Mostly orcus tank GWF, OP and GF< These 3 classes.
So GWF is not in 6th spot, its in top 3,. and thats big difference.
Show me ( after AA patch) where the GWF tanks orcus. Not his comp, i mean the GWF himself. Plz show me that. Thanks. Ofc only if the GWF is the only "tank" in group. Im very interested in this.
Show me ( after AA patch) where the GWF tanks orcus. Not his comp, i mean the GWF himself. Plz show me that. Thanks. Ofc only if the GWF is the only "tank" in group. Im very interested in this.
Do u think without DC's AA gwf can't tank orcus?? The answer is NOP<. Even without DC with AA path, GWF can tank Orucs.. I have done CN without gf, or OP countless times. Not 1, no 5, but over 20 ++ times. Actually I also where in party where with heal DC, me as templock, 2 Hr's and 1 CW party cleared CN fast. The problem is that,, most players pick destro GWF, and put him behind DC"s AA buff. So GWF protected and can deal gazilion dmg. But glasscanon builds are not ment to tank. So if u put him face 1vs1 agains orcus, whole fight last ~10s. And usually GWF laying on the ground, and that player writting here in forum that his glasscanon gwf need gazzilion buffs.
The gwf which tanked orcus and whole CN where Sentinel build. The path which ment to be able offtank to some degree. Now add: templocks : aura of despair 5% dmg reduction, hellish condenmantion 10% dmg reduction.. Wraith shadow didn't use because where not if it work, but it would reduce orcus dmg even more.. Now add Oracle DC's divine glow, astral shield.. And it's more than enough for gwf to keep up with orcus.. Not mentioned that DC keep applying Divine glow, and if HP fall even little bit, dropped bastion of health,, and since DC where heal build, it restored all HP to max.
AS for companions> well I don't know any companion which would be able tank orcus.. And only there where glitched/bugged yeti companion which where able do it. But this problem is fixed and patched.
Also if u think common strategy use companions to make orcus busy and melee strikers would deal dmg. It's impossible, I know, because I already do try this way. If 1 companion = 100% fail. Because time frame for companion get restored is to short. If using 3 tank type companions also are no assurance that orcus will not gwf..
And now best part,, U want to know which gwf did that,, well sadly I didn't knew I will need their ID"s/ Also it's not like 1 gwf did that. I run lot of times via premades in pub queue. So sadly I can't provide names for these GWF's...
Add
While in CN we did with GWF sentinel build. The one which some claims are useless. Now read that post again, I wrote> GF, OP and gwf tank< not beat orucs solo.
With that GWF sent we had heal oracle DC, me as templock and other where either TR, HR or CW.
So my Templocks aura of despair> 5% dmg reduction, hellish condemnation 10% dmg reduction. DC's astral shield. And if his HP move even little bit, DC drop bastion of healt. Oh one more thing, add divine glow< Do u think such supporting is not enough?? If u think so, then my advice don't pick >GLASSCANONS for TANKING<. And pick more offtanking build gwf.
Furnny, , even before DC rework, it where kinda usual for me to be supporter, gwf(sent) offtank, HR + cw., and one heal <DC. And we beat CN without big problems.. GWf can't tank orcus, if it's destro, nop. If sentinel even which is rare build, it can do it. Plus add templocks buff/debuff interactions.
Also if u read my post, I didn't say that gwf did solo <.. I said that these 3 >gf, op and gwf< tanked orcus.
Next, if u talk about companions, then I can assure, non of current companion can tank orcus. There where only due glitch yeti companion capable to do that.
If companion would be able do that,, I would be solo with 2.9k Templock without problems...
Yes, yes, totally agree with you. In fact, a really better solution than yours should be to make all Sure Strike hits have a range of 500' and deal 200M damage and 100% HP recovery per hit because "buffs" and "heals" are for poor people and undergeared pugs. No, no, no, no, no, better yet: after Qing, the rewards should be put onto the bags directly, that way, we can bypass that stupid Ewan walls melting thing. We're on fire!
Sorry for battling sarcasm with smarter sarcasm. Good Luck next time.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
So many wot just to say the GWF played senti. Was it that hard? M8... i dont get it why one of the best dps classes should play a tank, but ofc you can tank orcus with senti path. Thats not a big deal. But again: Why should you? Only if no tank is available or you dont have any in your guild/FL. Besides that a senti GWF in PVE? mmmhhh....i will make me a senti with new loadoutsystem, but just for fun not for real tanking . If i wanna tank i switch to GF. I cant see any good support/buff skill at senti GWF. You do?
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
So many wot just to say the GWF played senti. Was it that hard? M8... i dont get it why one of the best dps classes should play a tank, but ofc you can tank orcus with senti path. Thats not a big deal. But again: Why should you? Only if no tank is available or you dont have any in your guild/FL. Besides that a senti GWF in PVE? mmmhhh....i will make me a senti with new loadoutsystem, but just for fun not for real tanking . If i wanna tank i switch to GF. I cant see any good support/buff skill at senti GWF. You do?
Think sent should be more about burst and agro them actual tanking. Tank keeps boss busy, GWF keeps mobs busy. Everyone else can go idle and stuff their lazy faces full of Cheetos.
So many wot just to say the GWF played senti. Was it that hard? M8... i dont get it why one of the best dps classes should play a tank, but ofc you can tank orcus with senti path. Thats not a big deal. But again: Why should you? Only if no tank is available or you dont have any in your guild/FL. Besides that a senti GWF in PVE? mmmhhh....i will make me a senti with new loadoutsystem, but just for fun not for real tanking . If i wanna tank i switch to GF. I cant see any good support/buff skill at senti GWF. You do?
Are u sure players would not tell what build they use? Usually and most times, when I asked any class player which build they use, they always wrote me back with builds paragon path and which build tree focused. But I can assure if u are annoying in party, u will have lower chances to have decent conversation with group...
Anyways,, Do it where hard? nop, do it where easy? Also nop. It where just like usual CN run with actual tanks. Also remember, I wrote that he tanked not like beat orcus solo, also he where covered by buffs and orcus affected by debuffs.. But it's usual way within party.
Now why dps class decide go play as tank.. Well, lets see.. Perhaps it's same as I now play temptation(support) over furry(dps) build.. Thats mean try something new, also be able help group. As example, I don't even try be best dmg dealer with templock. I try find balance, be able deal decent dmg, yet be helpfull toward group.
One good example tiamat fight> I obtain/pick green tiamat gem. Get in middle range between green tiamat head and safe zone.. Cast Warlock bargain + DT. And due my AoE healing I can counter Tiamats poison debuff/DoT. So group can go with less problems.. When defending clerics< I stand in range so my aura of despair would affect minions/adds so they would deal less dmg.. Also I can offtank them So others can stay behind me and do best stuff they can>> deal lot of dmg<.
Same goes with GWF, u give up your max possible dmg in favor to help group by other ways.. And in this case, make orcus busy,
As for making sent GWF. I can't say u should, neither say like u shouldn't do it.. But just remind u. These GWF's didn't tank because had proper help from party. It's not case like u enter dungeon, giving middle finger and u can faceoff tank anyone.
Seems like players still think that "nerf all classes" means "buff GWF class"...
...
Thats one of neverwinter unique trait. Player pick class, create build, seems fine, dealing lot of dmg, can almost kill training dummy. But when get in actual finght found that his builds is not good in tanking.. So instead fixing build, players come to forum and complain that game don't meet players build.< And game balance and over all must be balanced in favor to his HAMSTER build.
As most common example, picking all boons to increase offensive stats,, making glasscanon and expect that this build can tank anyone in face2face fight..
I even met TR, with 4k def, 2k deflect and expected that he can tank orcus.. One slap and he dead.. And next 5 min chat where full of complains that healer/buffer are s**ers, that his TR class need buffs, and overall Orcus to powerfull..
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
Same goes with GWF, u give up your max possible dmg in favor to help group by other ways.. And in this case, make orcus busy,
A senti GWF is not helpfull for a group. If you wanna make orcus busy and you dont want a tank to do that take a tank companion. There is no helfpfull buffs/debuff at all for the group in sentis path.
Or maybe Yeti or any other tank pet. For orcus you dont even need a tank, so dunno why a DPS class should give up his DPS to "help" the group. I cant see any help here. But i think we are getting to OT. Im gonna make me a senti for fun with new loadoutsystem but i know a senti GWF will never be a tank like a GF or a OP. So i make me a senti just for fun and cuzz im bored ingame
A senti GWF is not helpfull for a group. If you wanna make orcus busy and you dont want a tank to do that take a tank companion. There is no helfpfull buffs/debuff at all for the group in sentis path.
Or maybe Yeti or any other tank pet. For orcus you dont even need a tank, so dunno why a DPS class should give up his DPS to "help" the group. I cant see any help here. But i think we are getting to OT. Im gonna make me a senti for fun with new loadoutsystem but i know a senti GWF will never be a tank like a GF or a OP. So i make me a senti just for fun and cuzz im bored ingame
Have u even tryed that way? Try use companions to tank orcus, while TR, HR and lets say other gwf would deal dmg.. I tryed that way. Mostly it ended fail. If you have 2 decent range Dps Classes, CW, SW lets say even Archer focused HR. Then u can use companions to tank while party from range deal dmg.. And in this case actually you don't need tank type companions. Enough any offensive companion which can hit orcus. Mid/close range, tank, striker, CC whatever. Companions just provide buffer zone which protect party.. Orcus hit nearest target. And companions recover from death fast.
I know these tricks for long time.. And I can assure, tanking allone with Lion/yeti will not give u proper tanking, and non of melee classes will be able deal decent dmg toward orcus..
Only with one thing I can agree, GWF will never be tank as GF, because GWF primary role is striker, and due feats u can make him is offtank, While GF primary role tank, and via feats/paragon paths u boost up dmg. And if GF focus on full tanking build, it will beat GWF in term of tanking without questions.
Me too. The last time that I tried Sentinel was Mod 6 when I was a lowbie and there was the damage bug. But, since we lost our Temp HP and lost Daring Shout as aggro, I doubt it will be good even at BIS.
That your post put u in interesting position. U claim that GWF have poor survivability, low tanking capabilities. Yet u haven't play as sentinel for over 4 mods.
And funny is that, Destro is not offtank, Senti is offtank. So, have u ever though that your build need optimization?? OR u just complain because game is not adjusted to your build..
Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
OMG, you are unbelievable. All paths of the GWF are off-tank. Sentinel was just the path that had more threat and DR. Wow. You want to nerf GWF, that is your whole motivation. Why you so jelly? SW can tank way better than GWF. Let's remove DPS from Trapper. It is a control tree. Let's remove all control from TR except in the Scoundrel tree. Remove all control from Thaum and Renegade cuz Oppressor is the control tree. Remove shield and FR from Conqueror cuz it is a DPS tree. I can go on all day.
Then by your theory my temptation SW is not supporter but striker, and now I should complain for to low his dps performance.. Same goes for damnation tree, which gameplay is around soul puppet. They also now should complain that they do not deal same amount dmg as fury.
One of biggest nonsense. And if that happens, means u doing lot of things wrongly, and your GWF build is set up wrongly.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
Have u even tryed that way? Try use companions to tank orcus, while TR, HR and lets say other gwf would deal dmg.. I tryed that way. Mostly it ended fail. If you have 2 decent range Dps Classes, CW, SW lets say even Archer focused HR. Then u can use companions to tank while party from range deal dmg..
You know that a lot GWFs ( me too btw) made orcus solo just for fun? You know its doable with a GWF + a Tank companion? You know it is not easy and you need a real good knowledge about your GWF if you do that? Have i tryed it? Nop. I did it. Trying is for pussies. Dont try, do it. If you use a Tank comp there are some things you have to know ( you know...nearest hit etc...). Maybe you made some mistakes when you tryed, cuzz you dont know theese things? You are really unbelievable. You write like "I know everything...theese are FACTS...you know nothing...l2p" but in fact i dont think you ever played any class to max and tried everything its possible. So can we get BTT? This is my last post to you cuzz i wanna talk about balance (TOPIC)! And just let you know: Nerf is NOT balance. Think about it.
Have you played GWF? Have you played it before Mod 6? Have you ever tried to tank on any class? Have you tried Sentinel? You are trying to get GWF nerfed when you do not even know anything about the class. TTFN.
That is actually a fair point - you can't go making a load of suggestions about a class you don't play because all you see is anecdotal evidence.
The big question for @bloodyspamer is have YOU played a Sentinel GWF at 3k+ within the last couple of mods? If the answer is (as I suspect) no then you are in no position to berate someone else on the point.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Have you played GWF? Have you played it before Mod 6? Have you ever tried to tank on any class? Have you tried Sentinel? You are trying to get GWF nerfed when you do not even know anything about the class. TTFN.
I hate to do this but i 1000% agree to this point.
Destro GWF and Conq Gf both seem to be WAI . While Senti GWF and Protector GF needs work. The top reason few take a Protector GF is the last Cap is broken so like the Senti GWf .Few see any reason to play that way because they are broken. I play several differnt toons and find it rather sad at how little it seems that either AC or Defense matter all that much in this game . AC does nothing until you get it past rank 10 and as far as defense goes you are better off with hit points than defense. Just my idea looking for others to speak to it but would think one way to improve both the more defense paths would be to make AC to start adding from level one up on the Senti and Protector paths . Need to give them something the Offensive paths dont already have as well. Most welcome to add to this as far as making a Senti / Protec tank role more rewarding.
Have you played GWF? Have you played it before Mod 6? Have you ever tried to tank on any class? Have you tried Sentinel? You are trying to get GWF nerfed when you do not even know anything about the class. TTFN.
Do I played GWF, Yes, When ? 3 month ago, Destro, and also had chance to play with sentinel build.
Obviously you will ask for pictures, videos and so one. Well I don;t have them within my laptop. And personally I don't think I had to prove u anything.. Because even if Would provide screenshots, videos even fight logs. U would still try imply that I don't know how bad GWF is.
So more less, I can say, I played with GWF, both destro and senti builds. And I don't give a cra* if u think. And now cool part. I asked players from friendlist, within alliance and even casual players if they have 4k GS. Do GWF sucks in top end dungeons and what need to be done to make it viable. And over 20 players(GWF) laugh. yet u here, person who claims that GWF is so bad that even SW can tank better.
The fact SW can tank. but thats mean u give up dmg dealing. Giving up offensive boons, also gear must be focused for this purpose.
@clonkyo1, your GWF sentinel had 10k def, Which is punny. I have met DC's who run around river disctrict with over 20k def. Does that make that DC overtank?
IF you guys expect that based on class provided feat/features u can tank then u are wrong. They just augment/extend some game part/mechanics. If u want tank, you had to compile gear/boon/feats/mounts/companions/insignias for that purpose. And thats what I mean when I wrote that offtank give up dmg in exchange for tanking.
Some GWF's which I knew, had over 20k def, 5k deflect, 5k life steal. Now add sentinel feats/features. And u have offtank,
If u think that u get 15k def, about 3k life steal, and by adding sentinels feats make your GWF tanky, then obviously u guys are wrong.
I have templock HB. I have over 12k def, about 6k life steal. Now add Pillar of Power provided DR buff, aura of despair 5% dmg recution, darkness 10% dmg reduction when enemies got affected by Bova which give u 20% deflect chance. , Hellish condemnation 5%+ dmg reduction toward enemies.. Also PoP have debuff effect too.
Add my Hp restoring due DoT triggering life steal.
And with that, I still don't consider my templock offtank.
I do not expect that glasscanon way geared character would be able tank.
AS for GF and gwf..
Well GF is tanker yes. So even if player set up for max dps, this GF still contain mechanics ment to tank. IT's like DC, even if u build up for dps, or buffing. Your DC still have healing power, still do have >divine empowerment< which extend dmg but also let u apply healing spells more rapid.
So same is with GF, players even with full dps build, still have tanking abilities within class. So due that they have less think about defensive stats.
As for GWF, this class, well once u created, getting high dmg capabilities. Now u can accumulate lot of dmg, yet u need survivability. So u need leverage for it. But remember, one thing, you are not ment be offtank. GWF is melee class, so it have defensive stats not tank bosses, not act as tank within dungeon runs. But to have decent for own survivability in close range fights while runing game contents. THats mean top end dungeons, GWF stay behind tank. <
As sentinel, < sentinel extend survivability and give ability to tank to some degree. And in non of my known MMORPG games, offtank replaced actual tank in top end dungeons/fights.. . Because full tank = dedicated tank which focus on tanking, and dps is least thing he do.
Now this is action mmorpg, so if u get safe time frame, u can hit enemies.. And thats what GF players do. THey block hits with their tanking abilities which they gain with class creation. And when get chance hit enemies hard.
As example I can suggest u guys visit Vindictus mmprpg game. There u hit when u have chance. Boss try hit you, you avoid hit and hit him back >hard.
And now best part< this is Action mmorpg, and if your gameplay is based on eating incoming hits. Then obviously u will faill. From what I so, players during mSvardborg, they got used to DC"s AA so don;t bother to dodge at all. Players got addicted to gameplay where they are behind wall of buffs and bosses/enemies are debuffed. So dodging hits is kinda least important thing..
Now some GWF are famous not due gear, due gameplay. Some did stuffs which other didn't. Why? Not because they had better gear, but because they did things in right time. In action mmorpg games, gameplay is big matter.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
Now you are making things up. Not one person here said GWF is not viable in dungeons. In fact, we are saying it is the best DPS in dungeons as SM Destroyer and that GF is second. The difference is that GF has a shield, and is a tank class instead of a Striker. Quote me where someone said GWF SM Destroyer is not viable. We said Instigator and Sentinel are not viable end-game. Why? No utility or purpose. Sure, you can play them and do low damage, give no benefit to the party, and die a miserable death. That is not the purpose of this game, you are there to contribute to the party. Ya, I am going to play Sentinel to tank, give no buffs to the party and lose aggro to the DPS. Ya, nice tank......
Alright.. Now what are feats within each class? What are they ment for? They extend some of your powers/capabilities.. SW furry = extend dps. SW damnation = extend gameplay around soul puppet. SW temptation = extend survivability + add ability support parties.
GWF striker. Sentinel extend your survivability. Destroyer extend your dmg.
Now. from very start you create GF you get mechanics/powers ment to tank. So GF players when building full offensive character still have tanking mechanics. It's like DC, even if u make full dps/buff build, you still have healing powers.
So GF players did what its kinda common within mmorpg games.. They build dmg focused set up, and survivability leave for their tanking mechanics/powers. As example within lineage 2 are 4 tank classes. each have own unique powers. Some have similar.. One among them is Shilen knight. He use magic, to deal dmg. But since he is not mage/spellcaster it's seems make him non viable within fight.. Wrong<<< I picked mage gear, put on tank, and in fight I was beast. I focused on full dmg, yet had tank class powers to extend my defensive stats or negate dmg. In other game I also had offensive tank set up. So it;s not like this would be something new..
Also need to remind this is action mmorpg game. If u dodge incoming hit, and u have opening to land hit, you do it. So GF players doing it. They blocking danger hits, and when have opening lad most powerfull hits.
Now with GWF is kinda tricky..
From moment you create character, non feated u already have more dmg than other melee type classes. Now GWF desing in general is same which use lot of mmorpg games.. You will always will find class similar to NWO GWF.
And their attributes are same: Caring heavy weapon, either axe, sword or hammer. Have higher than average Defensive stats Have higher than average HP pool.
And most commonly they called offtank due HP pool and higher defensive stats
Now these classes are not tanks. Even lot of guys within many mmorpg games tend to claim that. GWF/destroyers/warriors and other named classes, with these attributes are just melee dmg dealers. And their defensive stats and HP pool are higher just to make sure that player with this class could go face2face fight during game content runs.
Now on non of my known, played/tested games these even called offtanks fully replaced actual tanks in top end dungeons/boss fights.. They have higher stats than others, but in top end content, they let actual tank hold agro, <
In neverwitner, we all have 3 possible tress within each class. to extend certain stats/capabilities. Now Sentinel boost up GWF"s survivability and also add agrro/threat generating capabilities. Which make GWF offtank, Now whats matter in this situation. If u want truly offtank, you need give up offensive stats.. thats mean you need compile four gwf's gear/mounts/companions/insignias/boons toward tanking. Thats mean u giving up offensive to extend defensive stats, which make classes tanky.
IF u have with GWF ~10k def, 2k Life steal, Then it's no chance that he would be able tank CN. Even sentinel have enchanted survivability, it's no chance..
Also sentinel itself is just help party run game content, not replace actual tank.
So as u can see, u want tanking, u give up offensive stats, yet u still keeping offensive powers, dmg dealing ment mchanics.
IF happens(it will) u still don't get. Then visit some other mmorpg games.. And u will notice that there are GWF like class and u will notice their role within group and how they do stuffs.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
Wait, are you saying that 10k on Defense by using only pure gear stat is "punny"? (the reason i have 22k power on my tank is for a reason...). Im not including there any insignias, pets with enchants and gear and bonusses, azures, and so on... just by pure gear. GF with that amount can tank far better than sent GWF...
When u get in fight, do monster ask u, how much defence u have only from gear or he hit u and see can u survive it? I was talking in general, 10k even 14k defence for tanking is nonsense. And as I wrote before, that is what means give up offensive stats in favor to defensive ones.. Players when go offtank, they give up offensive stats, Artifacts, gear, rings, amulet and belt are ment to get you defence, deflect, Armor class and life steal. Also regeneration. Mounts + insignias also set up for this purpose. Companions also ment to boost up your tanking. Also boons either campaign or Stronghold are picked to increase defensive values.
So far players pick GWF sent, and increase his defensive stats just little bit, and hope that outcome will be big. When GWF fail to replace GF or OP in tanking, these players write> Sentinel is not viable<. It's like u put 20% efforts in tanking, and want 80% results. Thats mean, get some minimal defensive stats, and hope that feats allone will make GWF tank.
And yes, GF is better at tanking even than sentinel GWF. Because as I wrote, sentinel is not ment to replace actual tank. This tree enchant GWF survivability.
Edit: i were wrong. I have 14k on defense on that Sent char. My mistake here, sorry. BTW, 4.3k on LS stat if you're interested on it. But, again, i got some fresh ideas recently... if you send me the RP, the reagents and the Wards to try it, i will more than happy to try it out the build i have in mind. Also, would be better if you send me some AD to buy companions, rise them up to legend, buy them gear and so on.
You suggestion sounds as I would had to create new GWF and gear up him... Well I wouldn't do that. my HB templock is my last character within neverwinter.. I have 0 intention to create new character, and play same game content. For me where enough to have shared account with close friend. I helped to lv up, both we geared up DC, HR, GWF<, GF. My friend moved to OP and I decided focus on my warlock.. So there is not so much new things to do within neverwinter.
I have been playing GWF for years. I know what the class is. it is a Striker off-tank. Your insults and linguistic gymnastics will not change that. If you have a problem with it, take that up with the devs who designed the class, instead of me.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
Comments
Ofc only if the GWF is the only "tank" in group. Im very interested in this.
The answer is NOP<. Even without DC with AA path, GWF can tank Orucs.. I have done CN without gf, or OP countless times. Not 1, no 5, but over 20 ++ times. Actually I also where in party where with heal DC, me as templock, 2 Hr's and 1 CW party cleared CN fast.
The problem is that,, most players pick destro GWF, and put him behind DC"s AA buff. So GWF protected and can deal gazilion dmg. But glasscanon builds are not ment to tank. So if u put him face 1vs1 agains orcus, whole fight last ~10s. And usually GWF laying on the ground, and that player writting here in forum that his glasscanon gwf need gazzilion buffs.
The gwf which tanked orcus and whole CN where Sentinel build. The path which ment to be able offtank to some degree.
Now add: templocks : aura of despair 5% dmg reduction, hellish condenmantion 10% dmg reduction.. Wraith shadow didn't use because where not if it work, but it would reduce orcus dmg even more..
Now add Oracle DC's divine glow, astral shield.. And it's more than enough for gwf to keep up with orcus..
Not mentioned that DC keep applying Divine glow, and if HP fall even little bit, dropped bastion of health,, and since DC where heal build, it restored all HP to max.
AS for companions> well I don't know any companion which would be able tank orcus.. And only there where glitched/bugged yeti companion which where able do it. But this problem is fixed and patched.
Also if u think common strategy use companions to make orcus busy and melee strikers would deal dmg. It's impossible, I know, because I already do try this way. If 1 companion = 100% fail. Because time frame for companion get restored is to short.
If using 3 tank type companions also are no assurance that orcus will not gwf..
And now best part,, U want to know which gwf did that,, well sadly I didn't knew I will need their ID"s/ Also it's not like 1 gwf did that. I run lot of times via premades in pub queue. So sadly I can't provide names for these GWF's...
Add
While in CN we did with GWF sentinel build. The one which some claims are useless.
Now read that post again, I wrote> GF, OP and gwf tank< not beat orucs solo.
With that GWF sent we had heal oracle DC, me as templock and other where either TR, HR or CW.
So my Templocks aura of despair> 5% dmg reduction, hellish condemnation 10% dmg reduction. DC's astral shield. And if his HP move even little bit, DC drop bastion of healt. Oh one more thing, add divine glow<
Do u think such supporting is not enough?? If u think so, then my advice don't pick >GLASSCANONS for TANKING<. And pick more offtanking build gwf.
Furnny, , even before DC rework, it where kinda usual for me to be supporter, gwf(sent) offtank, HR + cw., and one heal <DC. And we beat CN without big problems.. GWf can't tank orcus, if it's destro, nop.
If sentinel even which is rare build, it can do it. Plus add templocks buff/debuff interactions.
Also if u read my post, I didn't say that gwf did solo <.. I said that these 3 >gf, op and gwf< tanked orcus.
Next, if u talk about companions, then I can assure, non of current companion can tank orcus. There where only due glitch yeti companion capable to do that.
If companion would be able do that,, I would be solo with 2.9k Templock without problems...
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
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I cant see any good support/buff skill at senti GWF. You do?
Anyways,, Do it where hard? nop,
do it where easy? Also nop.
It where just like usual CN run with actual tanks.
Also remember, I wrote that he tanked not like beat orcus solo, also he where covered by buffs and orcus affected by debuffs..
But it's usual way within party.
Now why dps class decide go play as tank.. Well, lets see.. Perhaps it's same as I now play temptation(support) over furry(dps) build..
Thats mean try something new, also be able help group. As example, I don't even try be best dmg dealer with templock. I try find balance, be able deal decent dmg, yet be helpfull toward group.
One good example tiamat fight> I obtain/pick green tiamat gem. Get in middle range between green tiamat head and safe zone.. Cast Warlock bargain + DT. And due my AoE healing I can counter Tiamats poison debuff/DoT. So group can go with less problems..
When defending clerics< I stand in range so my aura of despair would affect minions/adds so they would deal less dmg.. Also I can offtank them
Same goes with GWF, u give up your max possible dmg in favor to help group by other ways.. And in this case, make orcus busy,
As for making sent GWF. I can't say u should, neither say like u shouldn't do it.. But just remind u. These GWF's didn't tank because had proper help from party. It's not case like u enter dungeon, giving middle finger and u can faceoff tank anyone.
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Seems like players still think that "nerf all classes" means "buff GWF class"...
...
Thats one of neverwinter unique trait.
Player pick class, create build, seems fine, dealing lot of dmg, can almost kill training dummy. But when get in actual finght found that his builds is not good in tanking..
So instead fixing build, players come to forum and complain that game don't meet players build.<
And game balance and over all must be balanced in favor to his HAMSTER build.
As most common example, picking all boons to increase offensive stats,, making glasscanon and expect that this build can tank anyone in face2face fight..
I even met TR, with 4k def, 2k deflect and expected that he can tank orcus.. One slap and he dead.. And next 5 min chat where full of complains that healer/buffer are s**ers, that his TR class need buffs, and overall Orcus to powerfull..
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
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Im gonna make me a senti for fun with new loadoutsystem but i know a senti GWF will never be a tank like a GF or a OP. So i make me a senti just for fun and cuzz im bored ingame
Have u even tryed that way? Try use companions to tank orcus, while TR, HR and lets say other gwf would deal dmg..
I tryed that way. Mostly it ended fail.
If you have 2 decent range Dps Classes, CW, SW lets say even Archer focused HR. Then u can use companions to tank while party from range deal dmg..
And in this case actually you don't need tank type companions. Enough any offensive companion which can hit orcus. Mid/close range, tank, striker, CC whatever.
Companions just provide buffer zone which protect party.. Orcus hit nearest target. And companions recover from death fast.
I know these tricks for long time..
And I can assure, tanking allone with Lion/yeti will not give u proper tanking, and non of melee classes will be able deal decent dmg toward orcus..
Only with one thing I can agree, GWF will never be tank as GF, because GWF primary role is striker, and due feats u can make him is offtank,
While GF primary role tank, and via feats/paragon paths u boost up dmg. And if GF focus on full tanking build, it will beat GWF in term of tanking without questions.
That your post put u in interesting position.
U claim that GWF have poor survivability, low tanking capabilities. Yet u haven't play as sentinel for over 4 mods.
And funny is that, Destro is not offtank, Senti is offtank.
So, have u ever though that your build need optimization?? OR u just complain because game is not adjusted to your build..
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
Same goes for damnation tree, which gameplay is around soul puppet. They also now should complain that they do not deal same amount dmg as fury.
One of biggest nonsense. And if that happens, means u doing lot of things wrongly, and your GWF build is set up wrongly.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
Have i tryed it? Nop. I did it. Trying is for pussies. Dont try, do it.
If you use a Tank comp there are some things you have to know ( you know...nearest hit etc...). Maybe you made some mistakes when you tryed, cuzz you dont know theese things?
You are really unbelievable. You write like "I know everything...theese are FACTS...you know nothing...l2p" but in fact i dont think you ever played any class to max and tried everything its possible. So can we get BTT? This is my last post to you cuzz i wanna talk about balance (TOPIC)! And just let you know:
Nerf is NOT balance. Think about it.
The big question for @bloodyspamer is have YOU played a Sentinel GWF at 3k+ within the last couple of mods? If the answer is (as I suspect) no then you are in no position to berate someone else on the point.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
When ? 3 month ago, Destro, and also had chance to play with sentinel build.
Obviously you will ask for pictures, videos and so one. Well I don;t have them within my laptop. And personally I don't think I had to prove u anything.. Because even if Would provide screenshots, videos even fight logs. U would still try imply that I don't know how bad GWF is.
So more less, I can say, I played with GWF, both destro and senti builds. And I don't give a cra* if u think. And now cool part.
I asked players from friendlist, within alliance and even casual players if they have 4k GS. Do GWF sucks in top end dungeons and what need to be done to make it viable.
And over 20 players(GWF) laugh.
yet u here, person who claims that GWF is so bad that even SW can tank better.
The fact SW can tank. but thats mean u give up dmg dealing. Giving up offensive boons, also gear must be focused for this purpose.
@clonkyo1, your GWF sentinel had 10k def, Which is punny. I have met DC's who run around river disctrict with over 20k def.
Does that make that DC overtank?
IF you guys expect that based on class provided feat/features u can tank then u are wrong. They just augment/extend some game part/mechanics.
If u want tank, you had to compile gear/boon/feats/mounts/companions/insignias for that purpose.
And thats what I mean when I wrote that offtank give up dmg in exchange for tanking.
Some GWF's which I knew, had over 20k def, 5k deflect, 5k life steal. Now add sentinel feats/features. And u have offtank,
If u think that u get 15k def, about 3k life steal, and by adding sentinels feats make your GWF tanky, then obviously u guys are wrong.
I have templock HB. I have over 12k def, about 6k life steal.
Now add Pillar of Power provided DR buff, aura of despair 5% dmg recution, darkness 10% dmg reduction when enemies got affected by Bova which give u 20% deflect chance. , Hellish condemnation 5%+ dmg reduction toward enemies.. Also PoP have debuff effect too.
Add my Hp restoring due DoT triggering life steal.
And with that, I still don't consider my templock offtank.
I do not expect that glasscanon way geared character would be able tank.
AS for GF and gwf..
Well GF is tanker yes. So even if player set up for max dps, this GF still contain mechanics ment to tank.
IT's like DC, even if u build up for dps, or buffing. Your DC still have healing power, still do have >divine empowerment< which extend dmg but also let u apply healing spells more rapid.
So same is with GF, players even with full dps build, still have tanking abilities within class. So due that they have less think about defensive stats.
As for GWF, this class, well once u created, getting high dmg capabilities. Now u can accumulate lot of dmg, yet u need survivability. So u need leverage for it. But remember, one thing, you are not ment be offtank. GWF is melee class, so it have defensive stats not tank bosses, not act as tank within dungeon runs.
But to have decent for own survivability in close range fights while runing game contents.
THats mean top end dungeons, GWF stay behind tank. <
As sentinel, < sentinel extend survivability and give ability to tank to some degree. And in non of my known MMORPG games, offtank replaced actual tank in top end dungeons/fights.. .
Because full tank = dedicated tank which focus on tanking, and dps is least thing he do.
Now this is action mmorpg, so if u get safe time frame, u can hit enemies.. And thats what GF players do.
THey block hits with their tanking abilities which they gain with class creation. And when get chance hit enemies hard.
As example I can suggest u guys visit Vindictus mmprpg game. There u hit when u have chance. Boss try hit you, you avoid hit and hit him back >hard.
And now best part< this is Action mmorpg, and if your gameplay is based on eating incoming hits. Then obviously u will faill.
From what I so, players during mSvardborg, they got used to DC"s AA so don;t bother to dodge at all. Players got addicted to gameplay where they are behind wall of buffs and bosses/enemies are debuffed. So dodging hits is kinda least important thing..
Now some GWF are famous not due gear, due gameplay. Some did stuffs which other didn't. Why? Not because they had better gear, but because they did things in right time. In action mmorpg games, gameplay is big matter.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
Alright..
Now what are feats within each class? What are they ment for?
They extend some of your powers/capabilities..
SW furry = extend dps.
SW damnation = extend gameplay around soul puppet.
SW temptation = extend survivability + add ability support parties.
GWF striker.
Sentinel extend your survivability.
Destroyer extend your dmg.
Now. from very start you create GF you get mechanics/powers ment to tank.
So GF players when building full offensive character still have tanking mechanics. It's like DC, even if u make full dps/buff build, you still have healing powers.
So GF players did what its kinda common within mmorpg games.. They build dmg focused set up, and survivability leave for their tanking mechanics/powers.
As example within lineage 2 are 4 tank classes. each have own unique powers. Some have similar..
One among them is Shilen knight. He use magic, to deal dmg. But since he is not mage/spellcaster it's seems make him non viable within fight.. Wrong<<< I picked mage gear, put on tank, and in fight I was beast.
I focused on full dmg, yet had tank class powers to extend my defensive stats or negate dmg.
In other game I also had offensive tank set up. So it;s not like this would be something new..
Also need to remind this is action mmorpg game. If u dodge incoming hit, and u have opening to land hit, you do it. So GF players doing it. They blocking danger hits, and when have opening lad most powerfull hits.
Now with GWF is kinda tricky..
From moment you create character, non feated u already have more dmg than other melee type classes. Now GWF desing in general is same which use lot of mmorpg games.. You will always will find class similar to NWO GWF.
And their attributes are same:
Caring heavy weapon, either axe, sword or hammer.
Have higher than average Defensive stats
Have higher than average HP pool.
And most commonly they called offtank due HP pool and higher defensive stats
Now these classes are not tanks. Even lot of guys within many mmorpg games tend to claim that.
GWF/destroyers/warriors and other named classes, with these attributes are just melee dmg dealers. And their defensive stats and HP pool are higher just to make sure that player with this class could go face2face fight during game content runs.
Now on non of my known, played/tested games these even called offtanks fully replaced actual tanks in top end dungeons/boss fights.. They have higher stats than others, but in top end content, they let actual tank hold agro, <
In neverwitner, we all have 3 possible tress within each class. to extend certain stats/capabilities.
Now Sentinel boost up GWF"s survivability and also add agrro/threat generating capabilities. Which make GWF offtank,
Now whats matter in this situation. If u want truly offtank, you need give up offensive stats..
thats mean you need compile four gwf's gear/mounts/companions/insignias/boons toward tanking. Thats mean u giving up offensive to extend defensive stats, which make classes tanky.
IF u have with GWF ~10k def, 2k Life steal, Then it's no chance that he would be able tank CN. Even sentinel have enchanted survivability, it's no chance..
Also sentinel itself is just help party run game content, not replace actual tank.
So as u can see, u want tanking, u give up offensive stats, yet u still keeping offensive powers, dmg dealing ment mchanics.
IF happens(it will) u still don't get. Then visit some other mmorpg games.. And u will notice that there are GWF like class and u will notice their role within group and how they do stuffs.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
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I was talking in general, 10k even 14k defence for tanking is nonsense. And as I wrote before, that is what means give up offensive stats in favor to defensive ones.. Players when go offtank, they give up offensive stats, Artifacts, gear, rings, amulet and belt are ment to get you defence, deflect, Armor class and life steal. Also regeneration.
Mounts + insignias also set up for this purpose. Companions also ment to boost up your tanking.
Also boons either campaign or Stronghold are picked to increase defensive values.
So far players pick GWF sent, and increase his defensive stats just little bit, and hope that outcome will be big. When GWF fail to replace GF or OP in tanking, these players write> Sentinel is not viable<.
It's like u put 20% efforts in tanking, and want 80% results. Thats mean, get some minimal defensive stats, and hope that feats allone will make GWF tank.
And yes, GF is better at tanking even than sentinel GWF.
Because as I wrote, sentinel is not ment to replace actual tank.
This tree enchant GWF survivability.
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Edit: i were wrong. I have 14k on defense on that Sent char. My mistake here, sorry. BTW, 4.3k on LS stat if you're interested on it. But, again, i got some fresh ideas recently... if you send me the RP, the reagents and the Wards to try it, i will more than happy to try it out the build i have in mind. Also, would be better if you send me some AD to buy companions, rise them up to legend, buy them gear and so on.
You suggestion sounds as I would had to create new GWF and gear up him...
Well I wouldn't do that. my HB templock is my last character within neverwinter.. I have 0 intention to create new character, and play same game content. For me where enough to have shared account with close friend. I helped to lv up, both we geared up DC, HR, GWF<, GF. My friend moved to OP and I decided focus on my warlock..
So there is not so much new things to do within neverwinter.
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I have been playing GWF for years. I know what the class is. it is a Striker off-tank. Your insults and linguistic gymnastics will not change that. If you have a problem with it, take that up with the devs who designed the class, instead of me.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
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