klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
edited July 2014
Block is a Shift Power, and all other classes use it tactically to avoid incoming big hits, the same should be for us, the Block should be our tactical power and nothing else.
From this point of view, the Live Block seem to suffice. What is the problem then? It's our baseline DR and armor class that is simply not up to scratch. 50% baseline DR and 25% deflect chance (give or take), just doesn't cut it in high-end content. When the shield is down you are massacred. GWFs took our place because they can keep DR at 80% consistently and have higher deflect chance as well.
I think they took a very flawed approach to GF's survival with this patch. It seems they think that Block should the alpha and omega of our survival, if block is depleted you either kite/prone or you're toast.
Seriously the devs think that if GFs want to be "tanky" they have to hold down SHIFT all the time? Then might as well make it a toggle, at least the key won't break. -.-
Remember that when you hold down shift, you can't use encounters and dailies.
I think they should have just kept the current Block on live and buffed a bit our baseline DR and A LOT our specced DR. so that we could bring it to around 55-65% (depending on the spec) passive.
We also needed a form of 360° degree CC immunity that's not a daily. For example, Iron Guard could give CC immunity to Iron Warrior, Reckless Attacker could give CC immunity to knight's challenge and Martial Mastery could give CC immunity to Into the Fray (GF only).
Block is a Shift Power, and all other classes use it tactically to avoid incoming big hits, the same should be for us, the Block should be our tactical power and nothing else.
From this point of view, the Live Block seem to suffice. What is the problem then? It's our baseline DR and armor class that is simply not up to scratch. 50% baseline DR and 25% deflect chance (give or take), just doesn't cut it in high-end content. When the shield is down you are massacred. GWFs took our place because they can keep DR at 80% consistently and have higher deflect chance as well.
I think they took a very flawed approach to GF's survival with this patch. It seems they think that Block should the alpha and omega of our survival, if block is depleted you either kite/prone or you're toast.
Seriously the devs think that if GFs want to be "tanky" they have to hold down SHIFT all the time? Then might as well make it a toggle, at least the key won't break. -.-
Remember that when you hold down shift, you can't use encounters and dailies.
I think they should have just kept the current Block on live and buffed a bit our baseline DR and A LOT our specced DR. so that we could bring it to around 55-65% (depending on the spec) passive.
We also needed a form of 360° degree CC immunity that's not a daily. For example, Iron Guard could give CC immunity to Iron Warrior. (an idea throwing out there, it's a 6 sec power with 16 sec cooldown)
I agree with you on some stuff, the new guard can be better, however as you stated when we are in guard we only can do 2 at wills? Why are we the only class thats locked and punished for using our shift ability?
Secondly as you stated why does the TANK class have to choose between healing and CC immunity whilst the GWF can click all of the above free every 27 seconds?
Fighters Recovery and Villains Menace need to be merged to give the GF synergy to the GWF unstoppable! if the Gf has to constantly use long animatied dailies to compete with a GWF just stop the changes and DELETE THE CLASS!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Block is a Shift Power, and all other classes use it tactically to avoid incoming big hits, the same should be for us, the Block should be our tactical power and nothing else.
From this point of view, the Live Block seem to suffice. What is the problem then? It's our baseline DR and armor class that is simply not up to scratch. 50% baseline DR and 25% deflect chance (give or take), just doesn't cut it in high-end content. When the shield is down you are massacred. GWFs took our place because they can keep DR at 80% consistently and have higher deflect chance as well.
I think they took a very flawed approach to GF's survival with this patch. It seems they think that Block should the alpha and omega of our survival, if block is depleted you either kite/prone or you're toast.
Seriously the devs think that if GFs want to be "tanky" they have to hold down SHIFT all the time? Then might as well make it a toggle, at least the key won't break. -.-
Remember that when you hold down shift, you can't use encounters and dailies.
I think they should have just kept the current Block on live and buffed a bit our baseline DR and A LOT our specced DR. so that we could bring it to around 55-65% (depending on the spec) passive.
We also needed a form of 360° degree CC immunity that's not a daily. For example, Iron Guard could give CC immunity to Iron Warrior. (an idea throwing out there, it's a 6 sec power with 16 sec cooldown)
The hp boost was a step in the right direction but yes GWF do have much more dr and deflect than us. An easy way to fix this would be to give gf shield a base of 10% deflect so our class has 10% deflect all the time, added with our own that's around 30-35% and gwf still get more but i would be happy with that. Also our tab should be changed to something defensive that also involves CC immunity, don't get me wrong i love the new tab but only because its a buffed version of the old one, i would still rather have something more useful.
Crixus - PVP GF
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
Options
epclipseingmoonMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
ok as many gwf players have pointed out is the fact tanking is not needed.
So forget fixing this class just coppy over all the specs and powers of the gwf includeing gear stats
and instead of just calling our ability unstoppable call it guarded unstoppable that does the exact
same thing for us as a gwf.
If we were fully the same as a gwf conq becomes destroyer. tactition becomes instigator and
protector sentinal.
Unless you rework all dungions to NEED tanking.
We may as well be the same as them just with a shield and longsword rather than a huge sword.
BTW where is the logic in a gwf being able to tank with that big sword and scale?
The main thing that people tend to be overlooking is. The new block is way easier to use, aka. "dumbed down" and the audience the devs are trying to reach are the masses and the masses, are dumb. = profit.
---
So yeah, we the real GF lost this battle against the iphone zombie hordes. Idk about you, but i'm out of here.
The hp boost was a step in the right direction but yes GWF do have much more dr and deflect than us. An easy way to fix this would be to give gf shield a base of 10% deflect so our class has 10% deflect all the time, added with our own that's around 30-35% and gwf 2crixusstill get more but i would be happy with that. Also our tab should be changed to something defensive that also involves CC immunity, don't get me wrong i love the new tab but only because its a buffed version of the old one, i would still rather have something more useful.
our(new) block already makes us immune to all cc's so that doesnt help our tab any. also our new mark saves us from haveing to stack arpen which is fantastic and if you roll conqueror spec you can now stack crit to utilize the new capstone. infact id go so far as to say our new mark is awesome from a pvp perspective and a pve perspective better switch out your darks for arzure's.
@crixus whats better than a free 20% dr reduction no other class had this on their tab
ok as many gwf players have pointed out is the fact tanking is not needed.
So forget fixing this class just coppy over all the specs and powers of the gwf includeing gear stats
and instead of just calling our ability unstoppable call it guarded unstoppable that does the exact
same thing for us as a gwf.
If we were fully the same as a gwf conq becomes destroyer. tactition becomes instigator and
protector sentinal.
Unless you rework all dungions to NEED tanking.
We may as well be the same as them just with a shield and longsword rather than a huge sword.
BTW where is the logic in a gwf being able to tank with that big sword and scale?
ummm stop posting in this thread. you sound ridiculous
our(new) block already makes us immune to all cc's so that doesnt help our tab any. also our new mark saves us from haveing to stack arpen which is fantastic and if you roll conqueror spec you can now stack crit to utilize the new capstone. infact id go so far as to say our new mark is awesome from a pvp perspective and a pve perspective better switch out your darks for arzure's.
ArP is always good, I don't know why you shouldn't stack it with the new mark.
ArP is always good, I don't know why you shouldn't stack it with the new mark.
because you can benefit more by stacking crit once you hit 24% arpen. and since GF's have a hard time reaching a decent crit percentage this leaves us open to stack more crit after reaching 24% arpen
our(new) block already makes us immune to all cc's so that doesnt help our tab any. also our new mark saves us from haveing to stack arpen which is fantastic and if you roll conqueror spec you can now stack crit to utilize the new capstone. infact id go so far as to say our new mark is awesome from a pvp perspective and a pve perspective better switch out your darks for arzure's.
@crixus whats better than a free 20% dr reduction no other class had this on their tab
Yeah I am very happy with the new changes and have tested them, they work great
I just wish our class had the same DR as the GWF since we are meant to be the tank class but they have way more and now there nerf was buffed up again lol so they will still have more defence and dmg than us. Its just a little annoying fighting a gwf and they think they are better than you when its just that there class overall is stronger.
"One of the good things about GF is that it's not GWF". That is not a good thing lol, if I could have 40% deflect chance, have CC immunity and deal 20k dmg easy I would be happy but guardian fighters cant.
I only meant that we aren't carbon copies of each other, lol, I must have lost my track some where with that one. Probably the worst way to phrase that there are many ways GF and/or GWF could receive all kinds of adjustments without ruining PvP or pissing our cousin class off.
Yeah I am very happy with the new changes and have tested them, they work great
I just wish our class had the same DR as the GWF since we are meant to be the tank class but they have way more and now there nerf was buffed up again lol so they will still have more defence and dmg than us. Its just a little annoying fighting a gwf and they think they are better than you when its just that there class overall is stronger.
actually the fight can go either way now since sent spec brings no dmg for them most will go IV destroyer. but at least we now kill them. i have fought many GWF's during these changes and i have to say the fights last longer and most of the time iunless they really outgear me it's pretty much an even fight. great thing with the new block is we can now just laugh and block through their unstoppable instead of having to just runn in circles until it depletes.
imho its a pretty even fight now which is great before there was no hope of beating a GWF 1v1 before mod 4(although they still should have kept it at 10-20%DR while unstoppable but all the QQ made them change it) but hey you could always contest a node like a boss. guess no one remembers how GWF were mod 1 but after that they just became ridiculous know why because IRON VANGUARD if GWF never got our paragon we wouldnt be in this situation right now, the devs shot them selfs in the foot with that one. i voiced how giving them IV path would make them 100x better than GF.
Well they could buff and tweak our exclusive At-Wills as payment
What I do laugh at, quite literally, is the THOUGHT of a GF Swordmaster. Think about it, if GF Exclusive at-wills (not Proprietary... like IV is thought of) were given an increase in base damage and some other applicable function, it would really make the class shine. There is absolutely no excuse for all our At-Wills doing +10% damage per skill point. Now that our Mark shows promise, Cleave, Tide of Iron, and Crushing Surge need similar utility. Heck, if third strike of cleave caused weak even... or synergized with Swordmaster and had higher Crit %... instead of bonus flat damage.
I'm pleading for these to receive a more intelligent design. Tide of Iron could Easily be more desirable. How is an At-Will at Level 2 UNIVERSALLY DISCARDED because of it's flawed anti-intuitive design. It could very well replace Enforced Threat if it treated right. A welcome change.
And Crushing Surge... notoriously, known as the Donkey -D*** skill.... informally IGNORED. Leaving us with 1 overused, weak as it is Cleave, which should synergize with Swordmaster, and it isn't even considered a viable Paragon for a GF! And I'll GUESS that Crushing Surge w/ +Healing instead of +Dmg like the way our Daily heal works, would probably heal more and heck, it should work as well as it possibly does with 3 points with its 1st point - and then +10% heal + 10% heal.
Thoughts? Would these changes honestly be unfair unwanted or unneeded?
I only meant that we aren't carbon copies of each other, lol, I must have lost my track some where with that one. Probably the worst way to phrase that there are many ways GF and/or GWF could receive all kinds of adjustments without ruining PvP or pissing our cousin class off.
Yeah i get that and hopefully one day both classes will be fully balanced and all happy lol
actually the fight can go either way now since sent spec brings no dmg for them most will go IV destroyer. but at least we now kill them. i have fought many GWF's during these changes and i have to say the fights last longer and most of the time iunless they really outgear me it's pretty much an even fight. great thing with the new block is we can now just laugh and block through their unstoppable instead of having to just runn in circles until it depletes.
imho its a pretty even fight now which is great before there was no hope of beating a GWF 1v1 before mod 4(although they still should have kept it at 10-20%DR while unstoppable but all the QQ made them change it) but hey you could always contest a node like a boss. guess no one remembers how GWF were mod 1 but after that they just became ridiculous know why because IRON VANGUARD if GWF never got our paragon we wouldnt be in this situation right now, the devs shot them selfs in the foot with that one. i voiced how giving them IV path would make them 100x better than GF.
Yeah I haven't lost on the test server yet, I have had some very close fights though so I can defiantly tell a huge difference but they still do have more defence than us by a mile and still more dmg I think gf just play smarter to win as it seems many gwf have become overconfident in there class since it's stronger than ours.
Crixus - PVP GF
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
Options
reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
I'd like to know, whats going to happen with our aggrevating strike and shield bash?
If we're actually limited on time for these temporary at wills. they're damage and effects needs to be buffed substantially. Like triple the damage and double thier effects. When we have our shield up we have no other way of attacking besides those. With that we can make someone pay just standing in front of our shield and waiting for it to go down.
With this new system. those two attacks become useless beyond anything ever seen.
I'd like to know, whats going to happen with our aggrevating strike and shield bash?
If we're actually limited on time for these temporary at wills. they're damage and effects needs to be buffed substantially. Like triple the damage and double thier effects. When we have our shield up we have no other way of attacking besides those. With that we can make someone pay just standing in front of our shield and waiting for it to go down.
With this new system. those two attacks become useless beyond anything ever seen.
They was already basically useless, only shield slam had some use to get guard back but in pvp they are horrible and when I see a gf standing there with there shield up using these I can tell they are a bad player right away.
In pve they are also bad because they aren't worth using and we are limited on our block time now because in about 3-6 hits our shield is gone anyway so no gf can stand there forever using these.
I'd like to know, whats going to happen with our aggrevating strike and shield bash?
Yeah, this is an issue, which by the way has been mentioned somewhere many pages back in this thread if I remember correctly, but it hasn't gotten the attention it should have.
I often use aggravating strike just to benefit from the taunting effect of it, and not because I want to attack while guarding. Prime example of this would be a CW piling up a group of mobs with arcane singularity, but there are others too. To keep the mobs focusing on me, I use aggravating strike to taunt them, even if they can't attack because they are currently stunned or in some other way unable to take action. I don't use shield slam that often, but I make heavy use of aggravating strike!
With this stamina-guard we now have to pay for this by losing guard meter. I don't think aggravating strike or shield bash were overpowered and thus had to get this nerf now. I think it is just one of the unintended and overlooked negative fallout effects of the stamina-guard. I was thinking about compiling a list of reasons that speak against the stamina-guard. What you brought up here, would be definitely on that list. Maybe I will do it later today.
(Colonelwing, please don't leave, I enjoy reading your posts at the forum!)
Yeah, this is an issue, which by the way has been mentioned somewhere many pages back in this thread if I remember correctly, but it hasn't gotten the attention it should have.
I often use aggravating strike just to benefit from the taunting effect of it, and not because I want to attack while guarding. Prime example of this would be a CW piling up a group of mobs with arcane singularity, but there are others too. To keep the mobs focusing on me, I use aggravating strike to taunt them, even if they can't attack because they are currently stunned or in some other way unable to take action. I don't use shield slam that often, but I make heavy use of aggravating strike!
With this stamina-guard we now have to pay for this by losing guard meter. I don't think aggravating strike or shield bash were overpowered and thus had to get this nerf now. I think it is just one of the unintended and overlooked negative fallout effects of the stamina-guard. I was thinking about compiling a list of reasons that speak against the stamina-guard. What you brought up here, would be definitely on that list. Maybe I will do it later today.
(Colonelwing, please don't leave, I enjoy reading your posts at the forum!)
Here is how it will work - Shield Up\ prick once get aggro\Shield Down\ToI to regen any lost guard
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
0
Options
reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
Same thing. Aggrevating strike was our strongest at will attack.
When the monsters were grouped at anytime. I'd use aggrevating strike. They were usually stunned or frozen. It does loads of damage in heaps to more monsters than your normal at wills and hits more targets while taunting at the same time. And if you ever got into a team where theres another GF, you both taking turns taunting and aggrevate striking the grouped up monsters that attacks them, making them go back and forth between you two were very effective and gave the other time to regen thier shield.
And in this example, is the multiple uses and viablities and builds of GF besides the standard way people play GF's. And I dont liek to see options and viabilities diminished as thats what brought me to this game in the first place.
In pvp, I couldnt use it as much cause it was just too slow and static. At least when i was by myself, When im with someone else, perferably another fighter or a CW, it works well. But pve, its great.
They was already basically useless, only shield slam had some use to get guard back but in pvp they are horrible and when I see a gf standing there with there shield up using these I can tell they are a bad player right away.
In pve they are also bad because they aren't worth using and we are limited on our block time now because in about 3-6 hits our shield is gone anyway so no gf can stand there forever using these.
On live in PvP, aggravating is almost always a better choice of action than cleave. If you're never using it, I can tell right away you're not a very good player.
It's not that certain on preview.
And on live right now, a decent conq GF can already compete with GWFs. At equivalent GS, it only requires a little more skill.
This said, I still think we need the boost.
Olaf, freelance guardian fighter.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
On live in PvP, aggravating is almost always a better choice of action than cleave. If you're never using it, I can tell right away you're not a very good player.
It's not that certain on preview.
And on live right now, a decent conq GF can already compete with GWFs. At equivalent GS, it only requires a little more skill.
This said, I still think we need the boost.
No its not it takes about 2 seconds to use and that 2 seconds could mean your shield being broken. No gf in pvp should stand there using that so don't tell me I'm not a good player because we can have a 1v1, you use that and we will see who wins.
When fighting a CW, HR or TR you don't get the chance to use it because they will dodge away, when fighting a gwf if you use it your gonna die quick or have your shield broken at least and when fighting another gf they will quickly run behind you and knock you prone. Them at wills are not good in pvp and any gf who is a good pvper will tell you that.
I write again to point out that the reworked RA capstone does not give more dps as many think.The only clear improvement is the adding critical chance.
The 25% more damage is on par with the power we will lose ,actually we will lose a little bit more.
5 stacks are too much.
We must all stand to 3 stacks of 10% more damage and 4% more critical.otherwise the reworked RA ,considering our established game style in pvp (1.Lunging 2 GW/BC 3. AoD/FS) is a nerf cause we will not have the stacks.
As for pve i just noticed my self both in IWD and in sharandar.With the exception of Beholder fight or HEs that i am severely outnumbered (3 people in purpled ones) my guard never drops below 80-90%.
I think i express the majority of the guardians that were persistent and stubborn and adapted to the obvious weaknesses of the class.For any GF that still plays the class the new RA will feel as a nerf.
For new GFs that will create new toons and for people that had dusted Gfs since stalwart nerf,the new RA might actually feel good.
Again:
IN ORDER TO GAIN DPS WE MUST STAND TO 3 STACKS OF 10% DAMAGE/4% CRITICAL
I write again to point out that the reworked RA capstone does not give more dps as many think.The only clear improvement is the adding critical chance.
The 25% more damage is on par with the power we will lose ,actually we will lose a little bit more.
5 stacks are too much.
We must all stand to 3 stacks of 10% more damage and 4% more critical.otherwise the reworked RA ,considering our established game style in pvp (1.Lunging 2 GW/BC 3. AoD/FS) is a nerf cause we will not have the stacks.
As for pve i just noticed my self both in IWD and in sharandar.With the exception of Beholder fight or HEs that i am severely outnumbered (3 people in purpled ones) my guard never drops below 80-90%.
I think i express the majority of the guardians that were persistent and stubborn and adapted to the obvious weaknesses of the class.For any GF that still plays the class the new RA will feel as a nerf.
For new GFs that will create new toons and for people that had dusted Gfs since stalwart nerf,the new RA might actually feel good.
Again:
IN ORDER TO GAIN DPS WE MUST STAND TO 3 STACKS OF 10% DAMAGE/4% CRITICAL
Can you confirm you actually got 25% more damage bonus? Because in post #666 I saw no visual difference in damage with 5 stacks and no physical change to my damage on mobs...
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Can you confirm you actually got 25% more damage bonus? Because in post #666 I saw no visual difference in damage with 5 stacks and no physical change to my damage on mobs...
It is bugged at the moment.Only the 5 % of damage works.
I write again to point out that the reworked RA capstone does not give more dps as many think.The only clear improvement is the adding critical chance.
The 25% more damage is on par with the power we will lose ,actually we will lose a little bit more.
5 stacks are too much.
We must all stand to 3 stacks of 10% more damage and 4% more critical.otherwise the reworked RA ,considering our established game style in pvp (1.Lunging 2 GW/BC 3. AoD/FS) is a nerf cause we will not have the stacks.
As for pve i just noticed my self both in IWD and in sharandar.With the exception of Beholder fight or HEs that i am severely outnumbered (3 people in purpled ones) my guard never drops below 80-90%.
I think i express the majority of the guardians that were persistent and stubborn and adapted to the obvious weaknesses of the class.For any GF that still plays the class the new RA will feel as a nerf.
For new GFs that will create new toons and for people that had dusted Gfs since stalwart nerf,the new RA might actually feel good.
Again:
IN ORDER TO GAIN DPS WE MUST STAND TO 3 STACKS OF 10% DAMAGE/4% CRITICAL
To the above posts he is referring to GFs who have 10k+ power who will see a SMALL damage loss but make up for it with crit. For over 90% of the GF population it will be a big buff when its fixes.
I too agree. It should be 3 stacks @ 10% damage and 4% Crit chance. For the DPS tree we need to get alot of damage to make up for our <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> weapon damage. Plus having it at 5 stavks will make it harder to get unless being focused. At three stacks even a deflect boon or occasional aoe hit can help us gain stacks.
If it is a dps loss for anyone, its a nerf. Obviously it was meant to be equivalent or a buff, it needs to be increased.
I dont think itll be a DPS loss for anyone, I dont see how unless you found a way to have north of 12-13k Power....
I am referring to the tooltip damage, for most will be significantly higher, for a few - itll be a small nerf but again the crit makes up for it.
Honestly at: 3 stacks @ 10% dmg and 4% crit each, I would be infavor of making it proc off the GFs attacks, rather than TAKING damage.
at 5 stacks its too much of a hindrance to do that though...
I think the protector tree should be converted from "everytime you hit an enemy, they deal less damage" to,
"Anytime an enemy hits you they deal less damage"
Basically:
Swap Reckless attacker to a stack upon the GF DEALING damage, 3 stacks @ 10% dmg and 4% crit.
Swap Protector Capstone to "debuffing" the attacker upon RECEIVING damage, NOT dealing damage.
I said that about the prot tree a few pages ago lol. It makes way more sense. Also, the tact tree capstone should give everyone some AP. Tact is a group synergy build, is it not?
Here's something to keep in mind: you don't just rework a bugged class. What you do, is fix its bugs so you know how it's supposed to properly work. If that doesn't work for the majority, THEN you begin to consider reworks or buffs.
Comments
From this point of view, the Live Block seem to suffice. What is the problem then? It's our baseline DR and armor class that is simply not up to scratch. 50% baseline DR and 25% deflect chance (give or take), just doesn't cut it in high-end content. When the shield is down you are massacred. GWFs took our place because they can keep DR at 80% consistently and have higher deflect chance as well.
I think they took a very flawed approach to GF's survival with this patch. It seems they think that Block should the alpha and omega of our survival, if block is depleted you either kite/prone or you're toast.
Seriously the devs think that if GFs want to be "tanky" they have to hold down SHIFT all the time? Then might as well make it a toggle, at least the key won't break. -.-
Remember that when you hold down shift, you can't use encounters and dailies.
I think they should have just kept the current Block on live and buffed a bit our baseline DR and A LOT our specced DR. so that we could bring it to around 55-65% (depending on the spec) passive.
We also needed a form of 360° degree CC immunity that's not a daily. For example, Iron Guard could give CC immunity to Iron Warrior, Reckless Attacker could give CC immunity to knight's challenge and Martial Mastery could give CC immunity to Into the Fray (GF only).
I agree with you on some stuff, the new guard can be better, however as you stated when we are in guard we only can do 2 at wills? Why are we the only class thats locked and punished for using our shift ability?
Secondly as you stated why does the TANK class have to choose between healing and CC immunity whilst the GWF can click all of the above free every 27 seconds?
Fighters Recovery and Villains Menace need to be merged to give the GF synergy to the GWF unstoppable! if the Gf has to constantly use long animatied dailies to compete with a GWF just stop the changes and DELETE THE CLASS!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
The hp boost was a step in the right direction but yes GWF do have much more dr and deflect than us. An easy way to fix this would be to give gf shield a base of 10% deflect so our class has 10% deflect all the time, added with our own that's around 30-35% and gwf still get more but i would be happy with that. Also our tab should be changed to something defensive that also involves CC immunity, don't get me wrong i love the new tab but only because its a buffed version of the old one, i would still rather have something more useful.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
So forget fixing this class just coppy over all the specs and powers of the gwf includeing gear stats
and instead of just calling our ability unstoppable call it guarded unstoppable that does the exact
same thing for us as a gwf.
If we were fully the same as a gwf conq becomes destroyer. tactition becomes instigator and
protector sentinal.
Unless you rework all dungions to NEED tanking.
We may as well be the same as them just with a shield and longsword rather than a huge sword.
BTW where is the logic in a gwf being able to tank with that big sword and scale?
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
@crixus whats better than a free 20% dr reduction no other class had this on their tab
ArP is always good, I don't know why you shouldn't stack it with the new mark.
Yeah I am very happy with the new changes and have tested them, they work great
I just wish our class had the same DR as the GWF since we are meant to be the tank class but they have way more and now there nerf was buffed up again lol so they will still have more defence and dmg than us. Its just a little annoying fighting a gwf and they think they are better than you when its just that there class overall is stronger.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I only meant that we aren't carbon copies of each other, lol, I must have lost my track some where with that one. Probably the worst way to phrase that there are many ways GF and/or GWF could receive all kinds of adjustments without ruining PvP or pissing our cousin class off.
actually the fight can go either way now since sent spec brings no dmg for them most will go IV destroyer. but at least we now kill them. i have fought many GWF's during these changes and i have to say the fights last longer and most of the time iunless they really outgear me it's pretty much an even fight. great thing with the new block is we can now just laugh and block through their unstoppable instead of having to just runn in circles until it depletes.
imho its a pretty even fight now which is great before there was no hope of beating a GWF 1v1 before mod 4(although they still should have kept it at 10-20%DR while unstoppable but all the QQ made them change it) but hey you could always contest a node like a boss. guess no one remembers how GWF were mod 1 but after that they just became ridiculous know why because IRON VANGUARD if GWF never got our paragon we wouldnt be in this situation right now, the devs shot them selfs in the foot with that one. i voiced how giving them IV path would make them 100x better than GF.
What I do laugh at, quite literally, is the THOUGHT of a GF Swordmaster. Think about it, if GF Exclusive at-wills (not Proprietary... like IV is thought of) were given an increase in base damage and some other applicable function, it would really make the class shine. There is absolutely no excuse for all our At-Wills doing +10% damage per skill point. Now that our Mark shows promise, Cleave, Tide of Iron, and Crushing Surge need similar utility. Heck, if third strike of cleave caused weak even... or synergized with Swordmaster and had higher Crit %... instead of bonus flat damage.
I'm pleading for these to receive a more intelligent design. Tide of Iron could Easily be more desirable. How is an At-Will at Level 2 UNIVERSALLY DISCARDED because of it's flawed anti-intuitive design. It could very well replace Enforced Threat if it treated right. A welcome change.
And Crushing Surge... notoriously, known as the Donkey -D*** skill.... informally IGNORED. Leaving us with 1 overused, weak as it is Cleave, which should synergize with Swordmaster, and it isn't even considered a viable Paragon for a GF! And I'll GUESS that Crushing Surge w/ +Healing instead of +Dmg like the way our Daily heal works, would probably heal more and heck, it should work as well as it possibly does with 3 points with its 1st point - and then +10% heal + 10% heal.
Thoughts? Would these changes honestly be unfair unwanted or unneeded?
Yeah i get that and hopefully one day both classes will be fully balanced and all happy lol
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yeah I haven't lost on the test server yet, I have had some very close fights though so I can defiantly tell a huge difference but they still do have more defence than us by a mile and still more dmg I think gf just play smarter to win as it seems many gwf have become overconfident in there class since it's stronger than ours.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If we're actually limited on time for these temporary at wills. they're damage and effects needs to be buffed substantially. Like triple the damage and double thier effects. When we have our shield up we have no other way of attacking besides those. With that we can make someone pay just standing in front of our shield and waiting for it to go down.
With this new system. those two attacks become useless beyond anything ever seen.
They was already basically useless, only shield slam had some use to get guard back but in pvp they are horrible and when I see a gf standing there with there shield up using these I can tell they are a bad player right away.
In pve they are also bad because they aren't worth using and we are limited on our block time now because in about 3-6 hits our shield is gone anyway so no gf can stand there forever using these.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I often use aggravating strike just to benefit from the taunting effect of it, and not because I want to attack while guarding. Prime example of this would be a CW piling up a group of mobs with arcane singularity, but there are others too. To keep the mobs focusing on me, I use aggravating strike to taunt them, even if they can't attack because they are currently stunned or in some other way unable to take action. I don't use shield slam that often, but I make heavy use of aggravating strike!
With this stamina-guard we now have to pay for this by losing guard meter. I don't think aggravating strike or shield bash were overpowered and thus had to get this nerf now. I think it is just one of the unintended and overlooked negative fallout effects of the stamina-guard. I was thinking about compiling a list of reasons that speak against the stamina-guard. What you brought up here, would be definitely on that list. Maybe I will do it later today.
(Colonelwing, please don't leave, I enjoy reading your posts at the forum!)
Here is how it will work - Shield Up\ prick once get aggro\Shield Down\ToI to regen any lost guard
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
When the monsters were grouped at anytime. I'd use aggrevating strike. They were usually stunned or frozen. It does loads of damage in heaps to more monsters than your normal at wills and hits more targets while taunting at the same time. And if you ever got into a team where theres another GF, you both taking turns taunting and aggrevate striking the grouped up monsters that attacks them, making them go back and forth between you two were very effective and gave the other time to regen thier shield.
And in this example, is the multiple uses and viablities and builds of GF besides the standard way people play GF's. And I dont liek to see options and viabilities diminished as thats what brought me to this game in the first place.
In pvp, I couldnt use it as much cause it was just too slow and static. At least when i was by myself, When im with someone else, perferably another fighter or a CW, it works well. But pve, its great.
It's not that certain on preview.
And on live right now, a decent conq GF can already compete with GWFs. At equivalent GS, it only requires a little more skill.
This said, I still think we need the boost.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
No its not it takes about 2 seconds to use and that 2 seconds could mean your shield being broken. No gf in pvp should stand there using that so don't tell me I'm not a good player because we can have a 1v1, you use that and we will see who wins.
When fighting a CW, HR or TR you don't get the chance to use it because they will dodge away, when fighting a gwf if you use it your gonna die quick or have your shield broken at least and when fighting another gf they will quickly run behind you and knock you prone. Them at wills are not good in pvp and any gf who is a good pvper will tell you that.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The 25% more damage is on par with the power we will lose ,actually we will lose a little bit more.
5 stacks are too much.
We must all stand to 3 stacks of 10% more damage and 4% more critical.otherwise the reworked RA ,considering our established game style in pvp (1.Lunging 2 GW/BC 3. AoD/FS) is a nerf cause we will not have the stacks.
As for pve i just noticed my self both in IWD and in sharandar.With the exception of Beholder fight or HEs that i am severely outnumbered (3 people in purpled ones) my guard never drops below 80-90%.
I think i express the majority of the guardians that were persistent and stubborn and adapted to the obvious weaknesses of the class.For any GF that still plays the class the new RA will feel as a nerf.
For new GFs that will create new toons and for people that had dusted Gfs since stalwart nerf,the new RA might actually feel good.
Again:
IN ORDER TO GAIN DPS WE MUST STAND TO 3 STACKS OF 10% DAMAGE/4% CRITICAL
Can you confirm you actually got 25% more damage bonus? Because in post #666 I saw no visual difference in damage with 5 stacks and no physical change to my damage on mobs...
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
It is bugged at the moment.Only the 5 % of damage works.
To the above posts he is referring to GFs who have 10k+ power who will see a SMALL damage loss but make up for it with crit. For over 90% of the GF population it will be a big buff when its fixes.
I too agree. It should be 3 stacks @ 10% damage and 4% Crit chance. For the DPS tree we need to get alot of damage to make up for our <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> weapon damage. Plus having it at 5 stavks will make it harder to get unless being focused. At three stacks even a deflect boon or occasional aoe hit can help us gain stacks.
I dont think itll be a DPS loss for anyone, I dont see how unless you found a way to have north of 12-13k Power....
I am referring to the tooltip damage, for most will be significantly higher, for a few - itll be a small nerf but again the crit makes up for it.
Honestly at: 3 stacks @ 10% dmg and 4% crit each, I would be infavor of making it proc off the GFs attacks, rather than TAKING damage.
at 5 stacks its too much of a hindrance to do that though...
I think the protector tree should be converted from "everytime you hit an enemy, they deal less damage" to,
"Anytime an enemy hits you they deal less damage"
Basically:
Swap Reckless attacker to a stack upon the GF DEALING damage, 3 stacks @ 10% dmg and 4% crit.
Swap Protector Capstone to "debuffing" the attacker upon RECEIVING damage, NOT dealing damage.