAS ABLE TO HOLD THE GUARD UP INDEFINITELY WITHOUT ANY LOSS OF GUARD METER. I managed to maintain this permanent Guard for 17 minutes. I gave up after this as I couldn't be bothered holding Shift any longer. There did not seem to be a discernible limit in place on how long the Guard would remain in this state. The Guard seemed to work as it would otherwise in that it reduced damage taken accordingly. I could not define a clear reason why this state occurred and was not able to replicate it at will. However, the bug only seems to occur once the Guard Meter is full.
Guarded Assault also does not proc weapon enchants like Plague Fire, Fire Bile, ect it should considering you are the one damaging the opponent i dont know if this a bug or not but i dont see why it shouldnt it's like this on live. however it does proc with briartwine and the like armor enchantments also it does proc Teneberous so why not weapon enchants?
Bug: Shield When controlled, holding shift won't make you hold shield up when contol is over, you need to release and press shift again for it to be hold up.
From what I have found via testing. Our block is not where it is going to be.
Block
Block is capped at 80% DR. And since it is DR, things like thornward can reduce it zero, so I am holding my shield and taking full damage. So once that is fixed it will be a beast. I was able to keep near continuous block for 50 seconds of a minute, and that was max feated, max artifacts, max strength, max stamina gain via boons, so that could be good, but it should be increased because with that set up you aren't going to hurt anything. But like I said, currently it can be mitigated to nothing
Capstone
5% damage is rough testing right now, the crit is ok, but 20% damage increase will be a BIG noticeable difference.
Before anyone tests again
Lets let Crush fix the block, if it is meant to be mitigated, then I would then suggest a revert and leaving the capstone where it is. If our block can be mitigated, there are some classes that can reduce it zero, essentially making it useless.
now there are a lot of repeats of the same ones through these 87 pages so i just took one that has multiple bug reports and put it in here if i am missing any go through the pages and please add them
You are counted as part of this. You generate the AP as well
As far as block goes, it is currently *bugged* and is not providing the full amount of resistance that it should. As far as it being mitigated I have no idea what you mean by that, so I can't really answer. If you are talking about more damage getting through block as your damage resistance is reduced (via Armor Pen or a debuff) then this is true, but was also true with the old block mechanic (it would take more damage because your Damage Resistance did matter). I will need some clarity on what effect is being referenced before I can provide any more information.
we mean that for
example skills like thronward, enfeeblement ext ext ext are reducing our guard DR down to 0% and not our player DR and if it worked that way with old block it did not seem to now with us taking 20% damage through our block it makes it useless.
or at least come here and explain how it's suppose to work for us i get that we can be mitigated but if players can null out our block to the point where 20%dmg isnt getting through it is now 100% dmg while guard is up.is this working as intended and if so this should not happen other than the fact all our other defences are not in the equation while guarding which you have stated is a bug then which DR is suppose to be mitigated while blocking . our block should not be the one being mitgated but our current player DR should this is wrong in so many ways and is not working.
feedback put our block on a seperate DR that cant be mitigated
3 secs is extremely low.We are talking for a mere 10% more damage here.If it was 20% damage ,ok then 3 secs will be sufficient.But 10% more damage for just 3 secs?And after investing 5 (five ) points to it? I think it is too low.Either its damage must improve(i don't see it with the mentality going around) or its duration.5-6 secs would be great i think.
Would a compromise of 3 stacks of 10% more damage plus 3 stacks of 3% added critical for a total 30% more damage and 9% critical ,seem fair to you?
I think the 90% of the Conqs that are against the new RA ,would agree to a 30% /9% new RA.
While this isnt a bad idea at all, I am much more in favor of added crit chance since that is a MAJOR thing lacking for GFs. With no good weapon enchants that we can work with because of low weapon damage and slow hits - which rules out a majority of weapon enchants, the ones left are "effect" enchants like GPF, Bronzewood, Feytouched, Terror, or Vorpal.
No matter the damage scaling enchants like GPF/Terror etc will have roughly the same effect, reducing the crit chance though makes something like Vorpal even LESS viable for our class. Id honestly like to see a crit build viable for GFs.
That said, maybe the solution is to remove some of the crit chance on the capstone, and give it somewhere else.
Tactical Superiority Is a Feat that for a Tier 4 offers VERY little in the way of damage... +5% more? Maybe a solution is to give THIS feat +5% more crit as a base ONTOP of the 5% damage boost.
THEN you can take Reckless Attacker, and reduce the crit there to much less. Say 3 stacks @ 10% damage and 2% Crit.
I think this would be much more fair, it spreads out the damage boosts, gives crit in other areas... I mean for a T4 feat thats pretty lacking, and arguable the new RA is too powerful of a capstone...
What?! You really just said him and me are the same person? Could it be that we use the same English? Could be from the same area of the country? And maybe type on a qwerty keyboard which leads people to make the same mistakes typing similar words?
The fact that you spend that much time in your day is kind of pathetic. You should spend it testing the GF .
Ok so, control powers. Is the mark not a control power? I have never gotten a for sure answer. For instance, you bull charge someone, MARK frontline MARK lunging strike. Or is the mark not considered a control power? I wish Crush could chime in on this.
I was also thinking of making a suggestion on tactical superiority as with the coming change to RA it becomes less so as it only benefits the first couple of strike which the new RA will not support and you would be better off putting those points elsewhere as since you need to be hit to gain damage tactical superiority is almost never going to be needed with the coming change to playstyle unless it adds something more than 15% damage without being hit which is counter intuitive compared to the new RA.
This exactly...
Since RA has been swapped over, what does this TIER 4 feat really add in value? 5% damage boost? Thats not alot to be honest...
Giving this T4 added crit of say 5% so that it now gives a FLAT 5% crit bonus AND 5% damage bonus with the class feature slotted (along the same lines of weapon master for GWFs - gaining crit/deflect and AC).
THEN it allows you to remove some of the crit from RA and give it more of a "damage" boost.
THEN I could see 3 stacks @ 10% damage AND 2% Crit more viable since now crit is made up for with the other feat re-work.
I would REALLY like to see GFs have a CHANCE at decent crit - for those that love crit builds. I know it may seem selfish but I personally am a fan of crit builds more so than, pure damage builds. So giving people the CHOICE I think is the Key though....
TLDR: Put crit on tactical superiority, then make RA a 3 stack @ 10% damage/2% crit and make it so the GF applies the stacks!
0
zhaofuoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 129Bounty Hunter
edited July 2014
I would love if most of our feat gets some attention since most of them are really sub-par.
Guarded Assault and Enduring Warrior -this class feature needs to be rework or get buff
For now let's just look at the bugs currently at the preview server that have come with these deep reaching changes. What can we expect regarding these bugs? To answer this question, let's just take a look into the past and how bugs were dealt with: We still experience respawning adds in Frozen Heart after the boss is dead since the open beta. For months now Terrifying Impact only deals a tiny fraction of the damage it should if the affected mobs get pulled into an arcane singularity at the same time. There are many more, we know them, and yet we see weeks without a single bug getting fixed.
I don't want to accuse anyone, I like the game and the GF class, that's why I play. I just want to point out that this is the current situation. I don't see this getting suddenly changed, especially not if a new module, a new class and possibly even a new race is at the doorstep! Will there be new bugs related to the new content? Yes, of course there will be new bugs, simply because a big chunk of new digital content will arrive at the server. Even something like an emergency server shutdown might happen. What do you think will then be the priority? To fix the fixes of our class which is one of the least popular? I don't think so.
Let's accept this situation and make the best out of it. Our class could get fixed by simply improving us instead of having this overhaul with the stamina-guard, its fallout effects and the bugs connected to them.
Even proponents of the stamin-guard and the changes connected to this guard mechanism are now worried and express dissatisfaction because of the bugs that have come with the changes at the preview server. Mr. Gentlemancrush, please pull the emergency break, drop the idea of the stamina guard and changes connected to it, and let's simply improve our class by making existing things better rather than replacing them with something else.
What tension and fierce discussions in this thread, what required additional changes to harmonize, and what new bugs have we seen that came along with making CON giving us now more hitpoints? Exactly - none. That's the way to go.
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epclipseingmoonMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
Now here is what should happen gwfs unstoppable gets re nerfed 10-20% unless sent. GWF DR loses say 5% of ours or 2% sentinal.
The core of the problem though is this:
gwfs die quickly in pve so unstoppable was unnerfed. It did not matter if there was a tank there or not aoes can hurt.
Fix:
Rework knights valor something like this
kv should not be an encounter power at all it should be made an class feature
To reduce 40% party incoming damage and let the GF take only say 20% of their damage however let the gfs dr rating reduce that.
If we had that then im sure many people would love takeing us gfs because we would be more useful than now.
Maybe add another encounter shield wall which is a 45 degree cone that appears behind you as an encounter that blocks 80% of all party damage just add a highish cd for that. It could save the party.
OK then I need some clarification. Those Totems on Preview that I like to use for gauge purposes are extremely inconsistent. One day I roll over them with my GF, the next they are next to impossible to do ( It almost like the monsters spawn in varying numbers and varying strength ). Here is some Log info I just copied. The damage those lvl 61 critters do is very high and even with the new RA buffs they dont die fast enough due to large HP pools
So, is it normal for those undead to hit 10k non crits on a GF ?
[Combat (Self)] Wight Commander deals 4662 (10044) Physical Damage to you with Melee Attack.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Regen gives 1564 (1515) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Wight Commander deals 984 (1004) Black Ice Damage to you with Black Ice Corruption.
[Combat (Self)] Your Tide of Iron deals 2388 (1511) Physical Damage to Wight Commander.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 16 (16) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Deathlock Wight deals 4767 (10273) Necrotic Damage to you with Gravebolt.
[Combat (Self)] Deathlock Wight deals 1007 (1027) Black Ice Damage to you with Black Ice Corruption.
[Combat (Self)] Deathlock Wight deals 4840 (10429) Necrotic Damage to you with Gravebolt.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Weapon Master's Strike deals 1462 Physical Damage to Wight Commander.
[Combat (Self)] Deathlock Wight deals 1022 (1043) Black Ice Damage to you with Black Ice Corruption.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 10 (10) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Your Weapon Master's Strike deals 1026 (802) Physical Damage to Wight Commander.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 7 (7) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Wight Commander deals 4806 (10355) Physical Damage to you with Melee Attack.
[Combat (Self)] You cannot use this power.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Bull Charge deals 10866 (8489) Physical Damage to Wight Commander.
[Combat (Self)] Your Soulforged Armor gives 744 (720) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Deathlock Wight deals 5585 (10460) Necrotic Damage to you with Gravebolt.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Block is still ALL sorts of messed up right now. If I am taking a beating alot of times the meter shows red and shows I have none left, although I just pressed it - I think its still referencing something from the old system in the color/visual mechanics somehow, when you take alot of hits.
I also didnt test if it was fixed but I DID notice I was taking ALOT of damage through block from multiple NPCs. Block didnt feel like i was really blocking - maybe part of that is the sound effects....
If block IS fixed, then: Block feels really weak and should be buffed! Block really needs to feel "weighty" in the sense that it makes a HUGE difference. Doing some HEs on live last night made me realize even more how pathetic this class is compared to others. Not only is our damage absolutely pitiful, but our defensive ability is as well, this didnt honestly change when I went to the PTR - I felt like I COULDNT take a beating - via block, and I COULDNT dish out good damage.
BTW - Reckless attacker seems to be working as intended now.....
SUGGESTIONS:
TACTICAL SUPERIORITY:"Combat Superiority deals 5% more damage and slotting Combat Superiority also grants 1/2/3/4/5% more chance to critically strike. At the 5th tier, no longer require you to get hit.
RECKLESS ATTACKER:3 STACKS @ 10% Damage and 2% Critical.
FLOURISHAnimation NEEDS to be sped up, this power can be very good for GFs but it takes SO long to cast - probably in the range of IBS for GWFs. Its really frustrating being mid-cast and getting interrupted/stunned/ccd in PVE... I feel like it cant even be used because of this.
With the latest preview update RA is now giving the correct damage boost and now the run speed while blocking has been corrected.
Yet, our Block still does not have a fix for block and even I get run over now while trying to block a bear rider charge....and the issue of guard break still being in the mechanics has not been addressed you cannot seriously expect to have the gf have a shield that is still the same as the old one and is now timed on top to boot. This is going in a bad direction at this point with under a month to go to mod 4 I am very concerned.
Short List
BLOCK: Guard break should be removed from block mechanics as it should not be there as it causes us to take full damage while blocking which makes this block even worse as we only can keep it up for a limited time now. Also the dr is still not doing the proper amounts as it still is only at 80% capped and once guard break happens we take more damage......
Seriously Can you address this fundamental issue or not cause I only see this becoming the most silly of classes with a shield with 2 weaknesses it still breaks(still the same as live block) and can only be held for a certain amount of time. This class will be an absolute joke if you do not rid the guard break mechanic nevermind the current dr bug.
the buff time on this skill is so short it needs to be upped by at least 2 seconds from when you hit the 30% mark on guard if you release shield at say 25% this buff just disappears right after due to regen back to 30% this just doesnt feel like it should do that and should at least linger for a good few seconds incase guard actually does break.
bug block: still no fix on the DR issues with block it is still not taking into account DR deflect and Ten or at least it doesnt appear to be still getting hit pretty hard just by npc's
Bug Armor of Bahamut this does not show on the character sheet at all when active
.
Yeah, I just want to see this DR fix before we say anything else because we can't really test anything until then. We can test our Wreckless, but the biggest whole is the DR, who knows, maybe that will fix the guard breaking so easily. but he said it'd be up next week
Bug Armor Specialization still does not work
Strength focus does nothing for our strength
Knights challenge is still extremely buggy and the delay makes the skill unusable. And also a lot of time the skill goes gray for minutes at a time and i have to re slot it in.
Bug: Guard Break
Most of the time once all your Stamina is drained the Guard doesn't break, the GF just stops guarding.
Instead, the system fires off Guard Breaks randomly when your Stamina is still filled. You start guarding, at 50% (or whatever) the guard meter turns red, but the char remains in guard motion and is actually still guarding according to the ACT:
The marked Guard Break appeared at ~40% of the Stamina and you can see that the following attacks are still correctly being guarded although the system continues to fire a series of additional Breaks.
BUG/WHY? Guarded Assault also does not proc weapon enchants like Plague Fire, Fire Bile, ect it should considering you are the one damaging the opponent i dont know if this a bug or not but i dont see why it shouldnt it's like this on live. however it does proc with briartwine and the like armor enchantments also it does proc Teneberous so why not weapon enchants?
Also I wanted to add this:
When we use Supremacy of Steel or Guarded Assault and a HR use Thorn Ward, should we reflect some of the damage we received from the Thorn Ward to the HR or not?, Because currently we don't.
I really hope they can fix this. The run speed while blocking literally makes us 2 or 3x more viable as holding a node against 1 or 2 attacks. The old block was just a deathwish as one runs behinds you, prone or stun, you are dead. The mobility! I love the mobility, makes us feel less clunky, and we need ALL of that we can get since Vangard is trash now and Swordmaster will be our best route
I had a hunter taking aimed shots at me over and over. Blocked they hit for 5500/5900. No block, 6800-7200.
That's with no buffs or debuff on me, same for the HR.
Block is really really broken, in many many many ways. Someone should do something similar with ACT running.
Enemy Team
0
bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited July 2014
They should have the encounter powers do something different while you have your shield up. They should also have the at-wills you have slotted affect how the attacks you can use while blocking behave.
While the block that is on live can be taken down via a big hit, you take absolutely no damage while it is up. Either the block should be time or health-limited and grant 100% damage mitigation, OR it should be usable anytime no matter what, and only provide some. To change it to be time based AND not block everything means that GFs are being "double taxed". Consider, for instance, how a CW is basically totally immune when they blink.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I like that idea. I wish Crushing Surge was upped to near double the cleave, maybe even double! Give us an attack that doesn't do as much damage, but lets us get some freaking regen/healing power while we are hitting. Life Steal Boon is freaking AWESOME. If we were attacking that much faster... It would be so awesome.
Cleave just honestly needs to be so much faster. I get that it is an arc, but for PVE, we deal HAMSTER AOE damage lol. It hits kinda hard, but it is so slow, just look at other at wills of other classes compared to AOE damage.. Our at-wills are weak and we have no good AOE's. Makes Black Ice (cooperation) difficult.
I can see that system being used for other modules and things as well, so if it is here to stay, I think some speed would be nice with the old at-wills. Not saying you have to revamp a feat, or the power, just make us a little faster please! I would LOVE to take my vorpal off and get some freaking DOTs going!
Powers are fine.
Crushing Surge Animation
Weapon Provides Substandard Damage
ARE NOT FINE
The fact that Reckless Attacker is a concern is a telling sign.
BUFF EVERY GF WEAPON BY
12.5%
There is no other solution.
This accounts for your Crit Caps as well!
They should have the encounter powers do something different while you have your shield up. They should also have the at-wills you have slotted affect how the attacks you can use while blocking behave.
This is probably the single best idea i've seen in 90 pages of feedback. PLEASE devs, consider it! Really!!
Comments
This is the mentality that is winning here, why would anyone want to block 100% of the time, I thought we were a fighter class, you should not deal damage while hiding behind a shield.
Have any of you tried playing without using your shield, I don't think so, yet everyone camps and insults those of us that do. I didn't need a shield neither did Embracemysword, Ctf4void, Colonelwing and perhaps a few others, we found we can sacrifice the shield to give massive DPS and survive, maybe you all could take a few lessons.
It has been stated those above 5395X2=10790 power will see a slight dps loss, yeah how bout almost 4k in power loss, plus the associated damage that 4k in power will generate. Please do not try and sell me on the idea that crit is going to make up the remaining difference, crit is a non constant variable, it cannot be calculated into a fixed damage formula. Sure sometimes you will hit with more damage, but how often its a variable not fixed. Sure if you could get a GF with close to 50% crit I might agree, but you can't on a GF, its hard enough on a rouge to get that high. SO crit is a low solution variable not ment to be used in any damage based formula.
After these last statements from crush, and especially since I saw him post on the GWF forums he was going to be on there with pewpew to PVP with the other gwf's yesterday, I know whats coming.
SO I will be joining colonelwing and embracemysword and perhaps a few others still on the borderline.
I know someone like ICE will come on here and make a quote like this again:
Q.Q good cya never
Well, in my load out I use Bull Rush, Lunging Strike, and Griffin's with Threatening Rush and Cleave right now.
First of all, I acknowledge the gist of everything you said to be absolutely true.
Second, there is a glitch that allows blocking 100% of the time with Mark using tab...
Now with that said. I think the overarcing point of this module is to round out every class as much as possible so we don't get a repeat of the HR debut.
While i appreciate what you are trying to do for us GFs, I am absolutely sure that this will change NOTHING for us. Why? Simple. We are already "controllers" and, with good gear, already able to tank the **** out of every dungeon. We are still not wanted in groups. And we will never be if you don't change your "it's not a DPS class" attitude. The majority of players doesn't give a **** about the purpose of a class. They give a **** about how fast they can faceroll through dungeons. And without every class being able to kick out a hell lot of more DPS than us, noone will want us after the patch.
(ah and by the way: GWFs are still tankier than GFs. Thank you.)
100% Block.
http://youtu.be/4eGo_zaf248
Almost feels like reading fiction. 14K Power ? Who even has that much ? And a GF having that much would mean absolutely crappy other stats. Such one-trick pony GF is not reliable at all. In a single pvp match, after you burst a few players they will take note of you and you will be focused till the end. A proper Conq GF has around 4000K base Power in order to have ~2000 Crit/ArmPen/Recovery and ~ 4000 Defence and 1500-2000 Deflect and ~ 1500 Regen.
The Reckless on Preview is quite good in solo PVE and solo PVP ( meaning one on one duels ) an I expect far greater things after the +%damage stacks start working properly. The Guard currently on Preview is quite good too, it allows us to move around well and actually have more uptime shielded ( I can get behind the enemy and hit ToI very fast ). Many GFs I think view the Shield as something they absolutely must use all the time and that is wrong. You are not supposed to always walk around hiding behind the board.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Dont know bout Crush, but I for one am opposed to this. If they merge them and keep both working as they are, it would result in an insanely powerful Daily, couple that with our very reliable AP generation and you have the new unkillable GF who is not only immune to damage for 5 secs but also heals to full HP + deals alot more damage + is CC immune = nerf. Id rather keep my dailies as they are and pick what to use & when to use. As for you dude, if you want to have unstoppable so much just roll a GWF alt.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Chris first of all thank you for looking at us ,we know how you guys are all pressed with mod 4 coming and we appreciate that you try to keep NW in the elite of the action MMOs.
However:
"Reckless Attacker while fully stacked (which in regular content/combat should be fairly straight forward as stacking does not at this time have an ICD) grants 25% base damage and 10% crit (which for someone with no severity increases equates to 7.5% increased damage over the lifetime of of the character)."
You cannot add crit and damage and make a final result.As others said,crit is an inconsistent stat.In pvp where the encounters are short and brutal even with 25% crit you might never achieve a critical hit.It is just random.That is why we ask for more damage.
" While I am not diametrically opposed to 3 stacks at 10% and 4% that is a far more substantive buff (39% damage buff rather than 32.5%"
Would a compromise of 3 stacks of 10% more damage plus 3 stacks of 3% added critical for a total 30% more damage and 9% critical ,seem fair to you?
I think the 90% of the Conqs that are against the new RA ,would agree to a 30% /9% new RA.
I know, and you just said as the most authentic voice that GF is a controller class.You want to keep in line with trinity theory.
But you know that the other classes do not fit into the trinity theory either.Uber tanky HRs,n1 DPS CWs,ubertanks GWF Sents etc....Is so bad for the balance of the game to give us a 30%/9% new RA?Please think about it.
You spoke about control.
What about control powers?Empowered Griffon's Wrath is so slow that is extremely difficult to land succesive hits.
Crushing Pin (after investing whole 5 points into it) gives a mere 10% more damage for THREE secs.Three secs is just a cleave swing.it is too low.
Into the fray gives minimum HP to party.Why not increase that aspect a little?
Crushing surge animation is so slow that really looks like broken.And it is in that state from day number one.Can its animation speed up a little?
As you saw we are not so few the Gfs as many thought.many that play GFs are more mature in age and more influential people.Bringing more people to NW which is good for all.Please do not bitter us ,give us some attention by improving our class!!
Thanx!
now there are a lot of repeats of the same ones through these 87 pages so i just took one that has multiple bug reports and put it in here if i am missing any go through the pages and please add them
we mean that for
example skills like thronward, enfeeblement ext ext ext are reducing our guard DR down to 0% and not our player DR and if it worked that way with old block it did not seem to now with us taking 20% damage through our block it makes it useless.
or at least come here and explain how it's suppose to work for us
i get that we can be mitigated but if players can null out our block to the point where 20%dmg isnt getting through it is now 100% dmg while guard is up.is this working as intended and if so this should not happen other than the fact all our other defences are not in the equation while guarding which you have stated is a bug then which DR is suppose to be mitigated while blocking . our block should not be the one being mitgated but our current player DR should this is wrong in so many ways and is not working.
feedback
put our block on a seperate DR that cant be mitigated
While this isnt a bad idea at all, I am much more in favor of added crit chance since that is a MAJOR thing lacking for GFs. With no good weapon enchants that we can work with because of low weapon damage and slow hits - which rules out a majority of weapon enchants, the ones left are "effect" enchants like GPF, Bronzewood, Feytouched, Terror, or Vorpal.
No matter the damage scaling enchants like GPF/Terror etc will have roughly the same effect, reducing the crit chance though makes something like Vorpal even LESS viable for our class. Id honestly like to see a crit build viable for GFs.
That said, maybe the solution is to remove some of the crit chance on the capstone, and give it somewhere else.
Tactical Superiority Is a Feat that for a Tier 4 offers VERY little in the way of damage... +5% more? Maybe a solution is to give THIS feat +5% more crit as a base ONTOP of the 5% damage boost.
THEN you can take Reckless Attacker, and reduce the crit there to much less. Say 3 stacks @ 10% damage and 2% Crit.
I think this would be much more fair, it spreads out the damage boosts, gives crit in other areas... I mean for a T4 feat thats pretty lacking, and arguable the new RA is too powerful of a capstone...
The fact that you spend that much time in your day is kind of pathetic. You should spend it testing the GF
Ok so, control powers. Is the mark not a control power? I have never gotten a for sure answer. For instance, you bull charge someone, MARK frontline MARK lunging strike. Or is the mark not considered a control power? I wish Crush could chime in on this.
This exactly...
Since RA has been swapped over, what does this TIER 4 feat really add in value? 5% damage boost? Thats not alot to be honest...
Giving this T4 added crit of say 5% so that it now gives a FLAT 5% crit bonus AND 5% damage bonus with the class feature slotted (along the same lines of weapon master for GWFs - gaining crit/deflect and AC).
THEN it allows you to remove some of the crit from RA and give it more of a "damage" boost.
THEN I could see 3 stacks @ 10% damage AND 2% Crit more viable since now crit is made up for with the other feat re-work.
I would REALLY like to see GFs have a CHANCE at decent crit - for those that love crit builds. I know it may seem selfish but I personally am a fan of crit builds more so than, pure damage builds. So giving people the CHOICE I think is the Key though....
TLDR: Put crit on tactical superiority, then make RA a 3 stack @ 10% damage/2% crit and make it so the GF applies the stacks!
Guarded Assault and Enduring Warrior - this class feature needs to be rework or get buff
For now let's just look at the bugs currently at the preview server that have come with these deep reaching changes. What can we expect regarding these bugs? To answer this question, let's just take a look into the past and how bugs were dealt with: We still experience respawning adds in Frozen Heart after the boss is dead since the open beta. For months now Terrifying Impact only deals a tiny fraction of the damage it should if the affected mobs get pulled into an arcane singularity at the same time. There are many more, we know them, and yet we see weeks without a single bug getting fixed.
I don't want to accuse anyone, I like the game and the GF class, that's why I play. I just want to point out that this is the current situation. I don't see this getting suddenly changed, especially not if a new module, a new class and possibly even a new race is at the doorstep! Will there be new bugs related to the new content? Yes, of course there will be new bugs, simply because a big chunk of new digital content will arrive at the server. Even something like an emergency server shutdown might happen. What do you think will then be the priority? To fix the fixes of our class which is one of the least popular? I don't think so.
Let's accept this situation and make the best out of it. Our class could get fixed by simply improving us instead of having this overhaul with the stamina-guard, its fallout effects and the bugs connected to them.
Even proponents of the stamin-guard and the changes connected to this guard mechanism are now worried and express dissatisfaction because of the bugs that have come with the changes at the preview server. Mr. Gentlemancrush, please pull the emergency break, drop the idea of the stamina guard and changes connected to it, and let's simply improve our class by making existing things better rather than replacing them with something else.
What tension and fierce discussions in this thread, what required additional changes to harmonize, and what new bugs have we seen that came along with making CON giving us now more hitpoints? Exactly - none. That's the way to go.
The core of the problem though is this:
gwfs die quickly in pve so unstoppable was unnerfed. It did not matter if there was a tank there or not aoes can hurt.
Fix:
Rework knights valor something like this
kv should not be an encounter power at all it should be made an class feature
To reduce 40% party incoming damage and let the GF take only say 20% of their damage however let the gfs dr rating reduce that.
If we had that then im sure many people would love takeing us gfs because we would be more useful than now.
Maybe add another encounter shield wall which is a 45 degree cone that appears behind you as an encounter that blocks 80% of all party damage just add a highish cd for that. It could save the party.
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
So, is it normal for those undead to hit 10k non crits on a GF ?
[Combat (Self)] Wight Commander deals 4662 (10044) Physical Damage to you with Melee Attack.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Regen gives 1564 (1515) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Wight Commander deals 984 (1004) Black Ice Damage to you with Black Ice Corruption.
[Combat (Self)] Your Tide of Iron deals 2388 (1511) Physical Damage to Wight Commander.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 16 (16) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Deathlock Wight deals 4767 (10273) Necrotic Damage to you with Gravebolt.
[Combat (Self)] Deathlock Wight deals 1007 (1027) Black Ice Damage to you with Black Ice Corruption.
[Combat (Self)] Deathlock Wight deals 4840 (10429) Necrotic Damage to you with Gravebolt.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Weapon Master's Strike deals 1462 Physical Damage to Wight Commander.
[Combat (Self)] Deathlock Wight deals 1022 (1043) Black Ice Damage to you with Black Ice Corruption.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 10 (10) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Your Weapon Master's Strike deals 1026 (802) Physical Damage to Wight Commander.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 7 (7) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Wight Commander deals 4806 (10355) Physical Damage to you with Melee Attack.
[Combat (Self)] You cannot use this power.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Bull Charge deals 10866 (8489) Physical Damage to Wight Commander.
[Combat (Self)] Your Soulforged Armor gives 744 (720) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Deathlock Wight deals 5585 (10460) Necrotic Damage to you with Gravebolt.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I also didnt test if it was fixed but I DID notice I was taking ALOT of damage through block from multiple NPCs. Block didnt feel like i was really blocking - maybe part of that is the sound effects....
If block IS fixed, then:
Block feels really weak and should be buffed! Block really needs to feel "weighty" in the sense that it makes a HUGE difference. Doing some HEs on live last night made me realize even more how pathetic this class is compared to others. Not only is our damage absolutely pitiful, but our defensive ability is as well, this didnt honestly change when I went to the PTR - I felt like I COULDNT take a beating - via block, and I COULDNT dish out good damage.
BTW - Reckless attacker seems to be working as intended now.....
SUGGESTIONS:
TACTICAL SUPERIORITY: "Combat Superiority deals 5% more damage and slotting Combat Superiority also grants 1/2/3/4/5% more chance to critically strike. At the 5th tier, no longer require you to get hit.
RECKLESS ATTACKER: 3 STACKS @ 10% Damage and 2% Critical.
FLOURISH Animation NEEDS to be sped up, this power can be very good for GFs but it takes SO long to cast - probably in the range of IBS for GWFs. Its really frustrating being mid-cast and getting interrupted/stunned/ccd in PVE... I feel like it cant even be used because of this.
Yet, our Block still does not have a fix for block and even I get run over now while trying to block a bear rider charge....and the issue of guard break still being in the mechanics has not been addressed you cannot seriously expect to have the gf have a shield that is still the same as the old one and is now timed on top to boot. This is going in a bad direction at this point with under a month to go to mod 4 I am very concerned.
Short List
BLOCK: Guard break should be removed from block mechanics as it should not be there as it causes us to take full damage while blocking which makes this block even worse as we only can keep it up for a limited time now. Also the dr is still not doing the proper amounts as it still is only at 80% capped and once guard break happens we take more damage......
Seriously Can you address this fundamental issue or not cause I only see this becoming the most silly of classes with a shield with 2 weaknesses it still breaks(still the same as live block) and can only be held for a certain amount of time. This class will be an absolute joke if you do not rid the guard break mechanic nevermind the current dr bug.
Armor of Bahamut
the buff time on this skill is so short it needs to be upped by at least 2 seconds from when you hit the 30% mark on guard if you release shield at say 25% this buff just disappears right after due to regen back to 30% this just doesnt feel like it should do that and should at least linger for a good few seconds incase guard actually does break.
bug block:
still no fix on the DR issues with block it is still not taking into account DR deflect and Ten or at least it doesnt appear to be still getting hit pretty hard just by npc's
Bug Armor of Bahamut
this does not show on the character sheet at all when active
.
Also I wanted to add this:
When we use Supremacy of Steel or Guarded Assault and a HR use Thorn Ward, should we reflect some of the damage we received from the Thorn Ward to the HR or not?, Because currently we don't.
That's with no buffs or debuff on me, same for the HR.
Block is really really broken, in many many many ways. Someone should do something similar with ACT running.
While the block that is on live can be taken down via a big hit, you take absolutely no damage while it is up. Either the block should be time or health-limited and grant 100% damage mitigation, OR it should be usable anytime no matter what, and only provide some. To change it to be time based AND not block everything means that GFs are being "double taxed". Consider, for instance, how a CW is basically totally immune when they blink.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_g5wP8mwzc the animation is extremely irritating to the eye. The animation is not fluid.
Cleave just honestly needs to be so much faster. I get that it is an arc, but for PVE, we deal HAMSTER AOE damage lol. It hits kinda hard, but it is so slow, just look at other at wills of other classes compared to AOE damage.. Our at-wills are weak and we have no good AOE's. Makes Black Ice (cooperation) difficult.
I can see that system being used for other modules and things as well, so if it is here to stay, I think some speed would be nice with the old at-wills. Not saying you have to revamp a feat, or the power, just make us a little faster please! I would LOVE to take my vorpal off and get some freaking DOTs going!
Crushing Surge Animation
Weapon Provides Substandard Damage
ARE NOT FINE
The fact that Reckless Attacker is a concern is a telling sign.
BUFF EVERY GF WEAPON BY
12.5%
There is no other solution.
This accounts for your Crit Caps as well!
This is probably the single best idea i've seen in 90 pages of feedback. PLEASE devs, consider it! Really!!