For solo pvp it might be fun to really be immortal, but you cant really do damage so its limited.
For premade pvp though (which is what matters for me) your build is a bad idea.
Im already so tanky on my dc that groups tend to switch targets a lot and focus someone else, so that you have to heal them and keep them alife, which your build just cant - not enough healing no crits.
Also you are using pve feats mostly, just saying.
I run this on inhouses and premades all the time, where people regularly have BIS and Tene's, this is where the build shines big time. Because Clerics in general cant keep certain classes alive when they are really being focused, therefore if my teammates happen to die I can act as somewhat of a Sentinel GWF and continue to hold the point until my teammates come back. I've posted several videos demonstrating this (occasionally holding points against an entire team). Clerics without a good amount of Deflect will not be able to do this, because defense can be broken through and regen will not save you from burst. You need to have all three if you want to survive the toughest of situations.
Also, with the upcoming patch nerfing sunburst, this kind of build will become even more useful because you will not be able to spam Hallowed Ground/Divine Armor as often.
I think Clerics in general get too hung up on trying to be able to do damage on top of team support. Which is fine, but killing and damage potential are not as important in Domination as holding/contesting points. <- What wins games.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
gctrl - Great to see the concept can be applied to other classes. Soon no one will be able to 1v1 a class in PvP.
Hah, not sure about that but I know that the upcoming changes (nerfs :P) to all the classes in general are going to level the playing field more for Clerics and CW's.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Hah, not sure about that but I know that the upcoming changes (nerfs :P) to all the classes in general are going to level the playing field more for Clerics and CW's.
The nerf to STAL is unfortunate but it doesn't change the Deflect/Regen build for GF. Just means using a different set of gear which now pushes my deflect to about 30% with 11.2% Regeneration. Almost 2.1k Health Ticks /lol and damage is about the same due to not always having STAL stacks.
Still it's very interesting seeing the build on a Cleric but weakness is still good CC chain and unlucky RNG on deflects. :P
The nerf to STAL is unfortunate but it doesn't change the Deflect/Regen build for GF. Just means using a different set of gear which now pushes my deflect to about 30% with 11.2% Regeneration. Almost 2.1k Health Ticks /lol and damage is about the same due to not always having STAL stacks.
Yeah the tankiness is still there for sure, but damage potential has gone down quite a bit now for GF's from the Stal change. Which is overall a good thing, because currently you're getting the best of both worlds with Stal, lots of tankiness and amazing reactive burst damage.
but weakness is still good CC chain and unlucky RNG on deflects. :P
Agreed, but I still survive some of the worst cc chains, the real hurt comes from being proned and getting hit by multiple people with Gtenes, not even the tankiest Sent GWF can survive that either
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Yeah prone sucks But still amazing when TR thinks they are going to 1 shot you and poof 1/2 the dmg is gone and you turn and smile while regen the HP back.
I still kind of doubt you can survive against CW+GF
I can and I do survive against multiple people all the time. It's all about constantly trying to set yourself up so that you either arn't cc'd easily, or you have protection ready in case you do.
For example there are times when I do not even play middle and instead act as a back capper (much like a sentinel gwf), because noone can kill me 1v1. I'm even tanky enough most of the time to not even have to use a daily, so when a 2nd person comes to kill me I have Hallowed Ground/Divine Protection ready, making it impossible to kill me 2v1. That in turn buys one of my teammates time to come over and back me up. <- This scenario constantly happens and the majority of the time I always end up living, while the 2nd attacker usually dies or runs back because he cant damage me efficiently with someone else there attacking him. On the off chance I do die, my teammate is there to contest the point in my place until i get back.
Clerics who do not have deflect are susceptible to burst, I am as well, just much less often. Translation: I have the best chance out of any cleric to stay alive between my daily and during my daily. Not only that, but it reduces my reliance on even having to use my daily, because I can already reduce huge burst damage to nothing at a considerable rate (25% or 1/4 attacks is HUGE).
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asrathiel01Member, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 21Arc User
edited August 2013
Hey mate, gotta say as I main a cleric I love the build man, great write up and I can attest the build works perfectly and gives a new and exciting experience for anybody maining a pve cleric like myself. I just had a quick question for you though, do you think using the prophet champions 4 piece with a it's 25% bonus to divinity gain and 5% healing as well as the life steal on it would be viable with this build?, I've got a full set sitting on my main cleric so I was curious.
Cheers
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terenceqwyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
er.... fyi on live server u cant put points into NON-main/secondary stats
as far as i know... test server u can though
You won't have any idea of how effective it is until you actually try it, and get at least somewhere close to my percentage.
There is something special about Deflect, even in small amounts(you just don't see its magic as often).
While there is no doubt that in large amounts any stat can show significant results the calculations behind balancing stat point allocation still evade me.
Currently I have
38.2% Damage Resistance
5% Deflection Chance
by drinking +200 Potions of Defense and Deflection these increase to
Clearly in my example I should be swapping out a Defense Enchantment for a Deflection Enchantment.
Where I get a little lost with it all though is with the Deflection Severity. Should Deflection Severity be factored in by halving the value of Deflection or is it already factored in(ie: due to the prevalence of defense bypassing attacks) thus resulting in a true 1:1 relationship between Defense and Deflect.
What I have noticed farming cn is that my defense is stellar, I can handle melee damage from anything including Azharzel and as such I do feel I can reduce it without suffering since it is only the special attacks I fear. It does appear that Deflection is the go-to stat for surviving specials provided I keep enough Defense to shrug off reasonable amounts of the straight up physical melee/ranged damage.
It was not my intention to invest in Deflection at all but I really like my defenses high and the Priest rings come with Deflection, what I have noticed though even with such a small amount is occassionally I will magically survive things that should have insta-killed me.
because I can already reduce huge burst damage to nothing at a considerable rate (25% or 1/4 attacks is HUGE).
The science behind Regen Tanks. Best put by one of my guildmate's (One of the top TR's on our server) "I only have a 1 in 3 chance to kill Scroto." Because my deflect is about 30% and Lurker Lashing in it's current form gives the best chance of a TR to kill a Regen Tank 1v1. Otherwise no other class can kill me 1v1.
GCTRL - We have to 1v1 on PTR I want to see this build in action.
The science behind Regen Tanks. Best put by one of my guildmate's (One of the top TR's on our server) "I only have a 1 in 3 chance to kill Scroto." Because my deflect is about 30% and Lurker Lashing in it's current form gives the best chance of a TR to kill a Regen Tank 1v1. Otherwise no other class can kill me 1v1.
GCTRL - We have to 1v1 on PTR I want to see this build in action.
Hehe, most definitely, perhaps Friday or this weekend we can set something up.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
There is something special about Deflect, even in small amounts(you just don't see its magic as often).
It was not my intention to invest in Deflection at all but I really like my defenses high and the Priest rings come with Deflection, what I have noticed though even with such a small amount is occassionally I will magically survive things that should have insta-killed me
Yeah, the benefits of even slight increases in Deflect can be very rewarding, lots of Clerics are reporting to me that even getting their deflect in the 10-15% range has dramatically improved their survivability in PvP.
While there is no doubt that in large amounts any stat can show significant results the calculations behind balancing stat point allocation still evade me.
Currently I have
38.2% Damage Resistance
5% Deflection Chance
by drinking +200 Potions of Defense and Deflection these increase to
You're not taking into account Diminishing Returns, the reason why 200 Defense is only granting you .7% Damage Resistance is because you are already in the 2000-2400 defense range. There is a certain point when it becomes less and less beneficial to increase a stat. The only stat that does not have diminishing returns is Power.
Another thing to note is that this is a PvP based build, I can't speak to its usefulness in PvE. I will say though that having this much Deflect in PvE isn't necessary and perhaps even a hindrance in certain situations because other stats, like say Recovery or Power, would be lacking.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
I will say though that having this much Deflect in PvE isn't necessary and perhaps even a hindrance in certain situations because other stats, like say Recovery or Power, would be lacking.
True I would never take my Deflect as high as yours for PvE. For PvE it virtually all boils down to 3 item slots though. Two rings and an Augment companions Defense slot.
Rings can be either Slavemaster's, Hrimnir set or Priest's with the Hrimnir set being kind of halfway between the full offensiveness of Slavemaster's or full defensiveness of Priest's.
The Augment companions defensive slot can be converted to an offense slot as most people do but I prefer to just keep the points in defense because when you consider the difference that two rings and one runestone slot make it is not really all that much extra defensiveness to have and I do so very much hate dying.
All maths aside...do you feel in-game that you get an equivalent amount of benefit from Deflect as you do from Defense? or do you perhaps notice the Deflection Severity clearly cutting Deflections usefullness in half when compared to Defense?
All maths aside...do you feel in-game that you get an equivalent amount of benefit from Deflect as you do from Defense? or do you perhaps notice the Deflection Severity clearly cutting Deflections usefullness in half when compared to Defense?
Defense is necessary, but it can be broken through with debuffs, armor pen, etc... Deflection can't, that is why it is paramount to have some if you're best trying to avoid burst from big hits. Another great thing is that when you are hit by an attack, the first thing that the game takes into account is your Defense (Damage Resistance), it then reduces the damage accordingly and THEN deflection is rolled. So basically you're deflecting attacks that are already being reduced. I've been hit by Ice Knifes, Shocking Executions, Lashing Blades, etc.. for 1-2k Damage.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Hey gcrtl, what are your thoughts on using the t2 pvp set champion prophet with this build?
Sincerely Asra
It's ok, I don't personally like it because of the Life Steal, which is an inconsistent attribute in PvP, especially for a Cleric. The idea behind this build is not only to take big hits and recover, its to take big hits when you're getting disabled and recover. Life Steal is not going to help you when you're proned on the ground by multiple targets. The set should really have something like Regen/Deflect in place of the Life Steal, just my thoughts on it.
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asrathiel01Member, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 21Arc User
edited August 2013
Cool cool, thats what i figured your opinion would be on it, and from my own testing with the t1 pvp set lifesteal as you say is rubbish compared to when i tryed out your build with its delicious deflection lol, its amazing the difference it makes in pvp. Thanks for taking the time to respond man its appreciated.
Interesting, but I still believe, that best defense is a good offense. With this build he definitely "annoys the enemy to death", but against a good dagger doesn't stand a chance, especially not one, that constantly dazes, hits with Path of the Blade from Stealth and does LB. But daze and LB alone are enough.
Then again in those vids he fought tanks in 1v1, others mostly watched, if two at a time would rush him = dead. If he fought a really skilled tank that doesn't give him not one second to breathe = dead. Good tanks usually constantly rush/KD, so he wouldn't be able to use a single ability while constantly prone and regen alone isn't enough, so heavily depends on whom he's up against. Against skilled players this build is good for nothing, at least from my own, personal experience.
Then again in those vids he fought tanks in 1v1, others mostly watched
Those were purposely done to show that there is no GWF or GF that can kill me 1v1, they all have the best gear for their class and Greater Tenebrouses as well. There is noone that can kill me 1v1 with this build, save for 1 person I know.
Again, there is noone that can kill me 1v1, there has been one TR in my guild that has managed to do it, and even then it takes him a long time to take me down and he needs to be fully slotted with Gtenes.
Against skilled players this build is good for nothing, at least from my own, personal experience.
And what players do you play against? I know all the good players on Dragon and play with/against them on a regular basis in premades and inhouse matches. So far there is nothing stronger in PvP for a Cleric than this build.
The strength of this build comes from the fact that I can hold a point by myself, contest a point forever, and mitigate/light heal my teammates. That is what wins in Domination, 70% is holding points and contesting, 30% is killing the other team. If you play at a high level you should understand this very well.
I'm basically a sentinel GWF, but I can heal people and mitigate damage. Again, there is nothing stronger for a Cleric in PvP right now. After the patch now and with all the nerfs to the other classes, this build will be even stronger.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
You are talking as if the OP has no pvp skill as a DC. The value of *any* build is only as good as the player.
If you as a DC are unable to avoid knockdown chains, then it does not matter what build you have.
Are you expecting the OP to literally just sit there and do nothing and his HP never to move from 100%? What in Selune more would he have to convince you of the survival value of this build compared to any other ever on DC?
It's as if you do not even play a Cleric...
Also, good luck finding better geared or skilled players than the ones he plays against. You may get exactly one or two from Mindflayer pvper's (who seem particularly keen to stress their pvp credentials), especially their TRs or GFs, but they would all fare just as badly against a skilled player using this build, which is what the OP is.
That said, I'd love to see Blacksheep@sheepblack the TR of Silent Blade vs HCTRL! That TR is a demon 1v1, though not as good a team player.
Hi gctrl, what is your gear now? And the level of your enchantment, please?
Thanks for the help.
I have Perfect Negation, Perfect Holy Avenger, rank 8/9 Silvery Enchants and my gear is the same (I have Miracle Healer set on but I'll switch back soon once its fixed)
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darkshogunMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 9Arc User
edited August 2013
Hi Gctrl this build is amazing but I have teh question .
Where to drop nightmare icon because there is none atm in ah , also whats the stats on nightmare icon thx
Hi Gctrl this build is amazing but I have teh question .
Where to drop nightmare icon because there is none atm in ah , also whats the stats on nightmare icon thx
Nightmare Icon is from Tarmalune Trade Bar Merchant. The main advantage of it is that it has a defense slot plus 90 Regeneration.
Comments
I run this on inhouses and premades all the time, where people regularly have BIS and Tene's, this is where the build shines big time. Because Clerics in general cant keep certain classes alive when they are really being focused, therefore if my teammates happen to die I can act as somewhat of a Sentinel GWF and continue to hold the point until my teammates come back. I've posted several videos demonstrating this (occasionally holding points against an entire team). Clerics without a good amount of Deflect will not be able to do this, because defense can be broken through and regen will not save you from burst. You need to have all three if you want to survive the toughest of situations.
Also, with the upcoming patch nerfing sunburst, this kind of build will become even more useful because you will not be able to spam Hallowed Ground/Divine Armor as often.
I think Clerics in general get too hung up on trying to be able to do damage on top of team support. Which is fine, but killing and damage potential are not as important in Domination as holding/contesting points. <- What wins games.
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You mean everyone will consider CWs pvp food instead of DCs?
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The nerf to STAL is unfortunate but it doesn't change the Deflect/Regen build for GF. Just means using a different set of gear which now pushes my deflect to about 30% with 11.2% Regeneration. Almost 2.1k Health Ticks /lol and damage is about the same due to not always having STAL stacks.
Still it's very interesting seeing the build on a Cleric but weakness is still good CC chain and unlucky RNG on deflects. :P
Yeah the tankiness is still there for sure, but damage potential has gone down quite a bit now for GF's from the Stal change. Which is overall a good thing, because currently you're getting the best of both worlds with Stal, lots of tankiness and amazing reactive burst damage.
Agreed, but I still survive some of the worst cc chains, the real hurt comes from being proned and getting hit by multiple people with Gtenes, not even the tankiest Sent GWF can survive that either
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I still kind of doubt you can survive against CW+GF, i usually have not more than 5-6 in a tough match, dieing to 3 isnt exactly a shame ^^
But yeah too bad i cant try it out and compare since they havent implemented total stat reset yet
One or two, sometimes zero.
I can and I do survive against multiple people all the time. It's all about constantly trying to set yourself up so that you either arn't cc'd easily, or you have protection ready in case you do.
For example there are times when I do not even play middle and instead act as a back capper (much like a sentinel gwf), because noone can kill me 1v1. I'm even tanky enough most of the time to not even have to use a daily, so when a 2nd person comes to kill me I have Hallowed Ground/Divine Protection ready, making it impossible to kill me 2v1. That in turn buys one of my teammates time to come over and back me up. <- This scenario constantly happens and the majority of the time I always end up living, while the 2nd attacker usually dies or runs back because he cant damage me efficiently with someone else there attacking him. On the off chance I do die, my teammate is there to contest the point in my place until i get back.
Clerics who do not have deflect are susceptible to burst, I am as well, just much less often. Translation: I have the best chance out of any cleric to stay alive between my daily and during my daily. Not only that, but it reduces my reliance on even having to use my daily, because I can already reduce huge burst damage to nothing at a considerable rate (25% or 1/4 attacks is HUGE).
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Cheers
as far as i know... test server u can though
There is something special about Deflect, even in small amounts(you just don't see its magic as often).
While there is no doubt that in large amounts any stat can show significant results the calculations behind balancing stat point allocation still evade me.
Currently I have
38.2% Damage Resistance
5% Deflection Chance
by drinking +200 Potions of Defense and Deflection these increase to
38.9% Damage Resistance
6.9% Deflection Chance
so...
200 Defense grants +.7% Damage Resistance
200 Deflect grants +1.9% Deflection Chance which at 50% Deflection Severity seemingly equals +.95% Effective Deflection
Clearly in my example I should be swapping out a Defense Enchantment for a Deflection Enchantment.
Where I get a little lost with it all though is with the Deflection Severity. Should Deflection Severity be factored in by halving the value of Deflection or is it already factored in(ie: due to the prevalence of defense bypassing attacks) thus resulting in a true 1:1 relationship between Defense and Deflect.
What I have noticed farming cn is that my defense is stellar, I can handle melee damage from anything including Azharzel and as such I do feel I can reduce it without suffering since it is only the special attacks I fear. It does appear that Deflection is the go-to stat for surviving specials provided I keep enough Defense to shrug off reasonable amounts of the straight up physical melee/ranged damage.
It was not my intention to invest in Deflection at all but I really like my defenses high and the Priest rings come with Deflection, what I have noticed though even with such a small amount is occassionally I will magically survive things that should have insta-killed me.
You can find the post here http://mmominds.com/2013/08/20/gctrls-sentinel-cleric-tank-for-pvp-25-deflect1k-regen2kdef/
The science behind Regen Tanks.
GCTRL - We have to 1v1 on PTR I want to see this build in action.
Hehe, most definitely, perhaps Friday or this weekend we can set something up.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Yeah, the benefits of even slight increases in Deflect can be very rewarding, lots of Clerics are reporting to me that even getting their deflect in the 10-15% range has dramatically improved their survivability in PvP.
You're not taking into account Diminishing Returns, the reason why 200 Defense is only granting you .7% Damage Resistance is because you are already in the 2000-2400 defense range. There is a certain point when it becomes less and less beneficial to increase a stat. The only stat that does not have diminishing returns is Power.
See this video for a better explanation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR4KdpzlbqU
Another thing to note is that this is a PvP based build, I can't speak to its usefulness in PvE. I will say though that having this much Deflect in PvE isn't necessary and perhaps even a hindrance in certain situations because other stats, like say Recovery or Power, would be lacking.
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Looks good, thanks
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Sincerely Asra
True I would never take my Deflect as high as yours for PvE. For PvE it virtually all boils down to 3 item slots though. Two rings and an Augment companions Defense slot.
Rings can be either Slavemaster's, Hrimnir set or Priest's with the Hrimnir set being kind of halfway between the full offensiveness of Slavemaster's or full defensiveness of Priest's.
The Augment companions defensive slot can be converted to an offense slot as most people do but I prefer to just keep the points in defense because when you consider the difference that two rings and one runestone slot make it is not really all that much extra defensiveness to have and I do so very much hate dying.
All maths aside...do you feel in-game that you get an equivalent amount of benefit from Deflect as you do from Defense? or do you perhaps notice the Deflection Severity clearly cutting Deflections usefullness in half when compared to Defense?
Defense is necessary, but it can be broken through with debuffs, armor pen, etc... Deflection can't, that is why it is paramount to have some if you're best trying to avoid burst from big hits. Another great thing is that when you are hit by an attack, the first thing that the game takes into account is your Defense (Damage Resistance), it then reduces the damage accordingly and THEN deflection is rolled. So basically you're deflecting attacks that are already being reduced. I've been hit by Ice Knifes, Shocking Executions, Lashing Blades, etc.. for 1-2k Damage.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
It's ok, I don't personally like it because of the Life Steal, which is an inconsistent attribute in PvP, especially for a Cleric. The idea behind this build is not only to take big hits and recover, its to take big hits when you're getting disabled and recover. Life Steal is not going to help you when you're proned on the ground by multiple targets. The set should really have something like Regen/Deflect in place of the Life Steal, just my thoughts on it.
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Keep Pwning
Asra
Then again in those vids he fought tanks in 1v1, others mostly watched, if two at a time would rush him = dead. If he fought a really skilled tank that doesn't give him not one second to breathe = dead. Good tanks usually constantly rush/KD, so he wouldn't be able to use a single ability while constantly prone and regen alone isn't enough, so heavily depends on whom he's up against. Against skilled players this build is good for nothing, at least from my own, personal experience.
Those were purposely done to show that there is no GWF or GF that can kill me 1v1, they all have the best gear for their class and Greater Tenebrouses as well. There is noone that can kill me 1v1 with this build, save for 1 person I know.
You don't know what you're talking about, not to mention the fact that you seemed to have missed the 4v1, 3v1, and 2v1 videos I posted, have a look:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Nx6p4GC1uU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mHK9H9q_Yw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCSSlPQXcmg
Again, there is noone that can kill me 1v1, there has been one TR in my guild that has managed to do it, and even then it takes him a long time to take me down and he needs to be fully slotted with Gtenes.
That is why I also have 25% deflect chance, jesus, its like you didn't even read anything in the guide.
And what players do you play against? I know all the good players on Dragon and play with/against them on a regular basis in premades and inhouse matches. So far there is nothing stronger in PvP for a Cleric than this build.
The strength of this build comes from the fact that I can hold a point by myself, contest a point forever, and mitigate/light heal my teammates. That is what wins in Domination, 70% is holding points and contesting, 30% is killing the other team. If you play at a high level you should understand this very well.
I'm basically a sentinel GWF, but I can heal people and mitigate damage. Again, there is nothing stronger for a Cleric in PvP right now. After the patch now and with all the nerfs to the other classes, this build will be even stronger.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
You are talking as if the OP has no pvp skill as a DC. The value of *any* build is only as good as the player.
If you as a DC are unable to avoid knockdown chains, then it does not matter what build you have.
Are you expecting the OP to literally just sit there and do nothing and his HP never to move from 100%? What in Selune more would he have to convince you of the survival value of this build compared to any other ever on DC?
It's as if you do not even play a Cleric...
Also, good luck finding better geared or skilled players than the ones he plays against. You may get exactly one or two from Mindflayer pvper's (who seem particularly keen to stress their pvp credentials), especially their TRs or GFs, but they would all fare just as badly against a skilled player using this build, which is what the OP is.
That said, I'd love to see Blacksheep@sheepblack the TR of Silent Blade vs HCTRL! That TR is a demon 1v1, though not as good a team player.
He's on Dragon? The Miracle Healer set has made me impossible to kill 1v1 now. Until the bug on it is fixed its not really fair to 1v1 anybody
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lol, I didn't even think of that with this build. Evil!
Hi gctrl, what is your gear now? And the level of your enchantment, please?
Thanks for the help.
I have Perfect Negation, Perfect Holy Avenger, rank 8/9 Silvery Enchants and my gear is the same (I have Miracle Healer set on but I'll switch back soon once its fixed)
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Where to drop nightmare icon because there is none atm in ah , also whats the stats on nightmare icon thx
Nightmare Icon is from Tarmalune Trade Bar Merchant. The main advantage of it is that it has a defense slot plus 90 Regeneration.